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Using corpora in our teaching what is available and how can we best use it

Page history last edited by Shaun 12 years, 6 months ago

This is the transcript from 14.11.2011 on Using corpora in our teaching: what is available and how can we best use it? 

 

username time status
alastairjgrant 12:02 PM I spoke to soon but... this corpus http://t.co/jszQqiMT v v useful for SS to get words from context #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:02 PM @SueAnnan Hang on its midday what you doing here :-) #eltchat Good to see you
Marisa_C 12:02 PM @SueAnnan Hi Sue nice to see you #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:02 PM hello #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:03 PM Just say yes if from the US and you voted on this topic #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:03 PM @Shaunwilden  on holiday now :-) #eltchat
MrWriteCzech 12:03 PM @Shaunwilden James Thomas (in Brno) mentioned the New Model Corpus but I can't find it on the internet. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:03 PM Anyone here from the US voters who suddenly decided corpora was the thing for today? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:04 PM @MrWriteCzech Arh yes, James is a tad obsessed by them , hang on his colleague sent me some links  may be it is one of those #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:04 PM @yearinthelifeof He he - do they show on the US map on twtpoll? #ELTChat
cybraryman1 12:04 PM It's time for #ELTchat  NOW 7 am EST Topic Using corpora in our teaching: what is available and how can we best use it?
yearinthelifeof 12:04 PM @Marisa_C How about the Canadians? #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:04 PM Hi all, sorry a bit late  #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:04 PM Gonna grab a sandwich and then will join y'all for #ELTCHAT
harrisonmike 12:04 PM RT @Marisa_C: Anyone here from the US voters who suddenly decided corpora was the thing for today? #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:05 PM #eltchat RT @harrisonmike: Big bonus re corpora is there are lots of webby, easy to access apps, e.g. http://t.co/w7nbrULC
Shaunwilden 12:05 PM RT @harrisonmike: Big bonus re corpora is there are lots of webby, easy to access apps, e.g. http://t.co/5THaFjmF #eltchat
yearinthelifeof 12:05 PM @Marisa_C Just had a look at the map and it's all those islands up at the top :-) #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:05 PM Anyway corpora....#eltchat
teflgeek 12:05 PM corpora - they've takne away the collins cobuild now I think. #eltchat
MrWriteCzech 12:05 PM I use the BNC corpus as well but James said it is 15 years out of date. #ELTCHAT
alastairjgrant 12:05 PM http://t.co/9JgMfW1b - also... all words in context with synonyms etc. - help SS become more autonomous. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:05 PM The person who suggested the topic cant make it but she aint in the US/ Canada #eltchat
Begabungs 12:06 PM RT @cybraryman1: It's time for #ELTchat  NOW 7 am EST Topic Using corpora in our teaching: what is available and how can we best use it?
Shaunwilden 12:06 PM Spoken corpus - searchable European Youth Language file with videos and tapescripts. http://t.co/I1QmXUgm #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:07 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Spoken corpus - searchable European Youth Language file with videos and tapescripts. http://t.co/s3SWFkOc #eltchat
reasons4 12:07 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Spoken corpus - searchable European Youth Language file with videos and tapescripts. http://t.co/I1QmXUgm #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:07 PM My top recommendation for Ss is always the British national corpus 
SueAnnan 12:07 PM What do you use them for?#ELTchat
reasons4 12:07 PM RT @harrisonmike: #eltchat RT @harrisonmike: Big bonus re corpora is there are lots of webby, easy to access apps, e.g. http://t.co/w7nbrULC
SueAnnan 12:08 PM @theteacherjames  I do too, but not with students :-( #ELTchat
MarianSteiner 12:08 PM Teaching through #eltchat (again). Hope to catch the summary and / or see you on the later one!
theteacherjames 12:08 PM @SueAnnan I use them occasionally to check the most natural combination of words in a phrase, with the accent on 'natural'. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:08 PM http://t.co/LLbyU1OL USing the BNC but much more user friendly #ELTchat
yearinthelifeof 12:08 PM RT @SueAnnan: RT @Shaunwilden: Spoken corpus - searchable European Youth Language file with videos and tapescripts. http://t.co/s3SWFkOc #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:08 PM RT @SueAnnan: What do you use them for?#ELTchat - Yes please share ideas, i've used them with teachers but not sts
BobK99 12:09 PM Not spot on time for #eltchat , but  half an hour's corpus tweets to trawl through :-( Thanks @Marisa_C for stopping the rot!
teflgeek 12:09 PM a nice nik peachy article here:  http://t.co/X591vlgL #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:09 PM I first started using corpora when I taught a Dip translation course (Greek to English) and used to check my intuitions  #eltchat
reasons4 12:09 PM RT @michaelegriffin: My top recommendation for Ss is always the British national corpus 
SueAnnan 12:10 PM RT @harrisonmike: @theteacherjames @SueAnnan You do have to watch the source tho -  #eltchat good point
bethcagnol 12:10 PM Anyone know if a medical English corpus is out there? #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:10 PM @theteacherjames @SueAnnan You do have to watch the source tho - corpus may be online/Brit/American/spoken English/language #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:10 PM @SueAnnan I find it useful if the S asks a question about a very specific situation & I'm not sure which way is most common. #ELTchat
marcusmurilo 12:11 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Spoken corpus - searchable European Youth Language file with videos and tapescripts. http://t.co/I1QmXUgm #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:11 PM And another one claiming release in 2008 http://t.co/8GGDgFas #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:11 PM @Marisa_C It is very useful to check intuitions for academic English #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:11 PM @harrisonmike @SueAnnan True. Normally use http://t.co/KGxT9iv7, and then it goes through the James filter! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:11 PM A list of learner corpora around the world - some of them are free http://t.co/Hui5QuYt  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:12 PM So we're sharing lots of links and usefulness for us - what about for students? #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:12 PM I think corpora help tchs with the "what's 'more' correct" questions we can get from students. #ELTCHAT
OUPELTGlobal 12:12 PM Hi everyone, a bit late but I'm here. Just a need a minute to catch up #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:12 PM @bethcagnol Is there anything on the Michigan academic one on medicine?  I'm not sure #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:12 PM @PatrickAndrews We also use concordancers for checking up intuitions - v useful for adcanced learners  #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:12 PM http://t.co/8F3w4NkC English accents corpus - video edition!  #eltchat my SS love this
teflgeek 12:12 PM Another wide selection of corpus concordancer links here: http://t.co/tXszlXvP #eltchat
reasons4 12:12 PM RT @Shaunwilden: A list of learner corpora around the world - some of them are free http://t.co/Hui5QuYt  #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:13 PM @PatrickAndrews Would you have the link by any chance? #ELTCHAT I can check.
