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What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus What knowledge andskills do teachers need

Page history last edited by Shaun 8 years, 10 months ago

This is the transcript of #eltchat held on 25.01.2012  What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do teachers need?

username time status
cerirhiannon 9:02 PM joining #eltchat for the next hour - talking about syllabus design
SueAnnan 9:02 PM OK syllabus design knowing need, wants and  achievable goals#ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:02 PM What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do teachers need? #ELTchat
cioccas 9:03 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat knowledge of what the student[s] need. Knowledge of what the student[s] are interested in.
cioccas 9:03 PM @Marisa_C That's okay - I knew before I went to bed last night the order of the chats. Will just lurk until I get the gist #ELTchat
esolcourses 9:03 PM RT @cerirhiannon: joining #eltchat for the next hour - talking about syllabus design
AlexandraKouk 9:03 PM RT @Shaunwilden: What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do teachers need? #ELTchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:03 PM #eltchat knowledge of what the student[s] need. Knowledge of what the student[s] are interested in.
cerirhiannon 9:04 PM maybe the starting point should be a clear idea/statement of global goals (so needs and wants from diff angles) #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 9:04 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
ShellTerrell 9:04 PM Agree! RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat knowledge of what the student[s] need. Knowledge of what the student[s] are interested in.
vickyloras 9:04 PM I'm here too #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:04 PM RT @SueAnnan: OK syllabus design knowing need, wants and  achievable goals#ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:04 PM Welcome to #ELTChat Topic: What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do teachers need?
esolcourses 9:04 PM IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
SueAnnan 9:04 PM @cioccas  you haven't missed anything yet Lesley #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:05 PM @cerirhiannon Global goals? Analyse this please?  #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:05 PM Part of the process will be knowing how what objectives are institution expects & maybe frameworks by the govt #ELTChat
vickyloras 9:05 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
Marisa_C 9:05 PM Hi - getting settled down to talk about syllabus design #ELTchat @Shaunwilden @ShellTerrell and me moderating
AnnLoseva 9:06 PM RT@esolcourses:a good syllabus should reflect needs of sts &be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:06 PM RT @cioccas: This #ELTchat is a follow on from the Needs Analysis one last week - right?> Right - we have identified those needs what next
ShellTerrell 9:06 PM Here's a link to the Common European Framewk of Reference for Languages: Learning, Teaching, Assessment (CEFR) http://t.co/CFBG36r8 #Eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:06 PM RT @SueAnnan: IMO Achievable goals will take account of time available and other stakeholders #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:06 PM RT @Marisa_C: @cerirhiannon Global goals? Analyse this please?  #eltchat > why the course is being run - what the end goals are
SueAnnan 9:06 PM IMO Achievable goals will take account of time available and other stakeholders #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 9:06 PM #eltchat should also provide a clear focus for the course, laid out in achievable steps
cioccas 9:06 PM This #ELTchat is a follow on from the Needs Analysis one last week - right?
ShellTerrell 9:07 PM Sometimes I think the syllabus is more for the teachers than student especially when written to where we can only understand it #ELTChat
Marisa_C 9:07 PM So it's a given we need to know how to do needs analysis - since this done last week can we not revisit topic #Eltchat
SueAnnan 9:07 PM A syllabus needs variety as well #ELTchat
cioccas 9:07 PM @Marisa_C Thanks Marisa, as we seemed to starting with Needs analysis I wanted to clarify #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:07 PM @AnnLoseva >agree realistic and achievable v imp #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:07 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat should also provide a clear focus for the course, laid out in achievable steps
ShellTerrell 9:07 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
Marisa_C 9:08 PM @ShellTerrell A syllabus IS for the teacher or academic supervisor and it's a statement of intentions #ELTChat
sandymillin 9:08 PM Missed the start of #eltchat because I was booking my train tickets for #IATEFL :)
ShellTerrell 9:08 PM What do you think about a student created/negotiated syllabus? #ELTChat
SueAnnan 9:08 PM @Shaunwilden  yes, that's right - if that's what is required by sts #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:08 PM maybe need to ask why we need a syllabus? do we always need one? #eltchat
Sandratweet 9:08 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 9:08 PM @SueAnnan Variety in terms of focusing all skills and systems? #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:09 PM Gr8 question! RT @cerirhiannon: maybe need to ask why we need a syllabus? do we always need one? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:10 PM You also need to take account of the  physical constraints of the environment you will be teaching in #ELTchat
vickyloras 9:10 PM @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:10 PM Some dignostic test or battery of tests given to them? #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:10 PM @Marisa_C In America they give them to students & parents & they must be signed indicating they were read & understood #ELTChat
MrChrisJWilson 9:10 PM @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan can be topic too. Business students don't want to spend all lesson every lesson talking about their job IME #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:10 PM Hello #ELTchat, syllabus design so much depends on general expectations of  institution here,which at schools means 'get ready 4state exam'
Shaunwilden 9:10 PM RT @ShellTerrell: What do you think about a student created/negotiated syllabus? #ELTChat As long as both sides can approach it rationally
AlexandraKouk 9:10 PM RT @ShellTerrell: What do you think about a student created/negotiated syllabus? #ELTChat
vickyloras 9:10 PM RT @SueAnnan: A syllabus needs variety as well #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:10 PM Given we have information about the learner's needs - should we take it for granted that the students have also been assessed #ELTchat
esolcourses 9:10 PM RT @cerirhiannon: maybe need to ask why we need a syllabus? do we always need one? #eltchat ] not necessarily - depends on course
toulasklavou 9:11 PM hi my dear eltchatters! i think a syll always important, the teacher knows what to do and when#eltchat
jankenb2 9:11 PM @AlexandraKouk @Shaunwilden #eltchat The steps involved in dev a syllabus begins w/instructor's personal goals of what is 2 be taught.1 of 2
esolcourses 9:11 PM RT @vickyloras: @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
MarianSteiner 9:11 PM #eltchat hi everyone, should we differentiate state education syllabus Vs individual, private, etc. courses?
YVNZCBLISS 9:11 PM Student choice of themes, after they start, for adapting the syllabus. More work for me  but greater engagement#ELTchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:11 PM #eltchat knowing the student[s] learner styles too can help.
cerirhiannon 9:11 PM guess maybe syllabus needed when more than one T expected to follow the same "path" - & for external stakeholders #eltchat
vickyloras 9:11 PM RT @cerirhiannon: need to be aware of and work with all the strands of acourse e.g. skills, language areas, functions etc #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:11 PM @AnnLoseva A syllabus should be a detailed document - what you describe isn't so it's just a directive #ELTchat
cioccas 9:11 PM RT @cerirhiannon: maybe need to ask why we need a syllabus? do we always need one? #eltchat > May need one for mgmt though
sandymillin 9:11 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
SueAnnan 9:12 PM @AnnLoseva  yes you can renegotiate mid course as needs may have changed. I always leave the last day of the week open #ELTchat
brambruggeman 9:12 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Here's a link to the Common European Framewk of Reference for Languages: Learning, Teaching, Assessment (CEFR) http://t.co/CFBG36r8 #Eltchat
Marisa_C 9:12 PM @ShellTerrell I See but language syllabuses are usually not usually handled in this way - for ESP however  usually are made public #ELTChat
AnnLoseva 9:12 PM #ELTchat do u think it's possible to deviate from initial syllabus?..
