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Experimenting with alternative practices,approaches, methods-how to evaluate

Page history last edited by sue annan 9 years, 2 months ago
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NikPeachey 2015-03-25T11:33:01 RT @Shaunwilden: Experimenting with alternative practices/approaches/methods ; how to go about it & how to see if the idea worked!" #ELTcha…
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T11:39:27 I'll be using @Nurph for today's #ELTchat. Join us! Topic: How to experiment with alternative practices/approaches/methods #ELTchat
Ashowski 2015-03-25T11:44:32 @Marisa_C I've got an extraordinary meetings at immigration this morning and can't attend #ELTChat but if no one offers to write summary 1/2
Ashowski 2015-03-25T11:45:00 @Marisa_C then let me know, as it would force me to read through transcript and get to know the #ELTChat anyway :-) 2/2
TwitLiveEvents 2015-03-25T11:45:05 March 25, 2015 at 08:00AM Twitter Chat - #eltchat #TwitterChat Visit http://t.co/52cTeoQ3Zw for more events.
ELTchat 2015-03-25T11:48:31 Experimenting with alternative practices/approaches/methods ; how to go about it & how to see if the idea worked!  in 10! #ELTchat
ELTchat 2015-03-25T11:49:35 Enter the nourish channel http://t.co/2URUvAerZI  #ELTchat
thebooksweluv 2015-03-25T11:50:34 RT @TwitLiveEvents: March 25, 2015 at 08:00AM Twitter Chat - #eltchat #TwitterChat Visit http://t.co/52cTeoQ3Zw for more events.
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T11:50:42 RT @ELTchat Enter the nourish channel http://t.co/3lKmmVP1Ep  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:51:05 @Ashowski Thanks Anthony - you did do your experimental practice assignment on the Delta so have an idea about the topic :-)  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:51:25 @angelos_bollas @ELTchat that self correct drives me nuts  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T11:52:01 @Marisa_C @ELTchat same here! #ELTchat
Ashowski 2015-03-25T11:53:03 @Marisa_C I certainly did ^_^ #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:55:56 @Ashowski @angelos_bollas What did you experiment on for your assignment?    #ELTchat
Ashowski 2015-03-25T11:56:17 @Marisa_C Cuisenaire rods for generating lexis and ideas #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:56:39 Hi @verapischina  good to see you frequenting these parts :-)  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T11:56:43 @Marisa_C Dogme! #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:57:39 @jublikrang2 welcome! :-)  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:58:28 Experimenting with alternative practices/approaches/methods ; how to go about it & how to see if the idea worked - beginning now  #ELTchat
verapischina 2015-03-25T11:58:33 Hello! @angelos_bollas Thanks for letting us know about Nurph on FB. It seems so much easier to follow the discussion here :) #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T11:58:38 Monring all.  Long time no #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T11:59:10 @teflgeek Bloody hell you still exist ;-) #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T11:59:13 @verapischina I hope you enjoy it! Good to see you here! #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T11:59:56 Welcome all - Clare/ @languageeteach who asked the question is not here as she is teaching but will try to lurk :-)  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:00:12 @Shaunwilden I try and pop into this universe every now and again... #eltchat
jublikrang2 2015-03-25T12:00:44 @Marisa_C Hi all, I am new to this one  #new2elt  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:00:47 @teflgeek Hey that was a warm welcome from your friendly moderator!!!! :-) @Shaunwilden  #ELTchat
textivate 2015-03-25T12:00:51 The #eltchat topic this week sounds interesting#langchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:01:07 @teflgeek Nice to see you, looking forward to seeing u in person in a couple of weeks in manchester #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:01:22 @jublikrang2if you need any help, let us know! :-) Welcome @Marisa_C  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:01:24 @jublikrang2 If new to this chat pls ask @Shaunwilden or me for help  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:02:14 @Shaunwilden   @teflgeek going to Manchester as well  - see u there!  #ELTchat
jublikrang2 2015-03-25T12:02:24 @angelos_bollas @jublikrang2if @Marisa_C Thanks ! Am pretty new to Elt as well so may have many questions in future #new2elt #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:02:42 So, shall we kick off then? Clare not here - but it IS an interesting topic  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:02:43 @Marisa_C Not if I can help it ;-)  #eltchat
verapischina 2015-03-25T12:03:00 @Marisa_C that makes two of us :) #new2elt #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:03:02 @Shaunwilden ok try and avoid me  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:03:23 @Marisa_C I cant you are doing something at my PCE ;-)  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:03:32 @verapischina but this nurph thingie is really cool and makes it easy  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:03:54 @Shaunwilden can always withdraw  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:04:08 @Marisa_C Until they sponsor this chat we should stop giving them free publicity ;-)  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:04:24 @Marisa_C Nooooo you know i am looking forward to annoying you  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:05:02 So - annoying fellow moderators aside, don't you think teachers are into the experimentation business ANYWAY? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:05:23 I try things out on a daily basis  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:05:32 @Marisa_C every lesson is - to some extent - an experiment #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:05:32 @Marisa_Cstorms out closes twitter and sulks  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:05:45 But what @languageeteach is asking is how to be more organized about it #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:05:55 @Marisa_C Can I say no I dont think they do in the way you mean experimentation  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:06:52 @Shaunwilden  I agree - see my previous tweet  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:07:02 @Marisa_C Not really - I learned how to do it in Delta - before that, same things every day #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:07:22 @teflgeek @Marisa_C Yes, I would agree with that #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:07:57 @teflgeek @Marisa_C The same is true of other aspects like marking too - can experiment ith different tones etc #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:08:02 @angelos_bollas So perhaps teachers who have some training or find out things online get involved in class trialling  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:08:14 @patrickelt @Marisa_C  But I guess it's the way you learn (or not) from it that makes the difference - what you do with the data #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:08:51 ELT has inherent difficulties with numerical, quantitative studies and data  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:09:09 @Marisa_C Yes - for me sharing about a new technique let's say, has become an additional incentive #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:09:24 @Marisa_C too much is context dependent - all we can really say is "it worked for me" #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:09:32 on the other hand, class research does not yield what we would call statistically significant results  #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:09:43 @teflgeek @Marisa_C I suppose this relates to quality of reflection #eltchat
textivate 2015-03-25T12:09:55 RT @teflgeek: @Marisa_C every lesson is - to some extent - an experiment #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:10:03 Which makes me very wary and negative towards all these posts about evidence based teaching  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:10:05 @teflgeek Isn't this the reason why we should become more systematic about it? @Marisa_C #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:10:33 @teflgeek @Marisa_C Yes and with that group of learners #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:10:35 @angelos_bollas @teflgeek How could we be more systematic? Good Questions  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:10:44 @Marisa_C Does it need to be statistically significant? #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:11:19 @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C but how do you define your results?  What constitutes a successful experiment? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:11:42 @Shaunwilden there is a big divide at the mo btwn ppl who want research evidence - yes this DOES need to be statistically signif #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:11:43 @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas @teflgeek ..but is that entirely the point?  Do we not always need to react to different contexts? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:11:53 @teflgeek @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C Doesn’t depend on what the goals are they could be t or sts related or both #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:11:56 @Marisa_C ELT programs lack modules on qualitative/quantitative research-same true for Diplomas.No training - how could we do it? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:11:57 and people who accept the fact tht this is impossible  #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:12:17 @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas @teflgeek ..and is there not a need to learn from experience as well as from systematic research #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:12:30 @Marisa_C Yeah but does an exp say on using rods need to be so in depth? #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:12:50 @patrickelt Shouldn't we be able to do so? @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:13:02 @patrickelt @angelos_bollas @teflgeek of course there is - if i look at what i do or preach.... it's mostly experience  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:14:14 @Shaunwilden @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C Exactly.  You need to develop a set of objective measures for every aspect of teaching. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:14:19 Most of it is backed up by some reading some theory some evidence but not only - it's class experiences that guide teachers #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:14:20 @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Agree with you.  Something like this can be useful in some contexts but why generalise? #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:14:26 hello #eltchat folks - joining now - imo, anything that is supported by evidence gets credibility.
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:14:50 @teflgeek @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C Yes agreed, all i am saying is that they dont need to be that formal #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:14:52 @Marisa_C and belief.  #eltchat
JoyOfESL 2015-03-25T12:14:53 Sorry to join late. Anyone talking about dogme? I don't seem to be seeing all the tweets.  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:15:18 Erm we have rules on the use of the d word #eltchat  ;-)
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:15:21 @Marisa_C Many teachers are not even aware of any form of research. They do so mostly by intuition and experience. #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:15:34 @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C @teflgeek Some research is useful but not sure quantitative research is always so important #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:15:54 @teflgeek without values and beliefs, a philosophy of education in a sense, nothing much can be chosen/evaluated consciously  #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:15:58 @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C @teflgeek Qualitative detailed studies within contexts may be more useful #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:16:06 @JoyOfESL Not exactly. It's on the need to support new approaches by research. #eltchat hope I got it right.
