| 
  • If you are citizen of an European Union member nation, you may not use this service unless you are at least 16 years old.

  • You already know Dokkio is an AI-powered assistant to organize & manage your digital files & messages. Very soon, Dokkio will support Outlook as well as One Drive. Check it out today!

View
 

Reconciling dogme and an unplugged approach with situations where formal assessment plays a key role

Page history last edited by Shaun 12 years, 7 months ago

This is the transcript of the ELTchat on 09.11.2011 about Reconciling dogme and an unplugged approach with situations where formal assessment plays a key role in student motivation. 

 

username time status
Shaunwilden 12:03 PM Welcome everyone -dogme with situs where formal assessment plays a key role in sts motivation is the fun for the next hour #ELTchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: So then bring on the dogmatists and I promise to behave #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 12:04 PM RT @tonygurr: RT @brad5patterson: Just blogged:  Standing on our PLN‚Äôs shoulders http://t.co/jSqbAefa #eltchat #tesolfr #aplanet
juanalejandro26 12:04 PM I must confess I didn't know what dogme was, and I worked that way once already! #ELTChat
yitzha_sarwono 12:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Welcome everyone -dogme with situs where formal assessment plays a key role in sts motivation is the fun for the next hour #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:04 PM @theteacherjames Unless provoked of course ;-) #ELTchat
rliberni 12:05 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Welcome everyone -dogme with situs where formal assessment plays a key role in sts motivation is the fun for the next hour #ELTchat
ljp2010 12:05 PM #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"?
theteacherjames 12:05 PM Sorry @AnthonyGaughan can't make this #dogme #eltchat. Any other dogme-ites there? @dalecoulter @harrisonmike @LukeMeddings @thornburyscott
AlexandraKouk 12:05 PM RT @barbsaka: What kind of formal assessment are we talking about? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:05 PM RT @barbsaka: What kind of formal assessment are we talking about? #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:06 PM @ljp2010 Is not using materials synonymous with winging it? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:06 PM @rliberni Great to chat with you again :-))) #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:06 PM RT @theteacherjames: @cerirhiannon Have a great webinar, make sure you tweet the link to it later. #eltchat
esolcourses 12:06 PM @theteacherjames I'm here, tho' will be multi-tasking for part of it as I'm also in a webinar :-) #dogme #eltchat
rliberni 12:06 PM Hi there everyone sorry a bit late :-( #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:06 PM @Shaunwilden I'll see what I can do? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:06 PM RT @barbsaka: What kind of formal assessment are we talking about? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:06 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"?
teflgeek 12:07 PM Morning all - sorry I'm late  #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:07 PM @ljp2010 Would have thought it is often the opposite of winging it #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:07 PM @ljp2010 Straight for the jugular with that question! Dogme teachers don't plan, but they are very prepared. #ELTchat
ljp2010 12:07 PM @PatrickAndrews   #ELTchat  A good question.  No, you can still plan for a material- free class
esolcourses 12:07 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? ] winging it=unprepared #dogme=prepared/go with the flow
Shaunwilden 12:07 PM @ljp2010 Experience? Skill of the teacher? #ELTchat
juanalejandro26 12:07 PM I may say a difference according to what I do when I'm mad at my students! #ELTChat
rliberni 12:07 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? Great question!
AlexandraKouk 12:08 PM RT @bethcagnol: Jumping in here: shouldn't the teacher be prepared to adapt? If sts don't want Dogme then don't do Dogme. #ELTCHAT
ljp2010 12:08 PM #ELTchat @theteacherjames  So does that mean it's for the experienced teacher only?
bethcagnol 12:08 PM Jumping in here: shouldn't the teacher be prepared to adapt? If sts don't want Dogme then don't do Dogme. #ELTCHAT
theteacherjames 12:08 PM @esolcourses Good to see you, I decided to watch the webinar later. #dogme #eltchat
rliberni 12:08 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @ljp2010 Experience? Skill of the teacher? #ELTchat
PatrickAndrews 12:08 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? ] winging it=unprepared #dogme=prepared/go with the flow
PatrickAndrews 12:09 PM @ljp2010 Because it is extra challenging to make use of opportunities #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:09 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? ] winging it=unprepared #dogme=prepared/go with the flow
yitzha_sarwono 12:09 PM happily observing #eltchat on dogme and learning a thing or two from the great people there
rliberni 12:09 PM @barbsaka @AlexandraKouk  me too #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:09 PM @ljp2010 Not at all, like pre-service teachers can be trained. See @AnthonyGaughan's work for example. #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 12:09 PM RT @barbsaka: Still wondering about the contexts where teachers are using dogme and formal assessment. Was there an answer? #eltchat
rliberni 12:09 PM @ljp2010  a dogme approach works well with my stds who are very advanced and  don't fit into any elt 'boxes'  #eltchat
barbsaka 12:09 PM Still wondering about the contexts where teachers are using dogme and formal assessment. Was there an answer? #eltchat
juanalejandro26 12:09 PM when I don't feel like teaching, I improvise a class. On the other hand, a dogme class is prepared in order to encourage students  #ELTChat
ljp2010 12:09 PM @PatrickAndrews   #ELTchat How so?
