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Demand High Teaching How to Foster it and How Far we should go

Page history last edited by Marisa Constantinides 12 years ago

Transcript for #ELTchat on 28/03/2012 with Jim Scrivener as guest moderator 

 

demand high teaching.docx  (transcript in word format) 

 

 

username 

date

time

status

teacherphili

28/3/2012

1:53 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv is our guest moderator today on #ELTchat !!!! We are thrilled to be discussing demand-high teaching with him! Join us in 9 mins!!

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:53 P.M.

#ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   1) @jimscriv is going to start the discussion with a few tweets including the main points of his talk/idea

esolcourses

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   2) Please wait till @jimscriv finishes his introduction to topic before you start tweeting madly

bamarcia

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat IMPORTANT! 1) @jimscriv is going to start the discussion with a few tweets including the main points of his talk/idea

esolcourses

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT! @jimscriv is going to start the discussion with a few tweets including the main points of his talk/idea

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

#ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   2) Please wait till @jimscriv finishes his introduction to topic before you start tweeting madly

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

6 minutes to #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   1) @jimscriv is going to start the discussion with a few tweets including the main points of his talk/idea

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

1:54 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv is our guest moderator today on #ELTchat !!!! We are thrilled to be discussing demand-high teaching with him! Join us in 9 mins!!

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

1:55 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: special treat on #ELTChat Jim Scrivener is our guest! Join us in 20min! Plz Rt! Demand-high teaching: how to foster it?

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:55 P.M.

#ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   3) Then you can attack @jimscriv with any questions you like but be nice, he's not a regular on #ELTchat

bamarcia

28/3/2012

1:55 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   2) Please wait till @jimscriv finishes his introduction to topic before you start tweeting madly

iHiND82

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

@Marisa_C 2 PM Kuwait #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

@Marisa_C can you let us know when the intro is finished? #eltchat

esolcourses

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT! 3) Then you can attack @jimscriv with any questions you like but be nice, he's not a regular on #ELTchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   3) Then you can attack @jimscriv with any questions you like but be nice, he's not a regular on #ELTchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   2) Please wait till @jimscriv finishes his introduction to topic before you start tweeting madly

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   1) @jimscriv is going to start the discussion with a few tweets including the main points of his talk/idea

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

1:56 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   3) Then you can attack @jimscriv with any questions you like but be nice, he's not a regular on #ELTchat

TeachEslToday

28/3/2012

1:57 P.M.

GOOD TEACHERS!! Solve this problem!!  Your students are working in pairs over a project when...http://goo.gl/d8s66   #eltchat #esl #teaching

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

1:57 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: Some required reading by @jemjemgardner before today's #eltchat with @jimscriv : http://t.co/nPSFtj4g

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:57 P.M.

@touqo I will if I can guess #eltchat

teacherphili

28/3/2012

1:57 P.M.

Hi! this is my first time on #eltchat following meeting the team at #iatefl  I also met @jimscriv on a number of occasions there

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

@teacherphili Hi Phil, welcome! :) #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

@teacherphili #eltchat Hold onto your hat, in that case, and get your fingers poised... it can get hectic but it's great!

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

@LukeMeddings Are you going to be around for #eltchat today? I'd imagine you'd have some very interesting questions for Jim.

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Taps virtual twitter microphone and mumbles "testing testing" #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

@jimscriv what's ur topic !? #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

Taps virtual twitter microphone and mumbles "testing testing" #eltchat

bamarcia

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: Some required reading by @jemjemgardner before today's #eltchat w/ @jimscriv : http://t.co/nPSFtj4ghttp://bit.ly/HkQUTz

eltbakery

28/3/2012

1:58 P.M.

@teacherphili Great you're joining #ELTChat for the first time! Welcome!

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:59 P.M.

@jimscriv Hi Jim! #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

1:59 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets are dedicated to #ELTchat with guest mod reknown ELT author Jim Scrivener @jimscriv on twitter pls RT

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

1:59 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   3) Then you can attack @jimscriv with any questions you like but be nice, he's not a regular on #ELTchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

1:59 P.M.

For the next hour my tweets are dedicated to #ELTchat with guest mod reknown ELT author Jim Scrivener @jimscriv on twitter pls RT

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

I'm in a hotel in Philadelphia and the wifi seems a bit wobbly, so forgive me if I suddenly disappear! #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

#eltchat Hi Jim

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

@jimscriv Welcome to #eltchat Mr S :-) So thrilled you have agreed to join us for this highly interesting topic

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Taps virtual twitter microphone and mumbles "testing testing" #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Apparently today's #eltchat is likely to be on Demand-High ELT. It starts at 12 GMT (=1PM UK) (=8AM Philadelphia!). Join in!!

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:00 P.M.

Hello #eltchat world!

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:01 P.M.

Hello all and esp @jimscriv #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:01 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat  IMPORTANT!!!!!!!   2) Please wait till @jimscriv finishes his introduction to topic before you start tweeting madly

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:02 P.M.

Communicative techniques used ritualistically as if we've forgotten purposes eg put sts in grps; sts talk; T stops moves on. Why?  #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:02 P.M.

@teacherphili Welcome aboard! Glad you chose to join us. Drop me a line if you need a hand. #eltchat #iatefl

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:02 P.M.

The argument for Demand-High ELT is that most teaching nowadays seems to have become fun & friendly but largely unchallenging.  #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:02 P.M.

@jimscriv Please do and give me a sign when your introduction is over #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:02 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat Hi there! Am going to try to lurk, join in and meet a writing deadline all at the same time...here's hoping

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Coursebooks are very good nowadays. But that means that they do the teaching. #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: Some required reading by @jemjemgardner before today's #eltchat with @jimscriv : http://t.co/nPSFtj4g

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

We lack the real training in facilitation skills to work with ALL sts in class, to get real interaction going.  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

RT @yearinthelifeof: Can we get a summary for those who don't know what we're talking about? #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Contemporary Ts seem to avoid "hands on" work on language.  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

Ts, especially recently trained, defer to book and become just classroom managers.  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

Coursebooks are very good nowadays. But that means that they do the teaching. #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

Can we get a summary for those who don't know what we're talking about? #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

Contemporary Ts seem to avoid "hands on" work on language.  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:03 P.M.

For the next hr my tweets dedicated to #ELTChat w/ guest @jimscriv Topic: Demand High Teaching: How to Foster It #IATEFL

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: But Demand-High isn't a negative argument. It's a positive assertion that it's ok to "teach".  #eltchat

teacherphili

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

@theteacherjames thanks, i've put my essay to one side for an hour... tweeting from Uni of Warwick Library #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

That a small shift in attitude - towards higher expectations - can make an astonishing difference to the quality of classroom life. #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

@jimscriv Hi, Jim #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

That there are some great techniques we can use to get closer to where the learning is going on.  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: We lack the real training in facilitation skills to work with ALL sts in class, to get real interaction going.  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

But Demand-High isn't a negative argument. It's a positive assertion that it's ok to "teach".  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:04 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Ts, especially recently trained, defer to book and become just classroom managers.  #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:05 P.M.

@jimscriv Great thanks and good your have ended with a question -  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:05 P.M.

That's the intro! #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:05 P.M.

Mainly: Is where we are really where we want to be? Or have we just ended up here somehow? #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:05 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: We lack the real training in facilitation skills to work with ALL sts in class, to get real interaction going.  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:05 P.M.

It is quite deliberately provocative and openly a campaign of sorts to try and get some discussion going #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

#eltchat Hope it isn't 'most' ts working in unchallenging way- but certainly is something I see in inservice trainees too often #eltchat

RchTodaysLrnr

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

T's have to be willing to go to bat for their kids and, sometimes, even defy the administration where I am for hands on learning #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

Sounds like "we" want a return to old-school, grammar school style teaching? #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat I think if u'r starting frm EFL or frm mainstream school ELT, 2 get 2 the same place, u'r starting frm v different places

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

For the next hour will be  my tweets will be dedicated to #ELTChat w/ guest @jimscriv

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

May I ask everyone who has follow @jimscriv 's introduction to say if this is how they also see themselves? As demand-low teachers? #ELTchat

teflgeek

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

deliberately provocative?   not half! #eltchat  (Hi all!)

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:06 P.M.

I get the feeling that we have drifted into a sort of dead-end #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof here are some useful links 1) http://t.co/EENX4yrv 2) http://t.co/oGboWoeW 3) http://t.co/ACuxyQWr  #ELTchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

@jimscriv so are u saying Ts are paying lip service to techniques and are just going thru the motions but not really teaching #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Everyone means well but somehow we have lost touch with where the learning is going on #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

#eltchat Mainstream school ELT isn't fun-driven, it's exam-driven hoop-jumping rather than lifelong learning

YMHFA

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Mainly: Is where we are really where we want to be? Or have we just ended up here somehow? #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

RT @louisealix68: Sounds lk "we" wnt a return 2 old-school, grammar skool style teaching? #eltchat No, dont think that's wht Jim means

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Everyone means well but somehow we have lost touch with where the learning is going on #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Mainly: Is where we are really where we want to be? Or have we just ended up here somehow? #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:07 P.M.

Everyone means well but somehow we have lost touch with where the learning is going on #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@theteacherjames Yes. Spot-on #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@jimscriv This depends on who is in my class. #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

#eltchat ive noticed a reluctance 2 correct students. I always say that U (the teacher) may B the only person who will do ths 4 them

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

#eltchat politically correct to praise a lot?

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

#eltchat Thanks Jim. How do we support new teachers to end the dead-end drift without overwhelming them?

