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What is, or should be, the role of drilling in the classroom

Page history last edited by Marisa Constantinides 11 years, 9 months ago

This is the transcript of #eltchat on  What is, or should be, the role of drilling in the classroom?

 

username

time

status

Shaunwilden

8:01 AM

It's 12 BST so I reckon it's #eltchat time - What is, or should be, the role of drilling in the classroom?

Shaunwilden

8:02 AM

have to say I am big drilling fan :-) #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:02 AM

Hello #eltchat

esolcourses

8:02 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: It's 12 BST so I reckon it's #eltchat time - What is, or should be, the role of drilling in the classroom?

Nada__J

8:03 AM

RT @AnthonyGaughan: WEBINAR: What Makes A Lesson GREAT? tomorrow 13-14hrs CET: RT and come along! http://t.co/X8bNRpex #BritishCouncil #TeachingEnglish #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:03 AM

@theteacherjames Haha  :-) #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:03 AM

Hello everyone. looking forward to this chat on drilling #eltchat

BobK99

8:03 AM

Thinks: the question is not 'Do you or don't you drill?' #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:03 AM

I think I used drilling on my CELTA but rarely used it since - not sure I know why #eltchat

teflerinha

8:03 AM

RT @teflerinha: @worldteacher I can relate to that..why don't you use it as much as you 'should'? #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:03 AM

@Shaunwilden Is that why you're wearing the helmet in your profile pic? #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:03 AM

#eltchat  Drilling is vital but only when appropriate.

worldteacher

8:03 AM

To kick off, intellectually I think drilling is a good idea, but in practice I son't use it nearly enough!! #eltchat

rliberni

8:04 AM

@Shaunwilden  me too! #eltchat

worldteacher

8:04 AM

@teflerinha Not sure, really! I tend to drill more with individual sts or small groups rather than choral drilling in a big class #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:04 AM

Talking about drilling NOW on #eltchat - do you or don't you?  That is the question.

esolcourses

8:04 AM

@Shaunwilden I can take it or leave it - think drilling with a purpose can be useful, as long as it's relevant and done in context #ELTChat

rliberni

8:04 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: It's 12 BST so I reckon it's #eltchat time - What is, or should be, the role of drilling in the classroom?

Shaunwilden

8:04 AM

@bcnpaul1 I think that is the case for a lot of teachers #eltchat

teflerinha

8:04 AM

#eltchat In recent observations of ESOL teachers over three years NEVER saw drilling...why?

theteacherjames

8:04 AM

RT @jobethsteel: #eltchat  Drilling is vital but only when appropriate.

JoHart

8:04 AM

#ELTchat - loathe & detest but recognise it has a place (from own youth = times tables & vocab)

antoniaclare

8:05 AM

@jobethsteel I think drilling can really help with confidence, particularly at low levels #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:05 AM

@Shaunwilden Yes - particularly the 'not sure why' bit as drilling is a great 'no pressure' moment in class #eltchat

teflerinha

8:05 AM

@worldteacher For me, I worry ss will hate it- but I KNOW as a learner I love it. Go figure. #eltchat

rliberni

8:05 AM

What do you use drilling for? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:05 AM

RT @jobethsteel: #eltchat So when is drilling appropriate?

jobethsteel

8:05 AM

#eltchat So when is drilling appropriate?

antoniaclare

8:06 AM

@bcnpaul1 Yes, if done well, drilling can be fun and help with good group feeling.  However, if done badly, has the opposite effect #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:06 AM

RT @eltnotebook: Need to define drilling. Just repetition work or substitutions drills, transformation drills - the whole AL baggage? #eltchat

rliberni

8:06 AM

RT @worldteacher: #eltchat Find drilling essential for pron practice with my Vietnamese sts Yes, I would use it here too

JoHart

8:06 AM

@teflerinha #ELTchat - maybe not something most would do in observed class as not a respected strategy

Shaunwilden

8:06 AM

@rliberni @bcnpaul1 Oh yes much fun :-) #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:06 AM

Need to define drilling. Just repetition work or substitutions drills, transformation drills - the whole AL baggage? #eltchat

rliberni

8:06 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 Yes and if done properly a chance to give sts confidence #eltchat agree & can be fun too

teflerinha

8:06 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @jobethsteel I think drilling can really help with confidence, particularly at low levels #eltchat

worldteacher

8:06 AM

#eltchat Find drilling essential for pron practice with my Vietnamese sts

Shaunwilden

8:06 AM

@bcnpaul1 Yes and if done properly a chance to give sts confidence #eltchat

rliberni

8:06 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Talking about drilling NOW on #eltchat - do you or don't you?  That is the question.

bcnpaul1

8:07 AM

@antoniaclare Yes - usually done badly if teacher is just going thru the motions - need to embrace it fully for it to work well #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:07 AM

@JoHart Interesting - "not a respected strategy"? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:07 AM

RT @eltnotebook: Need to define drilling. Just repetition work or substitutions drills, transformation drills - the whole AL baggage? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:07 AM

@JoHart Would be respected by me (!) The students often really needed it.. #eltchat

rliberni

8:07 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: I've always been a great fan of drilling. For me it's like practicing on the piano, or training for a sport - not actually playing #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:07 AM

RT @rliberni: RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 Yes and if done properly a chance to give sts confidence #eltchat agree & can be fun too

OUPELTGlobal

8:07 AM

I've always been a great fan of drilling. For me it's like practicing on the piano, or training for a sport - not actually playing #eltchat

rliberni

8:07 AM

RT @eltnotebook: Need to define drilling. Just repetition work or substitutions drills, transformation drills - the whole AL baggage? #eltchat

worldteacher

8:07 AM

@teflerinha Same for me! I always expect sts to moan or not to be engaged, but that's rarely the case! #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:07 AM

RT @eltnotebook: define drilling. Just repetition work or substitutions drills, transformation drills - the whole AL baggage? #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:08 AM

How can we expect anyone to learn a language without a lot of repetition? #eltchat

rliberni

8:08 AM

I most recently used it when tching French to primary kids & it worked really well I use choral then a beanbag for individ #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:08 AM

Anyone used mumble drills to focus on intonation? - it's a good one #eltchat

teflerinha

8:08 AM

#eltchat For me it's mostly about pronunciation and automatisation of chunks- rather than grammar patterns

antoniaclare

8:08 AM

Drilling can be a great way to help students to notice features of pron (stress timing, lost sounds etc) #eltchat

worldteacher

8:08 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: great fan of drilling. For me it's like practicing on the piano, or training for a sport  #eltchat >Great analogy!!

BobK99

8:08 AM

RT @JoHart: #ELTchat - ... it has a place (from own youth ...) >Yes. Favourite biblical quote 'Unless you become even as little children.../

Shaunwilden

8:08 AM

@JoHart Why is do you say not respected? I wish  I saw it more when I was observing, well more concretely done anyway #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:09 AM

@ELTchat Why not in observed classes? I'd expect it at lower levels...

teflerinha

8:09 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: It should be challenging to keep SS' interest and they should feel they need it #eltchat

JoHart

8:09 AM

@teflerinha #ELTchat things like drilling for times tables, vocab seem to be treated -vely in many teaching contexts NB I am lit/num not ELT

Shaunwilden

8:09 AM

@bcnpaul1 Aha I see :-) #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:09 AM

It should be challenging to keep SS' interest and they should feel they need it #eltchat

rliberni

8:09 AM

Isn't drilling rather like those I went to the market & bought .... games? so can be engaging #eltchat

worldteacher

8:09 AM

RT @theteacherjames: How can we expect anyone to learn a language without a lot of repetition? #eltchat >Very true!!

