| teflerinha |
2:03 PM |
@Shaunwilden @jo_sayers #eltchat Thinking of them... |
| jo_sayers |
2:04 PM |
@teflerinha @Shaunwilden Ah yes, is it this very moment happening? #ELTchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:04 PM |
Hello everyone, looking forward to another great chat. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:05 PM |
@efl101 its based on this blog http://t.co/94U3t9LGBy #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:05 PM |
What was the topic exactly? |
| teflerinha |
2:05 PM |
@jo_sayers @Shaunwilden #eltchat Depends where in the world you are, I guess, but there or thereabouts. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:05 PM |
@jo_sayers @teflerinha Yes it will still be going on I guess #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:06 PM |
@jo_sayers @efl101 yes agreed, was just giving time for people to join and or read #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:06 PM |
@efl101 this post http://t.co/ngT0tjzzln #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:06 PM |
@Shaunwilden @efl101 #eltchat Think that raises a lot of didfferent questions though, so maybe we need a concrete starting place? |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:07 PM |
@efl101 and planning for who ... or is that for whom? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:07 PM |
#eltchat I like the point @stevebrown70 raised about preparation vs preparedness (though I don't think it's a vs myself) |
| efl101 |
2:07 PM |
blog quickly read ;-) question is to plan or not to plan? #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:08 PM |
#ELTchat hello all - taking a break from #occupygezi :) |
| Shaunwilden |
2:08 PM |
Ok so there are two starting points - is planning the same as preparedness and do we need to plan at all?#eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:08 PM |
I put the statements into a survey and wrote some of the results here http://t.co/W3iRXMpwST #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:08 PM |
@teflerinha @shaunwilden @jo_sayers I'm here buy on my phone so expect more typos and less sense than usual #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:09 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat depends on several factors, perhaps starting with teacher's experience. we all remember making MASSIVE LPs as newbies! |
| teflerinha |
2:09 PM |
#eltchat Planning isn't the same as preparedness, but I think we need both #ballrolling |
| efl101 |
2:09 PM |
I think planning becomes preparedness with experience? #eltchat |
| muranava |
2:09 PM |
lurky lurky #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:09 PM |
http://t.co/0qwb4EjfHB #eltchat Link to Adrian Underhill's talk on preparedness- though don't start watching now! |
| harrisonmike |
2:10 PM |
“@muranava: lurky lurky #eltchatâ€snap |
| jo_sayers |
2:10 PM |
@Shaunwilden I'd say planning some lessons moves us towards being more prepared for all lessons #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:10 PM |
RT @efl101: I think planning becomes preparedness with experience? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:11 PM |
@teflerinha Doesn't lesson planning make a teacher prepared then? #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:11 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @efl101: I think planning becomes preparedness with experience? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:11 PM |
@jo_sayers @Shaunwilden #eltchat. Agree, but I don't think planning is something just for newbies (though it gets faster, and less on paper) |
| Shaunwilden |
2:12 PM |
@harrisonmike @teflerinha Yes i agree that over planning makes one less prepared and less flexible #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:12 PM |
@Shaunwilden @teflerinha for the lesson yes, and then in a broader sense too (ie understanding of structures that work etc) #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:12 PM |
@Shaunwilden @teflerinha over planning can make you less prepared 'it isn't going as I planned PANIC' #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:12 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat It's part of it, as planning makes u think things through- hence important. Bt also need to be prepared for unexpected |
| efl101 |
2:12 PM |
I would also guess most sts (esp. paying ones) would expect a degree of planning from a teacher maybe… #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:13 PM |
@harrisonmike true saw a 5 hr lesson plan today that included what teacher would say word for word at every point!!!? was kinda sad #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:13 PM |
@Shaunwilden @teflerinha not saying that is the correct mentality to have, but it happens esp imd for new teachers #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:13 PM |
@harrisonmike @Shaunwilden Isn't that more about your beliefs about the plan than the fact that you've done one or not? #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:13 PM |
@Shaunwilden When I was beginning my teaching career planning helped. With experience I needed less planning. #eltchat |
| AnneHendler |
2:14 PM |
Hi everyone... What is the rational behind the infamous CELTA lesson plans? #ELTchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:14 PM |
@teflerinha @shaunwilden the problem is that minute by minute planning is indoctrinated in ITT #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:14 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal I think training courses make teachers overplan to be honest #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:14 PM |
@teflerinha @Shaunwilden Maybe that comes with experience; dealing with lots of 'unexpected' so that you've got strategies etc. #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:14 PM |