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@Marisa_C  @jimscriv in theory, I see myself as a "demand high" teacher *but* in some contexts, it isn't always practical/possible #ELTChat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@jimscriv Do you think that we've drifted into a touchy feely style because we've incorrectly associated engagement with fun? #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@Marisa_C @jimscriv There is a culture of praising when it isn't fully due, I'd say - hard to separate from 'encouragement' #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

RT @antoniaclare: Hi Jim +all - my experience is that gd teachers manage the cognitive load well, but it's not always the case #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

Hi Jim +all - my experience is that gd teachers manage the cognitive load well, but it's not always the case #eltchat

teflgeek

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@jimscriv - does demand high teaching match with learner expectations or wants? #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:08 P.M.

@jimscriv hard question to be answered #eltchat waiting for replies

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

#eltchat certainly it is good idea to start looking more at Learning going on than Teaching

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

think is huge diff  between 'types' of ss and needs. Teachers differentiate in questions/feedback. Good ones know what pupils want. #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

I think we need to treat students like adults (if they are) and challenge them in every way #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

#eltchat Teachers freq. seem to want to avoid heads-down, silent work.

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

I've had the chance 2 'revisit' techniques, approaches and classroom applications by training new Ts, we sometimes forget that #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @BobK99: @Shaunwilden  #eltchat Hmm Not sure why we need a new term. Is DHT just expecting the most from your students?

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

RT @yearinthelifeof: thr is a culture of praising when it isn't fully due, I'd say - hard 2 separate from 'encouragement' #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

RT @BobK99: @Shaunwilden  #eltchat Hmm Not sure why we need a new term. Is DHT just expecting the most from your students?

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

RT@teflgeek  @jimscriv does demand high teaching match with learner expectations or wants? >>Or needs  #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof I see encouragement as valuable. Feedback as essential. Praise as mostly harmful. #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

#eltchat I also see myself as a demand high teacher and trainer

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

The problem is some schools have a demand-low policy and if teachers want to keep their jobs they have to go with the flow? #ELTchat

BobK99

28/3/2012

2:09 P.M.

@Shaunwilden  #eltchat Hmm Not sure why we need a new term. Is DHT just expecting the most from your students?

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

I think I am demand-high in terms of the subjects we discuss, but I could demand more of my students linguistically. Trying though! #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @yearinthelifeof I see encouragement as valuable. Feedback as essential. Praise as mostly harmful. #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: For the next hr my tweets dedicated to #ELTChat w/ guest @jimscriv Demand High Teaching: How to Foster It #IATEFL

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @BobK99: @Shaunwilden #eltchat Is DHT just expecting the most from yr stds? Think yes, but also abt 'getting stuck in'

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

@jimscriv hit anywhere you can aim  #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

@jimscriv Dont worry we can follow up later on anything we missed :-) #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

@jimscriv maybe deferring to book isn't all bad, if it leaves more time to allocate to more challenging tasks with pupils? #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

@Shaunwilden we used to call this 'having high expectations of our Ss' and research suggests if you do,ss rise UP to ur expectation #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @yearinthelifeof I see encouragement as valuable. Feedback as essential. Praise as mostly harmful. #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

My goodness this is flying at me so fast - many good points -  I don't know where to start!  #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

We also have the difficulty of judging what is demand high of an elementary and what it is for, say, an upper int student #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:10 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames:...we've drifted into a touchy feely style because we've incorrectly associated engagement with fun? #eltchat

bealer81

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

Teachers need to slow down and learn to stop meeting targets in course books. Focus on what's happening, then and there. #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

@jimscriv maybe bcoz we're not intrested in their motive of learning or cant make it clear #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

RT @fionamau: RT @theteacherjames: @jimscriv ... incorrectly associated engagement w fun? #eltchat > This implies dodgy training & lack of indep thought

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

Demand high cognitively or linguistically?Some lessons put both at elementary level. #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

@touqo I'm not arguing against cbooks. I like many of them &would choose to use them. But the T has to OWN the book, not operate it #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

@fionamau fully agree on this evidence of dodgy training - cheap online weekend TEFL training  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: Some required reading by @jemjemgardner before today's #eltchat with @jimscriv : http://t.co/nPSFtj4g

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/F7dQ3vIt

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

#eltchat Vague feedback - positive or negative - is not useful.

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: @jimscriv ... incorrectly associated engagement w fun? #eltchat > This implies dodgy training & lack of indep thought

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:11 P.M.

@teflerinha @yearinthelifeof I really like how they separated praise, encouragement and feedback #ELTchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

@fionamau @jimscriv There's a misunderstanding that just because they look like they are enjoying themselves, they must be learning #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

Maybe afraid, or maybe comfortable w all there is available. RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat are teachers afraid to demand high linguistically?

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @fionamau: RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat I also see myself as a demand high teacher and trainer > Me too. Of myself, my students & trainees. Why aim low?

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @teacherphili: demand-low or average teaching is infectious in institutions where there is blame culture  #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat I also see myself as a demand high teacher and trainer > Me too. Of myself, my students & trainees. Why aim low?

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

#eltchat are teachers afraid to demand high linguistically?

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

#eltchat are teachers afraid to demand high linguistically?

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

We need to ensure the level of challenge is right in so many ways (not too heavy linguistically) not too light (content) #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Study showed (Butler 1988) that comments on work more effective than grades or grades & comments.

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

We need to ensure the level of challenge is right in so many ways (not too heavy linguistically) not too light (content) #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Study showed (Butler 1988) that comments on work more effective than grades or grades & comments.

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/k0BvRmkm

teacherphili

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

demand-low or average teaching is infectious in institutions where there is blame culture (-> the institution or students) #eltchat

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

How does 'demand-high ELT' sit with differentiation? Seems a demand too high. I'm already stretch as far as I can be sometimes #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:12 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: But Demand-High isn't a negative argument. It's a positive assertion that it's ok to "teach".  #eltchat

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

RE: Praise is mostly harmful - see book by Alfie Kohn: Punished by Rewards abt negative effect of grades on stud. motivation #ELTchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

Do sts like what we do? What if we do more? How will they feel then? I often find they love it. #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

@jimscriv U mean T has to master the book? Agreed. Actually it helps to concentrate on the essential and leave more to interaction #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: in theory, I see myself as a "demand high" teacher *but* in some contexts, it isn't always practical/possible #ELTChat

AnaCristinaPrts

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Ts, especially recently trained, defer to book and become just classroom managers.  #eltchat

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

Stretched** #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C:  we used to call this 'having high expectations of our Ss' research suggests if you do,ss rise UP to ur expectation #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat How do u distinguish between positive feedback and praise?

AnaCristinaPrts

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: But Demand-High isn't a negative argument. It's a positive assertion that it's ok to "teach".  #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

i think demand high can be for any kind of student, low or high ability, just have to differentiate the demand #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

@bealer81 I like that wording. I think schools, ministries etc do a great disservice to Ts by imposing targets - so many units a wk #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:13 P.M.

@harrisonmike  I think it's closely connected- it's about providing the right amount of challenge for each student I think #eltchat

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@jimscriv @bealer81 Or having to enroll students on a course knowing that they are going to pass the final exam #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@theteacherjames @fionamau @jimscriv I guess being engaged does not mean being all smiles, engagement has to do with brain activity #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

there was emphasis on going back to what we do well at #iatefl this year does this suggest that initial training has gone awry? #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@jimscriv I like this 'spurious fun' phrase - all ha ha but no Aha!!!!  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @trylingual: Do sts like what we do? What if we do more? How will they feel then? I often find they love it. #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@fionamau #eltchat Think it's about not giving indiscriminate praise- which means nothing

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @theteacherjames  lessons shld be enjoyable - but that comes from engagement with real learning - not spurious "fun" #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @nickkiley: #eltchat Need to be careful - Some teachers see DHT as more teacher grammar presentation. Might it be better as 'Demand High Learning'?

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @nickkiley: #eltchat Need to be careful - Some teachers see DHT as more teacher grammar presentation. Might it be better as 'Demand High Learning'?

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@harrisonmike Interesting queston - presumably ideas of ZPD help here - working high within learner's level.  #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Teachers freq. seem to want to avoid heads-down, silent work. > Often too much 'stuff' in bk to allow time for it

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

#ELTChat @esolcourses good point Sue! Can you think of any of these situations?

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

RT @harrisonmike: How does 'demand-high ELT' sit with differentiation? I'm already stretch as far as I can be sometimes #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

@theteacherjames  Yes- of course lessons shld be enjoyable - but that comes from engagement with real learning - not spurious "fun" #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:14 P.M.

#eltchat Need to be careful - Some teachers see DHT as more teacher grammar presentation. Might it be better as 'Demand High Learning'?

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

@nickkiley The trouble with any term is that it's open to interpretation.  Inevitable. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv I like this 'spurious fun' phrase #eltchat - when a teacher says this will be fun, I always ask fun for who

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @nickkiley: #eltchat Need 2B careful - sum teachers C DHT as more teacher grammar presentation. Might B better as 'Demand High Learning'?

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

@jimscriv It's not the enjoyment that's the problem, it's the assumption. #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @phil3wade ...challenge them in every way #eltchat > All sts should be treated like 'achieving students' rather than like slowies.....

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden:  does this suggest that initial training has gone awry? #eltchat > Maybe stagnated?

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv I like this 'spurious fun' phrase - all ha ha but no Aha!!!!  #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @JoeMcVeigh: Praise is mostly harmful - C book by Kohn: Punished by Rewards abt negative effect of grades on stud. motivation #ELTchat

andressatech

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

Discussion on twitter right now under hashtag  #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:15 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv I like this 'spurious fun' phrase - all ha ha but no Aha!!!!  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

@esolcourses  I think that there is a way of teaching one-to-one with everyone in a class. And making it useful for all. #eltchat

LearnEnglishGW

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

Download our free classroom materials? Lessons based on topical news stories : http://t.co/VAlTw4Bo #elt #eltchat #tefl #efl #esol #tesol

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

shld be sts doing work, not teachers! ;) @ShellTerrell  #ELTChat

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

@esolcourses Goal is that feedback is neutral or comes from students themselves, rather than mechanically from T. #ELTchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

#eltchat as in, that would avoid confidence issues

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Sometimes I think Tchrs equate more work w high demand  #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

#eltchat can be supportive AND avoid overhigh praise?

