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username
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time
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status
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ELTchat
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1:58 PM
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1st #ELTchat topic today "Alternatives in assessment and how to move away from the administration of formal tests in the classroom"
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Marisa_C
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2:01 PM
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Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to talk abt it?
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4TheChallenge
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2:02 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to t ...
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esolcourses
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2:02 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to t ...
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Marisa_C
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2:03 PM
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@esolcourses Thank you for helping moderate this 1st #eltchat Sue - Shaun and James out of reach tofday
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bhrbahar
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2:04 PM
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@Marisa_C #ELTchat I am ready =)
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Marisa_C
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2:04 PM
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@esolcourses on the other hand, we might both go back to what we were doing before - no one else seems to be here for #ELTchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:05 PM
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@Marisa_C @esolcourses Hello, Marisa and Sue! #eltchat I'm kind of here.
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Marisa_C
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2:05 PM
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@prese1 @bhrbahar #ELTchat hello and welcome :-)
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esolcourses
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2:05 PM
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@Marisa_C happy to help our when I can! & LOL! Shall we make a start? :-) Portfolio based assessment is one alternative #eltchat
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prese1
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2:05 PM
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hello everyone :) #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:06 PM
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@SimonGreenall #eltchat welcome Simon! kind of nice to have u kind of here :-)
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Marisa_C
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2:07 PM
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Doesn't look as if we need to define 'formal' does it ? Tho quick for readers' sake, written, criterion based, graded...... #ELTchat
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prese1
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2:07 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C Portfolio based learning? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:08 PM
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@prese1 #eltchat Yes, a selection of a student's production (written) and now (digitally possible) spoken as well #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:09 PM
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@prese1 #eltchat all
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prese1
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2:09 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C age groups? #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:09 PM
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@prese1 @Marisa_C learners are assessed on a portfolio of work rather than taking an exam. Less pressure/more personalised #eltchat
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BobK99
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2:10 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @esolcourses ...no one else seems to be here for #ELTchat > au contraire - just late :)
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Marisa_C
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2:11 PM
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Here is the EU website for portfolio assessment http://t.co/XIhjvx3x #eltchat
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eltknowledge
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2:12 PM
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Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:12 PM
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@eltknowledge @BobK99 #ELTchat oooohhh great! time to move beyond the basics then :-)
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bhrbahar
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2:12 PM
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@esolcourses @prese1 @Marisa_C #ELTchat they focus on communication, production not on right or wrong answers.
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esolcourses
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2:12 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Here is the EU website for portfolio assessment http://t.co/XIhjvx3x #eltchat
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eltknowledge
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2:12 PM
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Hi everyone! I'm here to join in on today's #ELTchat ! - Chia
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esolcourses
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2:13 PM
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RT @eltknowledge: Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat ] depends how it is done, perhaps?
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Marisa_C
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2:13 PM
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Here is a guideline document on portfolios from Europa http://t.co/t7gucrY6 #eltchat for those who have not use portfolio assessments
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eltknowledge
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2:14 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C What are self placement models? Pardon the ignorance. #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:14 PM
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@Marisa_C @esolcourses I'm checking in too... #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:14 PM
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RT @eltknowledge: Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat > I think so - not self placement models tho
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eltknowledge
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2:15 PM
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@Marisa_C That sounds interesting! How do learners do that? #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:15 PM
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@chiasuan Can we not assign scores toassessed portfolios?? eg. CEFR grades by competency #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:15 PM
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@eltknowledge #eltchat the elarners decide on their level -
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esolcourses
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2:15 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @Marisa_C good to see you here :-) #eltchat
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BobK99
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2:16 PM
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#ELTchat The only formal assessment I was involved in didn't involve writing at all - it was for the National Open College Network -...1/2
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prese1
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2:16 PM
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@Marisa_C is it my impression or does it need learner autonomy? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:16 PM
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@eltknowledge #eltchat one example I have seen all in a large room and move from grp to grp
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cuppa_coffee
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2:17 PM
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@eltknowledge @esolcourses @Marisa_C self-placement = self-evaluation often reliable predictor if future performance #ELTchat
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eltknowledge
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2:17 PM
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@Marisa_C Fascinating. I'd love to see that in action. #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:17 PM
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@Marisa_C @eltknowledge in theory, letting learners decide on level sounds good - not sure it would work in all contexts #eltchat
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bhrbahar
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2:17 PM
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@Marisa_C @eltknowledge #ELTchat the learners can have opportunity to assess themselves and their peers as well.
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chiasuan
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2:17 PM
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@cuppa_coffee I'd certainly be up 4that! Teachers continually assessment the progress of sts & giving CEFR scores. #eltchat
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eltknowledge
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2:18 PM
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I have a huge problem with discrete item testing, but if the formal tests evaluate general competencies, I'm more 4 it. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:18 PM
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@esolcourses #eltchat no self placement would certainly not work in all contexts - but is an example of informal
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Marisa_C
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2:19 PM
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@eltknowledge #eltchat A good activity for summer courses i think
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cuppa_coffee
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2:19 PM
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@eltknowledge @Marisa_C could use CEFR or European Language Portfolio. Adapt to your context. #ELTchat
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BobK99
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2:20 PM
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#ELTchat ...2/2 FWIW there web site is https://t.co/a6xALCmA - but it wasn't ELT (Pg, beginners, writing was just not on the agenda)
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cuppa_coffee
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2:21 PM
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@bhrbahar @Marisa_C @eltknowledge could combine self & peer assessment in Maria's group activity #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:22 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C @eltknowledge still need to verify result by teacher, peers or sample writing/speech #ELTchat
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eltknowledge
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2:22 PM
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AS the CEFR are only descriptors, how do u train teachers to apply them appropriately when testing? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:22 PM
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I think if we are looking at alternative assessment a good idea to begin with what @bhrbahar mentioned - real tasks - self assesmnt #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:23 PM
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Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:24 PM
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@cuppa_coffee #ELTchat Another question - is discrete item testing suitable for alternative assessment models?
