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Freer practice ways of really getting sts to use target lang

Page history last edited by Shaun 10 years, 8 months ago

This is the transcript of #eltchat on Freer practice: ways of really getting sts to use target language

 

username local date status
ELTchat 10/16/2013 10:02:39 PM Welcome to #eltchat on Freer practice: ways of really getting sts to use target lang with mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden & @theteacherjames
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:02:42 PM It's 11pm here, and I'm around for an #eltchat for the first time in a very long time. Let's see if I can make it to the end... ;)
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:03:00 PM Hello again ! #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:03:27 PM Good afternoon everyone! #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:04:13 PM @rapple18 I think this is your topic isn't it Rachel? #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:04:56 PM Looking forward to #ELTchat, haven't participated or lurked since forever.
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:05:03 PM @sandymillin good commitment! #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:06:20 PM So then freer practice #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:06:22 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat yes, so perhaps how we can demo / note down / quantify / evaluate sts' success in using TL in speaking tasks
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:06:32 PM RT @rapple18: @Shaunwilden #eltchat yes, so perhaps how we can demo / note down / quantify / evaluate sts' success in using TL in speaking …
uniquelanguages 10/16/2013 8:06:46 PM Hi.  Shall dip in and out of #eltchat and might even contribute but hoping to learn.
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:07:10 PM So how much freer practice do you do in your lessons? Do you have much time for it? #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:07:28 PM I guess we are all happy with the term 'freer practice'? #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:07:34 PM Hi all sorry to be late - good to see some familiar faces back on #Eltchat :-)
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:07:34 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat but we could also throw out ideas for tasks for getting sts using TL ... ?
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:07:37 PM #eltchat one way of course is grab Ss vocab notebooks and play games with their words
UDP_Mx 10/16/2013 8:08:16 PM RT @ELTchat: Join us for an #ELTChat on Freer practice: ways of really getting sts to use target language, in 15 mins.
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:08:23 PM @theteacherjames #eltchat One of my concerns.. smtms I think we don't make enough time, and esp not for valid FB after
muranava 10/16/2013 10:08:30 PM #eltchat hi all but lurking :/
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:08:52 PM @theteacherjames Trying hard to avoid that final end-of-the-lesson oops-we-didn't-get-to-it feeling by reducing controlled practice #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:08:55 PM Freer practice is good but ss need to be provided with vocab and funct lang to be able to practise freely  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:09:00 PM @rapple18 @theteacherjames yes i think in many cases the feedback gets overlooked #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:09:03 PM @theteacherjames #eltchat Doesn't always work though!
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:09:03 PM @rapple18 often see this happen in classes - fb time not allowed for #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:09:09 PM @Shaunwilden I guess 'freer' has a fairly wide scope #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:09:10 PM RT @sandymillin: @theteacherjames Trying hard to avoid that final end-of-the-lesson oops-we-didn't-get-to-it feeling by reducing controlled…
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:09:50 PM @jo_sayers Yes it can mean different things to different teachers #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:09:51 PM @rapple18 I have the opposite problem, I could easily spend the whole class in conversation & have to remember the objectives! #ELTchat
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:10:05 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat Hello! I'm nominally here, for once… brain is mush though….. :)
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:10:15 PM @jo_sayers Talking about degrees of freedom #eltchat and what we would call free for beginners highly controlled for later #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:10:31 PM @Shaunwilden @theteacherjames FB on speaking: perhaps that's a subtopic for later in this hour? I'd be v interested .. #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:10:46 PM @LizziePinard mine too - nursing my cold with Lemsip and #eltchat :-D
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:11:02 PM @Shaunwilden @rapple18 But yes, you make a good point about feedback. Often missing. #ELTChat
cerirhiannon 10/16/2013 10:11:05 PM sorry I'm late!  #eltchat catching up!
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:11:18 PM @HanaTicha I guess a more controlled practice helps with that. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:11:34 PM @cerirhiannon hey Ceri great to see you - talking about freer pracice #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:11:41 PM #eltchat how about peer-FB after feer practice? Maximising interaction?
