| username |
local date |
status |
| ELTchat |
10/16/2013 10:02:39 PM |
Welcome to #eltchat on Freer practice: ways of really getting sts to use target lang with mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden & @theteacherjames |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:02:42 PM |
It's 11pm here, and I'm around for an #eltchat for the first time in a very long time. Let's see if I can make it to the end... ;) |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:03:00 PM |
Hello again ! #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:03:27 PM |
Good afternoon everyone! #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:04:13 PM |
@rapple18 I think this is your topic isn't it Rachel? #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:04:56 PM |
Looking forward to #ELTchat, haven't participated or lurked since forever. |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:05:03 PM |
@sandymillin good commitment! #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:06:20 PM |
So then freer practice #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:06:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat yes, so perhaps how we can demo / note down / quantify / evaluate sts' success in using TL in speaking tasks |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:06:32 PM |
RT @rapple18: @Shaunwilden #eltchat yes, so perhaps how we can demo / note down / quantify / evaluate sts' success in using TL in speaking … |
| uniquelanguages |
10/16/2013 8:06:46 PM |
Hi. Shall dip in and out of #eltchat and might even contribute but hoping to learn. |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:07:10 PM |
So how much freer practice do you do in your lessons? Do you have much time for it? #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:07:28 PM |
I guess we are all happy with the term 'freer practice'? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:07:34 PM |
Hi all sorry to be late - good to see some familiar faces back on #Eltchat :-) |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:07:34 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat but we could also throw out ideas for tasks for getting sts using TL ... ? |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:07:37 PM |
#eltchat one way of course is grab Ss vocab notebooks and play games with their words |
| UDP_Mx |
10/16/2013 8:08:16 PM |
RT @ELTchat: Join us for an #ELTChat on Freer practice: ways of really getting sts to use target language, in 15 mins. |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:08:23 PM |
@theteacherjames #eltchat One of my concerns.. smtms I think we don't make enough time, and esp not for valid FB after |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:08:30 PM |
#eltchat hi all but lurking :/ |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:08:52 PM |
@theteacherjames Trying hard to avoid that final end-of-the-lesson oops-we-didn't-get-to-it feeling by reducing controlled practice #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:08:55 PM |
Freer practice is good but ss need to be provided with vocab and funct lang to be able to practise freely #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:09:00 PM |
@rapple18 @theteacherjames yes i think in many cases the feedback gets overlooked #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:09:03 PM |
@theteacherjames #eltchat Doesn't always work though! |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:09:03 PM |
@rapple18 often see this happen in classes - fb time not allowed for #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:09:09 PM |
@Shaunwilden I guess 'freer' has a fairly wide scope #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:09:10 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @theteacherjames Trying hard to avoid that final end-of-the-lesson oops-we-didn't-get-to-it feeling by reducing controlled… |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:09:50 PM |
@jo_sayers Yes it can mean different things to different teachers #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:09:51 PM |
@rapple18 I have the opposite problem, I could easily spend the whole class in conversation & have to remember the objectives! #ELTchat |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:10:05 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat Hello! I'm nominally here, for once… brain is mush though….. :) |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:10:15 PM |
@jo_sayers Talking about degrees of freedom #eltchat and what we would call free for beginners highly controlled for later #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:10:31 PM |
@Shaunwilden @theteacherjames FB on speaking: perhaps that's a subtopic for later in this hour? I'd be v interested .. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:10:46 PM |
@LizziePinard mine too - nursing my cold with Lemsip and #eltchat :-D |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:11:02 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rapple18 But yes, you make a good point about feedback. Often missing. #ELTChat |
| cerirhiannon |
10/16/2013 10:11:05 PM |
sorry I'm late! #eltchat catching up! |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:11:18 PM |
@HanaTicha I guess a more controlled practice helps with that. #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:11:34 PM |
@cerirhiannon hey Ceri great to see you - talking about freer pracice #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:11:41 PM |
