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The Grammar Teachers Ought to Know and Often Don't

Page history last edited by Marisa Constantinides 11 years, 11 months ago

Transcript of #ELTchat on July 25 21 p.m. BST here is the transcript in word format too 

 

 

USER

TIME

TWEETS

Marisa_C

11:00 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol

naomishema

11:00 PM

@Shaunwilden the last one? when do we resume chatting? #eltchat

vickyloras

11:00 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol so come join in

GatewaytoSkills

11:00 PM

Grade 10-12 #SMARTboard activity has students go thru #writingprocess on screen & paper http://t.co/FrbGmMxB #engchat #eltchat #edchat

Shaunwilden

11:00 PM

Time for #eltchat The grammar teachers ought to know…& often don't. - it's the last one before we have a summer hol so come join in

hartle

11:01 PM

#eltchat  hi everyone... Grammar? What's that?

Shaunwilden

11:01 PM

@naomishema End of august when many people go back to school #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:01 PM

Who is here to talk about grammar for teachers? #ELTchat Anyone? or are you all on holiday already (with your grammar book, of course!)

Marisa_C

11:02 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat  hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? > don't know - any ideas anyone?

Shaunwilden

11:02 PM

@hartle Oh its something people go one about but it's not imp :-) #eltchat

naomishema

11:02 PM

@Shaunwilden got this tweet! thanks! #eltchat

naomishema

11:02 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat  hi everyone... Grammar? What's that?

theteacherjames

11:03 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat  hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? >> The stuff of nightmares!!!

hartle

11:04 PM

RT @theteacherjames: RT @hartle: #eltchat  hi everyone... Grammar? What's that? >> The stuff of nightmares!!!

hartle

11:04 PM

#eltchat well... My mind, I must admit, has not been focused on rammar for a while... Must be the heat, the swimming pool...

Shaunwilden

11:04 PM

@theteacherjames @hartle Really? #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:05 PM

@Shaunwilden @hartle Grammar and I have a difficult relationship. I shall be furiously taking notes this evening. #eltchat

uniquelanguages

11:05 PM

#eltchat  A gent once told me to use Murphy's grammar book for homework.  Gets it out of the way then.

naomishema

11:06 PM

filling in grammar pages is what some ss call learning much to the dismay of teachers #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:06 PM

@Marisa_C @uniquelanguages or even students #eltchat

hartle

11:06 PM

#eltchat. I remember, as a young teacher, being shocked at the atrocious behaviour of English verb forms though

Marisa_C

11:06 PM

@uniquelanguages  #eltchat Ah Murphy! Do you all think this is the right grammar for a teacher?

hartle

11:07 PM

RT @theteacherjames:I shall be furiously taking notes this evening. #eltchat where will you be taking notes? Evernote, or n a piece of paper

theteacherjames

11:07 PM

@hartle yes, their behaviour is appalling, isn't it? #eltchat

Wiktor_K

11:07 PM

Hello all - massive headache today - will lurk in fear of getting my grammar mixed with migraine. Good to see you again, though. #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

11:08 PM

RT @Marisa_C: So, how many - if any - grammars do you consult before you teach a language point? #eltchat

idc74

11:08 PM

@uniquelanguages #eltchat Study grammar outside the classroom, and practise in the classroom, right? http://t.co/EIVIjG1u

harrisonmike

11:08 PM

@theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though - one form for all persons #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:08 PM

@hartle On a metaphorical notepad. ;-) #eltchat

hartle

11:08 PM

RT @uniquelanguages: #eltchat  A gent once told me to use Murphy's grammar book for homework... Murphy, oh no! Heaven forbid!!

vickyloras

11:08 PM

RT @naomishema: filling in grammar pages is what some ss call learning much to the dismay of teachers #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:09 PM

@Shaunwilden  #eltchat Lol thanks!!!

