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Should ELT organisations support NNests and stop discrimination against them

Page history last edited by Hada 9 years ago
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SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T20:52:10 Waiting for #ELTchat !!!My first time to be part of it ☺️
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T20:52:37 RT @Marisa_C: What do you think about our topic? Join the #ELTchat discussion in 5 minutes http://t.co/iB6D8xlUq9
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T20:55:56 @SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, welcome! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T20:56:21 RT @racheldaw18: @SyedaJavaid Hi Syeda! I'm a newbie too & will probably mainly be listening in today :) But it's such a great community, w…
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T20:56:44 @racheldaw18 @SyedaJavaid Hola Rachel! Chat in a bit #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T20:57:16 @SyedaJavaid Hello and welcome - it's good to have new faces on #ELTchat - we do welcome new teachers as @racheldaw18 says :-)
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T20:57:26 @SyedaJavaid thank you ☺️Am just using the simple twitter app on my iphone.What is tweetdeck ? #ELTchat
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T20:59:21 @SyedaJavaid Tweetdeck is a way of viewing hashtagged conversations like #ELTchat in different 'channels' - works very well! #ELTchat
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:00:03 @Marisa_C I just use application in a window; I didn't realise there was an extension for Tweetdeck! #somethingneweveryday #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:01:10 evening all #ELTchat
ELTchat 2015-03-18T21:01:21 Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we thought  #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:01:44 @naomishema @rosemerebard Starting our #ELTchat Naomi, joining us at all?
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:01:47 RT @ELTchat: Hello everyone and welcome to #ELTchat - this evening our question is simple but may be the answer more complex than we though…
ELTchat 2015-03-18T21:01:51 Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them  #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:02:03 @SueAnnan Evening Sue! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:02:39 RT @ELTchat: Should leading ELT organisations support NNESTs and stop discrimination against them  #ELTchat @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:02:53 @racheldaw18 yes a tweetdeck extension - allows u to have many different columns for different hashtags faves etc #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:04:08 Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:04:50 @SueAnnan but there is #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:05:14 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat I wish it was, but unfortunately most TAs don't support NNESTs' rights #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:05:17 @pressfuturist @laIoli Any comments you might want to send to #ELTchat from that webinar?
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:05:40 It's interesting when you look for ELT jobs, how sometimes NESTs are specified...but this does seem to have regional tendencies... #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:05:47 I am a NNEST #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:05:54 @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak The chat starts now, please follow us and take part by using the #eltchat hashtag
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:06:29 @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak Of course it's a question. Probably better felt by nNESTs #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:06:29 I would probably not be able to get jobs available to my NEST fresh CELTA graduates #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:07:02 #eltchat Problem can come from clients who request NESTs...I agree with @SueAnnan, native doesn't always mean better
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:07:10 RT @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim #ELTchat A continuing disgrace upon the profession, it really is. Good teachers are good teachers
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:07:17 @SueAnnan yea... and i guess despite my NNEST status #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:07:22 I find I am training more and more NNESTs these days- but they seem to find work easily enough in Europe #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:07:48 @SueAnnan But is there a glass ceiling #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:08:09 @racheldaw18 Yes. In my context - ESOL in the UK - I work with more NNESTs than NESTs! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:08:19 RT @hughdellar #ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I was being rhetorical.Rather than trying to deny the reality of NNSTs experience of discrimination
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:08:35 @HadaLitim That I don't know TBH. We are still fighting sexism at this end #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2015-03-18T21:08:41 evening all #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:08:49 Like @SueAnnan says my trainee NNESTs find loads of jobs in europe mainly summer in the UK #eltchat more difficult all-year round #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:08:50 @hughdellar @ELTchat @MarekKiczkowiak I figured. Please use #ELTchat rather than @ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:08:51 @Marisa_C If @laIoli is online, they’d be better coming from her - her marvellous talk prompted a heartfelt response from teachers. #eltchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:09:19 @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:09:38 @Marisa_C But if @laloli’s offline, I’ll pop back and share some of the key points. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:09:41 @pressfuturist @laIoli hmm was not aware - would have invited her #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:09:56 @SueAnnan True! #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:10:04 @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Definitely. It is a shame that this myth that only NESTs can teach English effectively #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:10:26 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involved #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:11:07 I've met many extremely able NNESTs who have worked at our school. Sometinmes the problem is the students #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:11:26 @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it abt teaching though? Some untrained natives speakers are given pref over nNESTs #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:11:26 I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:11:36 RT @Marisa_C: RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @hughdellar @HadaLitim @ELTchat perhaps the question should be not IF but HOW the TAs should get involve…
