| 
  • If you are citizen of an European Union member nation, you may not use this service unless you are at least 16 years old.

  • You already know Dokkio is an AI-powered assistant to organize & manage your digital files & messages. Very soon, Dokkio will support Outlook as well as One Drive. Check it out today!

View
 

How to teach grammar at Zero Beginner Level

Page history last edited by Marisa Constantinides 10 years, 4 months ago

 

Transcript of #ELTchat on 20/11/2013 How to teach grammar to zero beginners.xlsx

 

 

username utc date status
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 11:56 #eltchat Hello everyone - our first topic today is "Teaching Grammar at (zero) beginner level" - Join us in a couple of minutes pls RT
ELTchat 11/20/2013 11:59 RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat Hello everyone - our first topic today is "Teaching Grammar at (zero) beginner level" - Join us in a couple of mins
Natashetta 11/20/2013 12:00 RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat Hello everyone - our first topic today is "Teaching Grammar at (zero) beginner level" - Join us in a couple of minut…
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:02 RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat Hello everyone - our first topic today is "Teaching Grammar at (zero) beginner level" - Join us in a couple of minut…
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:03 Hello and welcome to #ELTchat - anyone online to talk about teaching grammar to beginners?
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:04 @Marisa_C Present and correct :-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:05 @esolcourses Hi Sue - hoping you can lend your experienced hand with this #ELTchat - @avaloslori1 HI Lori hope you can stay awake
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:05 #eltchat I'm here and waiting to go.  :)
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:06 @leedsacademy Welcome :-) is this your first #eltchat  ? Remember to include the hashtag in all ur tweets @avaloslori1
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:06 @Marisa_C #eltchat How about using lots of visuals and context
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:06 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat How about using lots of visuals and context > Great first suggestion
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:06 @Marisa_C @avaloslori1 Hi back at you! #ELTchat. As my personal views on this are a tad unconventional, I'll let someone else start... ;-)
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:07 #eltchat yes my first as an active participant. excited to be here.
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:07 @esolcourses We 'd be interested to know your unconventional views and talk about them :-) #eltchat
AmyDeLong 11/20/2013 12:08 @Marisa_C RE Grammar to beginners: I like using cards with words/pictures for Ss to make the form on their desk. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:08 How about diagrams, video clips, animations (e,g goanimate) and objects ? #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:08 @Marisa_C @esolcourses #eltchat What do you mean by unconventional?
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:09 @Marisa_C Ha ha! OK then. My personal view re: teaching grammar to beginners at zero level is: don't. Or at least not explicitly.. #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:10 @Marisa_C IMO learners need chunks of high frequency vocabulary before they are ready to get to grips with explicit grammar forms #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:10 @esolcourses  Me too. I agree with you. #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:10 @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:10 @esolcourses not unconventional - it's one of the approaches many colleagues opt for - #eltchat - you seem to be waxing lexical :-)
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:12 @Marisa_C LOL! Yes, I have been known to do that on occasion ;-) At low beginner level though I think it's quite important... #ELTchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:12 I do think that students should know what a verb is though. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:13 Flipside vies (for adults only, mind) suggests 'explain rule 1st briefly & clearly then move to contextualised mean/ful practice #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:13 @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat In a way, even grammatical items are lexical at beginner level - his, her, our - all lexical items, too
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:13 @OUPELTGlobal @Marisa_C expect you are probably right on that. I think it's worth emphasising though, nevertheless #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:14 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat In a way, even grammatical items are lexical at beginner level - his, her, our - all lexi…
JoHart 11/20/2013 12:14 Just abt to go to sleep but I agree @esolcourses @Marisa_C but I am lit rather than lang & so functional more imptnt than elegant #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:14 Big difference between adults and young learners obviously #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:14 @esolcourses for YLs no question that no grammar is the best approach #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:14 @leedsacademy #eltchat Can students use verbs without knowing the term 'verb'?
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:15 @Marisa_C #eltchat Adults would appreciate, but what if not a monolingual class?
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:15 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat Adults would appreciate, but what if not a monolingual class? > true - google translate helps
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:16 @OUPELTGlobal Yes, but I think it's helpful for them to be able to categorize them, realise they can be substituted for each other. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:16 What about using grammatical terminilogy - metalanguage - do you think a good idea? #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:17 IMO, adult beginners often need chunks of functional language that use more complex grammar forms than it's conventional to cover.. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:18 e.g. clause, subordination, conditionals, hypothetical meaning etc #eltchat
ddeubel 11/20/2013 12:18 Teaching conversation is teaching grammar: remember this classic series Sue? http://t.co/5JRU9SUlOX  #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:19 @esolcourses agreed - but is it possible to give them chunks and holophrases/ functional listings PLUS check grammar awareness? #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:19 @Marisa_C In a word, no. I think that would just confuse learners. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:20 one could argue that grammar is generative where functions and phrases aren't #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:20 @Marisa_C #eltchat I'm not sure metalanguage is appropriate at beginner level - at least not metalang in Engl
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:20 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat I'm not sure metalanguage is appropriate at beginner level - at least not metalang in Engl > agreed