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

It involves an endless struggle between what Ts believe in and the philosophy of CB-based syllabus&exams imposed by the school? #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher: @theteacherjames @jimscriv engagement has to do with brain activity #eltchat > Yes, & challenge, motivation, interest.

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

Sometimes I think Tchrs equate more work w high demand but isn't a big part allowing Ss to think on their own & have that time? #ELTChat

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

Sounds like DHT is also demanding of the T - more time, effort, preparation, energy required. Can't just sit back and do same old. #ELTchat

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:16 P.M.

Agree overpraising is not good, but saying no or 'not good enough' may dent some s's confidence.  Can be a tough call sometimes #ELTChat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@teflerinha And there is a huge amount of that nowadays. Watch almost anyone's class. It's full of "Brilliant" "Fantastic" etc #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

RT @louisealix68: shld be sts doing work, not teachers! ;) #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  so demand high = student centred? #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: The trouble with any term is it's open to interpretation #eltchat > True. We should promote more critical thought in training?

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@louisealix68 But you can change your definition of demand based on who you are teaching. #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

RT @phil3wade: Demand high cognitively or linguistically?Some lessons put both at elementary level. #eltchat Indeed

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@ShellTerrell yes i am worried that this high demand upsurge is going to encourage the T who flood Ss with exercises and HD stuff  #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@jimscriv DHT means more teaching moments or periods in a lesson? #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

Is "deferring to book" easier to resort to in flipped or traditional classroom? #eltchat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@ShellTerrell I very much agree with this #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

I think of high demand as my Ss being able to do things with the language. I want to see what they can do. So more them than me #ELTChat

Julie_Cobb

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: We lack the real training in facilitation skills to work with ALL sts in class, to get real interaction going.  #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  Yes, definitely getting ss to do more for themselves. wait time very important for example #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:17 P.M.

@ElkySmith Even if it's only an unconscious objective. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

Yes bcuz its harder to work w/ lang than digest it. RT @LizziePinard: so demand high = student centred? #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

True @ShellTerrell Expect more from our SS and don't underestimate them by preparing less and listening more to them.  #eltchat

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

Would @jimscriv and Adrian Underhill like to come to my class with sts from 18-50yrs elem-pre-int, special needs, pre-literate sts #eltchat

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

Are we, to some extent, talking about the expectations we have of what Ss are required to do in class? Raising the bar?  #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

@trylingual  I like the wording. Yes - I think that probably is the idea. #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/F7dQ3vIt

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

@Marisa_C no me neither! #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher:  I guess being engaged does not mean being all smiles, engagement has to do with brain activity #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C:  i am worried that this high demand upsurge is going to encourage the T who flood Ss with exercises and HD stuff  #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:18 P.M.

@LizziePinard don't think terms are equivalent  #eltchat

BobK99

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@ShellTerrell tHANKS sHELL. #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

#eltchat can challenge without demotivating by doing it supportively maybe

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@jimscriv Does DLT create phatic communication? Does DHT take us and the sts deeper? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: think it can depend on level/context. IME, if you challenge less confident beginners too much, can be demotivating #ELTChat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

RT @LizziePinard: i think demand high can be for any kind of student, low or high ability, just have to differentiate the demand #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: think it can depend on level/context. IME, if you challenge less confident beginners too much, can be demotivating #ELTChat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@harrisonmike there is always a T who thinks the researchers don't teach enough to know anything and that's a fact!!!!  #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #eltchat also agreed abt seeing wht ss cn do. Struggling 2 communicate is gr8 4 developing language (output hypothesis)

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@feedtheteacher  Demand-High is definitely learner-centred and learning-centred #eltchat

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@ShellTerrell think it can depend on level/context. IME, if you challenge less confident beginners too much, it can be demotivating #ELTChat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:19 P.M.

@esolcourses I worked in a language school where "no" was a word we were not allowed to say to students. #eltchat Impossible mission IMHO

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @feedtheteacher  Demand-High is definitely learner-centred and learning-centred #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

goodness - this is going fast. Sounds like everyone's hot and bothered. Hard time keeping up! #eltchat

analomba

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

RT @Plurilinguismo El mapa del cerebro bilingΓΌe http://t.co/tMfGLt9e #actfl #ellchat #langchat #flteach #eltchat #parenting #latism #in

aClilToClimb

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

RT @bamarcia: RT @ShellTerrell: Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/mSSgOVNP

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

@esolcourses Agree. I think we have to be careful w Ss who have history of not feeling they "can" to give them shots they "can" #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher: @esolcourses I worked in  lang skool whr "no" was a wrd we wr not allowed 2 say 2 students. #eltchat Counterproductive 2

bamarcia

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/mSSgOVNP

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:20 P.M.

Picking up a comment way back from Shaun. Why new term? Only to start people talking. To coalesce some ideas and spur thinking. #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:21 P.M.

I am wondering about what is meant by "substandard" language and how ELF fits into this (if at all)  #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:21 P.M.

@jimscriv But dont you think we lose impetus by creating new terms basically we're talking about good hearty teaching #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:21 P.M.

@harrisonmike  I would LOVE to #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:21 P.M.

RT @teflerinha: #eltchat also agreed abt seeing wht ss cn do. Struggling 2 communicate is gr8 4 developing language (output hypothesis)

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:21 P.M.

#eltchat we can't demand anything - but can make clear how much we suspect each S is capable of and open their way towards that point.

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

The challenge must be sensitive and supportive. The aim is not to terrify! But helpful, coaching, focus makes a huge difference. #eltchat

andressatech

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@michaelegriffin I'm thinking it's that old story HOTS X LOTS #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan We can make our expectations clear and say why we expects std 2...because they can and we want 2 help them imprve #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@esolcourses  #ELTChat> or 'nearly"...

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@jimscriv   Isn't this called the Pygmalion effect? Lots of research, I think, on role of expectations and their effects.Hmm. . #ELTchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Any specific examples of a teacher doing high demand practice & what would not be? #ELTChat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: "Challenge" to acquire - if tasks dont's have enough challenge there is no acquisition  - #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@esolcourses @feedtheteacher  There's nothing wrong with a good 'no' #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

Any specific examples of a teacher doing high demand practice & what would not be? #ELTChat

bamarcia

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

Agree! RT @fionamau: RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat I also C myself as a demand high teacher & trainer > Me 2. Why  aim low?

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@feedtheteacher I was trained to say "that's not the answer we are looking for", rather than the "no" word. (sugar-coated "no" :-) #ELTChat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@ShellTerrell @esolcourses Yes, I think so #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: "Challenge" to acquire - if tasks dont's have enough challenge there is no acquisition  - #ELTchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #eltchat Seen so many teachers getting swept along by syllabus - doing 5 rushed readings per week instead of one good one.

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

@PatrickAndrews not when u re a little kid who just wants to play #eltchat - depends v much what they are

andressatech

28/3/2012

2:22 P.M.

Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

High demand not demanding. #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher trained to say "that's not the answer we are looking for", rather than the "no" word #ELTChat > Has this come from NLP?

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

Research has shown that it's better to praise effort rather than ability.  Recognises the work done. http://t.co/mFrSu1rC #eltchat

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

@jimscriv Seriously think the mainstream EFL and ESOL could learn lots from each other #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

RT @AnthonyGaughan: #eltchat we can't demand anything - but can make clear how much we suspect each S is capable of and open their way towards that point.

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Seen so many teachers getting swept along by syllabus - doing 5 rushed readings per week instead of one good one.

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

finding out Ss motive and make it clear even to them can rise DHT and help learning 2 b enjoyble  #eltchat

glazaro

28/3/2012

2:23 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: "Challenge" to acquire - if tasks dont's have enough challenge there is no acquisition  - #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan Nice wording! #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

#eltchat Wondering how could this be incorporated into e.g. CELTA...

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @AnthonyGaughan: #eltchat we can't demand anything - but can make clear how much we suspect each S is capable of and open their way towards that point.

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

@PatrickAndrews:  Yes - quality over quantity! #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

@ShellTerrell I love previous example of just get ss into pairs and groups without thinking then stop @ some random point in time #ELTchat

Snapper1853

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: \]dont you think we lose impetus by creating new terms basically we're talking about good hearty teaching #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @eltbakery: Maybe by guiding them, leading them towards an achievable goal,  adapting to their needs during the lesson.  #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @harrisonmike: @jimscriv Seriously think the mainstream EFL and ESOL could learn lots from each other #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @michaelegriffin: I am wondering about what is meant by "substandard" language and how ELF fits into this (if at all)  #ELTchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

Maybe by guiding them, leading them towards an achievable goal, but without a script, adapting to their needs during the lesson.  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

Within this seems that if we are going to challenge them we have to know where they are at. Our relationship w the Ss important #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  it is all about quality, when we demand very little from our ss it means we are demanding very little from ourselves #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

I had a CPE 121 yestday and I 'improved her writing'.She asked why basic words weren't OK and I said "you can do better" #ELTChat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

Grrr..#eltchat+planning+cooking+looking after sick child= V high-demand sitn today! ;)

Snapper1853

28/3/2012

2:24 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: "Challenge" to acquire - if tasks dont's have enough challenge there is no acquisition  - #ELTchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@ElkySmith So, we need to devote more time, and go 'deeper' with challenge #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Wondering how could this be incorporated into e.g. CELTA.It is, but then it gets lost achieving a tick box criteria

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@Marisa_C @ShellTerrell #ELTchat ime true of all learners not just ELT overchallenge = scare! Baby steps often necessary

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@ShellTerrell Example might B gving hints 2 get students 2 reformulate sthing rather thn immediately gving correct version yourslf? #eltchat

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@Shaunwilden  agree 'no' is fine in principle, though I think it can depend on the learner, & how often you say it @feedtheteacher #ELTChat

poet_economist

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: Jim Scrivener's Intro in a Google Doc in case you're just getting here #ELTChat http://t.co/F7dQ3vIt

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

Uncritical coursebook use promotes a kind of dependency in Ts and Ss - hand-holding all round - we all need a degree of challenge #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

RT @harrisonmike: @jimscriv Seriously think mainstream EFL & ESOL could learn lots frm each other #eltchat > & mainstream ed - all different

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@harrisonmike @jimscriv Yes and perhaps learn from teaching of other languages #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Seen so many teachers getting swept along by syllabus - doing 5 rushed readings per week instead of one good one.

sheoranking

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:25 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan Good point! I hadn't seen it that way #ELTChat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@BrunoELT Hi Bruno, not at all ;) #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@BrunoELT #eltchat Hi! Jump on!