Shaunwilden 12:09 PM RT @bethcagnol: Jumping in here: shouldn't the teacher be prepared to adapt? If sts don't want Dogme then don't do Dogme. #ELTCHAT
barbsaka 12:10 PM @teflgeek Perhaps the problem is that dogme approach allows students to go in self-determined direction? #eltchat
ljp2010 12:10 PM #ELTchat okay, sorry Shaun.  So formal assessment - achievement tests?  Prof tests?
esolcourses 12:10 PM RT @Shaunwilden Remember this #ELTchat  is  about dogme & formal assessment, tho of course we need to make sure everyone understands terms
rliberni 12:10 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @ljp2010 Would have thought it is often the opposite of winging it #eltchat yes as you're more 'exposed' I think
analuisalozano 12:10 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? ] winging it=unprepared #dogme=prepared
AlexandraKouk 12:10 PM RT @teflgeek: Why should there be a problem?  If the assessment is a good one does it matter how the students get there?  #eltchat
teflgeek 12:10 PM Why should there be a problem?  If the assessment is a good one does it matter how the students get there?  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:10 PM RT @bethcagnol: Jumping in here: shouldn't the teacher be prepared to adapt? If sts don't want Dogme then don't do Dogme. #ELTCHAT
rliberni 12:10 PM RT @theteacherjames: @ljp2010 Straight for the jugular with that question! Dogme teachers don't plan, but they are very prepared. #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:10 PM Remember this #ELTchat  is  about dogme and formal assessment, though of course we need to make sure everyone understand what each are
rliberni 12:11 PM RT @barbsaka: Still wondering about the contexts where teachers are using dogme and formal assessment. Was there an answer? #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:11 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Can someone explain the diff. between dogme and "winging it"? ] winging it=unprepared #dogme=prepared/go with the flow
annisaasri3424 12:11 PM RT @yitzha_sarwono: the thing about dogme in Indonesia; it doesn't really exist unless you're in a small English course with not enough resources! #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:11 PM @bethcagnol Nobody said it has to be 100% dogme. Use as when applicable. Sts needs always paramount. #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:11 PM @teflgeek Fair point but I presume the topic setter works in a strictly controlled environ where covering material is key? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:11 PM @teflgeek  welcome we're on dogme and looking for definitions #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:11 PM @teflgeek Problem is a lot of assessment is not so great #eltchat
esolcourses 12:11 PM RT @barbsaka: Still wondering about the contexts where teachers are using dogme and formal assessment. Was there an answer? #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:11 PM the thing about dogme in Indonesia; it doesn't really exist unless you're in a small English course with not enough resources! #eltchat
barbsaka 12:12 PM @teflgeek That makes sense :) #eltchat
rliberni 12:12 PM Waht are we meaning by 'formal assessment' here - exams? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:12 PM @ljp2010 Pleasure. What he does is fascinating, I think. #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:12 PM @barbsaka think it probably depends how rigid the means of formal assessment is, and the criteria being assessed. #eltchat
teflgeek 12:12 PM @barbsaka only an issue if the testing specific vocabulary or grammar items.  Broader competencies should be developed regardless?  #eltchat
ljp2010 12:12 PM #ELTchat @theteacherjames   Thx, btw.  Am checking out Anthony's work.
juanalejandro26 12:12 PM RT @theteacherjames: @bethcagnol Nobody said it has to be 100% dogme. Use as when applicable. Sts needs always paramount. #ELTCHAT
barbsaka 12:13 PM RT @Shaunwilden: 'Teaching unplugged' has a section about dogme and exam classes, page 94 and 95 if you  have the book #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:13 PM 'Teaching unplugged' has a section about dogme and exam classes, page 94 and 95 if you  have the book #ELTchat
esolcourses 12:13 PM RT @rliberni: Waht are we meaning by 'formal assessment' here - exams? #eltchat ] not necessarily - could be portfolio based, perhaps?
theteacherjames 12:14 PM @yitzha_sarwono The reality is that dogme's influence on the wider world of language learning hasn't really been felt yet. #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:14 PM @esolcourses @rliberni Portfolio could be combined with dogme #ELTchat
chrisjw133 12:14 PM #eltchat I saw an activity from "Teaching unplugged" that I thought could be adapted for formal assessments. http://t.co/MCSJuXm3
teflgeek 12:14 PM @Shaunwilden point taken...  but in principle (!) ...  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:14 PM Materials lk pastpapers, exam prep 4 specific types of test questions have2Bused extensively-how much room does that leave 4 dogme? #ELTCHAT
theteacherjames 12:15 PM @nickcherkas Don't forget the #eltchat hashtag!
PatrickAndrews 12:15 PM @teflgeek Think it often is #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:15 PM RT @teflgeek: @PatrickAndrews so the problem not the teaching method but the testing method? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:15 PM RT @nickcherkas: @bethcagnol so do we need to plan when to use dogme in lessons, or just use it when the opportunity arises?  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:15 PM @teflgeek not necessarily a problem :-) #eltchat
esolcourses 12:15 PM @teflgeek  @barbsaka IME, of the problems with formal assessment is that learners are often tested on a narrow range of skills #ELTChat
teflgeek 12:15 PM @PatrickAndrews so the problem not the teaching method but the testing method? #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:16 PM @theteacherjames i thought so too,here maybe cause the fear of us teachers to take things for granted & coming in unprepared #eltchat
esolcourses 12:16 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @esolcourses @rliberni Portfolio could be combined with dogme #ELTchat ] agree.  Has worked well for me in the past
Shaunwilden 12:16 PM @theteacherjames @nickcherkas @bethcagnol Cant both situations be the case? #ELTchat
brad5patterson 12:16 PM RT @theteacherjames: @yitzha_sarwono The reality is that dogme's influence on the wider world of language learning hasn't really been felt yet. #eltchat
rliberni 12:16 PM @PatrickAndrews @esolcourses  if portfolio then dogme fits well but if prescribed testing not sure dep on test #eltchat
ljp2010 12:17 PM #ELTchat @theteacherjames Hasn't dogme always been there in those moments of "Teach the sts not the plan"?
