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SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T20:52:10 | Waiting for #ELTchat !!!My first time to be part of it ☺️ |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T20:52:37 | RT @Marisa_C: What do you think about our topic? Join the #ELTchat discussion in 5 minutes http://t.co/iB6D8xlUq9 |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T20:55:56 | @SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, welcome! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T20:56:21 | RT @racheldaw18: @SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, w… |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T20:56:44 | @racheldaw18 @SyedaJavaid Hola Rachel! Chat in a bit #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T20:57:16 | @SyedaJavaid Hello and welcome - it's good to have new faces on #ELTchat - we do welcome new teachers as @racheldaw18 says :-) |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T20:57:26 | @SyedaJavaid thank you ☺️Am just using the simple twitter app on my iphone.What is tweetdeck ? #ELTchat |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T20:59:21 | @SyedaJavaid Tweetdeck is a way of viewing hashtagged conversations like #ELTchat in different 'channels' - works very well! #ELTchat |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:00:03 | @Marisa_C I just use application in a window; I didn't realise there was an extension for Tweetdeck! #somethingneweveryday #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:01:10 | evening all #ELTchat |
ELTchat | 2015-03-18T21:01:21 | Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we thought #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:01:44 | @naomishema @rosemerebard Starting our #ELTchat Naomi, joining us at all? |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:01:47 | RT @ELTchat: Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we though… |
ELTchat | 2015-03-18T21:01:51 | Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:02:03 | @SueAnnan Evening Sue! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:02:39 | RT @ELTchat: Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them #ELTchat @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:02:53 | @racheldaw18 yes a tweetdeck extension - allows u to have many different columns for different hashtags faves etc #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:04:08 | Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:04:50 | @SueAnnan but there is #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:05:14 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat I wish it was, but unfortunately most TAs don't support NNESTs' rights #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:05:17 | @pressfuturist @laIoli Any comments you might want to send to #ELTchat from that webinar? |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:05:40 | It's interesting when you look for ELT jobs, how sometimes NESTs are specified...but this does seem to have regional tendencies... #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:05:47 | I am a NNEST #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:05:54 | @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak The chat starts now, please follow us and take part by using the #eltchat hashtag |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:06:29 | @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak Of course it's a question. Probably better felt by nNESTs #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:06:29 | I would probably not be able to get jobs available to my NEST fresh CELTA graduates #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:07:02 | #eltchat Problem can come from clients who request NESTs...I agree with @SueAnnan, native doesn't always mean better |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:07:10 | RT @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim #ELTchat A continuing disgrace upon the profession, it really is. Good teachers are good teachers |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:07:17 | @SueAnnan yea... and i guess despite my NNEST status #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:07:22 | I find I am training more and more NNESTs these days- but they seem to find work easily enough in Europe #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:07:48 | @SueAnnan But is there a glass ceiling #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:08:09 | @racheldaw18 Yes. In my context - ESOL in the UK - I work with more NNESTs than NESTs! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:08:19 | RT @hughdellar #ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I was being rhetorical.Rather than trying to deny the reality of NNSTs experience of discrimination |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:08:35 | @HadaLitim That I don't know TBH. We are still fighting sexism at this end #ELTchat |
Shaunwilden | 2015-03-18T21:08:41 | evening all #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:08:49 | Like @SueAnnan says my trainee NNESTs find loads of jobs in europe mainly summer in the UK #eltchat more difficult all-year round #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:08:50 | @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I figured. Please use #ELTchat rather than @ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:08:51 | @Marisa_C If @laIoli is online, they’d be better coming from her - her marvellous talk prompted a heartfelt response from teachers. #eltchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:09:19 | @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:09:38 | @Marisa_C But if @laloli’s offline, I’ll pop back and share some of the key points. #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:09:41 | @pressfuturist @laIoli hmm was not aware - would have invited her #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:09:56 | @SueAnnan True! #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:10:04 | @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Definitely. It is a shame that this myth that only NESTs can teach English effectively #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:10:26 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:11:07 | I've met many extremely able NNESTs who have worked at our school. Sometinmes the problem is the students #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:11:26 | @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it abt teaching though? Some untrained natives speakers are given pref over nNESTs #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:11:26 | I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:11:36 | RT @Marisa_C: RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involve… |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:11:42 | That sounds great @pressfuturist - ever the master of conciseness/concision (never know the difference, and I'm a NEST!) #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:12:23 | @SueAnnan WHo are the main stake holders when it comes to recruiting decisions? #ELTchat |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:12:47 | In my admittedly minimal experience of teaching Eng online, NESTs seem to get far more requests from learners - unjustly. #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:12:51 | RT @Marisa_C: I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:13:22 | @HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:13:38 | RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:13:42 | @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar certainly it's often not about choosing the best teacher #eltchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:13:48 | @HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception related to NESTs #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:13:56 | One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at first. #eltchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:13:59 | @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it also about students' perceptions? Many want native speakers qualified or not #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:14:10 | @SueAnnan The BC where I work recruits strictly on merit and nNESTs are actually much greater in number #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:14:28 | @pressfuturist That is a question of age too. #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:14:35 | @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak To sound like them no doubt?! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:14:53 | RT @TeresaBestwick: @HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception relat… |
TESOLacademic | 2015-03-18T21:15:14 | Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:15:17 | RT @pressfuturist: One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at … |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:15:18 | #ELTchat For me, as for many NESTs, most of my grasp of grammar came originally from learning another language - in my case Latin! |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:15:23 | I think tho that just as many NESTs should not be teachers for lack of qualifications ... there is a flispside to this for NNESTs #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:15:30 | @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar do they? How many students? Have you got any evidence? #eltchat |
AchilleasK | 2015-03-18T21:15:54 | RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:15:54 | is it worse in the countries where the Nests want to work, rather than UK ? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:16:00 | many NNEST who are great re pedagogy are complacent re language skills and poor language models #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:16:06 | @SueAnnan #eltchat Reflecting changing ways of learning English in UK classrooms through the generations? |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:16:37 | yes, definitely. Teaching is an art & skill and can perfectly executed by anyone.NNST can relate better with the students. #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:16:39 | @MarekKiczkowiak @languageeteach @hughdellar Me? #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:16:49 | RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation? #ELTchat > Illegal |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:16:53 | @pressfuturist absolutely #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:17:18 | @pressfuturist Absolutely! NNESTs often have a better grasp of grammar especially metalanguage #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:17:27 | I'm a French national, speak French fluently but can't teach it! #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:17:30 | Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong wrote about this earlier #eltchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:17:36 | @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Yes. Even if they end up saying 'Wag Wan!" for example #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:17:37 | RT @Marisa_C: Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong wrote about this earlier #eltchat |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:17:49 | I will happily hold my hands up to @pressfuturist 's pt re. NESTs having worse grammar knowledge! Altho I am learning :) #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:17:50 | @TeresaBestwick Yes, but they often have outmoded teaching methods #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:17:53 | @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Lol! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:18:41 | @SueAnnan @TeresaBestwick Really? Surely not if they're properly trained? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:18:52 | NESTs have poor formal awareness of morphology and rules NNESTs often poor functional and sociolinguistic awareness #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:19:27 | @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:19:30 | @Marisa_C So it sounds obvious that they should learn from each other! #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:19:30 | @HadaLitim oh yes. I often have EU teachers on my course who come to try out new ideas because they are stuck in the past #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:19:38 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #… |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:19:42 | Both groups have strengths and weaknesses and can learn off one anothe #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:19:44 | It might be a matter of perception - to a lot of learners/parents, having an accent means you do not master the language fully #ELTchat |
TESOLacademic | 2015-03-18T21:19:45 | But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender etc #eltchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:20:02 | @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar No evidence alas but remember a group of Ss who complained about a British Chinese teacher #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:20:17 | #eltchat (Confession: I taught in Japan for three years w/out teaching qualifications or language-teaching experience. Hired because NEST.) |