SueAnnan 12:13 PM RT @Shaunwilden: So we're sharing lots of links and usefulness for us - what about for students? #eltchat
yearinthelifeof 12:13 PM Instant 'what's more correct' tool http://t.co/RREnqitN #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:13 PM @yansinday #eltchat is on Using corpora in our teaching: what is available and how can we best use it?
Marisa_C 12:13 PM Good page on Graham Davies' ICT website  http://t.co/9jDV0jil on how to use concordancers #ELTchat (has he quit twitter?)
teflgeek 12:13 PM @bethcagnol I would have said they answer "what's more used" than correct!  #eltchat
yansinday 12:13 PM what's the topic of #ELTchat?
reasons4 12:13 PM RT @teflgeek: Another wide selection of corpus concordancer links here: http://t.co/tXszlXvP #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:13 PM @Shaunwilden Really useful  #eltchat
yearinthelifeof 12:13 PM I had to use corpus data to create a vocab syllabus. Anyone needing advice... http://t.co/dJYCF7Pi #ELTchat
bethcagnol 12:14 PM @teflgeek True. Thought sts don't often know corpora exist. So they always ask me "Which answer is more correct" ..... #ELTCHAT
michaelegriffin 12:14 PM RT @Shaunwilden we're sharing lots of links and usefulness for us - what about for students? #eltchat > think google N BNC are a good start
teflgeek 12:14 PM do a concordance search around "if" and learners search for conditional patterns,  #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:14 PM Bummed - http://t.co/DRHQXbHV used 2b neat and smart, and had examples of words being used in tweets - tworpus? but now changed #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:15 PM RT @ELTExperiences: So how 'correct' is language in a Corpus compared to natural and self-emerging language? #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:15 PM @teflgeek (cont) so I consider it my job to inform them of what's more common. So yes, you're right. #ELTCHAT
PatrickAndrews 12:15 PM @teflgeek Thanks - really useful.  I've bookmarked it  #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:15 PM So how 'correct' is language in a Corpus compared to natural and self-emerging language? #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:15 PM http://t.co/9JsLr2ss  @Shaunwilden: - another one for the SS - brit vs. US enlglish accents :) #eltchat
ljp2010 12:16 PM #ELTchat Hi all.  Have just caught up but can only stay 1o minutes :(  Uses for sts?  Create own gapped sentence exercises for CAE/CPE sts.
Marisa_C 12:16 PM Here is another useful tool for learners Visu word http://t.co/ZAdluRUH #eltchat - didn't have time to check but @NikPeachey blog post on it
dreadnought001 12:16 PM Useful collocation site my students use www.just-the-word.com/ #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:16 PM Links to anything and everything to do with language corpora http://t.co/m7Y3P3K9  (links provided by topic setter)  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:16 PM @teflgeek  prescriptive, or descriptive? #eltchat
BobK99 12:16 PM RT @alastairjgrant: ... this corpus...v useful for SS to get words from context #eltchat! Same corpus but I prefer  BYU's earch engine 1/2
PatrickAndrews 12:16 PM @bethcagnol http://t.co/qGdAi62S #eltchat
reasons4 12:16 PM RT @alastairjgrant: http://t.co/9JsLr2ss  @Shaunwilden: - another one for the SS - brit vs. US enlglish accents :) #eltchat
teflgeek 12:16 PM @bethcagnol  gotta teach to speak proper, right?  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:17 PM RT @dreadnought001: Useful collocation site my students use http://t.co/wMLt9yGu #eltchat > this is lovely i use it too "Just the Word"
Shaunwilden 12:17 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Uses for sts?  Create own gapped sentence exercises for CAE/CPE sts.
theteacherjames 12:17 PM @ELTExperiences I only take it as an indication of the commonality of use. Use it to back up my instincts, not inform them. #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:17 PM @PatrickAndrews Thanks! Bookmarked! #ELTCHAT  http://t.co/IoXIpBWa
Shaunwilden 12:17 PM RT @dreadnought001: Useful collocation site my students use http://t.co/WU5x6Ztf #eltchat - oh that's a nice easy to use one
teflgeek 12:17 PM Another Nik Peachy find (from last month) Just the Word visual thesaurus concordancer http://t.co/H0YjTTlm #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:17 PM @ELTExperiences What colour is a piece of string? depends on the corpus - spoken vs written, and origin #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:18 PM This is all to do with the SS - remove the dictionaries and show them a corpus. Much more cognitive value so vocab is gonna stick! #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:18 PM @theteacherjames but is Corpus appropriate with ELF and L2 to L2 speakers using English? #ELTChat
BobK99 12:18 PM 2/2 #eltchat ...http://tinyurl.com/qtwxer .Hmm - perhaps simpler interface is less daunting. But BYU also gives you COCA w/ same search eng.