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:11:47 PM @theteacherjames i think its cos often leave FP to end of lesson #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:11:47 PM @rapple18 agree on fb but Ts are often treading fine line btween joy of speaking and evaluation #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:12:05 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat FB: maybe we shd work backwds with timing (I'm good at that on Celta trainees plans!), less my own!
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:12:14 PM @Marisa_C yes, and then at some point it just becomes a conversation? #ELTchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:12:27 PM @sandymillin I'm experimenting with a lot more controlled practice at the  moment, so I have to try & reign in the chat. #ELTchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:12:33 PM @Marisa_C @jo_sayers Yes, I often feel a bit guilty controlling the lower levels  a bit too much  #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:13:12 PM @rapple18 very good point to work backwards and be sure fb is in there #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:13:14 PM RT @mary28sou: @rapple18 agree on fb but Ts are often treading fine line btween joy of speaking and evaluation #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:13:24 PM @Shaunwilden yeah, maybe, although I normally do it at the beginning & have the same problem. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:13:32 PM @Shaunwilden a remnant of being a trainee and showng FB at end - can be next time too - on a voicethread or a handout or ppt #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:13:35 PM @mary28sou #eltchat Chat vs FB: fair point: but doesnt the learning come with the FB: demand high Tg?
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:13:35 PM RT @mary28sou: @rapple18 very good point to work backwards and be sure fb is in there #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:13:59 PM @theteacherjames @sandymillin and do you still feel that Ss get the fluency practice they need? #ELTchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:14:27 PM RT @MajaJerkovic: @rapple18 Try to focus on the objectives but when the class becomes involved in conversation I go with the flow. #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:14:30 PM @rapple18 @mary28sou not enough evidence of the beneftis of either #eltchat just experiences
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:14:41 PM @mary28sou @rapple18  so we seem to have got advise 1, do it earlier in the lesson :-) #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:14:51 PM @MajaJerkovic Don't forget the #eltchat hashtag!
cerirhiannon 10/16/2013 10:15:13 PM @Marisa_C thanks!  #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:15:29 PM #eltchat could we have some brainstorm about how to get Ss to use TL concretely?
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:15:44 PM Freer practice involves Ss using all means available without language controls #eltchat So what types of activities are there?
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:15:45 PM Does freer practice in fact have to be controlled (even if not obviously so) to help sts use TL? #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:15:52 PM @jo_sayers @theteacherjames Don't always get the fluency practice they need #eltchat Trying to have more 'memory stages' (future blog topic)
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:15:58 PM @Shaunwilden @mary28sou @rapple18 I guess Ss who love FP will appreciate it at the end too  #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:16:00 PM @MajaJerkovic Me too, I don't like to reign them in too much. Feels unnatural. Let them speak if they want too, I say! #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:16:05 PM If we take a basic PPP plan, are we thinking of FP as the production? If so I can see why ppl run out of time, but if practice? #ELTchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:16:05 PM #ELTchat has anyone done freer practice before the controlled?
cerirhiannon 10/16/2013 10:16:16 PM re the learning takes place in the fb stage - I think the effort to process language to make meaning is also imp part of learning #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:16:18 PM @jo_sayers @theteacherjames Think it depends on how confident they are #eltchat Freer practice is great in theory, but need lang to do it
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:16:38 PM @jo_sayers but if u think TBL then much earlier and FB becomes part of the presentation #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:16:43 PM @LeaSobocan Yes if I use a task-based approach #eltchat
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:17:02 PM #eltchat How about 'freer practice' as being part of a task rather than something at the end?
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:17:17 PM #eltchat sorry too late with that!
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:17:18 PM #eltchat not truly controlled, can just offer a few expressions to be included during chat, winner is the one who uses most of them?