BobK99

8:09 AM

...Same applies to learning languages. Got to keep the intellect out of it at times. Muscle memory. #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:09 AM

@Shaunwilden Mmmmphmmmmphmmm :) Got it now? #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:09 AM

RT @theteacherjames: How can we expect anyone to learn a language without a lot of repetition? #eltchat

worldteacher

8:09 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: Anyone used mumble drills to focus on intonation? - it's a good one #eltchat > New to me - please explain!

jobethsteel

8:09 AM

#eltchat  Drilling good for noticing nuance.

teflerinha

8:09 AM

RT @theteacherjames: How can we expect anyone to learn a language without a lot of repetition? #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:09 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: Yes - usually done badly if teacher is just going thru the motions - need to embrace it fully for it to work well #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:09 AM

@bcnpaul1 Sorry didnt hear that what did you say? #eltchat  ;-)

teflerinha

8:10 AM

@JoHart Yes, you're right. My kids don't drill times tables and then teacher is surprised they can't remember them all #eltchat

rliberni

8:10 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Drilling can be a great way to help students to notice features of pron (stress timing, lost sounds etc) #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:10 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Yes challenging and the teacher needs to show they believe in it not do it half halfheartedly #eltchat

rliberni

8:10 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: @JoHart Interesting - "not a respected strategy"? #eltchat can you say more?

esolcourses

8:10 AM

RT @rliberni: Isn't drilling rather like those I went to the market & bought .... games? so can be engaging #eltchat

worldteacher

8:11 AM

#eltchat Yes, drilling certainly worked for me - amazing what I remember from my school days!

jobethsteel

8:11 AM

RT @BobK99: ...Same applies to learning languages. Got to keep the intellect out of it at times. Muscle memory. #eltchat

teflerinha

8:11 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Drilling can be a great way to help students 2 notice features of pron (stress timing, lost sounds etc) #eltchat Only way?

antoniaclare

8:11 AM

I think variety is key to keeping sts engaged (different ways of drilling, sometimes game, substitution, mumble, choral etc.) #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:11 AM

@worldteacher T reads short text by mumbling it. sts repeat. no focus on 'words' just intonation. follow-up gd for presentations #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:11 AM

@rliberni I was surprised at "not being respected". Getting the idea of this from the conversation  #eltchat

rliberni

8:11 AM

@antoniaclare  and also get mouths around diff sounds anonymously #eltchat

teflerinha

8:11 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal Yes challenging and the teacher needs to show they believe in it not do it half halfheartedly #eltchat

KariDalane

8:12 AM

Just the word drilling is ugly #eltchat.  Hi all!

antoniaclare

8:12 AM

@teflerinha No, not the only way. Think we can do a lot by getting sts to listen (+repeat silently, subvocalise) rather than repeat #eltchat

teflerinha

8:12 AM

@OUPELTGlobal From the fact I never saw ts doing it, I think it must have a bad rep- maybe esp in ESOL quarters? #eltchat

worldteacher

8:12 AM

@bcnpaul1 Thanks - sounds interesting - need to look into it more after #eltchat

JoHart

8:12 AM

@rliberni @OUPELTGlobal #ELTchat coming from nonELT teacher training "drill" is regarded as "no no" - I still do hen have f2f stdnts

Shaunwilden

8:12 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Does drilling still have a bad rep? #eltchat - still?

bcnpaul1

8:12 AM

@teflerinha @JoHart I remember having to be drilled in times-table!! #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:12 AM

Does drilling still have a bad rep? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:13 AM

RT @teflerinha: @antoniaclare Ah ok, but I would include silent repetition and subvocalising as drilling #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:13 AM

@Shaunwilden @OUPELTGlobal bad rep? No - thought of as not cutting edge? Yes. In the world of tech, many see it as no use I guess #eltchat

rliberni

8:13 AM

@teflerinha  I've used for grammar (change tenses ) , word order (w/ word prompts), questions forms (answer prompts) lots of stuff #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:13 AM

#eltchat Have you seen David Crystal get sts to say chunk in head, in his voice, in their head, then out loud?

Shaunwilden

8:13 AM

So far it's been excused of being ugly, lacking respect and bad  - no wonder people don't do it #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:13 AM

@bcnpaul1 Times table is not a good memory for me. Was it really necessary? helpful?  #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:13 AM

@AnthonyGaughan has some interesting things to say about this in his talk "7 deadly sins of ELT" eg Isn't Find Someone Who a drill? #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:14 AM

@KariDalane Yes, sounds very mechanical, doesn't it?  Jazz Chant sounds better? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:14 AM

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Ts have to actually listen to Ss while drilling, diagnose problems and provide corrective feedback - not just for the sake of it.

rliberni

8:14 AM

RT @BobK99: ...Same applies to learning languages. Got to keep the intellect out of it at times. Muscle memory. #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:14 AM

@rliberni @OUPELTGlobal @JoHart Wouldn't you say that drilling is perhaps seen by some as dated rather than not respected? #eltchat

JoHart

8:14 AM

@teflerinha #ELTchat Am regularly grateful for all the hateful tables drill as means I have answers at will - & now good at maths

ElkySmith

8:14 AM

#eltchat Ts have to actually listen to Ss while drilling, diagnose problems and provide corrective feedback - not just for the sake of it.

esolcourses

8:14 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: @bcnpaul1 Times table is not a good memory for me. Was it really necessary? helpful?  #eltchat ] not sure either, tbh

OUPELTGlobal

8:15 AM

Is drilling still heavily associated with behaviourism and so looked down on as not communicative? #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:15 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal  Shame isn't it  - throwing the baby out with the bathwater - teaching should be about what works best #eltchat

worldteacher

8:15 AM

RT @JoHart: @teflerinha #ELTchat Am regularly grateful for all the hateful tables drill as means I have answers at will >Me too!!

bcnpaul1

8:15 AM

@esolcourses @OUPELTGlobal Agree not useful, just that memory popped into my head quite vividly!! :) #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:15 AM

@bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal  Shame isn't it  - throwing the baby out with the bathwater - teaching should be about what works best #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:16 AM

@Shaunwilden @OUPELTGlobal yes. revisiting last week a little... if it works, use it (even if it's old)  #eltchat

feedtheteacher

8:16 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Is drilling still heavily associated with behaviourism and so looked down on as not communicative? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:16 AM

@antoniaclare @KariDalane Can't say I like the phrase Jazz chants  - and I would see them as a category of drilling anyway :-) #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:16 AM

Great early posting here by @ThornburyScott http://t.co/Q5qoURym See comments about re-branding drilling  #eltchat

BobK99

8:16 AM

RT @jobethsteel: #eltchat...David Crystal get sts to say chunk in head, in his voice, in their head, then out loud? > Sounds good. Where?

KariDalane

8:16 AM

@antoniaclare Oh I like that!  Today, class, we will be jazz chanting.  Get those jazz hands ready too.  #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:17 AM

@OUPELTGlobal @feedtheteacher Definitely part of it, but it's still an important part of CELTA courses isn't it? #eltchat

esolcourses

8:17 AM

@bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal ha ha! still remember Latin verb tables off by heart, but that's it, as they were taught out of context #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:17 AM

@bcnpaul1 I think it is that association of 'old' - we're in eclectic times so surely nothing is actually 'old' #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:17 AM

@antoniaclare @KariDalane Agree that drilling is not a pleasant term, but jazz chants terrifies me! #eltchat

teflerinha

8:17 AM

RT @teflerinha: @OUPELTGlobal That's part of it (being noncommunicative), but  can be step towards being communicative, can't it? #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:17 AM

Some ideas for vaiation on drills, by Philip Kerr http://t.co/0QSoesmq #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:17 AM

@Shaunwilden @bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal A shame indeed but it happens a lot. Ts get excited about the new ideas and forget the old #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:18 AM

@antoniaclare @KariDalane Repeating? :-) #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:18 AM

@esolcourses maybe that's it - drilling (like pron focus) often feels out of context with the lesson to a lot of t's #eltchat