DinaDobrou 9:12 PM Good evening everyone! #ELTchat
wjputt 9:12 PM RT @vickyloras: @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:12 PM RT @SueAnnan: A syllabus needs variety as well #ELTchat >variety of task, materials, input and output
sandymillin 9:13 PM @cerirhiannon think syllabus more necessary in sth like an exam course, or if SS have specific aims. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:13 PM @sandymillin  and students expect one to a certain extent #eltchat
sandymillin 9:13 PM RT @cerirhiannon: maybe need to ask why we need a syllabus? do we always need one? #eltchat <depends on if there's an end goal
cerirhiannon 9:13 PM Have only worked on CB syllabuses -they are pretty detailed documents #eltchat
MarianSteiner 9:14 PM RT @vickyloras: @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:14 PM @sandymillin  we have similar and renegotiate every MOnday ! #eltchat
jankenb2 9:14 PM #eltchat 2 of 2 What I mean by inst'rs goals is that a good course b/g w/th passion the teacher has 4 topic. What is the essential or key?
cerirhiannon 9:14 PM @sandymillin #eltchat I think there's always an end goal -  but only some require syllabuses - room 4 retrospective syllabi in some contexts
sandymillin 9:14 PM RT @ShellTerrell: What do you think about a student created/negotiated syllabus? #ELTChat < gr8 idea, if u can get SS on board
esolcourses 9:14 PM @cerirhiannon valid point - however that may not  address learner needs very effectively (could be very top down, one size fts all) #eltchat
sandymillin 9:14 PM @cerirhiannon am now teaching GE with continuous enrolment, so syllabus is done on a weekly basis #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:14 PM RT @AnnLoseva: #ELTchat do u think it's possible to deviate from initial syllabus?.. Yesthough there are factors like the school 2 consider
cioccas 9:15 PM Same here> RT @sandymillin: @ShellTerrell whenever I've tried SS created/negotiated syllabus, they always say "you're the teacher". #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 9:15 PM @SueAnnan Every Monday, does that make for a lot of added work?  #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:15 PM RT @cioccas: Text-based Syllabus Design http://t.co/fT9cKIpK - Australian textbook - aging now, but good for beginning teachers #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 9:15 PM #eltchat so it looks like expectations as to what a syllabus IS can vary a lot among teachers! What about Ss expectations?
ShellTerrell 9:15 PM @Marisa_C In TX my language learners fr kids to univ all had to sign one as well. I guess it may be a US thing? #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:15 PM RT @sandymillin:  GE with continuous enrolment, so syllabus is done on a weekly basis #eltchat >is this a syllabus or a plan?
sandymillin 9:15 PM @ShellTerrell whenever I've tried SS created/negotiated syllabus, they always say "you're the teacher". How can I stop this? #ELTChat
cioccas 9:15 PM Text-based Syllabus Design http://t.co/fT9cKIpK - Australian textbook - aging now, but good for beginning teachers #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:16 PM RT @theteacherjames: We work on a particular st need for a few weeks then change. #eltchat > lots of BE and PLS course can work like this
MrChrisJWilson 9:16 PM @AlexandraKouk #eltchat Sts at my school expect a syllabus and to follow a book. They seam to trust the higher authority of it. [in general]
SueAnnan 9:16 PM @Shaunwilden  Not really. The teachers sit  down together after our lunch meeting and prepare the week together #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:16 PM @sandymillin Well I think it's because you are probably the 1st teacher to give them the choice. #ELTChat
theteacherjames 9:16 PM @cerirhiannon Good point. I don't do a syllabus. We work on a particular st need for a few weeks then change. #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:16 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat should also provide a clear focus for the course, laid out in achievable steps
toulasklavou 9:16 PM @cerirhiannon they are but they don't take into account all Ls' needs or preferences, it helps the T more #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:16 PM RT @sandymillin: @ShellTerrell they always say "you're the teacher". How can I stop this? #ELTChat > say " and you're the learner" ;)
Marisa_C 9:16 PM @ShellTerrell I am not sure - may be true of other countries as well - just 1st time I hear of it #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:17 PM @sandymillin Lesser of 2 evils ;-) A: I design it, u do what I say B: You get a say in assignmts/hmwrk/tests. Which do u prefer? #ELTChat
theteacherjames 9:17 PM RT @vickyloras: @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:17 PM @Shaunwilden  continuous enrolment always a bit of a b**ger #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:17 PM @SueAnnan by 'prepare' do you mean a list of objectives or a a range of topics and tasks/activities? #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:18 PM RT @Marisa_C: Iin order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives - #eltchat > yes
jmarkeyAP 9:18 PM RT @esolcourses: IMO, a good syllabus should reflect the needs of students and be realistic about what learners are likely to achieve on the course #ELTChat
sandymillin 9:18 PM @vickyloras @ShellTerrell The other prob of negotiated syl is SS have no ideas what to do & when I offer they just say yes that #ELTchat
jankenb2 9:18 PM #eltchat Once the instr. knows what they feel is impt, then the rest needs to align with program, dept or inst. needs. Authenticity.
Shaunwilden 9:18 PM @SueAnnan Oh yes a nightmare, but thats the joys of the job I guess :-) #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:18 PM I think that in order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives - #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:18 PM @Marisa_C  the objectives and topics. How we do it is left for me to plan #ELTchat
NatalieGorohova 9:18 PM @cerirhiannon @sandymillin @ShellTerrell "they always say "you're the teacher". How can I stop this? #ELTChat > say "NO YOU ARE THE TEACHER"
shaznosel 9:18 PM #eltchat -evening all! late ! just home! eating a sandwich and lurking..hope to gain some insights from you experts tonight!
YVNZCBLISS 9:18 PM @cioccas @sandymillin @ShellTerrell be proactive and make them vote on themes. I have found that works. #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:18 PM RT@cioccas: Text-based Syllabus Design http://t.co/9JHfEwyf - Australian textbook - aging now, but good for beginning teachers #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:19 PM @cerirhiannon it's called a weekly work plan thinking about it. syllabus is a (pretty useless!) list of can-do's lifted from CEF #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:19 PM RT @Marisa_C: Objectives, the means of achieving them and the means of evaluating their achievement all part of syllabus design #ELTchat
jankenb2 9:19 PM @sandymillin @ShellTerrell #eltchat. I agree, if the teacher can lay claim to "knowledge' then the students should be able to do it too.
theteacherjames 9:19 PM If you need to do a syllabus to satisfy management, why not do a retrospective syllabus? "This is what we did" #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:19 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @Marisa_C Isnt that why coursebooks do it better than many teachers, he said pulling pin and stepping back #ELTchat > LOL!
Marisa_C 9:19 PM Objectives, the means of achieving them and the means of evaluating their achievement all part of syllabus design #ELTchat
MarianSteiner 9:19 PM @MrChrisJWilson @AlexandraKouk I have similar experience. many adult learners might see it as unprofessional. needs a lot of expl. #eltchat
esolcourses 9:19 PM RT @Marisa_C I think that in order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:19 PM @ShellTerrell In my school a general syllabus is designed by headquarters for each class at the start of the year. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:19 PM @Marisa_C Isnt that why coursebooks do it better than many teachers, he said pulling pin and stepping back #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:19 PM RT @SueAnnan: we have similar and renegotiate every MOnday ! #eltchat <like this, but can be tiring constantly thinking of new syllabi
AnnLoseva 9:19 PM @sandymillin @shellterrell #ELTchat aah, yesss, nobody wants to be so very much responsible
SueAnnan 9:19 PM RT @Marisa_C: Iin order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives - #eltchat > yes
ShellTerrell 9:19 PM One important skill is for teachers to be able to communicate to learners the objs. Teachers I trained last wk struggled w this #ELTChat
vickyloras 9:20 PM RT @theteacherjames: If you need to do a syllabus to satisfy management, why not do a retrospective syllabus? "This is what we did" #eltchat
sandymillin 9:20 PM @vickyloras don't have a week - i teach same group for 20 hours in one week, have to finish plan by tuesday 12pm, new ss nxt wk #ELTchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:20 PM @esolcourses @theteacherjames because your management set the syllabus and pacechart! #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:20 PM @theteacherjames: I don't do a syllabus.We work on a particular st need for a few weeks then change. #eltchat -that makes sense,for ind sts!