PatrickAndrews 12:18 PM @bethcagnol Think we will be doing a lot of bookmarking today :-) #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:18 PM @harrisonmike but using a Corpus could be too prescriptive - "We don't use language like that ... we say it like that". #ELTChat
reasons4 12:18 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Links to anything and everything to do with language corpora http://t.co/m7Y3P3K9  (links provided by topic setter)  #eltchat
bvlahos 12:18 PM RT @marisa_c: Here is another useful tool for learners Visu word http://t.co/is79moyO #eltchat - didn't have time to check but...
harrisonmike 12:19 PM @ELTExperiences but corpora can be based on spoken language, therefore 'authentic' examples of usage rather than dry vocab book #eltchat
ljp2010 12:19 PM #ELTchat @alastairjgrant  Agree!  Give the word in 10 + different contexts rather than just one.
BobK99 12:19 PM RT @Marisa_C: Anyone here from the US voters who suddenly decided corpora was the thing for today? #eltchat: V glad you did!
Marisa_C 12:19 PM @teflgeek @SueAnnan  #eltchat  I think use of corpora and concs kind of excludes being prescriptive, or not?
Shaunwilden 12:19 PM @alastairjgrant Why remove the dictionaries? #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:19 PM @PatrickAndrews Wow....Playing with the site...and thus getting distracted!  http://t.co/IoXIpBWa  #ELTCHAT
dreadnought001 12:19 PM @Shaunwilden yes agreed, I like lextutor.ca personally but students find it too complicated! #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:20 PM @ljp2010 exactly! get THEM to work for it! #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:20 PM @ELTExperiences Good question. I think of it as a teacher tool, not for Ss &... #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 12:20 PM @harrisonmike but authentic examples of L2 users of English.  Perhaps there should be a corpus of L2 speakers of English. #ELTChat
yearinthelifeof 12:20 PM @dreadnought001 @Shaunwilden @eltexperiences http://t.co/PLmNnQDp sth for you to read later on how to ease students load #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:20 PM @alastairjgrant But the dictionaries provide more than the meaning - I'd have thought the tools work well together #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:20 PM @teflgeek Well...my sts (in France) are particularly obsessed with speaking perfect English. #ELTCHAT
alastairjgrant 12:20 PM @Shaunwilden - they look up a word, they see the definition, they forget it #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:20 PM @dreadnought001 I can see why they need to be of a quite a good level #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:21 PM @theteacherjames Just thinking out loud but when considering ELF, I suppose it is a tool and can be used. #ELTChat
PatrickAndrews 12:21 PM @ELTExperiences @theteacherjames Some such as MICASE do have ELF example #eltchat
teflgeek 12:21 PM @Marisa_C  @SueAnnan #eltchat - not necessarily.  Corpus data reflects authentic use.  Authentic use is not necessarily correct.
theteacherjames 12:21 PM @ELTExperiences ...I would hope the corpus is a reflection of international usage, but know it probably isn't. #ELTChat
SueAnnan 12:21 PM @ELTExperiences  had a good webinar on that on Monday #ELTChat
harrisonmike 12:21 PM @ELTExperiences Gooooooood idea #props #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:21 PM RT @harrisonmike: @ELTExperiences but corpora can be based on spoken language, therefore 'authentic' examples of usage rather than dry vocab book #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:22 PM A lot of Coursebooks now use a the Cambridge Corpus to inform lanaguage and vocab so there is definitely a place. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:22 PM @teflgeek Perhaps not - but there are many prescriptive grammars which truly incorrect as well - term not abt accuracy of info #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:22 PM @ELTExperiences Yes, I just don't think it should be taken as gospel. #ELTChat
OUPELTGlobal 12:22 PM @theteacherjames Isn't a corpus based on native speakers of English? Or is that a misconception on my part? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:22 PM @ELTExperiences @harrisonmike  Is this what you mean?  http://t.co/mEE3rcco - it's an ELF one  #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:22 PM @teflgeek I could totally see myself assigning a corpus search as a homework assignment.  Have to think about this more. #ELTCHAT
ELTExperiences 12:22 PM @PatrickAndrews @theteacherjames That sounds interesting. #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:22 PM @Shaunwilden - nope - too easy for SS to rely on them. We know that getting them to work things out has more value #eltchat
JosetteLB 12:22 PM @michaelegriffin @alastairjgrant thx for the tip re: BNC.I usually teach my Ts http://t.co/ux6blVwF May have to rethink things #ELTchat
ljp2010 12:22 PM #ELTchat @alastairjgrant How about dictionary + corpus egs + personalisation?  Time consuming but thorough.
alastairjgrant 12:23 PM @ljp2010 #eltchat def agree re personalisation!! AND they can make rude sentences about their teacher :)
teflgeek 12:23 PM RT @teflgeek: @Marisa_C  fair point. #eltchat
reasons4 12:23 PM #ELTChat isn't google one of the best copora around, put in the word or phrase, hit search and students can see the item in context.
theteacherjames 12:23 PM @OUPELTGlobal I don't know, but if it is that would be a serious flaw for us in ELT. #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:23 PM @teflgeek @Marisa_C @SueAnnan Maybe but how else do we define correct in English but by stating what is used #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:23 PM @alastairjgrant hmm we're going to have to disagree on this - I'd rather my sts a used a dictionary to be honest #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:23 PM @bethcagnol  a good, if unacheiveable, target! #eltchat
yearinthelifeof 12:23 PM Meeting at half past... enjoy the rest of the chat, folks #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:24 PM @reasons4 Fully agree re google - that's what i prefer to suggest to fl learners too - easier to view  #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:24 PM @reasons4 That's how I get students to see if something is commonly used, yes. #ELTCHAT
MrChrisJWilson 12:24 PM #eltchat Seams to be an undercurrent of a debate regarding teaching prescriptive and descriptive grammar/vocab going on.
