| username |
time |
status |
| ELTExperiences |
9:00 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: almost time for Teaching in the Communicative Classroom in tonight's #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:02 PM |
#ELtchat Hi everyone |
| Shaunwilden |
9:02 PM |
Ok it's 21.00 time for #eltchat Grammar teaching in the communicative classroom |
| CAnastasiadiELT |
9:02 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: almost time for Teaching in the Communicative Classroom in tonight's #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:03 PM |
RT @naomishema: Hi all! #eltchat Hi Naomi |
| Marisa_C |
9:03 PM |
Hi everyone just getting my grammar teaching outfit on #ELTchat |
| naomishema |
9:03 PM |
Hi all! #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:03 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle evening Sharon all set for the symposium? #eltchat Yes, looking forward to it |
| hartle |
9:03 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @hartle evening Sharon all set for the symposium? #eltchat Yes, looking forward to it |
| dalecoulter |
9:03 PM |
Hi everyone, ready for Teaching grammar in the commnicative classroom #ELtchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:03 PM |
@hartle evening Sharon all set for the symposium? #eltchat |
| little_miss_glo |
9:04 PM |
Hi everyone! #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:04 PM |
@Marisa_C Is it communicative? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:05 PM |
@Shaunwilden It's in context so it's gotta be #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:05 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Ok it's 21.00 time for #eltchat Grammar teaching in the communicative classroom |
| hartle |
9:06 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @hartle @little_miss_glo #eltchat@dalecoulter #ELTChat@reasons4 Hello there #eltchat hello everyone |
| Shaunwilden |
9:06 PM |
@Marisa_C EFL humour eh :-) #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:06 PM |
Hmm grammar, an area where I have much, much to learn. That's why I voted for this subject. #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:06 PM |
@hartle @little_miss_glo #eltchat@dalecoulter #ELTChat@reasons4 Hello there #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:07 PM |
#eltchat questions I ask myself with grammar, do I teach it before or after my students try to use it? Do I explain it or they work it out |
| Marisa_C |
9:07 PM |
@Shaunwilden and myself moderating this #ELTchat tonight - if new ask us for help please |
| dalecoulter |
9:07 PM |
Teaching grammar in a communicative classroom: how important is personalisation and how do people do that? #ELtchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:07 PM |
Is there is particular angle we want to look at this from? #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:07 PM |
shall I throw in a question then? Who mixes 50/50 deductive inductive grammar? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:08 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Hmm grammar, an area where I have much, much to learn. That's why I voted for this subject. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:08 PM |
@dalecoulter Very, ask the sts to use it about them is a start rather than contrived sentences #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:08 PM |
Bonjour tout le monde! #ELTCHAT |
| louisealix68 |
9:08 PM |
do we all teach difference between spoken/written grammar? #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:08 PM |
#eltchat questions I ask myself with grammar (cont) do they read about it themselves and we discuss it. Answer it depends on class :-) |
| rliberni |
9:08 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Hi everyone just getting my grammar teaching outfit on #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:08 PM |
#ELtchat does grammar teaching grow out of student need or out of a syllabus? |
| rliberni |
9:08 PM |
Hi there sorry a bit late :-( #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:09 PM |
@samshep and yet research says mix of both is best #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:09 PM |
@samshep @louisealix68 sometimes telling works #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:09 PM |
RT @louisealix68: do we all teach difference between spoken/written grammar? #eltchat > It looks like we ought to doesn't it o |
| rliberni |
9:09 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat does grammar teaching grow out of student need or out of a syllabus? |
| Shaunwilden |
9:09 PM |
@reasons4 depends on the class is a very good point when it comes to approaches #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:09 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: Teaching grammar in a communicative classroom: how important is personalisation and how do people do that? #ELtchat |
| samshep |
9:09 PM |
@louisealix68 I'm a 100% inductive kinda guy me. #ELTchat ask don't tell being my mantra... |
| hartle |
9:09 PM |
RT @reasons4: #eltchat questions I ask... Do I explain it or they work it out. > to some extent depends on level |
| Shaunwilden |
9:10 PM |
@dalecoulter Do you mean the name or structure? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:10 PM |
Research suggests that TBL best route to follow in the long term - which does not exclused explanation #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:10 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @louisealix68: do we all teach difference between spoken/written grammar? #eltchat > It looks like we ought to doesn't it o |
| cioccas |
9:10 PM |
@Shaunwilden @reasons4 Yes, depends on class & on indiv. - allSs at very different levels of grammar use and knowledge. #ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:10 PM |
@hartle: #ELtchat does grammar teaching grow out of student need... ? Good point. Do they REALLY need to know present perfect? ; ) |
| bethcagnol |
9:10 PM |
Who here explains grammar in the sts L1? #ELTCHAT |
| rliberni |
9:10 PM |
@hartle I think that depends on te organisation's approach often #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:10 PM |
#ELtchat depends on class and on aims of students. Passing exams etc. requires certain skills |
| Shaunwilden |
9:11 PM |
@Marisa_C I didnt know that, is there a link to the research ? #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:11 PM |
@dalecoulter @bethcagnol @hartle do they need meta language or just use of?#eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:11 PM |
I meant ' does not exclude" explanation #ELTchat - within the Task Cycle |
| hartle |
9:11 PM |
RT @louisealix68: @samshep and yet research says mix of both is best #eltchat Agreed. Sometimes telling saves hours ! #ELtchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:11 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: "@hartle: #ELtchat does grammar teaching grow out of student need... ?" Good point. Do they REALLY need to know present perfect? ; ) |
| rliberni |
9:11 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: Who here explains grammar in the sts L1? #ELTCHAT |
| mkofab |
9:11 PM |
@dalecoulter yes, they do I think #eltchat |
| cioccas |
9:11 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: Who here explains grammar in the sts L1? #ELTCHAT <No way - there are about 12 L1s in my classroom :-) |
| WarwickLanguage |
9:12 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Research suggests that TBL best route to follow in the long term - which does not exclused explanation #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:12 PM |
RT @mkofab: @dalecoulter yes, they do I think #eltchat I agree esp. with mine :-) |
| bethcagnol |
9:12 PM |
@dalecoulter Good idea! #ELTCHAT |
| Marisa_C |
9:12 PM |
@Shaunwilden No I'm afraid not readily available - TBL compared to PPP #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:12 PM |
@louisealix68 good to hear. |
| reasons4 |
9:12 PM |
#eltchat sometimes eliciting is like flogging a dead horse :-) |
| iHiND82 |
9:12 PM |
i think using the 1st lg 2 teach grammar in first time can b useful #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:12 PM |
@dalecoulter for some students labels are important as they relate it to their own lang #eltchat |
| samshep |
9:13 PM |
@louisealix68 I think it's something abt the idea of "here's the rule, apply it." prefer "try using it, what's the rule? Apply it." #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:13 PM |
@bethcagnol Do you use l1? #eltchat |
| cioccas |
9:13 PM |
RT @reasons4: #eltchat sometimes eliciting is like flogging a dead horse :-) :-) |
| hartle |
9:13 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: Who here explains grammar in the sts L1? #ELTCHAT I do sometimes if it makes it more memorable, + contrastive analysis |
| louisealix68 |
9:13 PM |
perhaps first question should be "what is grammar?" (where do chunks/collocations stop?)#eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:13 PM |
@cioccas Yeah, I realize that would be a constraint. I dream of the day I have 12 different L1s in my class. #ELTCHAT |
| Shaunwilden |
9:13 PM |
@Marisa_C Well that is discussed a lot in the work of Willis, though my own dabblings would not say one won out #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:13 PM |