Marisa_C 9:20 PM That is why test designers are good syllabus writers - objectives setting is not an easy thing to do well #Eltchat
SueAnnan 9:20 PM @theteacherjames  British Council like it on the wall for students to see at beginning of week! #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:20 PM RT @theteacherjames: why not do a retrospective syllabus? "This is what we did" #eltchat > ah, if only!
esolcourses 9:20 PM RT @theteacherjames: If you need to do a syllabus to satisfy management, why not do a retrospective syllabus? #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:20 PM @ShellTerrell Sorry to say it is considered by some Ts as THE syllabus and sometimes even confused with the term Lesson Plan...#ELTchat
vickyloras 9:20 PM @sandymillin @ShellTerrell Maybe you can let them think it over for a week, until next lesson? #ELTchat
theteacherjames 9:21 PM @SueAnnan @cerirhiannon  #eltchat Just an idea -  not necessarily realistic! #eltchat
sandymillin 9:21 PM RT @cerirhiannon: guess maybe syllabus needed when more than one T expected to follow the same "path"#eltchat <more useful 4 shared classes
theteacherjames 9:22 PM @MrChrisJWilson That depends on where you work. My previous employer only needed my syllabus at the end of the course. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:22 PM @sandymillin depends on class. #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:22 PM RT @SueAnnan: @sandymillin  we have a rolling syllabus for teens -clear objectives 4 teachers & large repository of material #ELTchat> nice
vickyloras 9:22 PM @sandymillin Oh ok, then it's a different ballgame ; ) #ELTChat
toulasklavou 9:22 PM @shaznosel Hello Shaz! #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:22 PM RT@Marisa_C: I think that in order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives #eltchat
sandymillin 9:22 PM @SueAnnan do you teach adults too? how does syllabus work for them? #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:22 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @ShellTerrell: What do u think about a st created/negotiated syllabus? #ELTChat > Requires a degree of maturity frm st
ShellTerrell 9:22 PM @sandymillin I break it up into small grps> Each takes a theme (txtbk unit)- they suggest What's a good proj? Hmwrk? Task? Etc. #ELTChat
esolcourses 9:22 PM @MrChrisJWilson @theteacherjames depends where you work & the course, I suppose.  Some contexts more flexible than others, perhaps #ELTChat
theteacherjames 9:23 PM @AnnLoseva Easier for individual students, but you can negotiate shared goals with a group too. #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:23 PM @sandymillin  exam classes have CB. Syll for ESP necessary and GE classes negotite each week #ELTchat
Brendano 9:23 PM #eltchat First i need to know what my students already know, regardless of the content of the syllabus ...
cerirhiannon 9:23 PM RT @SueAnnan:  means that teachers can adapt to style of lesson, skill needed etc #ELTchat > a good syllabus should always allow this space
ShellTerrell 9:23 PM @DinaDobrou @AlexandraKouk I would agree that works with Ss at a certain age & language level required #Eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:23 PM @theteacherjames wow that really is the complete opposite of my current job! #elt really is so varied! #eltchat
jankenb2 9:23 PM @SueAnnan #eltchat. A syllabus w/core learnings to insure some continuity in the program. Deductive, inductive & abductive logic works best
shaznosel 9:23 PM @toulasklavou Hi babe - lurking a bit tonight - this is your area!#eltchat
SueAnnan 9:23 PM @cerirhiannon  it means that teachers can adapt to style of lesson, skill needed etc #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:23 PM @SueAnnan so no overall syllabus for your adult classes? up to teachers to pick and choose for weekly work plan? #ELTchat
toulasklavou 9:24 PM @shaznosel Always so kind!#eltchat
NatalieGorohova 9:24 PM @AnnLoseva @Marisa_C #eltchat MEASURABLE is the key word for me here. I'm looking to adding this to my #dogme attitudes
sandymillin 9:24 PM @SueAnnan is it easy to get new/quiet SS involved in the negotiations? this is one of my problems #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:24 PM Gd pt! RT @DinaDobrou: Sorry to say it is considered by some Ts as THE syllabus & sometimes even confused w the term Lesson Plan...#ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 9:24 PM RT @cerirhiannon: RT @SueAnnan:  means that teachers can adapt to style of lesson, skill needed etc #ELTchat > a good syllabus should always allow this space
sandymillin 9:24 PM @SueAnnan how do you go about negotiating for GE classes? is it completely open or some kind of framework?  #ELTchat
theteacherjames 9:24 PM @MrChrisJWilson Guess I was lucky :) #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:24 PM @Brendano  the syllabus comes AFTER that part #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:25 PM @sandymillin @SueAnnan  if u can create a sit where Ss are offering materials, ideas as starting points for lessons it can work #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:25 PM Gr8 tip! RT @YVNZCBLISS: be proactive and make them vote on themes. I have found that works. #eltchat
esolcourses 9:25 PM RT @Brendano: #eltchat First i need to know what my students already know, regardless of the content of the syllabus ... ] very good point
sandymillin 9:25 PM RT @SueAnnan: @Shaunwilden  continuous enrolment always a bit of a b**ger #ELTchat <seconded!
ShellTerrell 9:25 PM Not surprised RT @DinaDobrou: In my school a general syllabus is designed by headquarters for each class at the start of the year. #ELTchat
MarianSteiner 9:25 PM honestly, I see syllabus mostly as a bureucratic tool to differentiate between "success" and "failure" in statistics #eltchat
steven_odonnell 9:26 PM RT @theteacherjames: If you need to do a syllabus to satisfy management, why not do a retrospective syllabus? "This is what we did" #eltchat
sandymillin 9:26 PM @cerirhiannon @SueAnnan and i completely change levels every 6 weeks or so, so complete change of SS (some stay when w/ same level) #eltchat
shaznosel 9:26 PM @AnnLoseva How do we measure objectives? Attainable within a time span/ analaytic and we move on when ss have passed the objective?#eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:26 PM @Raquel_EFL  #eltchat - maybe :)  but flexibility can be built into syllabuses
SueAnnan 9:26 PM @sandymillin yes b/c always have sts left ovr from previous week+ get them discuss  from a varity of topics, skills, etc #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:26 PM @cerirhiannon @SueAnnan again, like the idea, but so much learner training involved! most of my SS only here for up to 3 weeks #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:26 PM @MarianSteiner Thats quite an opinion, how do come to that? Surely its the testing that leads to statistics? #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:26 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @Brendano: #eltchat First i need to know what my students already know, regardless of the content of the syllabus ... ] very good point
ShellTerrell 9:26 PM RT @MarianSteiner: honestly, I see syllabus mostly as a bureucratic tool to differentiate between "success" and "failure" in statistics #eltchat
jankenb2 9:27 PM #eltchat How many pages should a syllabus have? Is it an informal agreement w/student or info doc? @SueAnnan
sandymillin 9:27 PM RT @Marisa_C: Objectives, the means of achieving them and the means of evaluating their achievement all part of syllabus design #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:27 PM @shaznosel where is toula - she should upload her syllabus design assignemt somewhere - don't have it here  #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:27 PM The process of creating a syllabus I think is really great for a teacher to get a vision for the course, learner needs & goals #ELTChat
shaznosel 9:27 PM @esolcourses @ShellTerrell @Brendano good point - needs analysis first..#eltchat
SueAnnan 9:27 PM RT @cerirhiannon:  if u cn create a sit whr Ss R offering materials, ideas as starting points 4 lessons it cn work #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:28 PM @theteacherjames  Yes #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:28 PM @sandymillin For the forthcoming week? #eltchat
sandymillin 9:28 PM RT @SueAnnan: @theteacherjames  British Council like it on the wall for students to see at beginning of week! #eltchat <yep
SueAnnan 9:28 PM @jankenb2  WE do it weekly so usually only one or two pages #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:28 PM @jankenb2 Should the answer to that just be as many as it needs?  #ELTchat
shaznosel 9:28 PM @Marisa_C She's here ..told her to chat as she is sooo good at this! I ll tell her to upload!#eltchat
Marisa_C 9:28 PM @jankenb2 I have worked with prof syl designers and supervise their writing & consensus is lots of detail  #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:28 PM I always found creating the syllabus 1st helped me build a foundation where I could then plan lessons more effectively #ELTChat
cerirhiannon 9:28 PM @jankenb2 @SueAnnan  informative and informing doc I think #eltchat
sandymillin 9:28 PM @theteacherjames [retrospective syllabus] because it has to be handed in by tuesday 12pm each week ;)  #eltchat
jankenb2 9:29 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat Yes, objectives and course goals are v/impt, & info on how to drop a course, given rules on lifetime limits 4 Fed fund.