ELTExperiences 12:24 PM RT @reasons4: #ELTChat isn't google one of the best copora around, put in the word or phrase, hit search and students can see the item in context.
alastairjgrant 12:24 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat so you wouldn't use corpora at all...?
harrisonmike 12:24 PM @yearinthelifeof seeeeeee ya #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:24 PM @reasons4 Thats a good point! #ELTChat
PatrickAndrews 12:24 PM @OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames Some such as MICASE have non native speaker examples.  Think one at Warwick too  #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:24 PM @Shaunwilden @harrisonmike That is great. Perhaps a learners corpus is needed 2 help teachers decisions on vocabulary and grammar #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:24 PM RT @reasons4: #ELTChat isn't google one of the best copora around, put in word or phrase, hit search & students can see the item in context.
yearinthelifeof 12:24 PM @teflgeek @bethcagnol Depends how you go about it #ELTchat
bethcagnol 12:25 PM @OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames http://t.co/oLyxhG6H the Vienna-Oxford International Corpus of English. #ELTCHAT
alastairjgrant 12:25 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat - I just think things need to be made a bit more 2.0, no? :)
ELTExperiences 12:25 PM I suppose that providing students the opportunity to view a Corpus and Dictionary at home is in their best interest. #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 12:25 PM @alastairjgrant No greatly no  #ELTChat
dreadnought001 12:25 PM How many people adapt corpus data to create exercises for Ss? Don't much myself but would like to hear ideas about it!! #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:26 PM @harrisonmike but goodness knows my SS have learnt a LOT of English from po.rn... #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 12:26 PM I would see a corpus being very useful for ESL or visiting students in an Engl;ish-speaking country #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:26 PM @Shaunwilden @alastairjgrant and those dreaded electronic ones as well #ELTChat
MrChrisJWilson 12:26 PM #eltchat re the point that using corpus can teach mistakes, if these are common enough for a corpus then are they mistakes?
teflgeek 12:26 PM @PatrickAndrews @Marisa_C @SueAnnan #eltchat - I think Marisa's point is that originally prescriptive grammars were
theteacherjames 12:26 PM RT @bethcagnol: @OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames http://t.co/oLyxhG6H the Vienna-Oxford International Corpus of English. #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:26 PM @alastairjgrant Plenty of online dictionaries :-) #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:26 PM @ELTExperiences hear hear! #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:26 PM @reasons4 one reservation often expressed abt google is amount of error in it  #ELTChat
harrisonmike 12:26 PM @Marisa_C @reasons4 po. rn English!!! watchout! Seriously, check ur safesearch filters to avoid embarrassing moments #eltchat #googlecorpus
theteacherjames 12:26 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @OUPELTGlobal @theteacherjames Some such as MICASE have non native speaker examples.  Think one at Warwick too  #eltchat
dreadnought001 12:27 PM I find collocation dictionaries/sites more useful than concordance data (more manageable I suppose) #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:27 PM @bethcagnol Forgot about the Vienna one but very useful  #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:27 PM @dreadnought001 I'm thinking of giving sts fixed expressions & telling them to do a search to see in what contexts they appear. #ELTCHAT
ELTExperiences 12:27 PM @alastairjgrant @harrisonmike I thought it was called learning languages by the pillow #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:27 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat...which don't require SS to think much...
EFLManager 12:27 PM May I join?  #ELTchat Did some awareness raising with students using online dictionaries and concordances. They preferred the dicts...
teflgeek 12:27 PM @PatrickAndrews @Marisa_C @SueAnnan #eltchat  based on a flawed understanding of the language - taking rules from latin & greek grammars
yearinthelifeof 12:27 PM @dreadnought001 have posted links in previous tweets #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:28 PM Another link: WebCorp is a suite of tools which allows access to the World Wide Web as a corpus http://t.co/aTFNbXo7 #ELTChat
reasons4 12:28 PM RT @bethcagnol: @dreadnought001 I'm thinking of giving sts fixed expressions & telling them to do a search to see in what contexts they appear. #ELTCHAT
harrisonmike 12:28 PM @alastairjgrant @ELTExperiences Probably best to keep that outside the classroom, eh, chaps? #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:28 PM @Shaunwilden @alastairjgrant agreed #ELTChat
idc74 12:28 PM Business corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' of language used in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/U2AOeYku #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:28 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat re the point that using corpus can teach mistakes, if these are common enough for a corpus then are they mistakes?
Marisa_C 12:28 PM @dreadnought001 the LTP one in print have you seen it ? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:28 PM @ELTExperiences @alastairjgrant  quite, the point I'm making is we can train sts how to use a dictionary not just give them up  #ELTChat
billpellowe 12:28 PM @dreadnought001 #eltchat the late Tim Johns used to write about Data Driven Learning. I've tried but students really aren't advanced enough
ELTExperiences 12:29 PM @Marisa_C you can always get sts to get a collocation dictionary. They are really useful. #ELTChat
EFLManager 12:29 PM RT @idc74: Bus corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/IxWB1tMq #eltchat > :-)
billpellowe 12:29 PM RT @idc74: Business corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' of language used in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/U2AOeYku #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:29 PM @reasons4 I think it was @cheimi10 who said that Amazon makes a great corpus. I could be wrong though! #ELTChat
michaelegriffin 12:29 PM @billpellowe @dreadnought001 #ELTchat i think there are many things that can trip SS up... like software...too much data/examples...
