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Your experience with needs analysis with adult learners in TEFL The ifs whys and hows

Page history last edited by Shaun 13 years, 5 months ago

This is the #eltchat from 18.01.2012 on Your experience with needs analysis with adult learners in TEFL. The ifs, whys and hows. 

 

username time status
Marisa_C 12:00 PM Welcome all to #ELTchat - for the next hour my tweets decicated to Needs Analysis Join us and tweet experiences and resources
Marisa_C 12:01 PM If you are new to #ELTchat ask me  @Shaunwilden or @barbsaka for help and remember to use the #ELTchat hashtag on all yr tweets!
SueAnnan 12:02 PM Do we all use needs analysis with adults? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:02 PM So all set for #ELTchat?
Shaunwilden 12:03 PM @SueAnnan at the last school i worked in we did in-company but not in-school  #eltchat
barbsaka 12:03 PM Don't know if we have any #2012evo guests in the house, but welcome to #eltchat if you're here :)
Marisa_C 12:03 PM RT @Shaunwilden: So should we do some sort of survey to find out what peoples needs are re needs?  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:03 PM So should we do some sort of survey to find out what peoples needs are re needs?  #eltchat
BobK99 12:04 PM RT @PatrickAndrews:... Prob the best article on needs analysis #eltchat!'This page belongs to a service that you are not authorised to use.
barbsaka 12:04 PM @UHGCareers Please stop spamming the #eltchat stream
Marisa_C 12:04 PM So NA seems to be used more for ESP  courses rather than scholl courses? #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: So should we do some sort of survey to find out what peoples needs are re needs?  #eltchat
jankenb2 12:04 PM #eltchat Great to be here. The discussion topic is creating a needs survey for our students?
SueAnnan 12:05 PM RT @Marisa_C: @PatrickAndrews very true - It's ok to do NA in L1 then  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:05 PM @PatrickAndrews very true - It's ok to do NA in L1 then  #eltchat
barbsaka 12:05 PM @Shaunwilden try blocking @YHGCareers and reporting as spam? #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:05 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @Shaunwilden Sometimes there are problems with surveys as people are not always linguistically aware of needs #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:05 PM @Shaunwilden Sometimes there are problems with surveys as people are not always linguistically aware of needs #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:05 PM RT @barbsaka: @UHGCareers Please stop spamming the #eltchat stream - hear hear cant get rid of the bloody thing
Marisa_C 12:06 PM @PatrickAndrews title and publication pls to R West article?  #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:06 PM @BobK99 Sorry - I have access to uni libraries.  Richard West article - it's very good.  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:07 PM @PatrickAndrews  Yes but you need somewhere to start #ELTchat
barbsaka 12:07 PM I do NA with conversation classes, too. Sometimes just the illusion of control :) #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:07 PM @SueAnnan @Marisa_C I suspect observation of needs is more useful than surveys  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:07 PM @jankenb2 Yes sort of  - Your experience with needs analysis with adult learners in TEFL. The ifs, whys and hows." #eltchat
esolcourses 12:08 PM @barbsaka @Shaunwilden FYI - @UHGCareers tweets are promoted tweets (i.e. they have paid to have them appear in #eltchat stream)
Marisa_C 12:08 PM @PatrickAndrews May well be true in some cases but NA makes Ss more aware that there are needs to be defined  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:08 PM RT @barbsaka: I do NA with conversation classes, too. Sometimes just the illusion of control :) #eltchat me too Barbara
rliberni 12:08 PM For the next hour my tweets are dedicated to #eltchat sorry bit late got held up
SueAnnan 12:09 PM @rliberni  sometimes they don't really know what they want #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:09 PM @rliberni remotely? Meaning you do via the web? #eltchat
rliberni 12:09 PM I tend to assess the needs (and wants ) of my stds remotely before they arrive so I can be ready - can be risky tho! #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:09 PM @esolcourses Oh that's why I can't rid of that stupid thing #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:10 PM @Marisa_C Yes, I think you are right  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:10 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @barbsaka: @esolcourses @Shaunwilden  Good way to get me to NEVER do business with @UHGCareers :) #eltchat
DebCapras 12:10 PM #teachingEnglish #eltchat NA in 1-to-1 always takes access/affinity to technology  as well as language needs. In advance email. Discuss f2f
BusSpot 12:10 PM #teachingEnglish #eltchat NA in 1-to-1 always takes access/affinity to technology  as well as language needs. In advance email. Discuss f2f
rliberni 12:10 PM @SueAnnan  I agree the problem with doing it at 1st lesson is you can't really prepare so need some idea & then confirm here #eltchat
barbsaka 12:10 PM @jankenb2 Needs Analysis #eltchat
esolcourses 12:10 PM RT @barbsaka: @esolcourses @Shaunwilden  Good way to get me to NEVER do business with @UHGCareers :) #eltchat
esolcourses 12:10 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C  not sure if you can delete promoted tweets, tbh - tho' from a marketing POV, seems like an own goal to me #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:10 PM @Marisa_C  #eltchat Language Learning 27 "Needs analysis in Language Teaching"
barbsaka 12:10 PM @esolcourses @Shaunwilden  Good way to get me to NEVER do business with @UHGCareers :) #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:11 PM RT @barbsaka: @UHGCareers Please stop spamming the #eltchat stream
barbsaka 12:11 PM @SueAnnan My students LOVE to be asked what they think they need to work on, but perception doesn't always match reality #eltchat
rliberni 12:11 PM @Shaunwilden  usually email or Skype plus email #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:11 PM RT @evanfrendo: #eltchat needs very different to wants
DebCapras 12:11 PM @SueAnnan  Hi ! #teachingEnglish #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:11 PM @BobK99 Oh thanks! I have it - :-)  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:11 PM @rliberni  yes but then they turn up and ask for something different #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:11 PM #eltchat needs very different to wants
Shaunwilden 12:11 PM @BusSpot Why 'always'? Surely it can be done f2f? #eltchat
rliberni 12:11 PM @SueAnnan  mine always do (not nec what they need) but he who pays the piper... #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:11 PM @DebCapras  Hi Deborah #teachingEnglish #eltchat