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:16:19 @patrickelt not sure if this is a q of more/less - we def need some quant. evidence, don't we? @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:16:42 @Marisa_C yes, but what works for one teacher might be because they believe in it and another teacher might not, so it doesn't. #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:17:00 @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C @teflgeek Do we?  I am not sure why. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:17:12 @teflgeek  that was tho the problem with most of the approaches and methods research :-)  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:17:35 @angelos_bollas Furthermore all teachers need not be trained in quantitative research. @patrickelt @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:17:51 @patrickelt It'll make sharing exp much easier and effective. And we would know why sth works or not @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:17:57 I believe we have to move to HOW to plan and do good class research or even less formal, sensible class trialling #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:18:03 @patrickelt @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C Because you see patterns in the larger data that don't show elsewhere.  You need both IMO. #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:18:32 @Marisa_C Isn't that what makes teaching such a unique and challenging thing. @teflgeek #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:18:56 @cherrymp but it really helps-not for teaching per se - for writing about, sharing, training, etc. @patrickelt @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:19:01 @teflgeek agree David - but experimental design not part of most teacher courses - i did it bcz of MA in Applied Linguistics  #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:19:26 @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C @teflgeek Quantitive research rarely if ever shows why something works. #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:19:37 @Marisa_C First step: Read the lit, right? #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:19:45 @Marisa_C I agree w/ you Marisa. Many teachers are not trained to do any form of research. @teflgeek #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:19:45 RT @cherrymp: @Marisa_C Isn't that what makes teaching such a unique and challenging thing. @teflgeek #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:19:51 RT @angelos_bollas: @Marisa_C First step: Read the lit, right? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:20:07 @patrickelt that's what i learnt at uni - also how to lie with statistics :-D  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:20:28 @patrickelt It shows if it does or doesn't though to a context larger than the classroom @Marisa_C @teflgeek #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:20:28 @teflgeek @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C But what kinds of patterns will emerge?  They usually seem to be vague #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:20:40 @angelos_bollas Yes. Reading about others' research helps a lot. To begin with one can even replicate studies in one's own context. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:20:50 RT @cherrymp: @angelos_bollas Yes. Reading about others' research helps a lot. To begin with one can even replicate studies in one's own co…
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:21:06 RT @cherrymp: @angelos_bollas Yes. Reading about others' research helps a lot. To begin with one can even replicate studies in one's own co…
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:21:08 @teflgeek @angelos_bollas @Marisa_C What I say is not always true but many that are more specific are not  very large scale #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:21:29 A good source for teachers to read about accessible - more or less - research is ELTJ  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:21:41 RT @Marisa_C: A good source for teachers to read about accessible - more or less - research is ELTJ  #ELTchat
verapischina 2015-03-25T12:21:52 RT @Marisa_C: A good source for teachers to read about accessible - more or less - research is ELTJ  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:21:53 @patrickelt If you measure student success with reading (e.g FCE) and try different approaches and one approach gets betters scores #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:21:57 Most of the refereed research journals too dense and inaccessible as language to average teacher  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:22:16 @angelos_bollas May be what they call as variables. But in research identifying/controlling them not easy. #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:22:35 @patrickelt then you have some qualitative data that shows a more effective approach to teaching reading.  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:22:42 academics use the power lingo or other academics to remain abstruse and unreachable in their ivory towers (they wish they were twrs #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:23:17 @Marisa_C not completly true.  They mostly do it to cover their backs and hide from other academics. #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:23:23 @Marisa_C Also if teachers develop a habit of reading any journal, then imo it will become "accessible". #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:23:28 ... sorry it should say above "of other academics"  auto correct! #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:23:29 @teflgeek Understand your point but questions of validity and reliability - is the test actually a good measure of reading #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:23:32 @Marisa_C I think this is changing, though. Slowly but... #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:23:56 @teflgeek Are the groups at the same starting point?  #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:24:06 @patrickelt absolutely.  but I think quantitative resarch has a lot to offer here. #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:24:41 @teflgeek LOL! Mostly true. It's the lingo that makes all the difference; not the idea. @Marisa_C #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:24:46 @teflgeek Qualitative studies of how students actually take on different strategies as result of your approach may be more useful #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:25:02 #eltchat hello all....mostly lurking today....
