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Is Globish and International English or Standard English the answer What variety should we teach

Page history last edited by Shaun 11 years, 10 months ago

This is the transcript of eltchat from 09.05.2012 on Is Globish and 'International English" or Standard English the answer? What variety should we teach?

 

username time status
   
 
Shaunwilden 9:03 PM RT @naomishema: Can somebody define international english please #eltchat
naomishema 9:03 PM Can somebody define international english please #eltchat
elawassell 9:03 PM Good evening all! :-)
TyKendall 9:03 PM #ELTCHAT What the hell is "International English"? Simplified English?
SueAnnan 9:04 PM @Shaunwilden  I think ELF has its place, but not to teach it #eltchat
TyKendall 9:04 PM #ELTCHAT I'm an ELF-denier
SueAnnan 9:04 PM I don't think we can teach it if our students have exams to do, as the exam boards have expectations #ELTchat
SophiaMav 9:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @naomishema: Can somebody define international english please #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:04 PM @Marisa_C Kalispera Marisa twice on #eltchat today :) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:04 PM @SueAnnan Are you an ELF believer? #eltchat
hartle 9:04 PM #eltchat I remember Barbara Seidlhofer saying Glb. English a description of usage not a variety.
Marisa_C 9:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @naomishema: Can somebody define international english please #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:05 PM RT @eLeafy: @Marisa_C I believe what varieties of English we teach is down to the student group and their needs .#eltchat
bcinfrance 9:05 PM And is there really a difference between "basic, simplified, clear English" and "International English"? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:05 PM @TyKendall cool #ELTchat - thought you should be here
steve_muir 9:05 PM @SueAnnan agreed #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:05 PM is Intl' English the same as ELF (English as Lingua Franca? how do we define it?
eLeafy 9:05 PM @Marisa_C I believe what varieties of English we teach is down to the student group and their needs .#eltchat
SophiaMav 9:05 PM RT @SueAnnan: I dont think we can teach it if our students have exams to do, as the exam boards have expectations #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:05 PM @SophiaMav @Shaunwilden @naomishema A range of English varieties? #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:05 PM @TyKendall Me too though I have wobbled a bit #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:05 PM @Shaunwilden  #eltchat  International English http://t.co/7z6Po2hq
Marisa_C 9:06 PM @Shaunwilden I know it also as Standard English, the official variety which is compehensible to all  #eltchat
hartle 9:06 PM #eltchat I think acceptance of different usages important but impossible to teach. 2many varieties
TyKendall 9:06 PM #ELTCHAT do students actually want ELF? Most students I meet want to learn/speak American English (some want British, but a minority)
SueAnnan 9:06 PM I have many Czech students. The world will not end if they don't use articles IMO.#ELTChat
Shaunwilden 9:06 PM @Marisa_C that wiki page defines it in so many ways from ELF to common #eltchat
hartle 9:07 PM #eltchat so this means encouraging learners to search for own "English identity" not teaching a mythical "Globlish"
Marisa_C 9:07 PM RT @hartle: #eltchat I think acceptance of different usages important but impossible to teach. 2many varieties > depends on level & focus?
DinaDobrou 9:07 PM @leoselivan ELF=Language used by ppl who don't share the same 1st language. #ELTchat
jankenb2 9:07 PM #eltchat @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan I don't know if it can be called a belief. It's a perspective on curriculum perhaps but not a good/bad issue
Shaunwilden 9:07 PM @SueAnnan They never will give up trying to get them to :-) #eltchat
TyKendall 9:07 PM @SueAnnan #ELTCHAT but should we not teach articles then?
DinaDobrou 9:08 PM @TyKendall But most if not all will eventually have to deal with a variety of Englishes/accents etc. Shld b able to cope. #ELTchat
naomishema 9:08 PM What do you do with spelling? Do you introduce both "color" and "colour" together? #eltchat
elawassell 9:08 PM http://t.co/pRsD2274 - Robin Walker's talk - which variety of ENG to tch #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:08 PM @TyKendall  I think it depends on what they need English for #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 9:08 PM @Marisa_C I've heard it used in many ways hence my asking #eltchat
eLeafy 9:08 PM The term"International English"made me lose points at an exam back in uni. Clearly the lecturer didn't think there was such a thing #eltchat
EdPegg 9:08 PM international english differs from ELF in that it focuses on cross cultural performance rather than describing what NNS do #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:08 PM my tweetdeck is all over the place #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:08 PM Hey @chiasuan are you around for tonight's #eltchat on ELF?
SueAnnan 9:08 PM @TyKendall  On my side of the pond they want British English, but some of what we teach  certainly depends on  student needs #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 9:09 PM Shouldn't we just teach the one we know? #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 9:09 PM I made it! Great topic tonight! :) Sometimes as a non-Brit, I feel like I'm the "int'l Eng" person... #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:09 PM So what variety do each of you teach A.the coursebook? B. your own regional variety C. So called Standard English? #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:09 PM #ELTCHAT ...maybe not Jamaican though
SueAnnan 9:09 PM @Shaunwilden  Yes He's impressive #eltchat
TyKendall 9:09 PM #ELTCHAT I think if you are familiar with either British or American English, you should be able to handle pretty much any variety
Shaunwilden 9:09 PM @elawassell I saw him speak ealrier this year he made me wobble on my beliefs #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:10 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Shouldn't we just teach the one we know? #eltchat
hartle 9:10 PM RT @naomishema: What do you do with spelling? #eltchat this confuses my stds. Teachers tell thm Use 1 type: but difficult for them 2 know
EdPegg 9:10 PM international English focuses on cross cultural communication, not a particular variety of English #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:10 PM RT @Marisa_C: So what variety do each of you teach A.the coursebook? B. your own regional variety C. So called Standard English? #ELTchat
jankenb2 9:10 PM @hartle #eltchat A teacher never compromises on standards but may set fewer goals. I try 2 create meaningful learning expers 2 max Ss lrning
DinaDobrou 9:10 PM RT @EdPegg: international english differs from ELF in that it focuses on cross cultural performance rather than describing what NNS do #eltchat
naomishema 9:10 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Shouldn't we just teach the one we know? #eltchat
HowDoWeFeel 9:10 PM RT @Noreen_Lam I made it! Great topic tonight! :) Sometimes as a non-Brit, I feel like I'm the "int'l Eng" person... #eltchat
leoselivan 9:10 PM @eLeafy lose marks? why didnt you show him David Crystal's articles? Jenkins? #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:10 PM @Marisa_C mine is slow I think. #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:10 PM @Marisa_C mine is slow I think. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:10 PM RT @TyKendall: #ELTCHAT I think if U R familiar w/ either British or American English, U shld B able 2 handle pretty much any variety
Shaunwilden 9:11 PM @Marisa_C Well think knowldge always makes u a better tchr but it still boils down to teaching the one you know #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:11 PM @hartle I like the idea of own identity through language - called one's own idiolect  #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:11 PM @EdPegg Global commerce has also contributed to focus on cultural performance. BE depends on 'globish' #ELTchat
SophiaMav 9:11 PM RT @Marisa_C: As a NNEST teacher, is it possible to be aware of all varieties? #eltchat and is it useful? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:11 PM RT @jimscriv: If I taught International English I'd be teaching a foreign language that I don't know #eltchat
leoselivan 9:11 PM @DinaDobrou yes i know what ELF is but the question is wherther ELF and Intl Eng are the same thing? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:11 PM RT @hartle: #eltchat so this means encouraging learners to search for own "English identity" not teaching a mythical "Globlish"
elawassell 9:11 PM RT @SueAnnan:@TyKendall it depends wht they need English for - ESOL Ss living in Yorkshire may benefit frm learning yorkshire accnt #ELTchat
jimscriv 9:11 PM If I taught International English I'd be teaching a foreign language that I don't know #eltchat
chiasuan 9:12 PM @SueAnnan @TyKendall I'd beg2differ.If u knw UK or USA English,u'd still struggle w varieties e.g. Singlish.Plus,What's UK English? #eltchat
naomishema 9:12 PM @hartle I'm American but my students use a British dictionary, the different spelling comes up.  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:12 PM RT @chiasuan:  I'd beg to differ. If u know UK or USA English, u'd still struggle w varieties e.g. Singlish. Plus, What's UK Eng? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:12 PM RT @TyKendall: #ELTCHAT I'm not sure even a NS is familiar with all varieties! @Marisa_C > Exactly and what use?
leoselivan 9:12 PM @Marisa_C no and there is no need as @SueAnnan said being familiar with Br and Am varieties should be enought #eltchat
hartle 9:12 PM RT @Marisa_C: So what variety do each of you teach? #ELTchat I teach according to learner need... Use my own version but slso corpora etc.