#eltchat how about peer-FB after feer practice? Maximising interaction? |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:11:47 PM |
@theteacherjames i think its cos often leave FP to end of lesson #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:11:47 PM |
@rapple18 agree on fb but Ts are often treading fine line btween joy of speaking and evaluation #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:12:05 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat FB: maybe we shd work backwds with timing (I'm good at that on Celta trainees plans!), less my own! |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:12:14 PM |
@Marisa_C yes, and then at some point it just becomes a conversation? #ELTchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:12:27 PM |
@sandymillin I'm experimenting with a lot more controlled practice at the moment, so I have to try & reign in the chat. #ELTchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:12:33 PM |
@Marisa_C @jo_sayers Yes, I often feel a bit guilty controlling the lower levels a bit too much #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:13:12 PM |
@rapple18 very good point to work backwards and be sure fb is in there #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:13:14 PM |
RT @mary28sou: @rapple18 agree on fb but Ts are often treading fine line btween joy of speaking and evaluation #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:13:24 PM |
@Shaunwilden yeah, maybe, although I normally do it at the beginning & have the same problem. #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:13:32 PM |
@Shaunwilden a remnant of being a trainee and showng FB at end - can be next time too - on a voicethread or a handout or ppt #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:13:35 PM |
@mary28sou #eltchat Chat vs FB: fair point: but doesnt the learning come with the FB: demand high Tg? |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:13:35 PM |
RT @mary28sou: @rapple18 very good point to work backwards and be sure fb is in there #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:13:59 PM |
@theteacherjames @sandymillin and do you still feel that Ss get the fluency practice they need? #ELTchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:14:27 PM |
RT @MajaJerkovic: @rapple18 Try to focus on the objectives but when the class becomes involved in conversation I go with the flow. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:14:30 PM |
@rapple18 @mary28sou not enough evidence of the beneftis of either #eltchat just experiences |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:14:41 PM |
@mary28sou @rapple18 so we seem to have got advise 1, do it earlier in the lesson :-) #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:14:51 PM |
@MajaJerkovic Don't forget the #eltchat hashtag! |
| cerirhiannon |
10/16/2013 10:15:13 PM |
@Marisa_C thanks! #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:15:29 PM |
#eltchat could we have some brainstorm about how to get Ss to use TL concretely? |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:15:44 PM |
Freer practice involves Ss using all means available without language controls #eltchat So what types of activities are there? |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:15:45 PM |
Does freer practice in fact have to be controlled (even if not obviously so) to help sts use TL? #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:15:52 PM |
@jo_sayers @theteacherjames Don't always get the fluency practice they need #eltchat Trying to have more 'memory stages' (future blog topic) |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:15:58 PM |
@Shaunwilden @mary28sou @rapple18 I guess Ss who love FP will appreciate it at the end too #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:16:00 PM |
@MajaJerkovic Me too, I don't like to reign them in too much. Feels unnatural. Let them speak if they want too, I say! #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:16:05 PM |
If we take a basic PPP plan, are we thinking of FP as the production? If so I can see why ppl run out of time, but if practice? #ELTchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:16:05 PM |
#ELTchat has anyone done freer practice before the controlled? |
| cerirhiannon |
10/16/2013 10:16:16 PM |
re the learning takes place in the fb stage - I think the effort to process language to make meaning is also imp part of learning #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:16:18 PM |
@jo_sayers @theteacherjames Think it depends on how confident they are #eltchat Freer practice is great in theory, but need lang to do it |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:16:38 PM |
@jo_sayers but if u think TBL then much earlier and FB becomes part of the presentation #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:16:43 PM |
@LeaSobocan Yes if I use a task-based approach #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:17:02 PM |
#eltchat How about 'freer practice' as being part of a task rather than something at the end? |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:17:17 PM |
#eltchat sorry too late with that! |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:17:18 PM |
#eltchat not truly controlled, can just offer a few expressions to be included during chat, winner is the one who uses most of them? |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:17:31 PM |
@LizziePinard that sounded not very clear :-D #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:17:32 PM |
@sandymillin @theteacherjames what's a memory stage, if you can give us a blog spoiler?! #ELTchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:17:40 PM |