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:25:05 The general belief of academics is that teacher research ought to feed into larger scale investigations - but path unclear #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:25:18 @angelos_bollas Why do you think so? @Marisa_C #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:25:29 @pjgallantry hi there - lurk all ya like :-D  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:25:55 @pjgallantry hello! lurk and enjoy #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:26:24 @cherrymp The younger the academics the more down to earth - I see it in my uni. Maybe not everywhere true @Marisa_C #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:26:27 @teflgeek Think quantitative research is very useful for the study of the language but not convinced re: pedagogy #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:26:29 #eltchat I'd argue a problem with language research is that each lesson is essentially a unique experiment
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:26:37 School of One (@InnovateNYCedu) uses achievement data to plan personalised learning programmes.  Big Ed data can be a good thing #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:26:42 @patrickelt Also is it the approach alone that made the difference is debatable. @teflgeek #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:26:54 Have we not skewed the topic somewhat into the area of research? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:27:34 @Shaunwilden We  have - you are right - but this is pulled by the participants' interests no?  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:27:48 @patrickelt it depends on the purpose of the research #eltchat.  Are you doing it to make everyone do it or to try and make yourself better?
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:27:50 Have tried to bring back to topic focus :-)  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:28:50 @angelos_bollas So are the bloggers. Some are able to connect practice with theory in an accessible way. Eg: @thornburyscott #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:28:51 @teflgeek @InnovateNYCedu There csan be useful big data (eg about the benefits of mixed ability) but this seems at a diff level #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:28:52 @teflgeek Hopefully the first! @patrickelt #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:29:00 @cherrymp @teflgeek Yes, agree. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:29:06 I think it might be a good idea to comback to a teacher experimenting with an activity type or method 2check out its effectiveness #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:29:19 @Marisa_C I think there is an overlap but I didn’t see research as what the topic was asking  #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:29:24 #eltchat comparing and contrasting two different approaches to see which is 'better' v hard unless you have absolutely identical classes
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:29:27 @Marisa_C has anyone mentioned the action research cycle yet? #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:29:32 @Marisa_C And many are paid too which most often teachers cannot afford. #eltchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:29:33 @Shaunwilden Yes, sorry. #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:29:44 @cherrymp Not sure if this is proper for blogging or better for a personal resource page, though #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:29:56 @teflgeek have tried to - this is what we need - pls go ahead  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:30:55 RT @teflgeek https://t.co/YyCCEm7RvD #eltchat
tefljobslondon 2015-03-25T12:31:24 RT @Marisa_C: "Experimenting with alternative practices/approaches/methods ; how to go about it & how to see if the idea worked!" #ELTchat …
tefljobslondon 2015-03-25T12:31:43 Follow #ELTchat right now!
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:32:01 Here is a very good book on google books on Qualitative research 'Voices from the classroom" https://t.co/1p5ZpAF2BL  #ELTchat
jublikrang2 2015-03-25T12:32:09 Am doing an Elt teacher course& we are looking closely variables & getting learners understand how they learn best #new2elt #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:32:15 @angelos_bollas But bloggers who could help teachers see the theory-practice connect can help them learn in an informal way. #eltchat
fionamau 2015-03-25T12:32:22 Hi there. Sorry to ask but what's the topic? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:32:52 @fionamau Experimenting with alternative practices/approaches/methods ; how to go about it & how to see if the idea worked! #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:32:53 RT @Marisa_C: Here is a very good book on google books on Qualitative research 'Voices from the classroom" https://t.co/1p5ZpAF2BL  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:33:07 @fionamau we ve lost track a bit but what @Shaunwilden said  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:33:19 @cherrymp How informal it is when it looks like yet another page from a book? #eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:33:25 RT @tefljobslondon: Follow #ELTchat right now!
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:33:43 @angelos_bollas Not very helpful. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:33:45 @cherrymp @angelos_bollas I don't think bloggers are qualified more than a colleague int he staffroom - just more audience  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:34:12 So, is anyone doing action research, or experimentation w/ diff practices? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:34:20 @Marisa_C @cherrymp @angelos_bollas And extra motivation? #ELTchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:34:22 #eltchat maybe the focus of class research is wrong: maybe instead of investigating the method, we first observe lang learner behaviour...
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:34:43 @Marisa_C So you mean those who do research don't blog and vice versa! @angelos_bollas #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:35:15 @cherrymp no please don't read what i have not said in my tweets :-)  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:35:23 @angelos_bollas every now and again. #eltchat.  When I have time between teaching engagements!