BobK99 12:11 PM RT @Marisa_C: @PatrickAndrews title and publication pls to R West article?  #eltchat! if it's any help - http://t.co/2Ef31ghT
esolcourses 12:12 PM RT @barbsaka @SueAnnan My students LOVE to be asked what they think they need to work on, but perception doesn't always match needs #eltchat
esolcourses 12:12 PM RT @barbsaka @SueAnnan My students LOVE to be asked what they think they need to work on, but perception doesn't always match needs #eltchat
DebCapras 12:12 PM @Shaunwilden  True - but I often send out  email NA in advance - gets students thinking - gives time to prepare #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:12 PM @barbsaka true Barbara - the spill effect of NA doesn't work on ALL ss #eltchat
esolcourses 12:12 PM RT @SueAnnan: @rliberni  sometimes they don't really know what they want #eltchat ] or sometimes they do, but you are not placed to offer it
SueAnnan 12:12 PM RT @evanfrendo: #eltchat needs very different to wants
evanfrendo 12:13 PM #eltchat needs involve other stakeholders too - eg course sponsors, department managers etc
yitzha_sarwono 12:13 PM RT @barbsaka: @SueAnnan My students LOVE to be asked what they think they need to work on, but perception doesn't always match reality #eltchat
juanalejandro26 12:13 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @barbsaka @SueAnnan My students LOVE to be asked what they think they need to work on, but perception doesn't always match needs #eltchat
jankenb2 12:13 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @esolcourses: RT @barbsaka: @esolcourses @Shaunwilden  Good way to get me to NEVER do business with @UHGCareers :) #eltchat
rliberni 12:13 PM @SueAnnan but at least they are committed to what they asked for to an extent #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:13 PM There are some formal ways of doing NA (e.g. Qaires etc) and some informal ones which every T can use - know of any? #eltchat
rliberni 12:13 PM @SueAnnan  then part of the NA has to be a 'contract'  it can change  #eltchat
rliberni 12:13 PM @SueAnnan  then part of the NA has to be a 'contract'  it can change  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:13 PM RT @esolcourses:sometimes they dont rlly know wht they wnt #eltchat ] or sometimes they do, but U R not placed 2 offer it. Yes gd point
SueAnnan 12:13 PM RT @esolcourses:sometimes they dont rlly know wht they wnt #eltchat ] or sometimes they do, but U R not placed 2 offer it. Yes gd point
barbsaka 12:14 PM RT @michaelegriffin: From my view there is an element of learner learning (training) in helping Ss see what their needs really are. #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:14 PM @barbsaka that's very interesting!!! wow  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:14 PM @evanfrendo True re stakeholders but often they don't actually agree as to what the needs are #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:14 PM @barbsaka @SueAnnan From my view there is an element of learner learning (training) in helping Ss see what their needs really are. #eltchat
barbsaka 12:14 PM Interestingly, my older kids' classes have a better grasp of their actual "needs" than my adults :) #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:14 PM @SueAnnan @evanfrendo also should not be limited by current needs - should think of potential needs (eg if get a better job)  #eltchat
rliberni 12:14 PM @esolcourses  I find they want sthing & you compromise then demonstrate & work on what they need too - it becomes obvious #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:14 PM RT @evanfrendo: needs involve other stakeholders too - eg course sponsors, department managers etc #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:14 PM @DebCapras @DebCapras It's a good idea was just contemplating how this fits in with the way a language school works #eltchat
DebCapras 12:15 PM @evanfrendo depends who paying as well #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:15 PM @michaelegriffin Fully agree about the learner training value of needs analysis  #eltchat
SaeedMobarak 12:15 PM For adult learners I prefer giving students attempt to use English before they have mastered it.#eltchat
rliberni 12:15 PM @barbsaka  adults can be unrealistic about what they want s'times #eltchat kids go with the flow IME #eltchat
rliberni 12:16 PM @barbsaka  I agree a lot is about learner training but they(adults) will only want to pay for what they  want initially #eltchat
barbsaka 12:16 PM @rliberni I think so. Adults: I want to be able to listen to movies (can't understand my normal speaking voice) #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:16 PM #eltchat if we take ELF into account, NA is all about understanding the future context  / analysing specific discourse patterns & language
esolcourses 12:16 PM IMO, it's important to focus on learner needs rather than course/org requirements - otherwise, little (if any) point to doing them #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:17 PM RT @jankenb2: So producing the right kinds of ?s for the NA is impt.> I agree. But one size doesn't fit all #ELTchat
rliberni 12:17 PM @barbsaka  I think you can help them achieve this and the training part is for them to see the gap that has to be bridged #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:17 PM @DebCapras :-) always #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:17 PM @evanfrendo Agree it is important to think of future as well as present  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:17 PM @SaeedMobarak Agreed and the NA is a way for them to show this #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:17 PM Learning preferences - should they go into an NA questionnaire? #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:17 PM @barbsaka I also sometimes think of NA as menu of possible things that we could work on n have SS choose/select/rank possibilities @ELTchat
SaeedMobarak 12:17 PM Adult learners needs more chance than others to attempt using English#eltchat
esolcourses 12:17 PM @rliberni yes, agree that usually happens, in most cases #eltchat
barbsaka 12:17 PM @rliberni Kids: I need to work on my writing, or I need to practice spelling :) #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:18 PM I also think you have to revisit the NA later in the course to see if needs have changed#ELTchat
esolcourses 12:18 PM RT @Marisa_C: Learning preferences - should they go into an NA questionnaire? #eltchat ] not essential IMO, but could prove useful/helpful
barbsaka 12:18 PM @michaelegriffin Agreed. I always tell students that we can practice skills in any context #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:19 PM @rliberni  we do to, but it doesn't test speaking and writing, so it falls down if that's what they need #eltchat
jankenb2 12:19 PM @michaelegriffin  @SueAnnan #eltchat  A NA is will lead to a instructional framework. So producing the right kinds of ?s for the NA is impt.