theteacherjames 12:17 PM @nickcherkas There are some things we teach in a language classroom that are not lang. i.e test taking skills - Flexibility is key #eltchat
teflgeek 12:17 PM @esolcourses so the need is more to develop teacher / management test writing skills?  #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:17 PM @rliberni @esolcourses Would agree #ELTchat
rliberni 12:18 PM RT @PatrickAndrews: @theteacherjames @nickcherkas Yes and need to get used to kinds of tasks involved in the test #ELTchat
ljp2010 12:18 PM #ELTchat @rliberni  True.  some teachers think coursebook = the course
PatrickAndrews 12:18 PM @theteacherjames @nickcherkas Yes and need to get used to kinds of tasks involved in the test #ELTchat
nickcherkas 12:18 PM @Shaunwilden @theteacherjames @bethcagnol I think so - some days  dogme just doesn't seem to work, & some when it does #ELTchat
rliberni 12:18 PM @yitzha_sarwono  dogme tchrs are always prepared  it's maybe giving up the prop of a txtbook imo & starting with std needs/wants #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:18 PM You can also test (review) your sts based on previous Dogme-guided lessons. #ELTCHAT
reditho 12:18 PM Heading for the webinar . Interesting #eltchat today sorry I can't stay... lurking a bit.
Shaunwilden 12:18 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @theteacherjames Hasn't dogme always been there in those moments of "Teach the sts not the plan"? - Yep :-)
esolcourses 12:18 PM @rliberni @PatrickAndrews agree... prescribed testing is a very "one-size-fits" all means of assessment. Hard to square the two #ELTChat
rliberni 12:19 PM RT @esolcourses: @teflgeek actually, I'd argue for the opposite, i.e. there is a need for more learner-centred methods of assessment & less rigidity #ELTChat
esolcourses 12:19 PM @teflgeek actually, I'd argue for the opposite, i.e. there is a need for more learner-centred methods of assessment & less rigidity #ELTChat
bethcagnol 12:19 PM @nickcherkas @theteacherjames Planning for Dogme? I wouldn't, in my opinion. Expecting it? Yes. #ELTCHAT
PatrickAndrews 12:19 PM @ljp2010 @theteacherjames Yes, think so.  I think that Allwright once wrote about making use of learning opportunities #ELTchat
juanalejandro26 12:19 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @rliberni  True.  some teachers think coursebook = the course
theteacherjames 12:19 PM @Shaunwilden @ljp2010 Nobody claimed it was new. What they did was formalise it, give it a framework & validate it as an approach. #ELTchat
teflgeek 12:20 PM @esolcourses OK, but surely that depends on the purpose of your testing?   #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:20 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @theteacherjames Hasn't dogme always been there in those moments of "Teach the sts not the plan"? - Yep :-)
barbsaka 12:20 PM @Shaunwilden Really good question. #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:20 PM I also feel the sts should know right from the beginning that you might go Dogme from time to time. #ELTCHAT
rliberni 12:20 PM @esolcourses  I agree but then we come up against the commercial world and that is like moving a mountain :-) #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:20 PM RT @Shaunwilden: #ELTchat  Does the fact the most schools dont actually test properly make dogme harder to rec‚Ķ (cont) http://t.co/Z2EY3txn
esolcourses 12:20 PM @teflgeek ...though of course, I would say that, being a #dogmeist ;-) #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 12:20 PM #ELTchat  Does the fact the most schools dont actually test properly make dogme harder to reconcile most test‚Ķ (cont) http://t.co/2ft8Fme0
rliberni 12:21 PM Testing can be a learner centred appch if they need IELTS or TOEFL then it HAS to take centre stage #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:21 PM @chrisjw133 @yitzha_sarwono We need to put to bed this idea that dogme = unprepared. See @dalecoulter's blog for great examples. #ELTCHAT
yitzha_sarwono 12:21 PM @rliberni exactly why it's not really working here, for me at least.Our parents & bosses are more of a textbook kind of type #eltchat
reditho 12:21 PM dont know much abt dogme but ive always had the impression U could go unplugged & match wht U have done 2 the syllabus "backwards" #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:21 PM @theteacherjames Damn I said I would behave :-) #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:21 PM @theteacherjames And hype it beyond belief? #ELTchat
rliberni 12:21 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @Shaunwilden: #ELTchat  Does the fact the most schools dont actually test properly make dogme harder to rec‚Ķ (cont) http://t.co/Z2EY3txn
yitzha_sarwono 12:22 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @rliberni  True.  some teachers think coursebook = the course
yitzha_sarwono 12:22 PM RT @Shaunwilden: #ELTchat  Does the fact the most schools dont actually test properly make dogme harder to reconcile most test‚Ķ (cont) http://t.co/2ft8Fme0
rliberni 12:23 PM @teflgeek  how not so? #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:23 PM Great point RT @rliberni Testing can be a learner centred appch if they need IELTS or TOEFL then it HAS to take centre stage #eltchat
teflgeek 12:23 PM RT @rliberni: Testing can be a learner centred appch if they need IELTS or TOEFL then it HAS to take centre stage #eltchat  Not so!
yitzha_sarwono 12:23 PM @theteacherjames @chrisjw133 @dalecoulter hehehe I know that, convincing people here that is the hardest part #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:23 PM @theteacherjames What's going on? #dogmetotherescue #eltchat
esolcourses 12:23 PM @rliberni yes, can appreciate that...  I think a lot depends on the levels and also the purpose of assessment, as @teflgeek says #eltchat
rliberni 12:23 PM @reditho @yitzha_sarwono  some schools do dictate how things will be & it's difficult to go a different way. #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:23 PM #ELTCHAT How could we motivate exam candidates through dogme?