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bhrbahar
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2:25 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, because the learners become more aware of what they are expected to do and also it can reduce the test anxiety
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esolcourses
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2:25 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat ] yes if possible, IMO
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esolcourses
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2:26 PM
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RT @cuppa_coffee @Marisa_C @eltknowledge still need to verify result by teacher, peers or sample writing/speech #ELTchat think so, yes
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Marisa_C
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2:26 PM
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RT @bhrbahar: @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, because Ss become more aware of what they are expected to do and also it can reduce the test anxiety
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Marisa_C
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2:27 PM
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@CotterHUE hi there! a very long time no see!!! welcome! #eltchat
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UNIRidiomas
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2:27 PM
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@CotterHUE @Marisa_C How do you do it? #eltchat
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KatelendM
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2:27 PM
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I think if learners started with a framework then it could work really well. But at first would need a lot of modelling. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:27 PM
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There is a kind of formality tho even in portfolio assessment #eltchat who selects samples of work to include - are they graded etc
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cuppa_coffee
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2:27 PM
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@eltknowledge Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising teacher assessment. #ELTchat
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CotterHUE
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2:27 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat yes, but have never done so.
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Marisa_C
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2:28 PM
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@KatelendM #eltchat the younger the learners or lower the level all the more need for lots of modelling = fully agree
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esolcourses
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2:28 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: There is a kind of formality tho even in portfolio assessment #eltchat who selects work to include - are they graded etc
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eltknowledge
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2:28 PM
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RT @cuppa_coffee: Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising teacher assessment. #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:29 PM
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@Marisa_C sure Second language learning requires knowledge as well as competency. Discrete test grammar, pron & vocabulary useful #eltchat
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KatelendM
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2:29 PM
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if Ss help determine assessment criteria, that could be pulled from the SMART goals they establish first. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:29 PM
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Could this DVD for CEFR be shown to the Ss too? #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:29 PM
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@Marisa_C thanks. Kids went to bed early for a change! #eltchat
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eltknowledge
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2:29 PM
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I don't mean 2b pedantic but the word 'assessment' always strikes me as sthg formal. That's why I prefer 'testing' (as opp 2 tests) #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:29 PM
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RT @eltknowledge: RT @cuppa_coffee: Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising. #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:30 PM
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@cuppa_coffee #eltchat good point - but since onus on INFORMAL assessment, don't u think best done thru holistic tasks?
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esolcourses
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2:30 PM
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@Marisa_C agree. Difficult to get around that tho as teachers are often required to produce evidence of achievement... #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:31 PM
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RT @KatelendM: if Ss help determine assessment criteria, that could be pulled from the SMART goals they establish first. #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:31 PM
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@Marisa_C ... tho that's not to say that learners can't be involved in selecting work to demonstrate achievement #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:31 PM
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@eltknowledge interesting. For me, "testing" has more negative connotations than "assessment." #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:31 PM
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@esolcourses #eltchat I know - school requirements often against this notion - big battle worldwide at the mo
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cuppa_coffee
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2:32 PM
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@Marisa_C why not. Some IELTS DVDs also have samples of different grades #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:32 PM
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For me there is a very great need for Ts to see testing/assessment as only a small part of a borader course/programme evaluation #eltchat
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pjgallantry
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2:33 PM
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#ELTchat afternoon all
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michaelegriffin
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2:33 PM
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MT @Marisa_C Do u think learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat>Yes! I also think it can take training
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Marisa_C
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2:34 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat welcome
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CotterHUE
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2:34 PM
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@esolcourses: @Marisa_C agree. re: evidence of achievement... Not only school,parents,companies, but many students want evidence. #eltchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:34 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat The stakeholders in testin/assessment aren't only the students and teachers. They cn be parents, third party funders,MoE
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Marisa_C
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2:34 PM
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cont... many Ts convinced that tests only form of evaluation (by school, microculrure, habit..) #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:35 PM
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Tests can be a teaching tool too. Go over answers, teach through mistakes, expand on important points. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:35 PM
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RT @esolcourses: @Marisa_C agree. You could say the same thing about education generally #eltchat > Indeed!
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esolcourses
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2:35 PM
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@Marisa_C agree. You could say the same thing about education generally #eltchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:35 PM
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@CotterHUE #eltchat Yes, agree.
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pjgallantry
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2:35 PM
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#ELTchat how often do you test/assess?
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pjgallantry
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2:36 PM
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@SimonGreenall @marisa_c totally agree -FE in UK for example, needs results or it doesn't get funding = test-heavy culture #ELTchat
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prese1
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2:37 PM
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@pjgallantry @SimonGreenall @marisa_c same here #eltchat
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msoskil
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2:37 PM
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@CotterHUE Yes. But, as formative assssmnts go tests rarely give kids the most feedback for the time it takes. There's better ways. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:37 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat test happy too
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Marisa_C
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2:38 PM
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Personally not against formal testingbut see it only as a small part of the larger framework of diff ways of evaluating Ss T & crse #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:39 PM
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But think of formal testing as a way of confirming informal assessments - which we also do da-to-day as Ts - let's not forget that #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:39 PM
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@pjgallantry test at end of 1month but test is tool for review and Ss receive one-to-one feedback on whole course+work #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:39 PM
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@Marisa_C @pjgallantry but well designed test can cause positive backwash too #ELTchat
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pjgallantry
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2:39 PM
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#ELTchat problem with tests can be that they warp the curriculum, and push things too fast- because of exam timetable -not beneficial
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cuppa_coffee
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2:40 PM
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@msoskil @CotterHUE Good point. Single most important thing teacher can do to help progress is detailed evaluative feedback #ELTchat
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pjgallantry
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2:40 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @marisa_c true, but the key is well-designed - and well -timed! #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:41 PM
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How about informal one-to-one tutorials as a way of ongoing informal evaluation - anyone tried them? #eltchat - based on clear criteria tho
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esolcourses
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2:41 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat problem with tests can be that they warp the curriculum, and push things too fast- because of exam timetable - ...
