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Metalanguage in the classroom:Good or Bad (redirected from Metalanguage)

Page history last edited by sue annan 6 years, 3 months ago
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Marisa_C 2015-06-10T10:13:31 You voted for this topic "How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " See you in 45' #ELTchat
Collaborative 2015-06-10T10:16:09 #eltchat > Facebook: Immersive Worlds & Education ICT http://t.co/OpIznvV1L0
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T10:16:27 RT @Marisa_C: You voted for this topic "How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " See you in …
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T10:17:19 @Marisa_C I'm definitely going to try. Got a deadline I'm working on but I can take a 60min break for #eltchat. Right?
oyajimbo 2015-06-10T10:18:24 RT @Marisa_C: You voted for this topic "How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " See you in …
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T10:18:46 @kaurgibbons RIGHT! "Take 60 minutes for  #ELTchat" sounds like a good slogan to me :-)
ELTchat 2015-06-10T10:19:06 RT @Marisa_C: @kaurgibbons RIGHT! "Take 60 minutes for  #ELTchat" sounds like a good slogan to me :-)
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T10:19:19 RT @Marisa_C: You voted for this topic "How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " See you in …
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T10:20:04 @daylemajor we use a wiki http://t.co/QEYYpnEb0v but u can save on xcell or storify #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T10:20:32 @juliacphang :-( u will be missed too #ELTchat
newbiehelpdesk 2015-06-10T10:21:51 RT @Collaborative: #eltchat > Facebook: Immersive Worlds & Education ICT http://t.co/OpIznvV1L0
theminddock 2015-06-10T10:22:24 RT @Collaborative: #eltchat > Facebook: Immersive Worlds & Education ICT http://t.co/OpIznvV1L0
daylemajor 2015-06-10T10:33:59 @Marisa_C Thank you. #KELTChat has been using Storify. I'm quite impressed by the #ELTChat wiki.
TeachEngIndia 2015-06-10T10:39:39 RT @nadmad4u: RMSA-BC #ELISS #Mentoring Skills Course underway at Pune. Awesome!@inBritish @TeachEngIndia #ELTchat #ESL #CPD http://t.co/P…
TwitLiveEvents 2015-06-10T10:45:05 June 10, 2015 at 07:00AM Twitter Chat - #eltchat #TwitterChat Visit http://t.co/52cTeoQ3Zw for more events.
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:00:25 @Marisa_C I'll be there but about 12.05pm #eltchat about using terminology or not.
thebooksweluv 2015-06-10T11:02:14 RT @TwitLiveEvents: June 10, 2015 at 07:00AM Twitter Chat - #eltchat #TwitterChat Visit http://t.co/52cTeoQ3Zw for more events.
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:02:38 Hello #eltchat friends anyone there? @SueAnnan chose this topic on metalanguage
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:03:06 @Marisa_C @SueAnnan Bonjour #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:03:12 How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " #ELTchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:03:19 #eltchat Hi @Marisa_C I will try to keep up with the chat but may have to bow out a little early because of work. We'll see. Fingers crossed
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:03:22 RT @Marisa_C: How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " #ELTchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:03:57 #eltchat hi! Sorry havent bn around for a while .. but good to be here! #metalanguage
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:04:17 RT @Marisa_C: How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed? " #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:04:33 @Marisa_C Would think so much depends on context #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:04:41 Will be with u all in 5' telephone man here #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:05:00 @patrickelt @Marisa_C That’s the answer to everything in let I think :-) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:05:40 @patrickelt @Marisa_C elt not let damn autocorrect #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:06:05 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Yes - perhaps especially here #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:06:35 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C metalang not really appropriate for early years #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:06:42 @patrickelt @Marisa_C So what contexts would you it? #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:06:44 Reminder topic: "How much metalanguage (terminology about language) do you use and how much is needed?"  #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:06:59 @patrickelt @Marisa_C In what context would none be appropriate then? Very young learners? Others? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:07:01 @rapple18 and whats your answer? #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:07:31 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Perhaps older learners - can be useful when sts use dictionaries etc to understand resource books #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:07:38 @TheRedFellow @patrickelt @Marisa_C Is all terminology there metalanguage? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:07:44 @Marisa_C @SueAnnan @Shaunwilden  Hi! I'm here.  I think it's a really interesting topic and interested to share ideas. #eltchat #metalang
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:08:20 hi! @Shaunwilden #eltchat Not overcomplicate at any level, but ensure sts have lang. to talk abt lang. Writing a C1 TB right now, so  ...!