tonygurr 12:23 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @theteacherjames Hasn't dogme always been there in those moments of "Teach the sts not the plan"? - Yep :-)
Shaunwilden 12:23 PM @theteacherjames @chrisjw133 @yitzha_sarwono @dalecoulter Agreed, dogmatists must get sick of the unprepared link #ELTchat
reditho 12:23 PM so I don't see how dogme is in conflict with formal assessment? can't formal assessment be authentic? or is it only about testing? #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:24 PM Add Dogme to the syllabus. #ELTCHAT
Shaunwilden 12:24 PM RT @harrisonmike: Isn't formative assessment based on what's covered in a dogme classroom a much better idea? Not personalised tests, but amalgamate #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:24 PM Isn't formative assessment based on what's covered in a dogme classroom a much better idea? Not personalised tests, but amalgamate #eltchat
teflgeek 12:24 PM @rliberni Most of the research says that test preparation has little or no effect of test performance- #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:25 PM @yitzha_sarwono @chrisjw133 That's why we need to keep detailed records of what has been achieved in class, so we can prove it. #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:25 PM Better than giving a random content &lang test that mite b way 2easy 4some &2difficult for others. Test at the point of need #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:25 PM RT @bethcagnol: Add Dogme to the syllabus. #ELTCHAT Why?
teflgeek 12:25 PM @rliberni   but then there's a difference between test familiarisation and test practice.   #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:25 PM #eltchat @AlexandraKouk I think by providing a class environment where they are central motivates. Of course if there is material to cover..
barbsaka 12:26 PM It sounds a bit as if dogme can work well for test prep, but not necessarily being linked to a test #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:26 PM :-) RT @harrisonmike @theteacherjames What's going on? #dogmetotherescue #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:26 PM @brad5patterson Agreed. Perhaps the problems start when there IS a lot of exam material to cover - how do we use Dogme then? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:26 PM RT @Shaunwilden: 'Teaching unplugged' has a section about dogme and exam classes, page 94 and 95 if you  have the book #ELTchat
rliberni 12:26 PM RT @cybraryman1: @bethcagnol My Dogme page:  http://t.co/ib5JPbxX #eltchat
cybraryman1 12:26 PM @bethcagnol My Dogme page:  http://t.co/ib5JPbxX #eltchat
ljp2010 12:26 PM #ELTchat  @harrisonmike Could you define "test at point of need"?
rliberni 12:26 PM @teflgeek  I'm not sure I agree  totally - I'm not talking about test practice but test prep  #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:26 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @theteacherjames @chrisjw133 @yitzha_sarwono @dalecoulter Agreed, dogmatists must get sick of the unprepared link #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:27 PM @e_siemens Cos i moderating #ELTchat  at mo - Tomorrow will be pack me bags and get flight day so then I will be :-)
harrisonmike 12:27 PM @ljp2010 Test learners on what they need to learn (which you have addressed thru emergent lang development in lessons) #eltchat
esolcourses 12:27 PM RT @harrisonmike: Isn't formative assessment based on what's covered in a dogme classroom a much better idea? Not personalised tests, but amalgamate #eltchat
rliberni 12:27 PM RT @barbsaka: It sounds a bit as if dogme can work well for test prep, but not necessarily being linked to a test #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:27 PM @AlexandraKouk @brad5patterson Dithc the exam material? Isnt too much of it overkill anyway? #ELTchat
teflgeek 12:27 PM @rliberni learners need to know what they're up against, sure!  but for IELTS et al, language development is more important.   #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:28 PM RT @barbsaka: It sounds a bit as if dogme can work well for test prep, but not necessarily being linked to a test #eltchat
ljp2010 12:28 PM #ELTchat @harrisonmike Agree.  So what other options are there?
rliberni 12:28 PM @teflgeek  of course , that goes w/out saying but they must know that your focus is getting them thru the exam so it is significant #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:28 PM RT @Shaunwilden:  Dithc the exam material? ...? #ELTchat> True! Realistically though, are most teachers allowed to do that?
brad5patterson 12:28 PM #eltchat That is the challenge @AlexandraKouk possibly have them present some material in pairs.  Listen/ Keep the space open to part needs
harrisonmike 12:28 PM @ljp2010 e.g. if a learner already knows the past simple inside out, why test them on it?? #eltchat
bethcagnol 12:28 PM @Shaunwilden Just so the sts are informed and don't think you're winging it. #ELTCHAT include a description of Dogme in the syllabus.
ljp2010 12:28 PM #ELTchat @harrisonmike  and the method of testing to employ?
yitzha_sarwono 12:29 PM @theteacherjames @chrisjw133 always write down my lesson plans,but based on textbook .Breaking the habit here,is the challenge ^^ #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:29 PM Haha... until the scores come back RT @Shaunwilden @AlexandraKouk @brad5patterson Ditch the exam material?... #ELTchat
bethcagnol 12:29 PM @Shaunwilden In France, the sts would need it because Dogme is a 180 from what they expect. They appreciate being informed. #ELTCHAT
harrisonmike 12:29 PM This is formative assessment isn't it folks? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:29 PM @bethcagnol Ah I misunderstood you, yes that is an excellent idea . #ELTchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:30 PM RT @barbsaka: It sounds a bit as if dogme can work well for test prep, but not necessarily being linked to a test #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:30 PM @Shaunwilden totally agree #eltchat
brad5patterson 12:30 PM Headed off to hear @cerirhiannon Enjoy the end of #eltchat all !