@harrisonmike @Shaunwilden #eltchat Oh, yes, I agree, but think new ts more likely to panic whatever..I certainly did. |
| michaelegriffin |
2:14 PM |
MT @efl101: I would also guess most sts would expect a degree of planning from a teacher maybe…>>How do they know? (real question) #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:15 PM |
@AnneHendler It's way of showing that a trainee can analyse language, has taken on board input etc #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:15 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal I think training courses make teachers overplan to be honest #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:15 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @teflerinha @shaunwilden the problem is that minute by minute planning is indoctrinated in ITT #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:15 PM |
@efl101 related note: i think scripting common classroom instruction esp with lower levels is very useful planning #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:15 PM |
@harrisonmike @shaunwilden #eltchat Aha! Here we go... ;) But planning in ITT serves a different function than planning in 'real life'. |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:15 PM |
@michaelegriffin I think teachers sense if a teacher is prepared and that may be based on having a lesson plan. #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:16 PM |
#ELTchat after reading Secret DOS' blog about lesson planning,began thinking of factors that make successful lesson: http://t.co/YOGCFmol7P |
| michaelegriffin |
2:16 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal and by teachers you mean students? #eltchat |
| jo_cummins |
2:16 PM |
@AnneHendler Isn't it to make Ts think about what they are doing as opposed to saying this is what you must do for every class? #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:16 PM |
@teflerinha @shaunwilden I still do sometimes!! :D #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:16 PM |
@AnneHendler #eltchat. To get ts to think about why they are planning each stage and how it relates to the whole- and for obs to c thinking |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:16 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal I think training courses make teachers overplan to be honest #eltchat - I agree - horrible memories |
| Shaunwilden |
2:17 PM |
RT @jo_cummins: I always make a lesson plan. I don't always follow it. I often don't even look at it. #eltchat |
| jo_cummins |
2:17 PM |
I always make a lesson plan. I don't always follow it. I often don't even look at it. #eltchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
2:17 PM |
I find that my degree of planning depends on the subject #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:17 PM |
@harrisonmike @shaunwilden #eltchat Me too- when I relaise plan for 3 hour cover class is completely unsuitable..er...now what? |
| jo_sayers |
2:17 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal @Shaunwilden But the overplanning helped me with the not planning later, I think it has its worth #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:17 PM |
So from the blog post are there any of the statements that you feel are a must do? #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:17 PM |
@teflerinha @shaunwilden true, true, but it does create the mentality that a written plan is necessary -not always true #eltchat |
| nroberts88 |
2:18 PM |
@Shaunwilden that every lesson must have a purpose #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:18 PM |
RT @jo_cummins: I always make a lesson plan. I don't always follow it. I often don't even look at it. #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:18 PM |
@michaelegriffin 4 inexperienced teachers = more obvious bt lack of planning (scripted or simply thought through) often clear imo #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:18 PM |
@jo_sayers @OUPELTGlobal @Shaunwilden #eltchat Yes, I don't think, at that stage, that is overplanning. It's like learning scales for piano |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:18 PM |
@michaelegriffin oops, yes students #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:19 PM |
@harrisonmike agreed re-scripting but ability to improvise and allow for unexpected is imp. or becomes a tad robotic? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:19 PM |
RT @nroberts88: @Shaunwilden that every lesson must have a purpose #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:19 PM |
@jo_cummins #eltchat Good point. It's the process of planning, thinking stuff through, that's most important- not necc. following plan |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:19 PM |
RT @TeacherAlan1: I find that my degree of planning depends on the subject #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:20 PM |
@serreym @harrisonmike @Shaunwilden #eltchat Some courses all teaching is observed (Don't forget hashtag) :) |
| Shaunwilden |
2:20 PM |
@efl101 @harrisonmike I think it depends on extent of script, It can be def helpful in terms of ensuring clarity in the classroom #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:20 PM |
@efl101 @harrisonmike #eltchat Again, process of writing clear instructions is a learning process whether u follow exactly or not. |
| jo_sayers |
2:20 PM |
@TeacherAlan1 Yes, how well you know the subject, how familiar you are with it etc. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:21 PM |
@jo_sayers @nroberts88 Though the objectives might change once you have made the plan #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:21 PM |
@serreym celta and delta (and PGCE) in my experience are minuted #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:21 PM |
