Transcript of #ELTchat on July 25 21 p.m. BST here is the transcript in word format too
|
USER |
TIME |
TWEETS |
|
Marisa_C |
11:00 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol |
|
naomishema |
11:00 PM |
@Shaunwilden the last one? when do we resume chatting? #eltchat |
|
vickyloras |
11:00 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol so come join in |
|
GatewaytoSkills |
11:00 PM |
Grade 10-12 #SMARTboard activity has students go thru #writingprocess on screen & paper http://t.co/FrbGmMxB #engchat #eltchat #edchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:00 PM |
Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol so come join in |
|
hartle |
11:01 PM |
#eltchat hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:01 PM |
@naomishema End of august when many people go back to school #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:01 PM |
Who is here to talk about grammar for teachers? #ELTchat Anyone? or are you all on holiday already (with your grammar book, of course!) |
|
Marisa_C |
11:02 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? > don't know - any ideas anyone? |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:02 PM |
@hartle Oh its something people go one about but it's not imp :-) #eltchat |
|
naomishema |
11:02 PM |
@Shaunwilden got this tweet! thanks! #eltchat |
|
naomishema |
11:02 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? |
|
theteacherjames |
11:03 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? >> The stuff of nightmares!!! |
|
hartle |
11:04 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: RT @hartle: #eltchat hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? >> The stuff of nightmares!!! |
|
hartle |
11:04 PM |
#eltchat well... My mind, I must admit, has not been focused on rammar for a while... Must be the heat, the swimming pool... |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:04 PM |
@theteacherjames @hartle Really? #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:05 PM |
@Shaunwilden @hartle Grammar and I have a difficult relationship. I shall be furiously taking notes this evening. #eltchat |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:05 PM |
#eltchat A gent once told me to use Murphy's grammar book for homework. Gets it out of the way then. |
|
naomishema |
11:06 PM |
filling in grammar pages is what some ss call learning much to the dismay of teachers #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:06 PM |
@Marisa_C @uniquelanguages or even students #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:06 PM |
#eltchat. I remember, as a young teacher, being shocked at the atrocious behaviour of English verb forms though |
|
Marisa_C |
11:06 PM |
@uniquelanguages #eltchat Ah Murphy! Do you all think this is the right grammar for a teacher? |
|
hartle |
11:07 PM |
RT @theteacherjames:I shall be furiously taking notes this evening. #eltchat where will you be taking notes? Evernote, or n a piece of paper |
|
theteacherjames |
11:07 PM |
@hartle yes, their behaviour is appalling, isn't it? #eltchat |
|
Wiktor_K |
11:07 PM |
Hello all - massive headache today - will lurk in fear of getting my grammar mixed with migraine. Good to see you again, though. #ELTchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:08 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So, how many - if any - grammars do you consult before you teach a language point? #eltchat |
|
idc74 |
11:08 PM |
@uniquelanguages #eltchat Study grammar outside the classroom, and practise in the classroom, right? http://t.co/EIVIjG1u |
|
harrisonmike |
11:08 PM |
@theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though - one form for all persons #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:08 PM |
@hartle On a metaphorical notepad. ;-) #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:08 PM |
RT @uniquelanguages: #eltchat A gent once told me to use Murphy's grammar book for homework... Murphy, oh no! Heaven forbid!! |
|
vickyloras |
11:08 PM |
RT @naomishema: filling in grammar pages is what some ss call learning much to the dismay of teachers #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:09 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat Lol thanks!!! |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:09 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though - one form for all persons #eltchat |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:09 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Not all of it of course, but I believe that it can help to consolidate the grammar for students. #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:09 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @hartle yes, their behaviour is appalling, isn't it? #eltchat It is, but with age I've become more tolerant |
|
naomishema |
11:09 PM |
@harrisonmike past simple includes all those irregular verbs. so many ss of mine think "saw" is a tool instead of past of see. sigh #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:09 PM |
@Marisa_C I know it been a while but remember to use the hashtag #eltchat ;-) |
|
natibrandi |
11:10 PM |
#eltchat hi all! Parrot has helped me go over mean, form, pron, usage. It's a hard thing to do n grammar handouts for ss sometimes dont |
|
Marisa_C |
11:10 PM |