AchilleasK | 2015-03-18T21:20:18 | RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender … |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:20:24 | @TESOLacademic very true Huw - limited to say just NNEST vs NEST #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:20:26 | @SueAnnan @HadaLitim Definitely a big difference between TESOL-trained and mainstream, though methodology of latter improving #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:20:29 | @SueAnnan Interesting. In the past or in the exisiting methods of their country? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:20:43 | @HadaLitim absolutely #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:20:49 | @Marisa_C the NNESTs have better understanding of the grammar and can easily explain to the SLL #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:21:01 | @HadaLitim often they way they were taught #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:21:13 | @ivangysel Yes, true, and often they confuse accent and pronunciation #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:21:24 | @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar ...because they thought he wasn't 'British' enough.This was a few yrs though #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:21:26 | @SyedaJavaid the problem is the 'explaining' bit very often #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:21:30 | @ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:21:40 | @pressfuturist OUch! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:21:56 | RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity; sexuality; gender … |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:22:25 | @TESOLacademic So true, there is a big ethnicity issue here #eltchat |
TESOLacademic | 2015-03-18T21:22:29 | @ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners. #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:22:33 | #ELTchat I consequently began teaching as a very poor teacher. But I like to think that I worked hard & improved, like many NESTs & NNESTs. |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:22:35 | One of our fulltime teachers is Italian- with a strong accent. We tease him, but he's a good teacher and sts love him #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:22:58 | @pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:23:02 | RT @TESOLacademic: @ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners. #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:23:06 | @TESOLacademic I completely agree, sometimes "native" has a different connotation not only L1 #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:23:08 | @TESOLacademic Agreed #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:23:23 | RT @pressfuturist: @ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltc… |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:23:32 | RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:23:33 | #ELTchat Despite that, it still remains a fact that I'd never have got that chance to teach and so improve if I'd not been a NEST. |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:24:19 | Few schools do parent training #eltchat - of course many indifferent but where possible maybe a demo class would help |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:24:42 | I know of a NEST who got a job in CHina, despite being turned down for a CELTA because his LA wasn't up to it #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:24:45 | Even between NESTs accents differ. My northern boss today joked I'd written the wrong transcription for laugh (with long a:) #eltchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:24:46 | @Marisa_C but the ss can relate to the teacher and adapt the same way of learning. It can produce better results #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:24:53 | Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:24:58 | @pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:25:09 | One teacher in our chat said they'd been told to pretend they were a native speaker by their institution! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:25:12 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:25:21 | RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:25:38 | Some, e.g. Jenkins, propose diff terminology, e.g expert language teacher, bilingual user of English. Semantics or viable option? #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:25:45 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:25:56 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist But hard work too!!! Years of studying and hard earned cash to pay for it all #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:26:13 | @pressfuturist Oh I was asked to say that on my first teacher training job!!! #ELTchat - I do related to that |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:26:28 | On the other hand, sometimes NNESTs might not be best models when it comes to pronunciation #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:27:04 | @languageeteach I guess there's a risk that these terms become viewed as "euphemisms" for NNEST? Worth trying, though, I think. #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:27:16 | @languageeteach I thought this was meant to be implemented a couple of yrs ago but the stigma remains #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:27:42 | I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:27:45 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist So sad! #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:27:58 | @SyedaJavaid and some MESTs mightn't have the lg awareness to teach. Such stereotyping makes no sense #eltchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:27:59 | @pressfuturist in some parts of the world, anyone from the west, is termed a native English speaker #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:28:04 | RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT… |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:28:20 | @pressfuturist It's not just the teachers, I think, many learners don't like speaking English because of their accent. #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:28:28 | This may shock some ppl but it''s true #ELTchat they may display a different attitude today and even hire NNESTs but all this v new |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:28:48 | @pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:28:55 | @TESOLacademic @ivangysel In some countries it's at immigration level. No visas are issued to other than certain passport holders #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:29:21 | @Marisa_C couldn't agree more #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:29:21 | @HadaLitim @TESOLacademic @ivangysel Yes. I've seen this. #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:29:21 | @racheldaw18 She is a forthright lady! #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:29:26 | @MarekKiczkowiak i agree, the institution should see if the teacher is competent and qualified, L1 should not be a criteria #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:29:36 | @SyedaJavaid Interesting! #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:30:37 | @HadaLitim How was it going to be implemented do you know? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:30:39 | RT @languageeteach: @pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' … |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:30:48 | I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat |
Nafooh1988 | 2015-03-18T21:31:14 | #ELTchat As a NNS I believe that no one can be the best as a teacher who has been through the same journey |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:31:16 | RT @Marisa_C: I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:31:17 | @languageeteach Yes, finding terms that work for everyone will be difficult - and who defines who's an "expert"? #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:31:22 | @Marisa_C but now BC has a different criteria for native speaker, they look for native like proficiency not L1 #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:31:23 | @Marisa_C wouldn't this be an argument why the BC for one should do more to promote equity in ELT? #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:31:30 | And only after pressure from me #ELTCHAT - OK will stop off chest |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:31:30 | @languageeteach Not sure but I was having this discussion at work and was told in recruitment, the term NEST would appear #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:32:25 | @MarekKiczkowiak fully agree #eltchat it's their role to promote quality in teaching and some of it comes from great NNESTs |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:32:26 | @pressfuturist Yes. A Czech teacher I know managed to get a job in Vietnam by stressing her bilingualism. #eltchat |
racheldaw18 | 2015-03-18T21:32:32 | @SyedaJavaid @Marisa_C That sounds like a positive step forwards for the BC at least... #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:32:48 | @HadaLitim @TESOLacademic Yes, I've noticed this sort of discrimination as well #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:33:03 | @Nafooh1988 its more comforting for the students as well #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:33:12 | @LaraCvanti I hear it isn't in other locations - may be we have mean managers in BC in Greece #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:33:23 | @Marisa_C Probably, Today thy tend to recruit teachers strictly on merit However don't ask me abt managemnt staff. Th ratio differs #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:33:58 | @HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:34:02 | @racheldaw18 @Marisa_C only if all the others follow it too.Specially language schools #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:34:18 | RT @Marisa_C: @HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:34:45 | @languageeteach I agree that it's difficult to think of terminology - NS may be expert at pron, but nowhere near expert at grammar! #eltchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:34:48 | @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond the label. #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:35:03 | RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond … |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:35:11 | @Marisa_C There's definitely a club there - one I probably will never get invited to #eltchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:35:22 | RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond … |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:35:26 | RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond … |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:35:40 | As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:35:48 | @languageeteach @Nafooh1988 It's a matter of basic common sense - recruit on MERIT! #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:35:59 | RT @Marisa_C: As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ?… |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:36:00 | @HadaLitim Moi non plus :-) #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:36:48 | #eltchat So, what can teachers themselves do to change this situation? |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:37:03 | What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:37:04 | So would the endorsement of leading ELT organisations make a difference? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:37:12 | RT @SueAnnan: What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:37:16 | Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well - #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:37:30 | @MarekKiczkowiak yes, but unfortunately, this is a criteria in many jobs #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:37:53 | @Marisa_C Excellent point. #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:38:03 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Maybe we should recognise that having an accent is not a negative thing #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:38:14 | @pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:38:25 | @TeresaBestwick @languageeteach perhaps expert at speaking their regional variety. Does it mean they'd be able to teach it, though? #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:38:34 | RT @TeresaBestwick: @pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:38:43 | My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:38:43 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Just like with native speakers, it just tells you where someone is from #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:39:01 | @ivangysel @Marisa_C @pressfuturist I always make a big point of this with my Ss and give them examples of the diff betwn the two #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:39:09 | RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:39:12 | @ivangysel @pressfuturist I don't have a perfect accent either #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:39:12 | @taskmagic We are in the middle of a chat at the moment. PLease wait until finished before posting to #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:39:25 | @TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:39:32 | @Marisa_C I totally agree. #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:39:36 | @Marisa_C intersting. Never heard of it. Do all schools have to sign it? Does it have anything on NNESTs rights? #eltchat |