rliberni 12:19 PM @SueAnnan I use a v simple grammar/vocab test that is v accurate on gen level  so a good guide but there's' always more! #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:19 PM RT @SueAnnan: I also think you have to revisit the NA later in the course to see if needs have changed#ELTchat > stocktaking pts
Shaunwilden 12:19 PM So are there certain questions that HAVE to be in NA? #eltchat
rliberni 12:20 PM @jankenb2  my NA is simply to identify where a std is and create a programme to get them to where they have to be #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:20 PM RT @evanfrendo: 1 problem is that few teachers have evr studied discourse analysis , so how cn they analyse future language needs? #eltchat
SaeedMobarak 12:20 PM @Shaunwilden I prefer to give adult learners chance to choose the topics they like to learn #eltchat
barbsaka 12:20 PM How would you set up a NA to produce the right sort of framework? @jankenb2 ? #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:20 PM one problem is that few teachers have ever studied discourse analysis , so how can they analyse future language needs? #eltchat
jankenb2 12:20 PM @barbsaka #eltchat we are using NA in a very loose way. A NA for a uni or NA for a cert to get job, or NA to meet state/gov standards?
Shaunwilden 12:21 PM RT @barbsaka: How would you set up a NA to produce the right sort of framework? @jankenb2 ? #eltchat
rliberni 12:21 PM @jankenb2  s'times it will involve a company but mostly it's personal #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:21 PM RT @evanfrendo: 1 problem is that few teachers have sttudied discourse analysis , so how can they analyse future language needs? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:22 PM @SueAnnan @Marisa_C  M3 of the delta pretty much forces you to create a NA #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:22 PM @SueAnnan we do cover discourse - one of the lan systems assignment  #eltchat
jankenb2 12:22 PM @SueAnnan @evanfrendo #eltchat to replace discourse analysis use scenario and challenge them with novel language use.
rliberni 12:22 PM @SueAnnan  I have this too I use Skype a bit and have a writing assessment but they never do it! #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:22 PM @evanfrendo good point abt discourse - absent from most Tefl progs - only at DELTA level  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:22 PM @Marisa_C good reason for Discourse Anal on the DELTA/DipTESOL programmes? #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:23 PM oh great they re gone! #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:23 PM @jankenb2 can u clarify scenario? #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:23 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @SueAnnan @Marisa_C  M3 of the delta pretty much forces you to create a NA #eltchat > yes now and pre modular roo
SueAnnan 12:23 PM @Shaunwilden  So does the CertIBET #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:23 PM @rliberni  Can get them to tell you about themselves I suppose #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:24 PM @rliberni Yes I had 2 beginners whose daughter did theirs. It was very useful #eltchat
jankenb2 12:24 PM @Marisa_C @evanfrendo RE: DAnal #eltchat  C (2009) Jonassen on how post sec ed should structure lessons in argumentation. It w/apply in #elt
rliberni 12:24 PM Once had a std (pre-Inter) get his wife (adv) to do assessmnt  & prepared an advanced programme on the strength of it ! #eltchat
jankenb2 12:25 PM @evanfrendo #eltchat case-based learning using problems they select or define. Similar to PBL but enhanced to elicit more complex language.
SueAnnan 12:25 PM @rliberni  great. I have such a mix of students it's not as easy #eltchat
rliberni 12:25 PM @SueAnnan  on face to face most come to improve fluency so speaking is central anyway #eltchat
barbsaka 12:25 PM @jankenb2 makes a good point re different types of NA--formal (help get Ss to meet standards) and informal (help direct class) #eltchat
rliberni 12:25 PM @SueAnnan  at pres I'm doing some IELTS so can actually make this more structured #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:25 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat I think getting to know you0type activities can be great informal NA in early stages of a course. Lots of info to collect
BobK99 12:25 PM @Marisa_C  #eltchat - Not for me ;-(
rliberni 12:26 PM RT @barbsaka: Which type of NA do you use in your classes? Does you work within a set framework, or do you use it to create your syllabus? #eltchat
barbsaka 12:26 PM Which type of NA do you use in your classes? Does you work within a set framework, or do you use it to create your syllabus? #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:26 PM @jankenb2  that would depend on level of sts #eltchat
rliberni 12:26 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @michaelegriffin: #eltchat I think getting to no u type activities can be great informal NA in early stages of a course.
rliberni 12:26 PM @SueAnnan  mine mostly 1:1 or max of 6 #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:26 PM RT @michaelegriffin: #eltchat I think getting to no u type activities can be great informal NA in early stages of a course.