@nroberts88 @Shaunwilden Yes, the need for objectives too #eltchat other wise what are you planning? |
| pjgallantry |
2:21 PM |
#eltchat you've got to know the 'rules' of a lesson, before you can bend/break them - hence why Lesson planning is important for new Ts. |
| teflerinha |
2:22 PM |
@harrisonmike @shaunwilden #eltchat Agree- trainers need 2 saythat this level of deatil unfeasible with full timetable- & explain rationale |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:22 PM |
@pjgallantry Yes, have to admit that all the planning I did helped in later years, but it didn't feel great at the time #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:22 PM |
@teflerinha @serreym @harrisonmike @Shaunwilden All of it? Busy teacher trainers! #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden @harrisonmike but if includes things like - "say to sts 'how are you today?' then becomes an auto cue not a script? #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:22 PM |
@efl101 oh I agree. Sometimes the script is too complicated as well #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:23 PM |
@Shaunwilden @efl101 @harrisonmike #eltchat CCQs are a good example of something that needs planning. Hard to do off cuff w/out experience |
| harrisonmike |
2:23 PM |
@efl101 @Shaunwilden I'm thinking more when setting up an activity or task #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:23 PM |
@serreym don't know - didn't observe lesson just was given lesson plan to look at (was taking over similar class for first time) #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:23 PM |
RT @ShaunwildenThough the objectives might change once you have made the plan >> Doesn't this call for a new plan then? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:23 PM |
@efl101 @harrisonmike yes agreed, but it can help instructions, task set up, making sure you ask the right CCQs etc #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:23 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden @jo_sayers @nroberts88 Though the objectives might change once you have made the plan #eltchat>True |
| Shaunwilden |
2:24 PM |
@michaelegriffin not necessarily,maybe e.g.u started thinking u were going to introduce & then on planning realise its more review #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:24 PM |
RT @teflerinha: #eltchat CCQs are a good example of something that needs planning. Hard to do off cuff w/out experience - agree. |
| jo_sayers |
2:24 PM |
@Shaunwilden @nroberts88 Yes, can do. But depends on how important those objvs are for the curriculum. Maybe they should lead #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:25 PM |
@Shaunwilden Aha i see what you mean, thanks. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:25 PM |
@harrisonmike @serreym @teflerinha doesn't have to be I always tried to timetable some unobserved #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:25 PM |
@pjgallantry #eltchat Yes, agree- & 2 learn microskills, like anticipating problems -may never occur, but thinking abt lang that way 1/2 |
| pjgallantry |
2:25 PM |
#ELTchat ....and the 2nd question, once we've established the 'what', is 'how?' |
| harrisonmike |
2:25 PM |
@serreym I think on celta all the teaching is observed (am I right? @teflerinha ) #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:25 PM |
#ELTchat think sometimes it's easy to forget that the 1st question we *should* ask is 'what are ss going to be able to do by end of lesson?' |
| jo_sayers |
2:25 PM |
@teflerinha @Shaunwilden @efl101 @harrisonmike but definitely becomes doable off cuff after a while. #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:26 PM |
2/2 ...helps new teachers see language from stds point of view, which is crucial. #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:26 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @teflerinha @Shaunwilden @efl101 @harrisonmike but definitely becomes doable off cuff after a while. #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:26 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @harrisonmike @serreym @teflerinha doesn't have to be I always tried to timetable some unobserved #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:26 PM |
@jo_sayers yes - amount and rigidity of planning is a function of experience - either years taught or familiarity of subject etc. #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:27 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal @jo_sayers @Shaunwilden @efl101 @harrisonmike #eltchat- agree bt planning at 1st is form of rehearsal, which helps. |
| efl101 |
2:27 PM |
@pjgallantry sts never able to do what I think they are going to be able to do - what they actually learn is constant surprise ;-) #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
2:27 PM |
@Shaunwilden that's really good. Celta trainees at my college often help out with classes outside their observed teaching practice #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:28 PM |
@efl101 @pjgallantry Really, as you get to know the class surely this gets easier? #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:28 PM |
Rt @colm_smyth I guess students can tell by structure of teacher's board work, teacher's composure & activity transition. #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:28 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal I think training courses make teachers overplan to be honest #eltchat True but good to know how :-) |
| efl101 |
2:28 PM |
@pjgallantry :-D #eltchat |
| muranava |
2:28 PM |
@willycard latest post is an amusing vignette on lesson planning blindness http://t.co/bEFpjmirzt #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:28 PM |
