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time
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status
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Shaunwilden
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2:00 PM
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Shall we get started? #ELTchat
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cybraryman1
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2:00 PM
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#eltchat NOW "Do ELT publishers have too much influence and are they out of touch with reality? Do they lag behind the times #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:00 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal Great! Thanks - some authors would be good too #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:00 PM
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Any published ELT authors joining #ELTchat today please? They might have more information than the rest of us
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Marisa_C
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2:01 PM
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@Pearson_ELT @PearsonELTUSA @wetheround @MacmillanELT Join #eltchat today it's about: you all :-)
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esolcourses
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2:01 PM
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@Shaunwilden @cioccas - true. Though only have a fairly limited perspective on them #ELTChat
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royparmesan
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2:01 PM
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Too much influence re whom? Publishers whatever they do - time disconnect w practice will get bigger #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:01 PM
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Today's #ELTchat should be interesting ;)
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Shaunwilden
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2:02 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal Would you like to get the ball rolling? ;-) #ELTchat
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rliberni
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2:03 PM
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This is a big question I think yes, probably not and prob not tho lead times for launch might affect this #eltchat (oops in edchat mode)
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:03 PM
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@Shaunwilden Well... why don't we hear what people think and we'll see if we can allay some of their suspicions :) #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:03 PM
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@Shaunwilden #ELTchat Who asked this question Shaun? Can't find them
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Marisa_C
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2:04 PM
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And small publishers for that matter - they carry the same influence within the school context #ELTchat
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esolcourses
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2:04 PM
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RT @Marisa_C I believe big publishers do have a lot of influence, especially in contexts where the CB is the syllabus is the method #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:04 PM
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I believe big publishers do have a lot of influence, especially in contexts where the CB is the syllabus is the method #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:04 PM
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@Marisa_C It's a third place topic from previous #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:05 PM
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RT @theteacherjames: @Shaunwilden @esolcourses @cioccas And publishers don't only publish coursebooks. #ELTchat Good point
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theteacherjames
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2:05 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal Good to see you here! #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:05 PM
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@ElkySmith @Marisa_C @trylingual No it was ty last week #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:05 PM
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Does anyone disagree about the influence factor? #eltchat
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theteacherjames
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2:05 PM
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@Shaunwilden @esolcourses @cioccas And publishers don't only publish coursebooks. #ELTchat
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elawassell
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2:05 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: I believe big publishers do have a lot of influence,especially in contexts where the CB is the syllabus is the method #ELTchat
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rliberni
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2:06 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal I think that is the biggest drawback things move fast pubs can't #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:06 PM
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RT @Shaunwilden: RT @theteacherjames: @Shaunwilden @esolcourses @cioccas And publishers don't only publish coursebooks. #ELTchat Good point
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Marisa_C
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2:06 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal I think it's two or 3 yrs to get a project off ground or am I wrong? #eltchat
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Wiktor_K
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2:06 PM
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Hi there - busy lurker here today, just going to watch most of the time #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:06 PM
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RT @rliberni: I think much of ELT is decided by CBs but that they also help teachers a lot, especially new teachers #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:06 PM
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@Marisa_C One of the biggest problems is that CBs take time to put together, esp. to our standard of quality - can become outdated #ELTchat
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esolcourses
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2:06 PM
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@Marisa_C agree - also think there's no escaping the fact that publishers are in business to make money, & focus is on what sells #ELTchat
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rliberni
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2:06 PM
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I think much of ELT is decided by CBs but that they also help teachers a lot, especially new teachers #eltchat
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timjulian60
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2:06 PM
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Hi folks! I've been teaching for 30 yrs and the improvement in cbs has been massive imo #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:07 PM
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RT @rliberni: @OUPELTGlobal I think that is the biggest drawback things move fast pubs can't #eltchat ] agree - & web has speeded things up
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Shaunwilden
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2:07 PM
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@rliberni @OUPELTGlobal Yes and these days it is even faster given all the social networking #ELTchat
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BobK99
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2:07 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: And small publishers for that matter ... #ELTchat > Quite. What's a 'publisher' today?
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ElkySmith
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2:07 PM
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#eltchat Publishers have big influence on new teachers through the coursebooks they encounter pre-service and in-service.
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theteacherjames
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2:07 PM
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@Marisa_C Definitely not disagreeing here. #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:07 PM
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Often, yes RT @Marisa_C: @OUPELTGlobal I think it's two or 3 yrs to get a project off ground or am I wrong? #eltchat
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englishraven
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2:08 PM
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RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Publishers have big influence on new teachers through the coursebooks they encounter pre-service and in-service.
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Wiktor_K
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2:08 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal Do you find that paper-based CBs get in your way? Would things be different with constantly updated digital CBs? #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:08 PM
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I have also found publishers very helpful - when they come and see me #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:08 PM
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The speed with which things change today is a fairly recent phenomenon tho #ELTchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:08 PM
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Not if they want to produce quality RT @rliberni: @OUPELTGlobal I think that is the biggest drawback things move fast pubs can't #eltchat
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elawassell
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2:09 PM
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@theteacherjames true! In some countries - the workshops organised by the publishers are the only form of PD for many teachers. #ELTchat
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rliberni
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2:09 PM
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@Marisa_C true I used Kernel Lessons for over 3 years! No other choice #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:09 PM
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@Wiktor_K Probably not. The content still needs to be of high quality. Still all the checks and assurance stages to go through #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:09 PM
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I personally find that published coursebooks have a short shelf life #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:09 PM
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@Marisa_C Yes new but one that must have an effect on traditional publishing models #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:10 PM
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RT @teflerinha: Hi, not sure I have much new to say on this- but happy to respond as an author to any qs #ELTchat
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esolcourses
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2:10 PM
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RT @BobK99 RT @Marisa_C And small publishers for that matter #ELTchat > Quite. What's a 'publisher' today? ] good point. Much broader now
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ElkySmith
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2:10 PM
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@Marisa_C #eltchat Do you think CBs like Speakout and Life, with their BBC/NG material will have a longer shelf life?
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rliberni
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2:10 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: I personally find that published coursebooks have a short shelf life #ELTchat
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Marisa_C
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2:11 PM
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@ElkySmith Perhaps, the print part though has some pretty traditional and outdated stuff - still - which is a shame #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:11 PM
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Some school timetable are so frantic that there simply isn't time to create anything new - CBs are the simplest way #eltchat
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bunarart
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2:11 PM
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#ELTchat ELF issue must be included in CBs, rather than traditional patterns
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BobK99
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2:12 PM
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RT @BobK99: #eltchat 6/9/12 mth lead time (as print publishers do) they're bound to miss the Next Big Thing - doesn't make bks irrelvnt
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ElkySmith
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2:12 PM
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@Marisa_C I agree. How much further can CBs really evolve? #eltchat
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theteacherjames
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2:12 PM
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@Marisa_C But the language doesn't change that much, fundamentally. Think there is a way to create materials with lasting relevance #ELTchat
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Wiktor_K
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2:12 PM
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RT @rliberni: Some school timetable are so frantic that there simply isnt time to create anything new - CBs are the simplest way #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:12 PM
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Maybe a digitally evolving CB with print on demand? #eltchat
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nihangunday
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2:12 PM
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RT @IsilBoy: Motivate Online Learners With 4 Easy Strategies http://t.co/CcmenCL0 #eltchat #edtech
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worldteacher
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2:12 PM
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Just got away from a Skype call, so missed the start of #eltchat. Will try to catch up. Probably just lurk on this one, anyway!
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worldteacher
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2:13 PM
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RT @rliberni: Maybe a digitally evolving CB with print on demand? #eltchat >Sounds great - do you know if anyone;'s working on such a thing?