Shaunwilden 12:29 PM 29 minutes #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:29 PM @harrisonmike #eltchat dunno.... Dogme would say, "let it all in..."!
bethcagnol 12:29 PM @dreadnought001 Well I find the one @teflgeek just sent me loaded with possibilities to use with sts. http://t.co/oif0mkqX #ELTCHAT
Marisa_C 12:29 PM And for collocation material the Words You Need  & More Words you Need - both out of print but pioneering books for advaced Ls #eltchat
nickkiley 12:30 PM @ELTExperiences  #ELTchat Collocation dictionary is easier than using concordance? For students, I mean. In your experience?
teflgeek 12:30 PM Collocation word clouds / phrasal verb spidergrams by particle - #eltchat
BobK99 12:30 PM RT @Shaunwilden: A list of learner corpora around the world - some of them are free http://t.co/kwm0kqlc  #eltchat !Wow - overload or what?!
ELTExperiences 12:30 PM RT @EFLManager: RT @idc74: Bus corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/IxWB1tMq #eltchat > :-)
reasons4 12:30 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Another link: WebCorp is a suite of tools which allows access to the World Wide Web as a corpus http://t.co/aTFNbXo7 #ELTChat
nickkiley 12:31 PM @SueAnnan  #ELTchat AH yes, lots of those about :-)
billpellowe 12:31 PM I used to use Conc on Mac. Anyone know if there's a modern version of it? #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:31 PM My young students might use a simple app on their phones #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:31 PM @BobK99 what;s that for?  #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:31 PM @idc74 Funny...I thought it was "at the end of the day." Michael McCarthy mentioned it at a conference in France last year.  #ELTCHAT
dreadnought001 12:32 PM @yearinthelifeof thanks Adam, just trying to catch up with the stream #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:32 PM @nickkiley it is easier for me to prepare gapfill and collocation based exercises using a Corpus. I created one to look at grammar #ELTChat
dreadnought001 12:32 PM @bethcagnol @teflgeek wow, that is a damn fine website (especially for those of us teaching EAP) #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:32 PM @EFLManager @idc74 Re: "I don't know"  I gotta tell my French students.  That's something that is culturally difficult to say. #ELTCHAT
reasons4 12:33 PM RT @theteacherjames: @reasons4 I think it was @cheimi10 who said that Amazon makes a great corpus. I could be wrong though! #ELTChat
reasons4 12:33 PM ‚Äú@Marisa_C:Fully agree re google - that's what i prefer to suggest to fl learners too - easier to view  #ELTChat‚Äù I usually use the news bit
SueAnnan 12:33 PM RT @ELTExperiences: I wonder if thr is a Chav/Hoodie corpus of English. It wld B filled w/ 'innit'/'butters'/etc. Hahaha. #ELTChat>LOL
teflgeek 12:33 PM Has anyone experimented with using corpuses (Corpi?) for learner writing self correction? #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:33 PM @dreadnought001 @teflgeek No kiddin'! The ideas just started flowing when I browsed it. #ELTCHAT
ELTExperiences 12:33 PM I wonder if there is a Chav/Hoodie corpus of English. It would be filled with 'innit'/'butters'/etc. Hahaha. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:33 PM @ELTExperiences Collocation grids also easy to make  #ELTChat
dreadnought001 12:34 PM @nickkiley @ELTExperiences for my students yes, when they want to check if the verb+noun combo in their essay is correct or not #eltchat
BobK99 12:34 PM RT @teflgeek: @bethcagnol ...r "what's more used" than correct!  #eltchat !cCan of worms. Wear protective clothing if going there!
reasons4 12:34 PM ‚Äú@theteacherjames:  I think it was @cheimi10 who said that Amazon makes a great corpus. I cld be wrong though! #ELTChat‚Äù great minds?
patjack67 12:34 PM Anyone ever come across a Kids Corpus suitable 4 YL ELT materials writing?...Nice project for someone. #eltchat
EFLManager 12:34 PM @bethcagnol  @idc74  #ELTchat Yes, in some Asian countries would be a problem, too. What should we do in that case?
SueAnnan 12:35 PM @bethcagnol  LOL #ELTCHAT
bethcagnol 12:35 PM @ELTExperiences A redneck corpus would be filled with collocations like "witchadidja".  = you didn't bring yo truck witchadidja? #ELTCHAT
teflgeek 12:35 PM #ELTChat @ELTExperiences  there is:  the BNC:  http://t.co/Y4ra49Gp
ELTExperiences 12:35 PM @EFLManager @bethcagnol @idc74 perhaps this is when a corpus should be used as a guide but not a binding rule. #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 12:36 PM @SueAnnan @ELTExperiences A hoodie corpus would be useful for me - never know what people are saying half the time! #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:36 PM @EFLManager @idc74 But it would also require in-class discussions as to why it's the most common collocation. #ELTCHAT
alastairjgrant 12:36 PM #eltchat try this for slang - Urban Dictionary :) http://t.co/GmDRY2Fb
bethcagnol 12:36 PM @EFLManager @idc74 I would do a mini lecture on corpora then. Show them the list: http://t.co/PPiKkZhq #ELTCHAT
ELTExperiences 12:36 PM @bethcagnol That's funny. #ELTChat
theteacherjames 12:37 PM RT @idc74: Business corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' of language used in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/U2AOeYku #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:37 PM @SueAnnan It's a real word! I mean it! http://t.co/Np4HIhCb   :-) #ELTCHAT
Marisa_C 12:37 PM Usefull article by Costas Gavrielatos includes section on corpora in the classroom http://t.co/WOSD211n #eltchat
MrChrisJWilson 12:37 PM #eltchat probably already been mentioned [late] but isn't there some good program that can search the frequency of words in books?