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:08:35 @kaurgibbons @Marisa_C @SueAnnan So whats your take on the use of metalanguage then Pam? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:08:44 RT @rapple18: hi! @Shaunwilden #eltchat Not overcomplicate at any level, but ensure sts have lang. to talk abt lang. Writing a C1 TB right …
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:08:54 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C Perhaps with some learners for whom it is a barrier.  As a learner, I find it too abstract often #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:09:10 @Shaunwilden  #eltchat your answer?
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:09:25 @rapple18 so C1 gives you carte blanche? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:09:29 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @SueAnnan Often I think it needs to be used. Irrespective of age. Shows Ss we know what we're talking about #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:10:08 @rapple18 I think if it needs to be used it needs to be used, avoiding it can lead to overcomplicating and misunderstanding #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:10:17 RT @Shaunwilden: @rapple18 I think if it needs to be used it needs to be used, avoiding it can lead to overcomplicating and misunderstandin…
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:10:32 @patrickelt @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C #eltchat think it is best used with CF less in presentation etc
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:10:41 #eltchat e.g. what do you call "do" and "so" at C1 level in "I think so" or "Yes, I do [get up at 7am on Fridays]" ?
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:10:54 @Shaunwilden @patrickelt @Marisa_C I don't know. I taught my 2nd graders what verbs and adjectives were? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:10:54 @Shaunwilden @rapple18 Absolutely agree. Not using metalang tends to be more confusing #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:11:22 #eltchat @Shaunwilden in what sense? To use any/all/lots of metaL? NO! Far from it!
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:11:33 Sorry all - sth urgent up #eltchat may have lost the thread
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:12:07 @Marisa_C Its by the needle over there #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:12:41 @patrickelt @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Except with trainee teacher, used only very basic terms: noun, adjective, verb, preposition #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:12:47 but .. @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden #eltchat it's a bit like using phon symbols: great if sts have learnt them bit by bit up the levels...
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:13:00 Re Young and very young learners - do they need to know VERB  or NOUN or Past perfect continuous as terms? #eltchat
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:13:12 RT @rapple18: but .. @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden #eltchat it's a bit like using phon symbols: great if sts have learnt them bit by bit up the…
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:13:39 @rapple18 @Shaunwilden They don't need to know it ALL to make it a useful part of their learning journey #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:15:05 @Marisa_C term yes to the first two :-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:15:17 With older learners I think it is unavoidable  - CBs use it websites use them so pretending they dont exist ? #eltchat
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:15:32 RT @Marisa_C: With older learners I think it is unavoidable  - CBs use it websites use them so pretending they dont exist ? #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:15:48 #eltchat so we're all agreed then (?!)
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:15:53 @Marisa_C verb and noun and adjective, YES! past/present/future, YES! #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:16:15 @Shaunwilden First two as in verb and noun - i would add adjective too myself :-) #eltchat but not sure it does anything (this knowledge)
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:16:48 #eltchat @Marisa_C Some knew the terms some didn't. I used to ban all but simplest as "naughty words" to keep people on an equal footing.
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:16:54 #eltchat  https://t.co/2opKSFKXFI
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:17:00 Thanks @NewbieCELTA It doesn't have to be a crash course. As and when. #eltchat  https://t.co/eFjKBWBjbG
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:17:15 #eltchat @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden helps them become savvy about their learning .. but perhaps not great for all st types...?
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:17:29 @rapple18 @Marisa_C Why not? #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:17:43 Afternoon all :) #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:18:18 @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden  but isn't that part of our job? Help them become better learners? Having metaL does that I think #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:18:22 @Shaunwilden @rapple18 I don't think young learners can categorize language in this way  not in their cognitive make up #eltchat -
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:18:40 RT @kaurgibbons: @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden  but isn't that part of our job? Help them become better learners? Having metaL does that…
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:18:46 Abstract thought/terms after age of 11 or 12 #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:18:56 @Marisa_C @rapple18 depends on the age i think #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:19:18 #eltchat @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Am thinking of learners who want lang / functions 4survival. Learning terms puts extra weight on vocab load.
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:20:31 #eltchat learning another language requires one to think about why we say what we say when we say it, ie another level of thinking....
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:20:34 @kaurgibbons @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden I learned how to speak Thai but I don't know any metalanguage in Thai.  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:20:54 I believe tha YLs and metalanguage is a whole different #ELTchat - how u can talk abt lang to them
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:20:56 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C Past, Present sometimes. Future never. In "my" model of grammar no Future Tense #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:21:10 #eltchat .....so if we have this level if meta thinking, surely we need meta language to describe it?