_Heather_Taylor 12:27 PM RT @VAMCE2010: New Post: English Apps for Middle School by @ShireenRichards http://t.co/wylcDMam #tlchat #slide2learn #engchat #eltchat #ipadapp
sergiopantojajr 12:27 PM RT @SchoolOfEnglish: Great collection of pages on English idioms http://t.co/RC6FtFR7 #engchat #eltchat #esl via @cybraryman1
evanfrendo 12:27 PM @jankenb2 ok I think i use "simulation" to describe this  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:27 PM I put them in the global filter on tweetdeck and they are gone #ELTchat
rliberni 12:27 PM @barbsaka  I do the latter #eltchat
esolcourses 12:27 PM RT @UHGCareers #GreaterConnections Chat is 11AM CST today. Can’t wait to meet u & answer questions ] Look 4ward to it  ;-) 5pm GMT #eltchat
rliberni 12:28 PM RT @evanfrendo: here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/kD3LoGTJ  #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:28 PM here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/kD3LoGTJ  #eltchat
_Heather_Taylor 12:28 PM English Apps for Middle School by @ShireenRichards http://t.co/5Wb8e3rK #tlchat #slide2learn #engchat #eltchat #ipadapp†@myen
Marisa_C 12:28 PM RT @michaelegriffin  #eltchat getting to know you0type activities can be great informal NA in early stages of a course. Lots of info
jankenb2 12:29 PM @barbsaka I teach 2 classes, Acad English 4 a private language school and 2nd w/com devt agency for B Eng dif contexst = dif NA's. #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:29 PM RT @evanfrendo: here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/vYW7Opab  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:29 PM RT @evanfrendo: here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/7UOpABGC  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:29 PM RT @Marisa_C: I put them in the global filter on tweetdeck and they are gone #ELTchat - Yay tht worked
SueAnnan 12:30 PM with classes we need more negotiated syllabus, as everyone thinks they need diff. things#ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:30 PM @jankenb2 so your NA focuses mainly on EAP stuff or do u include other Qs as well  #eltchat
esolcourses 12:30 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @evanfrendo: here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/B06ixq1l  #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:31 PM @rliberni compromise :-) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:31 PM RT @rliberni: What happens when the needs of sts  are not the needs of the employer - any suggestions? #eltchat This is quite a common issue
PatrickAndrews 12:31 PM @evanfrendo Great tools - I think shadowing could be particularly fruitful  #eltchat
rliberni 12:31 PM What happens when the needs of stds  are not the needs of the employer - any suggestions? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:31 PM RT @SueAnnan: with classes we need more negotiated syllabus, as everyone thinks they need diff. things#ELTchat
PatrickAndrews 12:32 PM @rliberni Interesting question.  We might teach needs that lead to them getting better job elsewhere  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:32 PM RT @evanfrendo: @rliberni compromise :-) Yes compromise, the sts usually understands #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:32 PM @theteacherjames  yes, that's quite common #ELTchat
juanalejandro26 12:32 PM ESP?? RT @rliberni: What happens when the needs of stds  are not the needs of the employer - any suggestions? #eltchat
barbsaka 12:32 PM @jankenb2 NA would be very important for you then, right? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:32 PM @SueAnnan I had some trouble with neg. syllabus. "You're the teacher, tell us what to do!" Had to explain, "sorry, not my style!" #ELTchat
rliberni 12:32 PM @evanfrendo  can you give examples? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:33 PM RT @michaelegriffin: #ELTchat I made up a "comfort survey" for NA for a few years/jobs ago. Here it is http://t.co/caIcgDOf
rliberni 12:33 PM @Marisa_C   had 1 clash where the boss wanted the std to do one thing, she wanted another & neither were possible language-wise #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:33 PM @rliberni explain to all stakeholders the different perspectives, invite sponsors to observe class, get all to agree on priorities #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:33 PM @rliberni I'd try to find the middle way, tick some of the employers boxes but mainly concentrate on the st. #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:33 PM #ELTchat I made up a "comfort survey" for NA for a few years/jobs ago. Here it is https://t.co/qeQM9ERP
jankenb2 12:34 PM @Shaunwilden @rliberni #eltchat What % of syll do the Ss own? Is t/room for student input in an auth way? eg grading, projs, coll or grp wk?
Marisa_C 12:34 PM @michaelegriffin comfort survey looks like your syllabus - cld be used as a Self assessment tool at end of course #ELTchat
evanfrendo 12:34 PM important to remember that the teacher is also one of the stakeholders #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:34 PM @juanalejandro26 So how do you find out what they need to learn? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:34 PM RT @michaelegriffin: #ELTchat I made up a "comfort survey" for NA for a few years/jobs ago. Here it is http://t.co/TWQbfGKr
rliberni 12:34 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @rliberni Interesting question.  We might teach needs that lead to them getting better job elsewhere  #eltchat
barbsaka 12:34 PM @evanfrendo True that needs/wants are different, but many private language students don't differentiate #eltchat
juanalejandro26 12:34 PM I teach English for Specific Purposes (ESP) and depending on the area, they will learn what they need #ELTChat
juanalejandro26 12:35 PM @Shaunwilden well, in my case it's a university and they study basic English first. and the last 2 levels we teach them vocabulary #ELTchat
rliberni 12:35 PM RT @evanfrendo: important to remember that the teacher is also one of the stakeholders #eltchat Good point!