@uniquelanguages Our subject is not what grammar you use with your students but what grammar you know or ought to know #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:10 PM |
@naomishema that's the knowledge of context that's troubling them then #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:10 PM |
#eltchat on a more serious note I can't imagine wanting to teach English without having language awareness and a love of language. |
|
theteacherjames |
11:10 PM |
@hartle It's not like they can help it, is it? #eltchat |
|
naomishema |
11:11 PM |
@harrisonmike also choosing the first meaning they find in dic which is always a noun #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:12 PM |
#eltchat the English verb and IH lang awareness course also help. Corpora to look 4 examples has helped me too. |
|
hartle |
11:12 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @hartle On a metaphorical notepad. ;-) #eltchat Oh, I'd like one of those :-) |
|
Marisa_C |
11:12 PM |
@natibrandi #eltchat Martin Parrott's book is great http://t.co/Dq7H8zT6 |
|
naomishema |
11:12 PM |
@harrisonmike i agree completely. its getting them to do it is what makes me sigh! #eltchat |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:12 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat Thanks. Inevitably late to the party and multi-tasking as well. Shall try and maintain concentration. |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:12 PM |
@natibrandi Hey Nat, how's montevideo - Parrot's book has always been a must for me #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:12 PM |
@hartle A love of language & a love of how it's organised can be quite different, though. #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:12 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though #eltchat Ah, but there are..Auxiliaries, tags... |
|
harrisonmike |
11:12 PM |
@naomishema they need to look when they find it and look for adjectives or articles preceding it, or a subject pronoun #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:13 PM |
@harrisonmike #eltchat Translate that into English Mike :-) |
|
theteacherjames |
11:13 PM |
@hartle You do, it's right there in front of you! #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:13 PM |
I remember reading that the problem with English is that a Latinate case system was laid over a Germanic language. Is that right? #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:13 PM |
@natibrandi #eltchat are u advertising here? |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:14 PM |
@Marisa_C @natibrandi Not really its a course all our school have for their teacher development sessions #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:14 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @hartle @theteacherjames at least the subjunctive is almost invisible in English =) #eltchat |
|
Wiktor_K |
11:14 PM |
RT @natibrandi: #eltchat the English verb and IH lang awareness course also help. <- I second that - IH course rocked! #ELTchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:15 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat still cold here! I recommend Yule for conditionals too, gr8 approach thinking of the meaning of each clause not 1st... |
|
hartle |
11:15 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @hartle A love of language... a love ...#eltchat True, but a grasp of grammar + a dab of lexical knowhow= expression |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:15 PM |
Looking through the vast UL library, I see we have English Grammar Today and the Michael Swan book. Find Carter useful. #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:15 PM |
@harrisonmike @hartle True, that's something I suppose. And we don't have to worry about gender. #eltchat |
|
BookMachine |
11:15 PM |
#ELT Teachers can become authors http://t.co/LGOBSZUS #ELTchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:16 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @harrisonmike @hartle True, that's something I suppose. And we don't have to worry about gender. #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:16 PM |
I would recommend "Meaning & the Enlgish Verb" by Geoffrey Leech very highly #ELTchat |
|
teacherphili |
11:16 PM |
just found out this is the last #ELTchat for while. Grammar, eh? I'm gonna lurk around. I know I've got some books on that somewhere.. |
|
harrisonmike |
11:16 PM |
This is the book! Brilliant at explaining some of the idiosyncrasies of language (inc. English) http://t.co/p7q75or9 #guydeutscher #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:16 PM |
@hartle #eltchat agree! |
|
hartle |
11:16 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @hartle You do, it's right there in front of you! #eltchat ohhh, that one! Got it! |
|
harrisonmike |
11:17 PM |
@theteacherjames and the cases are at least not so important as, for example, in German. #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:18 PM |
#eltchat all these things R good, grammars like Sean + direct analysis of elements in corpora to see what is often invisible.. Dare I say it |
|
harrisonmike |
11:18 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I would recommend "Meaning & the Enlgish Verb" by Geoffrey Leech very highly #ELTchat |
|
naomishema |
11:18 PM |