RT @rliberni: @hartle I think that depends on... #eltchat Absolutely and the two are definitely not always the same thing |
| mkofab |
9:13 PM |
Grammar is meaning/ communication so you cannot express certain things if you do not know the correct grammar #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:14 PM |
@hartle this is true often tchrs don't have a choice :-( #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:14 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Research suggests that TBL best route to follow in the long term - which does not exclused explanation #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:14 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: The question really is should we include explicit grammar instruction and if so how should we do it #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:14 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: "@hartle: #ELtchat Good point. Do they REALLY need to know present perfect? ; ) and can they ever master it, anyway? |
| Marisa_C |
9:14 PM |
The question really is should we include explicit grammar instruction and if so how should we do it #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:14 PM |
@bethcagnol i believe in that approach for the first time only the use discourse #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:14 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @bethcagnol: Who here explains grammar in the sts L1? #ELTCHAT I do sometimes if it makes it more memorable, + contrastive analysis |
| JoHart |
9:15 PM |
As lit Not ESL) teacher - often find that my occl ESL stdnts obsessive abt & v good @ grammar but still can't have conv #ELTchat |
| samshep |
9:15 PM |
@Shaunwilden @louisealix68 I am a taller though and trying not to reins me in #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:15 PM |
@JoHart It figures - sad to say I observe beautifully crafted grammar lessons daily but the outcome is not what one would hope for #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:15 PM |
RT @rliberni: @hartle this is true...#eltchat my B1 stds have to do translation sentences as exam. I don't like it, but they need it so..? |
| rliberni |
9:15 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: The question really is should we include explicit grammar instruction and if so how should we do it #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:15 PM |
RT @mkofab: Grammar is meaning/ communication so you cannot express certain things if you do not know the correct grammar #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:16 PM |
RT @Marisa_C The question really is should we include explicit grammar instruction #eltchat for sts it is the bread and butter of learning |
| rliberni |
9:16 PM |
@Marisa_C sometimes yes, not always perhaps, horses for courses I s'times even do PPP (Yikes!!) #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:16 PM |
@Marisa_C I find my adult sts don't need explicit grammar instruction, then need context & practice. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:16 PM |
@bethcagnol do you think it is more effective than l2? I am genuinely interested #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:16 PM |
RT @Marisa_C The question really is should we include explicit grammar instruction #eltchat > sts I work with want and expect it .... |
| louisealix68 |
9:16 PM |
some students want explicit instruction (depending on learning style). I believe is healthy to mix both 50/50 #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:16 PM |
@Marisa_C explicit grammar instruction should play a less important role in many ELT classrooms, I would say #ELtchat |
| hartle |
9:17 PM |
#ELtchat at advanced lessons grammar cd be repair work and experientation + lexical grammar |
| rliberni |
9:17 PM |
@Marisa_C @reasons4 me too my stds expect and ask for it & it is useful to them #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:17 PM |
@Marisa_C @reasons4 me too my stds expect and ask for it & it is useful to them #eltchat |
| muranava |
9:17 PM |
anyone seen Swan's seminar on grammar teching on teh BC seminar site? quite good #eltchat |
| muranava |
9:17 PM |
anyone seen Swan's seminar on grammar teching on teh BC seminar site? quite good #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:17 PM |
@bethcagnol: @Shaunwilden Effective? Depends on the quality of the explanation. Efficient? You betcha! #ELTCHAT |
| bethcagnol |
9:17 PM |
@bethcagnol: @Shaunwilden Effective? Depends on the quality of the explanation. Efficient? You betcha! #ELTCHAT |
| samshep |
9:17 PM |
@bethcagnol hard when have multilingual grp & u r sadly monolingual #ELTchat |
| samshep |
9:17 PM |
@bethcagnol hard when have multilingual grp & u r sadly monolingual #ELTchat |
| pacogascon |
9:17 PM |
Good evening everyone #ELTchat |
| pacogascon |
9:17 PM |
Good evening everyone #ELTchat |
| little_miss_glo |
9:17 PM |
#ELTchat I think grammar instruction should be included only if it serves the students best interests |
| iHiND82 |
9:17 PM |
@Marisa_C yea i think so but only for one time and contrastively #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:17 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: @Marisa_C explicit grammar instruction should play a less important role in many ELT classrooms, I would say #ELtchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:17 PM |
@rliberni surely the tenets of PPP are good even if we shun the actual PPP, controlled practice gd, free practice gd #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:17 PM |
@rliberni Yes but you need to consider the long term effect - we do it but does it result in more confident & fluent learners #eltchat |
| JoHart |
9:17 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTchat They often seem not to be able to conv becos' too busy struggling to get perfect grammar |
| louisealix68 |
9:17 PM |
also depends on students' aim - what do they want with ELT + what level hope to attain #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:17 PM |
The carry over between explicit instruction & writing seems not 2 work so well.more meaningful when they correct their own writing. #eltchat |
| jobethsteel |
9:17 PM |
#eltchat Hello. Just back from work. |
| Marisa_C |
9:18 PM |
If it was up to me I woudl only use it in error correction slots - and only there #eltchat But I must train teachers to be able to deliverit |
| hartle |
9:18 PM |
RT @little_miss_glo: #ELTchat I think grammar instruction should be included... Yes but what are their best interests? |
| Shaunwilden |
9:18 PM |
@vimpela Grammar Teaching in the Communicative Classroom #ELTchat |
| JoHart |
9:18 PM |
RT @little_miss_glo: #ELTchat I think grammar instruction should be included only if it serves the students best interests |
| vimpela |
9:18 PM |
What's the topic today? RT @pacogascon: Good evening everyone #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:18 PM |
@bethcagnol Efficient for whom :-) #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:19 PM |
I do not tend to give explicit instruction on grammar: never a grammar ain. I sweep up the problems and discuss them with students. #ELtchat |
| pacogascon |
9:19 PM |
Grammar is still perceived by many ss as the important ting to learn #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:19 PM |
@Shaunwilden I subscribe to an 'additive' model of teaching grammar been through lots of diff methods take some bits leave others #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:19 PM |
#ELtchat not having an awareness of grammar is like living in a house with no cement in the walls. |
| reasons4 |
9:19 PM |
RT @Marisa_C @rliberni but does it result in more confident & fluent learners #eltchat > it results in happy learners happy = successful?? |
| ELTExperiences |
9:19 PM |
Trying to catch up with #ELTchat today, what's the topic? |
| Shaunwilden |
9:19 PM |
RT @naomishema: students WANT grammar instruction - that's something concrete that they can feel they have learned something. amazes me every time #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:19 PM |
@naomishema Why does that amaze you ? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:19 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rliberni Agreed. PPP = good principles, limited format. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:19 PM |
students WANT grammar instruction - that's something concrete that they can feel they have learned something. amazes me every time #eltchat |
| JoHart |
9:19 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: If it was up to me I woudl only use it in error correction slots - and only there #eltchat But I must train teachers to be able to deliverit |
| bethcagnol |
9:19 PM |
@Shaunwilden Students and teacher. Sometimes we don't have time for long drawn out grammar explanations in their L1. #ELTCHAT |
| Shaunwilden |
9:20 PM |
@rliberni Which can still be done by PPP - gosh am turning into a PPP defender, bloody hell :-) #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:20 PM |
RT @pacogascon: Grammar is still perceived by many ss as the important ting to learn #ELTchat This is real problem, idea: grammar = language |
| theteacherjames |
9:20 PM |
I've never had a student who asked for explicit grammar instruction. Not one. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:20 PM |
@mkofab it amzes me because they learn so much more from other things. that's why i have really gotten into using progress charts #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:20 PM |
