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Guessing Words from Context - is it a good thing

Page history last edited by Marisa Constantinides 10 years, 8 months ago

guessing words from context.xlsx

 

username date time status
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 1:57P.M. Is  guessing from context╬▓ a useful skill to teach? - this is our first #ELTchat topic in a few mins - thanks for voting -  Corpora   2nd
yitzha_sarwono 6/3/2013 1:58P.M. In 3 minutes #eltchat will start.
yitzha_sarwono 6/3/2013 1:58P.M. RT @Marisa_C: Is  guessing from context a useful skill to teach? - this is our first #ELTchat topic in a few mins - thanks for voting - ...
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:00P.M. Yes, that's right, I shall be gracing #eltchat  with my presence today..... long time no see
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:02P.M. Anyone else for #ELTchat? Roll call - no trolls please with their repetitive gobbledygook
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:02P.M. @yitzha_sarwono @TyKendall  #eltchat Welcome to both of you - long time no see :-)
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:03P.M. #eltchat Hi everyone- waiting for electrician who was supposed to be here an hour ago, so may suddenly disappear...
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:03P.M. I'm here. Just lurking tonight. #ELTchat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:03P.M. Hi there #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:04P.M. I'm here but mostly lurking... #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:04P.M. @prese1 hello and welcome @AnneHendleer no worries Anne @teflerinha #ELTchat Hi Rachael! @TyKendall will liven up i hope
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:04P.M. #eltchat  it's pretty quiet today huh
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:05P.M. I'm here. I was hoping to look at this strategy in depth with the rest of the #eltchat group. Words in context is useful approach at k-12.
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:05P.M. @jo_cummins hya - welcome  #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:05P.M. #eltchat I guess this topic might be in response to @EBEFL 's new blog post? http://t.co/T49adVc3qU
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:06P.M. RT @teflerinha: #eltchat I guess this topic might be in response to @EBEFL 's new blog post?  http://t.co/Uo5uKb06XP > indeed & nothere
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:06P.M. RT @Marisa_C: Is guessing from context  a useful skill to teach? - this is our first #ELTchat topic in a few mins
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:07P.M. @teflerinha Articles useful but no conclusive evidence methinks #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:07P.M. RT @Marisa_C: my first co-moderator - would you do me the honour of comoderating today? #ELTchat; If you'll have me :)
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:07P.M. #eltchat I was reading article which said lots of evidence that helps with L1, less so with L2 http://t.co/zaNiClwsBG
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:07P.M. @englishraven wow talk about long time no see my first co-moderator - would you do me the honour of comoderating today? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:08P.M. @englishraven Any time! Please welcome one of our first moderators and co-founder of #ELTchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:09P.M. RT @englishraven: 'Guessing' and 'context' - two of the most crucial ingredients in any sort of learning, I think! #ELTChat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:09P.M. 'Guessing' and 'context' - two of the most crucial ingredients in any sort of learning, I think! #ELTChat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:10P.M. @teflerinha I ask my >=intermediate efl students to guess from context before they actually look it up  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:10P.M. My tweetdeck is acting up a bit - #ELTchat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:11P.M. #eltchat  sorry I'm mostly lurking after intending on taking more of an active role - some work just came in...
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:11P.M. #eltchat Sometimes impossible to guess- important for teacher to think this through before asking.
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:11P.M. RT @teflerinha: #eltchat lots of evidence that helps with L1, less so with L2 -> Perhaps parameters of 'guessing' need to vary across L1/L2?
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:11P.M. @Marisa_C @teflerinha This puzzles me. Why would using gd rding strategy: (prediction, comprehension, argument) be less for L2? #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:11P.M. @Marisa_C #eltchat No, I agree. Personally think it's a useful strategy, but stds need to know most of other words first.
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:12P.M. RT @teflerinha: #eltchat Sometimes impossible to guess- important for teacher to think this through before asking -> Needs more scaffolding?
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:12P.M. #eltchat  and just to add something of relevance  - I use this strategy all the time in translation
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:13P.M. @englishraven Agree that which words to be guessed or possible to guess a question of T choice at first #ELTchat 
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:13P.M. @teflerinha @Marisa_C Yes, there is a % of known wds that must be had for Ss to use wds in context strategy but it is teachable! #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:13P.M. RT @TyKendall: #eltchat  and just to add something of relevance  - I use this strategy all the time in translation
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. RT @jo_cummins: not always about being able to guess correctly but a tool to get sts to examine texts more closely #eltchat #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. But density of unknown words a key factor - this is perhaps the main difficulty #ELTchat #eltchat
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. Looking up words in a dictionary is faster. Is there research that shows higher retention from guessing? #devilsadvocate #ELTchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. @jankenb2 @teflerinha I think this is where the EFL teacher comes in.  EFL Ss may need additional help to guess effectively. #ELTChat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. @englishraven Well, yes, perhaps, but sometimes there just aren't enough contextual clues. #eltchat Important to be selective I think.