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theteacherjames
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2:13 PM
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@Wiktor_K @OUPELTGlobal And constant online updates would be really expensive! #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:13 PM
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@theteacherjames #ELTchat The lang doesn't change THAT much but topics and what we know abt learning is at a different place
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esolcourses
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2:13 PM
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@Marisa_C @ElkySmith worth bearing in mind that traditional doesn't always=bad though. Can sometimes still be relevant #ELTChat
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Shaunwilden
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2:13 PM
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@theteacherjames @Marisa_C Was just about to ask what you thought it was :-) #ELTchat
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bunarart
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2:13 PM
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#ELTchat accor. to a study conducted in Istanbul., sts are not aware enough of ELF, even ELT sts.
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:13 PM
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RT @BobK99: RT @BobK99: #eltchat 6/9/12 mth lead time (as print publishers do) they're bound to miss the Next Big Thing - doesn't make bks irrelvnt
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theteacherjames
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2:13 PM
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@Marisa_C Not sure what it is though! #ELTchat
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theteacherjames
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2:14 PM
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@Shaunwilden If only... #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:14 PM
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@teflerinha So what that means is a different book for each local context? #ELTchat
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theteacherjames
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2:14 PM
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@Marisa_C True. One day we'll understand how languages are learned & we'll miss these wild west days! #ELTchat
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hartle
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2:14 PM
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#eltchat Hi everyone, what are we talking about today?
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Marisa_C
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2:14 PM
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@esolcourses #ELTChat I have for a long time been observing classes where all the major coursebooks used for teaching - don't really agree
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Wiktor_K
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2:14 PM
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I'm hopeful abt digital native teachers - able to curate & develop exciting & current materials, where CBs fall short. Are you? #eltchat
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teflerinha
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2:14 PM
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#eltchat Think CBs need to leave plenty of room for personalisation/adapting to local context- provide a framework.
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:15 PM
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Expensive and resource-heavy RT @theteacherjames: @Wiktor_K @OUPELTGlobal And constant online updates would be really expensive! #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:15 PM
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@nihangunday remember to use the #ELTchat hashtag :-)
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teflerinha
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2:15 PM
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RT @teflerinha: @Shaunwilden No not different book- but flexible and adaptable books #eltchat (forgot again)
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MrChrisJWilson
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2:15 PM
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#eltchat I'd love to see publishers really adapt to new media. Subscription charges which lead to Sending out regularly updated lessons etc
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worldteacher
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2:15 PM
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@teflerinha I agree, but are there any that do this? #eltchat
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ElkySmith
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2:15 PM
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@esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat Absolutely.
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Marisa_C
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2:15 PM
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RT @nihangunday: @Marisa_C I guess it's because kids go beyond just working on books..#ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:16 PM
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@worldteacher @teflerinha But bloody expensive to produce I would guess :-) #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:16 PM
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@Shaunwilden I think pearson did sth called a flexicourse - too early - flopped #eltchat
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teflerinha
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2:16 PM
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@worldteacher Books can't do it, but teachers can :) if books aren't too prescriptive #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:16 PM
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@theteacherjames @Wiktor_K @OUPELTGlobal online updates would be really expensive! #eltchat ] Disagree. If I can do it so can big pubs :-)
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worldteacher
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2:16 PM
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RT @Shaunwilden: @teflerinha So what that means is a different book for each local context? #ELTchat > Now that would be good!!
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Shaunwilden
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2:16 PM
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RT @teflerinha: No not different book- but flexible and adaptable books - Is that really possible given the wide range of contexts? #eltchat
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hartle
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2:16 PM
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#eltchat ahh CBs I like to have one although then I find that it is like a brick round my neck
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BobK99
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2:16 PM
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RT @bunarart: #ELTchat accor. to a study conducted in Istanbul., sts are not aware enough of ELF, even ELT sts. .>'Enough'? Does st define?
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bunarart
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2:16 PM
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#ELTchat the reason behind it is CBs dont take ELF as a model, dict.s are not based on diff. varieties of Eng.
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worldteacher
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2:17 PM
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@teflerinha That's what I mean - are there any books which can be easily adapted for local use? #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:17 PM
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@worldteacher no idea just a though for keeping things up-to-date #eltchat
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hartle
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2:17 PM
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#eltchat the ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all the other resources
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:17 PM
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@esolcourses @theteacherjames @Wiktor_K If big pubs did it, the cost of materials would have to go up. At least initially #ELTchat
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michaelegriffin
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2:18 PM
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@worldteacher @teflerinha Hey all...what would it mean to be easily adaptable for local use? #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:18 PM
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@elawassell @teflerinha Well publishers do adapt for different markets but not too the extreme that I think we're talking about #eltchat
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worldteacher
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2:18 PM
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RT @Shaunwilden: @worldteacher @teflerinha But bloody expensive to produce I would guess :-) #eltchat >Yes, I expect so!
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:18 PM
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@theteacherjames @esolcourses @Wiktor_K Absolutely! #ELTchat
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aslibasarirunlu
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2:18 PM
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RT @hartle: #eltchat the ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all the other resources
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ElkySmith
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2:18 PM
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#eltchat Will the move to CEFR alignment lead to reduced reliance on CBs and more in-house development relevant to local context?
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rliberni
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2:18 PM
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@worldteacher I think all these must be possible if you sacrifice a bit of quality p'haps and go for content #eltchat
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worldteacher
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2:18 PM
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@teflerinha Here in Vietnam we spend a lot of time adapting CBs to make them less euro-centric #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:18 PM
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@Marisa_C think we are talking at cross purposes. I meant format, rather than teaching from a book #ELTChat
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theteacherjames
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2:18 PM
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@esolcourses @Wiktor_K @OUPELTGlobal At least that's what I heard somewhere... #eltchat
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BobK99
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2:18 PM
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@worldteacher @riberni #eltchat PoD teaching materials - nice idea but copyright wd be a nightmare! ;-)
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elawassell
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2:18 PM
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RT @Shaunwilden: @teflerinha So what that means is a different book for each local context? <-ideal and unreal? #ELTchat
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theteacherjames
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2:18 PM
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@esolcourses @Wiktor_K @OUPELTGlobal In theory, but I think the licensing, writing, sub-editing & licensing costs would be huge. #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:19 PM
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@esolcourses @theteacherjames Question then... how many CBs do you produce? #ELTchat
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Wiktor_K
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2:19 PM
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Apple's iBooks looks good, but hermetic - my guerrilla take on it: http://t.co/UZUo9zi3 - does @OUPELTGlobal work on these? #ELTchat
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ElkySmith
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2:19 PM
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@hartle @aslibasarirunlu #eltchat So not really a CB (as we know it) then?