Before I forget, #TESOLFR just ran a swap shop on communicative grammar ideas. If anyone wants the activities we shared, email me. #ELTCHAT |
| mkofab |
9:20 PM |
RT @pacogascon: Grammar is still perceived by many ss as the important ting to learn > What's wrong with that?#ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:20 PM |
RT @louisealix68: I think up to level B1/B2 ok w'out explicit grammar. If want to obtain C1/C2 + write correctly comes a time when grammar essential. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:20 PM |
@theteacherjames Ok I am no lover of PPP but why is it limited, the first P can be so many things #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:20 PM |
@naomishema Yes - and they also expect to read aloud - but a teacher can negotiate and explain why or why not #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:20 PM |
I think up to level B1/B2 ok w'out explicit grammar. If want to obtain C1/C2 + write correctly comes a time when grammar essential. #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:21 PM |
@reasons4 @Marisa_C wouldn't do it now as I was taught but if it helps - most of my stds are already fluent & confident need more #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:21 PM |
@ELTExperiences not always no, it freaks the unconfident ones #ELTchat |
| little_miss_glo |
9:21 PM |
RT @pacogascon: Grammar is still perceived by many ss as the important ting to learn #ELTchat |
| vmorgana |
9:21 PM |
@muranava couldn't find it :-(, have u got the link? #ELTchat |
| joseanprado |
9:21 PM |
And we have a big problem here... “@pacogascon: Grammar is still perceived by many ss as the important ting to learn #ELTchat” |
| bethcagnol |
9:21 PM |
@dalecoulter @shaunwilden Seconded. I didn't understand French grammar until it was explained to me in English. #ELTCHAT |
| pacogascon |
9:21 PM |
@mkofab nothing. I love grammar myself. But when they're too focused on grammar they forget bout communication #ELTchat |
| jobethsteel |
9:21 PM |
@naomishema @Shaunwilden True for me, no matter how hard I try to guide. Hard to change mindset of my sts. Achievable but hard. #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:21 PM |
@ELTExperiences Me too! A little late but here now!#ELTCHAT |
| ELTExperiences |
9:21 PM |
Don't you enjoy uncovering grammar and language in a communicative classroom? It is more immediate for learners. #ELTChat |
| samshep |
9:21 PM |
Seems to me we want to develop ss knowledge about lang and ability to use lang at same time so explicitness can help #ELTchat |
| mkofab |
9:22 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat grammar is part of language and no reason why it cannot be integrated into a communicative classroom |
| rliberni |
9:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden PPP was fun but things went very slowly, rigorous but limited I think #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:22 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat I think most experienced to realise explicit gram teaching is pointless but sts expect it and want it as do celta etc |
| ELTExperiences |
9:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden not my elementary students though Shaun. I find with learner training from the beginning helps immensely. #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:22 PM |
@theteacherjames I wouldnt say berlitz is PPP #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:22 PM |
#ELtchat grammar is part of language and no reason why it cannot be integrated into a communicative classroom |
| bethcagnol |
9:22 PM |
@dalecoulter @shaunwilden As a student, I absolutely hated grammar lessons in the L2. Felt it was a waste of time. Got so lost. #ELTCHAT |
| theteacherjames |
9:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden PPP as a method (Berlitz) is too restrictive, I think. Sometimes I teach PP, other times PPPP in various orders. #ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:22 PM |
@bethcagnol @shaunwilden I've never had to subsequently use metalanguage either in Italian. #ELtchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:22 PM |
@reasons4 think PPP results in happy Ts - 'I've done me job' teachers- Yay! in the 3rd P ss are using Yay! Next day nothing #ELTchat |
| JoHart |
9:22 PM |
@hartle awareness is one thing but when it becomes the main focus imho it can detract from being able to function in the language #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:23 PM |
@rliberni def limited but i think in the days of 'make it up as it emerges' it's unfairly shunned #ELTchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:23 PM |
@Shaunwilden Just to clarify, we are talking about Presentation, Practice & Performance? #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:23 PM |
#ELtchat my B1s worked on comaratives and then translated ideas like: Those who earn more are the most responsible. lead in to discussion |
| muranava |
9:23 PM |
@vmorgana What matters in grammar teaching http://t.co/lMlPWWbK #eltchat |
| jankenb2 |
9:23 PM |
#eltchat Is grammar instruction more meaningful when the goals are based on student's own writing? |
| bethcagnol |
9:23 PM |
@little_miss_glo Just DMed you, :-) #ELTCHAT |
| rliberni |
9:23 PM |
@Shaunwilden now about Silent Way ....... :-) #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:23 PM |
@bethcagnol @shaunwilden Me too. I learned Italian grammar despite explicit grammar instruction #ELtchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:23 PM |
Hi everyone! have a 30 y old S, never attended Engl courses, probs with gr in his NL,after trying diff meth, Gramm Tr helped a lot#eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:23 PM |
RT @hartle #ELtchat grammar is part of language and no reason why it cannot be integrated into a communicative classroom > 100% agree |
| dalecoulter |
9:24 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: DOn't get me wrong! I love grammar!!! I read grammar bks in bed #ELTchat BUt as @skrashen said 'normal people get thr kicks some other way" |
| toulasklavou |
9:24 PM |
@theteacherjames what nationalities r u talking abt?#eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:24 PM |
@ELTExperiences what do u mean by uncovering grammar ? Explained grammar through 1st lg ? #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:24 PM |
DOn't get me wrong! I love grammar!!! I read grammar bks in bed #ELTchat BUt as @skrashen said 'normal people get thr kicks some other way" |
| rliberni |
9:24 PM |
RT @naomishema: students WANT grammar instruction - that's something concrete that they can feel they have learned something. amazes me every time #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:24 PM |
@rliberni @Shaunwilden who's the quiet one? The teacher or the students? I prefer to interact with learners rather than play dumb. #ELTChat |
| samshep |
9:24 PM |
@Shaunwilden @eltexperiences you can blend uncovering with "safe" explicit grammar teaching. #ELTchat |
| naomishema |
9:25 PM |
Kids with analytical mindset (usually those good at math) DO NOT like uncovering grammar - they want rules, formulas. #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:25 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: @dalecoulter @shaunwilden Me2! I don't go about my .... #ELTCHAT No, but it helps if you can use it! :-) |
| ELTExperiences |
9:25 PM |
When you learnt a language, did you prefer to learn through conversation/interaction or with grammar books? #ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
9:25 PM |
@jankenb2 i think so #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:25 PM |
@dalecoulter @shaunwilden Me2! I don't go about my day in French thinking, "well, gee, I just used the subjunctive". #ELTCHAT |
| ZJonesSpanish |
9:25 PM |
Interesting discussion going on in #ELTchat about explicit grammar instruction |
| rliberni |
9:25 PM |
@naomishema I think it is important on some level to deliver what stds want - esp if they are paying themselves! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:25 PM |
@theteacherjames Yes and I'd say berlitz came out of the direct /audilolingual approaches #ELTchat |
| little_miss_glo |
9:26 PM |
@eltexperiences #ELTChat I preferred conversation / interaction, but I must admit that it was the grammar that I really retained. |
| reasons4 |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences #eltchat my sister claims all her French and German comes from knowing the grammar and going from there. |
| theteacherjames |
9:26 PM |
@Shaunwilden My first ELT job. Even had PPP written in the teachers book! #ELTchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:26 PM |
RT @naomishema: Kids with analytical mindset (usually those good at math) DO NOT like uncovering grammar - they want rules, formulas. #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences I learnt English in the 70s. behaviourism! :-) We BEGGED our teacher:please give us a grammar book! :-) #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:26 PM |
RT @shaznosel: @naomishema @rliberni PARENTS want grammar, grammar, grammar! #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:26 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: When you learnt a language...? #ELTChat I learn by experimentation and use, but also by noticing grammar and lexis |