@sandymillin @jo_sayers My problem is them getting enough accuracy, not fluency. #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:17:54 PM |
@Shaunwilden How's that work for you? I sometime right out flip the 2 to maximise sts engagement. #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:18:14 PM |
#eltchat @Marisa_C I think I may just watch on tonight… :) |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:18:21 PM |
@Marisa_C yes, so still unlikely to run out of time for it #ELTchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:19:07 PM |
@theteacherjames @sandymillin I guess it depends on the learners. Sometimes far too much monitor and not enough chat #ELTchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:19:29 PM |
am getting sts to record their freepractice and then transcribe a part of recording as a way to raise awarenese of lang use #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:20:01 PM |
TBL is fine.. working on lang sts demo they need, but smtms a trad PPP lesson ..needs must!#eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:20:07 PM |
@muranava transcribe, not just listen and notice? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:20:13 PM |
@LeaSobocan Normally start with some free conversation, just to warm up while we are waiting for the inevitable late arrivals! #eltchat |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:20:20 PM |
@theteacherjames Sometimes it seems the lead-in takes on for a longer time than expected but it happens rarely so I let them speak #eltchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:20:48 PM |
@Shaunwilden yes otherwise they don't really listen and notice! #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:20:59 PM |
#eltchat so sorry what is TBL please @rapple18 |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:20:59 PM |
@muranava does the recording itself shift focus to accuracy? #ELTchat Is that what you're aiming for? |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:21:13 PM |
@muranava fair enough just seems a bit time consuming :-) #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:21:21 PM |
@theteacherjames @LeaSobocan Yes and this warm-up can reveal what areas to work on later in the lesson #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:21:31 PM |
@cerirhiannon re Ss making effort to process lang: yes.. change of focus: also important #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:21:32 PM |
@mary28sou @rapple18 task-based learning #eltchat |
| sandyundead |
10/16/2013 10:22:06 PM |
@Marisa_C Today I asked my pre-int SS to chose an image from #eltpics. They wrote a story about it using past simple/cont #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:22:10 PM |
@muranava Yes, I just started to do something similar with my upper ints using soundcloud. Means you have fluency &accuracy. #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:22:13 PM |
Don't forget the topic is about how to get sts to use TL in a FP stage #eltchat |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:22:27 PM |
Hi #eltchat! Had some tech difficulties. Catching up on tweets now. |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:22:31 PM |
@sandyundead that is indeed free #eltchat and creative |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:22:42 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Don't forget the topic is about how to get sts to use TL in a FP stage #eltchat |
| sandyundead |
10/16/2013 10:22:53 PM |
@Marisa_C Good sets for story writing include 'Every picture tells a story','people' and 'emotions' http://t.co/gvhiZ56Dyu #eltpics #eltchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:23:00 PM |
@Shaunwilden usually get them to have ready for next class so clssrm time is not really affected #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:23:19 PM |
@mary28sou @rapple18 Task Based Learning http://t.co/vv88XXLh3w #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:23:21 PM |
@Shaunwilden good point let's not forget that - so how do u remind the Ss abt TL to be used during an activity #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:24:01 PM |
#eltchat then we can talk about changing the venue, walks in the park, doing a science experiment etc. |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:24:13 PM |
@muranava and then what do you do once they come with the transcript? #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:24:16 PM |
@HanaTicha @theteacherjames True, sometimes I appoint an official "listener" just to listen&record 2good and 2not-so-good examples #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:24:22 PM |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Raise your finger every time you hear L1 :-) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:24:48 PM |
Can have a monitor student to 'tick' off TL vocab or structures used by pairs in FP - incentives using TL #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:24:48 PM |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden #eltchat re using TL: have tried simply reminding, but no good. But when 1 has to tick off phrases heard, use soars |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:24:55 PM |
so if encouraging writing a story with whatever prompts how would u focus attention on narrative tenses b4 activ and after in fb ? #eltchat |
| sandyundead |
10/16/2013 10:25:04 PM |