bethcagnol 12:30 PM Speaking of sts. I have to go teach now. IC the sts who helped us during the #TESOLFR conf. #ELTCHAT
rliberni 12:30 PM RT @harrisonmike: This is formative assessment isn't it folks? #eltchat yes but I thought we were on formal assessment
Shaunwilden 12:30 PM @AlexandraKouk prob not, but I think schools use exam material too much, training is imp but loads of past parers is unnecessary #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:30 PM RT @brad5patterson: Haha... until the scores come back RT @Shaunwilden @AlexandraKouk @brad5patterson Ditch the exam material?... #ELTchat
teflgeek 12:30 PM @rliberni but that can be done via dogme?   #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:30 PM @brad5patterson  possibly have them present some material in pairs.  Listen/ Keep the space open to part needs #eltchat> great ideas!
rliberni 12:31 PM @harrisonmike  to be honest I'm not sure myself  :-) #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:31 PM @yitzha_sarwono @chrisjw133 I don't write lesson plans anymore, it's too restrictive. I do outlines/skeletons which allow space. #eltchat
nickcherkas 12:31 PM @bethcagnol @Shaunwilden telling sts about dogme can prepare them and heighten their experience, i've found #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:31 PM @bethcagnol At my last school we gave a brochure of what sts can expect re methods etc when they enrolled #eltchat
nickcherkas 12:32 PM @theteacherjames @yitzha_sarwono @chrisjw133 #eltchat Me too - that's what dogme is for me, a framework depending on sts' needs
AlexandraKouk 12:32 PM RT @nickcherkas: @bethcagnol @Shaunwilden telling sts about dogme can prepare them and heighten their experience, i've found #ELTchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:32 PM @rliberni @reditho well,you've been here Berni. I think you can understand the situation better ^^ #eltchat
rliberni 12:32 PM @teflgeek  I didn't say it couldn't be I just said that having the test in mind is also learner centred #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:32 PM @nickcherkas @bethcagnol  I think this applies to all approaches and methods - informing sts is vital #eltchat
chrisjw133 12:33 PM @theteacherjames @yitzha_sarwono being  under a DOS I still have to. I try to allow students to produce as much material as pos #eltchat
rliberni 12:33 PM @yitzha_sarwono  I understand what you're saying - this is one of the reasons that Herlina is trying to change things :-) #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:33 PM @nickcherkas @yitzha_sarwono @chrisjw133 That's a good way of looking at it. #eltchat
ljp2010 12:34 PM #ELTchat  @chrisjw133  Depends which DOS
yitzha_sarwono 12:34 PM @theteacherjames that is super! Hope I get to do that too! I'm just gonna prove myself better to get to that level then :-) #Eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:35 PM @harrisonmike should think so - yes! #dogme #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:35 PM @theteacherjames @nickcherkas @chrisjw133 it sure is! thanks ^^ #eltchat
rliberni 12:35 PM RT @harrisonmike: Does portfolio type assessment tie in better/more comfortably than test-based assessment with a #dogme approach? #eltchat
esolcourses 12:35 PM RT @theteacherjames: @yitzha_sarwono See @dalecoulter's blog for some great examples. Try it now, as an experiment & blog about it! #Eltchat
rliberni 12:35 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #ELTCHAT Perhaps we could suggest some practical dogme-like activities than can be used in an exam prep class?
harrisonmike 12:35 PM Does portfolio type assessment tie in better/more comfortably than test-based assessment with a #dogme approach? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:35 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #ELTCHAT Perhaps we could suggest some practical dogme-like activities than can be used in an exam prep class?
theteacherjames 12:35 PM @yitzha_sarwono See @dalecoulter's blog for some great examples. Try it now, as an experiment & blog about it! #Eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:35 PM #ELTCHAT Perhaps we could suggest some practical dogme-like activities than can be used in an exam prep class?
Shaunwilden 12:36 PM @esolcourses @harrisonmike Because it is a truer record of progress? #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 12:36 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat Dunno if it's dogme.  I like the sts to make exam style tasks on subjects they're interested in. > great idea!!!
esolcourses 12:36 PM RT @harrisonmike: Does portfolio type assessment tie in better than test-based assessment with a #dogme approach? #eltchat ] IME, yes
ljp2010 12:36 PM #ELTchat @AlexandraKouk  Dunno if it's dogme.  I like the sts to make exam style tasks on subjects they're interested in.
teflgeek 12:36 PM @rliberni sorry from original tweet I thought you meant the teaching should be all about the exam.  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:37 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #ELTCHAT Perhaps we could suggest some practical dogme-like activities than can be used in an exam prep class?
Shaunwilden 12:37 PM RT @englishraven: #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/gBpFsdOX :)
analuisalozano 12:37 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @harrisonmike: Does portfolio type assessment tie in better than test-based assessment with a #dogme approach? #eltchat
englishraven 12:37 PM #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/gBpFsdOX :)
chrisjw133 12:37 PM @harrisonmike Are there any formal Portfolio based assessments in the EFL world? I never thought about it before #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:38 PM @rliberni @AlexandraKouk Lightning talks - sts talk for 1 min abt what they (dont)like abt their room,home,town etc #eltchat (ref TUnplgged)
yitzha_sarwono 12:38 PM RT @englishraven: #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/gBpFsdOX :)
esolcourses 12:38 PM @Shaunwilden @harrisonmike IME yes, & I also think there is more scope in there for personalising assessment #ELTchat
EveWeb 12:38 PM LIVE NOW: Ceri Jones: Getting the reading habit http://t.co/dt1K4Zs2 #ELTChat #ELLChat #webheads #avealmec
AlexandraKouk 12:38 PM RT @englishraven: #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/BZFcmFIh :)
theteacherjames 12:38 PM RT @englishraven: #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/gBpFsdOX :)
chrisjw133 12:38 PM @AlexandraKouk @ljp2010 One that I've been thinking about it getting students to make exam style questions based on a text. #eltchat
barbsaka 12:38 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: #ELTCHAT Perhaps we could suggest some practical dogme-like activities than can be used in an exam prep class?
harrisonmike 12:39 PM @chrisjw133 @cecielt's school in Brazil does it. Think it would be institutional rather than global if it does exist #eltchat #portfolio
AlexandraKouk 12:39 PM RT @chrisjw133: 1 that ive bn thinking abt itgetting students 2 make exam style questions based on a text.#eltchat >gr8! keep on that track!