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:11:42 That sounds great @pressfuturist - ever the master of conciseness/concision (never know the difference, and I'm a NEST!) #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:12:23 @SueAnnan WHo are the main stake holders when it comes to recruiting decisions? #ELTchat
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:12:47 In my admittedly minimal experience of teaching Eng online, NESTs seem to get far more requests from learners - unjustly. #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:12:51 RT @Marisa_C: I checked the TESOL Intnl Association website earlier - there is nothing related to this topic - searched #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:13:22 @HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:13:38 RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim I work for a private Lang school so...... #ELTchat. We really don't have a problem chez nous #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:13:42 @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar certainly it's often not about choosing the best teacher #eltchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:13:48 @HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception related to NESTs #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:13:56 One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at first. #eltchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:13:59 @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Is it also about students' perceptions? Many want native speakers qualified or not #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:10 @SueAnnan The BC where I work recruits strictly on merit and nNESTs are actually much greater in number #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:14:28 @pressfuturist That is a question of age too. #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:35 @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak To sound like them no doubt?! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:14:53 RT @TeresaBestwick: @HadaLitim I think you're right. Certainly in the state school I work in there's a lot of prestige and perception relat…
TESOLacademic 2015-03-18T21:15:14 Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation?   #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:15:17 RT @pressfuturist: One thing that came up in chat on this subject over the weekend was how little grammatical knowledge many NESTs have at …
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:15:18 #ELTchat For me, as for many NESTs, most of my grasp of grammar came originally from learning another language - in my case Latin!
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:15:23 I think tho that just as many NESTs should not be teachers for lack of qualifications ... there is a flispside to this for NNESTs #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:15:30 @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar do they? How many students? Have you got any evidence? #eltchat
AchilleasK 2015-03-18T21:15:54 RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation?   #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:15:54 is it worse in the countries where the Nests want to work, rather than UK ?  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:16:00 many NNEST who are great re pedagogy are complacent re language skills and poor language models #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:16:06 @SueAnnan #eltchat Reflecting changing ways of learning English in UK classrooms through the generations?
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:16:37 yes, definitely. Teaching is an art & skill and can perfectly executed by anyone.NNST can relate better with the students. #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:16:39 @MarekKiczkowiak @languageeteach @hughdellar Me?  #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:16:49 RT @TESOLacademic: Europe probably more open to NNSTs than other places because of EU discrimination legislation?   #ELTchat > Illegal
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:16:53 @pressfuturist absolutely #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:17:18 @pressfuturist Absolutely! NNESTs often have a better grasp of grammar especially metalanguage #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:27 I'm a French national, speak French fluently but can't teach it! #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:17:30 Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong  wrote about this earlier #eltchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:17:36 @HadaLitim @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Yes. Even if they end up saying 'Wag Wan!"  for example #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:37 RT @Marisa_C: Illegal to discriminate in the EU - @helenstrong  wrote about this earlier #eltchat
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:17:49 I will happily hold my hands up to @pressfuturist 's pt re. NESTs having worse grammar knowledge! Altho I am learning :) #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:17:50 @TeresaBestwick Yes, but they often have outmoded teaching methods #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:17:53 @languageeteach @hughdellar @MarekKiczkowiak Lol! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:18:41 @SueAnnan @TeresaBestwick Really? Surely not if they're properly trained? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:18:52 NESTs have poor formal awareness of morphology and rules NNESTs often poor functional and sociolinguistic awareness #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:19:27 @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:19:30 @Marisa_C So it sounds obvious that they should learn from each other! #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:19:30 @HadaLitim oh yes. I often have EU teachers on my course who come to try out new ideas because they are stuck in the past #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:19:38 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @HadaLitim @languageeteach @hughdellar any reasonable arguments why teaching associations should NOT support NNESTs? #…
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:19:42 Both groups have strengths and weaknesses and can learn off one anothe #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:19:44 It might be a matter of perception - to a lot of learners/parents, having an accent means you do not master the language fully #ELTchat
TESOLacademic 2015-03-18T21:19:45 But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity;  sexuality; gender etc #eltchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:20:02 @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar No evidence alas but remember a group of Ss who complained about a British Chinese teacher #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:20:17 #eltchat (Confession: I taught in Japan for three years w/out teaching qualifications or language-teaching experience. Hired because NEST.)