@efl101 @pjgallantry surely not a complete surprise, probably pretty close to what you'd hoped no? #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:28 PM |
@efl101 I sometimes think they do this on purpose just to annoy me :) #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:28 PM |
@Shaunwilden @harrisonmike @serreym #eltchat Agree unobs Tp very helpful, but may not be time on intensive course. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:29 PM |
@michaelegriffin @colm_smyth defintely not if they see some of my boards #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:29 PM |
@colm_smyth I am not convinced that students know "board work" is actually a thing. #ELTchat |
| teflerinha |
2:29 PM |
@serreym @harrisonmike @samshep @cathywint #eltchat But DTELLS isn't for people who've never taught before. Different.. |
| rliberni |
2:29 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @michaelegriffin I think teachers sense if a teacher is prepared and that may be based on having a lesson plan. #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:30 PM |
RT @michaelegriffin: @colm_smyth I am not convinced that students know "board work" is actually a thing. #ELTchat |
| teflerinha |
2:30 PM |
@hartle #eltchat Hi. Lesson planning |
| colm_smyth |
2:30 PM |
@michaelegriffin I mean more in relation to it having a coherence rather than a shotgun splatter of words/ideas all over the place #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:30 PM |
@Shaunwilden @efl101 of course - it's part of the act of the class 'acclimatizing' to each other #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:30 PM |
I think the imp thing about planning is that it ensures a progression from lesson to lesson #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:30 PM |
#eltchat hi all. Better late than never. Wht's the topic? |
| teflerinha |
2:30 PM |
@michaelegriffin @colm_smyth #eltchat Yes, no panicked micro-expressions! (or fewer) |
| harrisonmike |
2:30 PM |
RT @teflerinha: @OUPELTGlobal @jo_sayers @Shaunwilden @efl101 @harrisonmike #eltchat- agree bt planning at 1st is form of rehearsal, which … |
| harrisonmike |
2:30 PM |
RT @teflerinha: @serreym @harrisonmike @samshep @cathywint #eltchat But DTELLS isn't for people who've never taught before. Different.. |
| MrsC_teach |
2:31 PM |
RT @rliberni: Having said that u have to be prepared to throw it all in the air and be spontaneous from time to time #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:31 PM |
@rliberni #eltchat. Yes, and planning can of course also be retrospective (or a bit of both) |
| rliberni |
2:31 PM |
Having said that u have to be prepared to throw it all in the air and be spontaneous from time to time #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:31 PM |
@jo_sayers on serious note - I think predicting actual learning is much harder than we think and we r often wildly optimistic #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:32 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: Does planning inhibit sts from "interrupting" the teacher? going off the plan? #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:32 PM |
Does planning inhibit sts from "interrupting" the teacher? going off the plan? #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:32 PM |
RT @rliberni: I think the imp thing about planning is that it ensures a progression from lesson to lesson #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @efl101: planning to fail? i.e. how many escape routes do we have when it goes wrong? #eltchat humour is the best I find :-) |
| Shaunwilden |
2:32 PM |
@rliberni Hi Berni, long time no see #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:32 PM |
@teflerinha #eltchat thnx i think if you don't learn to plan irst you can't efficiently know how to improvise later. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:32 PM |
RT @rliberni: Having said that u have to be prepared to throw it all in the air and be spontaneous from time to time #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:32 PM |
planning to fail? i.e. how many escape routes do we have when it goes wrong? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:32 PM |
@efl101 @jo_sayers #eltchat Totally, agree, but still useful to have an idea what we'd like to achieve, and then be flexible. |
| pjgallantry |
2:33 PM |
you always have to factor in 'Factor X' into a LP - anything from Ss being unhappy over st to teacher having a screaming headache #eltchat |
| nroberts88 |
2:33 PM |
@efl101 'winged' lessons come with experience #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:33 PM |
@hartle #eltchat yes, that's my view too. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:33 PM |
@muranava Problematic how? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:33 PM |
@Shaunwilden Hello I know sooooo long :-( Great topic today #eltchat Good to see everyone |
| efl101 |
2:33 PM |
@rliberni run laughing from the room you mean? ;-) #eltchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
2:33 PM |
Is anyone required to show their lesson plans to admin? Or require your teaches to show them to you? #eltchat |
| muranava |
2:33 PM |
notion of planning and notions of syllabus , both problematic in language learning? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:33 PM |
#eltchat What I really DON'T like is planning a series of lessons in advance, or using last year's because can't respond 2 what happens |
| teflerinha |
2:34 PM |
@serreym @harrisonmike #eltchat That's a good tip, but for me timings are mostly about how realistic is what you plan to do for the time. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:34 PM |
@hartle but wouldn't you say that once experienced there is no real need to commit that paper? #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:34 PM |