Shaunwilden 12:39 PM @esolcourses @harrisonmike Which I can see but how does marry with the idea of needing sth 'formal' for career etc? #ELTchat
PatrickAndrews 12:39 PM @chrisjw133 @AlexandraKouk @ljp2010 Think that can work - have done it #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:40 PM RT @fionamau: #eltchat Hi. I'm late as usual.. dogme and testing, right? Formal testing or informal? technically formal
AlexandraKouk 12:40 PM RT @harrisonmike: Lightning talks- sts talk4 1 min abt wht they (dont)like abt their room,home,town etc #eltchat (ref TUnplgged)>gr8 !!!
theteacherjames 12:40 PM @harrisonmike @rliberni @AlexandraKouk Great idea - very similar to IELTS / TOEFL teaching exams. #eltchat
MagicinEdu 12:40 PM RT @Marisa_C: Reconciling dogme & an unplugged approach with situs where formal assessment key ..in student motivation. - Top topic for 1st #ELTchat :-)
fionamau 12:40 PM #eltchat Hi. I'm late as usual.. dogme and testing, right? Formal testing or informal?
yitzha_sarwono 12:40 PM @theteacherjames will surely do that. @dalecoulter watch out for storming questions from me :p #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:41 PM @fionamau Hurrah, another dogmetist joins #eltchat!
AlexandraKouk 12:41 PM RT @teflgeek: @harrisonmike: @rliberni @AlexandraKouk #eltchat Just a minute Speaking Relay Race ? http://t.co/1Lfzqoaq > definitely!
harrisonmike 12:41 PM @Shaunwilden @esolcourses A portfolio = educational record no? How more formal (in principle) does it need to get?? #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:41 PM RT @harrisonmike: @chrisjw133 @cecielt's school in Brazil does it. Think it would be institutional rather than global if it does exist #eltchat #portfolio
teflgeek 12:41 PM @harrisonmike: @rliberni @AlexandraKouk #eltchat Just a minute Speaking Relay Race ? http://t.co/z8s4GoWq
harrisonmike 12:42 PM @teflgeek Just A Minute speaking good for developing synonym knowledge too #eltchat #radio4
Shaunwilden 12:42 PM @harrisonmike @esolcourses Yes no argument from me here but then if they are not officially recognised..... #eltchat
MagicinEdu 12:42 PM RT @englishraven: #eltchat @AlexandraKouk 'The best approach to exam prep is an unplugged one' > http://t.co/gBpFsdOX :)
rliberni 12:42 PM @teflgeek  no I meant that it is learner centred for those who's career depend in it - it has to be a balance esp at higher levels #eltchat
teflgeek 12:42 PM RT @harrisonmike: @Shaunwilden @esolcourses How more formal (in principle) does it need to get?? #eltchat - Govt Approval?
teflgeek 12:43 PM @barbsaka http://t.co/z8s4GoWq  #eltchat
rliberni 12:43 PM @harrisonmike @teflgeek  1 minutes tyalks on random topics even more so!! #eltchat
nickcherkas 12:43 PM @harrisonmike @teflgeek #ELTchat and use of discourse markers and fillers
AlexandraKouk 12:43 PM @barbsaka  bit.ly/dPsJz6  #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:43 PM @Shaunwilden @esolcourses We rthe change that needs 2happen then. Who's up 4writing something that would become an int portfolio?! #eltchat
barbsaka 12:43 PM @harrisonmike @teflgeek link for the just a minute activities? #eltchat
rliberni 12:43 PM @harrisonmike @teflgeek  Lightning tasks are gr8 IELTS practice I use them a lot! #eltchat
PatrickAndrews 12:43 PM @harrisonmike @Shaunwilden @esolcourses portfolios are great but unfortunately some exams have more influence #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 12:43 PM @esolcourses @harrisonmike Links to some when you have time :-)  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:44 PM RT @nickcherkas: @harrisonmike @teflgeek #ELTchat and use of discourse markers and fillers > elaborate please? (very interesting idea!)
fionamau 12:44 PM RT @theteacherjames: @fionamau Hurrah, another dogmetist joins #eltchat! > :) but it'll take me 15mins to catch up!
dalecoulter 12:44 PM want 2 open an online space where students can upload writing, I have access to comment and give feedback,any ideas? #writing #elt #eltchat
barbsaka 12:44 PM @AlexandraKouk Thanks! #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:45 PM @fionamau Don't worry, just get stuck in! #eltchat
rliberni 12:45 PM I love lateral thinking puzzles for question practice,  speculation, conditionals etc.. great fun always a hit! #eltchat
ljp2010 12:45 PM #ELTchat @dalecoulter  Can voicethread be used for this?  Upload the media file, start a conversation?
harrisonmike 12:45 PM Jusat a minute rules: http://t.co/iLsu3dj3 #eltchat
Wiktor_K 12:45 PM http://t.co/NCF6zrSC - This pdf from eaquals, heavily cefr-based, has some assessment scenarios. Can-do is OK with dogme, right? #eltchat
barbsaka 12:46 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @esolcourses @teflgeek @harrisonmike Ta maybe i am being dumb but isnt that still prescribing what needs to be taught?  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:46 PM @esolcourses @teflgeek @harrisonmike Ta maybe i am being dumb but isnt that still prescribing what needs to be taught?  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:46 PM RT @rliberni: I luv lateral thinking puzzles 4 question practice, speculation, conditionals etc.. gr8 fun always a hit! #eltchat > tru!