i know its just me but I'm lost when you talk about specific grammar books - we have different ones! #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:19 PM |
#eltchat yes, semantic prosody and collocaton that goes beyond just "verb" + "noun" pairings |
|
natibrandi |
11:19 PM |
@Marisa_C @harrisonmike #eltchat lol... Grammar is hard, just acknowledging sources that have helped me. My mobile is slow sorry! |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:19 PM |
So we've all mentioned our fave books on the topic but what is it we should know? #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:19 PM |
@Marisa_C although with caution about what Leech says about degrees of certainty with the futures! #eltchat cf The English Verb - Lewis |
|
Marisa_C |
11:19 PM |
I am often distressed by the lack of language awareness in teachers #ELTchat - it's cool to not know grammar esp if a NEST |
|
harrisonmike |
11:20 PM |
@Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:20 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: I like your 'with caution' statement - it's true that consulting ONE grammar only is not enough #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:21 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I am often distressed by the lack ... #ELTchat - it's cool...Yes, I agree... Very worrying & common in Celta cands. |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:21 PM |
#eltchat English Grammar Today: Comprehensive and explains everything well. |
|
theteacherjames |
11:22 PM |
@Marisa_C I don't think it's cool but I also don't think it's the end of the world. As long as you know enough, it's okay. #ELTchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:22 PM |
@hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat awareness of the meaning of the structures and ability to notice them, i'd say it's very really important |
|
Marisa_C |
11:22 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat > or with the present; or with the present perfect ...etc |
|
nathanghall |
11:23 PM |
@theteacherjames What's enough? Where is the line? It's not that I disagree with you, though #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:23 PM |
@harrisonmike yes, a lot of our grammar was invented by snobs who imposed latin structures onto a germanic language. #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:23 PM |
@theteacherjames #ELTchat Well, this is our subject tonight - what do u think is enough? Just a street ahead from the Ss? |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:23 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat |
|
hartle |
11:23 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @harrisonmike: it's true that consulting ONE grammar only is not enough #eltchat Absolutely, critical thinking required |
|
nathanghall |
11:23 PM |
I have found The Teacher's Grammar of English from CUP to quite good. http://t.co/hR6nF9dm #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:23 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat yes, semantic prosody and collocaton that goes beyond just "verb" + "noun" pairings |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:24 PM |
#eltchat A little bit of everything and a lot of the important bits. |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:24 PM |
RT @nathanghall: There is a difference in knowing the grammar to isolate and help students than teaching it to the students #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:24 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat Shock horror! Even worse |
|
Collaborative |
11:24 PM |
#CrowdFunding & #Quality Process Model ISO 9001:2000 http://t.co/X8n1FTgy #CrowdParty #vlang #webheads #eltchat #esol #globalkids |
|
nathanghall |
11:24 PM |
There is a difference in knowing the grammar to isolate and help students than teaching it to the students #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:24 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @harrisonmike: @Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat. I warned you abt those verbs !, |
|
theteacherjames |
11:25 PM |
@nathanghall @Marisa_C It's very hard to say, really depends on the situation. #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:26 PM |
@hartle agreed but help them clearly and not go into info overload about piece of language #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:26 PM |
@nathanghall #eltchat hi. You need to know a lot to help ss, though. How are u gonna guide grammar discovery of u r not aware? |
|
theteacherjames |
11:26 PM |
At least I'm aware of my weakness. I have the collected might of Thornbury, Ur, Harmer, & Swan to help: http://t.co/ykHMiqQe #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:26 PM |
#eltchat teachers need to be able to help stds with the questions they have... Or they need to know where to direct them to find answers |
|
theteacherjames |
11:27 PM |
@harrisonmike Split infinitives, for example were invented by one man! http://t.co/is6tPTNp #eltchat |
|
nathanghall |
11:28 PM |
@natibrandi My point exactly. You need to know more than 'enough' to be able to isolate problems and focus your help for the Ss #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:28 PM |