SueAnnan 9:12 PM @elawassell  Accent is no different- it's just pronunciation.  More prob with dialect #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:12 PM #ELTCHAT I'm not sure even a NS is familiar with all varieties! @Marisa_C
chiasuan 9:13 PM @Marisa_C @TyKendall I don't think the idea is to make learners learn ALL the varieties. But exposure is always good. #eltchat
TyKendall 9:13 PM #ELTCHAT @chiasuan  perhaps, but no offence, I've never had a student ask me to prepare them for understanding Singlish!
jimscriv 9:13 PM I can't "teach" US English myself - all I can do is point out features, spellings etc that I've heard about or read about #eltchat
TyKendall 9:14 PM #ELTCHAT @Shaunwilden  depends what the Ss want I suppose
jimscriv 9:14 PM RT @SueAnnan: I have many Czech students. The world will not end if they don't use articles IMO.#ELTChat
Shaunwilden 9:14 PM @chiasuan @Marisa_C @TyKendall is wide exposure good for sts or confusing? #eltchat
Timek 9:14 PM I researched ELF with my students and asked them what parts of English they did not consider important in ELF communucations #eltchat
hartle 9:14 PM RT @jankenb2: #eltchat  Hmm, feser goals frm teacher ok. But learners tend to set thr own goals... Hopefully :-)
Shaunwilden 9:15 PM @SueAnnan well yes, i was merely disagreeing we should simply teach them all varieties:-) #eltchat
leoselivan 9:15 PM pertinent to our chat is report commissioned by BC which shows that 75% of exchanges in Eng take place btw NNS http://t.co/cMXSHbHT #eltchat
hartle 9:15 PM RT @Marisa_C: @hartle I like the idea of own identity.. #eltchat Yes, I encourage stds to "take possession" pf expressions they like, a lot.
chiasuan 9:15 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @TyKendall I think that's like saying 'All the grammar of English - good or confusing?' #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 9:15 PM RT @shaunwilden Shouldn't we just teach the one we know? >Yes! CBs set stds--we have to show ss diffs btw those & Globish. #eltchat
naomishema 9:15 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @chiasuan @Marisa_C @TyKendall is wide exposure good for sts or confusing? #eltchat> depends on level of SS!
SueAnnan 9:15 PM @Shaunwilden  depends on needs #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:16 PM So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:16 PM @chiasuan @Marisa_C @TyKendall I just think we have to be careful with not overloading #eltchat
chiasuan 9:16 PM @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan Ah hah...it depends on what we mean by 'teach'. If that means doing some listening work, then why not? #eltchat
EdPegg 9:16 PM @naomishema @Shaunwilden @chiasuan @Marisa_C @TyKendall the level and the needs of the learner #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:16 PM @Shaunwilden  I'm with you on that. However sometimes our students need other varieties for work and we need to deliver #eltchat
naomishema 9:16 PM I find that struggling learners feel pressured with too many varieties when they are struggling just to get 1 option down! #eltchat
Timek 9:16 PM The main "non-core" features were Articles, preposition usage and certain Tense distinctions, eg past simple v present perfect #eltchat
TyKendall 9:16 PM #ELTCHAT @leoselivan  I've never liked this "statistic", I think it's impossible to verify or reaaaally quantify
chiasuan 9:16 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @TyKendall What I mean is exposure can be helpful so as to sensitise learners' ears & familiarise them. #eltchat
elawassell 9:16 PM RT @naomishema: RT @Shaunwilden: Shouldnt we just teach the one we know? #ELTchat
esolamin 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #eltchat I agree
vmorgana 9:17 PM RT@jimscriv:I can't "teach" US English myself-all I can do is point out features, spellings etc that I've heard about or read about #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:17 PM Seems like theres a big difference between EFL & ESL here. In EFL, local varieties are interesting culturally but not really useful #eltchat
elawassell 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production  #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:17 PM @chiasuan  exactly #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #ELTchat
Tamkirja 9:17 PM #eltchat I go for "my" english - doesn't have to be categorised as international or where you are from
Marisa_C 9:17 PM RT @naomishema: struggling learners feel pressured with too many varieties when they are struggling just to get 1 option down! #eltchat
steve_muir 9:17 PM I stick to what I know. Am often asked Qus I can't answer about US English. Impossible to teach (&learn) all varieties!  #ELTchat
naomishema 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #eltchat
Timek 9:17 PM I deal with BE students who have a v. pragmatic attitude to English - "English is a tool I use for communication" is what one said #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:17 PM RT @Marisa_C: So, it looks like we should differentiate between comprehension and production #eltchat
chiasuan 9:18 PM @elawassell @Marisa_C Oh we should definitely differentiate btwn language learnt for receptive and productive purposes. #eltchat
TyKendall 9:18 PM #ELTCHAT I can't remember where I read it, but I remember someone describing "vehicular English" as not being able to be driven that far!
hartle 9:18 PM #eltchat Global English not really abt NS varities, I think, more abt encouraging learners to be proud of "their English" .
leoselivan 9:18 PM @phil3wade will reply after #eltchat :)
Shaunwilden 9:18 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan Yes agreed, exposure in that way is a necessary #eltchat
Timek 9:18 PM and what matters for them is to achieve successful negotiation of meaning and mutual understanding. #eltchat
chiasuan 9:18 PM @Shaunwilden I just find tht very often my learners find an accent strong bcoz they r not used2it. So some listenin practice helps. #eltchat
naomishema 9:18 PM RT @theteacherjames: Seems like theres a big difference between EFL & ESL here. In EFL, local varieties are interesting culturally but not really useful #eltchat
elawassell 9:19 PM RT@chiasuan:I just find tht very often my learners find an accent strong bcoz they r not used2it. So some listenin practice helps. #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:19 PM @TyKendall but it makes sense . If you teach outside UK ask your Ss who they normally speak to in Eng #eltchat
chiasuan 9:19 PM @Marisa_C Yes, I'd agree with that. If my student is going to work in SE Asia, I'd expose them to the accents from that region. #eltchat
Timek 9:19 PM However they still generally want SE as a Model from the T so I agree that you need to separate production from comprehension #eltchat
TyKendall 9:19 PM #ELTCHAT oooh my cat has decided to wake up and demand some love.......
hartle 9:19 PM #eltchat awareness of learner's English doesn't mean total lack of correction tho' whch wd be a disservice to learners who want the norm 2
Marisa_C 9:19 PM RT @eLeafy: Don't you think that Standard English is already a part of International English? #eltchat > I do yes
eLeafy 9:19 PM Don't you think that Standard English is already a part of International English? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:19 PM @chiasuan  One of my students needed exposure to the Manchester accent :-) #eltchat
jankenb2 9:20 PM @Shaunwilden @chiasuan #eltchat Is the vernacular the end goal of teaching English? Better to aim 4 comprehensible output & academic Eng.
jimscriv 9:20 PM I've never met a student whose ambition was to learn an "impoverished" version of English - but maybe that reflects the sts I meet. #eltchat
chiasuan 9:20 PM @hartle There is that part of ELF too. Allowing learners to take pride in the identity that they portray thru their English. #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:20 PM RT @hartle: #eltchat Global English not really abt NS varities, I think, more abt encouraging learners to be proud of "their English" .
