| Shaunwilden |
Evening all #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @SueAnnan Good evening everyone - are we #eltchat ting? |
| Marisa_C |
Hya @Shaunwilden - ANyone else around? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
Hi everyone, it's great to be back. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
@Shaunwilden Hello there! Missed #eltchat! |
| Marisa_C |
@theteacherjames @worldteacher @naomishema Hey!! Great to see you #eltchat - missed it too :-) |
| Marisa_C |
Seen @thornburyscott 's new blog 'The (de-) fossilization diaries http://t.co/94EMNvgswy before/after #ELTchat ?? |
| SueAnnan |
@shaunwilden Is there anybody there? #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C yes just been reading it very enjoyable and and interesting #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
Hey 24 ppl voted for this topic where are you ???? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C Hiya boss! :-D #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Me, too - just reading it now. #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
Nice to see the usual suspects here #ELTchat |
| DaveDodgson |
RT @gret: Please leave some comments on my 5th graders' blogs! #comments4kids #eltchat #edchat http://t.co/rE4ue7iKXg |
| EspinosaTeach |
RT @ELTchat: #ELTchat in one hour - we'll be talking about fossilization - Join us |
| Marisa_C |
@theteacherjames Hi there - long time .... good to get going again - new - 3rd Birthday on the 15th!!! Celebrations ideas??? #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C Didn't vote for it, but happy to talk about it - was a big problem with my students in Vietnam. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@SueAnnan hi you most suspicious character - spotted you straight away #eltchat |
| CliveSir |
Hope I'm allowed a quick spam of #eltchat! Pls chk out #RSCON4 http://t.co/IKQrFpOaqL - big free ed e-conference in one month's time :) |
| naomishema |
@Marisa_C @theteacherjames #eltchat's third birthday? You mean it started only a few months before I got on board? Missed that... |
| SueAnnan |
@marisa_c Lovely to 'see' you #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
@worldteacher How so Andrea? what evidence? #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C Hi. I've just found out about the topic! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@naomishema @theteacherjames yes ! #eltchat we didn't have a party on the 2nd birthday guess we were working or sth silly like that |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C 10+ years of poor English teaching - sts come to uni with errors so fossilized - very difficult to correct. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@HanaTicha Welcome #eltchat join us |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C I know 3 years, can you believe it? #ELTchat |
| naomishema |
@Marisa_C @theteacherjames work gets in the way, doesn't it? LOL! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@worldteacher So you're saying it's maybe a result of poor instruction rather than a stumbling block in one's interlanguage #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C In my case in Vietnam - yes. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C @worldteacher I dont think it can solely be blamed on poor instruction #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@worldteacher @Marisa_C Were they victims of a very non-communicative approach to language learning? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
RT @Shaunwilden: @Marisa_C @worldteacher I dont think it can solely be blamed on poor instruction #eltchat > agree not only or may be at all |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Not solely - lack of exposure to authentic English too. #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
@shaunwilden I agree with Shaun. Sometimes when students feel that they can be understood they stop learning much #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C @worldteacher well in my own experiences I would blame a bit of it on instruction but most of it on me #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @worldteacher Agree. It must be in the head. #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@theteacherjames @Marisa_C Yes - that is a huge problem. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
When observing young children acquire L1 u c that their early errors take a long time 2 go despite rapid acquisition of new lang #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @worldteacher Teaching some up ints at the mo, I can see the things that will be fossilised if I don't act. #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
Some useful terms in wikipedia - http://t.co/GZpqGEIg7M #eltchat interlanguage also on same page in case new to u |
| MarjorieRosenbe |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Am hete in US-getting teady to leave for airport to fly back to Europe. Hopefully next week. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@naomishema but children not observed to suffer from this in their L1 acquisition - this simply a matter of RATE #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@MarjorieRosenbe @Marisa_C safe flight #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
RT @Marisa_C: Some useful terms in wikipedia - http://t.co/GZpqGEIg7M #eltchat interlanguage also on same page in case new to u |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C Thanks, Marisa. You might come across some interlanguage now that I'm under pressure to react quickly :-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