@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden I was only talking about the past simple before ;-) #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:28 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: At least I'm aware of my weakness. I have the collected might.. http://t.co/b17vz1mk #eltchat Exactly eht I meant :-) |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:29 PM |
@nathanghall @natibrandi Which, as @Marisa_C said is something NESTs really dont know coming into the profession #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:29 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @harrisonmike Split infinitives http://t.co/pPXyjs07 #eltchat. Some of my stds need to find infinitives!!! |
|
nathanghall |
11:29 PM |
I'm no grammar expert by any means, but I'm not dismissing it either. I feel it is important to have a strong foundation. #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:29 PM |
@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden but basic formula of futures is simple - will + inf, going to + inf. it's meaning that is fuzzy #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:30 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle agreed but help them clearly and not go into info overload about piece of language #eltchat yes that's the opposite |
|
natibrandi |
11:31 PM |
@nathanghall #eltchat and how not to overload sa with meta language. I know we neee to know the metalanguage but does it enhance ss' learnin |
|
CELT_Athens |
11:31 PM |
#ELTchat at Braz-TESOL 2012 – Here is what they said…. http://t.co/cajY8Xgu #ELTchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:31 PM |
#ELTchat at Braz-TESOL 2012 – Here is what they said….:             http://t.co/x27PuQje #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:31 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden... it's meaning that is fuzzy #eltchat U can't separate meaning frm form. They go together |
|
eannegrenoble |
11:31 PM |
Evening all - (...) @Marisa_C said is something NESTs really dont know coming into the profession #eltchat >> I am often amazed at how true |
|
harrisonmike |
11:31 PM |
@Shaunwilden @nathanghall @natibrandi @Marisa_C I only knew what I'd did of English grammar having studied French and German #eltchat |
|
theteacherjames |
11:32 PM |
Thing I find most difficult is not 'teaching grammar', but having the awareness to identify the language that isn't being produced. #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:32 PM |
@harrisonmike Why? #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:32 PM |
Apologies to breat the #ELTchat with an #ELTchat blog post - have a read later pls - don't disappear |
|
mubeenfk |
11:32 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I am often distressed by the lack of language awareness in teachers #ELTchat - it's cool to not know grammar esp if a NEST |
|
nathanghall |
11:32 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own or another language #language #awareness |
|
harrisonmike |
11:32 PM |
#eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own or another language #language #awareness |
|
nathanghall |
11:32 PM |
Balance is critical. We don't have to hit the students over the head with it, but grammar isn't evil. It is just knowledge - a tool #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:33 PM |
There are several grammars published for teachers these days - no need to use student grammars as a source #ELTchat some mentioned already |
|
nathanghall |
11:33 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat what is worrying is tht very little LA required to become teachers, so these teachers can do skills work but that's about it. |
|
hartle |
11:33 PM |
#eltchat what is worrying is tht very little LA required to become teachers, so these teachers can do skills work but that's about it. |
|
harrisonmike |
11:33 PM |
@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden ah but maybe my meaning is different from your understanding as well ;-) #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:34 PM |
The problem is that many of them are a bit too abstruse for a beginning teacher - but we should all graduate to those #ELTchat |
|
hartle |
11:34 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own... Yes, yes, yes!! |
|
eannegrenoble |
11:34 PM |
@theteacherjames: the awareness to identify the language that isn't being produced. #eltchat >> much easier with monoling class |
|
theteacherjames |
11:34 PM |
When I started teaching my grammar was very good, I just couldn't explain it at all. I've improved a lot over time. #eltchat |
|
uniquelanguages |
11:34 PM |
@harrisonmike #eltchat I have heard this said before and I am inclined to agree. My poor attempts at learning languages make me sympathise |
|
harrisonmike |
11:34 PM |
@Shaunwilden to develop your awareness of language in general, learn that they don't work the same way, 2be able to empathise w sts #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:34 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Thing I find most difficult is not 'teaching grammar but..... identifying the lang that isn't being produced. #eltchat |
|
eannegrenoble |
11:35 PM |
@theteacherjames grammar for L1 β‰ grammar for L2 #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:35 PM |
@Marisa_C @theteacherjames #eltchat you need to know way more cause u need to carefully 'curate' what to bring to class |
|
theteacherjames |
11:35 PM |