SueAnnan 9:29 PM @sedayyildirim  do you have a syllabus imposed on you then? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 9:29 PM RT @ShellTerrell: I always found creating the syllabus 1st helped me build a foundation where I could then plan lessons more effectively #ELTChat
Marialva 9:29 PM RT @MarianSteiner: honestly, I see syllabus mostly as a bureucratic tool to differentiate between "success" and "failure" in statistics #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:29 PM @Raquel_EFL @ShellTerrell It is good 4 T (esp. inexper.) 2 know wht to cover but supporting Ts to adapt & reflect is also essential #ELTchat
theteacherjames 9:29 PM @sandymillin @SueAnnan Never mind... #eltchat
sandymillin 9:29 PM @theteacherjames yep (for the forthcoming week) - same as Sue. Requirement for British Council accreditation to be valid #eltchat
sedayyildirim 9:29 PM I'm fed up with the same syllabuses every each year , no change .  #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:29 PM RT@MarianSteiner: I see syllabus mostly as a bureucratic tool to differentiate between "success" and "failure" in statistics #ELTchat
bnleez 9:29 PM RT @cerirhiannon: RT @SueAnnan:  means that teachers can adapt to style of lesson, skill needed etc #ELTchat > a good syllabus should always allow this space
Shaunwilden 9:30 PM @anakaserena What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do teachers need?   #eltchat
cioccas 9:30 PM @anakaserena #ELTchat topic: What steps are part of the process of designing a syllabus? What knowledge & skills do Ts need?
sedayyildirim 9:30 PM @SueAnnan absolutely yes ! #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:30 PM What must you include in your syllabus? The rules, course description, textbooks used, a calendar, grading policy??? #ELTChat
Marisa_C 9:30 PM @anakaserena syllabus design  #eltchat
Marialva 9:30 PM RT @vickyloras: @ShellTerrell I like the idea of a negotiated syllabus, more flexible that way and suited to student's needs #ELTchat
anakaserena 9:30 PM Just joined the convo on #eltchat. What is the topic?
AnnLoseva 9:30 PM @MarianSteiner #ELTchat I see your point, connects to 'measurable' from a diff side
GatewaytoSkills 9:30 PM List of 22 #rainforest #vocabulary words for #ELL #students http://t.co/DXwjPoRv #ellchat #eltchat #scichat #ntchat #edchat
sandymillin 9:30 PM RT @cerirhiannon #eltchat - doesn't sound like a syllabus either ;)  (CEF statements) <nope, i write plan then try to squeeze into CEF!
ShellTerrell 9:31 PM Ermmm @Raquel_EFL is tweeting me during #ELTChat & she's just behind me ;-)
antoniaclare 9:31 PM Hi everyone, also just arrived - for the next 30 mins my tweets will be dedicated to #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:31 PM @sandymillin How much detail do you have to give them? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:31 PM @sandymillin  oops me too, sometimes. My focus is always on learner needs and wants first #eltchat
cioccas 9:31 PM RT @Marisa_C: Our topic is really not if we don't need a syllabus ...- but if you do want to write one what skills u need #ELtchat
MarianSteiner 9:31 PM @Shaunwilden exaggerating, but inspections frm Ministry of Ed. gave us nightmares if we didn't "follow" syllabus to the letter.. #eltchat
bnleez 9:31 PM School culture drives how a syllabus is written, taught, and tested. #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:31 PM Our topic is really not if we don't need a syllabus - some people never will - but if you do want to write one what skills u need #ELtchat
toulasklavou 9:31 PM @Marisa_C @shaznosel give me a sec and I'll do it!#eltchat
theteacherjames 9:32 PM @Marisa_C I wouldn't like that :( #eltchat
englishsisters 9:32 PM RT @bnleez: School culture drives how a syllabus is written, taught, and tested. #eltchat
sandymillin 9:32 PM RT @SueAnnan:   oops me too, sometimes. My focus is always on learner needs and wants first #eltchat <snap!
Shaunwilden 9:32 PM @MarianSteiner Aha yes well the good old tick box apprach to education is rather pointless and unnecesary  #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:32 PM RT @bnleez: School culture drives how a syllabus is written, taught, and tested. #eltchat
voxy 9:32 PM True RT @brendano: #eltchat First i need to know what my students already know, regardless of the content of the syllabus.
Marisa_C 9:32 PM @theteacherjames lots of detail needed  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 9:32 PM @ShellTerrell #eltchat first of all, your goals, how you plan to achieve them and in what order! then it's lots of micro-planning, lol
DinaDobrou 9:32 PM RT @Marisa_C: I think that in order to write a good syllabus you need to be able to write very good, clear and measurable objectives - #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:33 PM RT @cerirhiannon: RT @SueAnnan:  means that teachers can adapt to style of lesson, skill needed etc #ELTchat > a good syllabus should always allow this space
bamarcia 9:33 PM I'm in front of u both just lurking! LOL RT @ShellTerrell: Ermmm @Raquel_EFL is tweeting me during #ELTChat & she's just behind me ;-)
MarianSteiner 9:33 PM “@Shaunwilden: Aha yes well the good old tick box apprach to education is rather pointless and unnecesary  #eltchat†> exactly :)
cerirhiannon 9:33 PM RT @antoniaclare: I think it's useful to start with a list of spoken (or written) outcomes which you think will be useful to sts #eltchat
cioccas 9:33 PM RT @sandymillin: RT @SueAnnan:  .... My focus is always on learner needs and wants first #eltchat <snap! < And snap again!