KariDalane

8:18 AM

@Shaunwilden @antoniaclare I guess the idea is that the word drilling is loaded.  Need a new term bc repetition can help with pron. #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:18 AM

@theteacherjames @KariDalane lol, let's come up with another word for it then.... #eltchat

rliberni

8:18 AM

@Shaunwilden  perhaps it just seems 'old-fashioned' but is effective & enjoyable if done well #eltchat

worldteacher

8:18 AM

@ElkySmith @Shaunwilden This is exactly what we were saying during our 'fads' #eltchat last week!

theteacherjames

8:18 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Great early posting here by @ThornburyScott http://t.co/Q5qoURym See comments about re-branding drilling  #eltchat

rliberni

8:19 AM

@ElkySmith  true but sometimes it can be done just as a choral pron ex don't see any harm in that #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:19 AM

@harmerj on 'to drill or not to drill' http://t.co/tYYofQHC #eltchat

esolcourses

8:19 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @esolcourses maybe that's it - drilling (like pron focus) often feels out of context with the lesson to a lot of t's #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:19 AM

@KariDalane @antoniaclare I see you're point just never really thought of it as bad before :-) #eltchat

BobK99

8:19 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: @bcnpaul1 Times table is not a good memory for me. Was it really necessary? helpful?  #eltchat > For me, yes and yes ;-)

ElkySmith

8:19 AM

@worldteacher @Shaunwilden #eltchat Exactly what I was thinking :-) It's the 'fads' that take class time away from tried-and-true methods

rliberni

8:20 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal  Shame isn't it  - throwing the baby out with the bathwater - teaching should be about what works best #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:20 AM

There's got to be a place for repetition in the lang learning class but when it's mindless, it's pointless. We can be more creative #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:20 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @antoniaclare favouriting all these links! for later reading :) #eltchat Yes, I did my homework - they make great reading ;)

teflerinha

8:20 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @antoniaclare favouriting all these links! for later reading :) #eltchat me too- thanks.

rliberni

8:20 AM

@JoHart  I agree I know my times tables & it makes calculating much easier (not enough fingers & toes!!) #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:20 AM

Can't drilling be seen as a step towards fluency? Is that a strange idea?  #eltchat

esolcourses

8:20 AM

@bcnpaul1 yes - I think you're right. Although of course, drilling doesn't necessarily need to be done out of context #eltchat

teflerinha

8:20 AM

@BrunoELT @oupeltglobal Maybe it's my learning style, bt think it's important 2 try &say as well as listen(even if silent/subvocal) #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:20 AM

@antoniaclare favouriting all these links! for later reading :) #eltchat

worldteacher

8:20 AM

RT @ElkySmith: @Shaunwilden #eltchat Exactly what I was thinking :-) ... 'fads' take class time away from tried-and-true methods >Agreed!

antoniaclare

8:20 AM

@theteacherjames @KariDalane  Repeating?  Yes, that's what we say to sts, isn't it?  #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:21 AM

@rliberni #eltchat You're right - no harm at all. But T still needs to be listening, not just going through the motions.

KariDalane

8:21 AM

@theteacherjames Agree.  I think drilling is too closely associated with mindlessness. #eltchat

rliberni

8:21 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Great early posting here by @ThornburyScott http://t.co/Q5qoURym See comments about re-branding drilling  #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:21 AM

@theteacherjames  Anything that is mindless in the classroom, will be pretty useless, no? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:21 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Yes i can and no :-) Helps with pron, chunking, memorization etc etc #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:21 AM

RT @theteacherjames: There's got to be a place for repetition in the lang learning class but when it's mindless, it's pointless. We can be more creative #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:21 AM

RT @ElkySmith: @OUPELTGlobal @feedtheteacher def part of it, but istill important part of CELTA courses isn't it? #eltchat Annoyingly yes.

theteacherjames

8:21 AM

@antoniaclare @KariDalane Yes, "repeat after me..." etc #eltchat

rliberni

8:21 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Is drilling still heavily associated with behaviourism and so looked down on as not communicative? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:21 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Can't drilling be seen as a step towards fluency? Is that a strange idea?  #eltchat No, think it can be- automaticity.

JoHart

8:21 AM

@BobK99 @OUPELTGlobal @bcnpaul1 #ELTchat Yes! Was useful - hated at the time.Lesson to us. Students dislikedoes not always mean bad strategy

BobK99

8:22 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 I think it is that association of 'old' -... surely nothing is actually 'old' #eltchat > RETRO, more like. ;-)

theteacherjames

8:22 AM

@antoniaclare Of course, but drilling lends itself to mindless repetition in particular, I think. #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:22 AM

RT @KariDalane: @theteacherjames Agree.  I think drilling is too closely associated with mindlessness. #eltchat

teflerinha

8:22 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: Dont we drill in real life i.e. the mental rehearsal before speaking in a foreign lang esp if not a fluent speaker? #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:22 AM

@teflerinha @OUPELTGlobal Automaticity - yes, very important #eltchat

teflerinha

8:22 AM

#eltchat Think good to have some drilling on CELTA as something u need to be taught to do well- hard to just pick up (e.g. using fingers)

worldteacher

8:22 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Can't drilling be seen as a step towards fluency? Is that a strange idea? #eltchat >I don't think so - esp drilling chunks

Shaunwilden

8:22 AM

Dont we drill in real life i.e. the mental rehearsal before speaking in a foreign lang esp if not a fluent speaker? #eltchat

KariDalane

8:22 AM

@theteacherjames @antoniaclare Drilling 2.0? #eltchat

rliberni

8:22 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Some ideas for vaiation on drills, by Philip Kerr http://t.co/0QSoesmq #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:23 AM

@MrChrisJWilson I think it's pretty pointless if the student is just going through the motions. #eltchat

teflerinha

8:23 AM

#eltchat Backchaining v useful technique to teach CELTAees as well. Really does help ss with tricky utterances.

bcnpaul1

8:23 AM

@eltnotebook no - shouldn't be out of context, but a useful pause in the lesson sometimes can be seen that way! #eltchat

esolcourses

8:23 AM

@rliberni @JoHart times tables make it easy to calculate simple sums, but it doesn't necessarily make you any good at maths, IME #eltChat

rliberni

8:23 AM

@esolcourses  me too & French & German but this was all one did w/them I think memorise  :-( #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:23 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: Dont we drill in real life i.e. the mental rehearsal before speaking in a foreign lang? #eltchat Yes, I definitely do.

OUPELTGlobal

8:24 AM

RT @teflerinha: #eltchat Backchaining v useful technique to teach CELTAees as well. Really does help ss with tricky utterances.#eltchat

ElkySmith

8:24 AM

@theteacherjames @MrChrisJWilson And T too. Ts need to be selective about what they drill. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:24 AM

@BobK99 @bcnpaul1 :-)  I guess retro makes it sound more trendy, I just dont see why we need to say old or new  #eltchat

rliberni

8:24 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @harmerj on 'to drill or not to drill' http://t.co/tYYofQHC #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:24 AM

@theteacherjames Obviously that will depend how it's done.  Can be great way to get sts attention and heightened focus. #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:24 AM

RT @MrChrisJWilson: not sure I'd go as far as pointless even if it is just repeating a phrase. But definitely shld be more creative #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:24 AM

@BobK99 @Shaunwilden yes - like the idea of Retro rather than old! #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:24 AM

#eltchat I repeat words in my head when I discover a new one and frequently ask the person to repeat it to make sure I'm saying it right.

rliberni

8:24 AM

RT @ElkySmith: @worldteacher @Shaunwilden #eltchat Exactly what I was thinking :-) It's the 'fads' that take class time away from tried-and-true methods

antoniaclare

8:25 AM

So, any ideas for creative ways to use drills? #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:25 AM