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esolcourses
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2:41 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: @cuppa_coffee @marisa_c true, but the key is well-designed - and well -timed! #ELTchat ] agree
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pjgallantry
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2:41 PM
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@CotterHUE working in FE we have whole raft of formative and summarise assessments :p #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:42 PM
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@Marisa_C nice idea! Formal test = validation tool of informal test #ELTchat
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touqo
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2:42 PM
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Isn't time in the classroom kind of wasted if it is spent on being quiet and doing tests? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:43 PM
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@touqo #eltchat very hard to say what is really a waste of time in the classroom
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BobK99
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2:43 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat Maybe that explains the relative calm this week - ppp have just said 'I don't do fml testing', and given 12.00 a miss:-?
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pjgallantry
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2:43 PM
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#ELTchat some tests are designed with teacher/tester/organisation in mind, NOT the students - how is validity affected?
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pjgallantry
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2:44 PM
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@Marisa_C @touqo a game of football? :) #ELTchat
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touqo
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2:44 PM
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@Marisa_C of course it depends. But sts are together in the classroom. Should do something together instead of alone? #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:44 PM
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@Marisa_C I've used informal one-to-one tutorials with adult learners to assess progress, tweak goals, etc. Worked well mostly, IME #eltchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:44 PM
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@Marisa_C @touqo #eltchat Yes, and if tests are essential for other purposes, it's not really a waste of time.
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Marisa_C
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2:44 PM
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@BobK99 you could be right - we have adult classes for our CELTAs that we don't test at all - they have just asked for a test #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:45 PM
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@touqo: time wasted being quiet and doing tests? devils advocate: how about tests as extrinsic motivation to balance? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:45 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat hours of fun on the board with grammar rules and ss with glazed eyes? is that useful time i wonder
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Marisa_C
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2:46 PM
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....#ELTchat and I allowed collaboartion - they said "we do everything in groups' ... What do you think happened?
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Marisa_C
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2:46 PM
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I have mentioned this incident in another chat but may be worth repeating: group testing - my Ss complained abt indiv tests...cont #ELTchat
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pjgallantry
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2:46 PM
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#ELTchat problem can be this:what is the test testing?How we use language, how we use a particular Language point, or problem-solving skill?
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pjgallantry
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2:47 PM
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@Marisa_C of course not productive....question is, how do you objectively test spontaneous language? #ELTchat
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prese1
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2:47 PM
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@Marisa_C what happened?#eltchat
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touqo
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2:47 PM
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@CotterHUE but you could do tests anywhere. In the classroom students are together. Give them tests which presuppose groupwork? #eltchat
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prese1
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2:47 PM
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@Marisa_C group testing ...sounds interesting #eltchat
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BobK99
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2:48 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: @Marisa_C of course not productive....question is, how do you objectively test spontaneous language? #ELTchat >Good qstn!
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Marisa_C
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2:48 PM
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@touqo #eltchat indeed - outcomes/.output can be collected from any poitnt - noted - recorded etc
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cuppa_coffee
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2:48 PM
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@touqo @Marisa_C If they are learning then fine with me. Talking together does not equal learning. Testing is a learning tool #ELTchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:49 PM
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@pjgallantry @Marisa_C #eltchat But it's not possible to test spontaneoous l objectively. It is possible to do so with validity.
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Marisa_C
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2:49 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat well... must point out that lack of objectivity in assessing productive skills holistically will always be an issue
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pjgallantry
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2:50 PM
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@Marisa_C agree entirely...one issue with testing is if you have the skill of knowing how to pass a test, you'll pass...!.....#ELTchat
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touqo
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2:50 PM
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I think in the future you can do individual tests anywhere. 1) tech can enable remote monitoring; 2) cheating is less of an issue. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:50 PM
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That's why assessors are regularly standardized - a discipline that would be v useful to Ts as well #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:51 PM
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@touqo fair point. Take home test would achieve same goal. Blackboard or other online tool for Ss to work at home, same motivator. #eltchat
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prese1
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2:52 PM
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@CotterHUE @touqo how many adult students would hand in a completed test? I wonder #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:52 PM
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RT @prese1: @Marisa_C what happened?#eltchat > the Ss' results after working in grps showed their diff levels of ability
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Marisa_C
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2:53 PM
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@pjgallantry test adrenalin levels :-) #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:53 PM
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@touqo great for discrete test items but what about production, speaking, fluency? Still value in classroom based testing #ELTchat
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touqo
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2:54 PM
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@cuppa_coffee good point. There are some things requiring F2F with the teacher. #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:54 PM
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RT @CotterHUE: RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat all testing does is demonstrate learners ability to pass tests... OR some Ss awful at tests yet ...
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Marisa_C
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2:54 PM
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@CotterHUE #ELTchat very true - many just bad test takers
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BobK99
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2:54 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat 'learner's ability to pass tests' - I'm a case in point: 50+ years of sterile exam-passing!