dalecoulter 12:47 PM @theteacherjames @AnthonyGaughan @harrisonmike @LukeMeddings @thornburyscott there's another dogme eltchat??
fionamau 12:47 PM @Wiktor_K Can-do is OK with dogme, right? #eltchat > Yes, as a check list - when u've done something, u cross it off - but not as overt aims
AlexandraKouk 12:47 PM RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat @dalecoulter  Can voicethread be used for this?  Upload the media file, start a conversation? > another great idea!!!
harrisonmike 12:47 PM @dalecoulter You could share things on google docs #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:47 PM RT @rliberni: I love lateral thinking puzzles for question practice,  speculation, conditionals etc.. great fun always a hit! #eltchat
eyespeakbrasil 12:47 PM Hey all better late than never. #eltchat
esolcourses 12:48 PM @Shaunwilden @teflgeek @harrisonmike depends how you do it - again, not something you can debate properly in 140chrs, I think #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:48 PM RT @teflgeek: @dalecoulter  or check out primary pad: http://t.co/r4Ne4qp1 #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:48 PM RT @fionamau: #eltchat If u teach dogme, u usually cover the language 'required' for formal exams, and then some. U just need practice of the exam format
fionamau 12:48 PM #eltchat If u teach dogme, u usually cover the language 'required' for formal exams, and then some. U just need practice of the exam format
Wiktor_K 12:48 PM @fionamau Yes, that was my idea - I think even behind the most free-style dogme lesson there has to be a lot of implicit expertise #ELTchat
teflgeek 12:48 PM @dalecoulter  or check out primary pad: http://t.co/r4Ne4qp1 #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:48 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @esolcourses @teflgeek @harrisonmike Ta mayB i'm being dumb but isnt that still prescribing wht needs 2 B taught? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:48 PM @fionamau So how do you know when you have progressed a level?  #eltchat
teflgeek 12:49 PM @Shaunwilden which brings us back to the test again.  make the test about ability, not knowledge and it doesn't matter!  #eltchat
fionamau 12:49 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat For students, u can pin a copy of the target lang fr the level on the wall, & cross it off as u go. If necessary, u...
rliberni 12:50 PM RT @barbsaka: Moving into the final 10 minutes of #eltchat Start thinking about volunteering to do our summary. Please :)
Shaunwilden 12:50 PM @fionamau Thanks, that makes sense :-)  #eltchat
barbsaka 12:50 PM Moving into the final 10 minutes of #eltchat Start thinking about volunteering to do our summary. Please :)
fionamau 12:50 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat ... add a 'trad' session near the exam to cover anything missing, but in my experience it hasn't been necessary.
yitzha_sarwono 12:50 PM RT @fionamau: @Shaunwilden #eltchat For students, u can pin a copy of the target lang fr the level on the wall, & cross it off as u go. If necessary, u...
rliberni 12:50 PM Did a course last week - agricultural/horticultural/economy stds used lots of podcasts, Youtube, radio, discussion and farm visits #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:50 PM Ten minutes left  #eltchat  any more practical tips or ideas?
AlexandraKouk 12:50 PM RT @fionamau: @Shaunwilden #eltchat 4 students, u cn pin a copy of the target lang fr the level on the wall… (cont) http://t.co/yAxAvWpF
fionamau 12:51 PM @Shaunwilden #eltchat In fact, w/ teens, once u've got em motivated, u can get them 'to the level' in half the normal time. Honest. Done it.
yitzha_sarwono 12:51 PM RT @barbsaka: Moving into the final 10 minutes of #eltchat Start thinking about volunteering to do our summary. Please :)
esolcourses 12:51 PM RT @fionamau: @Shaunwilden #eltchat For students, u can pin a copy of the target lang fr the level on the wall, & cross it off as u go.
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM @Marisa_C Haven't you got feedback to go give :-)  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:52 PM @fionamau It wouldn't surprise me, the idea of crossing it off on the wall is  a really good one :-)  #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:52 PM RT @fionamau: #eltchat If u teach dogme, u usually cover the language 'required' for formal exams, and then so… (cont) http://t.co/C0k3I4iZ
theteacherjames 12:52 PM RT @fionamau: #eltchat If u teach dogme, u usually cover the language 'required' for formal exams, and then some. U just need practice of the exam format
rliberni 12:52 PM @Shaunwilden  go out if you can, esp in English spking countries - courts, talks, there sooo much stuff around of value #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:53 PM @Wiktor_K Good point, I was just wondering how revision fitted in  #eltchat
teflgeek 12:53 PM @Marisa_C  so that's how it's done!  #eltchat
OzGrrl09 12:53 PM RT @Shaunwilden: 'Teaching unplugged' has a section about dogme and exam classes, page 94 and 95 if you  have the book #ELTchat
Marisa_C 12:53 PM @Shaunwilden in a few minutes - all writing own feedback for each other now - so tutor can tweet :-)  #eltchat
Wiktor_K 12:53 PM Another problem with dogme's relation to testing is revision - with a lesson which is supposed to be "generated" with learners? #eltchat
esolcourses 12:53 PM RT @rliberni @Shaunwilden go out if you can, esp in English spking countries - courts, talks, there sooo much stuff around of value #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:54 PM Towards the end of a course, ask sts to go back & improve earlier written work. Discuss the changes they have made. #eltchat
fionamau 12:54 PM @Wiktor_K Dogme's all about expertise, in a sense, & fr 'newbies' it's abt daring 2 say 'we'll look at it together 2moro' & learnin #eltchat
teflgeek 12:54 PM @Shaunwilden @Wiktor_K  I usually ask them what they want to revise?  Set the goal, not the content.   #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:55 PM #ELTCHAT using short talks, having a list of objectives on the wall & write things off, voicethread & google docs, podcasts - anything else?