Shaunwilden 12:35 PM @jankenb2 @rliberni I think it depends on context for example in a Private LS probably little #ELTchat
BobK99 12:35 PM RT @SueAnnan: ... more negotiated syllabus, as everyone thinks they need diff. things#ELTchat! I try to do just that - mixed success tho'
esolcourses 12:36 PM RT @Marisa_C RT @rliberni What happens when the needs of stds  are not the needs of the employer - any suggestions? #eltchat > go undercover
michaelegriffin 12:36 PM RT @Marisa_C comfort survey looks like your syllabus-cld be used as a Self assessment tool at end of course #ELTchat >nice!did revisit a bit
rliberni 12:36 PM RT @theteacherjames: This book has an excellent chapter on needs analysis: http://t.co/fFsoSJCV #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:36 PM This book has an excellent chapter on needs analysis: http://t.co/fFsoSJCV #eltchat
juanalejandro26 12:36 PM @Shaunwilden if it's engineering, then the vocabulary will be on that area, for instance #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:36 PM @BobK99  yes sometimes a framework to negotiate from- helps the weaker ones #ELTchat
fionamau 12:37 PM #eltchat Hi all! Just in the door. What's  the topic? The Lingua Franca one?
esolcourses 12:37 PM RT @Marisa_C RT @rliberni can be a problem when courses are funding driven, rather than driven by learner demand/needs... #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:37 PM RT @michaelegriffin: RT @Marisa_C comfort survey looks like your syllabus-cld be used as a Self assessment tool at end of course #ELTchat >nice!did revisit a bit
Shaunwilden 12:37 PM @juanalejandro26 Fair enough but isnt that a case of the uni assuming their needs? #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:37 PM RT @theteacherjames: This book has an excellent chapter on needs analysis: http://t.co/fzbZtDol #eltchat> Oh yes
evanfrendo 12:37 PM At the moment I am working with Germans who need to use Eng in China - most of my NA is about how to understand Chinglish! #eltchat
fionamau 12:38 PM @Shaunwilden Ah, ok - will lurk until I can catch up. Anyone else got some add at the top of the #eltchat stream? V annoying!
PatrickAndrews 12:38 PM @SueAnnan Yes, but would they always know?  Would they really want to say we want to keep our employees down?  Don't know.  #eltchat
BusSpot 12:38 PM RT @evanfrendo: one problem - few teachers have ever studied discourse analysis ,so how can they analyse future language needs? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:38 PM @fionamau Nah its needs anaylsis #ELTchat
juanalejandro26 12:38 PM what we try to do is having ss who can handle real situations. So it's not only vocabulary, but how to use it in real life #ELTChat
SueAnnan 12:38 PM RT @evanfrendo: At the moment i'm wrkn w/ Germans who need 2 use Eng in China - most of my NA is abt how 2 understand Chinglish! #eltchat
juanalejandro26 12:39 PM @Shaunwilden yes, indeed. but it was created for the first English teachers there. they studied students needs #ELTchat
barbsaka 12:39 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @fionamau Yes we found that if you put it into the tweetdeck global filter it goes #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:39 PM @fionamau Yes we found that if you put it into the tweetdeck global filter it goes #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:39 PM @fionamau block user name in your tweetdeck global filter  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:39 PM @PatrickAndrews  Why are you presuming that they want to keep them down?  #eltchat
jankenb2 12:39 PM @rliberni @evanfrendo #eltchat When it comes to NA how much tacit knowledge of teaching is needed vs knowing stu pop, abil and their envron?
evanfrendo 12:41 PM RT @Marisa_C: OK can we move #ELTchat on a bit? Once you have your results what do you do with them? Do all Ts have syllabus design skills?
SaeedMobarak 12:41 PM Actually students like to learn what helps them in future in general.do you agree with me #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:41 PM RT @Marisa_C: OK can we move #ELTchat on a bit? Once you have your results what do you do with them? Do all Ts have syllabus design skills?
barbsaka 12:41 PM RT @Marisa_C: OK can we move #ELTchat on a bit? Once you have your results what do you do with them? Do all Ts have syllabus design skills?
Marisa_C 12:41 PM OK can we move #ELTchat on a bit? Once you have your results what do you do with them? Do all Ts have syllabus design skills?
BusSpot 12:41 PM RT @evanfrendo: here's a list of needs analysis tools I blogged about almost two years ago http://t.co/Isczyfmu  #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:41 PM @SueAnnan I am not assuming that.  The question seemed to assume it.  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:42 PM @BobK99 Use the global filter in the settings of tweetdeck #ELTchat
barbsaka 12:42 PM I try to give students what they really need in the context of what they think they need/want #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:42 PM I design a syllabus and then take it back to the student for modification or agreement#ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:42 PM @SaeedMobarak Doesnt they presume they know what they will need i nthe future :-) #ELTchat
BobK99 12:42 PM @fionamau  #eltchat Yes. I've tried blocking it - and even deleting the column/starting a fresh one. No dice :-(
web20education 12:42 PM Top 10 #socialmedia #curation tools who will change research in #education20 http://t.co/F3CfAE7z #elearning #edchat #ukedchat #eltchat #elt
rliberni 12:43 PM RT @evanfrendo: RT @SueAnnan: I design a syllabus and then take it back to the student for modification or agreement#ELTchat Me too!