Shaunwilden

11:09 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though - one form for all persons #eltchat

uniquelanguages

11:09 PM

@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C  Not all of it of course, but I believe that it can help to consolidate the grammar for students.  #eltchat

hartle

11:09 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @hartle yes, their behaviour is appalling, isn't it? #eltchat It is, but with age I've become more tolerant

naomishema

11:09 PM

@harrisonmike past simple includes all those irregular verbs. so many ss of mine think "saw" is a tool instead of past of see. sigh #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:09 PM

@Marisa_C I know it been a while but remember to use the hashtag #eltchat ;-)

natibrandi

11:10 PM

#eltchat hi all! Parrot has helped me go over mean, form, pron, usage. It's a hard thing to do n grammar handouts for ss sometimes dont

Marisa_C

11:10 PM

@uniquelanguages Our subject is not what grammar you use with your students but what grammar you know or ought to know  #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:10 PM

@naomishema that's the knowledge of context that's troubling them then #eltchat

hartle

11:10 PM

#eltchat on a more serious note I can't imagine wanting to teach English without having language awareness and a love of language.

theteacherjames

11:10 PM

@hartle It's not like they can help it, is it? #eltchat

naomishema

11:11 PM

@harrisonmike also choosing the first meaning they find in dic which is always a noun #eltchat

natibrandi

11:12 PM

#eltchat the English verb and IH lang awareness course also help. Corpora to look 4 examples has helped me too.

hartle

11:12 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @hartle On a metaphorical notepad. ;-) #eltchat Oh, I'd like one of those :-)

Marisa_C

11:12 PM

@natibrandi  #eltchat Martin Parrott's book is great http://t.co/Dq7H8zT6

naomishema

11:12 PM

@harrisonmike i agree completely. its getting them to do it is what makes me sigh! #eltchat

uniquelanguages

11:12 PM

@Marisa_C #eltchat  Thanks.  Inevitably late to the party and multi-tasking as well.  Shall try and maintain concentration.

Shaunwilden

11:12 PM

@natibrandi Hey Nat, how's montevideo  - Parrot's book has always been a must for me #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:12 PM

@hartle A love of language & a love of how it's organised can be quite different, though. #eltchat

hartle

11:12 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames @hartle past simple once you know it is easy though #eltchat Ah, but there are..Auxiliaries, tags...

harrisonmike

11:12 PM

@naomishema they need to look when they find it and look for adjectives or articles preceding it, or a subject pronoun #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:13 PM

@harrisonmike  #eltchat Translate that into English Mike :-)

theteacherjames

11:13 PM

@hartle You do, it's right there in front of you! #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:13 PM

I remember reading that the problem with English is that a Latinate case system was laid over a Germanic language. Is that right? #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:13 PM

@natibrandi  #eltchat are u advertising here?

Shaunwilden

11:14 PM

@Marisa_C @natibrandi Not really its a course all our school have for their teacher development sessions  #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:14 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @hartle @theteacherjames at least the subjunctive is almost invisible in English =) #eltchat

Wiktor_K

11:14 PM

RT @natibrandi: #eltchat the English verb and IH lang awareness course also help. <- I second that - IH course rocked! #ELTchat

natibrandi

11:15 PM

@Shaunwilden #eltchat still cold here! I recommend Yule for conditionals too, gr8 approach thinking of the meaning of each clause not 1st...

hartle

11:15 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @hartle A love of language... a love ...#eltchat  True, but a grasp of grammar + a dab of lexical knowhow= expression

uniquelanguages

11:15 PM

Looking through the vast UL library, I see we have English Grammar Today and the Michael Swan book.  Find Carter useful.  #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:15 PM

@harrisonmike @hartle True, that's something I suppose. And we don't have to worry about gender. #eltchat

BookMachine

11:15 PM

#ELT Teachers can become authors http://t.co/LGOBSZUS #ELTchat

harrisonmike

11:16 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @harrisonmike @hartle True, that's something I suppose. And we don't have to worry about gender. #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:16 PM

I would recommend "Meaning & the Enlgish Verb" by Geoffrey Leech very highly #ELTchat

teacherphili

11:16 PM

just found out this is the last #ELTchat for while.  Grammar, eh? I'm gonna lurk around.  I know I've got some books on that somewhere..

harrisonmike

11:16 PM

This is the book! Brilliant at explaining some of the idiosyncrasies of language (inc. English) http://t.co/p7q75or9 #guydeutscher #eltchat

natibrandi

11:16 PM

@hartle #eltchat agree!

hartle

11:16 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @hartle You do, it's right there in front of you! #eltchat ohhh, that one! Got it!