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:17:31 PM @LizziePinard that sounded not very clear :-D #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:17:32 PM @sandymillin @theteacherjames what's a memory stage, if you can give us a blog spoiler?! #ELTchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:17:40 PM @sandymillin @jo_sayers My problem is them getting enough accuracy, not fluency. #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:17:54 PM @Shaunwilden How's that work for you? I sometime right out flip the 2 to maximise sts engagement. #eltchat
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:18:14 PM #eltchat @Marisa_C I think I may just watch on tonight… :)
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:18:21 PM @Marisa_C yes, so still unlikely to run out of time for it #ELTchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:19:07 PM @theteacherjames @sandymillin I guess it depends on the learners. Sometimes far too much monitor and not enough chat #ELTchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:19:29 PM am getting sts to record their freepractice and then transcribe a part of recording as a way to raise awarenese of lang use #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:20:01 PM TBL is fine.. working on lang sts demo they need, but smtms a trad PPP lesson ..needs must!#eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:20:07 PM @muranava transcribe, not just listen and notice? #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:20:13 PM @LeaSobocan Normally start with some free conversation, just to warm up while we are waiting for the inevitable late arrivals! #eltchat
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:20:20 PM @theteacherjames Sometimes it seems the lead-in takes on for a longer time than expected but it happens rarely so I let them speak  #eltchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:20:48 PM @Shaunwilden yes otherwise they don't really listen and notice!  #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:20:59 PM #eltchat so sorry what is TBL please @rapple18
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:20:59 PM @muranava does the recording itself shift focus to accuracy? #ELTchat Is that what you're aiming for?
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:21:13 PM @muranava fair enough just seems a bit time consuming :-) #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:21:21 PM @theteacherjames @LeaSobocan Yes and this warm-up can reveal what areas to work on later in the lesson  #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:21:31 PM @cerirhiannon re Ss making effort to process lang: yes.. change of focus: also important #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:21:32 PM @mary28sou @rapple18 task-based learning #eltchat
sandyundead 10/16/2013 10:22:06 PM @Marisa_C Today I asked my pre-int SS to chose an image from #eltpics. They wrote a story about it using past simple/cont #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:22:10 PM @muranava Yes, I just started to do something similar with my upper ints using soundcloud. Means you have fluency &accuracy. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:22:13 PM Don't forget the topic is about how to get sts to use TL in a FP stage #eltchat
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:22:27 PM Hi #eltchat!  Had some tech difficulties.  Catching up on tweets now.
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:22:31 PM @sandyundead that is indeed free #eltchat and creative
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:22:42 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Don't forget the topic is about how to get sts to use TL in a FP stage #eltchat
sandyundead 10/16/2013 10:22:53 PM @Marisa_C Good sets for story writing include 'Every picture tells a story','people' and 'emotions' http://t.co/gvhiZ56Dyu #eltpics #eltchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:23:00 PM @Shaunwilden usually get them to have ready for next class so clssrm time is not really affected #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:23:19 PM @mary28sou @rapple18 Task Based Learning http://t.co/vv88XXLh3w #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:23:21 PM @Shaunwilden good point let's not forget that - so how do u remind the Ss abt TL to be used during an activity #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:24:01 PM #eltchat then we can talk about changing the venue, walks in the park, doing a science experiment etc.
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:24:13 PM @muranava and then what do you do once they come with the transcript? #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:24:16 PM @HanaTicha @theteacherjames True, sometimes I appoint an official "listener" just to listen&record 2good and 2not-so-good examples #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:24:22 PM @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Raise your finger every time you hear L1 :-) #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:24:48 PM Can have a monitor student to 'tick' off TL vocab or structures used by pairs in FP - incentives using TL #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:24:48 PM @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden #eltchat re using TL: have tried simply reminding, but no good. But when 1 has to tick off phrases heard, use soars
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:24:55 PM so if encouraging writing a story with whatever prompts  how would u focus attention on narrative tenses b4 activ and after in fb ? #eltchat
sandyundead 10/16/2013 10:25:04 PM @Shaunwilden Has to be some control or SS unlikely to use TL. No control = conversation = not freer practice. Practice implies TL #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:25:16 PM RT @jo_sayers: Can have a monitor student to 'tick' off TL vocab or structures used by pairs in FP - incentives using TL #eltchat > yes!