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. @jankenb2 I do think highly teachable as well #ELTchat  #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:14P.M. not always about being able to guess correctly but a tool to get sts to examine texts more closely #eltchat #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:15P.M. @AnneHendler #eltchat Don't know one, but guess may make it more salient- also a lot quicker than dictionary if u're guessing and moving on.
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:15P.M. #eltchat Think of words in context as one tool of many in your literacy toolbox. Scaffold WiC with illustrations or pre-reading graphic org.
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:15P.M. #eltchat words can also be "guessed" from context (surrounding words) and internal structure (break word down into morphemes)
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. @AnneHendler I'm not sure it is faster. I think guessing can help with reading fluency once learnt. #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. RT @Marisa_C: @TyKendall morphological analysis (plus awareness of affixation) helpful in this respect #ELTchat 
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. RT @Marisa_C: @TyKendall morphological analysis (plus awareness of affixation) helpful in this respect #ELTchat >agree.
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. When I developed a CB unit showcasing 'guess word meanings from context', the surrounding text ended up a little too contrived... #ELTChat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. @Marisa_C Yes. It is very possible to have Ss "read" L2 text and because key vocab was not understood, entire meaning is lost. #eltchat.
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:16P.M. @TyKendall morphological analysis (plus awareness of affixation) helpful in this respect #ELTchat 
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:17P.M. @jo_cummins Agree with you. #ELTchat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:17P.M. Sometimes with txts from their SB...they seem to get the meaning and many times guess correctly. Depends on the level and group #eltchat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:17P.M. #eltchat  I'm often flabbergasted by a word I actually know but don't recognize because it's in a different word form than I'm used to
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. @englishraven Yes, agree. Harder than it appears to find guessable words. Praps about having good enough idea to keep reading #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. #Guessing from context imp. skill for learner autonomy (from T or dictionaries) #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. RT @Marisa_C: Sharing a training blog post of a while ago on perceiving logical connections in text http://t.co/clPbfbygdk  #ELTchat - h ...
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. Sharing a training blog post of a while ago on perceiving logical connections in text http://t.co/clPbfbygdk  #ELTchat - have seen it work
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. @teflerinha @Marisa_C @TyKendall For adults, morpho analysis is good b/c adults show gtr persistence & motive for abstract lrning. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:18P.M. RT @jo_cummins: @AnneHendler I'm not sure it is faster. I think guessing can help with reading fluency once learnt. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:19P.M. Perhaps things to avoid are either end of the spectrum - the learner with head in dictionary every 5 seconds versus Schmidt's Wes. #ELTChat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:19P.M. #eltchat where's lexical leo when you need him? I'm sure he'd have a interesting perspective w/lexical approach
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:19P.M. @prese1 Assessment then must include use of novel utterance to validate comprehension. It's useless to "think" we taught but didn't #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:20P.M. @TyKendall the lexical approach has no particular angle on this #eltchat but packing words in clusters a different issue  #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:20P.M. @jankenb2 @Marisa_C @TyKendall Yes, though kids can use it too- e.g. meaning of 'oct' in octopus, octogon etc. #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:21P.M. @englishraven @jankenb2 Yes, we can teach strategies- every little helps as they say.. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:21P.M. For this #ELTChat, I think defining/exploring 'context' is important... presentation/theme/whole text/paragraph/sentence level.
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:21P.M. @teflerinha yeah I suggested the topic and will be happy to do the write up #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. RT @jankenb2: @AlexandraKouk Part of learner autonomy is teaching them the line of questioning experts use. http://t.co/4arzFcNPiN  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. But fail miserably to apply it as a beginner learner #eltchat  #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. @AlexandraKouk Part of learner autonomy is teaching them the line of questioning experts use. http://t.co/4arzFcNPiN  #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. @englishraven #eltchat Excellent point!
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. Looks like most practitioners agree on the value of contextual guesswork- as an L2 learner myself use it daily! #ELTchat   #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:22P.M. RT @englishraven: For this #ELTChat, I think defining/exploring 'context' is important... presentation/theme/whole text/paragraph/senten ...
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:23P.M. @englishraven good point - if exploring morphology - very local - if logical connections, beyond sentence and paragrapg #eltchat #eltchat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:23P.M. @Marisa_C  #eltchat I'm just wondering if exercises with collocations/chunks could help train contextual guesswork.
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:23P.M. #eltchat sorry just back from a meeting. I have to say that I think it is a dubious "skill". Can we really reach it?
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:24P.M. RT @EBEFL: I think it is a dubious "skill". Can we really reach it? > Skill versus strategy? #ELTChat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:24P.M. @teflerinha @annehendler #eltchat quicker than a dictionary but less effective and with lower retention. More of a control mechanism?