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Marisa_C
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2:19 PM
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@esolcourses No i meant the format too - :-) #ELTChat
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hartle
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2:19 PM
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@Shaunwilden thnx Shaun, btw, any news abt the conference papers for Iatefl a propos of publishing? #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:19 PM
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@worldteacher there are books made specially for the Middle East - maybe it's possible for Asia too? Hey publishers? #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:19 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames once again, I disagree. if an online publisher with a staff of two can manage do it, so can anyone #ELTChat
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Shaunwilden
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2:19 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Publishing HAS become much more localised - diff books for Muslim countries for example #eltchat
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Marisa_C
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2:19 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Publishing HAS become much more localised - diff books for Muslim countries for example #ELTchat
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rliberni
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2:20 PM
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But do students like the feel of having a book for their course - I think they do #eltchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:20 PM
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@ElkySmith @hartle @aslibasarirunlu Is it right to talk abt cbk anyway - more like course materials since it usually so much more? #eltchat
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theteacherjames
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2:20 PM
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RT @worldteacher: @teflerinha Here in Vietnam we spend a lot of time adapting CBs to make them less euro-centric #eltchat
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hartle
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2:20 PM
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RT @worldteacher: @teflerinha Here in Vietnam we spend a lot of time adapting ... #eltchat we do that in Europe too !!! to make thm relevant
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worldteacher
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2:20 PM
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@rliberni Would be nice to see - just started using Garnet - made for Middle East, but more suited to us than the 'normal' CBs #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:20 PM
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RT @Shaunwilden: RT @Marisa_C: Publishing HAS become much more localised - diff books for Muslim countries for example #eltchat
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teflerinha
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2:21 PM
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@worldteacher Yes, bt same 4 mostcontexts(e.g. ESOL in UK). Isn't that part of using a CB- still less work thn starting frm scratch #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:21 PM
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@Wiktor_K Not yet. But it's something we're considering #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:21 PM
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@rliberni I'd say yes but some would argue that they are just used to having them #eltchat
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esolcourses
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2:21 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames we don't. It's all online. Point I' m making though is updating online mats is not that difficult #ELTChat
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englishraven
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2:21 PM
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Coursebook or no coursebook - what do learners prefer? Some of the answers might surprise you... http://t.co/VGIilV9M #eltchat
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vale360
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2:22 PM
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RT @hartle: #eltchat the ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all other resources
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teflerinha
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2:22 PM
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@hartle @worldteacher #eltchat Yes, that's my point. Every context is different, nothing will fit all perfectly
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worldteacher
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2:22 PM
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RT @teflerinha: Yes, bt same 4 mostcontexts(e.g. ESOL in UK). Isn't that part of using a CB-less work thn starting frm scratch #eltchat>true
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kevchanwow
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2:22 PM
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@hartle @Shaunwilden There are Japan "focused" CBs, but even localized CBs can't make the students suddenly want to talk. #ELTchat
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Wiktor_K
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2:22 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal Would love to see that happen for our iPad-sporting students! #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:22 PM
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@Shaunwilden good point I often give vocab books or even guide books but they do like something #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:22 PM
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@esolcourses @theteacherjames Maybe not in isolation, but updating online and print for over 2000 titles a year would be #ELTchat
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Tatiawa
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2:22 PM
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RT @NikPeachey: RT @IsilBoy: Motivate Online Learners 4 Easy Strategies http://t.co/b1E4mt1L #eltchat #edtech #elearn #ELT #EFL #web20
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elawassell
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2:22 PM
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Agree! RT @rliberni: But do students like the feel of having a book for their course - I think they do #ELTchat
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esolcourses
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2:22 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames unlike traditional print, you can edit it as and when required. No need to start 100% from scratch #ELTChat
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Marisa_C
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2:23 PM
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RT @hartle: #eltchat the ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all other resources
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Shaunwilden
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2:23 PM
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RT @rliberni: @Shaunwilden also it's helpful for ss to review or do extra work from the cb or workbook #eltchat
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OUPELTGlobal
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2:23 PM
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@Wiktor_K Well we already have a range of learning apps (mainly graded readers)... it's only a matter of time! #ELTchat
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ElkySmith
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2:23 PM
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@rliberni #eltchat Perhaps because that's what they expect but prefer to sacrifice CB for better teaching I think - they pay more for it!
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hartle
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2:23 PM
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#ELTchat it might mean: Unit 1 Getting to know you activities + integrating Google maps, activities, + language focus & urls etc.
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hartle
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2:24 PM
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RT @englishraven: Coursebook or no coursebook - what do learners prefer? http://t.co/7zco5dTr #eltchat
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elawassell
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2:24 PM
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@Shaunwilden @rliberni not only that - it gives them a sense of progress (even if linear and illusive)+ they have sth to revise wth #ELTchat
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Shaunwilden
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2:24 PM
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@aslibasarirunlu @ElkySmith @hartle Restricting or a useful starting point? #eltchat
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rliberni
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2:24 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: #eltchat the ideal CB wd be a structure with topics, ideas, suggestions pointing teachers & stds towards all other resources
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esolcourses
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2:24 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames still think it can be done :-) Simply use a subscrition model, rather than selling physical books #ELTChat
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rliberni
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2:24 PM
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@ElkySmith depends on the organisation I think #eltchat
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theteacherjames
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2:25 PM
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@teflerinha @hartle @worldteacher It's not realistic to expect a book to fit your situation. Adaption should be normal & encouraged #eltchat
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ElkySmith
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2:25 PM
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@Shaunwilden @aslibasarirunlu @hartle #eltchat Both…either…it depends!
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esolcourses
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2:25 PM
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@OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames fair enough... and I agree that there is still going to be a market in that respect for some time #ELTChat
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BobK99
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2:25 PM
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RT @rliberni: ... like the feel of having a book for thr crse - I think t[so] #eltchat > And some Ss (me, eg) depend on page layout for mem
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Marisa_C
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2:25 PM
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@TyKendall #eltchat 500 lines!!!
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Shaunwilden
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2:25 PM
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@TyKendall tiz yout topic!!!!! #eltchat
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TyKendall
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2:25 PM
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#eltchat AAAAAAAAAAAGH Fashionably late I'm calling it :-)
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:25 PM
|
@esolcourses @theteacherjames I take your point. Reality is, though, that many of our titles sell in countries where IT skills low #ELTchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:26 PM
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I think "English Upgrade" was made (pretty much specifically) for students in Asia http://t.co/207Gg52k #ELTchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:26 PM
|
Agree - adaptation a given - no perfect coursebook can exist by definition #Eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:26 PM
|
@esolcourses @theteacherjames For a long time to come, probably. However, we are moving towards more interactive online courses #ELTchat
|
hartle
|
2:26 PM
|
RT @Shaunwilden: @ElkySmith @hartle @aslibasarirunlu Is it right to talk ? #eltchat Yes maybe we should call them "Course Directions"
|
TyKendall
|
2:26 PM
|
#eltchat @Shaunwilden I know, the significant other is sick so I'm playing nurse/slave
|
teflerinha
|
2:26 PM
|
RT @teflerinha: @Shaunwilden @aslibasarirunlu @ElkySmith @hartle 4 me..starting point (though CB doesn't have to mean paper book) #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:27 PM
|
Ideally, we'd move to a mix of online and print, with online being more customizable to different teaching styles and cultures #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:27 PM
|
@theteacherjames @teflerinha @hartle @worldteacher Agree. Ts often assume the opposite is expected of them even when it isn't. #eltchat
|
esolcourses
|
2:27 PM
|
@Marisa_C not enough scope to clarify what I mean in 140 chrs, so lets just agree to disagree for now & discuss later :-) #ELTChat
|
Wiktor_K
|
2:27 PM
|
I'm with @hartle here: Publisher-provided "skeleton" + localized/owned/updated content = result. In few yrs, this shd be possible. #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:27 PM
|
@BobK99 good point I think #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:27 PM
|
@aslibasarirunlu @Shaunwilden @ElkySmith @hartle but isn't knowing the right content for a class part of what makes us teachers? #ELTchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:28 PM
|
Isn't the term 'coursebook' a bit of a misnomer if we're going to adapt & pick&choose frm it? Should it be a resource pack? #eltchat
|
cioccas
|
2:28 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Agree - adaptation a given - no perfect coursebook can exist by definition #Eltchat
|
worldteacher
|
2:28 PM
|
@theteacherjames I agree and I, too, have always adapted for local use but my point is that in Asia EVERYTHING has to be changed!#eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:28 PM
|
@esolcourses no worries :-) #ELTChat
|
rliberni
|
2:28 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Agree - adaptation a given - no perfect coursebook can exist by definition #Eltchat
|
hartle
|
2:28 PM
|
RT @theteacherjames: @teflerinha @hartle @worldteacher It's not realistic to expect... #eltchat True, but I often end up scrapping the book
|
theteacherjames
|
2:29 PM
|
@hartle @teflerinha @worldteacher The option to adapt should be built into the design of the book, but I don't think that happens. #eltchat
|
hartle
|
2:29 PM
|
but isn't knowing the right content for a class part of what makes us teachers? #ELTchat Yes, but some content must be relevant.