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:25:28 PM @rapple18 @Marisa_C Yes, and having slips of paper with TL on they can 'throw away' when used in conversation #eltchat
sandyundead 10/16/2013 10:25:37 PM @theteacherjames @MajaJerkovic I don't like to reign them in either, but if we only converse, they'll never progress IMO #eltchat
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:25:38 PM @HanaTicha @theteacherjames @LeaSobocan I usually start with some freer task, like tell me the "good news" or "photo of the week" #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:25:51 PM RT @LeaSobocan: @HanaTicha @theteacherjames True, sometimes I appoint an official "listener" just to listen&record 2good and 2not-so-good e…
muranava 10/16/2013 10:26:09 PM @jo_sayers difficult to say, myself i am more interested in getting them metathinking but sts focus on accuracy and pronunciation #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:26:12 PM @LeaSobocan Great idea! #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:26:23 PM #eltchat or just let them flow with the story and only stop when probs of narrative tenses occur=selective correction
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:26:27 PM if time permits, TL can be focuses in Fb then task repetition may get Ss to use it #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:26:44 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C #eltchat or strips of paper with phrases they swop (mingling), or "hidden sentence / phrase" ...
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:26:50 PM @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden With YLs I put target language on the board as a reference they can use at any time #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:27:04 PM Linking back to lunch #eltchat recording the sts can evaluate themselves for TL use, then they can repeat the task to improve #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:27:07 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat really like the monitor idea
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:27:22 PM Anyone know why my tweets keep disappearing halfway through writing them on new Tweetdeck? :( #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:27:33 PM RT @MicaelaCarey: With YLs I put target language on the board as a reference they can use at any time #eltchat > for older ss a HO or ppt?
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:27:40 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat task repetition with new partner - always improves speaking / use of TL :)
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:27:43 PM @sandymillin you've forgotten how to tweet? #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:27:47 PM @MajaJerkovic @HanaTicha @theteacherjames My 1st task is usually Word of the week - write up a story, use the words at least once. #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:27:48 PM @Marisa_C Yes, good to do an activity and ask 'did you use X, Y, Z?' then Ss do again and have it in their minds #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:27:55 PM RT @rapple18: @Marisa_C #eltchat task repetition with new partner - always improves speaking / use of TL :) > it does
sandyundead 10/16/2013 10:28:06 PM @jo_sayers "memory stage' is getting learners to put language into their heads for future use, rather than just passing over it #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:28:18 PM make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:28:30 PM RT @mary28sou: make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:28:41 PM @sandyundead @MajaJerkovic True, I wouldn't let it go on all lesson! #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 10/16/2013 10:28:45 PM damn phone call got in the way! sorry gotta bow out :( #eltchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:28:57 PM @Shaunwilden depending on sts i either look at trancript for accuracy or ask them what they noticed when transcribing or both #eltchat
vickyloras 10/16/2013 10:29:04 PM RT @MajaJerkovic: @theteacherjames Sometimes it seems the lead-in takes on for a longer time than expected but it happens rarely so I let t…
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:29:08 PM @mary28sou or get the sts to make there own so they recycle the language #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:29:09 PM @sandymillin are u two different people today? #eltchat :-D
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:29:11 PM @Marisa_C @rapple18 like a free milldrill! #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:29:20 PM @mary28sou How do you encourage them to use them meaningfully?  #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:29:30 PM #eltchat 3 cheers for task repetition!