@Shaunwilden Has to be some control or SS unlikely to use TL. No control = conversation = not freer practice. Practice implies TL #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:25:16 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: Can have a monitor student to 'tick' off TL vocab or structures used by pairs in FP - incentives using TL #eltchat > yes! |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:25:28 PM |
@rapple18 @Marisa_C Yes, and having slips of paper with TL on they can 'throw away' when used in conversation #eltchat |
| sandyundead |
10/16/2013 10:25:37 PM |
@theteacherjames @MajaJerkovic I don't like to reign them in either, but if we only converse, they'll never progress IMO #eltchat |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:25:38 PM |
@HanaTicha @theteacherjames @LeaSobocan I usually start with some freer task, like tell me the "good news" or "photo of the week" #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:25:51 PM |
RT @LeaSobocan: @HanaTicha @theteacherjames True, sometimes I appoint an official "listener" just to listen&record 2good and 2not-so-good e… |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:26:09 PM |
@jo_sayers difficult to say, myself i am more interested in getting them metathinking but sts focus on accuracy and pronunciation #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:26:12 PM |
@LeaSobocan Great idea! #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:26:23 PM |
#eltchat or just let them flow with the story and only stop when probs of narrative tenses occur=selective correction |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:26:27 PM |
if time permits, TL can be focuses in Fb then task repetition may get Ss to use it #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:26:44 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat or strips of paper with phrases they swop (mingling), or "hidden sentence / phrase" ... |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:26:50 PM |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden With YLs I put target language on the board as a reference they can use at any time #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:27:04 PM |
Linking back to lunch #eltchat recording the sts can evaluate themselves for TL use, then they can repeat the task to improve #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:27:07 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat really like the monitor idea |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:27:22 PM |
Anyone know why my tweets keep disappearing halfway through writing them on new Tweetdeck? :( #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:27:33 PM |
RT @MicaelaCarey: With YLs I put target language on the board as a reference they can use at any time #eltchat > for older ss a HO or ppt? |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:27:40 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat task repetition with new partner - always improves speaking / use of TL :) |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:27:43 PM |
@sandymillin you've forgotten how to tweet? #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:27:47 PM |
@MajaJerkovic @HanaTicha @theteacherjames My 1st task is usually Word of the week - write up a story, use the words at least once. #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:27:48 PM |
@Marisa_C Yes, good to do an activity and ask 'did you use X, Y, Z?' then Ss do again and have it in their minds #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:27:55 PM |
RT @rapple18: @Marisa_C #eltchat task repetition with new partner - always improves speaking / use of TL :) > it does |
| sandyundead |
10/16/2013 10:28:06 PM |
@jo_sayers "memory stage' is getting learners to put language into their heads for future use, rather than just passing over it #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:28:18 PM |
make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:28:30 PM |
RT @mary28sou: make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:28:41 PM |
@sandyundead @MajaJerkovic True, I wouldn't let it go on all lesson! #ELTchat |
| cerirhiannon |
10/16/2013 10:28:45 PM |
damn phone call got in the way! sorry gotta bow out :( #eltchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:28:57 PM |
@Shaunwilden depending on sts i either look at trancript for accuracy or ask them what they noticed when transcribing or both #eltchat |
| vickyloras |
10/16/2013 10:29:04 PM |
RT @MajaJerkovic: @theteacherjames Sometimes it seems the lead-in takes on for a longer time than expected but it happens rarely so I let t… |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:29:08 PM |
@mary28sou or get the sts to make there own so they recycle the language #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:29:09 PM |
@sandymillin are u two different people today? #eltchat :-D |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:29:11 PM |
@Marisa_C @rapple18 like a free milldrill! #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:29:20 PM |
@mary28sou How do you encourage them to use them meaningfully? #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:29:30 PM |
#eltchat 3 cheers for task repetition! |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:29:38 PM |
@Marisa_C @sandymillin oh yes one alive and a zombie #eltchat |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:29:39 PM |
@sandyundead @theteacherjames Not really,I can measure their progress being their T for 4 yrs. Rare speaking sprees can empower Ss. #eltchat |
| vickyloras |
10/16/2013 10:29:55 PM |