@jo_sayers agree. #eltchat |
| colm_smyth |
2:34 PM |
@michaelegriffin not that I've done that... Now I take photos of my board work and review it when time comes to re-do same topic #eltchat |
| muranava |
2:34 PM |
@Shaunwilden in the sense that learning research shows learning is very messy? #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:34 PM |
@nroberts88 agreed but for new teachers - how much attention should you pay to back up and reserve planning? #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:34 PM |
@efl101 Yes, agree with the optimism bit, but in terms of what's acquired, It's probably not that surprising #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:34 PM |
@teflerinha I agree with that. Teacher should react to the students they have - different sts > different plans #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:34 PM |
#eltchat planning menas knowing why U are doing something, how to do it & for how long. All essential first steps 4 teachers |
| hartle |
2:35 PM |
RT @nroberts88: @efl101 'winged' lessons come with experience #eltchat exactly, like learning to drive. U need to know how it works 1st |
| muranava |
2:35 PM |
@Shaunwilden or accept the mess ;) #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:35 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle but wouldn't you say that once experienced there is no real need to commit that paper? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:35 PM |
RT @efl101: @rliberni run laughing from the room you mean? ;-) #eltchat Lol - no, but it's never the end of the world |
| Shaunwilden |
2:35 PM |
@muranava So add to the mess by not planning or having syllabi? #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:35 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Shouldn't necessarily, if the plan is good it can allow for this #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:36 PM |
does size of group impact amount of planning? #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:36 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle but wouldn't you say that once experienced there is no real need to commit that paper? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:36 PM |
@Shaunwilden @hartle the advantage of committing to paper is you can use again - adapted of course! #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:36 PM |
@Shaunwilden @hartle I find that the putting it on paper helps, even if I don't read, as @jo_cummins said earlier #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:36 PM |
@serreym @harrisonmike #eltchat And new teachers are usually pretty bad at estimating how much time things will take. |
| michaelegriffin |
2:36 PM |
My current thought is that lesson plans only get in the way if we let them. Ss don't feel blocked unless T blocks. etc etc etc. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:37 PM |
RT @efl101: does size of group impact amount of planning? #eltchat How so? |
| Shaunwilden |
2:38 PM |
@jo_sayers @muranava I suspect many private language schools don't even realise they have a syllabus :-) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:38 PM |
@teflerinha @serreym @harrisonmike I'm still quite bad at that! #eltchat |
| colm_smyth |
2:38 PM |
@michaelegriffin lesson plan can get in the way if adhered to religiously. I view it as a safety net - if going broken arrow tanks #eltchat |
| efl101 |
2:38 PM |
@Shaunwilden with group of say up to 10-12 people then unscripted is easier than with classes of 20+.. not sure myself just asking #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:38 PM |
@efl101 #eltchat Not sure it does for me..but usually have more up sleeve for 1-2-1 or small grps as activities can whizz! |
| michaelegriffin |
2:38 PM |
also interesting to note where diff. Ts' lines of course planning, lesson planning, reflecting, collecting materials begin and end #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:38 PM |
@rliberni @hartle I've never really used a lesson plan again, well not from paper anyway, though I certain things are in my memory #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:38 PM |
@muranava @Shaunwilden Maybe a really good syllabus embraces the mess! #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:39 PM |
@colm_smyth I'll just tell u what I saw in class today.Guilt free messy board work from me then neatly arranged in Ss' notebooks. #eltchat |
| muranava |
2:39 PM |
@jo_sayers @Shaunwilden indeed! likewise with a 'good' plan :) #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:39 PM |
@jo_sayers @serreym @harrisonmike #eltchat Not exact science because depends on gp. But 2 begin w/ ts often don't get past warmer! |
| rliberni |
2:39 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @Shaunwilden @hartle I find that the putting it on paper helps, even if I don't read, as @jo_cummins said earlier #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:39 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: #eltchat depends how many lessons U teach and How much U write. My plans maybe 5 lines, but still there, as a basis. |
| rliberni |
2:39 PM |
@teflerinha @serreym @harrisonmike I think learning to plan is a very imp part of becoming a teacher it grounds you while you learn #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:40 PM |
@jo_sayers @rliberni @Shaunwilden @hartle @jo_cummins #eltchat Yes, it's the *process* of planning that's key for me. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:40 PM |
RT @rliberni: @efl101 I don't think 'size matters' I would plan for even 1 student o #eltchat yes agree though I guess size effects timing |
| jo_sayers |
2:40 PM |