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:29:38 PM @Marisa_C @sandymillin oh yes one alive and a zombie #eltchat
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:29:39 PM @sandyundead @theteacherjames Not really,I can measure their progress being their T for 4 yrs. Rare speaking sprees can empower Ss. #eltchat
vickyloras 10/16/2013 10:29:55 PM RT @mary28sou: make cards with expressions on them, "deal" out to Ss and they dump them as they use them #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:30:21 PM @HanaTicha @mary28sou we haven't really been talking abt task types - i presume some sort of activity, context or game set #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:30:30 PM got Ss last wk 2talk in 4s, then draw pie chart: who spoke how much. Then chatted again. Focus on time, but Ss managd convo better #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:30:33 PM RT @mary28sou: #eltchat 3 cheers for task repetition! - haha i like the humour in that (with three cheers being a repeated phrase) #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:31:03 PM @sandyundead aren't lots activities supposed to achieve that!? Or is it like a silent memory test style focus? #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:31:42 PM speed dating set ups (without the speed dating) are naturally suited to task repetition #eltchat
digitalpedpet 10/16/2013 8:31:52 PM It has to be Batman; Prezi Vs. PowerPoint. Which corner are you in? http://t.co/bOFnilGFS2 #ELTchat #specialedchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:31:58 PM @rapple18 Love this! Stealing it, if you don't mind :) #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:32:13 PM @jo_sayers @sandyundead #eltchat all the best comm've tasks.. just difficult to devise all the time!
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:32:26 PM @digitalpedpet please refrain from non-topic tweets during #eltchat
hellototko 10/16/2013 10:32:28 PM RT @digitalpedpet: It has to be Batman; Prezi Vs. PowerPoint. Which corner are you in? http://t.co/bOFnilGFS2 #ELTchat #specialedchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:32:33 PM @Shaunwilden @mary28sou always good to spell em out!! #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:32:40 PM @rapple18 Similar thing I got from @Lilinka21 is to put TL on pieces of paper in middle. They take phrase each time they use it #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:32:56 PM #eltchat I always go back to Penny's "discussions that work" for intriguing tasks that make Ss forget they are talking EN
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:33:19 PM RT @Marisa_C speed dating set ups (without the speed dating) are naturally suited to task repetition #eltchat NICE! (without or without!)
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:33:28 PM @Marisa_C We'd looked at past simple/cont in previous lesson, so had about 45 mins to write story today. Ideas first, then lang #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:33:43 PM Letting ss work in groups with people they like can encourage them use TL during FP  #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:33:44 PM #eltchat for task repetition, how about chain debate, first 2 Sts, then 4, then 8 etc, either drawing top 10, suggestions, etc.
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:34:12 PM @mary28sou V gd resource - also try "Keep talking" F Klipper CUP loads of good ideas #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:34:24 PM @MicaelaCarey Having TL on the board is useful for adult SS too. Often start task with it, then rub out halfway through #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:34:49 PM @HanaTicha how's that? #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:34:57 PM RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C Yes, good to do an activity and ask 'did you use X, Y, Z?' then Ss do again and have it in their minds #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:35:03 PM RT @sandymillin: @MicaelaCarey Having TL on the board is useful for adult SS too. Often start task with it, then rub out halfway through #e…
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:35:28 PM @jo_sayers Not afraid to speak with somebody they trust  #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:35:39 PM @sandymillin @Lilinka21 Reverse rubbish: collect don't throw - NICE! saves on the mess! #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:35:44 PM RT @rapple18: got Ss last wk 2talk in 4s, then draw pie chart: who spoke how much. Then chatted again. Focus on time, but Ss managd convo b…
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:36:04 PM @jo_sayers You'll have to wait for the post :) #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:36:06 PM @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey That's a lovely idea! Or gradually wipe out as exercise goes on #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:36:55 PM @HanaTicha yes, but not sure that necessarily shifts focus to TL, they might just natter! #eltchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:37:22 PM thats important - flu and acc, thgh im more interested in just getting them to accept their use of english if u c?@theteacherjames #eltchat
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:37:25 PM RT @LeaSobocan: @MajaJerkovic @HanaTicha @theteacherjames My 1st task is usually Word of the week - write up a story, use the words at leas…
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:37:25 PM I think one prob with focussed "freer'practice is natural use of TL - perhaps this should be discussed and evaluated too - #eltchat
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:37:28 PM @sandymillin #eltchat  That's a great idea! Going from controlled to freer practice.
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:37:31 PM @jo_sayers @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey So actually a variation on 'throw the slips in the bin'  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:37:36 PM Gosh time flying, we talked earlier about making time for fbk but not really how we go about it #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:37:40 PM #eltchat one way to get BE adults using English freely is ask about their kids.