Drills can be seen as a game, can be challenging to students and seen as useful.   #eltchat

rliberni

8:25 AM

@worldteacher @ElkySmith  I think it needs to be integrated into your teaching style and become part of  what you & the class do #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:25 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @harmerj on 'to drill or not to drill' http://t.co/tYYofQHC #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:25 AM

RT @feedtheteacher: Overdo it & u end up with the1st def of drilling: To make a hole in (a hard material) with a drill. We don't want holes in language #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:25 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Backchaining is a good technique :-) #eltchat

esolcourses

8:25 AM

@eltnotebook @bcnpaul1 agree drills shouldn't be done out of context - used to be so, which may have contributed to bad reputation #ELTChat

teflerinha

8:25 AM

#eltchat Always remembered 'drill language not students' from my CTEFLA :)

feedtheteacher

8:25 AM

Overdo it & u end up with the1st def of drilling: To make a hole in (a hard material) with a drill. We don't want holes in language #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:25 AM

RT @ElkySmith: @theteacherjames @MrChrisJWilson And T too. Ts need to be selective about what they drill. #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:25 AM

@KariDalane I guess that's what we're working on here! #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:26 AM

@antoniaclare I wrote about drilling a while ago, with a couple of ideas near the end. I love Italian accents! http://t.co/THCbzWbt #eltchat

teflerinha

8:26 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal Backchaining is a good technique :-) #eltchat yes, and using fingers to show links etc.

antoniaclare

8:26 AM

RT @esolcourses: drills shouldn't be done out of context - used to be so, which may have contributed to bad reputation #ELTChat

bcnpaul1

8:26 AM

@Shaunwilden @BobK99 No distinction needed but there so often that hang up. Like an old faithful worksheet or activity #eltchat

rliberni

8:26 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Can't drilling be seen as a step towards fluency? Is that a strange idea?  #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:26 AM

RT @antoniaclare: So, any ideas for creative ways to use drills? #eltchat

rliberni

8:26 AM

@esolcourses  true but isn't this the point?  Just to calculate? #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:26 AM

@esolcourses @eltnotebook @bcnpaul1 #eltchat Do Jazzchants have sth to answer for here? I'm not a fan personally.

JoHart

8:27 AM

@esolcourses @rliberni One of the basic building blocks for quicker calcs, reduced frustration, solving "life problems" - numeracy #ELTchat

YeldaEryilmaz

8:27 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Drills can be seen as a game, can be challenging to students and seen as useful.   #eltchat

ElkySmith

8:27 AM

@rliberni @worldteacher #eltchat Agree - like the earlier comment, the T's heart has to be in it.

antoniaclare

8:27 AM

@ChrisOzog Thanks - will read later #eltchat

rliberni

8:27 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @OUPELTGlobal Yes i can and no :-) Helps with pron, chunking, memorization etc etc #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:27 AM

@ElkySmith Depends on the chant really. Chants can make language memorable and automatic.  #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:28 AM

@rliberni @KariDalane Agree, that's why they have to be used carefully in a considered way, even more than other techniques. #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:28 AM

@antoniaclare Human computer is a good one too, let's students hear the difference and then try it for themselves #eltchat

teflerinha

8:28 AM

RT @antoniaclare: How about 'human computer'?  St says something, and T repeats (correcting) - so a reverse drill, in a way. #eltchat Nice.

esolcourses

8:28 AM

@rliberni same here #eltchat

teflerinha

8:28 AM

RT @ChrisOzog: Silent (mumble) drilling and changing emotions can also be engaging, useful and good practice #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:28 AM

this is a nice vid on drilling for stress timing http://t.co/cU7Y9ml0 #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:28 AM

How about 'human computer'?  St says something, and T repeats (correcting) - so a reverse drill, in a way. #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:28 AM

#ELTchat my sense is that my Ss love it when i do some drilling..nice change of pace and chance to build confidence.

rliberni

8:28 AM

@KariDalane @theteacherjames  that's the fault of the teacher not the technique tho #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:28 AM

Silent (mumble) drilling and changing emotions can also be engaging, useful and good practice #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:28 AM

There's a game I love with YL. You ask them what the object is, say "What?" so they repeat it again. etc. great fun #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:29 AM

@jobethsteel after meaning and form are clear, then work on pronunciation #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:29 AM

RT @feedtheteacher: @OUPELTGlobal @ElkySmith Raps can provide a fun way to drill,#eltchat

esolcourses

8:29 AM

@JoHart @rliberni agree - meant if you just teach them by rote without showing learners what you can do with them (i.e. context) #eltchat

iatefl

8:29 AM

@jobethsteel after meaning and form are clear, then work on pronunciation #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:29 AM

only word you can say is banana to express idea about a given topic #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:29 AM

can't silent drilling also be useful to get students to focus on facial shapes for pronunciation details? (tongue position, lips,) #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:29 AM

@michaelegriffin I really like the idea of drilling building confidence - giving ss a feeling of achievement #eltchat

JoHart

8:29 AM

@esolcourses #ELTchat - was doing my usual imprecision of blurring maths/numeracy becaue numeracy underpins maths sorry for lack of clarity

rliberni

8:29 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @BobK99 @Shaunwilden yes - like the idea of Retro rather than old! #eltchat

BobK99

8:29 AM

RT @KariDalane: @Shaunwilden @antoniaclare ....the word drilling is loaded. .. #eltchat >Yes, lots of intrusive/destructive collocd -boring!

feedtheteacher

8:29 AM

@OUPELTGlobal @ElkySmith Raps can provide a fun way to drill,#eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:29 AM

@ChrisOzog Hello! I was just about to dig up ur post for the eltchat.... good timing.

rliberni

8:29 AM

RT @teflerinha: #eltchat Backchaining v useful technique to teach CELTAees as well. Really does help ss with tricky utterances.

OUPELTGlobal

8:30 AM

RT @harrisonmike: @jobethsteel after meaning and form are clear, then work on pronunciation #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:30 AM

@bcnpaul1 i think i missed sth - what's that about banana? #eltchat

fit_star

8:30 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Drills can be seen as a game, can be challenging to students and seen as useful.   #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:30 AM

JamieKeddie does a great jazz chant using this video - fun http://t.co/ZvZW0XvR #eltchat

rliberni

8:30 AM

@BrunoELT  some students just don't like it especially 1:1 & small groups - too exposed & 'silly' #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:30 AM

@michaelegriffin I've never used eltchat before, due to timezone issues, but it's fine here in Dubai. And great minds think alike...

teflerinha

8:30 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: only word you can say is banana to express idea about a given topic #eltchat Took me a second..intonation I presume?

Shaunwilden

8:31 AM

@rliberni @BrunoELT I disagree, you need to show them its use and you can use record it to show how it works #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:31 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 i think i missed sth - what's that about banana? #eltchat > intonation banana drilling (IBD - very current!!)