@efl101 @Shaunwilden I don't know if it differs that much. Size impacts more on activities imo, than on the need to plan #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:40 PM |
#eltchat with experience yr lesson plan is yr springboard into learning: a basis to start from. |
| rliberni |
2:40 PM |
@efl101 I don't think 'size matters' I would plan for even 1 student & frequently do #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:41 PM |
#eltchat particularly useful for new teachers to plan, and then learn to move away from plan meaningfully. Otherwise there may be anarchy. |
| jo_sayers |
2:41 PM |
@teflerinha @serreym @harrisonmike haha, yes. That's not a good look for an observed TP! #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:41 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat with experience yr lesson plan is yr springboard into learning: a basis to start from. |
| rliberni |
2:41 PM |
@Shaunwilden @hartle I have a standard framework which I can adapt and know it will be exactly right in terms of timing etc. #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:42 PM |
@teflerinha @efl101 agree, always have more or different especially for 1:1! #eltchat |
| OmarKettlewell |
2:42 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat particularly useful for new teachers to plan, and then learn to move away from plan meaningfully. Otherwise there may … |
| efl101 |
2:43 PM |
how often do you analyse/review plan after lesson 2 compare what actually happened &why & what u can learn etc? #eltchat (don't say always!) |
| hartle |
2:43 PM |
@jo_sayers #eltchat good observers shd know how to recognise systematic, meaningful improvisation: credit given 4 thinking on yr feet :-) |
| rliberni |
2:43 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @jo_sayers @muranava I suspect many private language schools don't even realise they have a syllabus :-) #eltchat :-( |
| rliberni |
2:43 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat particularly useful for new teachers to plan, and then learn to move away from plan meaningfully. Otherwise there may … |
| teflerinha |
2:44 PM |
@efl101 #eltchat Not that often, because I assume that lesson is likely 2 have differed a bit frm plan, and that's as it probably should be. |
| muranava |
2:44 PM |
Q fr anyone works with young lrnrs to adults, how does plans differ between age groups? less/ more structured? #eltchat |
| nroberts88 |
2:44 PM |
@efl101 for new teachers plan B is just as important as plan A #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:44 PM |
The last points on the blog post talks about the correlation between lesson planning skills and teaching skills - is there one? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:45 PM |
@muranava #eltchat For me, YLs more structured as downtime may cause problems- but also use a lot of routines tht happen automatically. |
| jo_sayers |
2:45 PM |
@efl101 Yes, I think you can learn as much from the reflection as the planning (more maybe?) But in answer, not often! #eltchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
2:45 PM |
RT @muranava: Q fr anyone works with young lrnrs to adults, how does plans differ between age groups? less/ more structured? #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:45 PM |
RT @hartle: @jo_sayers #eltchat good observers shd know how to recognise systematic, meaningful improvisation: credit given 4 thinking on y… |
| Shaunwilden |
2:45 PM |
@efl101 i did in my first few years as a teacher but then sort of fell out of the habit of noting it down #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:46 PM |
RT @efl101: #eltchat when I 1st started teaching I did a lot. Now, I analyse wht happens in class more, interactions btwn stds, successes |
| rliberni |
2:46 PM |
RT @efl101: how often do you analyse/review plan after lesson 2 compare what actually happened &why & what u can learn etc? #eltchat (don't… |
| rliberni |
2:46 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @efl101 i did in my first few years as a teacher but then sort of fell out of the habit of noting it down #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:46 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat Yes, I think there is bcos good plan shld see lesson from ss point of view and so shld good teacher |
| efl101 |
2:46 PM |
@Shaunwilden same but think it wld be interesting to see if there are patterns etc. but time often prevents proper reflection… #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:46 PM |
@Shaunwilden I've just joined the chat, but most of what I've seen suggests to me there is a correlation... #ELTchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
2:46 PM |
@muranava I definitely plan more for adults. #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:47 PM |
@Shaunwilden ... Can hear lots of good teachers talking about lots of good planning (& knowing when to abandon the plan!) #ELTchat |
| hartle |
2:47 PM |
RT @teflerinha: @Shaunwilden #eltchat Yes, I think there is bcos good plan shld see lesson from ss point of view and so shld good teacher |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:47 PM |
@muranava Always planned more for adults #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:47 PM |
@Shaunwilden I think planning is part of teaching...So, quite a lot! :) #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
2:48 PM |
@TeacherAlan1 @muranava Really? I reckon I planned more for YLs #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:48 PM |
#eltchat to quote the old phrase 'if you aren't planning to go anywhere, then you'll end up going nowhere!' |
| michaelegriffin |
2:48 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @michaelegriffin I am honestly wondering, thinking of newbies seen some great plans but not great execution #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:48 PM |