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CotterHUE
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2:54 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat all testing does is demonstrate learners ability to pass tests... OR some Ss awful at tests yet know the material.
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Marisa_C
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2:56 PM
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About young learners - do you believe that formal testing suited for that age group? #Eltchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:56 PM
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@pjgallantry #eltchat Wot is going on in your tests? Do you play Ride of the Valkyries too? :)
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cuppa_coffee
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2:56 PM
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@CotterHUE @pjgallantry hence @Marisa_C desire to elevate more informal test as central to evaluation #ELTchat
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CotterHUE
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2:56 PM
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@prese1 Why are they learning a language? Are they hobbyists? Do they need English? Probably less of the former&more of the latter. #eltchat
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pjgallantry
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2:57 PM
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@SimonGreenall yes, and I bomb them with napalm. Keeps them on their toes ;) #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:57 PM
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@touqo I have assessed speaking by recorded video. was very useful :-) #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:57 PM
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@SimonGreenall @pjgallantry #eltchat my affective filter hitting RED!!!! #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:58 PM
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@SimonGreenall #eltchat lol.... it's crippling that wot!
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SimonGreenall
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2:58 PM
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@pjgallantry #eltchat OKaaay. Is that formative or summative? :)
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Marisa_C
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2:59 PM
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Question abt young learners not really addressed in this #ELTchat - any last thoughts before we wrap up?
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CotterHUE
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3:00 PM
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@cuppa_coffee: @touqo I have assessed speaking by recorded video. was very useful :-) #ELTchat Were Ss more nervous with this assessment?
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pjgallantry
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3:00 PM
|
#ELTchat thanks for the chat - short but sweet, but always informative. Have to go - preparing a class for an, er, exam....
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cuppa_coffee
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C @SimonGreenall test taking ability itself is useful life skill too remember #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat Actually no,I believe,they can be more productive when Ss feel relaxed.Sometimes they dont even know the meaning of test
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prese1
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C no...but parents expect feedback on how their kids are doing. School system does formal testing. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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3:01 PM
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@cuppa_coffee that;s what official exmaining bodies would have us believe i think.... #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
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3:02 PM
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@Marisa_C #Eltchat Once one of my successful Ss was too anxious, was crying cause she thought IFshe makes a mistake,I'll not love heranymore
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BobK99
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3:02 PM
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mT @SimonGreenall: @pjgallantry #eltchat... formative or summative? :) > 'summary' (as in 'summary execn', not the sort @Marisa_C wants) ;)
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cuppa_coffee
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3:02 PM
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@CotterHUE @touqo they did it in own time, own house, own PC so probably not. Video not shown to class. #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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3:02 PM
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Time to wrap up this #eltchat - thank you all for joining!!! Is there anyone who would volunteer to write up the summary???
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touqo
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3:03 PM
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@cuppa_coffee sounds like a good approach! #eltchat @CotterHUE
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SimonGreenall
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3:03 PM
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@Marisa_C Thank you Marisa for todays #eltchat Bye!
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CotterHUE
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3:04 PM
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Great idea @cuppa_coffee: @touqo they did it in own time, own house, own PC so probably not. Video not shown to class. #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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3:04 PM
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@bhrbahar #Eltchat i too have witnessed such scenes
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prese1
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3:04 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @CotterHUE @touqo nice idea #eltchat
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esolcourses
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3:04 PM
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Thanks for another great #eltchat everyone! Got to dash, but hope to see you later if I can make it for chat number two :-)
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Marisa_C
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3:04 PM
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@SimonGreenall thanks for joining dear Simon - always great to have you join #eltchat :-)
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ELTchat
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3:05 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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Marisa_C
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3:05 PM
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Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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|
english247
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3:05 PM
|
No Valentine? Never mind - there's always chocolate ;-) A quiz on how chocolate is made http://t.co/IzOpoQfZ #eltchat #esol #esl #engpls
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BobK99
|
3:05 PM
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#eltchat There goes the dinner gong! Bye, and thks all :)
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bhrbahar
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3:06 PM
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@Marisa_C #ELTchat so especially for young Ls, it is better to use alternative assessment rather than formal testing.
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prese1
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3:06 PM
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@CotterHUE sts need English for work. There's no point in giving them HW/test to do at home 'cause only 10% of the class will do it #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
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3:07 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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Marisa_C
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3:07 PM
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@bhrbahar #ELTchat fully agree
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prese1
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3:08 PM
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Thanks for the chat #eltchat
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ELTchat
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3:08 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: See you all later - we'll be talking about how to survive the DELTA #eltchat join us at 21 p.m. GMT
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cuppa_coffee
|
3:09 PM
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@prese1 @CotterHUE depends on motivation, reason to study, reward, etc. If assessment part of final grade they'll do it! #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
|
3:10 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @bhrbahar #Eltchat i too have witnessed such scenes
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prese1
|
3:10 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @CotterHUE true #eltchat
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bhrbahar
|
3:11 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @bhrbahar #ELTchat fully agree
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username
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time
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status
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ELTchat
|
1:58 PM
|
1st #ELTchat topic today "Alternatives in assessment ÎΑΥ how to move away from the administration of formal tests in the classroom"
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Marisa_C
|
2:01 PM
|
Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to talk abt it?
|
|
4TheChallenge
|
2:02 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to t ...
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|
esolcourses
|
2:02 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Ready to start #ELTchat? Our topic how to move away from formal assessment in the classroom - who's present and keen to t ...
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:03 PM
|
@esolcourses Thank you for helping moderate this 1st #eltchat Sue - Shaun and James out of reach tofday
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bhrbahar
|
2:04 PM
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@Marisa_C #ELTchat I am ready =)
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Marisa_C
|
2:04 PM
|
@esolcourses on the other hand, we might both go back to what we were doing before - no one else seems to be here for #ELTchat
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SimonGreenall
|
2:05 PM
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@Marisa_C @esolcourses Hello, Marisa and Sue! #eltchat I'm kind of here.