KariDalane

8:31 AM

@bcnpaul1 Oh my gosh that sounds fun.  I want to play.  #eltchat

JoHart

8:31 AM

@esolcourses @rliberni #ELTchat Agree drill more effective in context - but mine so long ago :) not given context. Only realised value later

esolcourses

8:31 AM

@eltnotebook @ElkySmith @bcnpaul1 think things like Jazz chants can be fun, though I'm not sure how much info. would be retained #ELTChat

worldteacher

8:31 AM

RT @rliberni: some students just don't like it especially 1:1 & small groups - too exposed & 'silly' #eltchat> Have found the opposite!!

rliberni

8:31 AM

RT @antoniaclare: So, any ideas for creative ways to use drills? #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:31 AM

@teflerinha Yes - sorry difficult to explain in 140# #eltchat Obviously, you use the word more than once as if you were talking

antoniaclare

8:32 AM

RT @rliberni: rather than just repeat change the phrase/sentence slightly, give lots of prompts/signals - then more than just rep #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:32 AM

It's harder to use drills in 1:1 classes I've found. They can stop and ask a question! #eltchat

rliberni

8:32 AM

@antoniaclare  rather than just repeat change the phrase/sentence slightly, give lots of prompts/signals - then more than just rep #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:32 AM

@bcnpaul1 surely currents and bananas are different fruits #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:32 AM

Love that one RT @antoniaclare: JamieKeddie does a great jazz chant using this video - fun http://t.co/d71VaY8y #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:33 AM

RT @worldteacher: @MrChrisJWilson I find 1:1s less embarassed about drilling esp for pron because they can really concentrate on & practise the sound #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:33 AM

@theteacherjames I'd do drilling in a more Adrian Underhill way - ie. focus on shape of mouth, position of tongue etc. #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:33 AM

Try repeating very, very fast lots of times - good for raising energy (and noise) levels #eltchat

worldteacher

8:33 AM

@MrChrisJWilson I find 1:1s less embarassed about drilling esp for pron because they can really concentrate on & practise the sound #eltchat

teflerinha

8:33 AM

@MrChrisJWilson Sounds interesting- adults or YLs? #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:33 AM

RT @theteacherjames: It's harder to use drills in 1:1 classes I've found. They can stop and ask a question! #eltchat > almost impossible no?

rliberni

8:33 AM

@MrChrisJWilson  agree was just thinking about some downsides I'd some across #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:33 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 surely currents and bananas are different fruits #eltchat  Arrgghh!

bcBuge

8:33 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 @OUPELTGlobal  Shame isn't it  - throwing the baby out with the bathwater - teaching should be about what works best #eltchat

esolcourses

8:33 AM

@JoHart @rliberni Drills were taught out of context  for me, too - took me a long time to (literally) put two and two together :) #ELTChat

MrChrisJWilson

8:33 AM

#eltchat I remember being at a workshop where it looked at getting students to create their own Jazz chants

michaelegriffin

8:33 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Yes! Sense of achievement and something to build on #ELTchat

bcnpaul1

8:33 AM

@KariDalane It is fun! 2 people arguing about sthg with one repeated word is great for pron #eltchat

BobK99

8:34 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Drills can be seen as a game...  #eltchat > I did an MFL teaching crs; lect's most popular game was 'Cherche Mimi' 2/2

jobethsteel

8:34 AM

RT @rliberni: @antoniaclare  giv lots of prompts/signals - then more than just rep #eltchat  substitution drill with visuals too!

rliberni

8:34 AM

@esolcourses  Lol :-) #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:34 AM

@worldteacher I imagine it's also v.useful in multilingual environment to work on THEIR pron issues. #eltchat

teflerinha

8:34 AM

@michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Drilling (done well) can really pick up energy in a class #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:34 AM

@bcnpaul1 Well they are a lot shorter for a start. Have to find a more creative way to introduce repetition. #eltchat

rliberni

8:34 AM

@BrunoELT @eltnotebook  I was just thinking of some negatives from things ss had said tho I agree - adapt #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:34 AM

RT @michaelegriffin: @BrunoELT V. good point! I also think its a nice shift towards a bit more T-centered 4 a few minutes which my students seem to like #ELTchat

esolcourses

8:34 AM

RT @harrisonmike: Love that one RT @antoniaclare: JamieKeddie does a great jazz chant using this video - fun http://t.co/bJYqWXDO #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:34 AM

@BrunoELT V. good point! I also think its a nice shift towards a bit more T-centered 4 a few minutes which my students seem to like #ELTchat

rliberni

8:35 AM

RT @ChrisOzog: @antoniaclare I wrote about drilling a while ago, with a couple of ideas near the end. I love Italian accents! http://t.co/THCbzWbt #eltchat

rliberni

8:35 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Drills can be seen as a game, can be challenging to students and seen as useful.   #eltchat Yes then more valid

antoniaclare

8:35 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: So  far I think we've mentioned substitution, using visuals, mumbling, rapping, bananaing, jazz chants....#eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:35 AM

RT @teflerinha: @michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Drilling (done well) can really pick up energy in a class #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:35 AM

@harrisonmike Good idea, but not a method I've ever connected with, if you see what I mean. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:35 AM

So  far I think we've mentioned substitution, using visuals, mumbling, rapping, bananaing, jazz chants....#eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:36 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: So far we've mentioned substitution, using visuals, mumbling, rapping, bananaing, jazz chants #eltchat > whispering drills?

teflerinha

8:36 AM

#eltchat Negatives: overdrilling, unnecessary drilling (no challenge) and done feebly..when only a straggly response...horrid.

harrisonmike

8:36 AM

@theteacherjames imo better than just parroting, if you see what I mean. More meaningful to st esp in 121 contexts? #eltchat

ingramanna

8:36 AM

@Shaunwilden Re real life drilling: I (unintentionally) drill my toddler. He looks at me+works out what to do. Useful for pron,no? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:36 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @michaelegriffin: RT @teflerinha: @michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Drilling (done well) can really pick up energy in a class #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:36 AM

RT @michaelegriffin: RT @teflerinha: @michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Drilling (done well) can really pick up energy in a class #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:37 AM

@BrunoELT good point. Sts do enjoy it (IMO) generally. The choice not to drill is the teacher's = depriving sts of sthg they like #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:37 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: It would seem so :-) #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:37 AM

@harrisonmike I see what you mean, but whenever I started talking about tongues my sts look at me oddly. Must be me :-) #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:37 AM

@bcnpaul1 drills in the best foreign accent you can manage! #eltchat

englishraven

8:37 AM

Sorry to jump in and out of the discussion like this... My take on drills (+ ways to apply them) here: http://t.co/TOs2LBar #ELTChat

Shaunwilden

8:37 AM

@bcnpaul1 and shouting ones, great for causing chaos and peeing off the teacher next door :-) #eltchat

rliberni

8:37 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: this is a nice vid on drilling for stress timing http://t.co/cU7Y9ml0 #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:37 AM

Although it may be frowned upon, it seems most of us still consider drilling an important part of the lesson. Is that right? #eltchat

rliberni

8:37 AM

@ChrisOzog  yes good for inton & sentence stress (only say stressed words) #eltchat

JoHart

8:38 AM

@BrunoELT @rliberni @eltnotebook #ELTchat Too much in the spotlight maybe? In a group the individual less likely to recieve all attention

harrisonmike

8:38 AM

@theteacherjames speak in 'tongues' and maybe they'll look even more incredulous hehe #eltchat

esolcourses

8:38 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: So what advise would we give to a tcher about using drills in the classroom? #eltchat How should they approach it?

Shaunwilden

8:38 AM

So what advise would we give to a tcher about using drills in the classroom? #eltchat How should they approach it?

ElkySmith

8:38 AM

RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames I'd do drilling in a more Adrian Underhill way - ie. focus on shape of mouth, position of tongue etc. #eltchat

rliberni

8:38 AM

@BrunoELT  ss won't enjoy it if the teacher doesn't! #eltchat

teflerinha

8:38 AM

#eltchat What about dialogue builds, eliciting, memorising and drilling in two halves..anyone admit to doing that ;)

bcnpaul1

8:39 AM

@Shaunwilden advice for teacher - give it a go. If sts like it and it helps,  keep using it and experiment (e.g st as teacher) #eltchat

rliberni

8:39 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Try repeating very, very fast lots of times - good for raising energy (and noise) levels #eltchat

louisealix68

8:39 AM

#eltchat catching up. Topic is rote learning/drilling?