AchilleasK 2015-03-18T21:20:18 RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity;  sexuality; gender …
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:20:24 @TESOLacademic very true Huw - limited to say just NNEST vs NEST #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:20:26 @SueAnnan @HadaLitim Definitely a big difference between TESOL-trained and mainstream, though methodology of latter improving #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:20:29 @SueAnnan Interesting. In the past or in the exisiting methods of their country? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:20:43 @HadaLitim absolutely #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:20:49 @Marisa_C the NNESTs have better understanding of the grammar and can easily explain to the SLL #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:21:01 @HadaLitim often they way they were taught #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:13 @ivangysel Yes, true, and often they confuse accent and pronunciation #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:21:24 @MarekKiczkowiak @HadaLitim @hughdellar ...because they thought he wasn't 'British' enough.This was a few yrs though #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:21:26 @SyedaJavaid the problem is the 'explaining' bit very often #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:21:30 @ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:40 @pressfuturist OUch! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:21:56 RT @TESOLacademic: But important to note discrimination in #elt not restricted to NNSTs in many parts. Also: ethnicity;  sexuality; gender …
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:22:25 @TESOLacademic So true, there is a big ethnicity issue here #eltchat
TESOLacademic 2015-03-18T21:22:29 @ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners.  #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:22:33 #ELTchat I consequently began teaching as a very poor teacher. But I like to think that I worked hard & improved, like many NESTs & NNESTs.
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:22:35 One of our fulltime teachers is Italian- with a strong accent. We tease him, but he's a good teacher and sts love him #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:22:58 @pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:23:02 RT @TESOLacademic: @ivangysel: Yes discrimination is often generated by parents & learners.  #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:23:06 @TESOLacademic I completely agree, sometimes "native" has a different connotation not only L1 #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:23:08 @TESOLacademic Agreed #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:23:23 RT @pressfuturist: @ivangysel Yes; many teachers in our chat said that their accents made them felt less confident in their teaching. #eltc…
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:23:32 RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist @ivangysel I get this a lot from trainee NNESTs but once done with training they dont work on accent #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:23:33 #ELTchat Despite that, it still remains a fact that I'd never have got that chance to teach and so improve if I'd not been a NEST.