harrisonmike

11:17 PM

@theteacherjames and the cases are at least not so important as, for example, in German. #eltchat

hartle

11:18 PM

#eltchat all these things R good, grammars like Sean + direct analysis of elements in corpora to see what is often invisible.. Dare I say it

harrisonmike

11:18 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I would recommend "Meaning & the Enlgish Verb" by Geoffrey Leech very highly #ELTchat

naomishema

11:18 PM

i know its just me but I'm lost when you talk about specific grammar books - we have different ones! #eltchat

hartle

11:19 PM

#eltchat yes, semantic prosody and collocaton that goes beyond just "verb" + "noun" pairings

natibrandi

11:19 PM

@Marisa_C @harrisonmike #eltchat lol... Grammar is hard, just acknowledging sources that have helped me. My mobile is slow sorry!

Shaunwilden

11:19 PM

So we've all mentioned our fave books on the topic but what is it we should know? #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:19 PM

@Marisa_C although with caution about what Leech says about degrees of certainty with the futures! #eltchat cf The English Verb - Lewis

Marisa_C

11:19 PM

I am often distressed by the lack of language awareness in teachers #ELTchat - it's cool to not know grammar esp if a NEST

harrisonmike

11:20 PM

@Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:20 PM

RT @harrisonmike:  I like your 'with caution' statement - it's true that consulting ONE grammar only is not enough  #eltchat

hartle

11:21 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I am often distressed by the lack ... #ELTchat - it's cool...Yes, I agree... Very worrying & common in Celta cands.

uniquelanguages

11:21 PM

#eltchat  English Grammar Today:  Comprehensive and explains everything well.

theteacherjames

11:22 PM

@Marisa_C I don't think it's cool but I also don't think it's the end of the world. As long as you know enough, it's okay. #ELTchat

Marisa_C

11:22 PM

@hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat

natibrandi

11:22 PM

@Shaunwilden #eltchat awareness of the meaning of the structures and ability to notice them, i'd say it's very really important

Marisa_C

11:22 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat > or with the present; or with the present perfect ...etc

nathanghall

11:23 PM

@theteacherjames What's enough? Where is the line? It's not that I disagree with you, though #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:23 PM

@harrisonmike yes, a lot of our grammar was invented by snobs who imposed latin structures onto a germanic language. #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:23 PM

@theteacherjames  #ELTchat Well, this is our subject tonight - what do u think is enough? Just a street ahead from the Ss?

Shaunwilden

11:23 PM

RT @Marisa_C: @hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat

hartle

11:23 PM

RT @Marisa_C: RT @harrisonmike:  it's true that consulting ONE grammar only is not enough  #eltchat Absolutely, critical thinking required

nathanghall

11:23 PM

I have found The Teacher's Grammar of English from CUP to quite good. http://t.co/hR6nF9dm #eltchat

natibrandi

11:23 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat yes, semantic prosody and collocaton that goes beyond just "verb" + "noun" pairings

uniquelanguages

11:24 PM

#eltchat  A little bit of everything and a lot of the important bits.

Shaunwilden

11:24 PM

RT @nathanghall: There is a difference in knowing the grammar to isolate and help students than teaching it to the students #eltchat

hartle

11:24 PM

RT @Marisa_C: @hartle and in DELTA candidates who have been teaching grammarless classes for a no of yrs #ELTchat Shock horror! Even worse

Collaborative

11:24 PM

#CrowdFunding & #Quality Process Model ISO 9001:2000 http://t.co/X8n1FTgy #CrowdParty #vlang #webheads #eltchat #esol #globalkids

nathanghall

11:24 PM

There is a difference in knowing the grammar to isolate and help students than teaching it to the students #eltchat

hartle

11:24 PM

RT @Marisa_C: RT @harrisonmike: @Shaunwilden be careful with the future forms! #eltchat. I warned you abt those verbs !,

theteacherjames

11:25 PM

@nathanghall @Marisa_C It's very hard to say, really depends on the situation. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:26 PM

@hartle agreed but help them clearly and not go into info overload about piece of language #eltchat

natibrandi

11:26 PM

@nathanghall #eltchat hi. You need to know a lot to help ss, though. How are u gonna guide grammar discovery of u r not aware?