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:24P.M. @TyKendall I would suggest that such exercises raise awareness of use rather than explore meaning #ELTchat  #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:24P.M. @EBEFL @teflerinha I am imaging it paining you to do the write up when everyone seems to support it, EB. :) #ELTChat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:24P.M. RT @Marisa_C: fail miserably to apply it as a beginner learner > Exc. pt: is there an ideal starting level point for guesswork? #ELTChat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:25P.M. @englishraven this is a key question - not easy or same for all languages e.g. me & Italian , no probs, me in Turkish, ugh #eltchat #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:25P.M. @michaelegriffin @EBEFL I semi- support it (ouch, fence). Useful strategy, and can be taught/encouraged, but not magic wand #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:25P.M. When we elicit vocab from Ss through visuals, mime etc. isn't it  very basic guesswork training? #eltchat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:25P.M. #eltchat I'm sure I've seen contextual guesswork on an MFL syllabus , but not an EFL one.
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:26P.M. @AnneHendler  #ELTchat Oh yeah, by what measure? Speaking as a language learner, I've always found that dictionaries slow me down ... 1/2
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:26P.M. RT @AlexandraKouk: When we elicit vocab from Ss through visuals, mime etc. isnt it  very basic guesswork training? #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:26P.M. @englishraven Munby lists it as a reading subskill but you could argue a metacognitive strategy as well #ELTchat  #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:26P.M. @englishraven @EDEFL I think more a strategy to prise sts away from dictionary and get them to think more about text than each word #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:27P.M. @TyKendall @Marisa_C If the content can be understood in L1 then collactions in L2 are gr8 w/complex text. Meaning links 2 pre know #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:27P.M. @teflerinha @EBEFL I like the low stakes nature of doing it in class as it is(i believe)good practice 4 what happens in real world #ELTCHAT
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:27P.M. @englishraven #eltchat I wonder if this perhaps is more something to give teachers a sense of "teaching" than improving learners english?
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:27P.M. @AlexandraKouk I think if you present visual or concept first it could be - but it is not in a context of use #ELTchat #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:27P.M. @jo_cummins @englishraven @EBEFL Absolutely. Reading with a dictionary in hand can be painfully slow and ss lose meaning as result #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:28P.M. The fact is, in real language use contexts, all L2 learners are going to be forced to guess at some point... #ELTChat
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:28P.M. @AnneHendler  #devilsadvocate #ELTchat 2/2 ...dreadfully. I may understand a few words better, but not the whole text.
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:28P.M. @EBEFL @annehendler #eltchat Ah, but what do we mean by effective? Effective reading, or effective vocab retention?
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. The question is whethertraining in class - which is a pretty standard set of techniques - carries over to real life #eltchat #eltchat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. @teflerinha @jo_cummins @englishraven @EBEFL in efl sts are encouraged to read texts/books at their level  #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. @michaelegriffin @teflerinha @EBEFL Good point. The give and take of BICS is gr8 for voc dev.  But for academic pre teach necessary.#eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. @Marisa_C @englishraven good point. Trying to 'guess' Chinese words is actually pretty much impossible for me #eltchat
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. @BobK99 I was thinking in terms of meaning - a wrong guess might be faster but when you realize its wrong still need the dictionary #ELTchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:29P.M. #eltchat Agree GFC isn't a good vocab learning technique, but I think it's more of a fluent reading strategy anyway.
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. RT @teflerinha: @EBEFL @annehendler #eltchat Ah, but what do we mean by effective? Effective reading, or effective vocab retention?
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. @AnneHendler @BobK99 Interesting strategy would be to have Ss write down 'best guess' then look up when confounded by later text. #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. @EBEFL @jo_cummins @englishraven Yes, I think that's also a valid strategy- again, unless it keeps coming up. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. @AnneHendler Guessing and mistakes - important for salience and noticing? Dictionaries rarely result in longer term retention. #ELTChat
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. #eltchat Useful skill to teach/have but should be stressed that it's a "last-chance saloon" strategy, not preferable to other strategies
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. @AnneHendler @BobK99 #eltchat Possibly, depends how important the word you guessed wrongly is. if it keeps reappearing, look it up, if not..
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:30P.M. @jo_cummins @englishraven why not just tell them to ignore unknown words? #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. @englishraven absolutely, so do we need to 'teach' it? If we don't, will they not guess? #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. RT: If you keep seeing it, try to guess, think you may be wrong and THEN look it up- excellent salience. ? TOTALLY AGREE #ELTChat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. @jankenb2 or look up in dictionary for confirmation AFTER guessing - which a useful dictionary use strat #eltchat  #eltchat
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. @englishraven true and good point, but does guessing? not in my experience as a learner.  #ELTchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. @englishraven @AnneHendler #eltchat If you keep seeing it, try to guess, think you may be wrong and THEN look it up- excellent salience.
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. RT @englishraven: .. in real language use contexts, all L2 learners R going 2 B forced 2 guess at sum point.. #ELTChat > so real life skill?