RT @mary28sou: make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:30:21 PM |
@HanaTicha @mary28sou we haven't really been talking abt task types - i presume some sort of activity, context or game set #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:30:30 PM |
got Ss last wk 2talk in 4s, then draw pie chart: who spoke how much. Then chatted again. Focus on time, but Ss managd convo better #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:30:33 PM |
RT @mary28sou: #eltchat 3 cheers for task repetition! - haha i like the humour in that (with three cheers being a repeated phrase) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:31:03 PM |
@sandyundead aren't lots activities supposed to achieve that!? Or is it like a silent memory test style focus? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:31:42 PM |
speed dating set ups (without the speed dating) are naturally suited to task repetition #eltchat |
| digitalpedpet |
10/16/2013 8:31:52 PM |
It has to be Batman; Prezi Vs. PowerPoint. Which corner are you in? http://t.co/bOFnilGFS2 #ELTchat #specialedchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:31:58 PM |
@rapple18 Love this! Stealing it, if you don't mind :) #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:32:13 PM |
@jo_sayers @sandyundead #eltchat all the best comm've tasks.. just difficult to devise all the time! |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:32:26 PM |
@digitalpedpet please refrain from non-topic tweets during #eltchat |
| hellototko |
10/16/2013 10:32:28 PM |
RT @digitalpedpet: It has to be Batman; Prezi Vs. PowerPoint. Which corner are you in? http://t.co/bOFnilGFS2 #ELTchat #specialedchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:32:33 PM |
@Shaunwilden @mary28sou always good to spell em out!! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:32:40 PM |
@rapple18 Similar thing I got from @Lilinka21 is to put TL on pieces of paper in middle. They take phrase each time they use it #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:32:56 PM |
#eltchat I always go back to Penny's "discussions that work" for intriguing tasks that make Ss forget they are talking EN |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:33:19 PM |
RT @Marisa_C speed dating set ups (without the speed dating) are naturally suited to task repetition #eltchat NICE! (without or without!) |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:33:28 PM |
@Marisa_C We'd looked at past simple/cont in previous lesson, so had about 45 mins to write story today. Ideas first, then lang #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:33:43 PM |
Letting ss work in groups with people they like can encourage them use TL during FP #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:33:44 PM |
#eltchat for task repetition, how about chain debate, first 2 Sts, then 4, then 8 etc, either drawing top 10, suggestions, etc. |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:34:12 PM |
@mary28sou V gd resource - also try "Keep talking" F Klipper CUP loads of good ideas #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:34:24 PM |
@MicaelaCarey Having TL on the board is useful for adult SS too. Often start task with it, then rub out halfway through #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:34:49 PM |
@HanaTicha how's that? #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:34:57 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C Yes, good to do an activity and ask 'did you use X, Y, Z?' then Ss do again and have it in their minds #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:35:03 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @MicaelaCarey Having TL on the board is useful for adult SS too. Often start task with it, then rub out halfway through #e… |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:35:28 PM |
@jo_sayers Not afraid to speak with somebody they trust #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:35:39 PM |
@sandymillin @Lilinka21 Reverse rubbish: collect don't throw - NICE! saves on the mess! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:35:44 PM |
RT @rapple18: got Ss last wk 2talk in 4s, then draw pie chart: who spoke how much. Then chatted again. Focus on time, but Ss managd convo b… |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:36:04 PM |
@jo_sayers You'll have to wait for the post :) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:36:06 PM |
@sandymillin @MicaelaCarey That's a lovely idea! Or gradually wipe out as exercise goes on #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:36:55 PM |
@HanaTicha yes, but not sure that necessarily shifts focus to TL, they might just natter! #eltchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:37:22 PM |
thats important - flu and acc, thgh im more interested in just getting them to accept their use of english if u c?@theteacherjames #eltchat |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:37:25 PM |
RT @LeaSobocan: @MajaJerkovic @HanaTicha @theteacherjames My 1st task is usually Word of the week - write up a story, use the words at leas… |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:37:25 PM |
I think one prob with focussed "freer'practice is natural use of TL - perhaps this should be discussed and evaluated too - #eltchat |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:37:28 PM |
@sandymillin #eltchat That's a great idea! Going from controlled to freer practice. |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:37:31 PM |
@jo_sayers @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey So actually a variation on 'throw the slips in the bin' #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:37:36 PM |