| bethcagnol |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences Definitely interaction. #ELTCHAT but of someone later told me that my grammar was better it was a bonus. #ELTCHAT |
| dalecoulter |
9:26 PM |
For me communicative task + feedback + repetition seems to work if I teach grammar effectively, as a basic outline structure. TTT? #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:26 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: When you learnt a language, did you prefer to learn through conversation/interaction or with grammar books? #ELTChat |
| vmorgana |
9:26 PM |
@muranava thanks! #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:26 PM |
Do you try to prescribe or describe grammar in the classroom? I rather focus on communicative fluency rather than accuracy. #ELTChat |
| louisealix68 |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences personally hated explicit grammar. but came a time/level when hit plateau and needed grammar to get off it! #eltchat |
| JoHart |
9:26 PM |
I learned grammar at sch in German lessons! No lessons in Eng grammar - Think I would have been bored out of my love of English! #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences Grammar Teaching in the Communicative Classroom in tonight's #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:26 PM |
@naomishema @rliberni PARENTS want grammar, grammar, grammar! #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences Both, you?#ELTchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:26 PM |
@toulasklavou Brazilian, Korean, Spanish. 3 different continents! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:26 PM |
@ELTExperiences I am warped by my studies in linguistics - not a good person to ask this question :-) #ELTChat |
| pacogascon |
9:27 PM |
Dismissing grammar works when there's immersion,otherwise I think its needed, especially w/ ss who can manage mother tongue grammar #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:27 PM |
@ELTExperiences interaction and conversation as a st and teacher also #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:27 PM |
@Shaunwilden which came first though: conversation or grammar? I like to review grammar to understand why language works #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
9:27 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: DOn't get me wrong! I love grammar!!! I read grammar bks in bed #ELTchat BUt as @skrashen said 'normal people get thr kicks some other way" |
| Shaunwilden |
9:27 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan Ta #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:27 PM |
RT @mkofab: @ELTExperiences I learnt English in the 70s. behaviourism! :-) #eltchat I did French like that. It's my worst language :-(( |
| ELTExperiences |
9:28 PM |
@theteacherjames @Shaunwilden "Piss poor performance"? #ELTChat |
| lauraahaha |
9:28 PM |
Hi everybody, sorry I'm late. What's the topic this week? #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:28 PM |
@shaznosel Did u learn Greek in Greece or abroad? @hartle #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:28 PM |
RT @naomishema: Kids with analytical mindset (usually those good at math) DO NOT like uncovering grammar - they want rules, formulas. #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:28 PM |
@bethcagnol @hartle I subjunctive a lot in Italian. noticing and experimenting;Learned in chunks - instinctive that way. #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:28 PM |
@ELTExperiences for me - a combination I like the communication but I want sthing to review after #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:28 PM |
@ELTExperiences With czech it was the book, i studied it on my own before i went there #ELTchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:28 PM |
@theteacherjames impressed! age?#eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:28 PM |
RT @pacogascon: Dismissing grammar works when there's immersion,otherwise I think its needed, especially w/ ss who can manage mother tongue grammar #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:28 PM |
@hartle True - like my Greek, I ve never opened a grammar book- I make mistakes but I sure do communicate! #ELTCHAT |
| theteacherjames |
9:28 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan @Shaunwilden No analysis, that sounds about right. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:29 PM |
Perhaps a balance between interaction in class and a review of grammar is more appropriate for language learning. #ELTChat |
| shaznosel |
9:29 PM |
@ELTExperiences @bethcagnol kinda inductive or deductive..#ELTCHAT |
| Marisa_C |
9:29 PM |
@lauraahaha #eltchat tavhing grammar ina CLT classroom |
| naomishema |
9:29 PM |
RT @rliberni: @shaznosel yes and we can say no til we're blue in the face but they will not rate you if there isn't grammar #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:29 PM |
@ELTExperiences @Shaunwilden By the teacher or student? :) #ELTChat |
| pacogascon |
9:29 PM |
RT @jankenb2: #eltchat Are grammar rules changing much like punctuation rules? What has relaxed in terms of strict grammar instruction with the net? |
| bethcagnol |
9:29 PM |
@reasons4 @eltexperiences LOL!! #ELTCHAT (re: your sister) don't mean any disrespect but French grammar is...well...no comment. |
| rliberni |
9:29 PM |
@shaznosel yes and we can say no til we're blue in the face but they will not rate you if there isn't grammar #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:29 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: For me communicative task + feedback + repetition seems to work if I teach grammar effectively, as a basic outline structure. TTT? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:29 PM |
@rliberni It's not the worst way to start! #eltchat |
| jankenb2 |
9:29 PM |
#eltchat Are grammar rules changing much like punctuation rules? What has relaxed in terms of strict grammar instruction with the net? |
| hartle |
9:29 PM |
#ELtchat I think learning is a question of motivation rather than approach, but everything including grammar can motivate stds |
| hartle |
9:30 PM |
#ELtchat I learned Italian by using it and living here, but my Latin background helped. I liked noticing grammar and chunks too :-) |
| Shaunwilden |
9:30 PM |
@reasons4 Cheers Ga, nice bit of moderation ;-) #ELTchat |
| muranava |
9:30 PM |
i find grammar for written form tricky to 'teach' in a communicative way e.g. passive voice for writing about process #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:30 PM |
@theteacherjames "We train, we don't explain" (Berlitz mantra drilled during my training there...) #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:30 PM |
@theteacherjames we knew no better in those days :-( sob sob #eltchat (actually I think it was a good way) |
| Marisa_C |
9:30 PM |
RT @reasons4: #eltchat this has got a bit technical, how about some practical? We all do it so how do we make it fun and memorable? |
| louisealix68 |
9:30 PM |
RT @pacogascon: Dismissing grammar works when there's immersion,otherwise I think its needed, especially w/ ss who can manage mother tongue grammar #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:30 PM |
RT @reasons4: #eltchat this has got a bit technical, how about some practical? We all do it so how do we make it fun and memorable? |
| Shaunwilden |
9:30 PM |
@ELTExperiences not really with czech you need to know the rules it is a very accurate lang esp back when i first learned it #ELTchat |
| reasons4 |
9:30 PM |
#eltchat this has got a bit technical, how about some practical? We all do it so how do we make it fun and memorable? |
| pacogascon |
9:31 PM |
@hartle wouldve you learned it same way if not in Italy? #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:31 PM |
Practiising grammar online is good cause of instant feedback - teens like that! #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:31 PM |
RT @bethcagnol @eltexperiences #ELTCHAT (re: your sister) don't pick a fight with my sister, she used to beat up kids what bullied me. |
| shaznosel |
9:31 PM |
@rliberni @naomishema ASOLUTELY! Especially in Greece, as most parents were taught using gram-trans...ahgg!!#eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:31 PM |
@hartle You never went to Italian school then? #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:31 PM |
RT @AnthonyGaughan: @theteacherjames "We train, we don't explain" (Berlitz mantra drilled during my training there...) #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
9:31 PM |
@ELTExperiences I think at some point Adam said to Eve "Baby, you're hot". Then said "I call it the present tense." #ELTCHAT |
| ELTExperiences |
9:31 PM |
@Shaunwilden but the same is with English in some respects but we are always pushing for conversation then a review on grammar. #ELTChat |
| hartle |
9:32 PM |
RT @jankenb2: #eltchat Grammar an outcome of reading comprehension or listening comprehension? I think understanding grammar is speech 2 text progression |
| pacogascon |
9:32 PM |
RT @naomishema Practiising grammar online is good cause of instant feedback - teens like that! #eltchat > True, mine love it |
| theteacherjames |