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:31P.M. @EBEFL sometimes painting out unknown words helps Ss guess #eltchat #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:32P.M. @EBEFL @Marisa_C @englishraven Any strategy is a continuum based on proficiency in L2 I am learning Lith & no strategy works yet! #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:32P.M. RT @teflerinha: @AnneHendler @BobK99 #eltchat Possibly, depends how important the word you guessed wrongly is. if it keeps reappearing,  ...
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:32P.M. #eltchat I never remember any vocabulary which has been spoon-fed to me by a dictionary, working it out myself helps me retain it
prese1 6/3/2013 2:32P.M. @TyKendall yes, not the best way to learn new vocab #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:32P.M. #ELTchat @AnneHendler @englishraven For me personally as a leaner (i guess) making a prediction and then getting feedback on it sticks well
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. @michaelegriffin  #ELTChat 'Support' it? I don't see how you can avoid it! Whether it's teachable, I'm not so sure.But guessing HAPPENS 1/2
yya2 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. VocabularyCoach :: vocabulary lists, games, and activities | @scoopit http://t.co/ISsVLmP4HF #langchat #ellchat #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. @AnneHendler Instructional design can factor in, IMO. If they can follow a guess through to an actual result/outcome, 'stickier'. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. @EBEFL true - a key question #eltchat - this should be researched - even informally  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. @teflerinha @annehendler @bobk99 absolutely agree with this. #eltchat in fact I tell my students this.
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:33P.M. RT @EBEFL: @englishraven absolutely, so do we need to 'teach' it? If we don't, will they not guess? #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. @yya2 is this relevant to our chat? #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. RT @CotterHUE: students come to class with many poor habits. Raising awareness for guessing, for example, important. #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. students come to class with many poor habits. Raising awareness for guessing, for example, important. #eltchat
mike08 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. RT @yya2: VocabularyCoach :: vocabulary lists, games, and activities | @scoopit http://t.co/ISsVLmP4HF #langchat #ellchat #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. @EBEFL @englishraven #eltchat Some will, some won't. At 3 my daughter'd guess word her 5 yr old brother was struggling to read phonetically
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:34P.M. @englishraven @annehendler don't punjabi evidence for this? #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. RT @TyKendall: #eltchat I never remember any vocabulary which has been spoon-fed to me by a dictionary, working it out myself helps me r ...
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. @mike08 please avoid tweeting other stuff during our chat  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. @teflerinha @englishraven @annehendler this statistical approach is defo. Best IMO #eltchat
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. @michaelegriffin  #ELTChat 2/2 ... Perhaps instead of HOMO SAPIENS we should be HOMO ESTIMANS. :-)
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. @EBEFL @englishraven I guess everyday. As a newly planted expat today I guessed about the menu (right 50%), product use (0%) & time #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. RT @michaelegriffin: #ELTchat @AnneHendler @englishraven For me personally as a leaner (i guess) making a prediction and then getting fe ...
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. @BobK99 I guess I mean support it as a thing to do in class with students as a teacher trying to help them improve their English #eltchat :)
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:35P.M. RT @englishraven: Instructional design can factor in, IMO. If they can follow a guess through to anactual result/outcome, stickier. #ELTchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:36P.M. RT @TyKendall: #eltchat I never remember any vocabulary which has been spoon-fed to me by a dictionary, working it out myself helps me r ...
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:36P.M. RT @BobK99: @michaelegriffin  #ELTChat 'Support' it? I don't see how you can avoid it! Whether it's teachable, I'm not so sure.But guess ...
TyKendall 6/3/2013 2:36P.M. #eltchat sorry folks gotta run, work beckons..... hopefully will be able to stay for a full chat soon...
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:36P.M. Make a guess. If wrong, you want to know the reason. More likely to stick, especially if simply told the answer. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:36P.M. @jankenb2 Right! So I think if it happens/is needed in real world contexts, it's worth looking at and developing in the classroom. #ELTChat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:37P.M. @jankenb2 @englishraven curious what the language gap was...European Lang? #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:37P.M. @TyKendall Take care TK - good to catch up with you and your thoughts/insights again! #ELTChat
sam_persiana 6/3/2013 2:37P.M. RT @CotterHUE: students come to class with many poor habits. Raising awareness for guessing, for example, important. #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:37P.M. @CotterHUE T need to assure them that guessing is a gd strategy & culturally acceptable.Think pragmatics & self-regulated learning. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:38P.M. @EBEFL I think you're right (as @Marisa_C  also alluded to earlier), the relative language gap from L1-L2 is important factor. #ELTChat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:38P.M. @michaelegriffin #eltchat Yes, I think there's a difference between seeing it as a reading strategy and seeing it as a way of learning vocab
prese1 6/3/2013 2:38P.M. @Marisa_C whenever I hear a new word in PT I guess the meaning and the 2nd time I hear it... I ask someone for the meaning.  #eltchat
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:38P.M. MT @jo_cummins: @englishraven @EDEFL ... prise sts away from dicti'y and get them to think more about text than each word #eltchat >Rt on ;)
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:38P.M. My guess is that many of us r talking about strategy/skill of guessing while the naysayers are talking about (not) learning FROM it #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:39P.M. @michaelegriffin we all perhaps agree that it is more strategy that skill,we're not teaching this but offering it as an option #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:39P.M. @michaelegriffin not sure what you mean - expand pls? #eltchat #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:39P.M. #eltchat Think you can learn new vocab from GFC, but it's not a particularly efficient or predictable method.