|
esolcourses
|
2:29 PM
|
RT @chiasuan Isn't the term 'coursebook' a bit of a misnomer if we're going to adapt & pick & choose? Should it be a resource pack? #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:29 PM
|
@Wiktor_K @hartle #eltchat A move towards this type of approach might help to change bad habits
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:29 PM
|
@chiasuan for once I agree with Chia :-) #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:29 PM
|
@kevchanwow Yes & no, there's more to it then simply the right content e.g. ensuring progress, syllabus, course requirements etc #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:29 PM
|
@worldteacher I can't believe it'll be like that for long. That's one huge market right there & money leads these decisions! #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
2:30 PM
|
@chiasuan Yes. Resource packs/learning materials can be quite different to COURSEbooks. I make the former now, not the latter. #eltchat
|
t4lk2pam
|
2:30 PM
|
True! RT @Marisa_C: Agree - adaptation a given - no perfect coursebook can exist by definition #Eltchat
|
worldteacher
|
2:30 PM
|
@theteacherjames True!! Just had some interest from Garnet seeing as we are placing a substantial order for the new academic year #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:31 PM
|
@kevchanwow but then can we expect relatively new teachers to be able to do all that? #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:31 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Can you move to another part of the question? It's clear that most here agree on a number of issues #ELTchat Are publishers out of touch?
|
hartle
|
2:31 PM
|
@chiasuan #ELTchat a "resource pack" for me is smthg a tracher uses, "course directions" shd be for teachers & stds maybe in a livebinder
|
Marisa_C
|
2:31 PM
|
Can you move to another part of the question? It's clear that most here agree on a number of issues #ELTchat Are publishers out of touch?
|
kevchanwow
|
2:31 PM
|
@Shaunwilden yep, hence that important word, "part". And all of those things need modification for each class. #ELTchat
|
Wiktor_K
|
2:32 PM
|
Ultimately, learners nowadays have a lot more choice & expectation. Learning plans come first, syllabuses next - CBs don't fit in! #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:32 PM
|
@Shaunwilden Yay! #IamsecretlyindesperateneedofShaunWilden'sapprovalcozIthinkheiscool #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:32 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Can you move to another part of the question? #ELTchat Are publishers out of touch?
|
harrisonmike
|
2:32 PM
|
What's the topic #eltchat? On my lunch break =)
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:32 PM
|
@theteacherjames Can you give me an example of the option to change being built in? I honestly think it is always built in any CB. #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:32 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Can you move to another part of the question? It's clear that most here agree on a number of issues #ELTchat Are publishers out of touch?
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:33 PM
|
Out of touch with teachers? Out of touch with theory? Out of touch with what the market dictates? Out of touch with what i want? #ELTchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:33 PM
|
@harrisonmike publishers and if they are out of touch is where we are at at this mo #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:33 PM
|
@michaelegriffin I don't think it's explicit. "Here's a video", "here's a listening", not "find a video relevant to your sts". #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
2:33 PM
|
The coursebook writers I know are constantly keeping up with research & new ideas I think it's lead times that cause this #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:33 PM
|
#eltchat Australian colleges want to align syll with CEFR -> requires careful analysis of learners' needs -> develop context-spec mats?
|
esolcourses
|
2:34 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: The writers we all know who come to Twitter seem to be up to speed but what about the others? And their editors? #ELTchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:34 PM
|
@Shaunwilden honestly, I forgot about less experienced teachers. OK, I can see the need for more targeted/localized CBs now. Thanks #ELTchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:34 PM
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@theteacherjames Ahhh cheers, I see what you mean....(not being cheeky) I just assumed that was part of my job to pick and choose #ELTchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:34 PM
|
@rliberni #eltchat And, to be fair, publishers are in my experience quite conservative..it's a big investment. Look at the COBUILD series :(
|
hartle
|
2:34 PM
|
#eltchat I think publishers are trying to update withmsome gd websites, but they have problems with differing activity types, copyright etc
|
Marisa_C
|
2:34 PM
|
The writers we all know who come to Twitter seem to be up to speed but what about the others? And their editors? #ELTchat
|
worldteacher
|
2:34 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Have you used English Upgrade? Have heard negative feedback. #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:34 PM
|
I strongly believe that grammar points should not be stuck in with each unit. It assumes that grammar learning is linear. #eltchat
|
Wiktor_K
|
2:35 PM
|
Impossible to be perfectly "up to speed" here - too many markets and course flavours. Find a niche or stay "general" & slower? #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:35 PM
|
@worldteacher I used it and I didn't love it. I did however like the fact it was made for Asia. (was teaching in Japan at the time) #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:35 PM
|
#eltchat Is the entire concept of CBs out of date and out of touch?
|
yearinthelifeof
|
2:35 PM
|
@chiasuan How would you approach grammar teaching, in that case? #ELTChat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:35 PM
|
I have heard some real horror stories about editors - :-) #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:35 PM
|
@michaelegriffin I agree, but I don't think they are designed with that in mind. That's a problem, I think. #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:35 PM
|
[Enables defensive mode] Constant contact w/ Ts, focus groups, rigorous testing, new authors, new titles, new tech, new approaches #ELTchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:35 PM
|
Out of touch. Perhaps. But maybe getting better. Though not all. Bigger pub houses slower to move. #eltchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:36 PM
|
RT @rliberni: Lets face it we here are not the mainstream & pubs need to sell books the market will dictate to a large extent #eltchat
|
hartle
|
2:36 PM
|
#eltchat difficult qus, as we cd ask 'are teachers up to date?" publishers provide whtbthe majority wants...
|
chiasuan
|
2:36 PM
|
I'd like2see more holistic lexico-grammar coverage. None of this:Here r the 5 uses of the present perfect types of confusing lists. #eltchat
|
worldteacher
|
2:36 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Good to know - thanks! #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:36 PM
|
@harrisonmike do DELTA publish coursebook materials? #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:36 PM
|
@kevchanwow I think that's a common thing - we experienced ones forget whats it like when we started :-) #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:36 PM
|
@theteacherjames Good point..I think that perspective would make for a big shift in the final products. #ELTchat
|
esolcourses
|
2:36 PM
|
RT @rliberni: Lets face it we here are not the mainstream & pubs need to sell books the market will dictate to a large extent #eltchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:36 PM
|
RT @OUPELTGlobal:Constant contact w/ Ts, focus gps, rigorous testing, new authors, titles, tech, new approaches #ELTchat My experience 2
|
rliberni
|
2:36 PM
|
Lets face it we here are not the mainstream & pubs need to sell books the market will dictate to a large extent #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:36 PM
|
DELTA Publishing good example of publisher that is up with teachers' needs and wants out of resource and methodology books #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:37 PM
|
@Marisa_C Not as far as I know. Although they address coursebook market - see Mario Rinvolucri 'Humanising your coursebook' #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:37 PM
|
@hartle I think there's a T training potential for CBs and TBs that may be missed often. #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:37 PM
|
RT @englishraven: My biggest concern about publishers is that they tend to talk to/base decisions on 'the choir'. #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:37 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Definitely, and not difficult to do I think. #ELTchat
|
englishraven
|
2:37 PM
|
My biggest concern about publishers is that they tend to talk to/base decisions on 'the choir'. #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:37 PM
|
RT @hartle: #eltchat difficult qus, as we cd ask 'are teachers up to date?" publishers provide whtbthe majority wants... gr8 point!
|
degrass_online
|
2:37 PM
|
RT @hartle (Sharon Hartle)#eltchat difficult qus, as we cd ask 'are teachers up to date?" publishers provide whtbthe majority wa... #tfb
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:37 PM
|
RT @rliberni: Lets face it we here are not the mainstream & pubs need 2 sell books the market will dictate to a large extent >right #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
2:38 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: @englishraven #eltchat that reminds me of a hopefully old school of publishers who referred to Ts as the 'punters"
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:38 PM
|
@BobK99 @Marisa_C I missed strike 1 #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:38 PM
|
@worldteacher My pleasure. I'd recommend checking it out. (Also glad you saw the tweet becuase it was in response to your comment) #ELTchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:38 PM
|
@englishraven #eltchat that reminds me of a hopefully old school of publishers who referred to Ts as the 'punters"
|
BobK99
|
2:38 PM
|
RT @BobK99: @Marisa_C Lead times mean books necessarily 'out of touch' - still useful though. #ELTchat Strike 2 :-)
|
chiasuan
|
2:38 PM
|
@yearinthelifeof Grammar points can b in a diff section at the back of the book. As it emerges, teacher can use the relevant parts. #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:38 PM
|
@englishraven The 'choir'? #ELTchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:39 PM
|
My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:39 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal #ELTchat I ain't telling .....