cerirhiannon 9:33 PM skills needed:  attention to detail, knowledge of the big picture, ability to indentify and describe objectives ...#eltchat
antoniaclare 9:33 PM I think it's useful to start with a list of spoken (or written) outcomes which you think will be useful to sts #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:34 PM RT @shaznosel: needs,purpose, syllabus type, lang to be used, testing, methodolgy,evaluation,teacher training, recyle stage #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:34 PM RT @antoniaclare: then start to fit in vocab and grammar / function / CEFs  etc to that framework #eltchat
shaznosel 9:34 PM @antoniaclare agree - needs analysis with ss input too??#eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:34 PM RT @bamarcia: I'm in front of u both just lurking! LOL RT @ShellTerrell: Ermmm @Raquel_EFL is tweeting me during #ELTChat & she's just behind me ;-)
antoniaclare 9:34 PM then start to fit in vocab and grammar / function / CEFs  etc to that framework #eltchat
MarianSteiner 9:34 PM RT @antoniaclare: I think it's useful to start with a list of spoken (or written) outcomes which you think will be useful to sts #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:34 PM @theteacherjames Well not all teachers are required to be syllabus designers - that's why a special skill and paid extremely well  #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:35 PM RT @shaznosel: @antoniaclare agree - needs analysis with ss input too??#eltchat - Yes, of course.  I might get them to choose from my list
Shaunwilden 9:35 PM @voxy No harm in suggesting it is there? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:35 PM @theteacherjames well then this is not your chat :-D  #theDword #eltchat
voxy 9:35 PM Do you think homework should be listed in details in a syllabus? Should teachers stick to it if included? #eltchat
LiveBinders 9:35 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Free Friday Webinar: Chanting Games 4 Learners, 1/27 4pmNYC/9pmUK http://t.co/LjejkIhy #eltchat #esl #ellchat #langchat #elemchat
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cerirhiannon 9:35 PM RT @SueAnnan: Once you know what is needed, how long you have to do it, under what restraints,  you can start the design of the syllabus #ELTchat
YVNZCBLISS 9:35 PM #ELTchat syllabus for classes on moodle now with flexibility built in as long as vocab, grammar, skills covered. Allows individual tch style
theteacherjames 9:35 PM @Marisa_C It's not the design that would bother me, it's the requirement to be so detailed, too prescriptive. #theDword #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:35 PM Once you know what is needed, how long you have to do it, under what restraints,  you can start the design of the syllabus #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:35 PM RT @shaznosel: needs,purpose, syllabus type, lang to be used, testing, methodolgy,evaluation,teacher training, recyle stage #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:36 PM Agree! RT @DinaDobrou: It's good 4 T (esp. inexper.) 2 know wht to cover but supporting Ts to adapt & reflect is also essential #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:36 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @Marisa_C @theteacherjames  Now now enuff of 4th letter of the alphabet mentioning #eltchat LOL Dragons again
antoniaclare 9:36 PM RT @Raquel_EFL: & the skills? a list of wht U expect R stds 2 produce... the subskills needed, the assumptions underpinning them#eltchat Yes
cioccas 9:36 PM @theteacherjames @Marisa_C And too much detail could deter some Ts from being flexible & addressing needs in class  #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:36 PM RT @ShellTerrell: I always found creating the syllabus 1st helped me build a foundation where I could then plan lessons more effectively #ELTChat
ShellTerrell 9:36 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: @ShellTerrell #eltchat first of all, your goals, how you plan to achieve them and in what order! then it's lots of micro-planning, lol
theteacherjames 9:36 PM @Marisa_C Are you giving me a red card? Is this the first #eltchat sending off?! :-D
Shaunwilden 9:36 PM @Marisa_C @theteacherjames  Now now enuff of 4th letter of the alphabet mentioning #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:36 PM @theteacherjames @Marisa_C  detail not necessarily prescriptive of means for achieving the objs - just for clarity in defining objs#eltchat
SueAnnan 9:36 PM @Shaunwilden  I think my students do homework if they wish and wouldn't like it programmed in :-( #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:36 PM A syllabus not always required, selected or followed - but if done how should it be done - hello this the topic #eltchat
bnleez 9:36 PM Syllabus: Outcomes or expressive objectives, possible learning objects, expectations, rubrics, key assessments or performance tasks#ELTChat
theteacherjames 9:37 PM @Shaunwilden Are you sticking your oar in again?! #can'tresist #eltchat
jankenb2 9:37 PM @cerirhiannon @antoniaclare #eltchat. Fink's book on course design? The syllabus  is a link in a chain of learnings-political, soc & content
Marisa_C 9:37 PM @theteacherjames no no  just saying our topic is how to do it well - can't give our master podcaster a red card  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:37 PM @DinaDobrou No i can't do them from tweetdeck anymore #eltchat
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shaznosel 9:37 PM #eltchat - isn't the order of all this syllabus input important to or do we go wit the flow?? kinda dogme but no syllabus for dogme!
DinaDobrou 9:37 PM Am I the only one with problems with long updates (bit.ly)? #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:37 PM @SueAnnan Thats why I said suggested #eltchat
MarianSteiner 9:38 PM @Marisa_C I think a good syllabus should include the phrase: "By the end of the [...] the sts will have learnt [...] " #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:38 PM @Shaunwilden hehe, sure you were... #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:38 PM RAt@SueAnnan: my sts do homework if they wish and wouldn't like it programmed in #eltchatâ€- I would certainly deviate from built-in homework
DinaDobrou 9:38 PM RT @sedayyildirim: I'm fed up with the same syllabuses every each year , no change .  #eltchat
NatalieGorohova 9:38 PM @AnnLoseva @MarianSteiner #ELTchat PLEASE watch this TED talk on success and failure http://t.co/E3mUPXvy
theteacherjames 9:38 PM @Marisa_C hehe, well don't worry, I've done that too! #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:38 PM @shaznosel I'm not sure how important order is, apart from moving from simple to complex.  We don't learn in any fixed order. #eltchat
cioccas 9:38 PM @ShellTerrell @DinaDobrou: Agree, good to have syllabus as framework, but essential to have room to reflect & adapt #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:38 PM @theteacherjames No no just moderating :-) #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:38 PM @Shaunwilden Thnx. Been away for way too long methinks...#ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:38 PM @Shaunwilden  Neither can I #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:39 PM @MarianSteiner that's a great statemet of just ONE of the objectives of that great syllabus :-D #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:39 PM RT @sandymillin: An example of one of my work plans (closest thing to syl). The codes (G12, W1) based on CEF statements #eltchat http://t.co/SnoWWKsY
DinaDobrou 9:39 PM @sedayyildirim Except if you change coursebooks so you HAVE to have a new syllabus. #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:39 PM Agree! RT @DinaDobrou: It is good 4 T (esp. inexper.) 2 know wht to cover but supporting Ts to adapt & reflect is also essential #ELTchat
bnleez 9:39 PM Yes, but more than likely one would emerge by the end of the course RT @Marisa_C: A syllabus not always required...#eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:39 PM RT @MarianSteiner: @Marisa_C I think a good syllabus should include the phrase: "By the end of the [...] the sts will have learnt [...] " #eltchat
dmaduliwilliams 9:39 PM I think it shud b welcoming & get stndts excited 4 class not just list rules & "Do Nots.".  #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:39 PM @sedayyildirim And if there is...it's so subtle...you don't even notice! :P #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:39 PM An example of one of my work plans (closest thing to syl). The codes (G12, W1) based on CEF statements #eltchat http://t.co/SnoWWKsY
toulasklavou 9:40 PM @shaznosel how do i upload pdf docs?#eltchat
sandymillin 9:40 PM @Shaunwilden to design a syllabus Ts need needs anaylsis, awareness of avail materials, to know how to balance skills/systems #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:40 PM There is the concept of prescriptive - prefabricated syllabus as well as a formative negotiable one #eLTchat
MarianSteiner 9:40 PM “@Marisa_C: @MarianSteiner that's a great statemet of just ONE of the objectives of that great syllabus :-D #eltchat†> repeat X times? :)
SueAnnan 9:40 PM @antoniaclare  I think that should even be part of an individual lesson plan #eltchat
shaznosel 9:40 PM @ShellTerrell Defo!  - how do we decide between synthetic syllabi and analytic - I m confused -is it methods??#eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:40 PM RT@cioccas: @ShellTerrell @DinaDobrou: Agree, good to have syllabus as framework, but essential to have room to reflect & adapt #ELTchatâ€
Shaunwilden 9:40 PM RT @antoniaclare: @Marisa_C I think a good syllabus should include the phrase: "By the end of the [...] the sts will have learnt [...] " #eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:40 PM #eltchat At our school it's always "By the end of the lesson, students will be able to..." and an ability rather than vocab/grammar point.
antoniaclare 9:40 PM @Marisa_C I think a good syllabus should include the phrase: "By the end of the [...] the sts will have learnt [...] " #eltchat
jurylady5 9:40 PM RT @ShellTerrell: What must you include in your syllabus? The rules, course description, textbooks used, a calendar, grading policy??? #ELTChat
mrsalander 9:41 PM RT @theteacherjames: If you need to do a syllabus to satisfy management, why not do a retrospective syllabus? "This is what we did" #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:41 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @DinaDobrou @sedayyildirim Shouldnt the cbk complement the syllabus not be the syllabus? #eltchat > yes
ShellTerrell 9:41 PM Here's a syllabus tutorial by the Univ of Minnesota. Not language based but still some good tips http://t.co/kv4Zw7RV #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:41 PM @SueAnnan @sedayyildirim I have. But they give us room to adapt. But as I said earlier it is smtimes confused with a lesson plan. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:41 PM @DinaDobrou @sedayyildirim Shouldnt the cbk complement the syllabus not be the syllabus? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:41 PM @toulasklavou you can't email it to me  #eltchat
jankenb2 9:41 PM @dmaduliwilliams #eltchat That is another good feature-either a voice or podcast intro or welcome letter. More human and less authority fig.