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:40P.M. @teflerinha @michaelegriffin I agree though absolutely no research into whether it improves reading ability #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:40P.M. #eltchat Until I started teaching I thought 'rubric' was a kind of picture because I guessed from context reading Jane Eyre as a child.
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:40P.M. @englishraven #eltchat Y but tied to culture & belief on error. If error =shame, guessing diminished. If error = better info thn guessing ok
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:41P.M. @EBEFL @michaelegriffin It is a skill. Using techniques like self-questioning, referring to subtitles, preteach voc all support WiC #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:41P.M. @EBEFL No I don't see it as an option - if teaching reading,  part of my brief to help ss deal with challenging text #eltchat  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:41P.M. Am digging @teflerinha  today #ELTchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:41P.M. @jankenb2 You are SO RIGHT to mention Ss 'learning culture' here. Mistakes=shame can make guesswork hazardous in some contexts? #ELTChat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:41P.M. #eltchat As a strategy think is teachable- morphology (as discussed), what part of speech it is, looking forward and backward 4 clues etc.
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. @EBEFL @michaelegriffin #eltchat That wld be interesting- but guess hard to quantify- maybe with a protocol?
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. @Marisa_C but the you are assuming it helps...does it? #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. @teflerinha the backward and forward is what we re talking abt today :-) #eltchat  #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. @EBEFL #eltchat is that because I kind of agree with you ;)
StanzaSL 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. RT @yya2: VocabularyCoach :: vocabulary lists, games, and activities | @scoopit http://t.co/ISsVLmP4HF #langchat #ellchat #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. @EBEFL @teflerinha @michaelgriffin That would be more useful research than whether it helps with learning vocab #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:42P.M. So, GFC can be a vocabulary learning technique, reading micro-skill , real life skill. Also valuable tool towards learner autonomy #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:43P.M. @Marisa_C Seems a key question here isis skill/strategy to be used outside of class or a way into learning new lexis in class.  #ELTchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:43P.M. #eltchat To teach words in context use games as ice breaker. Hand out cloze paragraphs to teams of 3 w/reward. Food, accolades etc #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:43P.M. @teflerinha true #eltchat  #slightlyembarrassed
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:43P.M. @EBEFL I have seen enough classes (100's) to know it does #eltchat  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:44P.M. @michaelegriffin ok gotcha - does it matter tho? Isn't what we do in class prep for the real world? #eltchat  #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:44P.M. @Marisa_C Fair cop- that's what context means- but hard 2 separate from other guessing techniques- such as similarity 2 other langs #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:44P.M. RT @Marisa_C: @EBEFL I have seen enough classes (100's) to know it does #eltchat > I'm heavily inclined to agree.
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:45P.M. @Marisa_C Hmmm NLP people and brain gym folk also think their stuff 'works' too but that's not enough for me. #eltchat #nooffence
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:45P.M. Also, when we ask them to 'guess', are we looking for an L2-L1 translation, or an action/follow up? Different ways to guess... #ELTChat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:45P.M. @teflerinha @EBEFL @michaelegriffin Ed Research is one of my favorite activities and I would guess there is solid evidence for it. #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:47P.M. @EBEFL @englishraven I'm a native Eng speaker who has recently relocated to Vilnius Lithuania. My Russian helps in a pinch w/older #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:47P.M. @EBEFL So do researchers - but their scope often very narrow and doesn't prove much beyond a narrow subset of parameters #eltchat  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:47P.M. @jankenb2 @teflerinha @michaelegriffin if you can find any please let me know #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:47P.M. @EBEFL I tend to be careful about doubting the results generated in classes, across 100s of classes. T exp/obs is precious. #ELTChat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:47P.M. @Marisa_C That seems to be a believe that you have. :) #ELTchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. @EBEFL @teflerinha @michaelegriffin Yes...come back to #eltchat in about an hour or so and I'll have something for sure. #uiuc #satchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. @Marisa_C @EBEFL I have to agree with Marisa here 2. Ultimately, I tend to go by exp rather than research, bt know I could be wrong #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. @englishraven sure but do you doubt the hundreds of patients cured by acupuncture? #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat fear of error -> avoid guessing -> stay inside comfort zone -> prefer "spoonfeeding" -> less dev ...
prese1 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. @teflerinha  I did alot of GFC, reading books too. As teachers, I guess we need to make sure they have the correct meaning #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:48P.M. #eltchat fear of error -> avoid guessing -> stay inside comfort zone -> prefer "spoonfeeding" -> less development as a learner ?