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@andressatech I am sorry I don't think i follow you. HOTS X LOTS? #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

How do we challenge Ss without demotivating? Any specific things you do as a teacher? #ELTChat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@BrunoELT We've been waiting for you, so don't worry about it ;-) #eltchat

Skollyftet

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

β@bealer81: Teachers need to slow down and learn to stop meeting targets in course books. Focus on what's happening, then and there #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

RT @AnthonyGaughan: #eltchat we can't demand anything - but can make clear how much we suspect each S is capable of and open their way towards that point.

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

#eltchat maybe a good start is to question what we are doing  in class rather than just doing it for the sake of doing it.

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@nickkiley it was something like the "n" word and we were not allowed to mark tests or paper with red ink either #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@Shaunwilden Don't know. Giving it a name helped focus. Would we be discussing now if I'd stood up &said we need to teach better? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@esolcourses Have never met a learner that didnt like a bit of honesty #eltchat

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

β@LukeMeddings: Uncritical CB use promotes a kind of dependency in Ts and Ss - we all need a degree of challenge #eltchatβ Agreed!

BobK99

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv I like this 'spurious fun' phrase - all ha ha but no Aha!!!!  #eltchat :yeah - neat summary! ;)

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

Took some editing! RT @jimscriv @AnthonyGaughan Nice wording! #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat can challenge without demotivating by doing it supportively maybe

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@jimscriv It worked! People are talking! :-) #ELTChat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

This #eltchat is High Demand Chatting - difficult to keep up. Phew...

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan How would you accommodate learners with different capabilities? #eltchat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:26 P.M.

@jimscriv Often think the best lessons are the ones with least pages covered #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat Wondering how could this be incorporated into e.g. CELTA...

ricardgarcia5

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: "Challenge" to acquire - if tasks dont's have enough challenge there is no acquisition  - #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

@Marisa_C  @PatrickAndrews  I have two little kids - I see them DRIVEN by an urge to learn ... that school will slowly close down #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #ELTchat  baby steps & much praise for any succes

great_gracious

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

RT @bamarcia: RT @Shaunwilden: special treat on #ELTChat Jim Scrivener is our guest! Join us in 20min! Plz Rt! ... http://t.co/FiwoDNaK

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:27 P.M.

RT @JoHart: @Marisa_C @ShellTerrell #ELTchat ime true of all learners not just ELT overchallenge = scare! Baby steps often necessary > vtrue

great_gracious

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Taps virtual twitter microphone and mumbles "testing testing" #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

@LizziePinard that's very true! How to motivate varies from person to person. True also outside the teaching/learning context. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

RT @teflerinha: Ex. might B gving hints 2 get Ss 2 reformulate something rather than immediately gving the correct version yourself #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

#eltchat But maybe we also have to accept that motivation ebbs and flows and we are only partly responsible for it.

andressatech

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

RT @andressatech: @fionamau High Order Thinking SKills X Lower Order Thinking Skills #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

@phil3wade I think when the topic is 'tedious and insulting', we need to find a better angle from the sts (or change the book!) ;) #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

@esolcourses I strongly believe that we need to train Ts to (a) say "no" supportively (b) have techniques to help sts to "yes" #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

Goethe "if I accept u as u are, I make u worse; but if I treat u as I believe u r capable of being, I help u become that" #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

I have 2 little kids - I DRIVEN by  urge 2 learn that school will slowly close down  #eltchat >>> is it school or curriculum?

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

@jimscriv my point being all these things should be seen as norms #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher: all about quality, when we demand very little from our ss it means we are demanding very little from ourselves #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: "How do we challenge Ss without demotivating?" This should be our sole objective #ELTChat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

How do we demand more from learners who aren't motivated to be in the classroom? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:28 P.M.

@jimscriv Yes cos you have gravitas to do so - just don't like names - DHT, dogme etc all good things but the name gets in the way #eltchat

jcordovasjsd

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: A step towards critical thinking http://t.co/s4u1wjgh by @seburnt #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: #eltchat But maybe we also have to accept that motivation ebbs and flows and we are only partly responsible for it.

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: @jimscriv my point being all these things should be seen as norms #eltchat > Is onus on teacher trainers / DoSes, then?

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@ShellTerrell Looking at alternative forms and how these affect meaning (eg changing model forms) #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@ElkySmith No more spoonfeeding, let them develop ideas and shape them,less book-based teaching and more exploration? #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@ShellTerrell being straight foward and asking students to not to settle for good enough.#eltchat

JoeMcVeigh

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

What is role of cultivating drive to learn - destroyed by criticism=error correction? But need for some focus on form, right? #ELTchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

RT @michaelegriffin: love previous ex of just get ss into pairs and groups without thinking then stop @ some random point in time #ELTchat

philhart

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@ShellTerrell I ask them questions that I think may intrigue them. #ELTchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof #ELTchat - find key to THEM ie their motivator/interest

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof #ELTchat - find key to THEM ie their motivator/interest

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan Thank you Goethe! #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:29 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan Thank you Goethe! #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

Yes! In #30goalsEdu the challenge is to ask a ? w/o 1 answer RT @philhart: I ask them questions that I think may intrigue them. #ELTchat

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

@Shaunwilden what @jimscriv said :-) honesty is great, but correction needs to be sensitively and supportively done #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

@phil3wade Yes, but how do we equip new teachers with the skills to do this in e.g. 4 weeks? #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

touchy philly :-) #eltchat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

@jimscriv @Marisa_C Know exactly what you mean - massive problem in science teaching, I think #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

To REALLY listen to SS in and outside the classroom can do miracles with their learning and building their confidence.  #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

@nickkiley   Good question - i think it all goes back to a desire to be humanistic and touchie touchie feelie feelie  #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

DHT isnt demanding, it kindda needs using Ss personality in facilitating learning process #eltchat

BobK99

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

RT @bamarcia: Agree! RT @fionamau: RT @Marisa_C: #eltchat I also C myself as a demand high teacher & trainer > Me 2. Why  aim low? Exactly:)

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

Good enough according to what standard?  #ELTchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @nickkiley: RT @Shaunwilden: my point being all these things should be seen as norms #eltchat >Is onus on teacher trainers / DoSes, then?

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:30 P.M.

RT @nickkiley: RT @Shaunwilden: my point being all these things should be seen as norms #eltchat >Is onus on teacher trainers / DoSes, then?

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: I think to some extent discussing this point on #ELTchat is preaching to the converts - but good topic

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: what @jimscriv said :-) honesty is great, but correction needs to be sensitively and supportively done #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@ShellTerrell Choose subjects whicht the sts will find motivating. High demand will come easier from their own engagement. #ELTChat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@antoniaclare @phil3wade  why not do away with the books, sometimes, and ask our students to help us build on the topic? #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

I think the 'touchy feely' thing can definitely be insulting to some learners who give up their time and money to learn Eng #eltchat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@jimscriv @Marisa_C Seems to me most kids are fascinated by science and school can be inclined to bash this interest out of them #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

#eltchat DHT seems a post-CELTA step to me. A higher plane of evolution. How do Ts get there? Who wil support/guide them?

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

RT @PatrickAndrews: Looking at alternative forms and how these affect meaning (eg changing model forms) #eltchat

tarabenwell

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

Just joining #ELTChat -waiting for my flight to Philly for #TESOL12.

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@Shaunwilden But now it is a thing and I will have little angels on my shoulder tomorrow when/if I demand low.  #ELTchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

RT @feedtheteacher: being straight foward and asking students to not to settle for good enough. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@nickkiley yes i think they have a responsibility - more looking at techniques etc rather than here's a good activity for  #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:31 P.M.

@ElkySmith Without L motivation teaching is just entertainment. I cannot motivate anyone. Therefore I have to directly address it. #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: #ELTChat @esolcourses good point Sue! Can you think of any of these situations?

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

@trylingual #eltchat That's my feeling but I want to challenge my assumption there.

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

RT @louisealix68: is it only MA+ who can demand more? Can NQTs also manage? #eltchat<- Of course, anyone can do it…but who will help them?

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

HDT = we all aim for engaging lessons but too often either the overal pitch or the detail in monitoring/feedback is too low/fluffy #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

@trylingual Maybe post-CELTA, maybe it comes with experience as well. It's about questioning approaches, methods and techniques #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

#eltchat Got to drop out - too much to do in too little time :( Can't wait fr the summary, though. Have fun - or engagement at least.

great_gracious

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Mainly: Is where we are really where we want to be? Or have we just ended up here somehow? #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: Choose subjects which the sts will find motivating. High demand will come easier from their own engagemt. #ELTChat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

@Marisa_C  #eltchat Yes, I think often teachers are scared that they'll upset the students. There can be cultural sensitivities in play too

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

@feedtheteacher: I suspect that most sts, once they had stopped being scared, would not settle for less than good enough. #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

is it only MA+ who can demand more? Can NQTs also manage? #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

RT @antoniaclare: I think the 'touchy feely' thing can def be insulting to some learners who give up their time &money to learn Eng #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:32 P.M.