Marisa_C 9:20 PM Also so many tools online these days where you/.your Ss can find/hear what other varieties sound like #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:20 PM @eannegrenoble  Hi Elizabeth #ELTchat
eannegrenoble 9:20 PM RT @elawassell: http://t.co/SM3qnj7P - Robin Walker's talk - which variety of ENG to tch #ELTchat >> a total MUST this one (evening all)
chiasuan 9:21 PM @jimscriv But I think that is a often misunderstood view of ELF...that it's dumbed down. Jazz dance isn't dumbed down ballet. #eltchat
chiasuan 9:21 PM @jimscriv But I think that is a often misunderstood view of ELF...that it's dumbed down. Jazz dance isn't dumbed down ballet. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:21 PM @Marisa_C  and some vocabulary too #Eltchat
SueAnnan 9:21 PM @Marisa_C  and some vocabulary too #Eltchat
hartle 9:21 PM RT @SueAnnan: @chiasuan #eltchat I agree, we shd definitely teach the variety learners need, so Manchester in Man. And Indian in India..
hartle 9:21 PM RT @SueAnnan: @chiasuan #eltchat I agree, we shd definitely teach the variety learners need, so Manchester in Man. And Indian in India..
designerlessons 9:21 PM @elawassell @chiasuan agreed. Learners should never get comfortable with one accent, or they'll struggle outside the classroom #eltchat
designerlessons 9:21 PM @elawassell @chiasuan agreed. Learners should never get comfortable with one accent, or they'll struggle outside the classroom #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:21 PM @jankenb2 @chiasuan not sure i agree that it is #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:21 PM @jankenb2 @chiasuan not sure i agree that it is #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:21 PM Most regional varieties differ mainly in the pronunciation and less on grammar #Eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:21 PM @Marisa_C I started w/ Aussie Engl. at age 5 then had Engl/Amer/Scot teachers, but still can't say I know all varet. Can cope, tho #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:21 PM @leoselivan  #ELTCHAT it makes more sense if you don't take into account the QUALITY of the language, only quantity...and even then....
Shaunwilden 9:21 PM RT @jimscriv: I've never met a student whose ambition was to learn an "impoverished" version of English - but maybe that reflects the sts I meet. #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 9:22 PM Many ss want Eng 4 travel so exposure 2diff accents v imp. List practice def--ss often ask 4 it but any1 know good resources? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:22 PM In Glasgow there was very little vocab which phased me - once i got used to the accent I could deal with most #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:22 PM shouldn't we as Ts be vehicles who help Ss gain access to the variety of Eng they want to learn rather than try to embody one? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:22 PM RT @SueAnnan: @Marisa_C  and some vocabulary too #Eltchat > yes but not thaaaat much as most people think
SueAnnan 9:22 PM @hartle  Manchester in Jersey :-) #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:22 PM @Marisa_C It's useful to be able to cope with at least Brit/Amer. varieties if you have to teach exam prep classes. #ELTchat
EdPegg 9:22 PM @jimscriv what about learners who 'just want to do a job?' #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:22 PM @Marisa_C It's useful to be able to cope with at least Brit/Amer. varieties if you have to teach exam prep classes. #ELTchat
EdPegg 9:22 PM @jimscriv what about learners who 'just want to do a job?' #eltchat
chiasuan 9:23 PM @jankenb2 @Shaunwilden Plus, how would you define the vernacular... It's a minefield, sociolinguistically speaking. #eltchat
Timek 9:23 PM Even if we decide to teach SE as a production model, what approach to Pragmatics do we take? Do we teach NS-based? #eltchat
leoselivan 9:23 PM @TyKendall I was referring to Quantity - not much of a believer in ELF myself here :) #eltchat
elawassell 9:23 PM RT @DinaDobrou: @Marisa_C Its useful to be able to cope with at least Brit/Amer. varieties if you have to teach exam prep classes. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:23 PM @Marisa_C  I can't always. LOL I'm from Edinburgh #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:23 PM @jankenb2 @Shaunwilden Academic English in Academia is great. But Academic English on FB or Twitter is just odd or pompous. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:23 PM @chiasuan  Jazz Dance isn't the right metaphor perhaps. That is also an art form. But ELF is a reduced language.  #eltchat
chiasuan 9:24 PM @jimscriv I know that was the view of ELF, esp when Siedlhofer & Jenkins spoke abt the Lingua Franca Core... #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:24 PM RT @leoselivan: @Marisa_C lots of wee chats with Glaswegian taxi drivers? :) #eltchat > Yess :-D
hartle 9:24 PM RT @chiasuan: @jimscriv ...#eltchat. I agree, not dumbed down but more abt respecting usage, and describing usage than prescribing 1 variety
jimscriv 9:24 PM @EdPegg  Yes - I do see that. I can imagine that a reduced form of English may be enough for many. .just not learnrs I tend to see  #eltchat
leoselivan 9:24 PM @Marisa_C lots of wee chats with Glaswegian taxi drivers? :) #eltchat
jimscriv 9:25 PM Pronunciation is an interesting area. Eg do we need to teach weak forms, elision etc #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:25 PM RT @pavlamilerski: David Crystal on bringing global Eng to sts- the difference betw tching production and tching comprehention http://t.co/A0Xth6RB #eltchat
chiasuan 9:25 PM @jimscriv Now, ELF is about accommodation strategies, collaborative competence (Dewey) and adapting to our interlocutors. #eltchat
naomishema 9:25 PM Literature is a source of exposure - am teaching "Thank you Ma'm" which uses vernacular #eltchat
pavlamilerski 9:25 PM David Crystal on bringing global Eng to sts- the difference betw tching production and tching comprehention http://t.co/A0Xth6RB #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:25 PM @chiasuan but the common core of language been around for a lot longer that this - not a new concept  #eltchat
designerlessons 9:25 PM @jimscriv agreed, or they'd buy a phrasebook. Even if they don't reach the seemingly unattainable proficiency, they should aim high #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:25 PM @Marisa_C @jimscriv   I wouldn't teach ELF but I might accept some of its features depending on the need of my students #eltchat
EdPegg 9:26 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv we should stop talking about the lingua franca core, it's not helpful #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:26 PM RT @jimscriv: Pronunciation is an interesting area. Eg do we need to teach weak forms, elision etc #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:26 PM @jimscriv  If we don't our students have listening difficulties #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:26 PM @leoselivan @chiasuan @jimscriv extreme? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:26 PM RT @pavlamilerski: David Crystal on bringing global Eng to sts-    production  vs comprehention http://t.co/oswhuNzb #eltchat
chiasuan 9:26 PM @Marisa_C But a language has never had a position like English has now...with the internet and global trade cementing its role. #eltchat
eprofessoruk 9:26 PM Integrating colloquial English is not a negative but a fundamental of a rounded learning experience #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:26 PM @hartle Italish? #eltchat
Timek 9:26 PM A problem is that coursebooks are still v. much based on a pure NS-based model for functions, such as requesting, etc. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:26 PM RT @chiasuan: @jimscriv Now, ELF is about accommodation strategies, collaborative competence (Dewey) and adapting to our interlocutors. #eltchat
EdPegg 9:26 PM @jimscriv and then there's the opposite. Learners who have a 'get the job done' approach but need more sophisticated language #eltchat
leoselivan 9:26 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv but dont you think that Siedlhofer & Jenkins take a rather extreme position?  #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:26 PM @SueAnnan @Shaunwilden Work or studies. If a st has 2 study at uni in Brighton or Manchester or Scotland? #ELTchat
jimscriv 9:27 PM @eprofessoruk But WHOSE colloquial English? #eltchat
chiasuan 9:27 PM @EdPegg @jimscriv I think the label 'Lingua Franca Core' is prone to misunderstanding, although Robin Walker uses it well for pron. #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:27 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @eprofessoruk: Integrating colloquial English is not a negative but a fundamental of a rounded learning experience #ELTchat
designerlessons 9:27 PM RT @eprofessoruk: Integrating colloquial English is not a negative but a fundamental of a rounded learning experience #eltchat
EdPegg 9:27 PM @Timek people have tried non native model C?B but they don't sell #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:27 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @eprofessoruk: Integrating colloquial English is not a negative but a fundamental of a rounded learning experience #eltchat
chiasuan 9:27 PM @jimscriv I think its abt prioritising wht we teach.Just2 throw a spanner in2 the works,Singaporean English doesn't use weak forms. #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:27 PM RT @eprofessoruk: Integrating colloquial English is not a negative but a fundamental of a rounded learning experience #eltchat
hartle 9:27 PM #ELTchat my learners tend to want to know "what is right", but they are uni. students studying languages
jankenb2 9:27 PM @hartle #eltchat Good point. We need to sharpen our skills in redirecting unacceptable usage towards acceptable w/o Ss feeling inadequate.