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:49P.M. @teflerinha Class experience and class research are no less valuable than statistics #ELTchat  #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:49P.M. RT @AlexandraKouk: -> prefer "spoonfeeding" -> less development as a learner ? -> I think so, yes. #ELTChat
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:50P.M. @teflerinha  #eltchat Yes, and syntactical clues as well: eg 'if '-able' => adj'; aprt from semantic ones  (if 'post-' sense of 'afterness')
prese1 6/3/2013 2:50P.M. RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat fear of error -> avoid guessing -> stay inside comfort zone -> prefer "spoonfeeding" -> less dev ...
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:50P.M. @EBEFL If we only ever stuck to anything that was 100% provable to white coat brigades, our craft would be doomed... #ELTChat
muranava 6/3/2013 2:51P.M. if the biarn flils in coextnt nlautarly do we need to tceah it? :) #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:51P.M. @AlexandraKouk I don't think anyone is suggesting students wouldn't guess though...they will guess without instruction #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:51P.M. @englishraven fully agree #ELTChat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:52P.M. RT @muranava: if the biarn flils in coextnt nlautarly do we need to tceah it? :) #eltchat@EBEFL   > do we then need to teach anything
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:52P.M. @englishraven 'the white
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:52P.M. @teflerinha Agree.If more teachers with more exp over time say this helps/generates better results, it's worth at least considering #ELTChat
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:52P.M. @muranava does that work in L2 as well? #ELTchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:53P.M. RT @EBEFL: Experience is Valuable, but not objective, -teachers are humans after all #eltchat > And thank goodness for that fact! :)
BobK99 6/3/2013 2:53P.M. @teflerinha  #eltchat Oh, THAT sort of 'digging'!
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:53P.M. @AlexandraKouk Yes b/c schema building of L2 has to dev from "remember" to analyze & synth. #eltchat Bloom's #eltchat http://t.co/EYb2W2sJba
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:53P.M. @EBEFL They will guess, as in you're a 100% sure they will? #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:53P.M. @englishraven experience is
muranava 6/3/2013 2:54P.M. @AnneHendler depends on learner level i guess #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:54P.M. @AlexandraKouk why wouldn't they #eltchat what donthey do in L1?
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:54P.M. Im still not sure what we as a group r saying is the prime benefit of ss doing guesswork stuff in class. #ELTchat (researched or otherwise)
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:54P.M. RT @jankenb2: @AlexandraKouk Yes b/c schema building of L2 has to dev from "remember" to analyze & synth. #eltchat Bloom's #eltchat  ...
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. @michaelegriffin (1) relates to real world needs #ELTChat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. #ELTChat so, GFC v. imp. in developing critical thinking & independence - beyond the field of just reading or vocab. teaching
muranava 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. @Marisa_C need to weigh up what to teach for sure #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. RT @michaelegriffin: Im still not sure what we as a group r saying is the prime benefit of ss doing guesswork stuff in class. #ELTchat ( ...
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. RT @michaelegriffin: Im still not sure what we as a group r saying is the prime benefit of ss doing guesswork stuff in class. #ELTchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:55P.M. @Marisa_C @muranava Basic decoding skills c/b used to decipher text but deep meaning rests on schema dev. Wds in context links.  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:56P.M. @michaelegriffin makes an excellent point... It's perhaps to late to define parameters now tho hahaha #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:56P.M. Some students wont guess bcz not safe environment to take risks. #eltchat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. @Marisa_C @michaelegriffin  I wouldn't ask sts to do it all the time. Just once every blue moon, to vary #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. @michaelegriffin It's not a complete literacy or language program, but words in context is useful http://t.co/uLu24kEJI2 #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. I think guessing from context is more a reading fluency than learning vocab strategy (1/2) #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. RT @CotterHUE: @michaelegriffin: Real skill for the real world. Teacher not there to help outside of classroom. #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. Bit late in the game there for that one, folks, sorry. #ELTchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. @michaelegriffin: Real skill for the real world. Teacher not there to help outside of classroom. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. RT @AnneHendler: @michaelegriffin develops fluency? #ELTchat That would be my number (2). :)
muranava 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. from what i recall schema theory maybe applicable to general experiences but not to lang?
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 2:57P.M. @michaelegriffin develops fluency? #ELTchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. and sts in L2 do sometimes need to be reminded to put down dictionary and focus on text not word (which can be diff in L1) (2/2) #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. @prese1 That's interesting, as I used it as a regular strategy (alongside others). #ELTChat
prese1 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. RT @jo_cummins: I think guessing from context is more a reading fluency than learning vocab strategy (1/2) #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. #ELTchat just a note... All research indicates gfc success is low. Ss often believe they know when they don't.
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. #eltchat Sorry, electrician finally turned up, lost thread. Not least because sounding like fitting new cooker NIGHTMARE!