Gosh time flying, we talked earlier about making time for fbk but not really how we go about it #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:37:40 PM |
#eltchat one way to get BE adults using English freely is ask about their kids. |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:37:41 PM |
@sandymillin @MicaelaCarey re TL on BB: like disappearing dialogue.. nice.. Ss really concentrate when it's disappearing .. :) #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:37:42 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I think one prob with focussed "freer'practice is natural use of TL - perhaps this should be discussed and evaluated too - #e… |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:38:24 PM |
@rapple18 @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey vanishing technique all over again - yes; sounds fun #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:38:24 PM |
@jo_sayers It does if the student is reluctant to speak at all #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:39:13 PM |
@Shaunwilden If it's specific TL, I tend to ask them if they think they used it. For a small class I can tell them if they did. #eltchat |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:39:22 PM |
@LeaSobocan @HanaTicha @theteacherjames Ss love talking about themselves- they choose a photo from their gallery and talk about it #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:39:26 PM |
@Shaunwilden Then, of course, repeat the task and use TL more! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:39:33 PM |
RT @mary28sou: #eltchat one way to get BE adults using English freely is ask about their kids. |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:39:40 PM |
@Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:39:56 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:40:22 PM |
What about random TL? For example, functional exponents for disagreeing - sound unnatural when a lot used together #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:40:25 PM |
#eltchat awareness raisers like having Ss fill in a questionnaire type where they circle one of three (spelled out) possible responses |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:40:33 PM |
@Shaunwilden Indeed: FB - it's smtms self evident with slips of ppr or tick boxes, but s.o. mentioned appropriate use: T to commnt #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
10/16/2013 9:40:34 PM |
RT @sandymillin: What about random TL? For example, functional exponents for disagreeing - sound unnatural when a lot used together #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:40:46 PM |
@jo_sayers exploration of context and careful CCQs are really important in earlier stages - incl roles genre register etc #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:40:49 PM |
It's the question of simply using the TL v using the TL in a natural way. #eltchat |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:41:32 PM |
RT @jo_sayers @Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat Excellent point! |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:41:35 PM |
@rapple18 indeed and obviously not just look at negatives with is often what fbk entails #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:41:40 PM |
@LizziePinard @jo_sayers true Lizzie - which is why lots of games resemble drills - we also need longer chunks of connected talk #eltchat |
| muranava |
10/16/2013 10:41:59 PM |
MT @Marisa_C @jo_sayers explrtion context and careful CCQs are really important earlier stages - roles genre register etc #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:42:20 PM |
@sandymillin yes, would be nice to engineer an end of week situation in which a variety of the week's TL would work #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:42:24 PM |
@sandymillin re random use: true, but 4me, Ss need to get their tongues round using new TL. Does appropriate use come later?? #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:43:00 PM |
@rapple18 But can't they get their tongues around the TL in a controlled stage? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:43:24 PM |
@rapple18 @sandymillin appropriate use being natural use? #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:43:26 PM |
@sandymillin Often problems w/ that in lower cl, sts sound like robots in speaking task - how to raise awareness of natural lang #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:43:44 PM |
@jo_sayers a good way to do an all TL activ is to supply the key phrases & Ss improvise creating sketch roles action #eltchat Act & Guess |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:43:50 PM |
@BrunoELT you should know better bruno! #eltchat |
| mary28sou |
10/16/2013 10:43:55 PM |
#eltchat This was so great! Hate to leave but must rise tomorrow at 5:15. Will read summary asap |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:44:26 PM |
@Shaunwilden not just look at negatives which is often what FB entails #eltchat Yes reminder: focus on positives too .. sts visibly glow! |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:45:12 PM |
I like more controlled activities to become freer as they go on. I think this means my sts are engaged with what they are doing. #ELTChat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:45:16 PM |
@sandymillin yes but v different when it carries meaning and is impromptu (at least that's how I feel with my Spanish or Hungo!) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:45:47 PM |