SueAnnan 9:27 PM @DinaDobrou  Standard for academia #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:28 PM RT @vmorgana: RT@jimscriv:I can't "teach" US English myself-all I can do is point out features, spellings etc that I've heard about or read about #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:28 PM @DinaDobrou  My student needs it on the phone for work #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:28 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv But surely if we worried about all the different variations  of stress we'd get nowhere #eltchat
hartle 9:28 PM RT @harrisonmike: @hartle Italish? #eltchat like it :-)
SophiaMav 9:28 PM RT @jimscriv: @eprofessoruk But WHOSE colloquial English? #ELTchat
Timek 9:28 PM ELF is primarily about NNS-NNS comms, in an intercultural context, so the NS-based pragmatics may be overkill for their needs #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:28 PM @SueAnnan True, I was referring to life in that place as well. Some exposure will make it easier for st to adapt. #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:28 PM @Shaunwilden @chiasuan @jimscriv very tolerant of inaccuracy in favour of comprehansibility - what a long word! 17 chars gone! :) #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:28 PM @chiasuan bu why would I teach a S Singaporean English but receptively? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:29 PM @leoselivan I'm not sure that it too extreme though I do disagree with a lot of they have written #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:29 PM RT @Marisa_C: Fundamental question is 2 ASK R Ss if they wish 2 blend productively in2 the community as well as B able 2 understand #Eltchat
chiasuan 9:29 PM @hartle @jimscriv Why not?Shouldn't enhancin our learners accommodatn, collaborative & communicative competence be part of our job? #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:29 PM RT @chiasuan: @Shaunwilden I just find tht very often my learners find an accent strong bcoz they r not used2it. So some listenin practice helps. #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:29 PM Fundamental question is to ASK our Ss if they wish to blend productively into the community as well as be able to understand #Eltchat
leoselivan 9:29 PM we should also think about receptive vs productive. Perhaps Ss need to be exposed to varieties of Eng but not expected to produce #eltchat
chiasuan 9:30 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv 1st of all, weak forms & stress r slightly different. Prominence & word stress do affect intelligibility. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:30 PM (Oh dear - I should be working and I find myself #eltchat -ting again!)
EdPegg 9:30 PM RT @chiasuan: @hartle @jimscriv Why not?Shouldn't enhancin our learners accommodatn, collaborative & communicative competence be part of our job? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:30 PM RT @jimscriv: @chiasuan   I'm very convinced by the need to help communication between speakers from different contexts .  #eltchat
EdPegg 9:30 PM @Timek but pragmatics is just about that - understanding how you're meaning differs from others #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:30 PM RT @leoselivan: @TyKendall but it makes sense . If you teach outside UK ask your Ss who they normally speak to in Eng #eltchat
jimscriv 9:30 PM @chiasuan   I'm very convinced by the need to help communication between speakers from different contexts .  #eltchat
esolamin 9:30 PM RT @SueAnnan: @Marisa_C @jimscriv   I wouldn't teach ELF but I might accept some of its features depending on the need of my students #eltchat
elawassell 9:31 PM RT @jimscriv:Eg do we need to teach weak forms, elision etc <-I do teach ABOUT it! more for comprehension than production though.  #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:31 PM @Marisa_C But don't we say teach the English we speak? So just to play Devil's Advocate, I used to speak Singaporean English..so... #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:31 PM @NickCoxinPurley  But your Asian is not Czech. The needs of the student is different#ELTchat
jankenb2 9:31 PM RT @SueAnnan: RT @jimscriv: @chiasuan   I'm very convinced by the need to help communication between speakers from different contexts .  #eltchat
Timek 9:31 PM @EdPegg yes but I was thinking about something like Global, for example, which isn't so much focused on ENL culture but EIL usage #eltchat
jankenb2 9:31 PM @Marisa_C @eprofessoruk #eltchat above all language is art.Toying w/language & knowing what form is at play is deepening Ss understnd of Eng
leoselivan 9:31 PM @jimscriv talking about reduced language. I vaguely remember 1500 words figure mentioned by smbd do you know who it was? #eltchat
hartle 9:31 PM #ELTchat discussed this with my stds. All very happy at prospect of losing uncountable "information", and 3rd person "s" but still (cont.).
DinaDobrou 9:32 PM RT @leoselivan: shouldn't we as Ts be vehicles who help Ss gain access to the variety of Eng they want to learn rather than try to embody one? #eltchat
TyKendall 9:32 PM #ELTCHAT what annoys me is when you get accused of "cultural imperialism" when you want to teach your own variety...Long live the empire!
Marisa_C 9:32 PM @chiasuan So would you be able to work at IH if that was the variety you taught all your Ss? Be interested to know :-D  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:32 PM @leoselivan A lot of the what we should teach for starters #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:32 PM What about young learners? Shouldn't we expose them to a variety of Englishes as well? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:32 PM @elawassell  me too #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:32 PM @chiasuan I am not arguing that more  that we should stop over thinking it, sorry for being too simplistic perhaps #eltchat
chiasuan 9:33 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv But teachers like urselves r already prioritisin useful lang & helpin learners w communicative competence #eltchat
eprofessoruk 9:33 PM “@jimscriv: But WHOSE colloquial English? #eltchat†Yours, the environment you teach in and the environment your learners exist in now/next
DinaDobrou 9:33 PM @jimscriv @chiasuan Would that be because we're trying to teach "a bit of everything"? #ELTchat
EdPegg 9:33 PM @Timek don't think that matters. Pragmatics is huge in Japan where they study in English to inform themselves on Japanese language  #eltchat
EdPegg 9:33 PM @Timek don't think that matters. Pragmatics is huge in Japan where they study in English to inform themselves on Japanese language  #eltchat
hartle 9:33 PM RT @Noreen_Lam: @hartle  Being proud of their accent?  #eltchat No, also proud of their lexicon, range of grammar, discourse etc.
eannegrenoble 9:33 PM RT @leoselivan: @jimscriv talking about reduced language. Ogden's "Basic English" (1930) has 800 wds   #eltchat
jimscriv 9:33 PM When I worked in Kenya the teachers joked: "Are you come for table?" "No, I am come for tea". Local stress/grammar.  #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:33 PM @NickCoxinPurley  If you use the hashtag, it would be great for you to join in ELTchat
leoselivan 9:33 PM @elawassell definitely teach weak forms, elision etc but what does it have to do with Intl' Eng?  #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:34 PM RT @Marisa_C: I dont think there is anyone here who thinks less of one variety over another #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:34 PM @Marisa_C  absolutely not #ELTchat
elawassell 9:34 PM @leoselivan I just answered Jim's question.
Timek 9:34 PM @EdPegg yes, Pragmatics is meaning in context + ELF users may wish to convey meaning without using the same degree of indirectness #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:34 PM I don't think there is anyone here who thinks less of one variety over another #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:34 PM @SueAnnan That's even more difficult. Lip reading not there to help. Have same prob with my BE sts. #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:34 PM @TyKendall LOL I know what you mean whereas if you were teaching some obscure variety you would be praised for diversity and stuff  #eltchat
NickCoxinPurley 9:35 PM @SueAnnan Agreed.  Also think it helps speed of speech #eltchat
leoselivan 9:35 PM @elawassell yes I know ... oh sorry didn't include him in the reply but anyway he is ignoring my comments & Qs :) #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:35 PM RT @pavlamilerski: David Crystal on bringing global Eng to sts- the difference betw tching production and tching comprehention http://t.co/A0Xth6RB #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:35 PM @chiasuan  teaching or pointing out where relevant? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:35 PM However, I declare I don't know my own variety #ELTchat - as a NNEST how am I supposed to choose ?
elawassell 9:35 PM :-)RT @Marisa_C: I dont think there is anyone here who thinks less of one variety over another  #ELTchat
naomishema 9:35 PM RT @chiasuan: @Shaunwilden @jimscriv It's the teachers who r blindly spendin hrs teaching uncount, articles, weak forms tht need to hear abt ELF. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:35 PM @chiasuan  That might be me ....   #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:35 PM @DinaDobrou  Yep. The BBC archive is an excellent source though #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:35 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv It's the teachers who r blindly spendin hrs teaching uncount, articles, weak forms tht need to hear abt ELF. #eltchat
TyKendall 9:35 PM #ELTCHAT @Marisa_C  Well maybe a little bit..... :-) :-)
chiasuan 9:36 PM @Marisa_C I agree that the real world is harsh, but that's why more people outside TEFL need to realise the realities of ELF. #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:36 PM RT @Marisa_C: However, I declare I dont know my own variety #ELTchat - as a NNEST how am I supposed to choose ? > good point! #ELTchat
jimscriv 9:36 PM @Marisa_C  In the 80's in Moscow the Professors at MGU considered they spoke a better version of British English than the British #eltchat
Timek 9:36 PM When does an error become an innovation? I think that 'trainings' has already attained the status of a word in ELF! #eltchat
TyKendall 9:36 PM #ELTCHAT @Marisa_C  Whichever one you identify with/aspire to imitate....or maybe you are a law unto yourself :-)
EdPegg 9:36 PM @Timek agree but what about interacting with others, how direct does you're meaning need to be? For me, that is int'l English #eltchat
chiasuan 9:37 PM @SueAnnan No harm pointin out at all.But honestly,I've seen2many teachers spendin time on things tht do not affect anything at all. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:37 PM @leoselivan It's flying past very fast. No snub intended! #eltchat
hartle 9:37 PM #eltchat sorry, slow connection... Italian stds when confronted with "Ialianish" (street vendor Italian) all horrified: say: Wrong!!