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:37:41 PM @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey re TL on BB: like disappearing dialogue.. nice.. Ss really concentrate when it's disappearing .. :) #eltchat
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:37:42 PM RT @Marisa_C: I think one prob with focussed "freer'practice is natural use of TL - perhaps this should be discussed and evaluated too - #e…
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:38:24 PM @rapple18 @sandymillin @MicaelaCarey  vanishing technique all over again - yes; sounds fun #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:38:24 PM @jo_sayers It does if the student is reluctant to speak at all  #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:39:13 PM @Shaunwilden If it's specific TL, I tend to ask them if they think they used it. For a small class I can tell them if they did. #eltchat
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:39:22 PM @LeaSobocan @HanaTicha @theteacherjames Ss love talking about themselves- they choose a photo from their gallery and talk about it #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:39:26 PM @Shaunwilden Then, of course, repeat the task and use TL more! #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:39:33 PM RT @mary28sou: #eltchat one way to get BE adults using English freely is ask about their kids.
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:39:40 PM @Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:39:56 PM RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:40:22 PM What about random TL? For example, functional exponents for disagreeing - sound unnatural when a lot used together #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:40:25 PM #eltchat awareness raisers like having Ss fill in a questionnaire type where they circle one of three (spelled out) possible responses
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:40:33 PM @Shaunwilden Indeed: FB - it's smtms self evident with slips of ppr or tick boxes, but s.o. mentioned appropriate use: T to commnt  #eltchat
LizziePinard 10/16/2013 9:40:34 PM RT @sandymillin: What about random TL? For example, functional exponents for disagreeing - sound unnatural when a lot used together #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:40:46 PM @jo_sayers exploration of context and careful CCQs are really important in earlier stages - incl roles genre register etc #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:40:49 PM It's the question of simply using the TL v using the TL in a natural way. #eltchat
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:41:32 PM RT @jo_sayers @Marisa_C I guess that if the setup is good, TL should come naturally in an activity #eltchat  Excellent point!
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:41:35 PM @rapple18 indeed and obviously not just look at negatives with is often what fbk entails #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:41:40 PM @LizziePinard @jo_sayers true Lizzie - which is why lots of games resemble drills - we also need longer chunks of connected talk #eltchat
muranava 10/16/2013 10:41:59 PM MT @Marisa_C @jo_sayers explrtion context and careful CCQs are really important earlier stages - roles genre register etc #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:42:20 PM @sandymillin yes, would be nice to engineer an end of week situation in which a variety of the week's TL would work #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:42:24 PM @sandymillin re random use: true, but 4me, Ss need to get their tongues round using new TL. Does appropriate use come later?? #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:43:00 PM @rapple18 But can't they get their tongues around the TL in a controlled stage? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:43:24 PM @rapple18 @sandymillin appropriate use being natural use? #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:43:26 PM @sandymillin Often problems w/ that in lower cl, sts sound like robots in speaking task - how to raise awareness of natural lang #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:43:44 PM @jo_sayers a good way to do an all TL activ is to supply the key phrases & Ss improvise creating sketch roles action #eltchat Act & Guess
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:43:50 PM @BrunoELT you should know better bruno! #eltchat
mary28sou 10/16/2013 10:43:55 PM #eltchat This was so great! Hate to leave but must rise tomorrow at 5:15. Will read summary asap
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:44:26 PM @Shaunwilden not just look at negatives which is often what FB entails #eltchat  Yes reminder: focus on positives too .. sts visibly glow!