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:21 But checking understanding that Ss understand meaning or which forms are regular or which order they come into is also grammar #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:21 @Marisa_C in some contexts, yes. I think it depends. IME uncovering grammar at a leisurely pace often tends to work better #ELTchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:22 RT @Marisa_C: RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat I'm not sure metalanguage is appropriate at beginner level - at least not metalang in En…
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:22 All I am saying is that our discussion is not about using or not using the term grammar or terminology but about HOW to do it well #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:23 @Marisa_C #eltchat Agree. Functional phrases are chunks to memorise. If veer from exact phrase, where to go next?
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:24 @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, so lots of context and practice using it
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:25 From your comments, it looks like you would go for an inductive non explicit approach with TL in context and lots of opps for use #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:25 @OUPELTGlobal That's why I think if Ss know what a verb is for example, they can them modify the functions a little to suit. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:26 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, so lots of context and practice using it
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:27 what about student expectations? lots of Ss want explicit grammar. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:27 RT @leedsacademy: what about student expectations? lots of Ss want explicit grammar. #eltchat > True -Ts talk to Ss abt best way 2 this end?
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:28 @OUPELTGlobal @Marisa_C the way I tend to do it is to build on simple chunks & introduce more words to form more complex sentences #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:28 @leedsacademy #eltchat So, lots of transformations: eg: I ___ running - sts input like/ don't like/ love/ hate/ etc
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:28 Sadly, also lots of YL parents have expectations of their toddlers learning  rules and stuff - parent education needed!!!! #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:29 @Marisa_C @leedsacademy #eltchat Need for learner training? Choices for presentation?
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:30 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C @leedsacademy #eltchat Need for learner training? Choices for presentation? > absolutely - do this early on 2
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:31 @OUPELTGlobal Exactly.Or change: dancing, singing. I think substitution tables help beginners form sentences that aren't formulaic #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:31 @leedsacademy Generally speaking I think you may be right, though I I'm not sure about zero beginner level... #ELTchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:31 A  good idea is to fill them up with lots of rules then ask them to communicate - when they CAN"T, a gd moment to discuss best way #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:31 @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Do you create your own materials for this or use coursebooks?
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:32 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Do you create your own materials for this or use coursebooks?> Personally my own
avaloslori1 11/20/2013 12:32 #ELTchat have a great week, thanks! Love the ideas here.
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:33 @esolcourses maybe not on their first day :) but I really think we need to give them tools to make language not parrot it #eltchat
RainDeer3 11/20/2013 12:33 8 Educational Apps To Create Digital Portfolios http://t.co/ENhLHlJSZk #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:34 @leedsacademy @esolcourses #eltchat Yes, so personalisation of the structures so they can own them and manipulate
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:34 Might help to ask Ss before they even start a course how they think they will learn best and how they expect to learn grammar #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:34 @leedsacademy agree. I'm not suggesting we  teach them to parrot it, but zero beginners need functional #English first and foremost #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:35 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @leedsacademy #eltchat Yes, so personalisation of the structures so they can own them and manipulate ] absolutely
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:36 @OUPELTGlobal @leedsacademy Yes, I think personalisation at low beginner level is very important. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:36 @esolcourses  danger of the mythical grammarless pidgin creature afloat there - #eltchat Ss need to observe - hypothesize - experiment
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:37 @esolcourses So even if you begin with chunks - perhaps during feedback and error correction another doorway to grammar #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:38 @esolcourses sorry, didn't mean to sound harsh. :) from my learning experience, loved being able to use what I learnt + experiment #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:38 @Marisa_C  Ha Ha! mythical grammarless pidgin creature? ;-) I think maybe we are talking at cross purposes :-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:39 @esolcourses I don't think so - creature exists in the literature and the grand debate abt whther or not to teach grammar #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:39 @leedsacademy No worries! You didn't :-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:39 If you think about it, every approach created to date is in response to whether or not to teach grammar #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:41 RT @Marisa_C:  So even if you begin with chunks - perhaps during feedback and error correction another doorway to grammar #eltchat ] agree
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:41 @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Great image! I think we all agree that grammatical forms are important, though not impt to teach explicitly?
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:41 MT @OUPELTGlobal: #eltchat Great image! I think we all agree that grammatical forms are important, though not impt to teach explicitly?] Yes
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:42 @OUPELTGlobal   yes I think that's the generar drift - although the odd analytical learner can be give a grammar book orgy!!! :-) #eltchat
HanaTicha 11/20/2013 12:42 @Marisa_C Agree! But if kids were to create coursebooks, they wouldn't incude grammar. That's what we should consider with YL. #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:42 @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, so inductive rather than deductive approach