@PatrickAndrews I like that post celta but even on our celta we expect no shallow end processing of activities #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

@jimscriv Do you think that this demand low teaching may have to do with Ts getting really the low ened of the pay scale? #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

@phil3wade ...personal and relevant are key for any topic, yes #eltchat

great_gracious

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: I get the feeling that we have drifted into a sort of dead-end #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

@feedtheteacher Yes, in fact we shld expect sts to do this anyway (build on the topic) #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

Hate to say but maybe Tchrs have prob w/ HDT & support because in their certificate prog their trainer made them feel like an idiot #ELTChat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:33 P.M.

Humanism is hugely misunderstood in ELT. It is almost the opposite of "touchy feely". It is a muscular, robust way to help. #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

@trylingual Both. Esp Ts questioning themselves from results w their SS, researching and observing Ts. To really value feedback  #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

@JoshSRound Push them,challenge them, support them then let them lead #eltchat

createch1

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

As educators we do have an impact on our student's attitude towards learning. Aiming high is a required to help them succed #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: "Humanism" is hugely misunderstood in ELT. It's almost the opp of "touchy feely".It's a muscular, robust way to help. #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: "Humanism" is hugely misunderstood in ELT. It's almost the opp of "touchy feely".It's a muscular, robust way to help. #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:34 P.M.

Sorry so late will try and catch up #eltchat

mentormadness

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@ShellTerrell LOVE IT #ELTChat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

If it wasn't prob of some trainers not supporting Tchrs then this wouldn't be so famous http://t.co/JM8Vrjah #eltchat How do we change this?

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

I personally set out to try and get every learner to be the best they can be #eltchat

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@ShellTerrell haha true !#eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@nickkiley @Shaunwilden @jimscriv Onus is always on tchr/trnr we there to facilitate - can't expect learners know how to learn #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

Ok to demand high, but if teens don't play along? Teacher needs top class skills!  #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@ElkySmith Just as we shouldn't underestimate sts, we shouldn't estimate teachers. Needs to be discussed openly as part of f/back #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@ElkySmith You probably can't "train" in 4 weeks. That course is survival skills. But an experienced T needs more skills. #eltchat

edumazing

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

#eltchat Should we be demanding 'high' or demanding 'personal best'? High is not clear & measurable.

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@Marisa_C @jimscriv Woner if another reason is influence of "student evaluation forms" #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

RT @JoHart:  @Shaunwilden @jimscriv Onus always on teacher/trainer - there to facilitate - can't expect learners know how to learn  #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

RT @antoniaclare: I think the 'touchy feely' thing cn def B insulting 2 sum learners who giv up their time & $$ 2 learn Eng #eltchat Agree

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

@bealer81 agree, need to be brave enough in a way to do this - is this what some Ts lack? #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:35 P.M.

My sense is CELTA (no offense any1!) often pushes Ts 2 follow list of things to do/not do rather than focusing on Student Learning  #ELTchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

I think I expect a lot from them but mostly they accept this #eltchat

PatrickAndrews

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

@edumazing Yes, I think so - high depends on the learner #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

@phil3wade lol  #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

@Marisa_C @jimscriv What?So it's not hugging students and doing yoga in class? Oh pooh #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: "Humanism" is hugely misunderstood in ELT. It's almost opposite of "touchy feely". It's muscular, robust way to help. #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

@nickkiley thank you I missed addint #ELTchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:36 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: If it wasn't prob of some trainers not supporting Tchrs then this wouldn't be so famous http://t.co/JM8Vrjah #eltchat How do we change this?

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: In a study, they showed maj of teachers instructional style was influenced by those who taught them. #ELTChat > absolutely

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

@phil3wade  Very nice! #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

#eltchat What T standards are there post-CELTA? What are Ts goals after they have taught for a few years? Do they get lost in the soup?

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

In a study, they showed maj of teachers instructional style was influenced by those who taught them. #ELTChat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

@Marisa_C  Don't think it's pay. I've seen amazing teachers who earn peanuts. (And vice versa) #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

@BrunoELT Lol - some 'fun class activities' that encourage sts to see things in diff light, but have little linguistic value #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

RT @teflerinha: RT @teflerinha: @ElkySmith Can't teach this in 4 weeks, but can make the goal clear and model in own practice #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

RT @teflerinha: @ElkySmith Can't teach this in 4 weeks, but can make the goal clear and model in own practice #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:37 P.M.

@BrunoELT @antoniaclare @phil3wade Because that takes an incredible amount of time , effort and skill #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

should only high level teaching qualifications be accepted? e.g. Delta/MA? #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

There is a higher skillset for experienced Ts that is largely unnoticed and untrained. #eltchat

padgets

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  #ELTchat. Just popping in to say hi!   Will be moving from science to ESL next year!  Hope to join you more often!

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

@BrunoELT #eltchat  Yes! Agree with all of this bt  too long to retweet!

analomba

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

The Advantages of Being Bilingual http://t.co/BENHy0fr #actfl #langchat #ellchat #eltchat #parenting #latism #preschool #edchat #in

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @Marisa_C  Don't think it's pay. I've seen amazing teachers who earn peanuts. (And vice versa) #eltchat Motivation? Skill set?

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

#eltchat One feature of DLT is the 'lead up the garden path' method - Ts should be more explicit about what they do and how it benefits Ss.

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

RT @trylingual: #eltchat What T standards are there post-CELTA? What are Ts goals after they have taught for a few years?

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

@Shaunwilden @BrunoELT @antoniaclare Or is mix and matching copies of books to avoid copyright probs any better? #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: I think to some extent discussing this point on #ELTchat is preaching to the converts - but good topic

iHiND82

28/3/2012

2:38 P.M.

will check summry later thanx alot #eltchat must get up and get ready :) #LOVE

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@antoniaclare  Maybe helpful 2 think of fun class activities as just fun+perhaps worth doing but not think of them as all there is  #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@louisealix68 IMO At the end of the day it's not about he qualifications it is about the skills in the classroom #eltchat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@ShellTerrell that's only natural. And other things beside the pedagogical know-how impact that. Funnines of the T, charisma, etc. #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@trylingual #eltchat This is definitely where DoSes come in - observing Ts and forming understanding of what they are about, then guiding.

marekandrews

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat by involving ss in discussing what we've done,how can we do it better+what needs to be done next,learner responsibility.

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

Why do EAQUALS inspections etc ask experienced Ts to write lesson plans. They should be demanding to see them teach without plans. #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

@LizziePinard @jimscriv disagree as for many Ts this is all the training they get do 4 Ss sake it needs to promote DHT #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

RT @esolcourses: RT @Shaunwilden: RT @trylingual: #eltchat What T standards are there post-CELTA? What are Ts goals after they have taught for a few years?

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

Good point! RT @Shaunwilden: RT @trylingual: #eltchat What T standards are there post-CELTA? Ts goals after they have taught 4 a few years?

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: I think to some extent discussing this point on #ELTchat is preaching to converts <- Ha ha.Make #eltchat compulsory?

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @trylingual: #eltchat What T standards are there post-CELTA? What are Ts goals after they have taught for a few years?

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:39 P.M.

RT @bealer81: Get sts working for answers. Get sts to explain rules & meanings. Empower sts & give urself rm 2 c bigger picture #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

#eltchat maybe CELTA can promote DHT but we need to develop it ourselves

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

RT @phil3wade: I go into class w vague topic, areas to develop & questions to ask students to push them. Grt 4 2 hrs of discussion #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: @louisealix68 IMO At the end of the day it's not about he qualifications it is about the skills in the classroom #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

@jimscriv > to check they comply with/aim at curriculum/national standards? #eltchat

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

β@marekandrews: @jimscriv #eltchat by involving ss in discussing what we've done,how 2 do it better etc,learner responsibility.β Good idea!

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

@edumazing  Yes - High - is contextual to "you" -each learner learning to do the best that they can do - not satisfied with less #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

@jimscriv I go into class with a vague topic,areas to develop and questions to ask students to push them.Grt 4 2 hrs of discussion #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: thr is a higher skillset 4 experienced Ts that is largely unnoticed & untrained. #eltchat Think a gd DELTA course shld go hre

aClilToClimb

28/3/2012

2:40 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: @louisealix68 IMO At the end of the day it's not about he qualifications it is about the skills in the classroom #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

It's hard to get new Ts to reflect and question practices/methods on the Celta when there's only 4wks to teach them how to teach.  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

@padgets Fantastic! We will be happy to have your thoughts, ideas & experiences #ELTChat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: There is a higher skillset for experienced Ts that is largely unnoticed and untrained. #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

@Shaunwilden absolutely. But how to ensure quality of training? #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: @trylingual #eltchat This is definitely where DoSes come in - Yes, in good school...

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #ELTchat OUCH! sometimes I am happy to be a lit teacher not ESL

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

@LizziePinard @jimscriv which was why I reengineered our celta to demand more of trainees & thereby inculcate sense of what DHT IS #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat maybe CELTA can promote DHT but we need to develop it ourselves

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:41 P.M.

@michaelegriffin Agree, but think it's very important that Ts understand the value (or not) of what they're doing #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

@antoniaclare am not so sure - there are a lot of people out there working just with the 'bare minimum movements" #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

@antoniaclare Totally agree. I guess what I wanna say is fun or yoga can be   good and valuable choice(best when value understood) #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

@LizziePinard  I think CELTA trainees can only cope with so much. It's a survival intro. Sure, intro the idea  but expect "lag" #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

RT @jimscriv Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat | true.

bamarcia

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

Gr8 pt! How do we do this? RT @bethanyvsmith: teachers teach the way they were taught, 1 cycle we try to break in teacher Ed. #ELTChat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan #eltchat Encouraging to hear - can you give some examples?