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:21:28 @rapple18 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C  ESOL learners/migrants with little or no formal education in L1 do not need metalanguage. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:21:34 @TheRedFellow @kaurgibbons @rapple18 @Marisa_C What none at all? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:21:47 @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden I'm thinking of exam/EAP/Business/ESP students who also need to write and read #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:22:10 #ELTchat @Marisa_C oooh dont think i'd go there with YLs! ouch! (but again, some might rise to challenge!)
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:22:12 #eltchat of course, learning and acquiring a language are very different things - prob no need for metalamguage in the latter :)
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:22:19 @pjgallantry this could be true Paul if we actually knew if conscious & explicit knowledge of terms helps in lang acquitision #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:22:54 @Shaunwilden @kaurgibbons @rapple18 @Marisa_C Yes. Hmmm, actually I know the word for verb and adjective. That's it. #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:23:02 @Marisa_C #eltchat didn't/wouldn't use much b4 that age, but then yes & again 'baked into' meaningful analysis work, not prez nor tested
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:23:02 @kaurgibbons @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Shaunwilden I think young adults and adults is what we should be talking about re our topic #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:23:05 @rapple18 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C I agree with you, Rachel about vocab load. Also prob of diff grammar models. #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:24:07 @Marisa_C @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Most definitely. WHY are they learning English is also key when thinking abt metaL #eltchat
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:24:23 RT @kaurgibbons: @Marisa_C @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Most definitely. WHY are they learning English is also key when thinking ab…
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:24:26 "grammar models" #eltchat @GlenysHanson @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C what do you mean here exactly?
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:25:17 @ETprofessional @taw_sig gotcha, just being honest abt my sometime www habits. Mostly just now I'm chuffed 2have an #eltchat AM commute! :)
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:25:49 @kaurgibbons @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Can read or write with metalang but harder to talk about it #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:26:18 @NewbieCELTA @ETprofessional @taw_sig good to see u after a long while Matthew #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:26:21 #eltchat So cld any1 advise on this: e.g. what do U call "do" & "so" at C1 in "I think so" or "Yes, I do [get up at 7am on Fridays]" ?
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:26:26 #eltchat from own experience, I only learned metalanguage of English when I did my CELTA! No need for it beforehand....
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:26:35 @rapple18 @GlenysHanson @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C For example, SFL makes use of terms like agent and goal #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:27:17 I think in most adult Cbs now some LA work where metalang inevitable - Ss need it to work out meaning, form, use, function, tenor #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:27:31 @kaurgibbons @TheRedFellow @rapple18 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden #eltchat If it's required by an exam, that's different. Doesn't prove it aids LL
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:27:56 @patrickelt I hate the term 'agent' with a passion #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:28:03 #eltchat @patrickelt @GlenysHanson @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C (ooh confusing,.. sounds more like ref to Cristiano Ronaldo!)
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:28:38 I'm not so sure @GlenysHanson. I have students who want the metaL. Their brains work that way so why should I avoid it? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:28:42 @Marisa_C But would you use words like tenor with them? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:29:02 @Shaunwilden no I wouldn't #eltchat
malachyscullion 2015-06-10T11:29:37 @Marisa_C #eltchat I usually colour code words on the whiteboard when referring to different parts of speech.
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:29:45 @rapple18 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C How many tenses are there in English? Different models give different answers. #eltchat
malachyscullion 2015-06-10T11:29:51 RT @Marisa_C: I believe tha YLs and metalanguage is a whole different #ELTchat - how u can talk abt lang to them
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:30:04 @Shaunwilden but I WOULD and HAVE used discourse terms like 'turntaking' rules, tonic stress, given vs new info and pronunction #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:30:18 This is probably why I am open to using metaL. Never thought of it in this way before! Thanks Paul. #eltchat  https://t.co/sG5jxi7fKX
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:30:20 @GlenysHanson Three #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:30:34 @GlenysHanson @rapple18 @Marisa_C two #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-06-10T11:30:37 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Me too. #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:30:41 #eltchat I tend to feel that metalanguage, like death, taxes and Headway course books, is unavoidable.
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:31:18 @Shaunwilden correct TWO yes sorry lol #eltchat morphologically speaking TWO
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:31:36 @kaurgibbons #eltchat If everyone in the class agrees it's fine. Not my experience in heterogeneous classes.