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:45:12 PM I like more controlled activities to become freer as they go on. I think this means my sts are engaged with what they are doing. #ELTChat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:45:16 PM @sandymillin yes but v different when it carries meaning and is impromptu (at least that's how I feel with my Spanish or Hungo!) #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:45:47 PM @Marisa_C Yes, or Ss try and seemlessly incorporate TL from a slip into a convo. If no listeners detect, then the speakers win! #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:46:01 PM @theteacherjames Or freer activities to become more controlled. It's a way too.  #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:46:27 PM @Shaunwilden @sandymillin appropriate use being natural use? #eltchat yes, sorry...  #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:46:47 PM @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Feedback is not the same as correction, it's more well rounded and useful. #ELTChat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:47:17 PM @HanaTicha Yes, that could work too. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:47:17 PM @rapple18 @sandymillin this needs time though doesn't it? And more than one lesson of CP and FP? #eltchat
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:47:30 PM @jo_sayers yes! great for all sorts of areas of language - you can even feed specific lines #eltchat did one with -ing vs -ed which a hit
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:47:57 PM @theteacherjames @rapple18 agreed, though many would see them as synonyms #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:48:18 PM @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden FB: + def when sts feel ur focusing on their individual needs, even if done discretely as part of gp #eltchat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:49:07 PM @theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Agreed, time 2 teach sts how to give eachother good fb works for all in the long term, too #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:49:48 PM @Shaunwilden @rapple18 exactly - no point trying out the TL if it's in a context it would never be used in in real life #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:49:54 PM RT @LeaSobocan: @sandymillin Often problems w/ that in lower cl, sts sound like robots in speaking task - how to raise awareness of natural…
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:50:04 PM @theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden feedback that is explanatory often better than corrective #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:50:13 PM @Shaunwilden @sandymillin re natural lang: needs time though doesn't it? Yes, - 50' all-incl. lessons..? dream on! Lots of revision #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:50:27 PM RT @rapple18: @Shaunwilden @sandymillin re natural lang: needs time though doesn't it? Yes, - 50' all-incl. lessons..? dream on! Lots of re…
eannegrenoble 10/16/2013 10:50:38 PM @Shaunwilden @theteacherjames @rapple18 That sounds like another #ELTchat subject said a lurker ;-)
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:51:07 PM One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:51:21 PM @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 so often the case with rare tenses in overengineered activities that never happen in real life #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:51:31 PM When my sts are engaged in freer speaking activities, I sit back, listen, make notes & give them feedback when they're done. #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:51:35 PM @Marisa_C Fluency, content, pron  #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:51:36 PM @rapple18 I agree that TL is different when impromptu, but then it's back to the freer practice (with TL focus) v. conversation #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:51:45 PM RT @Marisa_C: One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltc…
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:52:03 PM @rapple18 IN conversation the language should happen in the right places anyway (and I know it doesn't always from my langs!) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:52:06 PM last ten minutes #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:52:14 PM RT @jo_sayers: @Marisa_C Yes, or Ss try and seemlessly incorporate TL from a slip into a convo. If no listeners detect, then the speakers w…
MajaJerkovic 10/16/2013 8:52:23 PM @theteacherjames And that we're good moderators who are simply guiding our Ss towards being independent speakers/ learners. #eltchat
web20education 10/16/2013 11:52:24 PM Only 10 days left to join The Future of Storytelling free @iversity #mooc http://t.co/wZl4pT9gDJ #edchat #cpchat #eltchat #elearning #ce13
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:52:26 PM @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 #eltchat This is sometimes problem with YLs- they have no context to use TL outside class.