9:32 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan It's a good first job, pre training / CELTA, but I'd die of frustration & boredom now. #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:32 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden @reasons4 Cheers Ga, nice bit of moderation ;-) #ELTchat to be honest I was getting bored :-) |
| shaznosel |
9:32 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: @ELTExperiences I think at some point Adam said to Eve "Baby, you're hot". Then said "I call it the present tense." #ELTCHAT |
| jankenb2 |
9:32 PM |
#eltchat The question is not "to teach grammar or not to teach grammar" rather how much time do we allocate for explicit vs implicit inst. |
| rliberni |
9:32 PM |
@ELTExperiences I think prescribing grammar came after proscribing grammar & usage comes first (or at least examples) descriptive #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:32 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: For me communicative task + feedback + repetition...#eltchat >Yes, like anything patterns need to be memorable! |
| JoHart |
9:33 PM |
Sorry - have to leave - time for breakfast enjoy rest of #ELTchat all :) |
| harrisonmike |
9:33 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan I try and plan the next grammar lesson as it happens in the lesson ;) #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:33 PM |
@reasons4 sing it or collect words in funny way and sts would remember it #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:33 PM |
@hartle @dalecoulter Agree - esp repetition and different contexts to use it.#eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:33 PM |
@hartle good personalisation and repetition helps make things memorable too #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:33 PM |
@rliberni Bells are ringing! #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:33 PM |
@bethcagnol that's really funny. #ELTChat |
| pacogascon |
9:33 PM |
RT @reasons4 RT @Shaunwilden @reasons4 Cheers Ga, nice bit of moderation ;-) #ELTchat to be honest I was getting bored :-) LOL |
| rliberni |
9:33 PM |
@theteacherjames Did you have the upside-down triangle? #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:33 PM |
How many of you plan your next grammar lesson as a response to something noticed in last lesson with a class? What'syour workflow? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:33 PM |
@reasons4 Ok liven it up by telling us a fun. memorable activity #ELTchat |
| reasons4 |
9:34 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden |
| naomishema |
9:34 PM |
My memorable activity: smelling your way to the second conditional http://t.co/plQ8R7b1 #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:34 PM |
@harrisonmike: @AnthonyGaughan I try and plan the next grammar lesson as it happens in the lesson ;) #eltchat agree |
| ELTExperiences |
9:34 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan I do like to review grammar that has emerged from the previous lesson but then more stuff emerges from this. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
9:35 PM |
@naomishema #eltchat Memorable contexts is great criterion no wishy washy sedate stuff - dramatic, funny, exaggerated, silly #ELTcat |
| harrisonmike |
9:35 PM |
@hartle Chomsky should have come up with Useful Grammar... #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:35 PM |
@pacogascon @hartle just by living here..never had time for a lesson!!!#ELTCHAT |
| toulasklavou |
9:35 PM |
@shaznosel @rliberni @naomishema thought Gr Tr an ancient method, but It worked with a S of mine has improved at sentence level #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:35 PM |
@reasons4 I asked for fun ones :-) #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:35 PM |
I always remember reacting immediately to grammar in class and introducing learners to new grammar in class. http://t.co/gkS8hlJO #ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
9:35 PM |
@jankenb2 1 ex : 3 im #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:35 PM |
@dalecoulter @harrisonmike @ELTExperiences Yes, but what is your working process? How does the noticing evolve to a lesson? #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:35 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat Grammar teaching has to go beyond the banal. Not grammar for grammar but grammar for successful expression |
| rliberni |
9:35 PM |
@theteacherjames it was the diagram to illustrate the method starting with control & tchr & fanning out to the base - the world #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:35 PM |
#ELtchat Grammar teaching has to go beyond the banal. Not grammar for grammar but grammar for successful expression |
| harrisonmike |
9:35 PM |
I find it really hard to recycle. See each class once a week. By the next lesson comes round I've forgotten where we were =( #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
9:36 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan Good Q, ideally I'd note it, conjure sum kind of organic gapfill or off the cuff listening of me talking abt smthng #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:36 PM |
@theteacherjames Certainly teaches you ingenuity in asking follow up questions ;-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:36 PM |
@pacogascon #ELTchat Joined that club already - got a T-shirt too |
| hartle |
9:36 PM |
RT @louisealix68: like to get class to create quiz. Hand in question (+answer) I use as revision pop quiz next class..#eltchat gd idea |
| theteacherjames |
9:36 PM |
@rliberni The world? That's ambitious! I think I remember something in my training. #eltchat |
| lauraahaha |
9:36 PM |
@hartle Definitely. Especially if sts are in an Eng-speaking country - they need to USE the grammar, not just know the rules. #ELtchat |
| rliberni |
9:36 PM |
@toulasklavou O often find that diff methods suit diff ppl so good to have a range #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:36 PM |
@harrisonmike making a record of work or writing small notes works wonders and helps remind you what to do. #ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
9:36 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat Grammar teaching has to go beyond the banal. Not grammar for grammar but grammar for successful expression |
| pacogascon |
9:36 PM |
@hartle #ELTchat True, grammar for the sake of grammar is just for grammar freaks, like me :) |
| louisealix68 |
9:36 PM |
like to get class to create quiz. Hand in question (+answer) I use as revision pop quiz next class. They can be very creative! #eltchat |
| muranava |
9:36 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan rarely do i base a lesson around a grammar point unless i am doing exam course or similar #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:36 PM |
#ELtchat the problem is when teaching is ONLY grammar based, not the grammar itself. |
| dalecoulter |
9:37 PM |
@hartle It's a good book, that one.#eltchat |
| hartle |
9:37 PM |
RT @naomishema: Too late for me on a school night - goodnight all! #eltchat night Naomi sweet dreams :-) |
| toulasklavou |
9:37 PM |
What happens when Ss aren't good with Gr in their NL? How bad is to use the S's NL to make them understand syntax for example? #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
9:37 PM |
@ELTExperiences You're right, and I should be better at it =( #eltchat |
| naomishema |
9:37 PM |
Too late for me on a school night - goodnight all! #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:37 PM |
@hartle yea i agree ! #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:37 PM |
@shaznosel Thats what I said: where there's immesion explicit grammar is unneccesary Otherwise, it helps @hartle #ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:37 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan @harrisonmike @ELTExperiences think I might reply in blog-post form, Anthony #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:37 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan @harrisonmike @ELTExperiences think I might reply in blog-post form, Anthony #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:37 PM |
@toulasklavou @rliberni @naomishema Yes I think it has a place in some contexts and can be combined with other methods#eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:37 PM |
@toulasklavou @rliberni @naomishema Yes I think it has a place in some contexts and can be combined with other methods#eltchat |
| hartle |
9:37 PM |
#eltchat I like Herbert Puchta's "Creative Grammar" book. Patterns echoing in personalised texts |
| idc74 |
9:37 PM |
Grammar best studied outside classrooms and then practised in context during classes? #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:37 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan :-) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:38 PM |
No matter how you do it - or don't do it though - Ts need to have a high level of knowledge & understanding of grammar #ELTchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:38 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: Elementary sts didn't know "quiet" and "loud": I said "quiet is when you don't talk English but when you all talk it's loud" #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
9:38 PM |
@naomishema good night thanks for your input :-) #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:38 PM |
@pacogascon I agree but immersion takes time...ss want to learn asap!!#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:38 PM |