SueAnnan 12:37 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @SueAnnan @ELTExperiences A hoodie corpus wld B useful 4 me - nevr know wht ppl R saying half the time! #ELTChat :-)))
OUPELTGlobal 12:37 PM @bethcagnol I would like to read that! #eltchat
reasons4 12:37 PM ‚Äú@harrisonmike: @Marisa_C  check ur safesearch filters to avoid embarrassing moments #eltchat #googlecorpus‚Äù I suggest the news search
Shaunwilden 12:38 PM RT @MrChrisJWilson: #eltchat  isn't there some good program that can search the frequency of words in books?
ELTExperiences 12:38 PM @Shaunwilden @SueAnnan or a corpus based on hoodie text messages would offer YLs to text like a 'brother' #ELTChat
BobK99 12:38 PM RT @Marisa_C: @BobK99 what;s that for?  #eltchat: BYU? Brigham Young University.
JoeMcVeigh 12:38 PM Great corpus comparison of phrasal verb frequency in Brit vs Am English in latest TESOL Quarterly - avail online to TESOL Members #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:39 PM @MrChrisJWilson Not sure about books but I have used wordsift.com with texts and advanced sts #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:39 PM chav dictionary http://t.co/fYgpEoUU #eltchat
EFLManager 12:39 PM RT @bethcagnol @idc74 But it would also require in-class discussions  #ELTCHAT > & lots of discussion of e.g.s? - is it always same function
Marisa_C 12:39 PM Frequency of occurence of a choice in google sometimes a deciding factor on what to use for translation studies - maybe for Ss too #eltchat
daylemajor 12:40 PM @Shaunwilden @MrChrisJWilson Try http://t.co/cobUJz5h #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:40 PM RT @alastairjgrant: chav dictionary http://t.co/fYgpEoUU #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:40 PM @Marisa_C There is an article in a book by Norton and Toohey on the use of corpora - shy it is liberating  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:40 PM @BobK99  #eltchat yes
SueAnnan 12:40 PM @alastairjgrant  that one is way out of date :-) #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:41 PM @alastairjgrant I love some of the examples: “Floor it, he looks like he’s gov.” #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:41 PM Adv classroom idea:  take most common collocation from business corpus and ask sts to discuss why they are the most common. #ELTCHAT
bethcagnol 12:42 PM @EFLManager @idc74 And discussion on the intonation of these common expressions. Michael McCarthy mentioned that in his talk. #ELTCHAT
teflgeek 12:42 PM Also good article here http://t.co/moA7jTyi Mike Nelson in Guardian #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:42 PM I enjoyed this pecha kucha @ #KOTESOL by Nicholas Groom http://t.co/ZIYrAhrz
alastairjgrant 12:42 PM @ELTExperiences , it's lush, innit? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:42 PM RT @bethcagnol: Adv c/room idea take most common collocation from business corpus and ask sts to discuss why they are  most common. #ELTCHAT
MrChrisJWilson 12:42 PM @daylemajor: @Shaunwilden @MrChrisJWilson Try http://t.co/nck33Whr #eltchat that's the one!
BobK99 12:43 PM RT @bethcagnol: @teflgeek ... ass.  ... search as a h/w ass't...#ELTCHAT But it ends up w me doing it! Hard to get Ss to share my enthusiasm
teflgeek 12:43 PM And Bill Mascull on corpora and teaching materials:  http://t.co/34RBqZpt  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:43 PM @bethcagnol That reminds me of asking sts to choose 5 collocations from a text, then looking to see how common/useful etc they are #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:44 PM @alastairjgrant there is a teacher that I work with that is always using 'innit?' with his sts. They learn that. #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:44 PM The circle of the English language - all the old words come back into current use... http://t.co/C0YWiESY #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:44 PM This is a link filled bonanza of an #eltchat, innit
yearinthelifeof 12:44 PM @dreadnought001 Tough to keep up sometimes #ELTChat
reasons4 12:45 PM @Shaunwilden that's why I am retweeting so I can find them easily #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:45 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @bethcagnol That reminds me of asking sts to choose 5 collocations from a text, then looking to see how common/useful etc they are #eltchat
BobK99 12:45 PM RT @reasons4: #ELTChat isn't google one of the best copora ... students can see the item in context.! Yes, but WHOSE?
Shaunwilden 12:45 PM Ok 15 mins left, we got links galore and some ideas for use what else do we need to mention re corpus? #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:45 PM RT @Shaunwilden: This is a link filled bonanza of an #eltchat, innit > sure is!!!