theteacherjames

11:26 PM

At least I'm aware of my weakness. I have the collected might of Thornbury, Ur, Harmer, & Swan to help:  http://t.co/ykHMiqQe #eltchat

hartle

11:26 PM

#eltchat teachers need to be able to help stds with the questions they have... Or they need to know where to direct them to find answers

theteacherjames

11:27 PM

@harrisonmike Split infinitives, for example were invented by one man! http://t.co/is6tPTNp #eltchat

nathanghall

11:28 PM

@natibrandi My point exactly. You need to know more than 'enough' to be able to isolate problems and focus your help for the Ss #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:28 PM

@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden I was only talking about the past simple before ;-) #eltchat

hartle

11:28 PM

RT @theteacherjames: At least I'm aware of my weakness. I have the collected might..  http://t.co/b17vz1mk #eltchat Exactly eht I meant :-)

Shaunwilden

11:29 PM

@nathanghall @natibrandi Which, as @Marisa_C  said is something NESTs really dont know coming into the profession #eltchat

hartle

11:29 PM

RT @theteacherjames: @harrisonmike Split infinitives http://t.co/pPXyjs07 #eltchat. Some of my stds need to find infinitives!!!

nathanghall

11:29 PM

I'm no grammar expert by any means, but I'm not dismissing it either. I feel it is important to have a strong foundation. #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:29 PM

@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden but basic formula of futures is simple - will + inf, going to + inf. it's meaning that is fuzzy #eltchat

hartle

11:30 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle agreed but help them clearly and not go into info overload about piece of language #eltchat yes that's the opposite

natibrandi

11:31 PM

@nathanghall #eltchat and how not to overload sa with meta language. I know we neee to know the metalanguage but does it enhance ss' learnin

CELT_Athens

11:31 PM

#ELTchat at Braz-TESOL 2012 – Here is what they said…. http://t.co/cajY8Xgu #ELTchat

Marisa_C

11:31 PM

#ELTchat at Braz-TESOL 2012 – Here is what they said….:                         http://t.co/x27PuQje #eltchat

hartle

11:31 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden... it's meaning that is fuzzy #eltchat U can't separate meaning frm form. They go together

eannegrenoble

11:31 PM

Evening all - (...) @Marisa_C  said is something NESTs really dont know coming into the profession #eltchat >> I am often amazed at how true

harrisonmike

11:31 PM

@Shaunwilden @nathanghall @natibrandi @Marisa_C I only knew what I'd did of English grammar having studied French and German #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:32 PM

Thing I find most difficult is not 'teaching grammar', but having the awareness to identify the language that isn't being produced. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:32 PM

@harrisonmike Why? #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:32 PM

Apologies to breat the #ELTchat with an #ELTchat blog post - have a read later pls - don't disappear

mubeenfk

11:32 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I am often distressed by the lack of language awareness in teachers #ELTchat - it's cool to not know grammar esp if a NEST

nathanghall

11:32 PM

RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own or another language #language #awareness

harrisonmike

11:32 PM

#eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own or another language #language #awareness

nathanghall

11:32 PM

Balance is critical. We don't have to hit the students over the head with it, but grammar isn't evil. It is just knowledge - a tool #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:33 PM

There are several grammars published for teachers these days - no need to use student grammars as a source #ELTchat some mentioned already

nathanghall

11:33 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat what is worrying is tht very little LA required to become teachers, so these teachers can do skills work but that's about it.

hartle

11:33 PM

#eltchat what is worrying is tht very little LA required to become teachers, so these teachers can do skills work but that's about it.

harrisonmike

11:33 PM

@hartle @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden ah but maybe my meaning is different from your understanding as well ;-) #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:34 PM

The problem is that many of them are a bit too abstruse for a beginning teacher - but we should all graduate to those #ELTchat

hartle

11:34 PM

RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat wild suggestion - you should learn a foreign language if you are going to teach your own... Yes, yes, yes!!

eannegrenoble

11:34 PM

@theteacherjames: the awareness to identify the language that isn't being produced. #eltchat >> much easier with monoling class

theteacherjames

11:34 PM

When I started teaching my grammar was very good, I just couldn't explain it at all. I've improved a lot over time. #eltchat

uniquelanguages

11:34 PM

@harrisonmike  #eltchat  I have heard this said before and I am inclined to agree. My poor attempts at learning languages make me sympathise

harrisonmike

11:34 PM

@Shaunwilden to develop your awareness of language in general, learn that they don't work the same way, 2be able to empathise w sts #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:34 PM