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:42 P.M.

RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat maybe CELTA can promote DHT but we need to develop it ourselves Agree!

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@jimscriv A suggestion-come up with a series of DHT commandments. See #dogme for an example. #eltchat V.useful for post-CELTA Ts.

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@Shaunwilden ISO standard/teacher register a good idea? We have them over here! #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan @jimscriv Yes,I am very disappointed they don't.#eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@jimscriv agree 100% about lesson plans: assessment should focus less on what's been parcelled, more on what's being unwrapped #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

RT @JoHart: @ShellTerrell  - keep building networks of tchrs who think and pass on their ideas, strategies etc just like #ELTchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@jimscriv Why do EAQUALS do most of the things they do, e.g. demanding that classroom walls be clear of posters / pictures? #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  - keep building networks of tchrs who think and pass on their ideas, strategies etc just like #ELTchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@louisealix68 Well thats the unanswerable question- but courses can be too tick box orientated & fulfilling those takes over #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

@JoHart LOL! It's funny because it's true, Jo! Thanks for your incredible contributions. I know you've worked w tough groups #ELTChat

RchTodaysLrnr

28/3/2012

2:43 P.M.

fun doesn't have to=silly/light. My kids said "that was fun" after a particularly difficult discussion after they "got" it last wk #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat Such a shame that many DoSes get bogged down with admin stuff and this type of dev'ment is bottom of their priority list.

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

@Shaunwilden yes and no! but way for employer to know if certain standard achieved (incorporate portfolio/video) #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

@trylingual  Well - we started with an "issues" manifesto (see blog) but would like to mould them with others over time. #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

RT @LukeMeddings: agree abt lesson plans: assessment should focus less on what's been parcelled, more on what's being unwrapped #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: What can we do to get schools to support high demand teaching & not stick us to a rigid syllabus or benchmarks? #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

so *maybe* #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: @esolcourses @feedtheteacher  There's nothing wrong with a good 'no' #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

#eltchat so many instituations need to learn about DHT

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

What can we do to get schools to support high demand teaching & not stick us to a rigid syllabus or benchmarks? #ELTChat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

@jimscriv truly it all begins in the training classroom but the microclimate of institutions also plays an impotrant role #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:44 P.M.

@louisealix68 More tick boxes? #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

@BrunoELT the student as client is not an easy thing to achieve even with adults - let alone children  #ELTchat

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: What can we do to get schools to support high demand teaching & not stick us to a rigid syllabus or benchmarks? #ELTChat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

Yes, but I also see it as intrinsic motivation from the T. RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat so many instituations need to learn about DHT

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

@ElkySmith TTs try 2 attack emergent Lang from day1, no TP mats provided after TP2, etc. not where want 2b yet but getting there. #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

@michaelegriffin Yes, was struggling to explain in 40 characters #eltchat ;)

bamarcia

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

RT @BrunoELT: The true question is: How to make sts push forward when teachers themselves don't? #ELTchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

@ShellTerrell always feel a bit scared in here as not trained ESL just lit pesron - but for me so much in common learn so much from #ELTchat

BodyLogique

28/3/2012

2:45 P.M.

RT @LizziePinard: i think demand high can be for any kind of student, low or high ability, just have to differentiate the demand #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

As teachers we can make a difference with our learners but what about the institutions themselves? How do we influence them? #ELTChat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@jimscriv too true - but many of us involved in teacher ed programmes so a good topic for us to reflect on  #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@Marisa_C @BrunoELT It has to be both sides working together equally but it must be enjoyable too/mentally stimulating.#eltchat

marekandrews

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@antoniaclare @LukeMeddings +then really work with what is being unwrapped and make sure ss know we care about that+attend to it #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

RT @rliberni: @ShellTerrell  I think there's a lot of treadmill in ELT (& edu generally), often exam driven - more bits of paper #eltchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@jimscriv Build on it. DHT has obviously got some traction here. Would love to see it documented so it spread further. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

How can we get teacher training progs to be more supportive & exemplify how we can do HD vs teaching us how to teach grammar, etc? #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

One interesting thing is that I suspect many/most on here at #eltchat are already "demanding". But there is a massive world out there ...

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  I think there's a lot of treadmill in ELT (& edu generally), often exam driven - more bits of paper #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:46 P.M.

@trylingual @jimscriv But commandments eventually lead you to doing things for sake of the commandment - why not embrace a spirit #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

#eltchat Think there is a link to 'assessment for learning' in mainstream education- tho that is also being reduced to ofsted tickboxing

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@jimscriv That's the case every week, but here's where it starts! #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

#eltchat Think there is a link to 'assessment for learning' in mainstream education- tho that is also being reduced to ofsted tickboxing

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@jimscriv That's the case every week, but here's where it starts! #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@Marisa_C @BrunoELT Sorry, ... I'm lost.  Are we talking physical movements?  too much happening this #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@Marisa_C @BrunoELT Sorry, ... I'm lost.  Are we talking physical movements?  too much happening this #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

RT @fionamau: @ShellTerrell #eltchat Schools need 2 motivate their teachers & supprt their PD.A demotivated, blasΓ© or 'lost' teacher can't demand anything

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

RT @fionamau: @ShellTerrell #eltchat Schools need 2 motivate their teachers & supprt their PD.A demotivated, blasΓ© or 'lost' teacher can't demand anything

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@Marisa_C @BrunoELT #eltchat I think Ts sit and wait for PD to come to them. They often don't know where or when to start.

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@jimscriv you're welcome to come see us over here and see if we're the same #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: RT @rliberni: I think there's a lot of treadmill in ELT (& edu generally), often exam driven - more bits of paper #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@jimscriv Only problem with #eltchat = preaching to the converted

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #eltchat Schools need 2 motivate their teachers & supprt their PD.A demotivated, blasΓ© or 'lost' teacher can't demand anything

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

RT @rliberni: I think there's a lot of treadmill in ELT (& edu generally), often exam driven - more bits of paper #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:47 P.M.

I observe Ts round world. The vast majority of lessons are low-demand, fluffy, praise-inflated. #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@ElkySmith but isn't that the fault of 'demand-low" insitutions? #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: I observe Ts round world. The vast majority of lessons are low-demand, fluffy, praise-inflated. #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: @jimscriv too true - but many of us involved in teacher ed programmes so a good topic for us to reflect on  #eltchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @marekandrews: @LukeMeddings+then really work with what is being unwrapped and make sure ss know we care about that+attend to it #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@rliberni Or when I hear a teacher say they have to stick to a coursebk or syllabus or they get into a lot of trouble #ELTChat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@rliberni #eltchat Exactly. The 'enemy' isn't fun, fluffy classes, it's demotivating, distracting admin! Teacher focus is diverted to grades

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: @Marisa_C @BrunoELT #eltchat I think Ts sit and wait for PD to come to them. They often don't know where or when to start.

RchTodaysLrnr

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@ShellTerrell we need to promote from within OUR ranks, speaking long-term. #ELTChat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @yearinthelifeof: @jimscriv Only problem with #eltchat = preaching to the converted -  true but if the converted can go & convert

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof #eltchat Hmm…there are a few different perspectives here...

JoshSRound

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: @Marisa_C @BrunoELT #eltchat I think Ts sit and wait for PD to come to them. They often don't know where or when to start.

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  I'm lucky in that I drive my own train so everything I do is negotiated with the learners I have :-) #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  One of the aims we have IS to influence institutions. eg I'm doing opening plenary for EAQUALS next month. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@rliberni I agree Berni! It frustrates me, especially when I hear some Tchrs say their DOS have intercom on class to spy #ELTChat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

@rliberni I agree Berni! It frustrates me, especially when I hear some Tchrs say their DOS have intercom on class to spy #ELTChat

touqo

28/3/2012

2:48 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: One interesting thing is that I suspect many/most on here at #eltchat are already "demanding". But there is a massive world out there ...

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell Or when I hear a teacher say they have to stick to a coursebk/syllabus or they get into a lot of truble #ELTChat been there

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

@LizziePinard True! There's still this struggle. But it's possible to make changes inside the classroom and cope w institutions  #eltchat

tarabenwell

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof  I  hope to wear my #ELTChat tshirt at TESOL convention. Last time I went only a handful were even tweeting.

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

@jimscriv do you think that is what they expect you as observer would "demand" of them? #eltchat #fluffyteaching

createch1

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

The only way is constant PD @bethanyvsmith: teachers teach the way they were taught, 1 cycle we try to break in teacher Ed. #ELTChat"

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

RT @fionamau: #eltchat Schools need 2 motivate their teachers & supprt their PD.A demotivated, blasΓ© or 'lost' teacher can't demand anything

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:49 P.M.

RT @fionamau: @rliberni #eltchat Exactly. The 'enemy' isn't fun, fluffy classes, it's demotivating, distracting admin! Teacher focus is diverted to grades

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

RT @ElkySmith: @Marisa_C #eltchat Partly but in my experience Ts can take control even when the boss doesn't.

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #eltchat Hard in a sector where too many institutions r concerned abt bums on seats not quality. Like mobile phone companies

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

RT @eltbakery: True! There's still this struggle. But it's possible to make changes inside the classroom and cope w institutions #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

@Marisa_C #eltchat Partly but in my experience Ts can take control even when the boss doesn't.