JoeMcVeigh 12:46 PM Sorry just dropping in for a minute.  Anyone rec CUP book by Reppen: Using Corpora in the Language Classroom? http://t.co/9QzkA1Qy #ELTchat
yef13 12:46 PM RT @idc74: Business corpora research reveals most common 'chunk' of language used in business: "I don't know". Full list: http://t.co/U2AOeYku #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:46 PM RT @Marisa_C: @Shaunwilden We are a bit thin on ideas for use in the classroom - assumes web access in class or at home  #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:46 PM @Shaunwilden We are a bit thin on ideas for use in the classroom - assumes web access in class or at home  #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 12:46 PM @reasons4 Good idea though you can always check the transcript :-) #ELTChat
SueAnnan 12:46 PM @reasons4  just wait for the summary and the links will be collected together #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:46 PM oops http://t.co/vnGkxw9q #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:46 PM the BBCs official take on "innit" #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:47 PM RT @ELTExperiences: @SueAnnan I shld get my sts dn 2 Sports Direct 2 learn more abt natural language & C possible collocations #ELTChat
OUPELTGlobal 12:47 PM Have been following some of the sites mentioned. Great classroom material to get sts thinking about the USE of the language #eltchat
shikha_speaks 12:47 PM RT @english247: RT @aClilToClimb Where does the greeting Merry Christmas come from? http://t.co/UiDrVAPe frm @eslreading #elt #eltchat
alastairjgrant 12:47 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C - i thinks it's about raising SS awareness of corpora, training them to use them and then let them free :) #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:47 PM RT @Shaunwilden  what else do we need to mention re corpus? #ELTChat >>Id love to hear how people help ss get accustomed to using corpora
bethcagnol 12:47 PM @BobK99 Yeah, that's always a challenge. My sts aren't always psyched about the same things I am. That's the nature of the job. #ELTCHAT
BobK99 12:47 PM RT @ELTExperiences: @Shaunwilden @alastairjgrant and those dreaded electronic ones as well #ELTChat! Impressive, but often SO wrong.
teflgeek 12:47 PM @Marisa_C  with the old collins cobuild, you could print off pages, give out coloured pens / pencils and let them work it out #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:47 PM @SueAnnan I should get my sts down to Sports Direct to learn more abt natural language and see possible collocations #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:47 PM Are corpora more useful as research tools to the teacher and the more advanced learners? What do you think? #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:48 PM @BobK99 @Shaunwilden @alastairjgrant the monolingual electronic dictionaries are great but the translation dictionaries aren't good #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:48 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C I'm trying guys! I'm tryin'! #ELTCHAT
CELT_Athens 12:48 PM RT @teflgeek: @Marisa_C  with the old collins cobuild, you could print off pages, give out coloured pens & let them work it out #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:48 PM @JoeMcVeigh I have this book and it is incredibly useful to think about Corpus in the classroom. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:49 PM What about for peer correction? #eltchat
michaelegriffin 12:49 PM @JoeMcVeigh Re Using Corpora in the Language Classroom? amzn.to/rrFUvl #ELTchat >ithink there is some useful stuff for sure but dont love it
Marisa_C 12:49 PM @bethcagnol :-) and doing a good job!  #ELTCHAT
bethcagnol 12:49 PM Classroom idea:  Take common collocations and discuss the various intonations and which contexts they would be appropriate in. #ELTCHAT
kit2kat 12:50 PM RT @SueAnnan: ...do we run the risk of students becoming attached to outdated material? #ELTchat <not if we focus on equipping self-learning
teflgeek 12:50 PM Classroom idea:  incorrect collocations infogap - one learner has list of collocations, one learner has error strewn text  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:50 PM @bethcagnol You're doing a grand job :-) #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 12:50 PM @BobK99 @Shaunwilden @alastairjgrant I rmbr a Chinese stud coming 2 me after looking at dictionary & said "From what ode are you?" #ELTChat
SueAnnan 12:50 PM As language doesn't stand still, do we run the risk of students becoming attached to outdated material? #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:50 PM @ELTExperiences @JoeMcVeigh I was just looking thru it on amazon and looks useful #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 12:51 PM @Marisa_C call my bluff aint played that for ages! Oh the good old days :-) #ELTChat
miladakrajewska 12:51 PM Hello, I can only stay for a sec - about enough 2 leave 2 links: http://t.co/obTu4psU  & http://t.co/LaFLUREV  #ELTchat
bethcagnol 12:51 PM Why not ask sts to create their own in-class corpus? Record them for 10 weeks. Sts deal with the transcribing. #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:51 PM @SueAnnan @ELTExperiences  Well pick a context for that :-) #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 12:51 PM @teflgeek wonderful idea or get sts to correct collocations based on student created material or writing. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:51 PM Call my bluff then #eltchat with collocations
SueAnnan 12:51 PM @ELTExperiences  one of mine was 'tethered' instead of 'tied up' LOL #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:52 PM @bethcagnol I like that!  I can see a CPE project coming on!  #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:52 PM @bethcagnol how would you get them to create it? It requires a lot of work and teachers have very little time or lack motivation. #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:52 PM For fun classroom idea: Get sts to write up a corpus of their teacher to find the most common expression you use! #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM RT @michaelegriffin: #ELTChat >>Id love to hear how people help ss get accustomed to using corpora