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Marisa_C
|
2:05 PM
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@prese1 @bhrbahar #ELTchat hello and welcome :-)
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esolcourses
|
2:05 PM
|
@Marisa_C happy to help our when I can! & LOL! Shall we make a start? :-) Portfolio based assessment is one alternative #eltchat
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prese1
|
2:05 PM
|
hello everyone :) #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:06 PM
|
@SimonGreenall #eltchat welcome Simon! kind of nice to have u kind of here :-)
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Marisa_C
|
2:07 PM
|
Doesn't look as if we need to define 'formal' does it ? Tho quick for readers' sake, written, criterion based, graded...... #ELTchat
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prese1
|
2:07 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C Portfolio based learning? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:08 PM
|
@prese1 #eltchat Yes, a selection of a student's production (written) and now (digitally possible) spoken as well #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:09 PM
|
@prese1 #eltchat all
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prese1
|
2:09 PM
|
@esolcourses @Marisa_C age groups? #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:09 PM
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@prese1 @Marisa_C learners are assessed on a portfolio of work rather than taking an exam. Less pressure/more personalised #eltchat
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BobK99
|
2:10 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @esolcourses ...no one else seems to be here for #ELTchat > au contraire - just late :)
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Marisa_C
|
2:11 PM
|
Here is the EU website for portfolio assessment http://t.co/XIhjvx3x #eltchat
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eltknowledge
|
2:12 PM
|
Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:12 PM
|
@eltknowledge @BobK99 #ELTchat oooohhh great! time to move beyond the basics then :-)
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bhrbahar
|
2:12 PM
|
@esolcourses @prese1 @Marisa_C #ELTchat they focus on communication, production not on right or wrong answers.
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esolcourses
|
2:12 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Here is the EU website for portfolio assessment http://t.co/XIhjvx3x #eltchat
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eltknowledge
|
2:12 PM
|
Hi everyone! I'm here to join in on today's #ELTchat ! - Chia
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esolcourses
|
2:13 PM
|
RT @eltknowledge: Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat ] depends how it is done, perhaps?
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Marisa_C
|
2:13 PM
|
Here is a guideline document on portfolios from Europa http://t.co/t7gucrY6 #eltchat for those who have not use portfolio assessments
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eltknowledge
|
2:14 PM
|
@esolcourses @Marisa_C What are self placement models? Pardon the ignorance. #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
|
2:14 PM
|
@Marisa_C @esolcourses I'm checking in too... #ELTchat
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|
Marisa_C
|
2:14 PM
|
RT @eltknowledge: Do we consider placement testing as formal assessment too? #eltchat > I think so - not self placement models tho
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|
eltknowledge
|
2:15 PM
|
@Marisa_C That sounds interesting! How do learners do that? #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
|
2:15 PM
|
@chiasuan Can we not assign scores toassessed portfolios?? eg. CEFR grades by competency #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:15 PM
|
@eltknowledge #eltchat the elarners decide on their level -
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esolcourses
|
2:15 PM
|
@cuppa_coffee @Marisa_C good to see you here :-) #eltchat
|
|
BobK99
|
2:16 PM
|
#ELTchat The only formal assessment I was involved in didn't involve writing at all - it was for the National Open College Network -...1/2
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prese1
|
2:16 PM
|
@Marisa_C is it my impression or does it need learner autonomy? #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:16 PM
|
@eltknowledge #eltchat one example I have seen all in a large room and move from grp to grp
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cuppa_coffee
|
2:17 PM
|
@eltknowledge @esolcourses @Marisa_C self-placement = self-evaluation often reliable predictor if future performance #ELTchat
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eltknowledge
|
2:17 PM
|
@Marisa_C Fascinating. I'd love to see that in action. #eltchat
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esolcourses
|
2:17 PM
|
@Marisa_C @eltknowledge in theory, letting learners decide on level sounds good - not sure it would work in all contexts #eltchat
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bhrbahar
|
2:17 PM
|
@Marisa_C @eltknowledge #ELTchat the learners can have opportunity to assess themselves and their peers as well.
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chiasuan
|
2:17 PM
|
@cuppa_coffee I'd certainly be up 4that! Teachers continually assessment the progress of sts & giving CEFR scores. #eltchat
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eltknowledge
|
2:18 PM
|
I have a huge problem with discrete item testing, but if the formal tests evaluate general competencies, I'm more 4 it. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
|
2:18 PM
|
@esolcourses #eltchat no self placement would certainly not work in all contexts - but is an example of informal
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Marisa_C
|
2:19 PM
|
@eltknowledge #eltchat A good activity for summer courses i think
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|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:19 PM
|
@eltknowledge @Marisa_C could use CEFR or European Language Portfolio. Adapt to your context. #ELTchat
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|
BobK99
|
2:20 PM
|
#ELTchat ...2/2 FWIW there web site is https://t.co/a6xALCmA - but it wasn't ELT (Pg, beginners, writing was just not on the agenda)
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:21 PM
|
@bhrbahar @Marisa_C @eltknowledge could combine self & peer assessment in Maria's group activity #ELTchat
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:22 PM
|
@esolcourses @Marisa_C @eltknowledge still need to verify result by teacher, peers or sample writing/speech #ELTchat
|
|
eltknowledge
|
2:22 PM
|
AS the CEFR are only descriptors, how do u train teachers to apply them appropriately when testing? #eltchat
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|
Marisa_C
|
2:22 PM
|
I think if we are looking at alternative assessment a good idea to begin with what @bhrbahar mentioned - real tasks - self assesmnt #ELTchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:23 PM
|
Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:24 PM
|
@cuppa_coffee #ELTchat Another question - is discrete item testing suitable for alternative assessment models?