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:31:37 For pron I think it is invaluable to use metaL. Def when Ss realise pron isn't just about tongue twisters! #eltchat  https://t.co/QMdJ2C8AP3
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:31:47 #eltchat sorry, repeat tweet there.
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:31:51 @kaurgibbons @GlenysHanson Depends on a students explicit grammar knowledge of1st lang. If it's good, they want to know in Eng #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:32:49 Hi Clare - don't think so - take part in the chat but use this in your tweets #eltchat  https://t.co/JbLHE7KJar
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:33:00 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C oops previous post no hashtag #eltchat I'm rusty!!! :P
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:33:15 @NewbieCELTA @Marisa_C I dont think i have used the word tenor with sts in that sense #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:33:19 #eltchat  https://t.co/rRaCz2vuUG
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:33:37 @GlenysHanson Then isn't it about creating a balance? 1/2 #eltchat #metaL
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:33:57 @GlenysHanson  Irrespective of all agreeing it's only fair to include for those who do want it. 2/2 #eltchat #metalanguage
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:34:04 @Shaunwilden well u can use other words - this is a technical term i am using with colleagues here - :-( #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:34:13 @kaurgibbons #eltchat Nobody is born with a brain that knows metaL. Some already Ss know it and use it as a tool. That's fine.
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:34:21 RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat  https://t.co/rRaCz2vuUG
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:34:47 @Marisa_C yeahI know I was talking to Mathew not you :-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:35:09 Some knowledge of metalang useful as a prompt in error correction - on the spot or delayed #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:35:28 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C me neither actually, but now I might! #eltchat 'stress' for eg is fun, also 'perfect' (oh, it's not!), etc.
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:35:39 @Shaunwilden :-D u're saved then #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:35:43 @GlenysHanson Absolutely. So I use it  if and when students are keen to use it. Irrespective of those who don't. #eltchat
EnglishMyWayUK 2015-06-10T11:35:44 RT @GemL1: Positive peer observations > using peer obs to reflect on my own teaching http://t.co/iXd92I0Xj3 #EAP #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:36:06 back in a mo #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:36:13 @GlenysHanson Often this becomes a learning exchange between students in my experience #eltchat #richcontent
SmallwoodELT 2015-06-10T11:37:13 @Marisa_C I think at that age they can see # parts of speech as 'building blocks' and see basic patterns but I wouldn't go further #ELTchat
clerotto 2015-06-10T11:37:50 @Marisa_Cs. Our kids schooling in Italy, meta language in Italian grammar from age 6 so were frustrated on return to UK in # MFL #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:37:51 @NewbieCELTA @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Definitely agree metaL is #richcontent. Often between students sharing knowledge #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:38:34 @kaurgibbons #eltchat #metalanguage My problem was one of time. In a short course I had to do what was essential - had to cut some things
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:38:51 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat Ss helped by sep. tense & aspect, I do that often. Not just metaL, it's teaching Lang system: req. terms!
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:39:05 @clerotto @Marisa_Cs hahaha, in the UK, it's an action word. it's a describing word. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:39:51 @TheRedFellow @clerotto @Marisa_Cs I know but football is an action word too u know? can confuse #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:39:58 @GlenysHanson That's true and understandable. Your website's grammar section is divided by #metalanguage. Interesting! #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:40:42 @SmallwoodELT I think YL's learn chunks and cannot see the parts #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:41:29 @Marisa_C @clerotto @Marisa_Cs Agreed. UK's inability/reluctance to use grammatical terms in schools is a disaster, in my opinion. #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:41:42 RT @TheRedFellow: @Marisa_C @clerotto @Marisa_Cs Agreed. UK's inability/reluctance to use grammatical terms in schools is a disaster, in my…
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:41:48 @kaurgibbons #eltchat As long as no one feels excluded cause they don't know the vocab.
malachyscullion 2015-06-10T11:41:57 @Marisa_C #ELTchat I'm open to any good suggestions - how can I use meta language in my classes of 3, 4, 5 and 6 year old Chinese students?
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:42:19 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @clerotto @Marisa_Cs Don’t they use them now? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:42:40 @GlenysHanson Of course. I use it as a learning exchange moment. Or group students who want metaL and then they share findings #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:43:36 @malachyscullion you shouldn't really #eltchat - it's abstract and beyong their congnitive abilities to grasp #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:43:47 @Shaunwilden @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @clerotto @Marisa_Cs It's moving towards it but the teachers don't know it yet! #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:44:06 @kaurgibbons #eltchat Got me there, Pam! But my site is aimed at teachers looking for exos rather than students directly.