So in L2 acquisition rate seems to have stopped for certain items - not everything I am assuming #eltchat - motivation/exposure to blame? |
| Marisa_C |
@HanaTicha lol no worries - the things we type in here sometimes ....#eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C i am not sure its just an L2 thing I have fossilised errors in l1 from too much exposure to students errors :-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Shaunwilden Interesting #eltchat - I hear many Ts say "Let's discuss about this" after too much teaching :-) |
| naomishema |
RT @Shaunwilden: I have fossilised errors in l1 from too much exposure to students errors :-) #eltchat > I can identify with that! |
| Marisa_C |
So how do we know fossilization has set in - if it has? #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C I'm an L2 learner myself so yes, I'd blame it on the lack of exposure and motivation #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C haha, definitely have to be on my guard about that! #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
RT@Shaunwilden:i'm not sure its just an L2 thing I have fossilised errors in l1 from too much exposure to students errors :-) #eltchat >LOL |
| Marisa_C |
How do we know it's not just a stage - and does it matter what we call it? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C good question, i think with my czech sts it became instinctive #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C That you can't express what you wish you express. Sense of frustration...wanting more but unable to move #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C I look for inappropriate errors for the level. Classics here include confusing he/she, unvoiced word endings etc. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
I think you need to make a concious effort to "unlearn" something - much harder than learning something brand new. #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C When error correction is totally ineffective #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@naomishema agreed but with my fossilised errors my sts would know what they've got wrong immediately after they did it #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@HanaTicha I think F/on refers more to persistent errors of various kinds rather than inability to do some things #eltchat |
| naomishema |
@Shaunwilden not sure what you mean. You've made the students aware that they are mistaken even though they continue 2 err? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
RT @worldteacher: @Marisa_C When error correction is totally ineffective #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
RT @theteacherjames: @Marisa_C I look for inappropriate errors for the level. Classics here include confusing he/she, unvoiced word endings… |
| Shaunwilden |
@naomishema sorry i didn't think i had expressed it well, yes thats what i meant #eltchat |
| naomishema |
@Shaunwilden :) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Shaunwilden you mean they are self aware but unable to self correct or fix error? #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C True. But I'd say you can be fully aware of F/on...that's what I mean...do you agree? #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
We have lots of Madeirans living here- with loads of fossils. They learn from listening as many can't read and write #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C Yes, it was so engrained the wrong thing came out even though they knew it was wrong #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@HanaTicha Not sure all learners can - don't know enough about this - not enough empirical evidence either #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@SueAnnan interesting #eltchat - some ppl compare this to pidginization |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Same thing in my experience - could correct themselves when error was pointed out. #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C That's why Scott T. started his new blog..he is fully aware of his f/on and wants to examine it and change it.. #eltchat |
| web20education |
Partners in Learning Network-discussion about #startup #edtools http://t.co/9V2GdmQd8w #edchat #engchat #eltchat #tlchat #msftpil #tcdisrupt |
| Marisa_C |
So what options does a teacher have and what options does a learner have? #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
@marisa_c yes. I suppose it is a kind of pidgin. They cope, but it is impossible to help them relearn #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C And dare i say does it really matter? #eltchat |
| web20education |
Sharing list of 'My favorite Top 20 + ipad apps to #mlearning discovered through #tcdisrupt http://t.co/wx1zpau5Rp #cpchat #eltchat #edchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C It does if it impedes communication #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Shaunwilden Don't think it does - let's think of some action #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C I think it needs to be talked about honestly & openly. Identify the problems & be strict with them, in a nice way! #ELTchat |
| naomishema |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden drilling? #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