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

I think Ts teach the way they believe they're asked to teach. The fault is not with Ts - it's in us: our training, inspections etc #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

@Shaunwilden @jimscriv Good point... that I was about to make :-) #eltchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

RT @JoHart: #ELTchat Inst issues everywhere! focus so much on "bums on seats" not on edu/learning - same here in Voc Ed literacy

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

RT @BrunoELT: start in class! Students will feel the diff and when another teacher comes they will ask for it! #ELTchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

RT @fionamau: @rliberni #eltchat Exactly.'enemy' isn't fun, fluffy classes, it's dmotivating, distracting admin! T focus diverted 2 grades

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

#ELTchat Inst issues everywhere! focus so much on "bums on seats" not on edu/learning - same here in Voc Ed literacy

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:50 P.M.

Maybe the models are all wrong - start any Monday, must do an elt exam at the end etc etc.. #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

@ShellTerrell #eltchat Getting + students into the classes matters more than quality etc offered 2 existing students. The 'Gotcha Culture'.

BodyLogique

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

Agree! RT @rliberni: we shouldn't accept that kind of behavior it's hardly motivating! & very distracting. #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

@ShellTerrell @fionamau #ELTchat schools edu inst esp public ones need to get & signs out of eyes!

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

RT @RchTodaysLrnr: we need to promote from within OUR ranks, speaking long-term. #ELTChat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

RT @rliberni: I'm lucky in that I drive my own train so everything I do is negotiated with the learners I have :-) #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

RT @rliberni: @ShellTerrell Lucky in that I drive my own train so everything I do is negotiated with my learners #eltchat > Me too, whoowhoo

louisealix68

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

thanks guys - outta here. Skype with supervisor. #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

RT @tarabenwell: @yearinthelifeof  I  hope to wear my #ELTChat tshirt at TESOL convention. Last time I went only a handful were even tweeting.

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:51 P.M.

Thanks Jim! RT @jimscriv: 1 of the aims we have IS to influence institutions. eg I'm doing opening plenary for EAQUALS next month. #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@jimscriv Too many steps,procedures,rules etc.No space for developing T's or Stdts #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@jimscriv True. Teachers carry around a lot of assumptions - DoSes need to investigate, identify and challenge these regularly. #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @Marisa_C: So this is a grassroots Reform movement you and i and all ts can introduce #ELTchat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

RT @antoniaclare: @BrunoELT @Marisa_C Perhaps we need to ensure that the institutions know how to recognise (+promote) gd teaching #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@theteacherjames  Lol #eltchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

RT @JoHart: #ELTchat Inst issues everywhere! focus so much on "bums on seats" not on edu/learning - same here in Voc Ed literacy

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: So this is a grassroots Reform movement you and i and all ts can introduce #ELTchat

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@BrunoELT @Marisa_C Perhaps we need to ensure that the institutions know how to recognise (+promote) gd teaching #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

True @BrunoELT Starting inside the classroom and then showing colleagues & institution the benefits of change. #eltchat

phil3wade

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@ShellTerrell @BrunoELT I used 2 get students transferring 2 my BE/EAP class just cos they wanted to be challenged.I never knew why #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

So this is a grassroots Reform movement you and i and all ts can introduce #ELTchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

RT @ArcadianTrail: Yes and in most cases all we rate the kids on is how well they stay on the treadmill!! #eltchat

createch1

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

It's not about qualifications but we need to find useful ways to evaluate what it's meaningful for sts to learn #eltchat"

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:52 P.M.

@teflerinha  many elt models are 'throughput driven, bums on seats  - must be better models we can find which allow us to do better #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

@jimscriv It's only the lazier teachers who will reject DHT. Who wouldn't want to make their job more interesting? #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

@fionamau @rliberni I'd just like to give more concrete help to Tchrs I train who tell me they can't bcuz of that kind of fear #ELTChat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

@Marisa_C It is intended as a "Push" campaign - to try and get discussion going, people thinking, courses changing,better lessons! #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

@Shaunwilden  personally I think change will be grassroots but we can't just grumble we need to find other ways that work better #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

how will I know if I am getting my hands dirty?  #ELTchat

trylingual

28/3/2012

2:53 P.M.

Have to run (to bed). Great topic. Thanks @jimscriv. #eltchat #qldelt

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

@feedtheteacher @rliberni You weren't only one who told me this. I've heard same from others :( #ELTChat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

RT @michaelegriffin how will I know if I am getting my hands dirty? When Ls lean back in chairs after class with tired happy faces  #ELTchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

#eltchat Also training can b too 'fluffy' -I always feel like Bad Cop on TT courses, cz I give Distinction rarely & expect a high level 4 it

antoniaclare

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

Great chatting to you all #eltchat See you later ;)

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Part of the aim is to address schools, ministries, quality boards etc and ask difficult qs of them. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

@fionamau @rliberni They want to try to be better for their learners but then they are held under tight microscope #ELTChat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

Part of the aim is to address schools, ministries, quality boards etc and ask difficult qs of them. #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

Experienced and Senior teachers have more 'credibility' in my institution to promote change. New Ts are constantly being observed #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

@jimscriv I think you're talking to the right #eltchat crowd

tarabenwell

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

@LizziePinard @ShellTerrell I'm sure I will hear that concern over and over from American teachers over the next few days. :) #ELTChat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:54 P.M.

#eltchat In FE obs points given for explaining H&S, writing objs on board etc but not much attempt to look at quality of teaching

harrisonmike

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@PatrickAndrews @jimscriv Definitely =) #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@rliberni #ELTchat even here where we have outcomes/evidence based there is still tendency to turn everything into exam/test

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@ShellTerrell (make themselves indispensable then try & change stuff) a la Linchpin? #eltchat

BobK99

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @antoniaclare: Great chatting to you all #eltchat See you later ;) !Same here - thyanks esp. to mods b

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan I like the sound (image) of that! Cheers!  #ELTchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @phil3wade: I used 2 get students transferring 2 my BE/EAP class just cos they wanted to be challenged. I never knew why #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

Most schools, parents, clients would like more demanding teaching, I suspect. Though "fun" has become the norm. #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @michaelegriffin how will I know if I am getting my hands dirty? When Ls lean back in chairs after class with tired happy faces  #ELTchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@jimscriv  the low-demand policy in order to keep "clients"/st happy.Schools as profitable business other than a place to educate #eltchat

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Part of the aim is to address schools, ministries, quality boards etc and ask difficult qs of them. #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

@ShellTerrell  they need to be empowered to do brilliant things within the restrictions I guess. #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: So this is a grassroots Reform movement you and i and all ts can introduce #ELTchat >> I love a good grassroots movement!!

esolcourses

28/3/2012

2:55 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: RT @jimscriv: Part of the aim is to address schools, ministries, quality boards etc and ask difficult qs of them. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

@BrunoELT LOL! Hmmmmm? Do I win a prize for guessing correctly? #ELTChat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

RT @fionamau: #eltchat Trainers can b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos -knock-on effect inclassm. 'Aim high' should be a life philosophy.

teflerinha

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

RT @fionamau: #eltchat Trainers cn b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos - has a knock-on effect in classroom. Aim high shld B a life philosphy.

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

@ElkySmith Those are the people we need to motivate or get out of our profession! #eltchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

@michaelegriffin You will feel it. Uncertainty. Having to think rather than auto-pilot. A real conversation. #eltchat

SimonGreenall

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

#eltchat  @jimscriv And part of our job is to make sure we train the people who end up in  ministries with  right skills set to do their job

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

RT @fionamau: #eltchat Trainers can b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos - has a knock-on effect in the classroom. '

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

#eltchat i think the supportive element of DHT is V V important

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

RT @rliberni:  they need to be empowered to do brilliant things within the restrictions I guess. #eltchat

jenverschoor

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

RT @BrunoELT: #ELTchat Hello everyone! Too late?> CanΒ΄t join you IΒ΄m in class. Have fun :-)

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

@tarabenwell Tara!!! Wish I was there to give you hug & say hi! But you can see @jimscriv in person! I think he's at TESOL #ELTChat

fionamau

28/3/2012

2:56 P.M.

#eltchat Trainers can b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos - has a knock-on effect in the classroom. 'Aim high' should be a life philosophy.

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

RT @rliberni: I personally set out to try and get every learner to be the best they can be #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan thanks we do have a volunteer but a second summary of such a rich chat would also be lovely #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

RT @fionamau: #eltchat Trainers can b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos - has a knock-on effect in the classroom. 'Aim high' should be a life philosophy.

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

RT @bethanyvsmith: it's also about changing preservice teachers perceptions of what teaching is & precedence for lifelong learning #eltchat

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @jimscriv I volunteer to write the summary for this one if noone else *demands* it #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

RT @rliberni: make themselves indispensable then try & change stuff) a la Linchpin? #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

@JoHart  such a drag freedom from exam allows so much more, let the learners choose if they want the exam (talking adults here) #eltchat

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

2:57 P.M.

@theteacherjames #eltchat Indeed :-)

rliberni

28/3/2012

2:58 P.M.

RT @theteacherjames: @jimscriv Absolutely. Most sts want to learn, they want to be taught & they expect to do some work! #eltchat yes !

JoHart

28/3/2012

2:58 P.M.

@rliberni #ELTchat Yes! I gather evidence throughout for lit but do so in spite of the demands of my inst -as long as I can evidence is OK

eltbakery

28/3/2012

2:58 P.M.

Agreed @Marisa_C A second summary would be perfect. #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:58 P.M.

@jimscriv Absolutely. Most sts want to learn, they want to be taught & they expect to do some work! #eltchat

ellenevhe

28/3/2012

2:58 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: RT @fionamau: #eltchat Trainers can b afraid 2 stomp on trainees egos -knock-on effect inclassm. 'Aim high' should be a life philosophy.

marekandrews

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

@ShellTerrell @bethanyvsmith #eltchat +getting pre-service trainees to reflect on+collect examples ofhow they weren't challenged+how it felt

jimscriv

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

@feedtheteacher This is the "baked bean" factory  approach to education #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

An incredible #ELTChat Huge thanks to @jimscriv for challenging us & for the support of awesome moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

Thanks to @jimscriv and all at #eltchat today - good session

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

#eltchat most ss want someone to believe they can and push them in the direction to achieve it

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @michaelegriffin You will feel it. Uncertainty. Having to think rather than auto-pilot. A real conversation. #eltchat

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

2:59 P.M.