ElkySmith

8:39 AM

@harrisonmike @theteacherjames IME what Ss really want re. pron is explicit f/b on a) if their pron is correct b) if not, why not #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:39 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: So wht advise giv 2 a tcher abt using drills? #eltchat How shld they approach it? Only in context and only if nec.

rliberni

8:39 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @KariDalane It is fun! 2 people arguing about sthg with one repeated word is great for pron #eltchat

teflerinha

8:39 AM

#eltchat What about dialogue builds, eliciting, memorising and drilling in two halves..anyone admit to doing that ;) except Mr Scrivener?

theteacherjames

8:39 AM

@BrunoELT @rliberni @eltnotebook I've found that my attempts to do 1:1 drilling break down very quickly. #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:39 AM

I sometimes drill just the sounds, not the words, just to get the stress/intonation (da da da DA da).Warning:sts can think ur crazy #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:39 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @bcnpaul1 and shouting ones, great for causing chaos and peeing off the teacher next door :-) #eltchat > absolutely!!

antoniaclare

8:40 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @Shaunwilden advice for teacher - give it a go. If sts like it and it helps,  keep using it and experiment #eltchat

rliberni

8:40 AM

RT @esolcourses: RT @harrisonmike: Love that one RT @antoniaclare: JamieKeddie does a great jazz chant using this video - fun http://t.co/bJYqWXDO #eltchat

rliberni

8:40 AM

RT @michaelegriffin: @BrunoELT V. good point! I also think its a nice shift towards a bit more T-centered 4 a few minutes which my students seem to like #ELTchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:40 AM

#eltchat Make it meaning full, make it fun, be confident and don't worry about looking a bit stupid. Those are my drilling tips

rliberni

8:40 AM

@antoniaclare  tongue twisters can do this too! #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:40 AM

@antoniaclare That also works for intonation with humming. A fun activity is humming short dialogues "hello how're you?" etc #eltchat

worldteacher

8:40 AM

@antoniaclare Agree - I use da da language from 'Pronunciation Games' all the time! #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:40 AM

RT @englishraven: Sorry to jump in and out of the discussion like this... My take on drills (+ ways to apply them) here: http://t.co/TOs2LBar #ELTChat

rliberni

8:41 AM

@Shaunwilden  whoa tell me about the bananas! #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:41 AM

@rliberni Only say the stressed words and leave space (silence) for unstressed? Or simply say stressed words in time? #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:41 AM

RT @ElkySmith: @harrisonmike @theteacherjames IME what Ss really want re. pron is explicit f/b on a) if their pron is correct b) if not, why not #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:41 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Yes but is it frowned upon? Trad Audiolingual drilling yes - but not repetition work in the forms described here #eltchat

OUPELTGlobal

8:41 AM

off to a lunch time meeting, but a question - what about introverted sts and drilling - too much pressure? Until next week #eltchat

teflerinha

8:42 AM

RT @worldteacher: #eltchat Agree that for drilling to be successful, teacher must be 100% enthusiastic & prepared to make a bit of a fool of themselves!

bcnpaul1

8:42 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @rliberni Am still not sure about it ask @bcnpaul1 #eltchat Will write a follow-up post explaining the bananas :) #eltchat

worldteacher

8:42 AM

#eltchat Agree that for drilling to be successful, teacher must be 100% enthusiastic & prepared to make a bit of a fool of themselves!

theteacherjames

8:42 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: A question - what about introverted sts and drilling - too much pressure? >> Great question #eltchat

harrisonmike

8:42 AM

RT @ChrisOzog: @ElkySmith @harrisonmike @theteacherjames But after fb, surely practice or further awareness raising is essential? #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:42 AM

@ElkySmith @harrisonmike @theteacherjames But after fb, surely practice or further awareness raising is essential? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:42 AM

@rliberni Am still not sure about it ask @bcnpaul1 #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:42 AM

@OUPELTGlobal Think it's an opportunity for introvert sts - can be no pressure to not make mistakes alone, but still take part #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:42 AM

Advice to teacher...watch someone else do it (video, or peer teacher), practise in front of mirror (alone), then try it #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:43 AM

RT @theteacherjames: RT @OUPELTGlobal: wht abt introverted sts & drilling - Do it in groups & peer drilling 1st #eltchat

rliberni

8:43 AM

@ChrisOzog  mumble the utterance with just stressed words audible then they do same -  highlights words and also inton patts used #eltchat

esolcourses

8:43 AM

RT @worldteacher: #eltchat Agree that for drilling to be successful, teacher must be enthusiastic & prepared to make a fool of themselves!

eltnotebook

8:43 AM

@jobethsteel  Yes - just rep work on the language that's being taught, using silent, mumbled etc techniques as well as choral/ind #eltchat

louisealix68

8:43 AM

Have used drills in more adv classes with native accents (pretend to be queen, yorkshire man, etc) can b fun way  retaining chunks #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:44 AM

@worldteacher Yes, though this is also where it can go horribly wrong.  Perhaps try try it out in small doses, not overdo it #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:44 AM

RT @teflerinha: #eltchat No-one wants to talk about dialogue builds?  :( Go on you can we'll let you :-)

ElkySmith

8:44 AM

@ChrisOzog @harrisonmike @theteacherjames Yes - T can make a mental note of that phoneme/word/etc. and do further work on it #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:44 AM

@theteacherjames no - that's where the confidence building comes in. Start with silent and it's ideal for them. #eltchat

teflerinha

8:44 AM

#eltchat No-one wants to talk about dialogue builds?  :(

jobethsteel

8:45 AM

RT @ChrisOzog: @esolcourses @worldteacher #eltchat Teacher enthusiasm is essential! If T is shy, ss will not want to participate fully and it won't work

ChrisOzog

8:45 AM

@esolcourses @worldteacher #eltchat Teacher enthusiasm is essential! If T is shy, ss will not want to participate fully and it won't work

antoniaclare

8:45 AM

@Shaunwilden Yes, dialogue builds good, as sts can be providing the language too #eltchat

BobK99

8:45 AM

2/2 ...Mimi was a bear #eltchat. 1 S left room, T hid Mim. and set drill  . Returner had to guess judging by volume. Most pop. filler w/ Ss!

rliberni

8:45 AM

RT @theteacherjames: RT @OUPELTGlobal: A question - what about introverted sts and drilling - too much pressure? >> Great question #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:45 AM

@theteacherjames @OUPELTGlobal  it's the intro ss who don't want to dive in at the deep end #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:46 AM

@teflerinha I missed it, did you say what they were so people in #eltchat know?

antoniaclare

8:46 AM

RT @BrunoELT: “@englishraven: My take on drills (+ ways to apply them) here: http://t.co/EO4ivnk5 #ELTChatâ€

rliberni

8:46 AM

RT @teflerinha: #eltchat No-one wants to talk about dialogue builds?  :( go ahead :-)

bcnpaul1

8:46 AM

@rliberni That book? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:46 AM

@Shaunwilden Have tried twice! #eltchat Dialogue builds old-fashioned, but fun at lower level- and good for ESOL ss with literacy issues

bcnpaul1

8:47 AM

Agree it's not a good idea to go 'Drill-crazy' if you don't do it usually. Might scare students off! #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:47 AM

@theteacherjames @OUPELTGlobal My take is that drilling is a nice chance 2 hide and blend a bit so perhaps better 4 introverted Ss #Eltchat

antoniaclare

8:47 AM

RT @MrChrisJWilson: it can also be fun to then change the emotions of the characters and see what happens with the same dialogue #eltchat

rliberni

8:47 AM

@BobK99  this is a great game with kids for learning vocab too #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:47 AM

@eltnotebook @teflerinha Bring back? It never went away in as far as I'm concerned :-) #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

8:47 AM

@teflerinha it can also be fun to then change the emotions of the characters and see what happens with the same dialogue #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:48 AM

@rliberni Ah yes - sorry, bit slow on the uptake :) #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:48 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: Agree it's not a good idea to go 'Drill-crazy' if you don't do it usually. Might scare students off! #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:48 AM