@eannegrenoble I think it's a skill that takes quite a long time to develop, unless you're a grammar demon! #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:35 PM |
@Marisa_C Parrott is very accessible. Wish I'd had that before doing the delta. Would have been in a better starting position #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:35 PM |
@harrisonmike but couldnt you just google what the differences are ;-) #eltchat |
|
nathanghall |
11:36 PM |
RT @eannegrenoble: @theteacherjames grammar for L1 β‰ grammar for L2 #eltchat --> Agreed, but L2 for teachers is really helpful |
|
harrisonmike |
11:36 PM |
@Shaunwilden google can't do language well enough for that. It doesn't have capacity for shades of meaning #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:36 PM |
@tim_crangle evening, so what are your thoughts? #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:36 PM |
Also a book which is not exactly a grammar but a good resource for Ts "Teaching Tenses" by R. Aitken esp useful for NNESTs #ELTchat |
|
tim_crangle |
11:36 PM |
Evening. Sorry I missed the beginning. Have been lurking for last 10 mins to get gist of what has been said. #ELTCHAT |
|
eannegrenoble |
11:37 PM |
@Shaunwilden ah but maybe my meaning is different from your understanding as well ;-) #eltchat >> Bas Aarts "Fuzzy Grammar" great overview |
|
hartle |
11:37 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @harrisonmike #eltchat i agree tht learning another lang. Really helps putting teacher in std's shoes, seeing problems etc |
|
theteacherjames |
11:37 PM |
RT @natibrandi: @theteacherjames #eltchat avoidance! One of the hardest things to identify. Dictogloss is a good technique to know about our ss' grammar |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:37 PM |
@harrisonmike I was joshing :-) #eltchat |
|
natibrandi |
11:37 PM |
@theteacherjames #eltchat avoidance! One of the hardest things to identify. Dictogloss is a good technique to know about our ss' grammar |
|
nathanghall |
11:37 PM |
Sorry, forgot the hashtag again :( #eltchat |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:37 PM |
@Marisa_C That a super book esp for LA assignment on a CELTA :-) #eltchat |
|
hartle |
11:38 PM |
RT @tim_crangle: Evening. Sorry I missed the beginning. Have been lurking for last 10 mins to get gist of what has been said #ELTCHAT Hi Tim |
|
Shaunwilden |
11:38 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:38 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @Marisa_C That a super book esp for LA assignment on a CELTA :-) #eltchat > Yes |
|
Marisa_C |
11:38 PM |
I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat |
|
nathanghall |
11:39 PM |
Don't rely on the coursebooks to help you learn the grammar. Many have mistakes/over generalize. Another reason to know the grammar #eltchat |
|
harrisonmike |
11:39 PM |
@Shaunwilden =) #eltchat |
|
Marisa_C |
11:40 PM |
RT @eannegrenoble: RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat > not really no |
|
theteacherjames |
11:40 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat |
|
tim_crangle |
11:40 PM |
Have ss with grammar MCQs in exams - need 2 study specific points RT @Shaunwilden: @tim_crangle evening, so what are your thoughts? #ELTCHAT |
|
natibrandi |
11:40 PM |
@hartle @shaunwilden @harrisonmike #eltchat agree! We need to know about ss' interlanguage, typical mistakes, learner corpora! |
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eannegrenoble |
11:40 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat |
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theteacherjames |
11:40 PM |
Re: (justified) criticism of NEST - You have to bear in mind I studied no grammar at school. Only began once I was a teacher. #eltchat |
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hartle |
11:40 PM |
#eltchat another problem I have is stds' belief that grammar and accuracy are the be all and end all of language. Some teachers believe it 2 |
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motherchina |
11:41 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:41 PM |
RT @DianadeBelflor: @harrisonmike Of course! Knowing the difficulties the student may faces and strategies of learning is essential #eltchat |
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DianadeBelflor |
11:41 PM |
@harrisonmike Of course! Knowing the difficulties the student may faces and strategies of learning is essential #eltchat |
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eannegrenoble |
11:42 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat I also think teachers need more than grammar books. You need a "feel" for how things work too, eithout being a demon, of course |
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nathanghall |
11:42 PM |
Personal PD is critical. Spend time on your own to improve yourself. You owe it to them and yourself to be the best you can be. #eltchat |
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eannegrenoble |
11:42 PM |
@nathanghall: (...) Another reason to know the grammar >> ? THE grammar >many possible ways of describing how language works #eltchat |
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hartle |
11:42 PM |
#eltchat I also think teachers need more than grammar books. You need a "feel" for how things work too, eithout being a demon, of course |