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:52:28 PM RT @HanaTicha: @Marisa_C Fluency, content, pron  #eltchat > yes, expression, intonation, politeness (manner) etc ideas relevance
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:52:30 PM @Marisa_C yes, even when you could look at an error in lots of ways, it tends to be gram that's focused on #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:52:43 PM RT @jo_sayers: @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 so often the case with rare tenses in overengineered activities that never happen in rea…
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:52:45 PM RT @LeaSobocan @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden teach sts how 2give e.o. good fb #eltchat - yes! + stop st. use of "U shouldn't have" etc
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:53:12 PM @theteacherjames I first ask their peers to provide feedback..then it's my turn  #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:53:21 PM @Shaunwilden @rapple18 Natural use needs a lot of repetition over a number of levels - that's why SS using TL isn't always freer! #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:54:20 PM RT @HanaTicha: @theteacherjames I first ask their peers to provide feedback..then it's my turn  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:54:37 PM RT @sandymillin: @Shaunwilden @rapple18 Natural use needs a lot of repetition over a number of levels - that's why SS using TL isn't always…
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:54:56 PM @MicaelaCarey Not just younger learners! That's why it's important to show our SS where/how they can practise outside class #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:54:58 PM @MajaJerkovic Yes, makes a lot of sense. #ELTChat
LeaSobocan 10/16/2013 10:55:08 PM @rapple18 @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden draw rubric+they note 1good+1bad thing frm each area, focus especially on pron,politen ess #eltchat
jo_sayers 10/16/2013 11:55:17 PM @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 the difference between 'learning' and 'acquiring' some new language #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:55:22 PM RT @LeaSobocan: @theteacherjames @rapple18 @Shaunwilden Agreed, time 2 teach sts how to give eachother good fb works for all in the long te…
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:55:49 PM @jo_sayers Indeed :) #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:55:51 PM @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 That's why freer practice should be a level or two below  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:56:18 PM RT @HanaTicha: @sandymillin @Shaunwilden @rapple18 That's why freer practice should be a level or two below  #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:56:26 PM @HanaTicha I write up things that need correcting on the board & ask them to do it. #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:56:31 PM RT @HanaTicha freer practice should be a level or two below #eltchat very good point, often forgotten. Hard for lower levels too!
Marisa_C 10/16/2013 11:56:33 PM @HanaTicha interesting theory - why would you say that? #eltchat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 10:56:48 PM RT @Marisa_C: One of the probls with feedback is that it usually goes for the jugular - the grammar - there's lots more to give fb on #eltc…
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:56:54 PM @HanaTicha We often expect SS to produce complicated lang freely when they've just seen it for the first time! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:57:01 PM As we approach the end we need a volunteer for the summary #eltchat
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:57:22 PM @LeaSobocan @theteacherjames @Shaunwilden re 1good+1bad thing: good focus idea, and often much more effective from peers than Ts. #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:57:22 PM @Marisa_C If you want to be fluent you have to be 110% sure of the lang used  #eltchat not my theory :-)
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:57:52 PM @sandymillin Exactly!  #eltchat
josipa74 10/16/2013 10:58:08 PM Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way or working due for an overhaul? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 10:58:21 PM RT @josipa74: Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way or working due for an overhaul? #eltchat
MicaelaCarey 10/16/2013 10:58:42 PM @theteacherjames @HanaTicha #eltchat excellent feedback activity!  Ss-focused and memorable for them.
rapple18 10/16/2013 8:59:24 PM @HanaTicha @Marisa_C "110% sure" Good theory tho, - but that's the beauy of the c'rm .. if it's safe :) .. they can drop below!  #eltchat
sandymillin 10/16/2013 11:59:47 PM @josipa74 Possibly. Any preferences? It's quite linked to PPP (present-practice-produce) and many other models are available #eltchat
HanaTicha 10/16/2013 10:59:47 PM @MicaelaCarey @theteacherjames From my experience ss can spot 99% of their peers' errors themselves  #eltchat
ELTchat 10/16/2013 11:00:01 PM Do we have a volunteer to do the summary? You're free to do it how you wish! #ELTChat
theteacherjames 10/16/2013 11:00:01 PM Do we have a volunteer to do the summary? You're free to do it how you wish! #ELTChat
josipa74 10/16/2013 11:00:10 PM Isn't the Controlled/ Free Practice 'paradigm'/ way of working due for an overhaul? Any ideas? #eltchat
sandymillin 10/17/2013 12:00:39 AM @theteacherjames Wish I could, but still settling in here. Next time I make it to the chat, I'll do the summary! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10/16/2013 11:00:46 PM And that's the hour, lively #eltchat tonight and perhaps some themes for future chats nite all
jo_sayers 10/17/2013 12:00:57 AM @rapple18 @HanaTicha @Marisa_C I don't really agree with the 110% sure, it's fluent when it requires no thought at all #eltchat
sandymillin 10/17/2013 12:00:59 AM Night all #eltchat

 

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