RT @theteacherjames: Thing I find most difficult is not 'teaching grammar but.....  identifying the lang that isn't being produced. #eltchat

eannegrenoble

11:35 PM

@theteacherjames  grammar for L1 β‰  grammar for L2      #eltchat

natibrandi

11:35 PM

@Marisa_C @theteacherjames #eltchat you need to know way more cause u need to carefully 'curate' what to bring to class

theteacherjames

11:35 PM

@eannegrenoble I think it's a skill that takes quite a long time to develop, unless you're a grammar demon! #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:35 PM

@Marisa_C Parrott is very accessible. Wish I'd had that before doing the delta. Would have been in a better starting position #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:35 PM

@harrisonmike but couldnt you just google what the differences are ;-) #eltchat

nathanghall

11:36 PM

RT @eannegrenoble: @theteacherjames  grammar for L1 β‰  grammar for L2 #eltchat --> Agreed, but L2 for teachers is really helpful

harrisonmike

11:36 PM

@Shaunwilden google can't do language well enough for that. It doesn't have capacity for shades of meaning #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:36 PM

@tim_crangle evening, so what are your thoughts? #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:36 PM

Also a book which is not exactly a grammar but a good resource for Ts "Teaching Tenses" by R. Aitken esp useful for NNESTs #ELTchat

tim_crangle

11:36 PM

Evening. Sorry I missed the beginning. Have been lurking for last 10 mins to get gist of what has been said. #ELTCHAT

eannegrenoble

11:37 PM

@Shaunwilden ah but maybe my meaning is different from your understanding as well ;-) #eltchat >> Bas Aarts "Fuzzy Grammar"  great overview

hartle

11:37 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: @harrisonmike #eltchat i agree tht learning another lang. Really helps putting teacher in std's shoes, seeing problems etc

theteacherjames

11:37 PM

RT @natibrandi: @theteacherjames #eltchat avoidance! One of the hardest things to identify. Dictogloss is a good technique to know about our ss' grammar

Shaunwilden

11:37 PM

@harrisonmike I was joshing :-) #eltchat

natibrandi

11:37 PM

@theteacherjames #eltchat avoidance! One of the hardest things to identify. Dictogloss is a good technique to know about our ss' grammar

nathanghall

11:37 PM

Sorry, forgot the hashtag again :( #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:37 PM

@Marisa_C That a super book esp for LA assignment on a CELTA :-) #eltchat

hartle

11:38 PM

RT @tim_crangle: Evening. Sorry I missed the beginning. Have been lurking for last 10 mins to get gist of what has been said #ELTCHAT Hi Tim

Shaunwilden

11:38 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat

Marisa_C

11:38 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: @Marisa_C That a super book esp for LA assignment on a CELTA :-) #eltchat > Yes

Marisa_C

11:38 PM

I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat

nathanghall

11:39 PM

Don't rely on the coursebooks to help you learn the grammar. Many have mistakes/over generalize. Another reason to know the grammar #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:39 PM

@Shaunwilden =) #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:40 PM

RT @eannegrenoble: RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat > not really no

theteacherjames

11:40 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat

tim_crangle

11:40 PM

Have ss with grammar MCQs in exams - need 2 study specific points RT @Shaunwilden: @tim_crangle evening, so what are your thoughts? #ELTCHAT

natibrandi

11:40 PM

@hartle @shaunwilden @harrisonmike #eltchat agree! We need to know about ss' interlanguage, typical mistakes, learner corpora!

eannegrenoble

11:40 PM

RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat

theteacherjames

11:40 PM

Re: (justified) criticism of NEST - You have to bear in mind I studied no grammar at school. Only began once I was a teacher. #eltchat

hartle

11:40 PM

#eltchat another problem I have is stds' belief that grammar and accuracy are the be all and end all of language. Some teachers believe it 2

motherchina

11:41 PM

RT @Marisa_C: I find many NESTs morphologically ignorant bu functionally highly aware (even intuitively) and NNEST's the reverse - #ELTchat

Marisa_C

11:41 PM

RT @DianadeBelflor: @harrisonmike Of course! Knowing the difficulties the student may faces and strategies of learning is essential #eltchat