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motherchina |
11:42 PM |
RT @eannegrenoble: RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat |
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tim_crangle |
11:42 PM |
@hartle Hi! #ELTCHAT |
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Shaunwilden |
11:43 PM |
@hartle Yes the feel is important, esp when trying to convince that sth really doesnt follow the rules they learned #eltchat |
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Wiktor_K |
11:43 PM |
For me, the hardest thing has always been emphasising the difference between grammar in "theory" and accepted, but "wrong" usage #ELTchat |
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harrisonmike |
11:43 PM |
@teacherdude I wonder how well I'd fare with a new language now. Or perhaps relearning one. #eltchat |
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nathanghall |
11:44 PM |
@eannegrenoble Completely agree. Sociolinguistics, genre, etc. are important. But many will focus on those and bypass grammar #eltchat |
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harrisonmike |
11:45 PM |
1/2 #eltchat underlying everything, you also need to realise that language is merely meaning clothed in sounds. It's what makes it... |
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Marisa_C |
11:45 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat Feel is very important - hence a teacher without it not really suited to teaching advanced levels - right? |
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theteacherjames |
11:46 PM |
CUP are giving a way a free 5 hour Grammar awareness course on their teacher network: http://t.co/oIInF6pe #eltchat @CamEngTeacher |
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natibrandi |
11:46 PM |
@hartle #eltchat sure! N ability to notice n understand it in real contexts, most grammar books dont really bring that |
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Shaunwilden |
11:46 PM |
@Marisa_C I hesitate to agree as this is often an unfairly touted excuse for not allowing NNESTS to teach advanced #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:46 PM |
@nathanghall #eltchat you named most areas that make sense of grammar - adding discourse, phonology etc - are Ts willing to study tho? |
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hartle |
11:46 PM |
#eltchat teachers can "play" with grammar or parts of speech at least 2 in creative eays such as the Language Garden http://t.co/dJZtwRWU |
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harrisonmike |
11:46 PM |
2/2 #eltchat ... so interesting and complicated! |
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Shaunwilden |
11:47 PM |
@Marisa_C I can I have been in many a situation where i feel it was merely an excuse #eltchat |
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hartle |
11:47 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @Shaunwilden #eltchat Feel is very important - hence a teacher without it not really suited to teaching adva... Yes, agreed |
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Marisa_C |
11:47 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat Knowledge and feel is objective - u cannot be politically correct abt it and I declare this as a NNEST |
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nathanghall |
11:48 PM |
@Marisa_C I guess it depends on how much value each person puts in it. Can't speak for all teachers. #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:48 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat Agree this can happen |
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hartle |
11:48 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat language is merely meaning clothed in sounds... Like this: & teachers can help stds learn which clothes to choose |
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theteacherjames |
11:49 PM |
Believe it or not, I reviewed a grammar book once. Heartily recommended for a different approach: http://t.co/UC3kIF7x #eltchat |
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harrisonmike |
11:49 PM |
@hartle Language Walk In Wardrobe? ;-) #eltchat |
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hartle |
11:50 PM |
#eltchat thnx fir this chat everyone. Have to go now. Have a gr8 summer :-) When's next chat??? |
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nathanghall |
11:50 PM |
@theteacherjames Link isn't working for me. #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:50 PM |
Who said? "I read grammar books in bed - I have a masters in linguistics - but normal ppl get their kicks some other way" #ELTchat |
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harrisonmike |
11:51 PM |
@theteacherjames why wouldn't we believe it? ;-) #eltchat |
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theteacherjames |
11:51 PM |
@tim_crangle @nathanghall Second try: http://t.co/giTJeGE9 #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:51 PM |
@nathanghall I could have said that but I didn't actually #eltchat |
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hartle |
11:51 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: @hartle Language Walk In Wardrobe? ;-) #eltchat or the Lion, the language and the wardrobe... |
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tim_crangle |