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:43 #eltchat I think important not to be afraid of teaching some grammar explicitly. Ss have beginner English not beginner brains.
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:43 @HanaTicha yes all agree on this re YLs non analytical unable to grasp abstractions etc #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:43 @leedsacademy important point #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:44 RT @leedsacademy: #eltchat I think important not to be afraid of teaching some grammar explicitly. Ss have beginner English not beginner br…
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:44 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, so inductive rather than deductive approach] yes.
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:45 @leedsacademy but much depends on L1 and literacy levels too #eltchat have taught 0 beginners who unable to deal with grammar concepts
face_english 11/20/2013 12:45 @Marisa_C What's the topic today? #eltchat
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:45 #eltchat an implicit approach (functions) with some explicit language focus can help both analytical and non-analytical learners
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:45 @face_english teaching grammar to complete beginners #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:46 @leedsacademy #eltchat That's a very good point. In some contexts, esp where Tchr can use the L1, it can be helpful.
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:46 RT @leedsacademy: #eltchat an implicit approach (functions) with some explicit language focus can help both analytical and non-analytical l…
HanaTicha 11/20/2013 12:46 @Marisa_C Moreover, YL don't need to talk about all aspects of reality- past, future. They'll do with present continous for a while #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:46 @leedsacademy Teach implicitly summarize explicitly? #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:47 MT @Marisa_C much depends on L1 and literacy levels too #eltchat have taught 0 beginners who unable to deal with grammar concepts ] ditto
gtorrado 11/20/2013 12:47 RT @leedsacademy: #eltchat I think important not to be afraid of teaching some grammar explicitly. Ss have beginner English not beginner br…
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:47 What specific activities would you suggest as suited to acquisition type contexts for learning grammatical forms at beginner level #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:47 @Marisa_C @leedsacademy #eltchat Yes, especially if they don't know gram in their L1 or it's different. Analysing diffs can be useful
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:48 @Marisa_C I think it provides for both styles.#eltchat
CarlosMontoro 11/20/2013 12:48 RT @leedsacademy: #eltchat I think important not to be afraid of teaching some grammar explicitly. Ss have beginner English not beginner br…
VeerleGrauwmans 11/20/2013 12:49 If they learn English grammar as an foreign languague, I think you could easily translate the terms into their native language #ELTchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:49 @Marisa_C #eltchat video - watch and listen to provide context. Role play
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:50 @OUPELTGlobal video to roleplay - better than just audio #eltchat yes
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:51 what about more trad paper based recognition/awareness activs e.g. a scrambled sentence - a cloze - a gapped dialog ? #eltchat
face_english 11/20/2013 12:51 Context should always be the focus, right? #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:51 @VeerleGrauwmans #eltchat Maybe at the end of the lesson, explanations in the L1?
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:52 Lots of chants/drills to see which words can be substituted. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:52 RT @face_english: Context should always be the focus, right? #eltchat > yes this necessary
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:52 RT @leedsacademy: Lots of chants/drills to see which words can be substituted. #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:52 RT @Marisa_C: RT @face_english: Context should always be the focus, right? #eltchat > yes this necessary
esolcourses 11/20/2013 12:52 RT @leedsacademy: Lots of chants/drills to see which words can be substituted. #eltchat
HanaTicha 11/20/2013 12:52 @Marisa_C Description of visuals (photos, magazine pictures, people in the class). Things happening right now, right here. #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:53 @HanaTicha sure but we need ideas for other areas of grammar too not just the present progressive :-) #eltchat
face_english 11/20/2013 12:53 http://t.co/cQ4ErTW7jk #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:54 @Marisa_C @leedsacademy #eltchat Chants work with ALL ages as long as not overdone. Bring back Jazz Chants!
leedsacademy 11/20/2013 12:54 form sentences with one word from each box: sub aux vb obj I can play football I don't watch tv etc.  #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:54 Mingling activities such as 'find sb who..." for a variety of tenses or modals #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:56 One of the probs with this level is that they cannot really do highly complex free activs such as problem solving etc #eltchat
HanaTicha 11/20/2013 12:56 @Marisa_C Oh, you can practise loads of things when describing pictures :-) #eltchat has got a brush, has painted, is painting, is about to
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:57 @Marisa_C @HanaTicha #eltchat contextualised dialogues to read/ memorise / change
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:57 @HanaTicha Application drills then :-) yes agree #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:58 @OUPELTGlobal the disappearing dialogue or 'vanishing technique" is a lot of fun too for memorising dialog #eltchat
face_english 11/20/2013 12:58 http://t.co/vX9DOUIDv4 #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 11/20/2013 12:58 @Marisa_C #eltchat Maybe - at basic level.
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 12:59 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C #eltchat Maybe - at basic level.> possibly.. but well scaffolded and prepped
HanaTicha 11/20/2013 12:59 @Marisa_C Exactly. I'm off for another lesson to teach grammar :-) Thanks for the chat. Hope to see you in the evening. #eltchat
esolcourses 11/20/2013 13:00 RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Marisa_C @leedsacademy #eltchat Chants work with ALL ages as long as not overdone. Bring back Jazz Chants!
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 13:00 Time has flown by - is there anyone out there who would just love to write a summary of this #eltchat ? Looking for volunteer writers
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 13:02 Thank you all for joining and sharing your ideas - if you would like to volunteer and write this summary please contact me #eltchat
Marisa_C 11/20/2013 13:02 RT @face_english: http://t.co/TpXHWBye8F #eltchat > nice presentation thanks for sharing
face_english 11/20/2013 13:02 battleships: using a picture grid screencast.com/t/1pFXmFdC #eltchat

 

Comments (0)

You don't have permission to comment on this page.