RT @MrChrisJWilson: @teflerinha fun 2 then change the emotions of the characters & C wht happens w/ the same dialogue #eltchat I do this too

rliberni

8:48 AM

@bcnpaul1  Sounds Intriguing - by Alan Maley #eltchat

teflerinha

8:48 AM

@antoniaclare @Shaunwilden Yes, good point- dialogue builds learner generated. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:49 AM

@antoniaclare Thats a good idea - do you play a bit then they drill it ? #eltchat

eltnotebook

8:49 AM

@Shaunwilden @teflerinha Glad it's not just me :) #eltchat

teflerinha

8:49 AM

@antoniaclare @MrChrisJWilson Nice one- think my tweetdeck is playing up actually as didn't see this in #eltchat column

antoniaclare

8:49 AM

Have been using video as stimulus for drilling recently (very short exchanges) - getting sts to shadow, or repeat at natural speed #eltchat

BobK99

8:49 AM

@rliberni  #eltchat Yes - for learning anything really - but only for YLs (she was primary MFL)

rliberni

8:49 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: Agree it's not a good idea to go 'Drill-crazy' if you don't do it usually. Might scare students off! #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:50 AM

@BrunoELT @antoniaclare Why not? #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:50 AM

@eltnotebook I don't think being introverted necessarily means the st lacks confidence or ability, just different personality type. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:50 AM

RT @oyajimbo: #eltchat sorry, late to the party - wrt drills, disguise the key. Use apps eg sock puppets to get ss repeating/Talking Tom & beat his buffer

oyajimbo

8:50 AM

#eltchat sorry, late to the party - wrt drills, disguise the key. Use apps eg sock puppets to get ss repeating/Talking Tom & beat his buffer

bcnpaul1

8:50 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Have been using video as stimulus for drilling recently (very short exchanges) - getting sts to shadow, or repeat at natural speed #eltchat

rliberni

8:50 AM

@bcnpaul1  :-) #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:51 AM

RT @MrChrisJWilson: @michaelegriffin @theteacherjames @OUPELTGlobal or to show off as an extrovert! #eltchat

oyajimbo

8:51 AM

#eltchat @barbsaka  recently posted on using puppets to help shy ss overcome & produce

theteacherjames

8:51 AM

@MrChrisJWilson @michaelegriffin @OUPELTGlobal But they can't really hide from the people around them! #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:51 AM

RT @theteacherjames: @eltnotebook I don't think being introverted necessarily means the st lacks confidence or ability, just different personality type. #eltchat

rliberni

8:51 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @antoniaclare really like that idea (video-drilling). A nice alternative for the shy and retiring teacher! #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:51 AM

@antoniaclare really like that idea (video-drilling). A nice alternative for the shy and retiring teacher! #eltchat

rliberni

8:51 AM

RT @oyajimbo: #eltchat sorry, late to the party - wrt drills, disguise the key. Use apps eg sock puppets to get ss repeating/Talking Tom & beat his buffer

Shaunwilden

8:52 AM

@BrunoELT So you never memorize things - song lyrics, favorite quotes, poetry etc? #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:52 AM

@BrunoELT I've seen memorizing dialogues done (what I would call) very badly many times. #ELTchat

teflerinha

8:52 AM

@BrunoELT @antoniaclare @shaunwilden It does feel unnatural, but gives beginners whole chunks they can use confidently #eltchat

rliberni

8:53 AM

@BobK99  my group were primary  too learning French. It was their fav game (not the other tchrs tho!) #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:53 AM

@theteacherjames @MrChrisJWilson @OUPELTGlobal I dunno, James. I am pretty sure I did some hiding (lip synching) back in the day. #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

8:53 AM

About 5 mins left if there's still something you wish to share re drilling #eltchat

ChrisOzog

8:53 AM

RT @antoniaclare: RT @MrChrisJWilson: change the emotions of the characters and see what happens with the same dialogue #eltchat Yes!

esolcourses

8:53 AM

Has anyone mentioned the Callan Method, yet? @chiasuan penned an interesting post on it a while back http://t.co/wviTjwlH #eltchat

rliberni

8:53 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @BrunoELT So you never memorize things - song lyrics, favorite quotes, poetry etc? #eltchat

teflerinha

8:54 AM

@michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Which is why, perhaps, ts need training to do it well :) #eltchat

Marisa_C

8:54 AM

in a class observing -T did not use any drills (against) Ss aware of forms (3rd cond) but unable to articulate confidently smoothly #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:54 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: Thats a good idea - do you play a bit then they drill it? #eltchat Yes, sometimes they predict first, then listen+repeat

eltnotebook

8:54 AM

@theteacherjames As one, the idea of being asked to use lang straight away in front of others would terrify me. #eltchat

rliberni

8:54 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: About 5 mins left if there's still something you wish to share re drilling #eltchat

jobethsteel

8:55 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: @Shaunwilden at the end will you tell us why you're wearing a hard hat? or is it really for this particular chat? #eltchat LoL

eltnotebook

8:55 AM

#eltchat  Lee Shutler on drilling : http://t.co/9Bo6pGqq

antoniaclare

8:55 AM

@BrunoELT Me too - again, it's all down to how it's done.  Important to keep the dialogue very natural sounding,aiming for accuracy #ELTchat

theteacherjames

8:55 AM

@eltnotebook Me too - & it's not about confidence or ability, but being put on the spot in terms I don't feel comfortable with. #eltchat

rliberni

8:55 AM

RT @teflerinha: @michaelegriffin @BrunoELT Which is why, perhaps, ts need training to do it well :) #eltchat true not a natural activity

teflerinha

8:55 AM

RT @Marisa_C: in a class observing -T did not use any drills (against) Ss aware of forms (3rd cond) but unable to articulate confidently smoothly #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:55 AM

@Shaunwilden at the end will you tell us why you're wearing a hard hat? or is it really for this particular chat? #eltchat

michaelegriffin

8:55 AM

@Shaunwilden @BrunoELT song lyrics etc. sound like emotional things we might have a connection to and not something we are told to #ELTchat

theteacherjames

8:55 AM

@michaelegriffin @MrChrisJWilson @OUPELTGlobal I agree, that's why I don't think drills are good for introverts. #ELTchat

theteacherjames

8:56 AM

@MrChrisJWilson @michaelegriffin But then it's not a drill, it's something else! (PS don't forget the #eltchat hashtag!)

teflerinha

8:56 AM

@esolcourses @esolmark @chiasuan Mmn but isn't drilling then not a means to an end, but the whole method? #eltchat

feedtheteacher

8:56 AM

RT @oyajimbo: #eltchat sorry, late to the party - wrt drills, disguise the key. Use apps eg sock puppets to get ss repeating/Talking Tom & beat his buffer

esolcourses

8:56 AM

@Shaunwilden @BrunoELT with songs, you don't need to make a conscious effort to learn, tho - music provides the context 4 lyrics #eltchat

rliberni

8:57 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @theteacherjames Agree that drilling doesn't suit everyone, and think sts shld be encouraged, but not forced #eltchat

rliberni

8:57 AM

RT @eltnotebook: #eltchat  Lee Shutler on drilling : http://t.co/9Bo6pGqq

MrChrisJWilson

8:57 AM

@theteacherjames @michaelegriffin sorry about that #eltchat . So what is it! (genuine question)

hpratt01

8:57 AM

@harrisonmike @antoniaclare I followed your link and am going to use this tonight! thanks #eltchat

Shaunwilden

8:57 AM

@BrunoELT My point was that memorizing is a sth we do so we should try and foster this in sts #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:57 AM