@jimscriv the need for certification will often seem more than the need for quality, so the faster the st graduates the better #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

@RchTodaysLrnr LOL! Hmmm I'm trying to gain the force from Yoda & use Jedi Mind tricks ;-) #ELTChat

LizziePinard

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

#eltchat @jimscriv thanks all great session! i look forward to summarising :-)

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

#eltchat Thank you very much Jim, ELTChat people and everyone else.

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: An incredible #ELTChat Huge thanks to @jimscriv for challenging us & for the support of awesome moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

@yearinthelifeof by looking at them as individuals and not homogenizing expectations for whole class #eltchat #lockstepkillsdevelopment

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

Many thanks to @jimscriv and to all #ELTchat participants for joining in this great conversation!

great_gracious

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Delta courses "should" go there - but are so wound up in stress and checklists that they tend not to. #eltchat

teflerinha

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

#eltchat Thanks everyone! Enjoyed it, thought tweetdeck seemed overwhelmed at times- frustrating when can't fire tweet off

RchTodaysLrnr

28/3/2012

3:00 P.M.

on a lighter note @ShellTerrell, I hear hypnosis works wonders... We could always try that for a quick fix #eltchat

nickkiley

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

Very interesting discussion. Thanks @jimscriv - you achieved the thought-provocation. Unfortunately, missed second  half  #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

Huge thanks to @theteacherjames our podcast extraordinaire & @LizziePinard for volunteering to do the #ELTChat summary

jimscriv

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

That was overwhelming. Thanks for all the flood of comments. It seems that there may be something here worth arguing for. #eltchat

SimonGreenall

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

@jimscriv #ELTchat Many thanks too. and to the moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni and @ShellTerrell

touqo

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @feedtheteacher This is the "baked bean" factory  approach to education #eltchat

great_gracious

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Demand-high is the business of in-service development, peer observation, action research, supportive observations etc #eltchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:01 P.M.

@rliberni @theteacherjames @jimscriv #ELTchat - lucky you guys! Most of mine disengaged young literacy not ESL - often compelled 2 enrol :)

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

@ShellTerrell Thanks :-) #ELTChat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

MT @jimscriv: You'll feel it.Uncertainty.Having to think rather than auto-pilot.A real conversation >Thx!Will look 4 this tomorrow #ELTchat

jimscriv

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

Apologies to people whose comments I missed and didn't respond to. They seemed to be rolling in faster than I could read. #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

Thank you @jimscriv and everyone. Lots of things to think about and post-chat reflections coming up in many blogs that's for sure! #eltchat

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

@jimscriv There definitely is Jim. thanks for chatting with us today & making us think. #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

RT @SimonGreenall: @jimscriv #ELTchat Many thanks too. and to the moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni and @ShellTerrell

rliberni

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

@BrunoELT  tbh it should all be of a standard but not sure it is  #eltchat

fionamau

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

It's fair to say that was a Demand High #eltchat !! Sincerely regret leaving my glasses in the bedroom....

feedtheteacher

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

Thank you all for a great conversation. Loads to consider and I am looking forward to the summary #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

@jimscriv Thanks for taking the time to join us Jim #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

RT @marekandrews:  #eltchat +getting pre-service trainees to reflect on+collect examples ofhow they weren't challenged+how it felt

ElkySmith

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

@jimscriv #eltchat Best of luck in taking this to the higher powers - you're fighting the good fight :-)

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

#ELTchat ... do so want my learners to get motivations from somewhere somehow so keep trying ANYTHING!!

esolcourses

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

RT @Marisa_C: Many thanks to @jimscriv & all #ELTchat participants for joining in this gr8 conversation ] & to mods @Marisa_C & @Shaunwilden

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

3:02 P.M.

A furious hour, am sure there will be plenty of follow up over next few days -transcript will be up soon and summaries soon after  #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

@jimscriv We will have a summary posted and a transcript up so if there is further discussion we can take it to the blog  #eltchat

Shaunwilden

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

SwanDOS

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Most schools, parents, clients would like more demanding teaching, I suspect. Though "fun" has become the norm. #eltchat

marekandrews

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

#eltchat  thanks to all for a very enjoyable chat.

LukeMeddings

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: An incredible #ELTChat Huge thanks to @jimscriv for challenging us & for the support of awesome moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:03 P.M.

RT @mathiaspoulsen: I agree - fun is often hard (http://t.co/ykL58Lxi), though fun might not always be the most precise description #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

Beautiful! RT @JoHart: As always love #ELTchat - you guys help me to stay sane in my isolated literacy world :)

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @fionamau: It's fair to say that was a Demand High #eltchat !! Sincerely regret leaving my glasses in the bedroom....

fionamau

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

As always love #ELTchat - you guys help me to stay sane in my isolated literacy world :)

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: @jimscriv Thanks for taking the time to join us Jim #eltchat

ShellTerrell

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

kristianadi

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @ShellTerrell: What can we do to get schools to support high demand teaching & not stick us to a rigid syllabus or benchmarks? #ELTChat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: @michaelegriffin You will feel it. Uncertainty. Having to think rather than auto-pilot. A real conversation. #eltchat

rliberni

28/3/2012

3:04 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Right. Ready for a Demand-High Philly breakfast now! #eltchat > Enjoy TESOL conference & many thanks again!

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

tdsig

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

jimscriv

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

Right. Ready for a Demand-High Philly breakfast now! #eltchat

eltbakery

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

LOL Very true! RT @AnthonyGaughan: RT @fionamau It's fair to say that was a Demand High #eltchat !!

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

3:05 P.M.

RT @fionamau It's fair to say that was a Demand High #eltchat !!

Evry1attheTable

28/3/2012

3:06 P.M.

RT @barbsaka: Don't dare to teach if you aren't willing to learn (from @rliberni) #eltchat #iatefl

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

3:06 P.M.

Thanks all (especially @jimscriv and fantastic mods) for interesting, engaging and demanding #ELTchat #ELTchat

createch1

28/3/2012

3:06 P.M.

Congrats for your ELTon nomination :) This was my first #eltchat while walking to work. Challenging but wothwhile.

NickCoxinPurley

28/3/2012

3:06 P.M.

RT @jimscriv: Part of the aim is to address schools, ministries, quality boards etc and ask difficult qs of them. #eltchat

seburnt

28/3/2012

3:06 P.M.

A step towards critical thinking http://t.co/AaSoGNjj #ELTchat #EAPchat

yearinthelifeof

28/3/2012

3:07 P.M.

RT @seburnt: A step towards critical thinking http://t.co/AaSoGNjj #ELTchat #EAPchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:08 P.M.

@Marisa_C @nickkiley @rliberni @BrunoELT @LizziePinard @yearinthelifeof @fionamau Thank you for RTs - sanity is a PLN inc #ELTchat :)

AnthonyGaughan

28/3/2012

3:08 P.M.

@jimscriv wow - all that before breakfast?! #maximumrespectisdue #eltchat

michaelegriffin

28/3/2012

3:09 P.M.

@AnneHendler Lots of talk about praise on today's #ELTchat will hit you with links when they become available

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:09 P.M.

@AnthonyGaughan #ELTchat - "Chuckle" after dinner for me :)

pennyhands

28/3/2012

3:09 P.M.

Great format for #eltchat today. Guest proposes a hypothesis, and elt-chatters contribute, agree, disagree, develop.

TimePlanEd

28/3/2012

3:10 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

3:10 P.M.

@JoHart u have a way with words mwah!  #ELTchat

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:12 P.M.

@Marisa_C "Grin" Thank you most kindly Ma'm! #ELTchat must admit I loooove words/language - actually makes teachingvbasic lit hard!

seburnt

28/3/2012

3:13 P.M.

Making Exam Prep Child’s Play (Post-Workshop Round... http://t.co/nvkDUThL via @DaveDodgson #ELTchat #YLchat

TimePlanEd

28/3/2012

3:13 P.M.

RT @barbsaka: Don't dare to teach if you aren't willing to learn (from @rliberni) #eltchat #iatefl

eltbakery

28/3/2012

3:13 P.M.

Thank you @Marisa_C and @Shaunwilden and everyone for such an inspiring #ELTChat It's great to be here after 2 long months w the Delta. =]

theteacherjames

28/3/2012

3:14 P.M.

@sandymillin Sorry! We'll chat about it later, no doubt... ;-) #eltchat

TimePlanEd

28/3/2012

3:14 P.M.

RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is How can we use make the most of films/movies inside and outside the classroom? 21.00 BST

JoHart

28/3/2012

3:14 P.M.

RT @barbsaka: Don't dare to teach if you aren't willing to learn (from @rliberni) #eltchat #iatefl

english247

28/3/2012

3:15 P.M.

#English for beginners: The Alphabet. Read and listen http://t.co/YPydu50h #esl #esol #efl #kids #eltchat

Nic_Oddy

28/3/2012

3:16 P.M.

RT @andressatech: Our students are capable of great things if we don't understimate them #eltchat

Nic_Oddy

28/3/2012

3:17 P.M.

RT @barbsaka: Don't dare to teach if you aren't willing to learn (from @rliberni) #eltchat #iatefl

Marisa_C

28/3/2012

3:17 P.M.

@JoHart you are always good to have around on #ELTchat - sanity is also widening ur education circles and not just staying in ur small cornr

 

 

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