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:39 PM
|
@Marisa_C Not from us, I hope ;) #ELTchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:39 PM
|
@harrisonmike @chiasuan Isn't it always pretty useless?! #eltchat
|
dincherdemir
|
2:39 PM
|
RT @IsilBoy: Motivate Online Learners With 4 Easy Strategies http://t.co/CcmenCL0 #eltchat #edtech
|
hartle
|
2:39 PM
|
#eltchat sorry everyone, have to go and check in (in Gatwick Airport). Great discussion. Catch U all tonight :-)
|
BobK99
|
2:39 PM
|
@Shaunwilden #eltchat It snuck under the radar - no chars left to fess up!
|
Marisa_C
|
2:39 PM
|
So if 'the punters' are not trained, better produce books for the great unwashed #ELTchat - harsh? I've heard this!!!!!
|
harrisonmike
|
2:39 PM
|
@chiasuan I'd like this. Esp it would be much more useful in ESOL where decontextualised grammar/vocab practice is really useless #eltchat
|
Wiktor_K
|
2:40 PM
|
Folks, off to deal with my students and teachers now - see you again tonight! #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:40 PM
|
@harrisonmike Problem is,if grammr is in a section at the bk of a book,the practice exercises won't be able2use a topic as context. #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:40 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Yes, is it actually OUR perception turns it on it's head a bit #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:40 PM
|
@michaelegriffin @worldteacher From my exp, Oxford makes county-specific 'English File' books. Saw an elem one for Spanish market. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:40 PM
|
@michaelegriffin And yet that is just how many schools use them #eltchat
|
pickuplines2000
|
2:40 PM
|
RT @hartle (Sharon Hartle)#eltchat difficult qus, as we cd ask 'are teachers up to date?" publishers provide whtbthe majority wa... #tfb
|
teflerinha
|
2:40 PM
|
RT @michaelegriffin: My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat Yes, agree.
|
englishraven
|
2:40 PM
|
RT @michaelegriffin: My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
2:40 PM
|
RT @michaelegriffin: My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat gr8 pt!
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:40 PM
|
RT @michaelegriffin: My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:41 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Shame that in many contexts the books go hand in hand with the course. 'Welcome to X school, here is your Headway' #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:41 PM
|
RT @michaelegriffin: My thought is that CBs are only out of touch if we think of them as THe curriculum or THE course #ELTchat
|
t4lk2pam
|
2:41 PM
|
#eltchat hi everyone! I guess publishers & CBs cannot compete with the continuous updated info of the web,takes a long time to publish a CB
|
rliberni
|
2:41 PM
|
RT @englishraven: @OUPELTGlobal You're on #eltchat in a regular and participatory way - unlike most of your competitors. It bodes well! :-)
|
worldteacher
|
2:41 PM
|
@harrisonmike Yes, used them in Italy - don't think they're available for Asia, though! #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
2:41 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal You're on #eltchat in a regular and participatory way - unlike most of your competitors. It bodes well! :-)
|
rliberni
|
2:41 PM
|
RT @kevchanwow: I've only had good experiences with publishers. They want to me to keep buying their books after all. #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:41 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Agree - and that is largely the problem with CBs, how they are used. #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:41 PM
|
I've only had good experiences with publishers. They want to me to keep buying their books after all. #ELTchat
|
englishraven
|
2:42 PM
|
@harrisonmike You're right. I almost opened my own school in Korea called 'Boost!' And it would have worked, too! #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:42 PM
|
@teflerinha @chiasuan *especially* useless =) #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:42 PM
|
@harrisonmike agreed the book IS the syllabus esp for exam classes #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:42 PM
|
@michaelegriffin @Shaunwilden Trouble is, many schools have no choice. In some countries, they ARE the ministry-approved syllabus #ELTchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:42 PM
|
@harrisonmike *shudders.
|
MrChrisJWilson
|
2:42 PM
|
@michaelegriffin I guess the name COURSEbook helps to create that paradigm #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:42 PM
|
@Shaunwilden Agreed... I am not a huge coursebook fan but think the biggest problem is when T's feel compelled to use like that #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:43 PM
|
@englishraven Let's hope so :) #ELTchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:43 PM
|
RT @MrChrisJWilson: @michaelegriffin guess th name COURSEbook helps to create tht paradigm #eltchat Yes, but pubs generally use Students' Bk
|
theteacherjames
|
2:43 PM
|
@chiasuan @harrisonmike Suppose suggestions for this problem could be included in the teacher's book? #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:43 PM
|
@harrisonmike @michaelegriffin It's v. important for DoSes to be explicit to Ts about how they expect CBs to be used #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:44 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal in many schools too & it makes sure that everyone delivers the syllabus - can't blame them #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:44 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal @michaelegriffin fair point, I was thinking of schools I visit that dont realise that syllabus&cbk are not the same #eltchat
|
pennyhands
|
2:44 PM
|
Sorry to just come in now! As an editor, all v interesting #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:44 PM
|
There is a vicious cycle in schools which (with due respect to publishers present) pubs can take advbantage of #ELTchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:44 PM
|
RT @ElkySmith: @harrisonmike @michaelegriffin It's v. important for DoSes to be explicit to Ts about how they expect CBs to be used #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
2:44 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal That's where I think publishers can be a major force for good - if they really try to be (ministry-approved, etc.) #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:44 PM
|
@chiasuan Grammar and lexis and skills are best integrated in a particular way of teaching, and it's not book-based ;-) #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:45 PM
|
@michaelegriffin @Shaunwilden @chiasuan @englishraven Interesting point. Use the influence with ministries to direct the content #ELTchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:45 PM
|
@michaelegriffin @OUPELTGlobal @Shaunwilden It all starts high up.Esp in systems where sts r just studyin2pass exams & not 2 speak. #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:45 PM
|
@ElkySmith @michaelegriffin Good point #eltchat
|
BobK99
|
2:45 PM
|
RT @rliberni: @harrisonmike agreed the book IS the syllabus esp for exam classes #eltchat >Couldn't STAND teaching from such a book! ;-
|
rliberni
|
2:45 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: There is a vicious cycle in schools which (with due respect to publishers present) pubs can take advbantage of #ELTchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:45 PM
|
@englishraven #eltchat Agree fully - but even pubs ran out of charity trusts think megabacuks - their moral culture must change
|
harrisonmike
|
2:45 PM
|
@englishraven I'd work at that school! We could always ditch the book if we wanted, right?? ;-) #eltchat
|
worldteacher
|
2:45 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: There is a vicious cycle in schools which (with due respect to publishers present) pubs can take advbantage of #ELTchat>Agreed
|
educlick
|
2:46 PM
|
RT @cybraryman1: #eltchat NOW "Do ELT publishers have too much influence and are they out of touch with reality? Do they lag behind the times #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:46 PM
|
In fact teachers can INSIST or create a movement through social media blogs twitter that they need to change #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:46 PM
|
@esolcourses @englishraven Wouldn't miss it for the world :) #ELTchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:46 PM
|
@ElkySmith @michaelegriffin Also, what about how sts expect them to be used? #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:46 PM
|
@Marisa_C this also makes commercial sense and this is about business primarily #eltchat
|
esolcourses
|
2:46 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal @englishraven agree with Jason that it bodes well. Good to see you taking part in this :-) #ELTChat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:47 PM
|
Shudder at the resources, monetary & physical, that schools splash out on 4students. Book per st, new book if they go up 2 nxt lvl #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:47 PM
|
So far we've talked about coursebooks. What about resource books, webinars, talks, graded readers, online content, T resources etc? #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:47 PM
|
@Marisa_C we can vote with our feet if we don't buy then they will change but it's a BIG task #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
2:47 PM
|
@Marisa_C Yes, I want to see publishers use their influence to encourage and facilitate change - that IS market-driving/driven! #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:47 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: In fact teachers can INSIST or create a movement through social media blogs twitter that they need to change >love it #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:47 PM
|
@harrisonmike @michaelegriffin #eltchat Yes, also important: DoS -> Ts -> Ss and marketing -> agents -> Ss
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:48 PM
|
@chiasuan @michaelegriffin @Shaunwilden @englishraven It can't hurt! #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
2:48 PM
|
RT @englishraven: @harrisonmike Oh, absolutely. In my school 'Boost!' would be the objective/philosophy, not a coursebook. #eltchat
|
MrChrisJWilson
|
2:48 PM
|
#eltchat devils advocate moment, students books do cover the 'skills' needed for each level. That makes them courses..right
|
englishraven
|
2:48 PM
|
@harrisonmike Oh, absolutely. In my school 'Boost!' would be the objective/philosophy, not a coursebook. #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:48 PM
|
@englishraven @Marisa_C That sort of change IS big, but ultimately for the good of the learners AND teachers #ELTchat
|
pennyhands
|
2:48 PM
|
@harrisonmike @chiasuan I think a bk wld be helpful for teachers, showing how to integrate grammar and lexis focus in a lesson #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:48 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal @michaelegriffin @Shaunwilden @englishraven Will ministries (&publishrs) b convincd by hard evidnce frm SLA research? #eltchat
|
MrChrisJWilson
|
2:49 PM
|
#eltchat I believe that was a 'flame comment' or some internet term like that ;-)
|
t4lk2pam
|
2:49 PM
|
RT @harrisonmike: @ElkySmith @michaelegriffin Also, what about how sts expect them to be used? #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
2:49 PM
|
RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat devils advocate moment, students books do cover the 'skills' needed for each level. That makes them courses..right
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:49 PM
|
RT @harrisonmike @ElkySmith Also, what about how SS expect them 2 b used? > very good point but teachers have 2 make some decisions #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:50 PM
|
@t4lk2pam @harrisonmike @michaelegriffin #eltchat The assumption is that Ss have paid for them so they have to be used - but how much?