#eltchat I also plan if I'm writing article or presentation- trying 2 get a flow. Difference is article etc stays same, lesson just a basis |
| jo_sayers |
2:48 PM |
@nroberts88 @efl101 Yes, as long as they still have similar objectives. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:48 PM |
@michaelegriffin I am honestly wondering, thinking of newbies seen some great plans but not great execution #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:49 PM |
@michaelegriffin New teachers can focus too much on the plan and forget the aim is the teaching #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:49 PM |
@Shaunwilden @michaelegriffin #eltchat But those who can do gr8 plans usually do develop into gr8 ts eventually-in my exp. |
| jo_sayers |
2:49 PM |
@TeacherAlan1 @muranava No chance of just a nice long chat with YLs! #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:49 PM |
I used to keep my lesson plans thinking I would use them again - never did. But I think planning helped me remember them. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:50 PM |
RT @efl101: so lesson is 'no plan survives first contact - and that's as it should be' :-) thanks all for interesting #eltchat - gotta dash… |
| hartle |
2:50 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat to quote the old phrase 'if you aren't planning to go anywhere, then you'll end up going nowhere!' |
| efl101 |
2:50 PM |
so lesson is 'no plan survives first contact - and that's as it should be' :-) thanks all for interesting #eltchat - gotta dash now |
| rliberni |
2:50 PM |
Do ss know when things are unplanned (as opposed to unstructured)? I think they probably do #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:50 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @muranava Always planned more for adults #eltchat Why? |
| rliberni |
2:50 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat to quote the old phrase 'if you aren't planning to go anywhere, then you'll end up going nowhere!' gr8 point! |
| jo_sayers |
2:51 PM |
@rliberni Yes, I'd say so. And they know if you're feeling comfortable with how it's going too #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:51 PM |
@nroberts88 @muranava really? Is wrong the right word? :-) #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:51 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal @Shaunwilden What I am suggesting is that maybe planning is (an inseparable) part of this thing we call teaching. #ELTchat |
| cliffmanning |
2:51 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal I think training courses make teachers overplan to be honest #eltchat - I agree - horribl… |
| TeacherAlan1 |
2:51 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal I agree #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:51 PM |
RT @hartle RT @efl101: #eltchat ... I analyse wht happens in class more, interactions btwn stds, successes < Me too! |
| hartle |
2:51 PM |
#eltchat teaching complex & over dependence on plan typical at first, but gd tachers soon grow out of this and start to see thir stds. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:51 PM |
10 mins left to add your lesson planning thoughts #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:51 PM |
@rliberni I think adults followed me more than YLs and I had to know where I was leading them #eltchat |
| nroberts88 |
2:51 PM |
@muranava plan a lot more for YL as more is likely to go wrong! #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:51 PM |
@efl101 #eltchat Agree- and add, doesn't mean it wasn't a useful process. |
| teflerinha |
2:52 PM |
@hartle #eltchat Yes, like learning to drive. At first can't cope with gears, pedals AND looking at the road (!) |
| Shaunwilden |
2:53 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat i even plan my lunch, in my head... Of course I plan my lessons, even if it's in my head whilst swimming up &down the … |
| hartle |
2:53 PM |
#eltchat i even plan my lunch, in my head... Of course I plan my lessons, even if it's in my head whilst swimming up &down the pool |
| teflerinha |
2:53 PM |
@michaelegriffin @OUPELTGlobal @Shaunwilden #eltchat Yes, I think it is, but amount of planning will vary. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:54 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal So that would imply managers etc should help tchrs see the point of it #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:54 PM |
#eltchat Used to have to plan term's lessons in advance- always complete fabrication as could only have rough idea until saw how things went |
| yvetteinmb |
2:54 PM |
RT @seburnt: June 3 #EAPchat blog post - Useful webtools for EAP http://t.co/vrDeOhcj6r #cdnelt #adultesl #eltchat #edtech #auselt |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:54 PM |
From the comments here > planning is important. But I can't help but feel that it can be very demotivating when u r starting out #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:55 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal So that would imply managers etc should help tchrs see the point of it <<<THIS #eltchat |
| michaelegriffin |
2:55 PM |
I did not enjoyed this book the first 3 times I looked at it but now love it. http://t.co/qEWnrORK65 #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:55 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal #eltchat Support is important. On CELTA used to write quite detailed plans for ts at first as a model. |
| rliberni |
2:55 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat teaching complex & over dependence on plan typical at first, but gd tachers soon grow out of this and start to see thi… |
| rliberni |
2:55 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @michaelegriffin New teachers can focus too much on the plan & forget the teaching #eltchat true but part of the learning |