With my sts, their fossilized errors meant they were only comprehensible to each other - not to their teachers or other NNSs #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Akevy613 #eltchat - do jump in - yes we are indeed all learners |
| Marisa_C |
@theteacherjames Agree - in most cases Ss don't even know they have this prob #eltchat |
| Akevy613 |
@Marisa_C I guess then can you clarify your question #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@naomishema @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Drilling is good, as is tons of repetition. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@naomishema @Shaunwilden Some drilling may be needed - esp if pronunciation issues - or to memorize some chunks #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden 1 Make students aware 2 motivate to change 3 provide strategies #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@worldteacher yes if it gets in the way then of course but often they don't and the time focusing on it might be better spent #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
RT @HanaTicha: @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden 1 Make students aware 2 motivate to change 3 provide strategies #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Akevy613 we are discussing a specific topi "fossilization" Sorry but you have to go back through the chat #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
In our experience, 'my favourite errors' posters were somewhat effective in overcoming fossilized errors. #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C Yes, or they don't have a clue how to deal with it. That's when we have to earn our money. #ELTchat |
| SueAnnan |
RT @worldteacher: In our experience, 'my favourite errors' posters were somewhat effective in overcoming fossilized errors. #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden Agreed! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@worldteacher is this teacher created? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Akevy613 http://t.co/nP2z80b1GR this is an organised chat #eltchat - check out blog if interested :-) |
| naomishema |
RT @worldteacher: In our experience, 'my favourite errors' posters were somewhat effective in overcoming fossilized errors. #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden No - student created (but with some teacher input if sts don't recognise their own errors!) #eltchat |
| fionaljp |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Isn't that the key? Does it matter? If yes, learner may be motivated to do something about it. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@worldteacher @Shaunwilden So posters - could be posters with post-its when error fixed post-it comes off #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
Having error posters on the walls led to much more peer correction #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
RT @Marisa_C: @worldteacher @Shaunwilden So posters - could be posters with post-its when error fixed post-it comes off #eltchat >Yes! |
| Marisa_C |
@worldteacher this may be easier on a lino.it or wallwisher #eltchat but posters all good too |
| worldteacher |
@fionaljp @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Yes - sounds cruel, but we had to show our sts that their errors were making them incomprehensible #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
@Marisa_C @worldteacher I think having it visible on the wall is a good reminder #eltchat |
| naomishema |
RT @worldteacher: posters with post-its when error fixed post-it comes off #eltchat >GREAT!! But post its can fall off on their own, beware! |
| naomishema |
RT @SueAnnan: @Marisa_C @worldteacher I think having it visible on the wall is a good reminder #eltchat |
| naomishema |
RT @Marisa_C: @worldteacher this may be easier on a lino.it or wallwisher #eltchat but posters all good too |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C Perhaps, but my last teaching environment was decidedly low-tech! :-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
Do you ever play back recordings of an activity ss did 1 mnth or 2 mths ago? #eltchat just to track progress? |
| Marisa_C |
@naomishema @worldteacher lol u re right #eltchat blutak then |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C This is something I really want to try in my new job! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@worldteacher @Marisa_C where's your new job? #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
@worldteacher Where are you working now? #ELTchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C Today I gave my ss essays they wrote before the holidays (without any corrections). They could clearly some of the errors #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Noginsk, near Moscow - start Oct 1st #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
Make a checklist of such errors and have some Ss monitor and keep count - error makers ideally for awareness #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C a nice idea to play back, do you think it helps with fossilisation? #eltchat |
| SueAnnan |
@worldteacher @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C WoW. Sounds interesting #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@HanaTicha great idea to get Ss to correct first - do u use a code or a colour coding system? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@worldteacher quite the change from your last country! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@Shaunwilden I don't really know - but if there is no progress at all it is an issue no? #eltchat |