Nafooh1988 | 2015-03-18T21:39:45 | @SyedaJavaid - in a sense that she/he is more able to anticipate what are difficult parts in advance and why they are difficult? #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:40:01 | Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:40:19 | @ivangysel That would be a good start. English in the UK has taken a long time to start losing its bias against *regional* accents. #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:40:30 | @languageeteach we do. Or there wouldn't be any on our courses #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:40:49 | @Nafooh1988 yes and in even making a good rapport with the students #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:40:55 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C The BC has a major policy of Equal Opportunities n diversity. Last week they were even celebrating it #eltchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:41:04 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Neither do I, and maybe having NN teacher might help students get over their obsession with their accent #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:41:11 | @MarekKiczkowiak Only with training! :-) @TeresaBestwick @languageeteach #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T21:41:19 | RT @SyedaJavaid: @TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:41:25 | @MarekKiczkowiak An equal opportunities policy covers everything not this specifically - here is ours - http://t.co/lvL8v7kheI #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:41:42 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C whish the BC tried to spread it beyond their organisation. #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:41:49 | @Marisa_C @MarekKiczkowiak we have one too #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:41:51 | @SueAnnan ~That's good. I can't remember it being discussed on my course but that was a long time ago! #ELTchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:42:20 | @Marisa_C Meanwhile, my BBC English Received Pronunciation makes me sound very outdated in the UK! :-) @ivangysel #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:42:35 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C They'll tell you it's not their job.They try to steer clear of political issues to further their mission #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:42:39 | @languageeteach I'm in the middle of one at the mo. Got a Hungarian and a Portuguese trainee #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:43:05 | RT @languageeteach: Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:43:23 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C i think many have. But the problem is,they never say that you're not hired b'coz of nativespeakerism #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:43:36 | @pressfuturist @ivangysel Lol poor you with your Estuary English :-) #ELTchat no wonder |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:43:51 | @TeresaBestwick @MarekKiczkowiak Is there a tendency for NS teachers to teach higher levels? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:44:00 | There should be a unit/module on this in teacher training and ELT management courses #eltchat Does IH have one? |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:44:07 | @Marisa_C @pressfuturist @ivangysel OUch!! #ELTchat LOL |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:44:33 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C Same with IATEFL. Very disappointing to say the least. #eltchat |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:44:41 | @Marisa_C Cheeky! :-D #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:44:52 | @HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:45:06 | RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:45:17 | @SueAnnan That's great! #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:45:52 | @LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a given? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:46:15 | RT @Marisa_C: @LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a … |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:46:20 | @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti No. But it should be #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:46:32 | @pressfuturist just kidding #eltchat :-D |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:47:34 | @SueAnnan @HadaLitim I give CELTA trainees 2 letters - one from a NS and one from a NNS graduate as everyone has insecurities #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:47:55 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Awareness campaigns like that of teflequity n sheer demographics will eventually get the better of this #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:48:13 | @MarekKiczkowiak I think too many vested interests of gov agencies in these organisations - TESOL associated with USIS for example #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:48:28 | @languageeteach @SueAnnan What kinds of letters? #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:48:50 | @HadaLitim And talk about issues of identity/accent/intelligibility when teaching pron for example #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:49:22 | @languageeteach much needed - sounds great! Where do you train? #eltchat |
ManuelHerreraM | 2015-03-18T21:49:34 | RT @SueAnnan: Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:49:36 | @Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have a NNEST SIG #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:49:43 | IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:49:47 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have… |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:49:48 | @HadaLitim @SueAnnan Letters outlining their experience on the course. #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:50:08 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C IATEFL doesn't though. Right? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:50:15 | @MarekKiczkowiak international ? wasn't aware I stand corrected #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:50:16 | @HadaLitim I'm in the UK - east London. Not exotic! #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:50:56 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:51:05 | @Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:51:19 | RT @HadaLitim: @Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:51:34 | Do they ever say that you're not hired because you're not a native?? #ELTchat we need to deal with the diplomacy as well. |