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:24:19 Few schools do parent training #eltchat - of course many indifferent but where possible maybe a demo class would help
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:24:42 I know of a NEST who got a job in CHina, despite being turned down for a CELTA because his LA wasn't up to it #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:24:45 Even between NESTs accents differ. My northern boss today joked I'd written the wrong transcription for laugh (with long a:) #eltchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:24:46 @Marisa_C but the ss can relate to the teacher and adapt the same way of learning. It can produce better results #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:24:53 Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:24:58 @pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:25:09 One teacher in our chat said they'd been told to pretend they were a native speaker by their institution! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:12 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:21 RT @Marisa_C: @pressfuturist we all have some blessings to count about how we got to where we are :-) #eltchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:25:38 Some, e.g. Jenkins, propose diff terminology, e.g expert language teacher, bilingual user of English. Semantics or viable option? #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:25:45 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:25:56 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist But hard work too!!! Years of studying and hard earned cash to pay for it all #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:26:13 @pressfuturist Oh I was asked to say that on my first teacher training job!!! #ELTchat - I do related to that
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:26:28 On the other hand, sometimes NNESTs might not be best models when it comes to pronunciation #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:27:04 @languageeteach I guess there's a risk that these terms become viewed as "euphemisms" for NNEST? Worth trying, though, I think. #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:27:16 @languageeteach I thought this was meant to be implemented a couple of yrs ago but the stigma remains #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:27:42 I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:27:45 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist So sad! #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:27:58 @SyedaJavaid and some MESTs mightn't have the lg awareness  to teach. Such stereotyping makes no sense #eltchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:27:59 @pressfuturist in some parts of the world, anyone from the west, is termed a native English speaker #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:28:04 RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT…
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:28:20 @pressfuturist It's not just the teachers, I think, many learners don't like speaking English because of their accent. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:28:28 This may shock some ppl but it''s true #ELTchat they may display a different attitude today and even hire NNESTs but all this v new
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:28:48 @pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:28:55 @TESOLacademic @ivangysel In some countries it's at immigration level. No visas are issued to other than certain passport holders #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:29:21 @Marisa_C couldn't agree more #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:29:21 @HadaLitim @TESOLacademic @ivangysel Yes. I've seen this. #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:29:21 @racheldaw18 She is a forthright lady! #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:29:26 @MarekKiczkowiak i agree, the institution should see if the teacher is competent and qualified, L1 should not be a criteria #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:29:36 @SyedaJavaid Interesting! #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:30:37 @HadaLitim How was it going to be implemented do you know? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:30:39 RT @languageeteach: @pressfuturist Good point. I wrote my MA dissertation on this. The NNESTs hated most of the terms except 'expert user' …
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:30:48 I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat
Nafooh1988 2015-03-18T21:31:14 #ELTchat  As a NNS I believe that no one can be the best as a teacher who has been through the same journey
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:31:16 RT @Marisa_C: I have produced HUNDREDS of great NNESTs - the local BC has only hire 4 in the last 25 yrs #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:31:17 @languageeteach Yes, finding terms that work for everyone will be difficult - and who defines who's an "expert"? #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:31:22 @Marisa_C but now BC has a different criteria for native speaker, they look for native like proficiency not L1 #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:31:23 @Marisa_C wouldn't this be an argument why the BC for one should do more to promote equity in ELT? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:31:30 And only after pressure from me #ELTCHAT - OK will stop off chest
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:31:30 @languageeteach Not sure but I was having this discussion at work and was told in recruitment, the term NEST would appear #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:32:25 @MarekKiczkowiak fully agree #eltchat it's their role to promote quality in teaching and some of it comes from great NNESTs
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:32:26 @pressfuturist Yes. A Czech teacher I know managed to get a job in Vietnam by stressing her bilingualism. #eltchat
racheldaw18 2015-03-18T21:32:32 @SyedaJavaid @Marisa_C That sounds like a positive step forwards for the BC at least...  #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:32:48 @HadaLitim @TESOLacademic  Yes, I've noticed this sort of discrimination as well #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:33:03 @Nafooh1988 its more comforting for the students  as well #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:33:12 @LaraCvanti I hear it isn't in other locations - may be we have mean managers in BC in Greece #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:33:23 @Marisa_C Probably, Today thy tend to recruit teachers strictly on merit However don't ask me abt managemnt staff. Th ratio differs #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:33:58 @HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:34:02 @racheldaw18 @Marisa_C only if all the others follow it too.Specially language schools #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:34:18 RT @Marisa_C: @HadaLitim the cushy jobs go to the old boys only darling #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:34:45 @languageeteach I agree that it's difficult to think of terminology - NS may be expert at pron, but nowhere near expert at grammar! #eltchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:34:48 @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond the label. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:35:03 RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:11 @Marisa_C There's definitely a club there - one I probably will never get invited to #eltchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:35:22 RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:26 RT @languageeteach: @Nafooh1988 I know good & bad 'native' and 'non-native' Ts. It's down to personality, empathy, skills etc. Look beyond …
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:35:40 As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:48 @languageeteach @Nafooh1988 It's a matter of basic common sense - recruit on MERIT! #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:35:59 RT @Marisa_C: As a Cambridge Authorised Centre I had to sign an Equal Opportunities Policy Document - shouldn't ALL schools be doing that ?…
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:36:00 @HadaLitim Moi non plus :-) #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:36:48 #eltchat So, what can teachers themselves do to change this situation?