SueAnnan 9:37 PM @chiasuan  Yes but nothing will change until you get exam boards with you #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:37 PM @TyKendall  #ELTCHAT   I wish!!!! : :-D  But I don't think that you need ELF instruction to communicate with me  :-)
Marisa_C 9:38 PM @jimscriv  Lol!!!! And were they right perchance?  #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:38 PM @chiasuan  Yes, I agree that sometimes we are banging heads for no good reason #eltchat
jankenb2 9:38 PM @SophiaMav #eltchat I believe we shld focus young on acquring the highest level of AE. AE will serve them best & c/b applied 2 conver Eng 2
DinaDobrou 9:38 PM RT @Timek: ELF is primarily about NNS-NNS comms, in an intercultural context, so the NS-based pragmatics may be overkill for their needs #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:38 PM @chiasuan  #eltchat I think - with all due respect - that not all people are as hot on ELF as you or others may be
chiasuan 9:39 PM @SueAnnan I have a Korean st who was penalisd coz of her strong Korean accent.U wouldn't penalise some1 w a strng Australian accnt? #eltchat
leoselivan 9:39 PM another interesting blog post related to our chat http://t.co/PQ6HPgW3 via @hoprea #eltchat
hartle 9:39 PM RT @SueAnnan: @chiasuan  Yes but nothing will change... #eltchat yes, a lot of "lip service" but not much credit, really.
leoselivan 9:39 PM @jimscriv no prob - I barely manage to keep up myself here :) the more ppl join the harder it gets #eltchat
eannegrenoble 9:39 PM @hartle that why the sst need to "understand" that ELF is acceptable #eltchat #eltchat
jimscriv 9:39 PM @chiasuan  But those things are important parts of someone's language!  #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:39 PM RT @Marisa_C: Fundamental question is to ASK our Ss if they wish to blend productively into the community as well as be able to understand #Eltchat
leoselivan 9:40 PM as P Ur once said (don't remember exact quote) it's ok if Ss speak Globish but we are Ts so we should be teaching English #eltchat
TyKendall 9:40 PM RT @jimscriv: @chiasuan  But those things are important parts of someone's language!  #eltchat INDEED! http://t.co/DxzvQLMX - good article
Marisa_C 9:40 PM @jimscriv Ow you lazy people _ I have noticed that too by the way :-D  #eltchat
chiasuan 9:40 PM @Marisa_C Not expecting pple to be hot on ELF. Just hope for some common sense frm teachers when picking what is useful for sts. #eltchat
thejamesabroad 9:40 PM Seems to me that the so-called models of Eng whether US, Br or other have little relation to the language that is actually used. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:40 PM @Marisa_C  They told me to my face that we had let standards slip and did things too lazily now! They spoke "Queen 1953" English #eltchat
jankenb2 9:40 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan #eltchat This is one reason why #dogme has such a strong following. Authentic learning is on via authentic instruction.
naomishema 9:40 PM RT @leoselivan: another interesting blog post related to our chat http://t.co/PQ6HPgW3 via @hoprea #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:40 PM @chiasuan  LOL #eltchat
chiasuan 9:41 PM @jimscriv But you wouldn't spend half your classroom time on them though, would you? #eltchat
Timek 9:41 PM @jimscriv @chiasuan yet in an ESP context, each ESP is actually a kind of EIL w/ a shared lexis which is international in scope #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:41 PM @chiasuan  when did you last say either of those things? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:41 PM @chiasuan  #eltchat to come back to ELF - it's high demand teaching that not all Ts able to or willing to commit to #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:41 PM @harrisonmike  and what conclusion did they reach? #eltchat
chiasuan 9:41 PM @Marisa_C I swear I saw a teacher recently who taught 'raining cats & dogs' and a book that taught int students 'knackered'. #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:41 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan IELTS examiners were discussing this one weekend- how native speakers w/strong regional variety of Eng do badly #eltchat
chiasuan 9:42 PM @SueAnnan I do say 'knackered' but that only exists in UK English. No one else uses it. #eltchat
jimscriv 9:42 PM @chiasuan   (looks sheepish and stares at the ground) #eltchat
eannegrenoble 9:42 PM RT @jimscriv: @Marisa_C  They spoke "Queen 1953" English #eltchat >> You know she's changed as well ! heard that on the radio with examples
DinaDobrou 9:42 PM @SophiaMav Definitely, especially if, as @Marisa_C said, we want them to blend into the community. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:42 PM @harrisonmike  yes, That's what I've been saying #eltchat
JoHart 9:42 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan Imho is abt comprehensibility to the majority of other Eng spkrs from all bckgrnds #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:42 PM #ELTCHAT @chiasuan what's wrong with "knackered"? Millions of NS say it.
Shaunwilden 9:42 PM @chiasuan @Marisa_C But sts like to learn idioms, least mine did cos they had a go at me  for not teaching them #eltchat
NickCoxinPurley 9:42 PM #eltchat When Anglophones learn a foreign language, esp. EFL teachers, what standard do they aspire to? Even if unrealistic?
jimscriv 9:42 PM @chiasuan  I've never really understood what's wrong with "cats and dogs". It has become an ELT cliche but it is often said #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:42 PM @SueAnnan IELTS is based on a view of a 'standard English' and deviations punished I think. #eltchat
hartle 9:42 PM RT @eannegrenoble: @hartle that why the sst need to "understand"  #eltchat Yes, & shock approach part of process :-)
chiasuan 9:43 PM @jimscriv Cute Jim. Very cute. *wink* #eltchat
elawassell 9:43 PM @chiasuan A friend was told at th job interview that she should teach RP - her Mancunian accent not acceptable!  #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:43 PM @harrisonmike @sueannan hmmm as IELTS examiner I can tell u it's more abt comprenesiviblity -that bloody long word ! 17 chars down! #eltchat
jimscriv 9:43 PM @eannegrenoble  Yes - extraordinary actually - a vivid sign of class change over a short period of time. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:43 PM @theteacherjames  of course #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:43 PM Personally, I believe this to be much more important in ESP and looking at professional registers #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:43 PM @Timek @jimscriv Agreed. That's why in Business English, ELF is like an assumed normality for most... #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:43 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan Can't people see the difference between accent & pronunciation? Intelligibility & unintelligibly? Grrrrr. #eltchat
chiasuan 9:44 PM @jimscriv Truth is we r all tryin2get sts & teachers away frm obsessing abt grammar.(I love grammar btw) And ELF just reaffirms it. #eltchat
hartle 9:44 PM #eltchat I think generally a lot more acceptance in English speaking world of variants. Accommodation the norm in business contexts...
designerlessons 9:44 PM ss centred classes, focusing on what Ss want to communicate - using a variety of approaches, accents, & global media is best IMHO a #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:44 PM @chiasuan saying the same thing with defferent vocabularies I think, after all :-D  #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 9:44 PM @chiasuan So what does this say abt teaching of weak forms? Useful4 listg, even if many (most?)Eng spkrs now r "non-native", right? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:44 PM RT @JoHart: #ELTchat Depends wht meant by penalise 2 if not comprehensible 2 others in work group then may have safety risk
leoselivan 9:44 PM @theteacherjames @sueannan @harrisonmike intelligibility that's what I meant! :) #eltchat
TyKendall 9:44 PM #ELTCHAT @chiasuan but that's not a reason not to teach it, it exists nonetheless (and moreover, it's common) and I think US EN will underst
JoHart 9:44 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan #ELTchat Depends what meant by penalise too if not comprehensible to others in work group then may have safety risk
Marisa_C 9:45 PM Do you actively teach the 'big' varieties to your Ss ? #ELTchat
Timek 9:45 PM That's Widdowson's view of EIL/ELF - it's really just a question of ESPs. This is true in terms of vocab, which is domain-specific #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:45 PM @TyKendall With you Ty! I'm a Brit variety fan even if a NNEST. lol #ELTchat
eannegrenoble 9:45 PM @jimscriv Class? or language? - I was AMAZED at the estury English in Waterloo station on Ascot day - coming from beautiful hats!  #eltchat
jankenb2 9:45 PM #eltchat RT @SueAnnan: @harrisonmike & what conclusion did they reach?  What was the consensus? Do I drop my US Midwest accent: & for what?