|
educlick
|
2:50 PM
|
#ELTchat Publishers are not taking all the possibilities of digital publishing, not even by far, they want to do it slowly to get max benefs
|
englishraven
|
2:50 PM
|
There is a massive gap between what many writers/editors know/believe and what they produce. There is a moral gap there. #eltchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:50 PM
|
@pennyhands @chiasuan My book-based teaching was a lot worse at integrating grammar/lexis focus than without. But maybe thats exp? #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:50 PM
|
RT @chiasuan Will ministries (&publishrs) b convincd by hard evidnce frm SLA research? >IMO Short term no-long term yes($ talks) #ELTchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:50 PM
|
@pennyhands @harrisonmike Sure, a book can help,but teacher trainin has got 2 b addressed.Train teachers to not just 'turn & burn'. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:51 PM
|
RT @kevchanwow: Sorry, can't get on the bash the publishers bandwagon. Teaching starts with the teacher knowing what&how to teach. #ELTchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:51 PM
|
@chiasuan meaning if the "punters" (parents?kids?)aren't happy then changes will have 2 come or people will simply find other ways #ELTchat
|
teflerinha
|
2:51 PM
|
@harrisonmike @pennyhands @chiasuan Personally, I do think that CBs can help novice teachers..helped me! #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:51 PM
|
Sorry, can't get on the bash the publishers bandwagon. Teaching starts with the teacher knowing what and how to teach. #ELTchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:51 PM
|
@michaelegriffin It feels like such a sell-out:creating syllabuses that goes against research findings of how lang are learnt! #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:51 PM
|
@educlick I disagree. I think we want to do it RIGHT #ELTchat
|
englishraven
|
2:52 PM
|
@kevchanwow Lets not mistake critical review/discussion automatically with publisher-bashing bandwagons, shall we? #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:52 PM
|
RT @chiasuan: @teflerinha @harrisonmike @pennyhands I'm not against books per se, but how they are used is my issue. #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:52 PM
|
@englishraven It's often overly dictated by what the 'norm' is. Restrictive processes, 'set in our ways' attitude. Hard to overcome #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:52 PM
|
@teflerinha Me too but I wonder now whether it would have helped me more to develop ability earlier to do without them. #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:52 PM
|
@teflerinha @harrisonmike @pennyhands I'm not against books per se, but how they are used is my issue. #eltchat
|
esolcourses
|
2:53 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: I think though that publishers cannot be blamed for the huge numbers of untrained blind CB following Ts #eltchat ] agree
|
teflerinha
|
2:53 PM
|
@Shaunwilden @ElkySmith I used to spend all weekend preparing as it was! #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:53 PM
|
@kevchanwow love ur thinking mine is something like of course (pun) a coursebook is not gonna b 4 everyone so we can't expect it. #ELTchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:53 PM
|
I think though that publishers cannot be blamed for the huge numbers of untrained blind CB following Ts - Ts and leaders are #eltchat
|
pennyhands
|
2:53 PM
|
@chiasuan @teflerinha @harrisonmike Sure, I was thinking of a teacher's resource book #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:53 PM
|
@ElkySmith @teflerinha Would you have coped on a full timetable of classes without one? #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:53 PM
|
@michaelegriffin But 'punters' also need re-education becoz a lot of them are just looking 4 what they r familiar with. #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:54 PM
|
@chiasuan Right on! #eltchat Not sure where it starts but here in Korea I know parents aren't happy with Ss' learning and improvement
|
harrisonmike
|
2:54 PM
|
@chiasuan @teflerinha @pennyhands All I know is that I struggled using cbks in my first year in ESOL. Found it utterly uninspiring. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:54 PM
|
@teflerinha @ElkySmith yes me too still do n fact cos have too many sources to look at these days :-) #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
2:54 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal Yes, 'compromise' is one of the most commonly used words in ELT publishing. compromise can become compromiseD... :-) #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
2:54 PM
|
Teachers & leaders should be (i meant) #ELTchat - but my modality fell apart :-)
|
chiasuan
|
2:54 PM
|
@harrisonmike @pennyhands I've heard of teachers who spend 3 mins of the tasks in Cutting Edge by 2hrs on the lexical/grammar prep. #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:55 PM
|
@harrisonmike @chiasuan @teflerinha @pennyhands Me too, and look where that led us! Should we be grateful? ;-) #eltchat
|
MrChrisJWilson
|
2:55 PM
|
Publishers have a hard job, need and want to make good material...need to make money and sell them. Sometimes the same. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:55 PM
|
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @englishraven True. It's a balance between what can be done in the time and ensuring the quality of materials #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:55 PM
|
@englishraven True. It's a balance between what can be done in the time and ensuring the quality of materials #ELTchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:56 PM
|
@theteacherjames @chiasuan @teflerinha @pennyhands Yep. I am. Taken a while but I'm happy with my practice now =) #eltchat
|
mskhogg
|
2:56 PM
|
#eltchat have to agree with @chiasuan re how books are used. Linear doesn't work. Even books try to recycle but ineffective.
|
chiasuan
|
2:56 PM
|
@michaelegriffin I think at the end of the day,if 'punters' see real progress in their English,then they'll b convinced regardless. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
2:56 PM
|
Ok 5 minutes left any more wise words #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:56 PM
|
@t4lk2pam Also, what about how sts expect them to be used? #eltchat > Again, gr8 point. This is where Im quite happy to put on my expert hat
|
educlick
|
2:56 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal #eltchat Sorry, i'm pretty sure YOU do care, but most of publishers don't, its a reality!! Like Apple and biggest ones...
|
ElkySmith
|
2:56 PM
|
@Shaunwilden @teflerinha It's a massive challenge regardless I think. #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:57 PM
|
RT @MeghanBeler: @teflerinha @harrisonmike @pennyhands @chiasuan I agree and in many ways CBs are designed to help novice teachers. #ELTchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:57 PM
|
Despite my reservations regarding coursebooks, I have to say that Resource Books for Teachers are fantastic. #creditwhereitsdue #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:57 PM
|
@educlick Ah I see! Well, kind of you to say. You're right though, bigger money-making pubs are definitely out for the quick buck! #ELTchat
|
MeghanBeler
|
2:57 PM
|
@teflerinha @harrisonmike @pennyhands @chiasuan I agree and in many ways CBs are designed to help novice teachers. #eltchat
|
educlick
|
2:57 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal #eltchat Apple used the "ibook2" to fake its competitors hiding features they use afterwards, for example. Not nice!!