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:44:08 RT @Marisa_C: @malachyscullion you shouldn't really #eltchat - it's abstract and beyong their congnitive abilities to grasp #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:44:22 @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat sum metaL Ss learn/know isn't always rich kindest kind for learning it's inert/about kind
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:44:59 @Shaunwilden  TBH, I don't know. My friend's kids still speak about action words and describing words not verbs and adjectives. #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:45:01 @GlenysHanson Fair enough. It's a very interesting area. In the Silent Way it's def not nec, right? #eltchat #metalanguage
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:45:40 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat if we can make metaL 'come alive' and treat it richly, it loses its 'boring/serious' rep and is..activated!!
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:46:14 @NewbieCELTA @Shaunwilden I call that wishful thinking :-) #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:46:24 #eltchat new thought: if we consider language as experiential, there is no need for metalanguage: if we consider it as a subject, we do.....
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:46:39 @TheRedFellow No i dont know for sure but suspect it is better than it was in this respect #eltchat
clerotto 2015-06-10T11:46:49 @Shaunwilden @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @marisa_cs GCSE no metalang. Daughter did 3 A level langs, some use but UK kids moaned #habit #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:46:50 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden yes! #perfectresponse #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:46:51 @kaurgibbons #eltchat As for the Silent Way, metaL can be useful in some classes not in others for the reasons we're discussing here.
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:46:58 that's a good thought and one i would go along with #eltchat  https://t.co/WBkUg3DkCy
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:47:07 @NewbieCELTA @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C That's the key I think. #metalanguage needs to be made engaging at times - depends on Ss too #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:47:10 RT @Marisa_C: that's a good thought and one i would go along with #eltchat  https://t.co/WBkUg3DkCy
clerotto 2015-06-10T11:47:33 RT @TheRedFellow: @Marisa_C @clerotto @Marisa_Cs Agreed. UK's inability/reluctance to use grammatical terms in schools is a disaster, in my…
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:47:34 #eltchat...e.g., we experience our environment without needing to describe it, but if we study it in class, we need metalang to guide us..
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:47:41 RT @Marisa_C: that's a good thought and one i would go along with #eltchat  https://t.co/WBkUg3DkCy
malachyscullion 2015-06-10T11:48:08 @Marisa_C #ELTchat I was thinking along those lines myself but wondering if anyone out there had any. So ideally what CEFR is suitable?
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:49:09 @pjgallantry Absolutely. And in my context for the Ss it is often a subject that will become experiential. #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:49:31 @pjgallantry can't agree w. dichotomy: lang abt language is too 'exp. language' no? & quite close 2present experience if studying! #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:49:32 RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat...e.g., we experience our environment without needing to describe it, but if we study it in class, we need metala…
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:49:39 #eltchat @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Shouldn't it depend on the students' level of general education? Less educated, less metalanguage? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:49:54 Sorry if harsh - I think Ss' knowledge of metalanguage has nothing to do with productive use esp speech - writing yes - more time #eltchat
clerotto 2015-06-10T11:49:56 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @marisa_cs But they use metalang in Classics of course but uptake Latin dropping. Why the reluctance Aidan?#eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:49:58 #eltchat so basically, we're talking about using metalang AT sts' level (none of this i+1) ... - to describe what they can already use... ?
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:50:00 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C Why? #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:50:02 #eltchat so, can we say: experienced language doesn't need describing, while language studied abstractly does?
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:50:28 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Really? Why does 'less educated' matter here? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:50:34 @Shaunwilden @TheRedFellow less literate Ss more difficulty understanding abstractions #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:51:23 @pjgallantry hmm might have to get back to you on  that, my first thought is no but i doing know why #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:51:29 @rapple18 That's often the case. Helping them grasp the usage through metaL #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:51:36 @clerotto @Marisa_C @marisa_cs Don't know. UK seems to think that forcing Ss to explicitly learn grammar infringes on creativity.. #eltchat
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:52:02 @Marisa_C @pgallantry #eltchat Thanks for the metaL: "experiential".  (I'm experimenting with emoji - hope it means ;-))
PearsonELTweets 2015-06-10T11:52:24 What's it like to #teachenglish in North Korea? http://t.co/rWYFh9RxYP #education #eltchat #elt #teachers
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:52:49 I had to learn and practice grammar like 10 hrs a week and it did nothing to me being able to speak classical greek #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:52:49 #eltchat @kaurgibbons and concept Qs and time lines attempt to clarify meaning w/o metalang. So perhaps it's a case of not o'complicating ..
pjgallantry 2015-06-10T11:53:02 @GlenysHanson @Marisa_C #eltchat you're welcome :-D
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:53:39 @Marisa_C @TheRedFellow I would disagree. Illiteracy does not equate to a lack of critical/abstract thinking abilities. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:53:50 @Marisa_C Did @PearsonELTweets just troll #eltchat, why cant people wait until the chat is over!