|
|
bhrbahar
|
2:25 PM
|
@Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, because the learners become more aware of what they are expected to do and also it can reduce the test anxiety
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:25 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat ] yes if possible, IMO
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|
esolcourses
|
2:26 PM
|
RT @cuppa_coffee @Marisa_C @eltknowledge still need to verify result by teacher, peers or sample writing/speech #ELTchat think so, yes
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|
Marisa_C
|
2:26 PM
|
RT @bhrbahar: @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, because Ss become more aware of what they are expected to do and also it can reduce the test anxiety
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:27 PM
|
@CotterHUE hi there! a very long time no see!!! welcome! #eltchat
|
|
UNIRidiomas
|
2:27 PM
|
@CotterHUE @Marisa_C How do you do it? #eltchat
|
|
KatelendM
|
2:27 PM
|
I think if learners started with a framework then it could work really well. But at first would need a lot of modelling. #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:27 PM
|
There is a kind of formality tho even in portfolio assessment #eltchat who selects samples of work to include - are they graded etc
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:27 PM
|
@eltknowledge Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising teacher assessment. #ELTchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:27 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Do you think that learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat yes, but have never done so.
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:28 PM
|
@KatelendM #eltchat the younger the learners or lower the level all the more need for lots of modelling = fully agree
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:28 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: There is a kind of formality tho even in portfolio assessment #eltchat who selects work to include - are they graded etc
|
|
eltknowledge
|
2:28 PM
|
RT @cuppa_coffee: Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising teacher assessment. #ELTchat
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:29 PM
|
@Marisa_C sure Second language learning requires knowledge as well as competency. Discrete test grammar, pron & vocabulary useful #eltchat
|
|
KatelendM
|
2:29 PM
|
if Ss help determine assessment criteria, that could be pulled from the SMART goals they establish first. #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:29 PM
|
Could this DVD for CEFR be shown to the Ss too? #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:29 PM
|
@Marisa_C thanks. Kids went to bed early for a change! #eltchat
|
|
eltknowledge
|
2:29 PM
|
I don't mean 2b pedantic but the word 'assessment' always strikes me as sthg formal. That's why I prefer 'testing' (as opp 2 tests) #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:29 PM
|
RT @eltknowledge: RT @cuppa_coffee: Council of Europe produce DVD showing samples at each CEFR band. Useful when standardising. #ELTchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:30 PM
|
@cuppa_coffee #eltchat good point - but since onus on INFORMAL assessment, don't u think best done thru holistic tasks?
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:30 PM
|
@Marisa_C agree. Difficult to get around that tho as teachers are often required to produce evidence of achievement... #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:31 PM
|
RT @KatelendM: if Ss help determine assessment criteria, that could be pulled from the SMART goals they establish first. #eltchat
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:31 PM
|
@Marisa_C ... tho that's not to say that learners can't be involved in selecting work to demonstrate achievement #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:31 PM
|
@eltknowledge interesting. For me, "testing" has more negative connotations than "assessment." #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:31 PM
|
@esolcourses #eltchat I know - school requirements often against this notion - big battle worldwide at the mo
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:32 PM
|
@Marisa_C why not. Some IELTS DVDs also have samples of different grades #ELTchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:32 PM
|
For me there is a very great need for Ts to see testing/assessment as only a small part of a borader course/programme evaluation #eltchat
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:33 PM
|
#ELTchat afternoon all
|
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:33 PM
|
MT @Marisa_C Do u think learners should be involved in establishing criteria for assessment? #eltchat>Yes! I also think it can take training
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:34 PM
|
@Marisa_C #eltchat welcome
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:34 PM
|
@esolcourses: @Marisa_C agree. re: evidence of achievement... Not only school,parents,companies, but many students want evidence. #eltchat
|
|
SimonGreenall
|
2:34 PM
|
@Marisa_C #eltchat The stakeholders in testin/assessment aren't only the students and teachers. They cn be parents, third party funders,MoE
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:34 PM
|
cont... many Ts convinced that tests only form of evaluation (by school, microculrure, habit..) #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:35 PM
|
Tests can be a teaching tool too. Go over answers, teach through mistakes, expand on important points. #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:35 PM
|
RT @esolcourses: @Marisa_C agree. You could say the same thing about education generally #eltchat > Indeed!
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:35 PM
|
@Marisa_C agree. You could say the same thing about education generally #eltchat
|
|
SimonGreenall
|
2:35 PM
|
@CotterHUE #eltchat Yes, agree.
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:35 PM
|
#ELTchat how often do you test/assess?
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:36 PM
|
@SimonGreenall @marisa_c totally agree -FE in UK for example, needs results or it doesn't get funding = test-heavy culture #ELTchat
|
|
prese1
|
2:37 PM
|
@pjgallantry @SimonGreenall @marisa_c same here #eltchat
|
|
msoskil
|
2:37 PM
|
@CotterHUE Yes. But, as formative assssmnts go tests rarely give kids the most feedback for the time it takes. There's better ways. #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:37 PM
|
@pjgallantry #ELTchat test happy too
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:38 PM
|
Personally not against formal testingbut see it only as a small part of the larger framework of diff ways of evaluating Ss T & crse #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:39 PM
|
But think of formal testing as a way of confirming informal assessments - which we also do da-to-day as Ts - let's not forget that #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:39 PM
|
@pjgallantry test at end of 1month but test is tool for review and Ss receive one-to-one feedback on whole course+work #eltchat
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:39 PM
|
@Marisa_C @pjgallantry but well designed test can cause positive backwash too #ELTchat
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:39 PM
|
#ELTchat problem with tests can be that they warp the curriculum, and push things too fast- because of exam timetable -not beneficial
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:40 PM
|
@msoskil @CotterHUE Good point. Single most important thing teacher can do to help progress is detailed evaluative feedback #ELTchat
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:40 PM
|
@cuppa_coffee @marisa_c true, but the key is well-designed - and well -timed! #ELTchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:41 PM
|
How about informal one-to-one tutorials as a way of ongoing informal evaluation - anyone tried them? #eltchat - based on clear criteria tho
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:41 PM
|
RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat problem with tests can be that they warp the curriculum, and push things too fast- because of exam timetable - ...