|
rliberni
|
2:58 PM
|
RT @OUPELTGlobal: Yep! RT @MrWriteCzech: #eltchat Don't expect CBs to disappear in the near future. Publishers are very concerned about digital piracy.
|
englishraven
|
2:58 PM
|
RT @theteacherjames: I have to say that Resource Books for Teachers are fantastic. >Agree. They're ohso unprofitable for pubs, tho. #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:58 PM
|
Extensive reading and graded readers are at least one point where research and publishing seem to be working towards the same ends. #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
2:58 PM
|
@theteacherjames not strictly coursebooks I guess #eltchat I like them too
|
worldteacher
|
2:58 PM
|
RT @theteacherjames: Despite my reservations regarding coursebooks, I have to say that Resource Books for Ts are fantastic. #eltchat >Agreed
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
2:58 PM
|
Yep! RT @MrWriteCzech: #eltchat Don't expect CBs to disappear in the near future. Publishers are very concerned about digital piracy.
|
mskhogg
|
2:58 PM
|
#eltchat I think students expect the model they've been shown over and over. Doesn't mean it works best.
|
teflerinha
|
2:58 PM
|
@MeghanBeler @harrisonmike @pennyhands @chiasuan Yes, which is why too many diff options for exploiting mats not given I think. #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:58 PM
|
@MeghanBeler @teflerinha @harrisonmike @pennyhands Are course books only for helping novice teachrs? Do publishers see it that way? #eltchat
|
kevchanwow
|
2:58 PM
|
Just wanted to go back to the fact that CBs aren't the only kind of texts. I'm thankful every day for my graded reader library. #ELTchat
|
MrWriteCzech
|
2:58 PM
|
#eltchat Don't expect CBs to disappear in the near future. Publishers are very concerned about digital piracy.
|
englishraven
|
2:59 PM
|
@theteacherjames I think the resource books, supplements, workshops, conferences etc. help pubs to hold onto moral compass :-) #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
2:59 PM
|
@chiasuan agree 100% and think it starts with the T being confident about choices (or at least thinking it through and making them) #ELTchat
|
ElkySmith
|
2:59 PM
|
#eltchat CBs themselves are not the problem - it's how they are used. DoSes need to be clear about use and comm that to Ts and then to Ss
|
teflerinha
|
2:59 PM
|
@chiasuan @MeghanBeler @harrisonmike @pennyhands Not only, but, yes, try not 2 assume t well trained and has excellent lang skills #eltchat
|
BobK99
|
2:59 PM
|
@educlick #ELTchat [Re pubr's slow to exploit new opp'ties]Tough on them! - Just leaves the markt open fr strt-ups & 1-persn-bands #ELTchat
|
harrisonmike
|
2:59 PM
|
@chiasuan @MeghanBeler @teflerinha @pennyhands Well theyre not for helping novice sts - way 2 much going on on a double page spread #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
2:59 PM
|
@rliberni Not at all, but this chat is about the publishers not coursebooks! #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
2:59 PM
|
@mskhogg Thank you! The teacher is a human bein who can adapt & tailor the lesson to suit the students. Books shld only supplement. #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:00 PM
|
@englishraven @theteacherjames Is that such a bad thing? :) #ELTchat
|
rliberni
|
3:00 PM
|
@theteacherjames you're right (got carried away with the CB bashing) I think the non cbs have more value #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
3:00 PM
|
@englishraven The world is upside down, as usual. #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
3:00 PM
|
@michaelegriffin And that comes from teacher training, doesn't it? Giving trainees opportunities to make choices, make mistakes... #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
3:01 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal No, not at all. I think it is good/important. #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
3:01 PM
|
Ok time for a volunteer for the summary....#eltchat
|
englishraven
|
3:01 PM
|
@theteacherjames I always tell colleagues to buy resource books and not try to get them as freebies. Ts have to support them! #eltchat
|
Jmahaffey4
|
3:01 PM
|
RT @CliveSir: A Must Read: #iTDi, working with difficult students http://t.co/XVxJvChG #edchat #eltchat #elemchat #pypchat #ukedchat #ozteachers
|
theteacherjames
|
3:01 PM
|
@englishraven I suppose there could be an element of that. Better take advantage of it, I guess! #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:02 PM
|
@englishraven All I can say is we're trying to do more of that - free webinars, local seminars, free resources, more T resource bks #ELTchat
|
englishraven
|
3:02 PM
|
@theteacherjames It's such an intrinsic part of our 'industry' - like clothing. Can we ever discuss/debate it enough? #eltchat
|
michaelegriffin
|
3:02 PM
|
@theteacherjames valiant effort. #ELTchat
|
theteacherjames
|
3:02 PM
|
@englishraven Shame they're so damn expensive (but I understand why). #eltchat
|
rliberni
|
3:02 PM
|
@theteacherjames we're a bunch of moaning minnies at heart! #eltchat
|
chiasuan
|
3:02 PM
|
I saw a coursebk explainin the present perfect:'The present perfect is usd when one has done somethin'! &we learn frm these things? #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
3:02 PM
|
@rliberni My attempt to steer the conversation away from CB's for a bit failed miserably. T's love criticising CB's! #eltchat
|
englishraven
|
3:03 PM
|
RT @ElkySmith: @OUPELTGlobal And doing it well :-) #eltchat >Agree.
|
theteacherjames
|
3:03 PM
|
@rliberni We're not that bad! But the CB is a special subject for us lot. #eltchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:03 PM
|
@ElkySmith Well thank you :D #ELTchat
|
worldteacher
|
3:03 PM
|
Thanks to the mods @Marisa_C , @Shaunwilden @rliberni for a great #eltchat
|
BobK99
|
3:03 PM
|
@theteacherjames It was too much - only 10 mins left at your first attempt! ;-) #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
3:03 PM
|
@OUPELTGlobal And doing it well :-) #eltchat
|
educlick
|
3:03 PM
|
UNETE: Hablando de la publicaciΓ³n digital en #ELTchat ahora mismo // talking about digital publishing at #ELTchat right now JOIN US!
|
theteacherjames
|
3:03 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Thanks! #winsomelosesome #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:04 PM
|
Well, thanks for an invigorating #ELTchat everyone. I hope we held our own :) Til next time...
|
BobK99
|
3:04 PM
|
RT @worldteacher: Thanks to the mods @Marisa_C , @Shaunwilden @rliberni for a great #eltchat . Ditto - bye!
|
worldteacher
|
3:04 PM
|
My #eltchat topic tonight, but won't be able to stay up to 3am - sorry!! Gutted! will look forward to the summary!
|
theteacherjames
|
3:04 PM
|
@BobK99 I wouldn't have stood a chance earlier! Bashing coursebooks is a favourite subject. #eltchat
|
mskhogg
|
3:04 PM
|
#eltchat it's a bit of a catch22 to get out of the cycle, but wouldn't occam say the solution is simpler than a ton of materials?
|
kevchanwow
|
3:05 PM
|
Fascinating #ELTchat. Thanks mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni ...but still wondering how I ended up defending publishers...#ELTchat
|
mskhogg
|
3:05 PM
|
#eltchat thanks everyone!bglad Ifinally caught it live!
|
Shaunwilden
|
3:05 PM
|
@worldteacher Is there anything in particular you want to be raised? #eltchat
|
teflerinha
|
3:05 PM
|
#eltchat Thnk there is assumption here tht all teachers really know what they're doing. I have obs plenty who are lost in sea of worksheets.
|
theteacherjames
|
3:05 PM
|
@englishraven I don't think the limit will ever be reached! #eltchat
|
ElkySmith
|
3:06 PM
|
#eltchat The question was about power…I think publishers probably have too much but only as much as we give them.