Elementary sts didn't know "quiet" and "loud": I said "quiet is when you don't talk English but when you all talk it's loud" #ELTChat |
| hartle |
9:38 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: @hartle It's a good book, that one.#eltchat :-) |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:38 PM |
@dalecoulter Wanted to suggest that but ran out of characters! #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:39 PM |
@toulasklavou its hard 2 use it then and u better 2 avoid it entirly ! #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:39 PM |
Think explicit grammar is especially helpful for ss with a thourough gramm kowledge of their L1 #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:39 PM |
@Marisa_C I've seen lots of learners 'test' (subtly) trainees on their grammar knowledge #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:39 PM |
RT @mkofab: If I was "immersed" I would still ask for a grammar book when learning a new language! Fast(er) #eltchat me too :-) |
| ELTExperiences |
9:39 PM |
@harrisonmike take a picture of the whiteboard rather than writing if that's your thing and it only takes a few seconds. #ELTChat |
| mkofab |
9:39 PM |
If I was "immersed" I would still ask for a grammar book when learning a new language! Fast(er) and efficient and more structured. #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:39 PM |
@toulasklavou well then your job as a teacher takes on another role.Agree with L1 in that case, it's a resource, and helping them #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:39 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: No matter how you do it - or don't do it though - Ts need to have a high level of knowledge & understanding of grammar #ELTchat |
| shaznosel |
9:39 PM |
RT @rliberni: @naomishema good night thanks for your input :-) #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:39 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: No matter how you do it - or don't do it though - Ts need to have a high level of knowledge & understanding of grammar #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:40 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan I try to evolve the lesson by reacting to the learners: use gapfills, language review, reordering, etc #ELTChat |
| dalecoulter |
9:40 PM |
@Marisa_C very true. But their students don't need as much as they do #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:40 PM |
@Marisa_C many of my student teachers ;( purely deductive #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:40 PM |
@louisealix68 even then #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:40 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: No matter how you do it - or don't do it though - Ts need to have a high level of knowledge & understanding of grammar #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:40 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat if you are a beginner and you can't use verb forms you won't get very far! Simple as that |
| mkofab |
9:40 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat if you are a beginner and you can't use verb forms you won't get very far! Simple as that > Exactly! |
| bethcagnol |
9:40 PM |
@Marisa_C And yet, so many of us get to that high level thanks to teaching. #ELTCHAT |
| KatyGartside |
9:40 PM |
Agree! MT @Marisa_C: No matter how you do it-or don't do it though-Ts need 2 have high level of knowledge & nderstanding of grammar #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:40 PM |
#ELtchat if you are a beginner and you can't use verb forms you won't get very far! Simple as that |
| Marisa_C |
9:40 PM |
So does anyone use grammar books in class and if so how? #ELTchat |
| jankenb2 |
9:41 PM |
#eltchat Here's the elephant in the room question...how confident are you in teaching grammar, and does it influence your planning? |
| bethcagnol |
9:41 PM |
@rliberni @marisa_c Grammar is great for when students ask "But, why?" #ELTCHAT |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:41 PM |
@Marisa_C Used a big stack in input today while trainees created guided discovery tasks. Curiously, they didn't help. #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:41 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @mkofab: If I was "immersed" I'd still ask for a grammar bk when learning a new language! Fast(er) #eltchat me too :-) me 2 |
| samshep |
9:41 PM |
@ELTExperiences @harrisonmike and then post it to a class blog #ELTchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:41 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat if you are a beginner and you can't use verb forms you won't get very far! Simple as that |
| Marisa_C |
9:41 PM |
RT @dalecoulter: @Marisa_C very true. But their students don't need as much as they do #eltchat > No!!!! they don't |
| jobethsteel |
9:41 PM |
@idc74 I've been trying this a lot recently. Works really well for sts who do homework. Just deal with emerging diffs in class. #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:41 PM |
@hartle @mkofab But I think thats because we're VERY acquainted to lang theory. Most learners wouldnt #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:41 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So does anyone use grammar books?#ELTchat > we use grammar worksheets with personalised practice, so not mindless |
| bethcagnol |
9:41 PM |
@Marisa_C I used them for quizzes. #ELTCHAT |
| Marisa_C |
9:41 PM |
@bethcagnol #ELTCHAT it's the paradox of teaching |
| rliberni |
9:41 PM |
@Marisa_C I think grammar is an important tool which we must have whether we use it as such in the classroom or not #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:41 PM |
@Marisa_C yes it is a system for the expression of meaning - no grammar means u r often misunderstood -like my Greek!#eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:42 PM |
@Marisa_C try telling that to some trainees! #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:42 PM |
@Marisa_C no only as a reference where needed #eltchat |
| samshep |
9:42 PM |
@Marisa_C not for a long time. Find myself chafing on the bit #ELTchat #2ndhorseridingmetaphor |
| Marisa_C |
9:42 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan #ELTchat Anthony - any thoughts on the progress of SS as a result of TP classes? |
| bethcagnol |
9:42 PM |
Off to bed everyone. Can't wait to see many of you at #IATEFL ! #ELTCHAT Bonne nuit! |
| dalecoulter |
9:42 PM |
If I could learn a new language, I'd want to dive into the lexical deepend,no grmr. #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:42 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: @rliberni @marisa_c Grammar is great for when students ask "But, why?" #ELTCHAT |
| toulasklavou |
9:42 PM |
@rliberni Definitely!Variety caters for diff needs &d learn types, no method is bad if it proves effective#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:42 PM |
@hartle but when first learning, you start with the basics (usually nouns) then progress to verbs. Communication then grammar #ELTChat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:43 PM |
@dalecoulter Interesting comment from @thornburyscott on his last blogpost about tending to teach everything as lexis initially #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
9:43 PM |
Arabic, Russian? RT @dalecoulter: If I could learn a new language, I'd want to dive into the lexical deepend,no grmr. #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:43 PM |
@jankenb2 the big answer - native speakers are rarely confident! I still struggle and have to check the how's and why's#eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:43 PM |
@dalecoulter So you'd know loads of chunks but not how to put them together? #ELTchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:43 PM |
@dalecoulter Interesting comment from @thornburyscott #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:44 PM |
I have learnt lots of language chunks in Romanian so that I can ask for bits and pieces but no real conversational strategies #ELTChat |
| samshep |
9:44 PM |
@harrisonmike @eltexperiences wd be a gd project for development purposes as well as to share w ss #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:44 PM |
@harrisonmike I wld use grammar refs to appreciate the diffs (as with Indonesian & Chinese no tenses as such) #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:44 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: Arabic, Russian? RT @dalecoulter: If I could learn a new language, I'd want to dive into the lexical deepend,no grmr. #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:44 PM |
@Shaunwilden short-turn Dale, they'd call me. #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:44 PM |
“@dalecoulter: If I could learn a new language, I'd want to dive into the lexical deepend,no grmr. #eltchat” and how far would you get? |
| dalecoulter |
9:45 PM |
@reasons4 Sry, shld be clearer, chunks, no explicit focus on grmr. #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
9:45 PM |
@rliberni Grammar might not help you then?? All the grammar explanation isn't gonna help if it's tonal - u need audiolingualism =) #eltchat |
| louisealix68 |
9:45 PM |