| jaluribe |
RT @BrunoELT: How To Teach ´Great Openings´ for Presentations In English http://t.co/9RcoY0K808 #elt #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C Mostly code.#eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C yes it would be #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@SueAnnan @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Yes, looking forward to being back in the classroom! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@SueAnnan @worldteacher @Shaunwilden just thought it up - haven't tried it yet #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
@Marisa_C That's an interesting idea if you have the right group dynamic. Could really work. #ELTchat |
| worldteacher |
@Shaunwilden It certainly is! My husband's got to buy some long trousers!! :-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@theteacherjames I ve done this with TL - like in story telling count up the number of correct narrative tenses #eltchat might work |
| theteacherjames |
@HanaTicha @Marisa_C I stopped using code, most students can identify most of their errors without one, I've found. #ELTchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C Just been learning about counting errors in John Fanselow's Breaking Rules course. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
@theteacherjames really?!! What is your secret? Most of mine don't identify their own errors! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@naomishema @theteacherjames because they can't or won't? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
RT @worldteacher: @Marisa_C Just been learning about counting errors in John Fanselow's Breaking Rules course. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
RT @HanaTicha:Online recording devices or ss' mobile phones are great tools for uncovering fossilized errors ss would never realise #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
online recording strings too like in voxopop leave a record of a group's progress and this should be discussed from time 2 time #eltchat |
| naomishema |
@Shaunwilden Either really can't or, its like proofreading. u can't proofread own work because in head U know what it should say #eltchat |
| jaluribe |
RT @oyajimbo: Top 10 Strategies for a Stress-free Classroom http://t.co/DZthv6zZO5 via @OUPELTGlobal #YLE #ELTChat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C Good point - have used Voxopop, but never had the same groups together for long enough for useful review/reflection. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
Sorry didn't clarify. thinking more about written work as I teach reading oriented classes (either academic purposes or deaf kids) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
If Ss keep a portfolio, useful to review in 1-2-1 tutorial mode maybe? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
@Marisa_C yes would be good for that #eltchat |
| naomishema |
RT @Marisa_C: If Ss keep a portfolio, useful to review in 1-2-1 tutorial mode maybe? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
Any last words of wisdom?#eltchat |
| yearinthelifeof |
@ShellTerrell sayeth Thank you! #30GoalsEdu:  Goal 15: Thank them! of The 30 Goals Challen... http://t.co/g8TjbI9zoJ #ELT #ELTchat #ESL |
| theteacherjames |
@Shaunwilden @naomishema Most of the time it's enough to say â€that's an error". They look at it & have an idea of what is wrong. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
Do u think testing - progress tests that is - can motivate anyone to defossilize? #eltchat |
| HanaTicha |
@Marisa_C Depends on what they test #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C I'm sure it can in some cases, but not much success with our sts in VN - very frustrating for both sts and teachers! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
@worldteacher yet a bit more evidence that tests don't motivate? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
Well, I hope some ideas were useful in this first #eltchat - may I ask if one of our star bloggers wishes to summarise? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
RIght time to say goodnight :-) #eltchat |
| naomishema |
Good night all! #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
@Marisa_C Don't know about 'star blogger', but happy to take it!! #ELTCHAT |
| Marisa_C |
RT @Shaunwilden: RIght time to say goodnight :-) #eltchat > need a summary please |
| theteacherjames |
Do we have a volunteer to fossilise these tweets into a summary? #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
Sorry, don't know why #eltchat got capitalised then - didn't mean to shout!! |
| worldteacher |
@theteacherjames I volunteered, James. #eltchat |
| fionaljp |
@theteacherjames @Shaunwilden @naomishema + '' Is it an error you have made before?'' to encourage ownership/ awareness #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
RT @worldteacher: @Marisa_C Don't know about 'star blogger', but happy to take it!! #ELTCHAT @Shaunwilden star she is |
| theteacherjames |
@worldteacher Thanks!! #ELTchat |
| worldteacher |
Will get to the summary on Friday - busy day with Russian visas tomorrow! #eltchat Thanks everyone for a great first chat back! :-) |
| Marisa_C |
Thanks to all who showed up for this #ELTchat and looking forward to the summary by @worldteacher |
| theteacherjames |
Thanks for a great chat everyone, it's good to be back! And thanks to my colleague @subnuggurat who shared this #eltchat with me (his 1st!) |
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