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM RT @miladakrajewska: Hello, I can only stay for a sec - about enough 2 leave 2 links: http://t.co/KKbNHaZp  & http://t.co/tDOHjZsV  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:53 PM @Marisa_C I used to use that one a reseating activity  :-) #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 12:53 PM @Shaunwilden @bethcagnol it could work on a wiki site if there are more contributors I suppose. #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:53 PM @ELTExperiences just record one single lesson and tell them to create a corpus of common errors #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:53 PM RT @miladakrajewska: Hello, I can only stay for a sec - about enough 2 leave 2 links: http://t.co/obTu4psU  & http://t.co/LaFLUREV  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:53 PM @ELTExperiences @bethcagnol  Sounds like an ideal wiki project #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:53 PM With a large class - mega mingle - find your collocations (getting rather silly I think :-) #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:54 PM @Marisa_C I love the expression mega mingle! I bet that's not in any corpus! :) #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:54 PM @ELTExperiences I would get the sts to do the transcripts. They do all the work. #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:54 PM I got to go deal with a plumber, enjoy the last 5 minutes and please volunteer to do the summary  #ELTChat
miladakrajewska 12:54 PM RT @bethcagnol: Why not ask sts 2 cre8 their own corpus? ...>> Gr8 idea! I ask sts 2 'steal' & record chunks throughout the course. #ELTCHAT
ELTExperiences 12:54 PM @teflgeek that would be a great long term project. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 12:55 PM RT @bethcagnol fun classroom idea: Get sts to write up a corpus of their teacher to find the most common expression you use #ELTCHAT > Nice
ELTExperiences 12:55 PM RT @reasons4: RT @bethcagnol fun classroom idea: Get sts to write up a corpus of their teacher to find the most common expression you use #ELTCHAT love it
teflgeek 12:55 PM @theteacherjames @Marisa_C  turn it inbto a never ending mingle http://t.co/kO7hKSks #eltchat
reasons4 12:55 PM RT @bethcagnol fun classroom idea: Get sts to write up a corpus of their teacher to find the most common expression you use #ELTCHAT love it
Marisa_C 12:55 PM @theteacherjames ha ha no just made it up  #eltchat
SueAnnan 12:55 PM @Shaunwilden  it wasn't what you were thinking! Haha #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 12:56 PM @EFLManager @bethcagnol you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it. #ELTChat
EFLManager 12:56 PM RT @bethcagnol: sts to write up a corpus of their teacher to find the most common expression you use! #ELTCHAT > Dangerous, but great ;-)
Marisa_C 12:56 PM @bethcagnol more in the direction of studyinn idiolect but can lead to their own  #ELTCHAT
BobK99 12:56 PM RT @bethcagnol: ... ask sts to create  own in-class corpus? Record them for 10 weeks. Sts deal with the transc. #ELTCHAT !Brill. Must try:)
reasons4 12:56 PM RT @theteacherjames @Marisa_C I love the expression mega mingle! I bet that's not in any corpus! :) #eltchat :-)
reasons4 12:57 PM @bethcagnol ha ha I like it, mine you be you know and a little something, a little game a little exercise :-) #ELTChat
alastairjgrant 12:57 PM pleasure guys - must get to school now #eltchat :)
JosetteLB 12:57 PM @Shaunwilden @michaelegriffin great question! >>Id love to hear how people help ss get accustomed to using corpora. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:58 PM @JosetteLB well like any new thing u introduce shd break it down into bite sized activities -a syllabus of introducing corpora? #ELTchat
ELTExperiences 12:58 PM @harrisonmike see yaaaaaa have a lush class. #ELTChat
SueAnnan 12:58 PM Interesting set of links, will take up a lot of time to read over. Thanks everyone #ELTchat
theteacherjames 12:58 PM RT @teflgeek: @theteacherjames @Marisa_C  turn it inbto a never ending mingle http://t.co/kO7hKSks #eltchat
ELTExperiences 12:59 PM @bethcagnol: @ELTExperiences @EFLManager True.But fortunately I teach a variety of horses so there's always one group that drinks #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:59 PM also now late for work - been fun, see you all later!  #eltchat
reasons4 12:59 PM very interesting #ELTchat, thanks to all, t hanks for retweets and thanks to Mods too.
BobK99 12:59 PM RT @bethcagnol: ...Get sts to write up a corpus of  t to find the most comn expressionS you use! #ELTCHAT!Then play Buzzword Bingo - Risky:)
ELTExperiences 12:59 PM @bethcagnol @EFLManager that's so funny. #ELTChat
Marisa_C 1:00 PM @ELTExperiences good to have you back M #ELTChat
ELTExperiences 1:00 PM Thanks for the brainstorming session with #ELTChat today. It was the first time that I was back here in a long time.
Marisa_C 1:00 PM @reasons4 Cheers and see you soon  #ELTchat
Marisa_C 1:01 PM Well, we have reached the end of this #ELTchat and thanks to all for participating and to my co-mod @Shaunwilden who's dealing w plumber!!
idc74 1:02 PM @bethcagnol To clarify, "I don't know" is most common 3-word chunk. Corpora give so much info, what and how to use it is an issue. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:02 PM @Marisa_C He's vanished. hope that means i dont have to pay him! #ELTChat
Marisa_C 1:02 PM May I ask if anyone of you might be volunteering to write up the summary for this #ELTchat ?
michaelegriffin 1:03 PM Thanks all for the ELTchat. Lots of links to catch up on! Take care!
JosetteLB 1:03 PM First time at an #ELTchat I Quite the learning experience. Thanks everyone!
alastairjgrant 1:03 PM thanks  @Marisa_C ! I'lll do the summary if you like! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:04 PM @alastairjgrant @Marisa_C Super thanks Al, I'll send you the script shortly #ELTChat
Marisa_C 1:04 PM @alastairjgrant That's grand! Thanks Alastair! Shaun will be putting up link to transcript soon  #eltchat
bethcagnol 1:04 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C Thanks for being such great moderators today! #ELTCHAT
alastairjgrant 1:05 PM @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C - great!! I'll sort that out today - thanks again to both of you!! #eltchat  Shaun can you PM it to me too?
Marisa_C 1:05 PM @bethcagnol Mille mercis for trying to steer us in the direction of the classroom B #ELTCHAT
BobK99 1:06 PM Thanks to all for a link-rich chat. Bye. #eltchat
alastairjgrant 1:06 PM @Shaunwilden ah you just said that! great - thank yooooooooooooooo #eltchat

 

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