DianadeBelflor

11:41 PM

@harrisonmike Of course! Knowing the difficulties the student may faces and strategies of learning is essential #eltchat

eannegrenoble

11:42 PM

RT @hartle: #eltchat I also think teachers need more than grammar books. You need a "feel" for how things work too, eithout being a demon, of course

nathanghall

11:42 PM

Personal PD is critical. Spend time on your own to improve yourself. You owe it to them and yourself to be the best you can be. #eltchat

eannegrenoble

11:42 PM

@nathanghall: (...) Another reason to know the grammar >> ? THE grammar >many possible ways of describing how language works  #eltchat

hartle

11:42 PM

#eltchat I also think teachers need more than grammar books. You need a "feel" for how things work too, eithout being a demon, of course

motherchina

11:42 PM

RT @eannegrenoble: RT @Marisa_C: IIntuitively aware is not a great starting point to explain something- #ELTchat

tim_crangle

11:42 PM

@hartle Hi! #ELTCHAT

Shaunwilden

11:43 PM

@hartle Yes the feel is important, esp when trying to convince that sth really doesnt follow the rules they learned #eltchat

Wiktor_K

11:43 PM

For me, the hardest thing has always been emphasising the difference between grammar in "theory" and accepted, but "wrong" usage #ELTchat

harrisonmike

11:43 PM

@teacherdude I wonder how well I'd fare with a new language now. Or perhaps relearning one. #eltchat

nathanghall

11:44 PM

@eannegrenoble Completely agree. Sociolinguistics, genre, etc. are  important. But many will focus on those and bypass grammar #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:45 PM

1/2 #eltchat underlying everything, you also need to realise that language is merely meaning clothed in sounds. It's what makes it...

Marisa_C

11:45 PM

@Shaunwilden  #eltchat Feel is very important - hence a teacher without it not really suited to teaching advanced levels - right?

theteacherjames

11:46 PM

CUP are giving a way a free 5 hour Grammar awareness course on their teacher network: http://t.co/oIInF6pe  #eltchat @CamEngTeacher

natibrandi

11:46 PM

@hartle #eltchat sure! N ability to notice n understand it in real contexts, most grammar books dont really bring that

Shaunwilden

11:46 PM

@Marisa_C I hesitate to agree as this is often an unfairly touted excuse for not allowing NNESTS to teach advanced  #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:46 PM

@nathanghall  #eltchat you named most areas that make sense of grammar - adding discourse, phonology etc - are Ts willing to study tho?

hartle

11:46 PM

#eltchat teachers can "play" with grammar or parts of speech at least 2 in creative eays such as the Language Garden http://t.co/dJZtwRWU

harrisonmike

11:46 PM

2/2 #eltchat ... so interesting and complicated!

Shaunwilden

11:47 PM

@Marisa_C I can I have been in many a situation where i feel it was merely an excuse #eltchat

hartle

11:47 PM

RT @Marisa_C: @Shaunwilden  #eltchat Feel is very important - hence a teacher without it not really suited to teaching adva... Yes, agreed

Marisa_C

11:47 PM

@Shaunwilden  #eltchat Knowledge and feel is objective - u cannot be politically correct abt it and I declare this as a NNEST

nathanghall

11:48 PM

@Marisa_C I guess it depends on how much value each person puts in it. Can't speak for all teachers. #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:48 PM

@Shaunwilden  #eltchat Agree this can happen

hartle

11:48 PM

RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat language is merely meaning clothed in sounds... Like this: & teachers can help stds learn which clothes to choose

theteacherjames

11:49 PM

Believe it or not, I reviewed a grammar book once. Heartily recommended for a different approach: http://t.co/UC3kIF7x  #eltchat

harrisonmike

11:49 PM

@hartle Language Walk In Wardrobe? ;-) #eltchat

hartle

11:50 PM

#eltchat thnx fir this chat everyone. Have to go now. Have a gr8 summer :-) When's next chat???

nathanghall

11:50 PM

@theteacherjames Link isn't working for me. #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:50 PM

Who said?  "I read grammar books in bed - I have a masters in linguistics - but normal ppl get their kicks some other way" #ELTchat

harrisonmike

11:51 PM

@theteacherjames why wouldn't we believe it? ;-) #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:51 PM