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:35:26 @pjgallantry Yes, this is the key #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:35:37 #eltchat ..that is, we observe the learners' reactions to the tasks they do, & what happens to e.g. motivation
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:36:14 @Marisa_C true! @cherrymp #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:36:18 I think what teachers can investigate is learner reaction to activity or method - but this not always obvious or measurable  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:36:23 RT @angelos_bollas: So, is anyone doing action research, or experimentation w/ diff practices? #eltchat > Not me! #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:36:32 @pjgallantry but in action research,  isn't that the kind of data we gather no matter what we're trying to find out? #eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:36:49 @cherrymp @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas The ivory tower issue is endemic - researchers r writing for academia not us 1/2 #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:36:50 @Marisa_C No but it is a starting point nevertheless #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:37:07 @pjgallantry Yes and we can also remember that they keep experimenting wth how they react #eltchat
BobK99 2015-03-25T12:37:12 Tuning in late to #eltchat - catching up  :-)
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:37:46 @pjgallantry For example, they might try different strategies- presumably teachers can encourage this #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:37:48 In the past, we used to run a great course that involved class research but for a longer stint than 1 lesson - Ts had to do 20 1/2 #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:38:00 @cherrymp @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas ...Bloggers who build bridges between research and practice e.g. @thornburyscott r very useful #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:38:03 @Marisa_C And to a certain extend it depends on the teacher's ability to set the new practice,rather than the practice itself, no? #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:38:09 #ELTchat we should also have an instrument for measuring TEACHERS' reactionsto/expectations of different methods/approaches
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:38:11 #eltchat A good way to determine effacacy of a practice is to collect feedback from Ss during X intervals. Assessing process & persistence.
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:38:40 @SophiaKhan4 @cherrymp @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas I think they are writing for both but their jobs depend on the academic audience #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:38:42 2/2 ..20 lessons, and then reflect on reactions AND results of teaching  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:38:49 @patrickelt The observation needs to be systematic, should be guided by a problem & shoud lead to something. @pjgallantry #eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:38:53 @BobK99 Me too - sorry - hi everyone! #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:38:54 @teflgeek Do you repeat same experiments over and over with diff students? Is this helpful? #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:39:00 This data is very difficult to gather WHILE teaching - it can be useful to get an observer into your class #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:39:28 @angelos_bollas No.  Just when I want t know something. #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:39:29 @teflgeek I think we may try to- whether we actually do so, however....#eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:39:34 @patrickelt @cherrymp @Marisa_C @angelos_bollas Yes that's the thing. Interesting article on this: http://t.co/37UhVHSnn7 #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:39:35 @SophiaKhan4  Very few of those @thornburyscott is someone who can report research in a simple way for teachers  #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:40:17 @angelos_bollas Sometimes I get the students to experiment - does this exam strategy work for you?  Are you getting higher scores? #eltchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:40:25 Using alt meth encompasses a wide def. For ex alt practice can reversal of leader (Ss/Ts centered) or logic (inductive, deductive) #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:40:25 RT @SophiaKhan4: Interesting article on why academic writing is so academic: http://t.co/W1zdlSeF6F #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:41:26 @teflgeek So you use a variety of tools to access the data that will hopefully lead you somewhere. @angelos_bollas #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:41:43 I think repeating the same class trialling procedure is useful but getting FB from Ss and colleagues can inform repetitions #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:42:19 @Marisa_C @SophiaKhan4 @thornburyscott "Clear way" rather than just a "simple way" - same is true of @GeoffreyJordan #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:42:36 @Marisa_C True. Could add @leoselivan and @muranava on lexical/corpora things & @ebefl for questioning accepted wisdom. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:42:43 RT @Marisa_C: I think repeating the same class trialling procedure is useful but getting FB from Ss and colleagues can inform repetitions #…
JoyOfESL 2015-03-25T12:42:52 I recently implemented a different approach but was lucky to have the idea already well researched #eltchat http://t.co/dQ3JV7K45w
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:42:53 @pjgallantry true. #eltchat
textivate 2015-03-25T12:43:07 #eltchat So... what sort of things are people experimenting with?
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:43:14 @jankenb2 Feedback helps. But at times Ss can be very kind to their teachers in some cultures. #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:43:34 RT @Marisa_C: I think repeating the same class trialling procedure is useful but getting FB from Ss and colleagues can inform repetitions #…
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:43:51 @cherrymp @angelos_bollas Well, different things work for different people.  One size does not fit all. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:43:57 RT @textivate: #eltchat So... what sort of things are people experimenting with?