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:58P.M. So what do you think are the benefits as @michaelegriffin is very rightly questioning  #ELTchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 2:59P.M. @muranava It is the root of language dev. When I say "mass" what do you think? How would you respond? U wld need more info, no? #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 2:59P.M. @EBEFL #eltchat Can believe that's true, but might not matter unless word is key to meaning, and will keep them reading on.
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 2:59P.M. RT @englishraven: @prese1 That's interesting, as I used it as a regular strategy (alongside others). #ELTChat > me too
prese1 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. @Marisa_C @englishraven I was thinking about YLs at pre-int/Int doing a reading text in class. I usually pre-teach vocab #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. @CotterHUE @jo_cummins #eltchat yes, good point, also listening, and even more important, as no time for dictionary!
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. looks like we might need a second session for this one :-) #eltchat
leoselivan 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. @EBEFL agree that guessing from context is low. see Laufer (1997) among others
BobK99 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. RT @muranava: if the biarn flils in coextnt nlautarly do we need to tceah it? :) #eltchat >deepnds what yuo mane by 'tceah'.
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. RT @jo_cummins: I think guessing from context is more a reading fluency than learning vocab strategy (1/2) #eltchat >> also listening
EBEFL 6/3/2013 3:00P.M. Hahaha enjoying this lively #ELTchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:01P.M. @jo_cummins Yes, rd subtitles, look at pictures, write out ?'s you want answered by rding. Then read closely. Then refer to notes #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:01P.M. @prese1 makes sense for lower levels of instruction - but lack of key vocab (see corpus studies) may be the issue there #eltchat
teflerinha 6/3/2013 3:01P.M. @prese1 @Marisa_C @englishraven #eltchat Now pre-teaching vocab might make another good chat- or has it been done?
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:01P.M. RT @englishraven: @prese1 That's interesting, as I used it as a regular strategy (alongside others). #ELTChat
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:01P.M. One interesting connection I made was between learning to visualise new vocab, then later to guess when the word reappeared #ELTChat
leoselivan 6/3/2013 3:02P.M. @teflerinha @Marisa_C @englishraven pre-teach or not? or post-teach? good topic #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 3:02P.M. #ELTchat @EBEFL it is just a note because the point of gfc (as im understanding) is not for students to be correct but to develop skill, no?
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:02P.M. RT @jo_cummins: @teflerinha @CotterHUE yes, good point. Very important for listening but more difficult! #eltchat
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 3:02P.M. @teflerinha @CotterHUE yes, good point. Very important for listening but more difficult! #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:03P.M. Dont like tests, but guessing also important test strategy. Almost always incorporate this point&practice in test-taking classes. #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:03P.M. @teflerinha I'm sure that has been covered in a previous #ELTChat at some stage, but key topic in ELT and can/ought to be recycled!
BobK99 6/3/2013 3:03P.M. TAHT the time? Byee and tx for  #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 3:03P.M. Out of curiosity what do you do in L1 when you come across unknown words?  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:03P.M. @teflerinha hasn't i think but will check  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:04P.M. I think if you look at L1 vs L2 strats not always a match or good carry-over into L2 #eltchat too many other preoccupations may block them?
prese1 6/3/2013 3:04P.M. @EBEFL if I'm rdg, I'll GFC and underline the word. Look it up later. #eltchat
muranava 6/3/2013 3:04P.M. @jankenb2 mass - that's general world knowledge? not up on schema theory as applied to lang any refs to explore? #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:04P.M. @englishraven Do you ever employ the preteach of 4 square? 1 sheet into 4ths. Wd in center & L1, drawing, sentence & def in ech box #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 3:04P.M. @michaelegriffin how do they do that? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. @jankenb2 that sounds interesting! #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. @CotterHUE "think alouds" is another strategy to demo the use of words in context. I read a complex text & model thinking & WiC #eltchat
prese1 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. @jankenb2 @englishraven  nice one #eltchat
english247 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. #English for beginners (updated) free lessons, games & quizzes http://t.co/sxbRmWXw #esl #kids #engpls #esol #eltchat #yl #sped #engpls
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. RT @EBEFL what do you do in L1 when you come across unknown words? #eltchat >> quickly make a best guess and move on esp if i follow context
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. RT @jankenb2: Preteach of 4 square? 1 sheet into 4ths. Wd in center & L1, drawing, sentence & def in ech box #eltchat