Marisa_C 12:43 PM RT @evanfrendo: RT @SueAnnan: I design a syllabus and then take it back to the student for modification or agreement#ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:43 PM @Shaunwilden  all #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:43 PM @SueAnnan Is this for classes or 1-2-1 or both? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:43 PM @esolcourses  good point sometimes there isn't room to manoeuvre #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:43 PM RT @SueAnnan: I design a syllabus and then take it back to the student for modification or agreement#ELTchat
barbsaka 12:44 PM @michaelegriffin thanks! #ELTchat
michaelegriffin 12:44 PM a book i strongly recommend for syllabus design (also with a great NA chapter!) is http://t.co/69GicsUd #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:44 PM @rliberni  Yes, even we get it wrong sometimes. It's always good to check #ELTchat
web20education 12:44 PM RT @barbsaka: I try to give students what they really need in the context of what they think they need/want  #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:45 PM @Marisa_C I had to teach myself! Nowadays I do an overall course outline & create lesson ideas as the course goes along. #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:45 PM RT @barbsaka: I try to give students what they really need in the context of what they think they need/want #eltchat ] same here
SueAnnan 12:45 PM RT @evanfrendo: worst thing is having to go firm on a syllabus before meeting the Ss #eltchat
rliberni 12:45 PM RT @michaelegriffin: a book i strongly recommend for syllabus design (also with a great NA chapter!) is http://t.co/69GicsUd #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:45 PM @rliberni  good point Berni #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:45 PM worst thing is having to go firm on a syllabus before meeting the Ss #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:45 PM RT @michaelegriffin: a book i strongly recommend for syllabus design (also with a great NA chapter!) is http://t.co/ABemw8I7 #ELTchat
juanalejandro26 12:45 PM RT @michaelegriffin: a book i strongly recommend for syllabus design (also with a great NA chapter!) is http://t.co/69GicsUd #ELTchat
rliberni 12:45 PM @SueAnnan  this can also act as the safeguard we mentioned earlier i they have agreed then later changes must be negotiated #eltchat
esolcourses 12:46 PM RT @SueAnnan: RT @evanfrendo: worst thing is having to go firm on a syllabus before meeting the Ss #eltchat ] agree absolutely
theteacherjames 12:46 PM @Shaunwilden You stop it now! #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:46 PM @theteacherjames What you mean you design a course outline - you don't allow a course to just emerge ;-) #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:46 PM RT @Marisa_C: OK can we move #ELTchat on a bit? Once you have your results what do you do with them? Do all Ts have syllabus design skills?
jankenb2 12:46 PM @TweetDeck block UHCareers. They are spamming #eltchat. Thank you.
SueAnnan 12:46 PM @evanfrendo  could you give a provisional syllabus instead? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:46 PM @jankenb2  true but if you have no idea at all about the std then a good NA is necessary #eltchat
esolcourses 12:47 PM @SueAnnan: RT @evanfrendo if people ask me to devise a syllabus pre-course I say no, and explain why #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:47 PM @Marisa_C I'd be interested to see that. #ELTchat
SaeedMobarak 12:47 PM @Shaunwilden because studets presume that they kow what will help them.So we have to design for them what they want #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:47 PM @theteacherjames I have some great syllabus samples from their case study assignments  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:47 PM @theteacherjames WHAT! i asked a genuine question ;-) #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:47 PM @theteacherjames I'll try to pu up a couple of DELTA projects (pre modular) useful for 1-2-1 Ts (need to check with cands first)  #ELTchat
barbsaka 12:48 PM fyi tweetdeck is freezing up on me (or you're all being really quiet) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:48 PM @Marisa_C Oh no a mod has just told me off, I know there is an issue of censorship on the 'net 2day  but never thought it'd come to #ELTchat
rliberni 12:48 PM RT @DebCapras: Design a flexible syllabus and revisit NA regularly - make sure you're on track. Regular feedback - not just at end. #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:48 PM RT @DebCapras: Design a flexible syllabus and revisit NA regularly - make sure you're on track. Regular feedback - not just at end. #eltchat
DebCapras 12:48 PM Design a flexible syllabus and revisit NA regularly - make sure you're on track. Regular feedback - not just at end. #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:49 PM @Shaunwilden :-D #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:49 PM RT @evanfrendo: @SueAnnan yes, provisional is always good, but some sponsors don't like it #eltchat that's a difficult one to overcome
evanfrendo 12:49 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @theteacherjames What you mean you design a course outline - you don't allow a course to just emerge ;-) #ELTchat lol
BobK99 12:50 PM @barbsaka  #eltchat #eltchat Stick around! - Mine unfroze after a few mins
Shaunwilden 12:50 PM @esolcourses @SueAnnan @evanfrendo But doesnt this merely act as an example to show what you can do? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:50 PM @Shaunwilden  I guess you deserved it :-) #eltchat
rliberni 12:51 PM RT @Marisa_C: To recap: to do a proper NA what knowledge and skills do Ts need? #ELTchat
jankenb2 12:51 PM @esolcourses @Marisa_C #eltchat NA is 2 group Ss in levels- vertically or horiz ability. Its data. I can quickly org grps according 2 task
Marisa_C 12:51 PM To recap: to do a proper NA what knowledge and skills do Ts need? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:51 PM RT @SueAnnan: Do you often find that students want to change their needs in the middle of the course? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:51 PM Do you often find that students want to change their needs in the middle of the course? #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM @evanfrendo Yes I agree, def not set in stone but examples etc etc are good #ELTchat
evanfrendo 12:52 PM has anyone been involved in critical NA? eltchat
rliberni 12:52 PM I think you need the ability to take a snap shot as a starting point #eltchat
jankenb2 12:52 PM @SueAnnan #eltchat Ss changing needs in middle of course is called insight!