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:44:01 #eltchat Determining value of a changed practice must be assessed w/in context of the experiment. The dynamics include class/current events
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:44:18 @cherrymp @angelos_bollas So it's about finding what works best for the different individuals in the classroom. #eltchat
JoyOfESL 2015-03-25T12:44:19 Sorry, have to run from car to classroom now. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:44:22 @SophiaKhan4 don't feel so confident that i would trust any of those for my reading :-)  #ELTchat
patrickelt 2015-03-25T12:44:50 @SophiaKhan4 @Marisa_C @leoselivan @muranava @ebefl Yes, I agree.  Those are all good sources.  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:45:15 RT @SophiaKhan4: Could add @leoselivan and @muranava on lexical/corpora things & @ebefl for questioning accepted wisdom. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:45:44 RT @teflgeek: @cherrymp @angelos_bollas Well, different things work for different people.  One size does not fit all. #eltchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:46:05 @cherrymp #eltchat Y, so create several types of feedback: obj/subjective, sampling, formeval etc. 4 ex, a KWL chart w/WD (will do) column
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T12:46:23 Hello. In at the end, as usual #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:46:33 We have to get back to the action research cycle - once you have defined an area - how do you collect info/data?  #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:47:09 @Marisa_C That's ok :) Just saying that bloggers can be bridges that help Ts question & access further reading - we need that #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:47:09 RT @Marisa_C: We have to get back to the action research cycle - once you have defined an area - how do you collect info/data?  #ELTchat
dimodeca 2015-03-25T12:47:24 RT @muranava: PHaVE #phrasalverb dictionary now with added TED video examples http://t.co/feVV1F8lKr #eltchat #keltchat #auselt #AusELT #es…
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:47:26 @SueAnnan But always at the front in getting those #eltchat transcripts ready!
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:47:27 @jankenb2 has listed some  #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T12:47:43 @Marisa_C make an observation instrument? #ELTchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:47:47 #eltchat asking Ss to exlain how this new knowledge/process/activity will help in thier future learning is both evalative & lrning event
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:47:49 @SophiaKhan4 yes true - some of it is also a lot of noise :-D   #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:48:10 @SueAnnan for both learners and colleagues @Marisa_C #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:48:26 @SophiaKhan4 Agree with you on that 'bridging' part. #eltchat @Marisa_C
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:48:42 @SueAnnan yes - like a questionnaire or coding instrument you mean?  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:48:58 @SueAnnan @Marisa_C What do you mean? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:49:08 @cherrymp @SophiaKhan4 agree as well on the bridging concept  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:49:20 @Marisa_C How you collect is closely linked with what you want to collect. E.g. S satisfaction needs to have S feedback.#eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:49:48 RT @cherrymp: @Marisa_C How you collect is closely linked with what you want to collect. E.g. S satisfaction needs to have S feedback.#eltc…
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:49:53 Can recordings audio or video for example help in any way?  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:50:04 RT @Marisa_C: Can recordings audio or video for example help in any way?  #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T12:50:05 @Marisa_C yes.#ELTchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:50:16 @SophiaKhan4 @Marisa_C Bloggers are impt links to ed rsrch. Consider blogging an empty canvas It builds momentum & then formalized. #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:50:17 Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:50:33 @Marisa_C They do! Have done it in the past and what those recordings revealed where astonishing! #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:50:34 #ELTchat @Marisa_C collect data anecdotally, e.g. via surveys, through testing and objective info, e.g. from peer observation
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T12:50:50 @Marisa_C In the sense that feedback we receive will be wider and varied - not only colleagues from same school #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:51:02 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/oCG1dsGpKn > very true
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:51:42 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:51:57 @cherrymp @Marisa_C Yes, But recognizing & inclding forms of eval demo lrning transferred to other contexts is key. #eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:52:00 @teflgeek Still true - so many overlapping i& interacting variables it's almost impossible to separate strands out. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:52:02 @teflgeek agree with you fully - have supported many projects and difficult to decide if Ss better BECAUSE subject of investigatn #ELTchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:52:13 #eltchat it's not enough to rely on a single method to capture a comprehensive view of the lesson(s) as they happen.