SophiaMav 9:45 PM RT @DinaDobrou: @SophiaMav Definitely, especially if, as @Marisa_C said, we want them to blend into the community > absolutely #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:46 PM @Marisa_C I often point out the differences which aren't that many - well not as many as some textbooks would have you believe #eltchat
eLeafy 9:46 PM @chiasuan yeah but then to be comprehensible ppl try 2 naturalize their accent.Whats the point when she speaks no1 can understand #eltchat
eannegrenoble 9:46 PM @Marisa_C Not actively teach, but that's what they learn #ELTchat
eannegrenoble 9:46 PM @Marisa_C Not actively teach, but that's what they learn #ELTchat
pavlamilerski 9:46 PM Eng global lg - consequences for the future development of the lg? interesting article from 1999 http://t.co/7RjjkYKp  #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:46 PM @hartle Not everyone is good at accommodatn or cross-cultural issues.&as a teacher,we shld help learners b better communicators. #eltchat
TyKendall 9:46 PM #ELTCHAT @DinaDobrou  thanks Dina! As a coincidence, I'm quite knackered now..... lol
leoselivan 9:47 PM @TyKendall @DinaDobrou  good example! I wouldn't teach "knackered" unless my Ss were intrstd in Brit Colloq Eng  #eltchat
hartle 9:47 PM #eltchat gotta go, everyone. Early flight 2morrow. Thnx for this, very interesting chat :-)))
TyKendall 9:47 PM #ELTCHAT I teach UK EN, but I am able to point out US EN features - the difference between the two is continuously eroding
DinaDobrou 9:47 PM RT @SophiaMav: RT @Marisa_C: However, I declare I dont know my own variety #ELTchat - as a NNEST how am I supposed to choose ? > good point! #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:47 PM @theteacherjames Totally agree! #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:47 PM @eannegrenoble I didn't explain myself well - I meant the main differences :-(  #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:47 PM I don't actively teach what I am unfamiliar with #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:48 PM @leoselivan @TyKendall @DinaDobrou why not, knackered is pretty common in all UK media #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:48 PM RT @pavlamilerski: Eng global lg - consequences for the future development of the lg? interesting article from 1999 http://t.co/7RjjkYKp  #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:48 PM @JoHart @SueAnnan Penalise in her IELTS exam...badly! #eltchat
leoselivan 9:48 PM @DinaDobrou @TyKendall  ...or were going to move to UK #eltchat
chiasuan 9:48 PM @Noreen_Lam Again, for receptive purposes, sure... #eltchat
Timek 9:48 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv yes, and if we accept the idea of core and non-core features, surely this affects our view of fossilisation? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:48 PM I think roleplays with specific regional vbariety identities might be fun #ELTchat Ss can research them a bit (advanced tho I shd think)
TyKendall 9:49 PM #ELTCHAT @jimscriv it makes you die a bit inside doesn't it. Frenches? There'd be riots in Paris I'm sure!
Shaunwilden 9:49 PM @chiasuan I didnt say it was an elf thing #eltchat
jimscriv 9:49 PM @chiasuan  But "cats and dogs" was your example ... #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:49 PM @leoselivan @TyKendall I use it and if they pick it up, good for them. But, true, wouldn't 'teach' it as in 'expect them 2 know it' #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:49 PM @DinaDobrou some ppl tell me I'm from the UK, others from down under - then others can hear a def American twang :-D  #ELTchat #ELTchat
AchilleasK 9:49 PM RT @jimscriv: I remember my shock at first hearing there was a magazine called "World Englishes".  Countable? COUNTABLE???? No! #eltchat
chiasuan 9:49 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Tht's another misconception of ELF, that we shouldn't teach idioms. Some idioms are common & useful. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:49 PM @Shaunwilden  we say pooped, or foutu:-) #eltchat
jimscriv 9:49 PM I remember my shock at first hearing there was a magazine called "World Englishes".  Countable? COUNTABLE???? No! #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:50 PM @harrisonmike  I agree with you MIke, but the unintel factor is V important #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:50 PM @leoselivan And these sts dont access the internet in english then? #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:50 PM @jankenb2 @SueAnnan I'd never ask someone to drop their accent unless completely unintelligible. #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:50 PM I do like dropping the odd Br Eng phrase or idiom in every now & again. Not particularly useful but sts love it. Can't do any harm. #eltchat
chiasuan 9:50 PM @TyKendall NS in the UK only. Not in the US or Singapore or Phillippines etc. #eltchat
leoselivan 9:50 PM @Shaunwilden @TyKendall @DinaDobrou but for EFL Ss not living in or travelling to UK "knackered" is not relevant #eltchat
jankenb2 9:50 PM @chiasuan @SueAnnan #eltchat Hey you guys (Midwest) I mean ya'all (New Orleans) I mean, Che (Turkish) I can't seem to find the 1 right word!
leoselivan 9:51 PM @Shaunwilden haven't seen "knackered" much in the media as you say (mostly spoken only) but will look out for it now #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:51 PM @DinaDobrou a well-spoken European is much more cosmopilitan and refined than an uncouth native speaker - also prettier #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:51 PM @jimscriv #ELTCHAT I must still be in the "getting used to it" phase then, it just doesn't sit well with me for some reason
jimscriv 9:51 PM @DinaDobrou  You speak that well known language "European"? #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:51 PM IELTS is in a weird place vis a vis world English as it's a requirement for immigration to US, Canada, Australia and UK #ELTCHAT
chiasuan 9:51 PM @eLeafy But that's a huge discussion on its own. Some pple can't understand coz they r not used to the accent. #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:51 PM RT @harrisonmike: @jankenb2 @SueAnnan Id never ask someone to drop their accent unless completely unintelligible. #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:51 PM @Marisa_C A Brit friend of mine calls me 'a well-spoken European'. Should I take that as a compliment? :P #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:51 PM @theteacherjames lol James - certainly harmless  #eltchat
leoselivan 9:51 PM @theteacherjames sure James but you wouldn't really expect Ss to produce them unless of course they wanted to #eltchat
jimscriv 9:52 PM @eLeafy  It is now. That's the point! #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:52 PM RT @jankenb2: @Marisa_C #eltchat I love idioms! They are great sources of cultural logic,  excellent metaphors & key to comprhens
eannegrenoble 9:52 PM RT @theteacherjames:  ...Can't do any harm>> Agreed >I was floored when st said "I'm not daft you know"   My reaction surprized me #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:52 PM RT @designerlessons: I think they've all been burned from my mind. I long for idioms. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:52 PM @leoselivan it's one of those words my mum told me not to use so always hear it :-) #eltchat
leoselivan 9:52 PM @harrisonmike that's why any spelling variety is accepted in IELTS #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:52 PM So IELTS is a test taken by native and non-native speakers and IMO isn't the best designed it could be for either #eltchat
hartle 9:52 PM #eltchat night all, got to go. Early flight 2morrow.
pavlamilerski 9:52 PM RT @chiasuan: @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Tht's another misconception of ELF, that we shouldn't teach idioms. Some idioms are common & useful. #eltchat
JoHart 9:52 PM @theteacherjames #ELTchat Often get ESL stdnts in my adult lit classes & they always want to learn local (Aus) idiom - culturally imptnt
jankenb2 9:52 PM @chiasuan @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C 
Marisa_C 9:52 PM @DinaDobrou I was joking of course - your ENglish is lovely  #ELTchat
theteacherjames 9:52 PM @leoselivan Agreed, in fact I'll often say this isn't very useful. It's part of the cultural aspect of language learning. #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:52 PM RT @DinaDobrou: @Marisa_C A Brit friend of mine calls me a well-spoken European. Should I take that as a compliment? :P > U are :) #ELTchat
chiasuan 9:52 PM @eLeafy I couldn't understand the Scottish accnt when I 1st got here.But u get used to it.She did the IELTS in Korea & scored well! #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:53 PM @JoHart Definitely more useful in an ESL context (EFL myself!) #ELTchat
TyKendall 9:53 PM #ELTCHAT too fast, and we're too knackered ;-) ;-)
DinaDobrou 9:53 PM Is #ELTchat too fast for me or am I too slow for #ELTchat? I wonder...