| rliberni |
2:55 PM |
@jo_sayers I also think that many of them feel that you are really supporting them when you have thought about what you are doing #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:55 PM |
@jo_sayers that's my experience too - they really know #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:55 PM |
@teflerinha Wow that looks like a paperwork exercise. Yes true how can u know!! #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:55 PM |
@Shaunwilden Definitely and provide some motivation #eltchat |
| mstrep |
2:56 PM |
#eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| rliberni |
2:56 PM |
@teflerinha once planned a whole (during TT) course as a work of fiction - weather so good ss never came #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:56 PM |
@jo_sayers #eltchat Dumb. |
| hartle |
2:56 PM |
RT @teflerinha: #eltchat Used to have to plan term's lessons in advance- always complete fabrication... Of course, but gives direction :-) |
| teflerinha |
2:56 PM |
@michaelegriffin #eltchat I think it's a great book too- as much about learners as about lessons |
| jo_sayers |
2:56 PM |
@teflerinha Yes, I worked at a place where we had to display all lessons for the week in class on Monday, v hard! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:56 PM |
As we get towards the end is there a willing summary writer? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
2:57 PM |
@cioccas #eltchat Exactly. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:57 PM |
RT @mstrep: #eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| teflerinha |
2:57 PM |
RT @mstrep: #eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| cioccas |
2:57 PM |
@teflerinha Yes! Can't plan far in advance when you're constantly changing to meet changing needs in the class #ELTchat |
| teflerinha |
2:58 PM |
#eltchat I could write summary if no other takers @michaelegriffin ? But probably not until next week #madbusy |
| hartle |
2:58 PM |
RT @mstrep: #eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:58 PM |
Sorry gotta go - thinking about lesson planning in a different light. Thx everyone #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:58 PM |
RT @cioccas: @teflerinha Yes! Can't plan far in advance when you're constantly changing to meet changing needs in the class #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
2:58 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @teflerinha Yes, I worked at a place where we displayed all lessons for the week on Monday, v hard! #eltchat how cruel :-( |
| michaelegriffin |
2:59 PM |
@teflerinha #ELTchat Ha...I was going to say I could do it in July if there are no takers. @jo_sayers ? |
| Mac_3G |
2:59 PM |
RT @mstrep: #eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| cioccas |
2:59 PM |
RT @mstrep: #eltchat Good #planning makes a good #teacher. Ability to improvise and adaptability make a great one. |
| michaelegriffin |
2:59 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: thinking about lesson planning in a different light. >>That is great. :) #eltchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
3:00 PM |
My first time at #eltchat. Very interesting to discuss with all of you. |
| Shaunwilden |
3:00 PM |
Thanks for a lively #eltchat, see some of you this evening at 21 BST |
| Mlle_Prof |
3:00 PM |
How do you approach vocabulary teaching? @thornburyscott highlights 5 important guiding principles. http://t.co/d4IrbqDIhq #ELTchat #esl |
| cioccas |
3:01 PM |
@michaelegriffin @teflerinha @jo_sayers I thought Jo was keen before the chat, but I'll also throw my hat in the ring :-) #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
3:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Thanks for a lively #eltchat, see some of you this evening at 21 BST |
| rliberni |
3:01 PM |
Must dash, gr8 to join today. Many thx to @shaunwilden 4 moderating (sorry, got a v slow connection today). Good topic :-) #eltchat |
| muranava |
3:01 PM |
thanks all :) #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
3:01 PM |
@TeacherAlan1 #eltchat It was fun, wasn't it? |
| TeacherAlan1 |
3:02 PM |
@teflerinha Once I figure out all this it'll be even better. #eltchat |
| cioccas |
3:02 PM |
@TeacherAlan1 Welcome! Please come again :-) #ELTchat |
| michaelegriffin |
3:02 PM |
thanks for the fun/informative (and fast!!) chat. Special thanks to @Shaunwilden for expert moderation and inspired topic choice. #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
3:03 PM |
@cioccas @michaelegriffin @teflerinha Ha! Well, I did my post pre-chat http://t.co/W3iRXMpwST ! #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
3:04 PM |
RT @jo_sayers: @cioccas @michaelegriffin @teflerinha Ha! Well, I did my post pre-chat http://t.co/W3iRXMpwST ! #eltchat |
| amyaishab |
3:05 PM |
RT @muranava: Q fr anyone works with young lrnrs to adults, how does plans differ between age groups? less/ more structured? #eltchat |
| TeacherAlan1 |
3:05 PM |
@jo_sayers @cioccas @michaelegriffin @teflerinha How many respondents did you have? #eltchat |
| teflerinha |
3:05 PM |
@cioccas @michaelegriffin @jo_sayers @Shaunwilden OK, me it is then. :) #eltchat |
| cioccas |
3:05 PM |
@teflerinha @michaelegriffin @jo_sayers Thx Rachael. Only joined in the last 15 mins so really looking forward to the summary! #eltchat |
| jo_sayers |
3:06 PM |
@teflerinha @cioccas @michaelegriffin @Shaunwilden Nice, well done! Thank you! #eltchat |
| cioccas |
3:07 PM |
Great #ELTchat everyone! Sorry I only made the end, but loved every minute! G'night :-) |
| jo_sayers |
3:07 PM |
Thanks all for another fun #ELTchat, see you next time. I'm off to look over old lesson plans! |
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