SueAnnan 9:41 PM RT @Marisa_C: There is the concept of prescriptive - prefabricated syllabus as well as a formative negotiable one #eLTchat
vickyloras 9:41 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Agree! RT @DinaDobrou: It is good 4 T (esp. inexper.) 2 know wht to cover but supporting Ts to adapt & reflect is also essential #ELTchat
ShellTerrell 9:42 PM RT @cioccas: @DinaDobrou Good point - relationship between coursebook & syllabus - Does using CB encourage less flexibility in syllabus? #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:42 PM RT @antoniaclare: #eltchat  sts like to know the main objectives of a lesson (in terms of skills/lang)- gd motivator > and of course
YVNZCBLISS 9:42 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat a good class is a blend of prescriptive and prefabricated and more engaging.
DinaDobrou 9:42 PM @Shaunwilden @sedayyildirim good point! but in theory by covering a CB sts cover an array of topics/functions etc. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:42 PM Agree - in most schools CB  is the syllabus - schools should design own and THEN look for mats to achieve objectives #Eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:42 PM RT @antoniaclare: #eltchat Flexibility is important, but I think sts like to know the main objectives of a lesson (in terms of skills/lang)- gd motivator
vickyloras 9:42 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Here's a syllabus tutorial by the Univ of Minnesota. Not language based but still some good tips http://t.co/kv4Zw7RV #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:42 PM @cioccas  No because not all units of CB will interest students #ELTchat
cerirhiannon 9:42 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @voxy Completely agree, i think if its there is adds the idea it is accepted practice #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:42 PM RT @shaznosel: how do we decide between synthetic syllabi and analytic - I m confused -is it methods??#eltchat
sedayyildirim 9:42 PM @DinaDobrou just the cover changes,  coz of money purpose ! they don't care the needs but I do :)  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:42 PM @voxy Completely agree, i think if its there is adds the idea it is accepted practice #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:42 PM #eltchat Flexibility is important, but I think sts like to know the main objectives of a lesson (in terms of skills/lang)- gd motivator
cioccas 9:42 PM @DinaDobrou Good point - relationship between coursebook & syllabus - Does using CB encourage less flexibility in syllabus? #ELTchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:42 PM @Shaunwilden @DinaDobrou @sedayyildirim or coursebooks #eltchat
bnleez 9:43 PM The book is never the syllabus, uncover content instead of covering content #eltchat
sandymillin 9:43 PM @theteacherjames tweeted an example of work plan so you can see level of detail #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:43 PM RT @DinaDobrou: @Shaunwilden @sedayyildirim good point! but in theory by covering a CB sts cover an array of topics/functions etc. #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 9:43 PM @Shaunwilden @sedayyildirim And in my school syllabi (or syllabuses) revolve around CBs most of the time. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:43 PM @DinaDobrou @sedayyildirim  yes but thats the fault if many lang schools using the cbk as a syllabus #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:43 PM RT @Marisa_C: Agree - in most schools CB  is the syllabus - schools should design own and THEN look for mats to achieve objectives #Eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:44 PM RT @theteacherjames: In my syllabus, I used to include a list of what the students could expect from me. Goes both ways. #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:44 PM RT @antoniaclare: #eltchat most CBs follow CEF and someone (!!) spends huge amounts of time researching what shld& shldn't be in it ;) > LOL
cioccas 9:44 PM @SueAnnan: #ELTchat But does CB restrict some novice Ts who think they need to follow it faithfully as syllabus? Back to skills needed ques
Marisa_C 9:44 PM @theteacherjames what you give the ss for review and choice does not need to be a detailed technical document  #eltchat
shaznosel 9:44 PM @jankenb2 me too..think you have some order or it becomes like a dogme lesson - no syllabus just go with the flow!#eltchat
web20education 9:44 PM #edtech20 post #zeropc is Lifetime #socialmedia #curation desktop in the cloud http://t.co/wgKDdvfx #elearning #edchat #ukedchat #eltchat
fionamau 9:44 PM #eltchat Sorry, really wanted to join you but come down with a lurgy so lurking from bed.Look fwd to reading the summary. Night!
antoniaclare 9:44 PM #eltchat Also, most coursebooks follow CEF and someone (!!) spends huge amounts of time researching what shld and shldn't be in it ;)
theteacherjames 9:44 PM In my syllabus, I used to include a list of what the students could expect from me. Goes both ways. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:44 PM @DinaDobrou and as a result the sts are tested on their book knowledge rather than what they know? #eltchat
sandymillin 9:45 PM RT @jankenb2: @Shaunwilden Ts need to know how a course fits in w/other course in dept/program or in degree <not in priv lang schl #eltchat
DinaDobrou 9:45 PM @Shaunwilden @sedayyildirim Another valid point! But we're a group of 250 language schools in 3 different countries. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:45 PM I ask my students where they would like to be at by Friday. They tell me where their focus is and I plan accordingly #ELTchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:45 PM @theteacherjames in terms of... material? classroom attitude? etc? #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:46 PM @cioccas  When I'm doing TT course I allow teaching from CB for 1 week and not for the others. We can then debate how syllabi work #ELTchat
shaznosel 9:46 PM @antoniaclare too true - someone takes away those hours of stress for Ts!!! Thanks but depends on the CB ....#eltchat
theteacherjames 9:46 PM @Marisa_C Interesting. Don't syllabus often include classroom rules etc? Teacher's version? #eltchat
sedayyildirim 9:46 PM @MrChrisJWilson @Shaunwilden @DinaDobrou coursebooks are correlated with the syllabus but too late updates we have ! #eltchat
esolcourses 9:46 PM RT @SueAnnan: I ask my students where they would like to be at by Friday. They tell me where their focus is and I plan accordingly #ELTchat
cioccas 9:47 PM RT @Raquel_EFL: @ShellTerrell ...a syllabus is planning not a lesson but a whole course...have to keep mind assessment criteria too #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:47 PM If you have students collaborate on the syllabus, Google Docs with a layout is a great way to do this #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 9:47 PM RT @sandymillin: RT @jankenb2: @Shaunwilden Ts need to know how a course fits in w/other course in dept/program or in degree <not in priv lang schl #eltchat
shaznosel 9:47 PM @toulasklavou Im not sure - ask Shelley!#eltchat
vickyloras 9:47 PM RT @theteacherjames In my syl,I used to include a list of what the students could expect from me. Goes both ways. #eltchat > Super
toulasklavou 9:47 PM @Marisa_C just did it!!#eltchat
theteacherjames 9:47 PM @MrChrisJWilson Could be, depends on how you want to present yourself. However you do it, sends a strong message. #eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:47 PM #eltchat our Russian course is joint planned and frequently changes. we get to choose topic...or grammar point!
bnleez 9:47 PM CEF is just a standard, or a way to assess Ss performance to criteria...perhaps has little to do with instruction #eltchat
cioccas 9:48 PM RT @SueAnnan: When I'm doing TT course I allow teaching from CB for 1 week & not for the others... then debate how syllabi work #ELTchat
sandymillin 9:48 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: @voxy #eltchat Don't know for sure but homework should be more than an after thought. (not that I always do treat it so)
Shaunwilden 9:48 PM @AlexandraKouk bits of both? #eltchat
shaznosel 9:48 PM @vickyloras @theteacherjames love  #eltchat idea - part of their objectives - hey why not have ss objectives too!!