gotta go read intern's research paper in prep for 2morrow. Enjoy last few minutes guys! #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:45 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan Honestly my weakness is noticing those grammar gaps. Can see the mistakes they make, hard 2 see what they don't say #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:45 PM |
@Marisa_C can you clarify a bit? Do you mean: does TP develop learners or just trainees (if we're lucky)? Sounds like a chat topic! #ELTchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:46 PM |
@ELTExperiences that dont help that much i agree #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:46 PM |
RT @pacogascon: @hartle @mkofab But I think thats because we're VERY acquainted to lang theory. Most learners wouldnt #ELTchat maybe |
| samshep |
9:46 PM |
@rliberni @harrisonmike makes me think that ss might need grammar awareness in L1 first #ELTchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:46 PM |
@theteacherjames That's why delayed treatment can help; you can pass quotes past colleagues and work out the real issue to treat. #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:46 PM |
RT @rliberni: @ELTExperiences that is the problem to build you need a foundation that will help u expand I think this is the value of grammar #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:46 PM |
@dalecoulter Even if u learnt through lex app, you wouldn't need some ruleseg 2 put words in the right order?or use the right tense#eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:46 PM |
“@AnthonyGaughan: @dalecoulter Interesting comment from @thornburyscott #eltchat” > interesting cos you agree or cos you think it is ….. |
| rliberni |
9:46 PM |
@ELTExperiences that is the problem to build you need a foundation that will help u expand I think this is the value of grammar #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:46 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan asking abt whether ur tp Ss are showing progress as a result of TP work #ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:47 PM |
@toulasklavou I don't know. Would be interesting to see what the effect on my language output would be though.#eltchat |
| madogomez |
9:47 PM |
This year I had to teach some grammar to some SS: 60+, former high school teachers. They insisted I admit I gave in. Felt bad. #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:47 PM |
@reasons4 Interesting cos I hit the send button too early :-( Letting language settle lexically then unpacking it appeals to me #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:47 PM |
in the communicative classroom, interaction is firstSo do we carry on making grammar mistakes but it's ok cause we're comunicating?#ELTCHAT |
| rliberni |
9:47 PM |
@harrisonmike I don't mean explanations I mean making cfs mentally which I can do cos I know grammar #eltchat diffs as imp as sims IMO |
| ELTExperiences |
9:47 PM |
Don't you enjoy it when sts realise or understand language from L2 and stop relying on L1? #ELTChat |
| harrisonmike |
9:47 PM |
@samshep @eltexperiences showed it as exploitation of notebook smartboard software - export to image/pdf -> blog #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:48 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences Don't you enjoy it when sts realise or understand language from L2 and stop relying on L1? #ELTChat > It happens!! |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:48 PM |
@theteacherjames I think I hear those cogs turning... #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:48 PM |
@rliberni I agree. A balance between conversation and more structured study is required rather than a 'one-sized fit all' approach #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
9:48 PM |
@samshep most of my learners do which is why grammar terms are useful to me and them #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:48 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan The problem is I don't have colleagues, just my PLN. Would be nice to have that support. (There's an idea....)#eltchat |
| muranava |
9:49 PM |
realising i have yet to learn grammar of twitter :) #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:49 PM |
So to get back on track, how do you highlight items of grammar - through skills work or explicit focus of some kind? #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:49 PM |
OOps got to go left my std watching Calender Girls will see what she makes of it!! #eltchat |
| harrisonmike |
9:49 PM |
@rliberni My brain's not working. I can't understand the abbreviations... =( #eltchat it's bedtime! Byeee |
| shaznosel |
9:49 PM |
@madogomez The same often happens to me in monolingual adult classes - t wnat they need sometimes.#eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
9:49 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan Getting their yearly workout... #eltchat |
| hartle |
9:50 PM |
#ELtchat I highlight grammar through texts mainly and then encourage personalised experimenting |
| theteacherjames |
9:50 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan You read my cogs, if you pardon the expression. #eltchat |
| rliberni |
9:50 PM |
Interesting chat thanks #eltchat See many of you next week I guess :-) |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:50 PM |
@theteacherjames Soem kind of bulletin board for ELT teachers with urgent language questions - a onestopshop4grammar1st-aid #eltchat |
| samshep |
9:50 PM |
@rliberni exactly. When I did GCSE French teacher had to give us a crash course in English gram first. prob when ss don't have it #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:50 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So to get back on track, how do you highlight items of grammar - through skills work or explicit focus of some kind? #ELTchat |
| rliberni |
9:50 PM |
@harrisonmike sorry wanted to get it all in :-) #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:50 PM |
@shaznosel thats ok from Ss but not Ts #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:51 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: how do you highlight items of grammar - through skills work or explicit focus of some kind? > both #ELTchat |
| dalecoulter |
9:51 PM |
@Marisa_C texts as inpt:students make theories & check w/me;give them positive +constrctive fdback on their language;reformulation #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:51 PM |
@dalecoulter IMO u need as a beginner u need sth 2 be based on,later more focus on other skills to expand ur lang#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:51 PM |
@Marisa_C what do you mean highlight Marisa? #ELTChat |
| hartle |
9:51 PM |
RT @rliberni: Interesting chat thanks #eltchat See many of you next week I guess :-) Yes see you next week |
| pacogascon |
9:51 PM |
RT @Marisa_C So to get back on track, how do you highlight items of grammar ? #ELTchat > skills work, occasional drilling |
| iHiND82 |
9:52 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat I highlight grammar through texts mainly and then encourage personalised experimenting |
| dalecoulter |
9:52 PM |
@toulasklavou what is IMO? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:52 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @ELTExperiences as in 'noticing' isolating' 'concept checking etc'#ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
9:52 PM |
@ELTExperiences as in 'noticing' isolating' 'concept checking etc'#ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
9:52 PM |
@Marisa_C both starting from explicit grammar followed by skill practice #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:52 PM |
@Marisa_C Is noticing from texts the sort of thing you meant? #ELTchat |
| NihallYildirim |
9:52 PM |
RT @seburnt: Web tool recommendations (#eltchat summary) http://t.co/kHBMVido via @sandymillan |
| hartle |
9:52 PM |
#ELtchat I also do a fair amount of test teach testing too |
| shaznosel |
9:53 PM |
@Marisa_C @Shaunwilden usually through a text - inductive approach/ highlight/ practise..gotta go with CB but always leave GB to end#eltchat |
| hartle |
9:53 PM |
#ELtchat me too, I have to go now. Thnx for chat. See lots of you in Glasgow :-)) |
| iHiND82 |
9:53 PM |
@hartle liked ur techique ! #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:53 PM |
Get Ss 2 notice lang after a reading or list, get them 2 focus on new structures and guess usage/meaning/form#eltchat |
| samshep |
9:53 PM |
Enjoyed #ELTchat tonight but am now almost home from work! #mobileCPD ! |
| Marisa_C |
9:54 PM |
So both models acceptable-explicit instruction leading to communicative use & the reverse as in Error analysis after productive wk #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:54 PM |
@dalecoulter I learnt that from eltchat,had to luk it up, means in my opinion:)#eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:54 PM |
@reasons4 @toulasklavou Yes #ELTchat |
| hartle |
9:54 PM |
RT @iHiND82: @hartle liked ur techique ! #eltchat Thnx |
| ELTExperiences |
9:54 PM |
It was about a year ago I planned a lesson around grammar. Most of the time I focus on the topic with possible grammar emergence. #ELTChat |
| mkofab |
9:54 PM |
RT @hartle: #ELtchat me too, I have to go now. Thnx for chat. See lots of you in Glasgow :-)) > Looking forward!! |
| pacogascon |
9:54 PM |
Inductive learning: guessing grammar rules when exposed to txts & speech #eltchat |
| reasons4 |
9:54 PM |
“@dalecoulter: @toulasklavou what is IMO? #eltchat” in my opinion??? |
| Shaunwilden |