Shaunwilden 9:53 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv Yes and i was responding to your example  - I never mentioned ELF at all #eltchat
harrisonmike 9:53 PM @leoselivan gotta be consistent though. No 'organise' and then 'organize' please ;) #eltchat
hartle 9:53 PM #eltchat 1 last thought: when editing conf. Papers 4 Global English Conference in Verona, all NNESTs wanted thr papers correcting...??
leoselivan 9:53 PM @theteacherjames talking about culture... well that's a topic for another #eltchat I guess :)
theteacherjames 9:53 PM @designerlessons Where are you from? #eltchat
chiasuan 9:53 PM @jimscriv I was responding to @Shaunwilden saying some sts want idioms. Sure, useful ones are great! Would u teach 'cats & dogs'? #eltchat
chiasuan 9:54 PM @Marisa_C @jankenb2 I had this trainee recently who used an idiom in every utterance.  Ironically made him sound more NNS! #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:54 PM @eannegrenoble I love that! Does make their English more well rounded and interesting, it's got to be said. #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:54 PM @chiasuan as of anything else I think -  #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:54 PM @chiasuan  I have a student who says'it's not my cup of tea a few times each day :-( #eltchat
jankenb2 9:54 PM #eltchat @harrisonmike @SueAnnan Good point.
Shaunwilden 9:54 PM @Marisa_C sue said she would #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:54 PM @DinaDobrou Maybe we should start an International/ watered down version ;-) #eltchat
designerlessons 9:54 PM nothing more difficult to hear than a pre-int student trying to use colloquial English - they have to run before they can walk. #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:54 PM How time flies when #ELTchat is on fire!!!! DON"T anyone go away before we get someone to do the summary please!!!
chiasuan 9:54 PM @Marisa_C @jankenb2 @Shaunwilden But a misuse or overuse of idioms could really hinder communication & impression made. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:55 PM @leoselivan  I offered earlier, but you're welcome if you want #eltchat
chiasuan 9:55 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv Would you teach 'raining cats and dogs', Shaun? Of all the idioms around? *wink* #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:55 PM @chiasuan llol  my best one in a BE class abt a guy who "had a finger in every tart!!!"  #eltchat
leoselivan 9:55 PM @Marisa_C would love to summarise but so many different opinions have been voiced. is there any consesus? #eltchat
SophiaMav 9:55 PM @DinaDobrou are you using tweetchat? If not, you should :) #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:55 PM @chiasuan  Yes. That I can believe #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:55 PM @leoselivan We've definitely done that at some point! #eltchat
Timek 9:56 PM Fossilisation: should we worry about features such as who vs which if that is not seen as important in the eyes of ELF users? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:56 PM @chiasuan  Not if she's here #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:56 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv as @leoselivan said most sts seem to know it, I usually roll my eyes and say yes but we dont really say that #eltchat
TyKendall 9:56 PM #ELTCHAT I had to teach "take a rain check" even though it's not my variety (and I personally hate the expression)
jimscriv 9:56 PM @chiasuan  People DO use it! #eltchat (especially on IH posters)
chiasuan 9:56 PM @SueAnnan I have a student who says 'not my cup of tea' all the time too! Is it the same one? #eltchat
leoselivan 9:56 PM @Shaunwilden repressed childhood fantasy/trauma then :)) #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:56 PM @designerlessons Brighton. No space for some idioms in your classrooms? #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 9:56 PM Any1 using hootsuite able 2tell me why some tweets don't show up on my #eltchat stream? Have2 view conversation2 see some...1st day w/HS! :)
Shaunwilden 9:57 PM @chiasuan @jimscriv @leoselivan Sorry i still dont get what is wrong with that #eltchat
jimscriv 9:57 PM @chiasuan  And I would too (confession time) #eltchat
leoselivan 9:57 PM @SophiaMav @tykendall @dinadobrou I wouldn't penalise Ss as much for "I am knackered" as I would for " *I tired " or some such #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:57 PM @Shaunwilden  Cats and dogs is 'raining stairrods ' here. Another kettle of fish:-) #eltchat
chiasuan 9:57 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv @leoselivan Hahaha...but this teacher I saw actually actively taught it...fed it in when it was raining! #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:58 PM @Marisa_C  BBC listening post is new archive of accents #ELTchat
leoselivan 9:58 PM @chiasuan @Shaunwilden @jimscriv I'd teach "it's pouring (down)" or "it';s bucketing down" #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:58 PM RT @Timek: I think the chat shows that this is a huge area with many separate sub-topics for discussion! ELF grammar, pron, pragmatics, etc, #eltchat
jimscriv 9:58 PM @chiasuan  He he he You are quite hardline you are! #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:58 PM Three minutes to end of chat - can u share some links where Ts and Ss can hear different accents or learn abt diff varieties? #ELTchat
Timek 9:58 PM I think the chat shows that this is a huge area with many separate sub-topics for discussion! ELF grammar, pron, pragmatics, etc, #eltchat
TyKendall 9:58 PM #ELTCHAT @leoselivan  Agree, it shows they have a range of vocab, different registers
TyKendall 9:59 PM http://t.co/QcuynFW5 #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:59 PM @designerlessons Agreed. Why did you say you "long for them"? #curious #eltchat
chiasuan 9:59 PM @Shaunwilden @jimscriv @leoselivan I think it is all abt prioritisin classrm time.There're other more useful things 1 can do w it. #eltchat
designerlessons 9:59 PM @theteacherjames I teach them when they come up, I think they need to be contextualised -Ss more likely to remember them #eltchat
leoselivan 9:59 PM @harrisonmike sorry u r right - spelling is in Lex resource! :) #eltchat
TyKendall 9:59 PM #ELTCHAT @SueAnnan YES it's fantastic!
SophiaMav 9:59 PM RT @Timek: I think the chat shows that this is a huge area with many separate sub-topics for discussion! ELF grammar, pron, pragmatics, etc, #eltchat
pavlamilerski 9:59 PM @Marisa_C I had to produce a dialogue in Irish Eng..the cat fell on the car /kiat fella..d kiar/ or sth like this. gr8 experience!  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:59 PM Fire some links away please #ELTchat
chiasuan 10:00 PM @leoselivan @Shaunwilden @jimscriv Why not 'It's pissing down'? That's probably the most used one here in the UK! hahaha #eltchat
jimscriv 10:00 PM @chiasuan  Ha ha #eltchat
eprofessoruk 10:00 PM The British library website is fantastic for regional accents, dialects etc lots of audio very interactive #ELTchat
Marisa_C 10:00 PM @leoselivan thank you so much  #eltchat
SophiaMav 10:00 PM RT @Marisa_C: Three minutes to end of chat - can u share some links where Ts and Ss can hear different accents or learn abt diff varieties? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 10:00 PM @TyKendall  thanks for link Tyson #eltchat
eannegrenoble 10:00 PM @Timek  Don't forget Robin Walker http://t.co/SM3qnj7P  >>brill #eltchat
leoselivan 10:00 PM @Marisa_C asked for links here we go #eltchat http://t.co/CFwwptUu McCrum's (Story of Eng) article on Globish
BrainTrack 10:00 PM cool! RT @ShellTerrell: via @yearinthelifeof Video Clips for Classroom Use from BBC Motion Gallery http://t.co/28pFkXqn #eltchat #esl
jimscriv 10:01 PM @chiasuan True! #eltchat That's a useful one, though with tabbooish element #eltchat
elawassell 10:01 PM http://t.co/pRsD2274 I'll repeat the link I gave to R. Walker's talk #ELTchat
leoselivan 10:01 PM another link: Whose Eng is right? via @brad5patterson http://t.co/ohAGPx9N  #eltchat
TyKendall 10:01 PM @eprofessoruk  I just linked to that: http://t.co/fLVC1kYJ #eltchat
SophiaMav 10:01 PM RT @eprofessoruk: The British library website is fantastic for regional accents, dialects etc lots of audio very interactive #ELTchat
SueAnnan 10:01 PM @chiasuan  depends on context of situation! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10:01 PM @chiasuan Yes but if it is raining then seems to me it can be raised, that doesnt mean dont mention others #eltchat
theteacherjames 10:01 PM @SueAnnan I probably say that about ten time a conversation! That's what happens when your taste is bit non-mainstream like me! #eltchat
leoselivan 10:02 PM @chiasuan @Shaunwilden @jimscriv LOL I wrote it and then deleted it - wanted to be PC on #eltchat - obviously not the case with you Chia! :)
Marisa_C 10:02 PM @hoprea OUI #ELTChat
hoprea 10:02 PM Is it over? #ELTChat :(
SophiaMav 10:02 PM RT @leoselivan: another link: Whose Eng is right? via @brad5patterson http://t.co/r7uowKSy  #ELTchat
Timek 10:02 PM @chiasuan you nailed it, chia suan, that's what Seidlhofer calls Unilateral Idiomaticity which is what skilled ELF users avoid! #eltchat
TyKendall 10:02 PM #eltchat @Marisa_C  I''ve posted the British library one, Regional Voices/Changing voices
Marisa_C 10:02 PM @chiasuan i know :-D he has never recovered from it in the office te he he #eltchat
theteacherjames 10:02 PM @Noreen_Lam I prefer Tweetdeck for #eltchat. Use hootsuite the rest of the time.