leoselivan 6/3/2013 3:05P.M. @EBEFL I don't think strategies are comparable there. Larger vocab L1, Critical mass and all #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 3:06P.M. @EBEFL Gr8 question! (+perhaps at the root of what I think we might be talkin bout). Practice. Root words. More input.T help? dunno #ELTchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:06P.M. Have not resolved much in this #eltchat - have provided some light amusement or food for thought? remains to be seen :-)
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 3:06P.M. @EBEFL guess/ignore and move on unless it is a really key word or interesting to me! #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:06P.M. @EBEFL in L1 I guess from context. If I have time I sometms check a dictionary later. In L2 eventually get around to dictionary. #eltchat
naomishema 6/3/2013 3:06P.M. @barbsaka Thanks for Mention of :"Thank Goodness! iTDi Has Turned the Lights ON!"  http://t.co/nYnvzFXVYq #eltchat #edchat #efl
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:07P.M. @jankenb2 @prese1 There is also the 'Word Wise' approach... http://t.co/mgDYN5ewAt and http://t.co/EkodeK5PEu :) #ELTChat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:07P.M. @michaelegriffin @EBEFL Not always. How many of us "forget" the ancronyms used in technical text & have to return to original para? #eltchat
prese1 6/3/2013 3:07P.M. @EBEFL I don't always get the word right but I do get the meaning of what is going on in the bk #eltchat
EBEFL 6/3/2013 3:07P.M. RT @jo_cummins: @EBEFL guess/ignore and move on unless it is a really key word or interesting to me! #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:08P.M. I get the drift and move on #eltchat i don't write down a definition a synonym or an antonym (all highly respected ways of recording vocab)
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 3:08P.M. @Marisa_C I'd personally love to see a response on how to help ss' skill development on GFC (and sorry if I missed it) #ELTchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:09P.M. @englishraven thanks for joining and helping our dear Jason - hope you can do it again soon  #ELTChat
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:09P.M. @Marisa_C Have to dash. Lovely to spend some time back with the #ELTChat crew. Thank you for having me!
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:09P.M. @EBEFL yes please do will put up transcript soon  #eltchat
muranava 6/3/2013 3:09P.M. @BobK99 haha, the very question in this #eltchat :)
prese1 6/3/2013 3:09P.M. @englishraven @jankenb2 Thanx #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:10P.M. Thanks to all for joining! And to @EBEFL for provoking the question and offering to do summary  #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:10P.M. #eltchat Ta ta everyone. Now I must go to the virtural stacks of my uni and find the latest research on Words in Context & ELL. #eltchat.
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. @jo_cummins it does, doesn't it - we did go round in circles somewhat - may be we should do a words from context revisited #eltchat #eltchat
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. RT @jo_cummins: thanks for interesting #eltchat! Feels like we were just getting started :) #eltchat > That's the general idea... :-)
muranava 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. thanks all #eltchat
AnneHendler 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. Thanks for the chat #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. RT @jankenb2: #eltchat ... find the latest research on Words in Context & ELL > please do!
jo_cummins 6/3/2013 3:11P.M. thanks for interesting #eltchat! Feels like we were just getting started :) #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 6/3/2013 3:12P.M. @EBEFL very rarely look them up #eltchat
muranava 6/3/2013 3:12P.M. RT @leoselivan: @EBEFL I don't think strategies are comparable there. Larger vocab L1, Critical mass and all #eltchat
michaelegriffin 6/3/2013 3:12P.M. @Marisa_C and thanks to you for moderating! Nice chat! #ELTchat
prese1 6/3/2013 3:13P.M. @EBEFL Thinking about it...I ignore some too and later look them up to see if it changes anything #eltchat
prese1 6/3/2013 3:15P.M. Thanks for the chat...wow...14 minutes later  #eltchat
Marisa_C 6/3/2013 3:16P.M. SIgnig off for a wee bit thank you all and will post transcript later #eltchat
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:18P.M. Great #eltchat but we just got started. This was one topic on which everyone could say a lot more.
naomishema 6/3/2013 3:18P.M. Winter Pronunciation Camp Reflections: Student Feedback http://t.co/LRI9paL6x5 via @breathyvowel >sounds worth repeating! #eltchat #efl #esl
englishraven 6/3/2013 3:19P.M. #ELTChat On the subject of guided/useful/productive guessing, this might be of interest: http://t.co/TA9irfo1QX
CotterHUE 6/3/2013 3:22P.M. RT @englishraven: #ELTChat On the subject of guided/useful/productive guessing, this might be of interest: http://t.co/TA9irfo1QX
jankenb2 6/3/2013 3:25P.M. #eltchat Theory connecting miscues with comprehension and words in context...an interesting take on causal factors http://t.co/ZKO47dgkl7
jankenb2 6/3/2013 4:07P.M. @jankenb2 Ss using context sgnficntly outperformed S on all three types of tasks Reading & Writing Quarterly, v27 n4 p281-305 2011 #eltchat
jankenb2 6/3/2013 4:19P.M. @jankenb2 #eltchat 3 princ based on cog ling--categorization, prototype & metaphor in voc instr Sociology Study; Nov2011, Vol. 1 6, p460-467
jankenb2 6/3/2013 4:41P.M. Voc Development: Using words in context. Implicit & explicit instruction. Structual analysis & Context Clues #eltchat http://t.co/z0JZS7YtC2

 

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