DebCapras 12:52 PM @SueAnnan Can happen - after promotion, new project, new responsibilities - or worse - new boss... #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM RT @SueAnnan: Do u find that students want to change their needs in the middle of the course? #ELTchat it can def happen, change of job etc
evanfrendo 12:52 PM @Shaunwilden my solution where the sponsor insists on a syllabus beforehand is to make it as vague as possible #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:52 PM I always tell my trainees that FLEXIBle will be their middle name #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:53 PM @evanfrendo  can you elaborate please? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:53 PM @Marisa_C Awareness of different learning styles is very useful. #ELTchat
evanfrendo 12:53 PM has anyone been involved in critical NA? #eltchat
DebCapras 12:53 PM RT @evanfrendo: @Shaunwilden make it as vague as possible  - true - and adapt once you meet the Ss #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:53 PM @jankenb2  LOL #eltchat
rliberni 12:53 PM RT @jankenb2: @SueAnnan #eltchat Ss changing needs in middle of course is called insight!
theteacherjames 12:53 PM @SueAnnan I do. I think this mainly comes from their expectations changing as the course goes on rather than other factors. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:54 PM RT @evanfrendo: critical needs analysis http://t.co/6K8h0KfE #eltchat
SaeedMobarak 12:54 PM @SueAnnan flixibaity in any course lessons is very important #eltchat
Edu_Trends 12:54 PM I think you need the ability to take a snap shot as a starting point #eltchat http://t.co/QJduEVBY
SueAnnan 12:54 PM @evanfrendo  Cheers Evan #eltchat
rliberni 12:54 PM RT @evanfrendo: critical needs analysis http://t.co/ZaIH4jxQ #eltchat
evanfrendo 12:54 PM critical needs analysis http://t.co/ZaIH4jxQ #eltchat
rliberni 12:54 PM @theteacherjames @SueAnnan  and also finding out more about what they don't know or are not able to do #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:54 PM @evanfrendo well I supervise a lot of assignments which include it  #eltchat
leoselivan 12:55 PM needs analysis for Bus Eng http://t.co/28MwUaMC #ELTchat
theteacherjames 12:55 PM RT @rliberni: @theteacherjames @SueAnnan  and also finding out more about what they don't know or are not able to do #eltchat
SaeedMobarak 12:55 PM @esolcourses @SueAnnan @evanfrendo Why you don't prefer to devise pre-course? #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:55 PM RT @rliberni: @theteacherjames @SueAnnan  and also finding out more about what they don't know or are not able to do #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:55 PM RT @theteacherjames: @Marisa_C Awareness of different learning styles is very useful. #ELTchat
ElizabethSACLI 12:56 PM RT @Marisa_C: And a short srticle by Alex Case on Needs Analysis http://t.co/LaKDhcml #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:56 PM @michaelegriffin @SueAnnan Yes me too  esp in a year long course though a lot new teachers fail to realize this #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:56 PM RT @Marisa_C: What about test design and syllabus design skills? #ELTchat very important!
SueAnnan 12:56 PM @michaelegriffin  I suppose it depends on the length of their course though #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:56 PM What about test design and syllabus design skills? #ELTchat
evanfrendo 12:56 PM @SaeedMobarak i would like to be able to adjust syllabus once I meet the Ss #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:56 PM @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan #ELTchat I'd be shocked if Ss needs and their perceptions of them didnt change
theteacherjames 12:57 PM @Marisa_C Seems like test design is a very neglected area in training to me, but you'll have more idea about that than me.  #ELTchat
jankenb2 12:57 PM @Marisa_C #eltchat NA constrct rqs knowldge content, w/qual and quant meas, wrting objectives, Bloom's or sim taxonomy, Ss environ, stndrds
esolcourses 12:57 PM @SueAnnan @evanfrendo depends how U approach it, perhaps? Did them when I was a NT, but not these days... pointless/twice the work! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:57 PM @Marisa_C what about it?  #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:58 PM RT @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan @evanfrendo yes, it acts an example to show what you can do, but not a good use of t's time, IMO #ELTchat
rliberni 12:58 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @theteacherjames: @Marisa_C Awareness of different learning styles is very useful. #ELTchat
SueAnnan 12:58 PM So what is the conclusion? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:58 PM RT @leoselivan: needs analysis for Bus Eng http://t.co/28MwUaMC #ELTchat
rliberni 12:58 PM RT @SueAnnan: RT @Marisa_C: What about test design and syllabus design skills? #ELTchat very important!