DinaDobrou 10:03 PM @leoselivan @SophiaMav @tykendall Same here. #ELTchat
eprofessoruk 10:03 PM Accents and dialect British Library http://t.co/m7kDRosH #ELTchat
designerlessons 10:03 PM @theteacherjames haha, I think it's just I feel I'm missing NS conversations sometimes - ETs tend to simplify, remove slang #eltchat
Noreen_Lam 10:04 PM @theteacherjames Yeah but last time i couldn't find right version of Tweetdeck4 my OS...Tweetchat was good but thought i'd try HS. #eltchat
Timek 10:04 PM Jennifer Jenkins on shifting to ELF: http://t.co/4Z7XzqtI #eltchat
Marisa_C 10:04 PM Well thank you all for your lively contributions to this #ELTchat and thank you @SueAnnan for offering to do the summary :-)
esolcourses 10:04 PM RT @CELT_Athens: If new to #ELTchat or have not added your details to our Ed Directory, please fill in this online form http://t.co/N9y0R13d
SueAnnan 10:04 PM Thanks for another great #ELTchat  Thanks to all and great moderators too
reasons4 10:04 PM Thank you for A fascinating #eltchat. You look great on my new tv.
Shaunwilden 10:04 PM phew and we're done #eltchat
Timek 10:04 PM @eannegrenoble Thanks Elizabeth #eltchat
theteacherjames 10:04 PM @designerlessons True, it's good to keep in touch with the motherland. I listen to lots of podcasts, so I have a reasonable idea. #eltchat
leoselivan 10:04 PM @hoprea it is :) but I shared your blog post! #eltchat
hoprea 10:04 PM @Marisa_C :( I really thought I'd be able to make it today… #ELTChat Guess I'll have to go through the summary yet again!
theteacherjames 10:05 PM @Noreen_Lam What version of OS do you have? #eltchat
SueAnnan 10:05 PM @TyKendall  when did we say that? LOL #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10:05 PM @SueAnnan @Marisa_C oh yes badges ......#eltchat
TyKendall 10:05 PM #eltchat yeah cheers everyone and thanks for admitting British English is the best!! ;-) ;-)
theteacherjames 10:05 PM @Noreen_Lam Of course I forgot! #eltchat
SueAnnan 10:05 PM @Marisa_C  will be interesting to read back through the tweets. Do I get a badge, Miss? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 10:05 PM @hoprea sorry Henrick - next weep perhaps?  #ELTChat
SueAnnan 10:06 PM @Shaunwilden  yes it chucking it down here and I'm pooped #eltchat
SophiaMav 10:06 PM Thank you all for a fascinating  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 10:06 PM @SueAnnan  #ELTchat I will count how many you ve done :-D and see what colour u get
Shaunwilden 10:06 PM My word that was quite the #eltchat  am knackered now and its still raining cats and dogs
Marisa_C 10:06 PM @SueAnnan oops u reminded me to send badges to Shaun for his approval - :-)  #ELTchat
fiddlegrrl 10:06 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Free Technology for Teachers http://t.co/v0fJdQcW #esl #eltchat
TyKendall 10:06 PM @SueAnnan #eltchat oops that was in my head lol :-)
SueAnnan 10:07 PM @designerlessons  or its depend... #eltchat
chiasuan 10:07 PM Thanks for a great #eltchat everyone. And thanks to all the moderators! I'd love to have a copy of the summary!
SophiaMav 10:07 PM RT @DinaDobrou: Should get going #ELTchat Thank you mods @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C and @SueAnnan our summary writer. Gnight! #ELTchat
jankenb2 10:07 PM #eltchat Great conversation.
TyKendall 10:07 PM #eltchat it's so bad here the ducks can actually SWIM across the field, no lie!
designerlessons 10:07 PM @theteacherjames  Once I start saying "I am agree" it's all over for me. #eltchat
Marisa_C 10:07 PM @Shaunwilden  #eltchat Every cloud has a silver lining :--)
DinaDobrou 10:07 PM Should get going #ELTchat Thank you mods @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C and @SueAnnan our summary writer. G'night!
elawassell 10:07 PM “@SueAnnan: Thanks for another great #ELTchat  Thanks to all and great moderators too†thank you all!
designerlessons 10:07 PM @theteacherjames that's a good tip. I'm just worried I'm internalising Spanglish. #eltchat
chiasuan 10:08 PM RT @theteacherjames: Great resource for global varieties of English: http://t.co/hL5Bpuhd. Bit late, sorry. #eltchat
Marisa_C 10:08 PM @SophiaMav good night Sophaki mou and @chiasuan  and Dina @DinaDobrou  #ELTchat and Jonny boy,...
SueAnnan 10:08 PM @chiasuan  will be done in a couple of days max #eltchat
Shaunwilden 10:08 PM Ok anymore relevant tweets, am off to get the transcript #eltchat
Timek 10:08 PM @Marisa_C Thanks Marisa, I think it would be a good idea to have a focused chat sometime on ELF subtopics like Grammar, Pragmatics #eltchat
theteacherjames 10:08 PM Great resource for global varieties of English: http://t.co/hL5Bpuhd. Bit late, sorry. #eltchat
pacogascon 10:09 PM Missed #eltchat today :( @Marisa_C Just read ur twit. Maybe uve already mentioned @sandymillin grt post on UK accents http://t.co/DaDwQnIw
TyKendall 10:09 PM #eltchat be sure to include my totally irrelevant tweet about our ducks swimming across the field!@Shaunwilden
Marisa_C 10:09 PM @Timek You can suggest this as a topic next week or later and we will talk abt it if people vote for it - for sure !  #eltchat
reasons4 10:09 PM We didn't really define globish in #eltchat but @michaelegriffin did in a guest post early and in only 140 words http://t.co/ZSvL14Bb
AnaCristinaPrts 10:09 PM RT @jimscriv: I've never met a student whose ambition was to learn an "impoverished" version of English - but maybe that reflects the sts I meet. #eltchat
SophiaMav 10:10 PM RT @Shaunwilden: My word that was quite the #eltchat  am knackered now and its still raining cats and dogs > absolutely :) #ELTchat
leoselivan 10:10 PM @esolamin as I said it's incredibly charming but nobody really uses it anymore tho" @jimscriv thinks otherwise :) #eltchat
Marisa_C 10:10 PM @pacogascon no haven't but thanks for sharing it  #eltchat
leoselivan 10:11 PM RT @reasons4: We didn't really define globish in #eltchat but @michaelegriffin did in a guest post early & in 140 words http://t.co/SJcregEP
jimscriv 10:11 PM @leoselivan But that @jimscriv is a dinosaur ... #eltchat
IsilBoy 10:11 PM Just blogged: "Word Clouds: Wordle, Wordsift & Tagul" http://t.co/SN0tyP4M #eltchat #edtech
Timek 10:11 PM ppl interested in this area should also check out VOICE corpus and get the Seidlhofer book http://t.co/cH985f79 #eltchat
jimscriv 10:11 PM @TyKendall What about the dogs? And cats? #eltchat
Marisa_C 10:11 PM @chiasuan  #eltchat no worries - Shaun will include some late tweets with links too am sure :-)
sandymillin 10:12 PM @pacogascon Just realised I missed #eltchat too! Thanks for the mention :)
SophiaMav 10:12 PM RT @Marisa_C: @Timek You can suggest this as a topic next week or later and we will talk abt it if people vote for it - for sure !  #ELTchat
theteacherjames 10:12 PM RT @chiasuan: Thanks for a great #eltchat everyone. And thanks to all the moderators! I'd love to have a copy of the summary!

 

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