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:37:03 What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:37:04 So would the endorsement of leading ELT organisations make a difference? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:37:12 RT @SueAnnan: What can WE do to help things change? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:37:16 Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well - #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:37:30 @MarekKiczkowiak yes, but unfortunately, this is a criteria in many jobs #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:37:53 @Marisa_C Excellent point. #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:38:03 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Maybe we should recognise that having an accent is not a negative thing #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:38:14 @pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:38:25 @TeresaBestwick @languageeteach perhaps expert at speaking their regional variety. Does it mean they'd be able to teach it, though? #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:38:34 RT @TeresaBestwick: @pressfuturist Support teachers in mainstream schools - share the TEFL methodology and affect! #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:38:43 My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:38:43 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Just like with native speakers, it just tells you where someone is from #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:39:01 @ivangysel @Marisa_C @pressfuturist  I always make a big point of this with my Ss and give them examples of the diff betwn the two #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:39:09 RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:39:12 @ivangysel @pressfuturist I don't have a perfect accent either #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:39:12 @taskmagic We are in the middle of a chat at the moment. PLease wait until finished before posting to #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:39:25 @TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:39:32 @Marisa_C I totally agree. #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:39:36 @Marisa_C intersting. Never heard of it. Do all schools have to sign it? Does it have anything on NNESTs rights? #eltchat
Nafooh1988 2015-03-18T21:39:45 @SyedaJavaid - in a sense that she/he is more able to anticipate what are difficult parts in advance and why they are difficult? #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:40:01 Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:40:19 @ivangysel That would be a good start. English in the UK has taken a long time to start losing its bias against *regional* accents. #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:40:30 @languageeteach we do. Or there wouldn't be any on our courses #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:40:49 @Nafooh1988 yes and in even making a good rapport with the students #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:40:55 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C The BC has a major policy of Equal Opportunities n diversity. Last week they were even celebrating it #eltchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:41:04 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist Neither do I, and maybe having NN teacher might help students get over their obsession with their accent #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:41:11 @MarekKiczkowiak Only with training! :-) @TeresaBestwick @languageeteach #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T21:41:19 RT @SyedaJavaid: @TeresaBestwick @pressfuturist and help raise awareness regarding the criteria of a good language teacher #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:41:25 @MarekKiczkowiak An equal opportunities policy covers everything not this specifically - here is ours - http://t.co/lvL8v7kheI #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:41:42 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C whish the BC tried to spread it beyond their organisation. #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:41:49 @Marisa_C @MarekKiczkowiak  we have one too #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:41:51 @SueAnnan ~That's good. I can't remember it being discussed on my course but that was a long time ago! #ELTchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:42:20 @Marisa_C Meanwhile, my BBC English Received Pronunciation makes me sound very outdated in the UK! :-) @ivangysel #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:42:35 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C They'll tell you it's not their job.They try to steer clear of political issues to further their mission #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:42:39 @languageeteach I'm in the middle of one at the mo. Got a Hungarian and a Portuguese trainee #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:43:05 RT @languageeteach: Teacher training centres should broach the issue as well, I think #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:43:23 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C i think many have. But the problem is,they never say that you're not hired b'coz of nativespeakerism #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:43:36 @pressfuturist @ivangysel Lol poor you with your Estuary English :-) #ELTchat no wonder
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:43:51 @TeresaBestwick @MarekKiczkowiak Is there a tendency for NS teachers to teach higher levels? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:44:00 There should be a unit/module on this in teacher training and ELT management courses #eltchat Does IH have one?