Marisa_C 9:48 PM @theteacherjames no t really #ELTchat
bnleez 9:48 PM syllabus: desired results, evidence of understanding and language, and learning progression (UbD) #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:48 PM @bnleez I think the CEF does well to focus on skills and ability, rather than Grammar/vocab, but it's sometimes too narrow in focus #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 9:48 PM #eltchat So, are we talking about syllabi as admin or language tools here?
web20education 9:48 PM Brochure Top 10 #socialmedia practice/projects in Europe @elearningeuropa http://t.co/xoTTdkZE #edchat #ukedchat #elearning #eltchat #cpchat
voxy 9:48 PM Great tip RT @theteacherjames: In my syllabus, I used to include a list of what the students could expect from me. Goes both ways. #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:49 PM @shaznosel Well the ss objectives would be the foundation of my syllabus. #eltchat
sedayyildirim 9:49 PM @DinaDobrou for ex :  some coursebooks have pics of artists that this age sts can't remember & know .. #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:49 PM @bnleez It's not a very easy document to work with! It needs interpreting, and outcomes made more relevant to your sts #eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:49 PM #eltchat strangely though I am a teacher I tend to focus on language points I want to cover rather than skills in my Russian course
jankenb2 9:49 PM @cioccas @SueAnnan #eltchat I do PD. I find new Ts need lots of "stuff"...closets full of it, while exp 1's don't...CB c/b is a gd framewk
SueAnnan 9:49 PM RT @Marisa_C: I think the reason many teachers objet 2 pre-specified syllabuses is that they do inclde the notion of accountability #eltchat
theteacherjames 9:49 PM @Marisa_C fair enough, suppose it depends on how formal the institution is. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:49 PM I think the reason many teachers objet to pre-specified syllabuses is that they do include the notion of accountability #eltchat
esolcourses 9:50 PM @ShellTerrell slow internet here, too :-( #ELTChat
toulasklavou 9:50 PM @Marisa_C the course plan is in the file i sent, i'll send you the appendices as well #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:50 PM @cioccas @SueAnnan  #ELTchatVdifficult for new Ts to get into syllabus design b4 even learnign to write good aims/objectives #eltchat
bnleez 9:50 PM Can't be both? RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat So, are we talking about syllabi as admin or language tools here?
ShellTerrell 9:50 PM Sorry slow internet :( #ELTChat
bnleez 9:50 PM antoniaclare, yes, and (CEF) does little to promote higher-order thinking skills which complement language skills #eltchat
NatalieGorohova 9:51 PM @cioccas @Raquel_EFL @ShellTerrell #eltchat what about teaching students this way? one week - the book, one week - none?
sandymillin 9:51 PM RT @antoniaclare: @Marisa_C I think a good syllabus should include the phrase: "By the end of the [...] the sts will have learnt [...] " #eltchat
cerirhiannon 9:51 PM RT @esolcourses: @ShellTerrell slow internet here, too :-( #ELTChat > sluggish here too  :(
SueAnnan 9:51 PM @Marisa_C  yes. That comes in first week #ELTchatVdifficult #eltchat
bnleez 9:51 PM Syllabus relates to all stakeholders #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:51 PM @MrChrisJWilson Interesting - does that reflect in the way you teach too? #eltchat
NatalieGorohova 9:51 PM RT @cioccas: RT @SueAnnan: When I'm doing TT course I allow teaching from CB for 1 week & not for the others... then debate how syllabi work #ELTchat
SueAnnan 9:52 PM @Marisa_C  No we help them with the design ideas and THEY write them in week 4 #eltchat
sandymillin 9:52 PM @Shaunwilden coursebook should complement syllabus, but when a DOS write 20 at start of year for shared classes, can be diffclt?? #eltchat
ShellTerrell 9:52 PM Why not? RT @NatalieGorohova: #eltchat what about teaching students this way? one week - the book, one week - none?
shaznosel 9:52 PM @theteacherjames I wish...! We go with the school owner's decisions - SS have no input but I mange to sway it in class a little! #eltchat
sedayyildirim 9:52 PM yes I've lots of complaints about the syllabuses but to be frank I've no idea how should they be . it's hard to please all of us  #eltchat
mscro1 9:52 PM RT @ShellTerrell: If you have students collaborate on the syllabus, Google Docs with a layout is a great way to do this #ELTChat
esolcourses 9:52 PM @cerirhiannon @ShellTerrell perhaps it's twitter rather than us, then? #ELTChat
bnleez 9:52 PM @antoniaclare I don't consider CEF a planning tool, but rather an assessment tool. #eltchat
parrpakala 9:52 PM @Marisa_C hi M, what's the theme today pls? #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:52 PM @SueAnnan and in week two they write a syllabus? #eltchat
YVNZCBLISS 9:52 PM #eltchat GTG but enjoyed lurking.
ShellTerrell 9:52 PM RT @bnleez: Can't be both? RT @AlexandraKouk: #eltchat So, are we talking about syllabi as admin or language tools here?
DinaDobrou 9:52 PM @Shaunwilden It's complicated. We've got to have a general syllabus but we also focus on CEF statements when adapting it in class.#ELTchat
shaznosel 9:53 PM @ShellTerrell @NatalieGorohova Im thinking to suggest this to my school owner - you read my thoughts! #ELTCHAT
antoniaclare 9:53 PM RT @bnleez: antoniaclare CEF does little to promote higher-order thinking skills which complement language skills #eltchat Agreed!
ShellTerrell 9:53 PM @esolcourses @cerirhiannon Good! Thought it was me LOL #ELTChat
AlexandraKouk 9:53 PM #eltchat then, do you need a diff set of skills for an admin tool than a lang tool?
Marisa_C 9:53 PM @parrpakala syllabus design and how to do it #Eltchat
theteacherjames 9:53 PM @sandymillin Thanks for the example. suppose I could just about manage that :) #eltchat
sandymillin 9:54 PM RT @antoniaclare: #eltchat Also, most coursebooks follow CEF and someone (!!) spends huge amounts of time researching what shld and shldn't be in it ;)
Shaunwilden 9:54 PM @sandymillin Oh helll yeah :-) #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:54 PM @Marisa_C  OK.  #eltchat
sandymillin 9:54 PM RT @Marisa_C:schools should design own and THEN look for mats to achieve objectives #Eltchat <great theory but v. time-consuming
cioccas 9:54 PM @parrpakala Good morning Jane - Happy Australia Day! #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 9:54 PM @DinaDobrou I wasnt aiming it at you i think is an issue in many PLS #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:54 PM @SueAnnan  #eltchat Ok - we don't actually not required on the celta
parrpakala 9:55 PM @cioccas Hi Lesley, Happy Australia  Day, remembering our indigenous ppl as always! #eltchat
bnleez 9:55 PM Learning rhizome, love it! RT @mscro1: RT @ShellTerrell: have students collaborate on the syllabus #ELTChat
sandymillin 9:55 PM RT @cioccas: @SueAnnan: #ELTchat But does CB restrict some novice Ts who think...need to follow it faithfully as syllabus? <yep
ShellTerrell 9:55 PM Anyone have any syllabus examples to share? #Eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 9:55 PM @sandymillin @Marisa_C I've started to collect some [which I replaced course book ones with] maybe in a few years I'll have a book! #eltchat
Marisa_C 9:55 PM @SueAnnan but we do a great mini one - actually published in MET yrs ago written by @Harmerj works well not too diff #eltchat
mscro1 9:55 PM Trying 2 catch up with U, talking about syllabus, is that like a curriculum? #ELTchat a little confused
DinaDobrou 9:55 PM RT @Marisa_C: Agree - in most schools CB  is the syllabus - schools should design own and THEN look for mats to achieve objectives #Eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:55 PM 5 mins left #eltchat
MarianSteiner 9:55 PM @ShellTerrell @esolcourses @cerirhiannon my internet connection's fine.. after evening conversation classes, it IS me who's slow! #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:56 PM @Marisa_C  Me not! #Eltchat
voxy 9:56 PM Essential Tech Skills Students NEED to know: http://t.co/yhOY4Zfr by @mr_levy1 #esl #efl #elt #eltchat #education #English
Marisa_C 9:56 PM @ShellTerrell I' ll upload some examples later and add links to anyone summary post - hint hint :-D Who is doing it?? #Eltchat
SueAnnan 9:56 PM @Marisa_C  Is it in his Practice of ELT? #eltchat
antoniaclare 9:56 PM @bnleez Yes, CEF has good criteria for assessment, but planning could/should be wider in appeal #eltchat
jankenb2 9:56 PM #eltchat What about the flipped classroom and emergence? Can ESL allow 4 open ended programming? How does structure channel meaningful L?
jankenb2 9:56 PM #eltchat What about the flipped classroom and emergence? Can ESL allow 4 open ended programming? How does structure channel meaningful L?