@Marisa_C Yes, or Ss try and seemlessly incorporate TL from a slip into a convo. If no listeners detect, then the speakers win! #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:46:01 PM |
@theteacherjames Or freer activities to become more controlled. It's a way too. #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:46:27 PM |
@Shaunwilden @sandymillin appropriate use being natural use? #eltchat yes, sorry... #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:46:47 PM |
@rapple18 @Shaunwilden Feedback is not the same as correction, it's more well rounded and useful. #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:47:17 PM |
@HanaTicha Yes, that could work too. #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:47:17 PM |
@rapple18 @sandymillin this needs time though doesn't it? And more than one lesson of CP and FP? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:47:30 PM |
@jo_sayers yes! great for all sorts of areas of language - you can even feed specific lines #eltchat did one with -ing vs -ed which a hit |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:47:57 PM |
@theteacherjames @rapple18 agreed, though many would see them as synonyms #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:48:18 PM |
@theteacherjames @Shaunwilden FB: + def when sts feel ur focusing on their individual needs, even if done discretely as part of gp #eltchat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:49:07 PM |
@theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Agreed, time 2 teach sts how to give eachother good fb works for all in the long term, too #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:49:48 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rapple18 exactly - no point trying out the TL if it's in a context it would never be used in in real life #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:49:54 PM |
RT @LeaSobocan: @sandymillin Often problems w/ that in lower cl, sts sound like robots in speaking task - how to raise awareness of natural… |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:50:04 PM |
@theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden feedback that is explanatory often better than corrective #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:50:13 PM |
@Shaunwilden @sandymillin re natural lang: needs time though doesn't it? Yes, - 50' all-incl. lessons..? dream on! Lots of revision #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:50:27 PM |
RT @rapple18: @Shaunwilden @sandymillin re natural lang: needs time though doesn't it? Yes, - 50' all-incl. lessons..? dream on! Lots of re… |
| eannegrenoble |
10/16/2013 10:50:38 PM |
@Shaunwilden @theteacherjames @rapple18 That sounds like another #ELTchat subject said a lurker ;-) |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:51:07 PM |
One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:51:21 PM |
@sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 so often the case with rare tenses in overengineered activities that never happen in real life #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:51:31 PM |
When my sts are engaged in freer speaking activities, I sit back, listen, make notes & give them feedback when they're done. #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:51:35 PM |
@Marisa_C Fluency, content, pron #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:51:36 PM |
@rapple18 I agree that TL is different when impromptu, but then it's back to the freer practice (with TL focus) v. conversation #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:51:45 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltc… |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:52:03 PM |
@rapple18 IN conversation the language should happen in the right places anyway (and I know it doesn't always from my langs!) #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:52:06 PM |
last ten minutes #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:52:14 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C Yes, or Ss try and seemlessly incorporate TL from a slip into a convo. If no listeners detect, then the speakers w… |
| MajaJerkovic |
10/16/2013 8:52:23 PM |
@theteacherjames And that we're good moderators who are simply guiding our Ss towards being independent speakers/ learners. #eltchat |
| web20education |
10/16/2013 11:52:24 PM |
Only 10 days left to join The Future of Storytelling free @iversity #mooc http://t.co/wZl4pT9gDJ #edchat #cpchat #eltchat #elearning #ce13 |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:52:26 PM |
@sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 #eltchat This is sometimes problem with YLs- they have no context to use TL outside class. |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:52:28 PM |
RT @HanaTicha: @Marisa_C Fluency, content, pron #eltchat > yes, expression, intonation, politeness (manner) etc ideas relevance |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:52:30 PM |
@Marisa_C yes, even when you could look at an error in lots of ways, it tends to be gram that's focused on #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:52:43 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 so often the case with rare tenses in overengineered activities that never happen in rea… |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:52:45 PM |
RT @LeaSobocan @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden teach sts how 2give e.o. good fb #eltchat - yes! + stop st. use of "U shouldn't have" etc |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:53:12 PM |