9:55 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So both models acceptable-explicit instruction leading to communicative use & the reverse as in Error analysis after productive wk #eltchat |
| mkofab |
9:55 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So both models acceptable-explicit instruction leading to communicative use & the reverse as in Error analysis after productive wk #eltchat |
| iHiND82 |
9:55 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So both models acceptable-explicit instruction leading to communicative use & the reverse as in Error analysis after productive wk #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:55 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: So both models acceptable-explicit instruction leading to communicative use & the reverse as in Error analysis after productive wk #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:55 PM |
@Marisa_C if I like to focus on grammar, I love to use dictogloss so learners can notice the difference between of English. #ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
9:55 PM |
enjoyed ur #eltchat thanx guyz c u next week #LOVE |
| shaznosel |
9:55 PM |
@madogomez me too!#eltchat |
| Edu_Trends |
9:56 PM |
OOps got to go left my std watching Calender Girls will see what she makes of it!! #eltchat http://t.co/fylGKb0w |
| Marisa_C |
9:56 PM |
@ELTExperiences #ELTChat dictogloss one technique which encourages memorization of longer chunks of language #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:57 PM |
@pacogascon @Marisa_C @ELTExperiences Yes i thnk if it is done well it does, certainly helps then notice #ELTchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
9:57 PM |
@Marisa_C Q: anyone else agree with @jimscriv that situational presentation is in need of saving from extinction? #ELTChat #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:57 PM |
@Marisa_C but also encourages noticing of grammar structures and reformulation of phrases. Best way to introduce grammar implicitly #ELTChat |
| jobethsteel |
9:57 PM |
Thanks, elt chatters. Must go. Very tired. #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
9:57 PM |
Sometimes use TEST-TEACH-TEST, that's useful for revision or adults#eltchat |
| pacogascon |
9:57 PM |
RT @Marisa_C @ELTExperiences #ELTChat dictogloss 1 technique which encourages memorization of longer chunks of lang #eltchat > Does it work? |
| reasons4 |
9:57 PM |
“@Marisa_C: So both models acceptable #eltchat > surely it depends on your students, if they like to be told tell them and vice versa |
| dalecoulter |
9:58 PM |
@ELTExperiences: It was about a year ago I planned a… me too #ELTChat |
| pacogascon |
9:58 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C @ELTExperiences I'll give it a go, then #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
9:58 PM |
@Marisa_C Definetly depends on the needs of SS and the area of grammar...all down to class needs/levels/previous exp of learning.#eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
9:58 PM |
@pacogascon Can do if preselected text has high frequency of items - which not authentic usually #ELTChat #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
9:59 PM |
@Shaunwilden @pacogascon @Marisa_C one of those techniques undervalued by some teachers perhaps with its association to dictation #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
9:59 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan where concepts notions more important than functions and social aspects of language #ELTChat #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
9:59 PM |
Ok two minutes left #ELTchat any key things that need to be recapped? |
| Marisa_C |
9:59 PM |
@AnthonyGaughan situational is out of a context but for some items it's quite OK I find #ELTChat #eltchat |
| petervdbroeck |
10:00 PM |
Grammar is the foundations #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:00 PM |
@ELTExperiences It used to be called dicto-comp originally - combination of dictation and composition - where memory fails #ELTChat |
| mkofab |
10:00 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Next week #eltchat will be at #iatefl. @shaunwilden has all the details on the uncut ELTchat podcast: http://t.co/hyTwbNyG |
| Shaunwilden |
10:00 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Next week #eltchat will be at #iatefl. @shaunwilden has all the details on the uncut ELTchat podcast: http://t.co/hyTwbNyG |
| shaznosel |
10:00 PM |
@Shaunwilden Don't always do what the latest methodolgy tells us - go with ss needs and adapt#eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10:00 PM |
Next week #eltchat will be at #iatefl. @shaunwilden has all the details on the uncut ELTchat podcast: http://t.co/hyTwbNyG |
| Shaunwilden |
10:00 PM |
And of course we need a summary writer #ELTchat |
| muranava |
10:00 PM |
@Shaunwilden how long is a piece of string? :) #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
10:00 PM |
The bad thing is not much time to use a variety of methods &sometimes I find myself to resort to deductive appr,shame on me!#eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
10:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Next week there is no #ELTchat on Wednesday but there will be a long one Thursday from 15.50 to 18.20 GMT |
| pacogascon |
10:01 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: @dalecoulter I hate to preplan grammar lessons. It is that old idea of force-feeding grammar down the students' throats. #ELTChat |
| dalecoulter |
10:01 PM |
@ELTExperiences until they choke it back up at you #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:01 PM |
@dalecoulter I hate to preplan grammar lessons. It is that old idea of force-feeding grammar down the students' throats. #ELTChat |
| dalecoulter |
10:02 PM |
@shaznosel: enjoy your IATEFL guys - wish I could be with you all! #eltchat me too |
| tdsig |
10:02 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Next week #eltchat will be at #iatefl. @shaunwilden has the details on the uncut ELTchat podcast: http://t.co/IiiTvYGf |
| AnthonyGaughan |
10:02 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: Next week #eltchat will be at #iatefl. @shaunwilden has the details on the uncut ELTchat podcast: http://t.co/otCSWM2W |
| shaznosel |
10:02 PM |
enjoy your IATEFL guys - wish I could be with you all! #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
10:02 PM |
@toulasklavou I'll let you know how it goes. Any suggestions for which language? #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:02 PM |
@Marisa_C I didn't know that. It is very valuable and I use it almost every week. #ELTChat |
| toulasklavou |
10:03 PM |
@dalecoulter @shaznosel how d u retweet and write a comment at the same time?#eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
10:03 PM |
@toulasklavou England, but live in Italy. Yourself? #eltchat |
| pacogascon |
10:03 PM |
#eltchat Enjoy #iatefl :D I'll be following the ht |
| ELTExperiences |
10:03 PM |
@dalecoulter absolutely. I remember being told in no uncertain terms that a particular student wanted more grammar by my old DoS #ELTChat |
| iHiND82 |
10:03 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Next week there is no #ELTchat on Wednesday but there will be a long one Thursday from 15.50 to 18.20 GMT |
| dalecoulter |
10:04 PM |
@ELTExperiences did that particular student get what they wanted? #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
10:04 PM |
@toulasklavou @dalecoulter not worked that one out the> thing!!#eltchat |
| muranava |
10:05 PM |
RT @toulasklavou @dalecoulter @shaznosel how d u retweet and write a comment at the same time?<-copy paste add RT to front #eltchat |
| toulasklavou |
10:05 PM |
@dalecoulter Greek, u culd try a latin based lang, that wuld help u understand better the lang if u didn't focus so much on gr#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:05 PM |
@dalecoulter Yet my old DoS defended my approach and told the student that conversation is more important than grammar #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:06 PM |
@dalecoulter nope ... she changed class. Korean learners can feel picky and hate to focus on conversation #ELTChat |
| toulasklavou |
10:06 PM |
@shaznosel @dalecoulter Think we need to sort this out tonight, dalecoulter will help us#eltchat |
| shaznosel |
10:06 PM |
@pacogascon @toulasklavou @dalecoulter ha! HA! Thanks - I ll sort it for next time! Night all!!#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:07 PM |
Is the #ELTChat all done now? Am I the only one tweeting? That went quick! |
| Marisa_C |
10:07 PM |
@ELTExperiences It's one of the more 'holistic' types of activity I often demo one using James Thruber's version of RR Hood gr8! #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:08 PM |
@ELTExperiences @pacogascon #ELTChat OUP brought out a whole book about them tho frankly a whole books is a bit too much #eltchat |
| dalecoulter |
10:08 PM |
@ELTExperiences Is that from their education system or jsut how they are? #eltchat |
| AnthonyGaughan |
10:08 PM |
Both grammar study and conversation are essential but not sufficient sole conditions for language mastery: discuss. #eltchat |
| shaznosel |
10:08 PM |
@toulasklavou @dalecoulter Guys - I m relying on you --need to sleep!! Long day! Toula, chat tomorrow! Thanks Dale! Nitee#eltchat |
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