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:41 PM
|
RT @pjgallantry: @cuppa_coffee @marisa_c true, but the key is well-designed - and well -timed! #ELTchat ] agree
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:41 PM
|
@CotterHUE working in FE we have whole raft of formative and summarise assessments :p #ELTchat
|
|
cuppa_coffee
|
2:42 PM
|
@Marisa_C nice idea! Formal test = validation tool of informal test #ELTchat
|
|
touqo
|
2:42 PM
|
Isn't time in the classroom kind of wasted if it is spent on being quiet and doing tests? #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:43 PM
|
@touqo #eltchat very hard to say what is really a waste of time in the classroom
|
|
BobK99
|
2:43 PM
|
@Marisa_C #eltchat Maybe that explains the relative calm this week - ppp have just said 'I don't do fml testing', and given 12.00 a miss:-?
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:43 PM
|
#ELTchat some tests are designed with teacher/tester/organisation in mind, NOT the students - how is validity affected?
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:44 PM
|
@Marisa_C @touqo a game of football? :) #ELTchat
|
|
touqo
|
2:44 PM
|
@Marisa_C of course it depends. But sts are together in the classroom. Should do something together instead of alone? #eltchat
|
|
esolcourses
|
2:44 PM
|
@Marisa_C I've used informal one-to-one tutorials with adult learners to assess progress, tweak goals, etc. Worked well mostly, IME #eltchat
|
|
SimonGreenall
|
2:44 PM
|
@Marisa_C @touqo #eltchat Yes, and if tests are essential for other purposes, it's not really a waste of time.
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:44 PM
|
@BobK99 you could be right - we have adult classes for our CELTAs that we don't test at all - they have just asked for a test #eltchat
|
|
CotterHUE
|
2:45 PM
|
@touqo: time wasted being quiet and doing tests? devils advocate: how about tests as extrinsic motivation to balance? #eltchat
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:45 PM
|
@pjgallantry #ELTchat hours of fun on the board with grammar rules and ss with glazed eyes? is that useful time i wonder
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:46 PM
|
....#ELTchat and I allowed collaboartion - they said "we do everything in groups' ... What do you think happened?
|
|
Marisa_C
|
2:46 PM
|
I have mentioned this incident in another chat but may be worth repeating: group testing - my Ss complained abt indiv tests...cont #ELTchat
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:46 PM
|
#ELTchat problem can be this:what is the test testing?How we use language, how we use a particular Language point, or problem-solving skill?
|
|
pjgallantry
|
2:47 PM
|
@Marisa_C of course not productive....question is, how do you objectively test spontaneous language? #ELTchat
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prese1
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2:47 PM
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@Marisa_C what happened?#eltchat
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touqo
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2:47 PM
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@CotterHUE but you could do tests anywhere. In the classroom students are together. Give them tests which presuppose groupwork? #eltchat
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prese1
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2:47 PM
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@Marisa_C group testing ...sounds interesting #eltchat
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BobK99
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2:48 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: @Marisa_C of course not productive....question is, how do you objectively test spontaneous language? #ELTchat >Good qstn!
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Marisa_C
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2:48 PM
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@touqo #eltchat indeed - outcomes/.output can be collected from any poitnt - noted - recorded etc
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cuppa_coffee
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2:48 PM
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@touqo @Marisa_C If they are learning then fine with me. Talking together does not equal learning. Testing is a learning tool #ELTchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:49 PM
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@pjgallantry @Marisa_C #eltchat But it's not possible to test spontaneoous l objectively. It is possible to do so with validity.
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Marisa_C
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2:49 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat well... must point out that lack of objectivity in assessing productive skills holistically will always be an issue
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pjgallantry
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2:50 PM
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@Marisa_C agree entirely...one issue with testing is if you have the skill of knowing how to pass a test, you'll pass...!.....#ELTchat
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touqo
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2:50 PM
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I think in the future you can do individual tests anywhere. 1) tech can enable remote monitoring; 2) cheating is less of an issue. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:50 PM
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That's why assessors are regularly standardized - a discipline that would be v useful to Ts as well #eltchat
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CotterHUE
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2:51 PM
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@touqo fair point. Take home test would achieve same goal. Blackboard or other online tool for Ss to work at home, same motivator. #eltchat
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prese1
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2:52 PM
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@CotterHUE @touqo how many adult students would hand in a completed test? I wonder #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:52 PM
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RT @prese1: @Marisa_C what happened?#eltchat > the Ss' results after working in grps showed their diff levels of ability
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Marisa_C
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2:53 PM
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@pjgallantry test adrenalin levels :-) #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:53 PM
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@touqo great for discrete test items but what about production, speaking, fluency? Still value in classroom based testing #ELTchat
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touqo
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2:54 PM
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@cuppa_coffee good point. There are some things requiring F2F with the teacher. #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:54 PM
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RT @CotterHUE: RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat all testing does is demonstrate learners ability to pass tests... OR some Ss awful at tests yet ...