11:51 PM |
Me neither RT @nathanghall: @theteacherjames Link isnt working for me. #ELTCHAT |
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nathanghall |
11:51 PM |
@Marisa_C Ugh. Not me. Grammar books are boring for the most part. #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:52 PM |
RT @nathanghall: @Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat |
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theteacherjames |
11:52 PM |
@harrisonmike Did you not read my other tweets? ;-) The intro to my review explains all! #eltchat |
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nathanghall |
11:52 PM |
@Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat |
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nathanghall |
11:53 PM |
I have a copy of this on my desk. Nice little reference books for when teachers come asking questions: http://t.co/bJp9zZ50 #eltchat |
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Shaunwilden |
11:53 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat |
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tim_crangle |
11:53 PM |
@theteacherjames works now tnx #ELTCHAT |
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theteacherjames |
11:54 PM |
RT @nathanghall: @Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat |
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David__Boughton |
11:54 PM |
@nathanghall I find the is the best grammar resource I have. #ELTChat |
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harrisonmike |
11:54 PM |
@theteacherjames I joined late #eltchat got it now |
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natibrandi |
11:54 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat read real ones n revisit them to find good chuncks in context, then analyse mean, form, etc. A bit freakish but good |
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eannegrenoble |
11:54 PM |
I'm not sure there's much point in "teaching a grammar point" but seems diff to teach language without being INTERESTED in gramr ? #eltchat |
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tim_crangle |
11:55 PM |
This may have been said before tonight but doesn't grammar teacher shld know depend on student's L1? #ELTCHAT |
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theteacherjames |
11:55 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Coming up on 5 minutes left, time to start clamouring to be the first to volunteer for the summary #eltchat |
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theteacherjames |
11:55 PM |
@harrisonmike :-) #eltchat |
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Marisa_C |
11:55 PM |
Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time |
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Shaunwilden |
11:55 PM |
Coming up on 5 minutes left, time to start clamouring to be the first to volunteer for the summary #eltchat |
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nathanghall |
11:56 PM |
@tim_crangle There is that, but a strong foundation in your own grammar will help you isolate the problems as well. #eltchat |
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theteacherjames |
11:56 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Watch these 2 videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/NCBoB2oa & http://t.co/9zxW9GcP #ELTchat when u have time> I will! |
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Marisa_C |
11:56 PM |
@tim_crangle #ELTCHAT No it hasn't been mentioned - but some knowledge of L1 systems helps - read "Learner English" by M Swan ed |
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harrisonmike |
11:56 PM |
@eannegrenoble yuk 2me 'teaching a language point' isn't teaching language. Wud only ever do that w/ v analytical learners if ever! #eltchat |
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natibrandi |
11:56 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time |
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harrisonmike |
11:57 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @tim_crangle #ELTCHAT No it hasn't been mentioned - but some knowledge of L1 systems helps - read "Learner English" by M Swan ed |
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theteacherjames |
11:58 PM |
Enjoy the final words of French grammarian Dominique Bouhours: I am about to – or I am going to – die. Either is correct.†#eltchat |
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David__Boughton |
11:59 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time |
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harrisonmike |
11:59 PM |
Watch this too from @thornburyscott 7 ways of looking at grammar #eltchat it's an hr long tho, so when you have time! http://t.co/egJBOFlB |
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Marisa_C |
11:59 PM |
Shouldn't Ts be analytical learners by definition and have excellent knowledge of their subject matter? Language? and its systems? #ELTchat |
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eannegrenoble |
11:59 PM |
@harrisonmike yeah - I hope that's what i said meant - "there's no point in teaching a point of grammar" #eltchat |
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natibrandi |
11:59 PM |
#eltchat thanks. A pleasure to join u but now im 5 mins late to class. Bye evereyone! |