DinaDobrou 9:57 PM @Shaunwilden Yes, I heard many others share the same concerns which makes me both sad and relieved not to be the only one. :) #ELTchat
bnleez 9:57 PM Syllabus for a class, curriculum for an entire school program RT @mscro1: #ELTchat
Marisa_C 9:57 PM @Raquel_EFL Diagnose, prioritise, consult with the Ls (id adults) allow negotiation points, include evaluation #eltchat
shaznosel 9:57 PM @sandymillin Sad to say but usually T s with no training - I was one of them once -CB is The Bible..#eltchat
SueAnnan 9:57 PM @jankenb2  Council of Europe Framework #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:58 PM @jankenb2  http://t.co/JWSc9rCs #ELTchat
cioccas 9:58 PM @parrpakala @jankenb2 Hard for us non-Europeans on #ELTchat to keep up sometimes :-)
cerirhiannon 9:58 PM RT @Raquel_EFL: some syllabus design principles u might share with us? > comprehensive, achievable aims, not prescription of mats #eltchat
sandymillin 9:58 PM RT @shaznosel: @sandymillin Sad to say bt usully Ts with no training - I was one of them once -CB is The Bible..#eltchat <snap, but w/ celta
toulasklavou 9:58 PM i'm sorry my computer is getting really slow, trying to send you those appendices..#eltchat
web20education 9:58 PM #edtech20 post #mlearning in education using 5 #socialmedia #curation tools and apps http://t.co/HShQImMG #edchat #cpchat #ukedchat #eltchat
parrpakala 9:58 PM @jankenb2 yes I get stuck on acronyms here too! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 9:59 PM @AnnLoseva And its 2 nil to Barc #ELTchat
parrpakala 9:59 PM @cioccas agreed #eltchat
bnleez 9:59 PM Thanks all for a great chat! #eltchat
AnnLoseva 9:59 PM Barcelona-Real play during #ELTchat second time in a row) or is it the other way around?..
sandymillin 9:59 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat our Russian course is ...<i like learning like this, bt are you all teachers? think it's easier for us!
Shaunwilden 9:59 PM @parrpakala Ta do you have a link to info about it? #ELTchat
shaznosel 9:59 PM @sandymillin you got it..DELTA with Marissa...life saver! #eltchat
parrpakala 9:59 PM @Shaunwilden we go by the ISLPR here in Oz #eltchat
SueAnnan 9:59 PM sorry I need to duck out now. Fascinating discussion as usual. Got a ceilidh to do in Hotel next door :-) #ELTchat
jankenb2 10:00 PM #eltchat What I am reading...Complexity and the Culture of Curric. W Doll Educational Philosophy and Theory, V40, No. 1 2008 applies 2 ELL
cerirhiannon 10:00 PM RT @antoniaclare: I always ask myself - do the students really need to know this, is this language going to be useful to them? #eltchat  If no, take it out
Shaunwilden 10:00 PM Can we have a summary writer please? #ELTchat
theteacherjames 10:00 PM @AnnLoseva Me too! Barca are lucky... ;-) #ELTchat
antoniaclare 10:00 PM I always ask myself - do the students really need to know this, is this language going to be useful to them? #eltchat  If no, take it out
parrpakala 10:00 PM @Shaunwilden I''l have to get back to you on that, just woke up! #eltchat
cioccas 10:00 PM RT @parrpakala: @Shaunwilden we go by the ISLPR here in Oz #eltchat <Jane, maybe CSWE is a closer comparison to CEF - but I'm not sure
cerirhiannon 10:00 PM RT @AnnLoseva: Barcelona-Real play during #ELTchat second time in a row) or is it the other way around?.. > LOL! what's the score?
ShellTerrell 10:00 PM Thank you for another great #ELTChat & to my moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden Now must split being browbeaten by a hungry 11yr old
Marisa_C 10:01 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Can we have a summary writer please? #ELTchat > go on then you delters
jankenb2 10:01 PM #eltchat...goodnight.
shaznosel 10:01 PM @ShellTerrell Ah hunger - my 11 year old is fast asleep but 'm starving! night all! #eltchat
parrpakala 10:01 PM @Shaunwilden http://t.co/ei6NHaG8 #eltchat
esolcourses 10:01 PM Thanks for another great #ELTChat everyone, and to mods @ShellTerrell @Marisa_C & @Shaunwilden
Marisa_C 10:01 PM Thank you all and to @Shaunwilden and @ShellTerrell for moderation and you all for joining tonight - Syllabus Design Biiig topic #eltchat
sandymillin 10:01 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat tend to focus on language points not skills in Russian <did this in Czech. had natural skills prac all the time
cioccas 10:01 PM RT @ShellTerrell: Thank you for another great #ELTChat & to my moderators @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden < And more loud applause from Australia!
DinaDobrou 10:01 PM RT @antoniaclare: I always ask myself - do the students really need to know this, is this language going to be useful to them? #eltchat  If no, take it out
mscro1 10:02 PM @bnleez thx-, we do like genral syllabus with type of lessons but also exams included 4 a whole year, which is difficult sometimes! #ELTchat
DinaDobrou 10:02 PM RT @theteacherjames: Don't forget - the #ELTchat podcast for January is here! http://t.co/hTzhYSRm (iTunes link: http://t.co/g3VfqYDZ)
Marisa_C 10:02 PM @toulasklavou you want to write the summary maybe?  #eltchat
theteacherjames 10:02 PM Don't forget - the #ELTchat podcast for January is here! http://t.co/hTzhYSRm (iTunes link: http://t.co/g3VfqYDZ)
DinaDobrou 10:02 PM Thanks to everyone, participants and mods @ShellTerrell @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden. I missed chatting to u all. #ELTchat
antoniaclare 10:02 PM RT @esolcourses: Thanks for another great #ELTChat everyone, and to mods @ShellTerrell @Marisa_C & @Shaunwilden
toulasklavou 10:02 PM @Marisa_C You' ve got everything mow!cheers!#eltchat
Shaunwilden 10:02 PM January's #ELTchat podcast is now online. Listen and subscribe here: http://t.co/KrhbvNGs
sandymillin 10:02 PM @MrChrisJWilson #eltchat that's just it. if it's difficult for trained teachers to co-plan a syllabus when they are ss...#expectingalotofSS!
cioccas 10:02 PM #ELTchat Resource: Text-based Syllabus Design http://t.co/fT9cKIpK - Australian textbook - aging now, but good for beginning teachers
vickyloras 10:03 PM RT @theteacherjames: Don't forget - the #ELTchat podcast for January is here! http://t.co/hTzhYSRm (iTunes link: http://t.co/g3VfqYDZ)
DinaDobrou 10:03 PM RT @Shaunwilden: January's #ELTchat podcast is now online. Listen and subscribe here: http://t.co/KrhbvNGs
cerirhiannon 10:03 PM RT @esolcourses: Thanks for another great #ELTChat everyone, and to mods @ShellTerrell @Marisa_C & @Shaunwilden
shaznosel 10:03 PM @Marisa_C I can say I did it last week...ha ha ha ! #eltchat

 

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