RT @MrChrisJWilson: @theteacherjames @michaelegriffin  hum can't lip syncing be good to develop awarness of shapes for productions? #eltchat

esolcourses

8:57 AM

@jobethsteel @bcnpaul1 @Shaunwilden as @sandynay  pointed out, drilling can be dangerous - should prob. be wearing goggles, also ;) #eltchat

antoniaclare

8:57 AM

@theteacherjames Agree that drilling doesn't suit everyone, and think sts shld be encouraged, but not forced #eltchat

bcnpaul1

8:58 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: @BrunoELT My point was that memorizing is a sth we do so we should try and foster this in sts #eltchat > agree

Shaunwilden

8:58 AM

@Marisa_C Dont worry there'll be a transcript and summary :-) #eltchat

Marisa_C

8:58 AM

my trainees gutted we could not follow this today - we've just been talking abt it and now watching it (not) happen #eltchat

theteacherjames

8:58 AM

@MrChrisJWilson @michaelegriffin Dunno, let me get back to you! #eltchat

feedtheteacher

8:59 AM

#eltchat @oyajimbo something that can be done with YL is telling them to repeat 'with different voices"ex: monster voice, a vampire, a baby

teflerinha

8:59 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: RT @Shaunwilden: @BrunoELT My point was that memorizing is a sth we do so we should try and foster this in sts #eltchat > agree

rliberni

8:59 AM

RT @BobK99: RT @jobethsteel: RT @bcnpaul1: @Shaunwilden at the end will you tell us why [the] hard hat? ... #eltchat If you ask me, it's brick-bats :)

theteacherjames

8:59 AM

@eltnotebook True but doesn't mean that drilling doesn't have the same problem, just to a lesser extent. (Don't forget the #eltchat hashtag)

BobK99

8:59 AM

RT @jobethsteel: RT @bcnpaul1: @Shaunwilden at the end will you tell us why [the] hard hat? ... #eltchat If you ask me, it's brick-bats :)

rliberni

8:59 AM

RT @antoniaclare: My Taekwondo teacher reckons you need to practise something 100 times before you can even start to get it right ;) #eltchat

rliberni

8:59 AM

RT @bcnpaul1: RT @Shaunwilden: @BrunoELT My point was that memorizing is a sth we do so we should try and foster this in sts #eltchat > agree

oyajimbo

8:59 AM

#eltchat if you are going to drill ss (& I think sometimes we need to) make them look the other way. Smoke & apps help!

antoniaclare

8:59 AM

My Taekwondo teacher reckons you need to practise something 100 times before you can even start to get it right ;) #eltchat

Shaunwilden

9:00 AM

Thanks for joining all - 21BST join @Marisa_C for Strategies for reaching out to introverted students in the language classroom #eltchat

feedtheteacher

9:00 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @theteacherjames Agree that drilling doesn't suit everyone, and think sts shld be encouraged, but not forced #eltchat

jaltshinshu

9:00 AM

RT @oyajimbo: Help me decide: Who would you most like to talk to at JALT Conference 2012? #tricider http://t.co/Ka1iBHjC #JALT #JALT2012 #JALTJr #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:00 AM

RT @eltnotebook: But also about being asked to express ideas in front of other people -much more threatening than silent repetition #eltchat

rliberni

9:00 AM

RT @feedtheteacher: #eltchat @oyajimbo something that can be done with YL is telling them to repeat 'with different voices"ex: monster voice, a vampire, a baby

teflerinha

9:00 AM

RT @antoniaclare: My Taekwondo teacher reckons you need to practise something 100 times before you can even start to get it right ;) #eltchat

oyajimbo

9:01 AM

@feedtheteacher absolutely. Old school trumps tech every time :) #eltchat

teflerinha

9:01 AM

RT @antoniaclare: @theteacherjames Agree that drilling doesn't suit everyone, and think sts shld be encouraged, but not forced #eltchat

bcnpaul1

9:01 AM

RT @Shaunwilden: Thanks for joining all - 21BST join @Marisa_C for Strategies for reaching out to introverted students in the language classroom #eltchat

rliberni

9:01 AM

OK gr8 chat today got to fly - thanks to brill mods @Shaunwilden & @BrunoELT  always drilling us!! #eltchat

teflerinha

9:01 AM

#eltchat Thanks everyone. very interesting. Now have a train to catch!

jobethsteel

9:01 AM

#eltchat Thanks for another great chat.  Byee

eltnotebook

9:02 AM

@theteacherjames Depends how it's done.The T as sergeant mjr would terrify anyone, but it can give Ss important time to internalise #eltchat

antoniaclare

9:02 AM

@theteacherjames Indeed ;) #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:02 AM

@antoniaclare Sorry: 10,000 hours of practice, right? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

9:02 AM

Right am off to inspect a school and watch some teaching ,will I see any drills? #eltchat See you all later

MissLadyCaz

9:02 AM

RT @missnoor28: Please stop talking about motivation! @chucksandy http://t.co/lm6nF6WI #iTDi #eltchat #edchat #education #ESL #EFL #ELT ( via @iTDiPro)

worldteacher

9:02 AM

Thanks all for another great #eltchat - lots of food for thought!!

MrJuanSho

9:02 AM

RT @antoniaclare: My Taekwondo teacher reckons you need to practise something 100 times before you can even start to get it right ;) #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:02 AM

@antoniaclare 10,000 of practice, right? #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:03 AM

@MrChrisJWilson I'm beginning to think this is a wider problem across ELT, to be honest. #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

9:03 AM

#eltchat I'll do summary if no one else wants?

mark_arthur

9:03 AM

RT @feedtheteacher: #eltchat @oyajimbo something that can be done with YL is telling them to repeat 'with different voices"ex: monster voice, a vampire, a baby

oyajimbo

9:03 AM

Now right it out a hundred times before dawn #eltchat Gladiator (Cleese) in which film?

esolcourses

9:03 AM

Thanks for another great #eltchat, everyone & to mods @Shaunwilden @BrunoELT & @rliberni :)

MrChrisJWilson

9:03 AM

#eltchat seams right to be talking about introverted students after some of the comments on drilling @theteacherjames

theteacherjames

9:03 AM

Do we have a volunteer to write the summary? #eltchat

bcnpaul1

9:03 AM

@Shaunwilden Cheers Shaun. Look forward to a YouTube vid of you singing YMCA with that outfit on (for drilling purposes of course!) #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:04 AM

@MrChrisJWilson Cheers Chris. Keep an eye out for the summary and DM me if it doesn't appear. #eltchat

EnglishWorkout1

9:04 AM

RT @OUPELTGlobal: Drills can be seen as a game, can be challenging to students and seen as useful.   #eltchat

eltnotebook

9:04 AM

My first #eltchat Exhausting and confusing but fun. Will be back :)

BobK99

9:04 AM

RT @BobK99: Time for Wimbledon. Thanks all for a great #eltchat.

SeanBanville

9:04 AM

RT @english247: Life in The UK: The British Royal Family - lessons and quizzes http://t.co/BUnDTSmR #esl #esol #kids #k12 #engpls #eltchat

feedtheteacher

9:05 AM

@oyajimbo in fact, there are apps for that too, lol, but it could make a simple task a bit complicated. #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:05 AM

@esolcourses Sorry Sue, @MrChrisJWilson beat you to it. What about tonight's? #eltchat

MrChrisJWilson

9:05 AM

@theteacherjames I think that's true, there can be a "tough, become more talkative" 'answer' to this with everything. #eltchat

antoniaclare

9:07 AM

Great chat everyone - thanks. #eltchat  Now, repeat after me.... ;)

feedtheteacher

9:08 AM

Thank you @Shaunwilden @BrunoELT @rliberni for the great mod. Have a great day everyone #eltchat

theteacherjames

9:08 AM

RT @antoniaclare: Great chat everyone - thanks. #eltchat  Now, repeat after me.... ;)

theteacherjames

9:08 AM

@Shaunwilden @MrChrisJWilson Ah, and there I was thinking I was being helpful. Sorry Chris! #eltchat

 

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