SueAnnan 12:59 PM @Shaunwilden  Yes I think so #ELTchat
michaelegriffin 12:59 PM RT @SueAnnan @michaelegriffin I suppose it depends on the length of their course though #ELTchat >> good point
Marisa_C 12:59 PM Can't Rt you for some reason but agree @jankenb2  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:59 PM @SueAnnan Do the NA to aid the syllabus design? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 1:00 PM RT @jankenb2 #eltchat NA cnstrct rqs knwldge contnt, w/qual & quant meas, wrtng objctives, Blm's or sim taxonmy, Ss envirn, stndrds
Shaunwilden 1:00 PM Tonight's #eltchat is Describe the advantages and disadvantages of Social Networks for language teachers.
rliberni 1:00 PM RT @theteacherjames: Whatever the result of NA is, we shouldn't underestimate the effect of simply asking the sts what they want. It's all too rare. #eltchat
rliberni 1:00 PM OK must dash thanks everyone for another fab #eltchat also to gr8 co-mods  @Marisa_C  @Shaunwilden & @barbsaka  no NA's needed! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:00 PM Ok so who is going to write the summary? #ELTchat
theteacherjames 1:00 PM Whatever the result of NA is, we shouldn't underestimate the effect of simply asking the sts what they want. It's all too rare. #eltchat
Marisa_C 1:01 PM tweetedck gone mad #ELTChat
rliberni 1:01 PM RT @esolcourses: @theteacherjames @Marisa_C  agree test design seems to be a neglected area in training.  Shouldn't assume all t's know how do it #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:01 PM @esolcourses @theteacherjames @Marisa_C Sounds like a topic for a future #eltchat
DebCapras 1:01 PM @Shaunwilden NA to personalize an "off-the-shelf-company-driven" course #ELTchat
jankenb2 1:01 PM @theteacherjames  #eltchat Test design is/n as critical as dev  effective obj & assess instrs. When assess skills are high, NA skills R 2.
rliberni 1:01 PM @theteacherjames  I absolutely agree with this James what we feel they need may not all be relevant to them #eltchat
esolcourses 1:01 PM @theteacherjames @Marisa_C  agree test design seems to be a neglected area in training.  Shouldn't assume all t's know how do it #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:02 PM @esolcourses @theteacherjames @Marisa_C Someone add it to the blog for next week ;-) #eltchat
esolcourses 1:02 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is Describe the advantages and disadvantages of Social Networks for language teachers.
esolcourses 1:02 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @esolcourses @theteacherjames @Marisa_C Sounds like a topic for a future #eltchat ] and a good one, at that!
evanfrendo 1:02 PM RT @Marisa_C: tweetedck gone mad #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 1:02 PM RT @DebCapras: @Shaunwilden NA to personalize an "off-the-shelf-company-driven" course #ELTchat
Marisa_C 1:03 PM do we have a summary writer? #eltchat
fionamau 1:03 PM @BobK99 #eltchat Same here- What's more, the whole thing crashed - couldn't get anything at all to work! So I gave up - I'll try the evening
esolcourses 1:03 PM @Shaunwilden will try and remember... am actually working on a talk atm on similar lines, as it happens :-) #eltchat #syncronicity
DebCapras 1:03 PM Thanks everyone - got to dash  #eltchat
SueAnnan 1:03 PM Thanks as always go to the great moderators, But wouldn't be a good#ELTchat without all great participant points of view. Thanks everyone
Marisa_C 1:04 PM Cheers @evanfrendo  #eltchat thx for joining
SueAnnan 1:04 PM RT @Marisa_C: do we have a summary writer? #eltchat I suppose I could do it. Back to work next week and will have no time then:-(
Shaunwilden 1:04 PM RT @Marisa_C: do we have a summary writer? #eltchat
esolcourses 1:04 PM Thanks for another great #eltchat, everyone, and to today's moderators @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C & @rliberni - catch you all later!
theteacherjames 1:04 PM @Shaunwilden @esolcourses @Marisa_C Let's try and remember between us! #eltchat
SueAnnan 1:05 PM @jankenb2  Nice to meet you :-) #eltchat
esolcourses 1:05 PM @UHGCareers My question 4 U is what made U think it would be appropriate to target #eltchat with an ad for your chat? #GreaterConnections
jankenb2 1:05 PM @esolcourses @Shaunwilden #eltchat Have fun tonight, 4 me it/w B REM zone time. I'll look for the transcripts. Been a fun one...my 1st. Caoi
StudyAbroadCan 1:05 PM RT @Marisa_C: And a short srticle by Alex Case on Needs Analysis http://t.co/LaKDhcml #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 1:06 PM @jankenb2  Good to meet you, hope to see you in a future #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:07 PM @SueAnnan @Marisa_C I'll get onto the transcript in a few mins, sandwich first #eltchat
esolcourses 1:07 PM RT @theteacherjames: @Shaunwilden @esolcourses @Marisa_C Let's try and remember between us! #eltchat ] sounds like a plan :-)
rliberni 1:08 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is Describe the advantages and disadvantages of Social Networks for language teachers.
SueAnnan 1:08 PM @Shaunwilden  NO rush #eltchat
Marisa_C 1:10 PM Thank you all for joining today and for a great conversation - see you later for #ELTchat No 2!
michaelegriffin 1:10 PM thoroughly enjoyed #eltchat. Thanks!

 

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