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Marisa_C
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2:54 PM
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@CotterHUE #ELTchat very true - many just bad test takers
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BobK99
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2:54 PM
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@pjgallantry #ELTchat 'learner's ability to pass tests' - I'm a case in point: 50+ years of sterile exam-passing!
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CotterHUE
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2:54 PM
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RT @pjgallantry: #ELTchat all testing does is demonstrate learners ability to pass tests... OR some Ss awful at tests yet know the material.
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Marisa_C
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2:56 PM
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About young learners - do you believe that formal testing suited for that age group? #Eltchat
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SimonGreenall
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2:56 PM
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@pjgallantry #eltchat Wot is going on in your tests? Do you play Ride of the Valkyries too? :)
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cuppa_coffee
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2:56 PM
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@CotterHUE @pjgallantry hence @Marisa_C desire to elevate more informal test as central to evaluation #ELTchat
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CotterHUE
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2:56 PM
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@prese1 Why are they learning a language? Are they hobbyists? Do they need English? Probably less of the former&more of the latter. #eltchat
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pjgallantry
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2:57 PM
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@SimonGreenall yes, and I bomb them with napalm. Keeps them on their toes ;) #ELTchat
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cuppa_coffee
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2:57 PM
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@touqo I have assessed speaking by recorded video. was very useful :-) #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:57 PM
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@SimonGreenall @pjgallantry #eltchat my affective filter hitting RED!!!! #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:58 PM
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@SimonGreenall #eltchat lol.... it's crippling that wot!
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SimonGreenall
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2:58 PM
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@pjgallantry #eltchat OKaaay. Is that formative or summative? :)
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Marisa_C
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2:59 PM
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Question abt young learners not really addressed in this #ELTchat - any last thoughts before we wrap up?
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CotterHUE
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3:00 PM
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@cuppa_coffee: @touqo I have assessed speaking by recorded video. was very useful :-) #ELTchat Were Ss more nervous with this assessment?
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pjgallantry
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3:00 PM
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#ELTchat thanks for the chat - short but sweet, but always informative. Have to go - preparing a class for an, er, exam....
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cuppa_coffee
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C @SimonGreenall test taking ability itself is useful life skill too remember #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat Actually no,I believe,they can be more productive when Ss feel relaxed.Sometimes they dont even know the meaning of test
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prese1
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3:00 PM
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@Marisa_C no...but parents expect feedback on how their kids are doing. School system does formal testing. #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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3:01 PM
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@cuppa_coffee that;s what official exmaining bodies would have us believe i think.... #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
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3:02 PM
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@Marisa_C #Eltchat Once one of my successful Ss was too anxious, was crying cause she thought IFshe makes a mistake,I'll not love heranymore
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BobK99
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3:02 PM
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mT @SimonGreenall: @pjgallantry #eltchat... formative or summative? :) > 'summary' (as in 'summary execn', not the sort @Marisa_C wants) ;)
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cuppa_coffee
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3:02 PM
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@CotterHUE @touqo they did it in own time, own house, own PC so probably not. Video not shown to class. #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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3:02 PM
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Time to wrap up this #eltchat - thank you all for joining!!! Is there anyone who would volunteer to write up the summary???
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touqo
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3:03 PM
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@cuppa_coffee sounds like a good approach! #eltchat @CotterHUE
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SimonGreenall
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3:03 PM
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@Marisa_C Thank you Marisa for todays #eltchat Bye!
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CotterHUE
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3:04 PM
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Great idea @cuppa_coffee: @touqo they did it in own time, own house, own PC so probably not. Video not shown to class. #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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3:04 PM
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@bhrbahar #Eltchat i too have witnessed such scenes
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prese1
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3:04 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @CotterHUE @touqo nice idea #eltchat
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esolcourses
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3:04 PM
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Thanks for another great #eltchat everyone! Got to dash, but hope to see you later if I can make it for chat number two :-)
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Marisa_C
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3:04 PM
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@SimonGreenall thanks for joining dear Simon - always great to have you join #eltchat :-)
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ELTchat
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3:05 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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Marisa_C
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3:05 PM
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Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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english247
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3:05 PM
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No Valentine? Never mind - there's always chocolate ;-) A quiz on how chocolate is made http://t.co/IzOpoQfZ #eltchat #esol #esl #engpls
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BobK99
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3:05 PM
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#eltchat There goes the dinner gong! Bye, and thks all :)
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bhrbahar
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3:06 PM
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@Marisa_C #ELTchat so especially for young Ls, it is better to use alternative assessment rather than formal testing.
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prese1
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3:06 PM
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@CotterHUE sts need English for work. There's no point in giving them HW/test to do at home 'cause only 10% of the class will do it #eltchat
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cuppa_coffee
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3:07 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Repeating call for summary of this #eltchat - please contact me if you would be willing to write it up
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Marisa_C
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3:07 PM
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@bhrbahar #ELTchat fully agree
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prese1
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3:08 PM
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Thanks for the chat #eltchat
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ELTchat
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3:08 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: See you all later - we'll be talking about how to survive the DELTA #eltchat join us at 21 p.m. GMT
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cuppa_coffee
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3:09 PM
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@prese1 @CotterHUE depends on motivation, reason to study, reward, etc. If assessment part of final grade they'll do it! #ELTchat
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bhrbahar
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3:10 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @bhrbahar #Eltchat i too have witnessed such scenes
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prese1
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3:10 PM
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@cuppa_coffee @CotterHUE true #eltchat
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bhrbahar
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3:11 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: @bhrbahar #ELTchat fully agree
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