@tim_crangle @nathanghall Second try: http://t.co/giTJeGE9 #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:51 PM

@nathanghall I could have said that but I didn't actually  #eltchat

hartle

11:51 PM

RT @harrisonmike: @hartle Language Walk In Wardrobe? ;-) #eltchat or the Lion, the language and the wardrobe...

tim_crangle

11:51 PM

Me neither RT @nathanghall: @theteacherjames Link isnt working for me. #ELTCHAT

nathanghall

11:51 PM

@Marisa_C Ugh. Not me. Grammar books are boring for the most part. #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:52 PM

RT @nathanghall: @Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:52 PM

@harrisonmike Did you not read my other tweets? ;-) The intro to my review explains all! #eltchat

nathanghall

11:52 PM

@Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat

nathanghall

11:53 PM

I have a copy of this on my desk. Nice little reference books for when teachers come asking questions: http://t.co/bJp9zZ50 #eltchat

Shaunwilden

11:53 PM

RT @Marisa_C:  It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat

tim_crangle

11:53 PM

@theteacherjames works now tnx #ELTCHAT

theteacherjames

11:54 PM

RT @nathanghall: @Marisa_C It isn't that grammar is necessarily boring, but the writers of these books sure make it feel like it. #eltchat

David__Boughton

11:54 PM

@nathanghall I find the is the best grammar resource I have.  #ELTChat

harrisonmike

11:54 PM

@theteacherjames I joined late #eltchat got it now

natibrandi

11:54 PM

@Marisa_C #eltchat read real ones n revisit them to find good chuncks in context, then analyse mean, form, etc. A bit freakish but good

eannegrenoble

11:54 PM

I'm not sure there's much point in "teaching a grammar point" but seems diff to teach language without being INTERESTED in gramr ? #eltchat

tim_crangle

11:55 PM

This may have been said before tonight but doesn't grammar teacher shld know depend on student's L1? #ELTCHAT

theteacherjames

11:55 PM

RT @Shaunwilden: Coming up on 5 minutes left, time to start clamouring to be the first to volunteer for the summary #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:55 PM

@harrisonmike :-) #eltchat

Marisa_C

11:55 PM

Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time

Shaunwilden

11:55 PM

Coming up on 5 minutes left, time to start clamouring to be the first to volunteer for the summary #eltchat

nathanghall

11:56 PM

@tim_crangle There is that, but a strong foundation in your own grammar will help you isolate the problems as well. #eltchat

theteacherjames

11:56 PM

RT @Marisa_C: Watch these 2 videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/NCBoB2oa & http://t.co/9zxW9GcP #ELTchat when u have time> I will!

Marisa_C

11:56 PM

@tim_crangle  #ELTCHAT No it hasn't been mentioned - but some knowledge of L1 systems helps - read "Learner English" by M Swan ed

harrisonmike

11:56 PM

@eannegrenoble yuk 2me 'teaching a language point' isn't teaching language. Wud only ever do that w/ v analytical learners if ever! #eltchat

natibrandi

11:56 PM

RT @Marisa_C: Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time

harrisonmike

11:57 PM

RT @Marisa_C: @tim_crangle  #ELTCHAT No it hasn't been mentioned - but some knowledge of L1 systems helps - read "Learner English" by M Swan ed

theteacherjames

11:58 PM

Enjoy the final words of French grammarian Dominique Bouhours:  I am about to – or I am going to – die. Either is correct.β€ #eltchat

David__Boughton

11:59 PM

RT @Marisa_C: Watch these two videos by @skrahsen http://t.co/ajc8uh7u and http://t.co/iENvLG1H #ELTchat when u have time

harrisonmike

11:59 PM

Watch this too from @thornburyscott 7 ways of looking at grammar #eltchat it's an hr long tho, so when you have time! http://t.co/egJBOFlB

Marisa_C

11:59 PM

Shouldn't Ts be analytical learners by definition and have excellent knowledge of their subject matter? Language? and its systems? #ELTchat

eannegrenoble

11:59 PM

@harrisonmike   yeah - I hope that's what i said  meant - "there's no point in teaching a point of grammar" #eltchat

natibrandi

11:59 PM

#eltchat thanks. A pleasure to join u but now im 5 mins late to class. Bye evereyone!

 

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