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:44:07 @Marisa_C @pressfuturist @ivangysel OUch!! #ELTchat LOL
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:44:33 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C Same with IATEFL. Very disappointing to say the least. #eltchat
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:44:41 @Marisa_C Cheeky! :-D #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:44:52 @HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:45:06 RT @SueAnnan: @HadaLitim there is a session on mine, where we look at this very issue #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:45:17 @SueAnnan That's great! #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:45:52 @LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a given? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:46:15 RT @Marisa_C: @LaraCvanti sb who has the personal qualities, background knowledge & technical know-how to do their job well - isn't that a …
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:46:20 @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti No. But it should be #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:46:32 @pressfuturist just kidding #eltchat :-D
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:47:34 @SueAnnan @HadaLitim I give CELTA trainees 2 letters - one from a NS and one from a NNS graduate as everyone has insecurities #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:47:55 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Awareness campaigns like that of teflequity n sheer demographics will eventually get the better of this #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:48:13 @MarekKiczkowiak I think too many vested interests of gov agencies in these organisations - TESOL associated with USIS for example #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:48:28 @languageeteach @SueAnnan What kinds of letters? #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:48:50 @HadaLitim And talk about issues of identity/accent/intelligibility when teaching pron for example #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:49:22 @languageeteach much needed - sounds great! Where do you train? #eltchat
ManuelHerreraM 2015-03-18T21:49:34 RT @SueAnnan: Most of my PLN are NNests.Many of them are better qualified than me. There shouldnt be an issue #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:49:36 @Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have a NNEST SIG #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:49:43 IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:49:47 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: @Marisa_C but TESOL does support NNEST rights actively. They issued a public statement against discrimination and have…
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:49:48 @HadaLitim @SueAnnan Letters outlining their experience on the course. #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:50:08 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C IATEFL doesn't though. Right? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:50:15 @MarekKiczkowiak international ? wasn't aware I stand corrected #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:50:16 @HadaLitim I'm in the UK - east London. Not exotic! #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:50:56 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:51:05 @Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:51:19 RT @HadaLitim: @Marisa_C It's the same where I work #ELTchat The main trouble is with international recruitment I think #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:51:34 Do they ever say that you're not hired because you're not a native?? #ELTchat we need to deal with the diplomacy as well.
pressfuturist 2015-03-18T21:51:36 RT @Marisa_C: IN all my experience of observing ss with Ts I have never seen a great NNEST NOT be appreciated by the Ss #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:51:37 @LaraCvanti I do too - which is why we need to spread the word - the truth is that there are not enough NESTs to teach all the Ss #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:51:59 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C no. They prefer to be neutral, i.e. accept discrimination is happening, but look the other way #eltchat
smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:52:03 RT @Marisa_C: I believe that the BC and their very pro-British attitude of the past has a lot to do with much of what is happening now #ELT…
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:52:36 @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti Exactly! And qualified, committed and experienced and even fewer and far between #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:52:47 @SyedaJavaid i've been told this more than once #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:53:18 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C Gentle, regular invitation to the call should eventually bear fruit. Don't give up #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:54:10 @MarekKiczkowiak i am always told that they have better options but off record they say its because I am a NNEST #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:54:19 @languageeteach Well it depends which part actually ;) #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:54:23 Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:54:28 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C I won't. Trust me. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:54:38 It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:54:41 RT @SueAnnan: Perhaps someone could set up a NNEST sig for IATEFL #ELTchat
languageeteach 2015-03-18T21:54:50 @HadaLitim Not the trendy bit! #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:55:02 @SueAnnan Exactly! I'd adhere! #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:55:25 @SueAnnan it's been suggested more than once, to no avail, infortunately #eltchat
smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:55:29 RT @Marisa_C: Anyway - this is not intended to scare people away from this discussion we need however to set standards for the Ts as well -…
elhaameslaami 2015-03-18T21:55:41 #ELTchat I think part of the problems lies in the governmental policies especially in the UK or other English speaking countries.