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:52:31 @cherrymp did you record once or at various points over time? #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:52:47 @Marisa_C Very often audio recordings are easier to implement than videos. #eltchat
taskmagic 2015-03-25T12:52:49 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
textivate 2015-03-25T12:52:49 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:52:52 RT @languageeteach:  Has anyone used pscyhodrama in their teaching?Humanistic? Hippyish? http://t.co/b29gEyfRlZ #ELTchat
sergiolm21 2015-03-25T12:53:17 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:53:18 @cherrymp @Marisa_C though with tablets these days it is easier than ever to capture video #eltchat
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:53:25 #ELTchat have to remember that a class is a dynamic entity, while methods tend to be more 'fixed' as it were...1/2
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:53:25 @SophiaKhan4 which is why action research is so useful to the single teacher - it's all about you! #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:53:43 @Marisa_C It was full CR recordings for a few days at least. #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:53:56 RT @teflgeek: @SophiaKhan4 which is why action research is so useful to the single teacher - it's all about you! #eltchat > Agree!
pjgallantry 2015-03-25T12:54:05 #ELTchat 2/2...so when testing method in any given class, we are observing a snapshot of it in practice.
languageeteach 2015-03-25T12:54:06 @Shaunwilden ~Thanks. Forgot how the hashtag. Am in a rush #Eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:54:57 @Marisa_C problem with much action research is that it takes teacher focus OFF the students on onto something else. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:55:14 Yes!  class research is for the benefit of one T and her Ss but also a useful tool to get OTHER Ts to question and reflect #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:55:18 @Shaunwilden That's true. But somebody has to be there to record is what I meant whereas the audio recorder can be in pocket. #eltchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:55:26 @SophiaKhan4 @teflgeek Yes, We never know how Ts input changes Ss output Think systems lrning; a spider web reaction w/each input. #eltchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:55:52 @teflgeek Or even…your students! We can only do our best to maximise learning but in the end, it's they who do it #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:56:02 @Marisa_C Only if it is recorded and reported. #eltchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T12:56:22 @teflgeek @Marisa_C That is why you have designed the plan with periodic data collection pts that are both obj & sub. #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:57:14 @SophiaKhan4 It needn't always focus on the students. It could be the teacher who researches his/her practice. @teflgeek #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T12:57:38 We will be needing a summary writer…….#eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:57:40 Another very good book to inform Ts " Focus on the Language Classroom" Bailey with Allwright https://t.co/kykz70a5DQ #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T12:57:59 @jankenb2 @Marisa_C @shaunwilden - Maybe there's a market for a short course in educational research techniques? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:58:04 Sorry my links huge cos on google books  #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:58:24 @Shaunwilden I think someone who couldn;t attend may have volunteered earlier? Not sure #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:58:38 @teflgeek @jankenb2 @shaunwilden there may be - we used to offer one in the past but interest has dropped here  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T12:58:54 @teflgeek I think there is. Teachers need to know the what, the why and the how of research. @jankenb2 @Marisa_C @shaunwilden #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T12:59:41 May be we should organise one again - accepting proposals here :-)  #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T12:59:47 @cherrymp @teflgeek But don't they inevitable intersect? As in practice is evaluated effect on sts? #eltchat
MichaelChesnut2 2015-03-25T12:59:59 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:01:23 @SophiaKhan4 There is this connection of student learning and teacher effectiveness. But don't know how valid that is! @teflgeek #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:02:13 Just a quick reminder by @Shaunwilden - next week last #eltchat - we will be at IATEFL - 4/5 moderators so quite difficult  #ELTchat
jublikrang2 2015-03-25T13:02:14 good article about anecdotal data /Nunan: Seven hypotheses about language teaching and learning (Tesol Matters) #new2Elt #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T13:02:17 Don’t forget Europe does its clock thing at the weekend so next week is 21.00 BST NOT GMT #ELTchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T13:02:18 @cherrymp @SophiaKhan4 @teflgeek Reflection on practice is a alt meth itself. Formally called integrated action or theory in action #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:02:21 @SophiaKhan4 And what I meant is that there could be a strand which leads to the teacher as well. Needn't always be Ss. @teflgeek #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T13:02:28 @cherrymp @SophiaKhan4 It's all about how much everybody cares about what they're doing in the classroom.  How do you measure that? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:02:30 RT @Shaunwilden: Don’t forget Europe does its clock thing at the weekend so next week is 21.00 BST NOT GMT #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T13:03:12 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden and clocks change at the weekend #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:03:20 After next week we break for two weeks @Shaunwilden ??  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:03:46 RT @Shaunwilden: Don’t forget Europe does its clock thing at the weekend so next week is 21.00 BST NOT GMT #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T13:03:47 @Marisa_C argue now confused ;-) i would say yes - easter and IATEFL #eltchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T13:03:57 @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Are we having an #eltchat Tweetup in Manchester? #Socialdiaryfillingup
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:04:02 @teflgeek I think the act of voluntary class trialling is indicative of a desire for change and continuous develoment #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T13:04:06 @cherrymp @teflgeek Sorry yes, that's true :) #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:04:39 @teflgeek @Shaunwilden I think we should - yes - we need to gather the flock and have some time f-2-f  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:04:59 RT @Marisa_C: I think the act of voluntary class trialling is indicative of a desire for change and continuous development #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:05:37 @Shaunwilden Greek easter  is IATEFL time for me  #ELTchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T13:05:38 @teflgeek @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Begin by isolating theory. What will chnge? Practice, resource, Ss pop etc. Create 2/evals sub/obj #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-25T13:05:39 Using the end of #ELTchat to plug the new podcast http://t.co/mKq2KK6hEp #marissawilltellmeoff
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T13:05:54 RT @Shaunwilden: Using the end of #ELTchat to plug the new podcast http://t.co/mKq2KK6hEp #marissawilltellmeoff
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:06:10 @Shaunwilden ARRRGGHHHHH - GRRRRRR  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:06:32 @Marisa_C @teflgeek @Shaunwilden sorry to miss that :-( #ELTchat
iPrOud82 2015-03-25T13:06:51 Miss chatting with you and gonna be available just when you take a break  #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:07:08 RT @Shaunwilden: Using the end of #ELTchat to plug the new podcast http://t.co/mKq2KK6hEp #marissawilltellmeoff
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:07:16 RT @Shaunwilden: Using the end of #ELTchat to plug the new podcast http://t.co/vOhgpmzDBR
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:07:38 @iPrOud82 we'll be back soon - we'll tweet stuff from iatefl on our hashtag and remember so many live talks online to watch!  #ELTchat
SophiaKhan4 2015-03-25T13:08:00 @teflgeek @cherrymp So many variables! #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:08:20 RT @Marisa_C: @iPrOud82 we'll be back soon - we'll tweet stuff from iatefl on our hashtag and remember so many live talks online to watch! …
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:08:30 RT @Marisa_C: @iPrOud82 we'll be back soon - we'll tweet stuff from iatefl on our hashtag and remember so many live talks online to watch! …
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:09:18 Thanks everyone and @Marisa_C particularly for talking about @nerph at the beginning. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T13:10:10 Missed a bit. Who wants the transcript? #ELTchat
teflgeek 2015-03-25T13:10:17 Got to go - thanks for a great #eltchat.  Nice to be back!
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:10:24 @cherrymp yay - I noticed just now you are logged into @Nurph - isn't it easier?  #ELTchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:11:02 Yeah it's @Nurph - got it wrong. Guess with it I'll never miss the all important hashtag:  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:11:13 @SueAnnan @Ashowski has said he wanted to do it tho I think #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-25T13:11:46 @Marisa_C @Ashowski okay. I'll get on to it now #ELTchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:12:07 @cherrymp it's a good tool, #ELTchat
myles_klynhout 2015-03-25T13:12:21 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:13:04 @teflgeek good to have u back David #eltchat
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:13:16 @SophiaKhan4 And that is why a good research design is essential. @teflgeek #eltchat
angelos_bollas 2015-03-25T13:13:36 Have a great day! :-) #ELTchat
jankenb2 2015-03-25T13:14:00 #eltchat Interesting discussion. Ts are researchers...we do it every day on informal basis & is known as "double loop learning". Good day!
cherrymp 2015-03-25T13:15:02 RT @jankenb2: #eltchat Interesting discussion. Ts are researchers...we do it every day on informal basis & is known as "double loop learnin…
Marisa_C 2015-03-25T13:15:46 @angelos_bollas @patrickelt  @JoyOfESL  @jublikrang2 great to have you join us - this was a lively #ELTchat tho not sure we covered the Q:-)
michaelegriffin 2015-03-25T13:16:38 RT @teflgeek: Couldn't get this quote into a single tweet - hence pic.  #eltchat http://t.co/gDwy1P28BY
daylemajor 2015-03-25T13:23:34 @jankenb2 @SophiaKhan4 @teflgeek Agreed. Systems perspective important: See e.g. http://t.co/gI10xgtVZG // cc @MichaelChesnut2  #eltchat

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