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:54:06 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C if S is educated, probably has system of dealing with lang.analysis in L1.If not,then new concept+vocab #eltchat
rapple18 2015-06-10T11:54:07 #eltchat Really? @TheRedFellow @clerotto @Marisa_C @marisa_cs I dont think those are the issues at stake.. it's not 1 or other
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:54:54 @rapple18 I'm not so sure. For those who do like metaL it's best. They can then use this as a learning exchange with peers #eltchat 1/2
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:55:16 @kaurgibbons @Marisa_C no but it does equate to lack of concepts to analyse language. #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:55:41 @rapple18 Don't get me wrong, I don't use it ALL the time. Only, if my Ss are open to it and it provides #richcontent #eltchat #metaL 2/2
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T11:56:21 @kaurgibbons @Marisa_C I think you will find that survival ESOL classes for migrants in UK avoid metalang at all costs. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:56:36 @PearsonELTweets pls don't tweet duing our chats!!!! #ELTchat not welcome!
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:56:58 We’re approaching the end of the hour, does anyone want to write the summary? #eltchat
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:57:35 @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C Fair enough. My mum did these lessons when I was a teen and we would use some metaL at home to consolidate #eltchat
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T11:57:47 @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat why is Lang abt Lang considered 'not Lang?' As metacognition goes, so goes (some) metaL IMHO
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T11:57:49 I shall have to go now - thank you all for a great #ELTchat - we may not have agreed on everything but it made us THINK!!!!!
ELTchat 2015-06-10T11:58:01 RT @Marisa_C: I shall have to go now - thank you all for a great #ELTchat - we may not have agreed on everything but it made us THINK!!!!!
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:58:25 That's the point, right? #eltchat gets you thinking! https://t.co/waCYLPEbaO
GlenysHanson 2015-06-10T11:58:28 @TheRedFellow @kaurgibbons @Marisa_C #eltchat Not necessarily. Just don't have the standard vocab but may express concepts in other ways
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:58:52 RT @NewbieCELTA: @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat why is Lang abt Lang considered 'not Lang?' As metacognition goes, so goes (s…
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:59:11 RT @NewbieCELTA: @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat why is Lang abt Lang considered 'not Lang?' As metacognition goes, so goes (s…
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T11:59:17 @Shaunwilden If I could get some advice on how, I would be happy to? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:59:29 final thoughts and conclusions? #eltchat
clerotto 2015-06-10T11:59:35 @kaurgibbons @Shaunwilden @TheRedFellow @Marisa_C @marisa_cs How will it be introduced? From what age? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T11:59:53 @kaurgibbons Great, one the mods will tweet you once we have the transcript #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-06-10T12:00:17 @kaurgibbons Indeed!!!! :-) #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-06-10T12:00:42 Missed all of this. Just come out of a meeting. Will do transcript #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-06-10T12:01:07 Thank you all for joining this week’s #eltchat next week its the evening slot , see you then.
rapple18 2015-06-10T12:01:33 #eltchat Thanks all - good food4thought :)
NewbieCELTA 2015-06-10T12:01:44 #eltchat boston courthouse on walk to work w. #ELTchat metaL: what's yr verdict!? #ambulatoryELT #watchout4lamppost http://t.co/CvZzPIsYxB
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T12:01:50 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden  Up to you if you would like @SueAnnan  or me to do the transcript. I'd like to try #eltchat  https://t.co/Cku0eZcxqW
SueAnnan 2015-06-10T12:02:19 Who wants transcript? #eltchat
clerotto 2015-06-10T12:02:31 @Shaunwilden Could you organise a chat to discuss ways to introduce metalang? e.g. with cuisinaire rods? #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T12:02:43 #eltchat Thanks everybody for another thought-provoking chat.
kaurgibbons 2015-06-10T12:02:46 @SueAnnan Moi. Pretty please :) Thanks! #eltchat
TheRedFellow 2015-06-10T12:05:15 @GlenysHanson @kaurgibbons @Marisa_C perhaps. In my experience, if the learner has used metalang. in L1,then easier to do so in L2. #eltchat

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