smrefaei 2015-03-18T21:55:58 RT @Marisa_C: My own experience is that a strong candidate for the job who has good interpersonal skills will usually get the job #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:00 @Marisa_C Good question. #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:56:01 RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:03 RT @Marisa_C: It's the digital era - how can we turn this to the advantage of the NNEST professional ? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:56:08 @elhaameslaami yep #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T21:56:29 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C Yes, maybe it's due to what language schools THINK students want and will help them sell their courses #ELTchat
IsmarAlabedi 2015-03-18T21:56:43 @pressfuturist I agree with this. Looking back I don't think I was ever taught grammar at school. #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:56:54 @elhaameslaami AND non English speaking countries. In fact most Asian countries including the Middle East #ELTchat
SyedaJavaid 2015-03-18T21:58:05 I had a great time at #ELTchat hope to be here next week.Thank you everyone for giving me a warm welcome and making me a part of it.
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:58:14 @ivangysel @Marisa_C Well, why do governments get involved with that? Barring visas bec Ss don't like certain Ts sounds like biz #eltchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T21:58:17 @HadaLitim @Marisa_C join a FB group, e.g. NNEST, Budapest NNEST #ELTCHAT
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:58:46 @MarekKiczkowiak @Marisa_C I've joined both already! #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T21:58:56 @SyedaJavaid you are very welcome. Thanks for your input #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T21:59:19 @ebefl I doubt it somehow - even on same qualifications u'd get the job #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T21:59:49 @TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C I don't think schools are the main prob. Givt are. There should be quotas. 1/2 #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:00:08 @TeresaBestwick @ivangysel @Marisa_C Some nNESTS are discriminated in their own countries #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T22:00:15 got to run. Thanks everyone! Would be more than happy to write up the summary #eltchat
ebefl 2015-03-18T22:00:41 @Marisa_C I meant 'non-human' english speaking teachers...rise of the machines! ;) #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T22:00:42 @MarekKiczkowiak Thanks. Hada offered too. Why don't you both do one? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:00:43 @LaraCvanti of course! Because the myth holds well still - and that myth says that the expertise lies in the hands of the NEST #ELTchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:00:47 @LaraCvanti @Marisa_C The sad reality of too many countries #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:01:09 @ebefl oops missed that one #ELTchat
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T22:01:31 @SueAnnan sounds good @HadaLitim what do you think? #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T22:01:43 An Interesting chat with some new contributors. Great #ELTchat
michaelegriffin 2015-03-18T22:01:45 RT @MarekKiczkowiak: Shouldn't we be finally speaking about good teachers rather than focusing on the teacher's passport? #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:01:45 @SueAnnan @MarekKiczkowiak I think Marek would be great for this one! I'm happy to give in ;) #eltchat Thanks Marek #ELTchat
TeresaBestwick 2015-03-18T22:02:23 Thanks everyone - great bit of talking shop for a Weds eve #eltchat
Marisa_C 2015-03-18T22:02:25 and NNESTs look good in grass skirts #ELTchat  - oh well sorry if this sounds too bitter but it's an attitude which is still around
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T22:02:26 @Marisa_C @LaraCvanti hopefully, it will be debunked sooner or later #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:02:29 @ebefl @Marisa_C And you strike again! #ELTchat
ivangysel 2015-03-18T22:02:33 @HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 change #eltchat
HadaLitim 2015-03-18T22:02:40 RT @ivangysel: @HadaLitim @TeresaBestwick @Marisa_C I think it's probably a very complicated comb. of factors which makes it difficult 2 ch…
MarekKiczkowiak 2015-03-18T22:03:03 @HadaLitim @SueAnnan you were the first one. let's write it together. #eltchat
SueAnnan 2015-03-18T22:03:11 okay @MarekKiczkowiak  I'll send you the transcript #ELTchat

 

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