pressfuturist | 2015-03-18T21:51:36 | RT @Marisa_C: IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:51:37 | @LaraCvanti I do too - which is why we need to spread the word - the truth is that there are not enough NESTs to teach all the Ss #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:51:59 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C no. They prefer to be neutral, i.e. accept discrimination is happening, but look the other way #eltchat |
smrefaei | 2015-03-18T21:52:03 | RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT… |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:52:36 | @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti Exactly! And qualified, committed and experienced and even fewer and far between #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:52:47 | @SyedaJavaid i've been told this more than once #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:53:18 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Gentle, regular invitation to the call should eventually bear fruit. Don't give up #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:54:10 | @MarekKiczkowiak i am always told that they have better options but off record they say its because I am a NNEST #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:54:19 | @languageeteach Well it depends which part actually ;) #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:54:23 | Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:54:28 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C I won't. Trust me. #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:54:38 | It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:54:41 | RT @SueAnnan: Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat |
languageeteach | 2015-03-18T21:54:50 | @HadaLitim Not the trendy bit! #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:55:02 | @SueAnnan Exactly! I'd adhere! #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:55:25 | @SueAnnan it's been suggested more than once, to no avail, infortunately #eltchat |
smrefaei | 2015-03-18T21:55:29 | RT @Marisa_C: Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well -… |
elhaameslaami | 2015-03-18T21:55:41 | #ELTchat I think part of the problems lies in the governmental policies especially in the UK or other English speaking countries. |
smrefaei | 2015-03-18T21:55:58 | RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:56:00 | @Marisa_C Good question. #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:56:01 | RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:56:03 | RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:56:08 | @elhaameslaami yep #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T21:56:29 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C Yes, maybe it's due to what language schools THINK students want and will help them sell their courses #ELTchat |
IsmarAlabedi | 2015-03-18T21:56:43 | @pressfuturist I agree with this. Looking back I don't think I was ever taught grammar at school. #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:56:54 | @elhaameslaami AND non English speaking countries. In fact most Asian countries including the Middle East #ELTchat |
SyedaJavaid | 2015-03-18T21:58:05 | I had a great time at #ELTchat hope to be here next week.Thank you everyone for giving me a warm welcome and making me a part of it. |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:58:14 | @ivangysel @Marisa_C Well, why do governments get involved with that? Barring visas bec Ss don't like certain Ts sounds like biz #eltchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T21:58:17 | @HadaLitim @Marisa_C join a FB group, e.g. NNEST, Budapest NNEST #ELTCHAT |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:58:46 | @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C I've joined both already! #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T21:58:56 | @SyedaJavaid you are very welcome. Thanks for your input #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T21:59:19 | @ebefl I doubt it somehow - even on same qualifications u'd get the job #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T21:59:49 | @TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C I don't think schools are the main prob. Givt are. There should be quotas. 1/2 #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T22:00:08 | @TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C Some nNESTS are discriminated in their own countries #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T22:00:15 | got to run. Thanks everyone! Would be more than happy to write up the summary #eltchat |
ebefl | 2015-03-18T22:00:41 | @Marisa_C I meant 'non-human' english speaking teachers...rise of the machines! ;) #ELTchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T22:00:42 | @MarekKiczkowiak Thanks. Hada offered too. Why don't you both do one? #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T22:00:43 | @LaraCvanti of course! Because the myth holds well still - and that myth says that the expertise lies in the hands of the NEST #ELTchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T22:00:47 | @LaraCvanti @Marisa_C The sad reality of too many countries #ELTchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T22:01:09 | @ebefl oops missed that one #ELTchat |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T22:01:31 | @SueAnnan sounds good @HadaLitim what do you think? #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T22:01:43 | An Interesting chat with some new contributors. Great #ELTchat |
michaelegriffin | 2015-03-18T22:01:45 | RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T22:01:45 | @SueAnnan @MarekKiczkowiak I think Marek would be great for this one! I'm happy to give in ;) #eltchat Thanks Marek #ELTchat |
TeresaBestwick | 2015-03-18T22:02:23 | Thanks everyone - great bit of talking shop for a Weds eve #eltchat |
Marisa_C | 2015-03-18T22:02:25 | and NNESTs look good in grass skirts #ELTchat - oh well sorry if this sounds too bitter but it's an attitude which is still around |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T22:02:26 | @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti hopefully, it will be debunked sooner or later #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T22:02:29 | @ebefl @Marisa_C And you strike again! #ELTchat |
ivangysel | 2015-03-18T22:02:33 | @HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 change #eltchat |
HadaLitim | 2015-03-18T22:02:40 | RT @ivangysel: @HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 ch… |
MarekKiczkowiak | 2015-03-18T22:03:03 | @HadaLitim @SueAnnan you were the first one. let's write it together. #eltchat |
SueAnnan | 2015-03-18T22:03:11 | okay @MarekKiczkowiak I'll send you the transcript #ELTchat |