@theteacherjames I first ask their peers to provide feedback..then it's my turn #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:53:21 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rapple18 Natural use needs a lot of repetition over a number of levels - that's why SS using TL isn't always freer! #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:54:20 PM |
RT @HanaTicha: @theteacherjames I first ask their peers to provide feedback..then it's my turn #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:54:37 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @Shaunwilden @rapple18 Natural use needs a lot of repetition over a number of levels - that's why SS using TL isn't always… |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:54:56 PM |
@MicaelaCarey Not just younger learners! That's why it's important to show our SS where/how they can practise outside class #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:54:58 PM |
@MajaJerkovic Yes, makes a lot of sense. #ELTChat |
| LeaSobocan |
10/16/2013 10:55:08 PM |
@rapple18 @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden draw rubric+they note 1good+1bad thing frm each area, focus especially on pron,politen ess #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
10/16/2013 11:55:17 PM |
@sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 the difference between 'learning' and 'acquiring' some new language #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:55:22 PM |
RT @LeaSobocan: @theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Agreed, time 2 teach sts how to give eachother good fb works for all in the long te… |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:55:49 PM |
@jo_sayers Indeed :) #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:55:51 PM |
@sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 That's why freer practice should be a level or two below #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:56:18 PM |
RT @HanaTicha: @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 That's why freer practice should be a level or two below #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:56:26 PM |
@HanaTicha I write up things that need correcting on the board & ask them to do it. #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:56:31 PM |
RT @HanaTicha freer practice should be a level or two below #eltchat very good point, often forgotten. Hard for lower levels too! |
| Marisa_C |
10/16/2013 11:56:33 PM |
@HanaTicha interesting theory - why would you say that? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 10:56:48 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltc… |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:56:54 PM |
@HanaTicha We often expect SS to produce complicated lang freely when they've just seen it for the first time! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:57:01 PM |
As we approach the end we need a volunteer for the summary #eltchat |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:57:22 PM |
@LeaSobocan @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden re 1good+1bad thing: good focus idea, and often much more effective from peers than Ts. #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:57:22 PM |
@Marisa_C If you want to be fluent you have to be 110% sure of the lang used #eltchat not my theory :-) |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:57:52 PM |
@sandymillin Exactly! #eltchat |
| josipa74 |
10/16/2013 10:58:08 PM |
Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way or working due for an overhaul? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 10:58:21 PM |
RT @josipa74: Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way or working due for an overhaul? #eltchat |
| MicaelaCarey |
10/16/2013 10:58:42 PM |
@theteacherjames @HanaTicha #eltchat excellent feedback activity! Ss-focused and memorable for them. |
| rapple18 |
10/16/2013 8:59:24 PM |
@HanaTicha @Marisa_C "110% sure" Good theory tho, - but that's the beauy of the c'rm .. if it's safe :) .. they can drop below! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/16/2013 11:59:47 PM |
@josipa74 Possibly. Any preferences? It's quite linked to PPP (present-practice-produce) and many other models are available #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
10/16/2013 10:59:47 PM |
@MicaelaCarey @theteacherjames From my experience ss can spot 99% of their peers' errors themselves #eltchat |
| ELTchat |
10/16/2013 11:00:01 PM |
Do we have a volunteer to do the summary? You're free to do it how you wish! #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
10/16/2013 11:00:01 PM |
Do we have a volunteer to do the summary? You're free to do it how you wish! #ELTChat |
| josipa74 |
10/16/2013 11:00:10 PM |
Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way of working due for an overhaul? Any ideas? #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/17/2013 12:00:39 AM |
@theteacherjames Wish I could, but still settling in here. Next time I make it to the chat, I'll do the summary! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10/16/2013 11:00:46 PM |
And that's the hour, lively #eltchat tonight and perhaps some themes for future chats nite all |
| jo_sayers |
10/17/2013 12:00:57 AM |
@rapple18 @HanaTicha @Marisa_C I don't really agree with the 110% sure, it's fluent when it requires no thought at all #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10/17/2013 12:00:59 AM |
Night all #eltchat |
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