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:06 PM
|
@englishraven Thank you kindly, Jason! #ELTchat
|
OUPELTGlobal
|
3:06 PM
|
RT @englishraven: Just want to call out @OUPELTGlobal - what an excellent and open-minded participant in #eltchat! Put your competitors to shame... :-)
|
englishraven
|
3:06 PM
|
Just want to call out @OUPELTGlobal - what an excellent and open-minded participant in #eltchat! Put your competitors to shame... :-)
|
MeghanBeler
|
3:06 PM
|
@teflerinha #eltchat really good point, now if we could just get them to pick up that TB!
|
michaelegriffin
|
3:07 PM
|
What a fun/interesting chat. Thanks to all and especially mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni #ELTchat
|
ELT_T2W
|
3:07 PM
|
#ELTchat Just missed it. Drat! Looking forward to the summary.
|
Marisa_C
|
3:07 PM
|
@kevchanwow #ELTchat #ELTchat lol I don't know either! I think we we re quite soft on them publishers!!! :-D
|
MeghanBeler
|
3:07 PM
|
RT @englishraven: Just want to call out @OUPELTGlobal - what an excellent and open-minded participant in #eltchat! Put your competitors to shame... :-)
|
michaelegriffin
|
3:07 PM
|
@mskhogg Nice to see you. #ELTchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
3:08 PM
|
tonight's #eltchat is How to analyse & re-stage activities to make them more learner centred.
|
esolcourses
|
3:08 PM
|
Thanks for another great #ELTchat , and to mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni ! gtg - catch you later :-)
|
rliberni
|
3:08 PM
|
RT @Shaunwilden: Volunteer!!!!!!!!!!! #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
3:08 PM
|
RT @Shaunwilden: Volunteer!!!!!!!!!!! #eltchat
|
teflerinha
|
3:08 PM
|
@MeghanBeler These are ts working without a CB- just (randomly)printing worksheets off the internet #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
3:08 PM
|
Volunteer!!!!!!!!!!! #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
3:09 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: RT @Shaunwilden: Volunteer!!!!!!!!!!! #eltchat I'm getting the transcript - who shall I send it to???????
|
michaelegriffin
|
3:09 PM
|
RTMarisa_C @Shaunwilden: Volunteer!!!!!!!!!!! > Does this mean you got one or you need one? I could do it in 8 days or so. #ELTchat
|
chiasuan
|
3:10 PM
|
Here're the findings to the student questionnaires for the #Dogme vs Coursebk Teach-Off. http://t.co/j9SaZ07S #eltchat
|
educlick
|
3:10 PM
|
RT @hartle: RT @englishraven: Coursebook or no coursebook - what do learners prefer? http://t.co/7zco5dTr #eltchat
|
Marisa_C
|
3:10 PM
|
@michaelegriffin #ELTchat haven't got one yet - 8 days? oh well, we've had to wait even longer for some!!!
|
phil3wade
|
3:11 PM
|
RT @chiasuan: Here're the findings to the student questionnaires for the #Dogme vs Coursebk Teach-Off. http://t.co/j9SaZ07S #eltchat
|
Shaunwilden
|
3:11 PM
|
@michaelegriffin Yay a volunteer :-) Thanks #eltchat
|
educlick
|
3:12 PM
|
RT @chiasuan: Here're the findings to the student questionnaires for the #Dogme vs Coursebk Teach-Off. http://t.co/j9SaZ07S #eltchat
|
theteacherjames
|
3:12 PM
|
Thnx to the mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni for a great #eltchat & to @OUPELTGlobal for representing the ELT publishing industry!
|
Marisa_C
|
3:12 PM
|
Can we please announce that next week we won't be able to run #ELTchat 'cos we're going to the #ELTons thing! to be livestreamed we hear
|
EvaMaierova
|
3:13 PM
|
#ELTchat Ts+Ss need CBs (@ least @ our uni) but they become obsolete very quickly, esp. bizenglish
|
theteacherjames
|
3:14 PM
|
New #eltchat Podcast Uncut. @vickyloras speaks to @yitzha_sarwono: http://t.co/lcWQMs9U
|
chiasuan
|
3:14 PM
|
RT @theteacherjames: Thnx to the mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni for a great #eltchat & to @OUPELTGlobal for representing the ELT publishing industry!
|
michaelegriffin
|
3:15 PM
|
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden I can do it this time next week but of course if someone else wants to do it b4 that that is fine with me #ELTchat
|
theteacherjames
|
3:15 PM
|
RT @Marisa_C: Can we please announce that next week we won't be able to run #ELTchat 'cos we're going to the #ELTons thing! to be livestreamed we hear
|
Marisa_C
|
3:15 PM
|
Thank you all who joined us for this #ELTchat ! We learn a lot from each and every one of you every week - so it's worth the hard work! :-D
|
esolcourses
|
3:16 PM
|
RT @Sharonzspace: Contribute To The Next ESL/EFL/ELL Blog Carnival! http://t.co/ZYEQo6Lo #ELTCHAT #EAPCHAT #EDCHAT
|
chiasuan
|
3:16 PM
|
@Marisa_C @ShellTerrell @Shaunwilden Congrats once again for the ELTon nomination! I will miss #eltchat next week!
|
statweestics
|
3:17 PM
|
#eltchat is getting popular, +800% the last hour : http://t.co/7YCTbQba
|
englishraven
|
3:17 PM
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RT @Larryferlazzo: RT @esolcourses: RT @Sharonzspace: Contribute To The Next ESL/EFL/ELL Blog Carnival! http://t.co/pzm7we9H #ELTCHAT #EAPCHAT #EDCHAT
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Marisa_C
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3:17 PM
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@chiasuan #eltchat can you come to the pub after?
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englishraven
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3:17 PM
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@educlick Thank you too Rafa. #eltchat
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Larryferlazzo
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3:17 PM
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RT @esolcourses: RT @Sharonzspace: Contribute To The Next ESL/EFL/ELL Blog Carnival! http://t.co/pzm7we9H #ELTCHAT #EAPCHAT #EDCHAT
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Shaunwilden
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3:17 PM
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RT @Marisa_C: Can we please announce that next week we won't be able to run #ELTchat 'cos we're going to the #ELTons thing!
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ElkySmith
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3:18 PM
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RT @theteacherjames: Thnx to the mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni for a great #eltchat & to @OUPELTGlobal for representing the ELT publishing industry!
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ElkySmith
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3:19 PM
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RT @chiasuan: Here're the findings to the student questionnaires for the #Dogme vs Coursebk Teach-Off. http://t.co/j9SaZ07S #eltchat
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ELTchat
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3:20 PM
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Sorry I won't be around for an #ELTchat next week #ELTchat I will be at the #ELTons ceremory with my moderators! :-D
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rliberni
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3:20 PM
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RT @statweestics: #eltchat is getting popular, +800% the last hour : http://t.co/7YCTbQba
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rliberni
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3:21 PM
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RT @englishraven: New/more stuff now available on my English Oz page! http://t.co/jfiMsFvr #esl #eltchat
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englishraven
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3:21 PM
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New/more stuff now available on my English Oz page! http://t.co/jfiMsFvr #esl #eltchat
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englishraven
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3:22 PM
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RT @aClilToClimb: What makes a lesson great Pt 4 by @AnthonyGaughan http://t.co/Ne6e05gK #eltchat #edchat > Fab, as usual :)
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aClilToClimb
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3:22 PM
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What makes a lesson great Pt 4 by @AnthonyGaughan http://t.co/Ne6e05gK #eltchat #edchat > Fab, as usual :)
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worldteacher
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3:22 PM
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RT @englishraven: Just want to call out @OUPELTGlobal - what an excellent and open-minded participant in #eltchat! Put your competitors to shame... :-)
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rliberni
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3:22 PM
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RT @ELTchat: Sorry I won't be around for an #ELTchat next week #ELTchat I will be at the #ELTons ceremory with my moderators! :-D
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