ljp2010 12:55 PM #ELTchat Gotta go film a Beg Kids' play :)  Thx everyone.  Gr8 chat.
esolcourses 12:55 PM @Wiktor_K learners can revise between lessons. I give them links & upload follow-on activities to my website to rwork on #ELTChat
esolcourses 12:56 PM RT @theteacherjames Towards the end of a course, ask sts to go back & improve earlier written work. Discuss changes they have made. #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:56 PM RT @theteacherjames: Towards the end of a course, ask sts to go back & improve earlier written work. Discuss the changes they have made. #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 12:56 PM RT @teflgeek: @Shaunwilden @Wiktor_K  I usually ask them what they want to revise?  Set the goal, not the content.   #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 12:56 PM RT @fionamau: @Wiktor_K Dogme's all about expertise, in a sense, & fr 'newbies' it's abt daring 2 say 'we'll look at it together 2moro' & learnin #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:57 PM RT @fionamau: @Shaunwilden the idea of crossing it off on the wall > It's motivating too, cuz they can see progress & have a reference point 2 #eltchat
Marisa_C 12:57 PM @teflgeek from day one - autonomy & self reflection should begin early  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:57 PM @harrisonmike Bye Mike thanks for joining  #eltchat
fionamau 12:57 PM @Shaunwilden the idea of crossing it off on the wall > It's motivating too, cuz they can see progress & have a reference point 2 #eltchat
harrisonmike 12:57 PM Byeeee #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:57 PM @Wiktor_K Vocab revision can absolutely be integrated into a dogme class. We have the space to include it. #eltchat
teflgeek 12:58 PM @Marisa_C with exam classes they don't always know what they don't know...  but I take the point!   #eltchat
theteacherjames 12:58 PM @teflgeek @Shaunwilden @Wiktor_K I keep a record of the vocab to revise, bring to next class, remind them & practice.  #eltchat
rliberni 12:58 PM Some  photos of my 'unplugged' stuff :-) http://t.co/tMV8JZM4 #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:58 PM Summary anyone? #eltchat
Wiktor_K 12:58 PM @teflgeek @Shaunwilden @esolcourses so,with revision at home &learner-directed,what's teacher's role here &does dogme account4it? #ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 12:58 PM RT @Marisa_C: @teflgeek from day one - autonomy & self reflection should begin early  #eltchat
teflgeek 12:59 PM @Wiktor_K  being the reference of last resort?  #eltchat
OztrkOzge 12:59 PM #ELTCHAT hi dear all, i am late but want to read your tweets about testing and see if i can catch up...
English_safari 12:59 PM “@dalecoulter: want 2 open an online space where students can upload writing, I have access to ..#eltchat” > Moodle will let you do all that
yitzha_sarwono 12:59 PM RT @rliberni: Some  photos of my 'unplugged' stuff :-) http://t.co/tMV8JZM4 #eltchat
barbsaka 12:59 PM RT @Shaunwilden: I really like the revision ideas that people have suggested #eltchat
barbsaka 12:59 PM So, who's interested in writing the summary for this chat? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 12:59 PM I really like the revision ideas that people have suggested #eltchat
phil2wade 1:00 PM @fionamau @Shaunwilden #ELTCHAT Online blogs are good for journals.
AlexandraKouk 1:00 PM RT @English_safari: “@dalecoulter: wnt 2 open an online space whr students cn upload ..#eltchat >Moodle will let U do all that > also wikis?
Shaunwilden 1:00 PM RT @barbsaka: So, who's interested in writing the summary for this chat? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:00 PM @fionamau We did now thanks :-) #eltchat
fionamau 1:00 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Ten minutes left  #eltchat  more practical tips or ideas? > Did u mention writing journals? Essential tools for 'diagnosis'
theteacherjames 1:01 PM RT @Shaunwilden: We really need a summary writer volunteer please #eltchat
barbsaka 1:01 PM C'mon...you know in your heart you want to volunteer! We love our summary writers :) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:01 PM We really need a summary writer volunteer please #eltchat
rliberni 1:01 PM Great chat everyone please volunteer for the summary  thanks to fab co-mods as ever @barbsaka  @Shaunwilden and  @Marisa_C  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 1:02 PM Tonight's #eltchat is on Using wikis in ELT - 21.00GMT
Wiktor_K 1:02 PM @teflgeek Hah, good one :) I used 2 teach callan method - even a hardcore method like this switched 2 exam papers later for FCE...#ELTchat
AlexandraKouk 1:02 PM RT @rliberni: gr8 chat everyone please volunteer 4 the summary thx 2 fab co-mods as evr @barbsaka @Shaunwilden & @Marisa_C #eltchat
theteacherjames 1:03 PM I love talking #dogme with you people! Thanks to moderators @barbsaka @Shaunwilden & @rliberni. #eltchat
esolcourses 1:03 PM @Wiktor_K I see teachers role as being facilitator, helping s's become autonomous learners. Other end of spectrum to spoon-feeding? #ELTCHAT
Marisa_C 1:03 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is on Using wikis in ELT - 21.00GMT
bucharesttutor 1:03 PM RT @barbsaka: C'mon...you know in your heart you want to volunteer! We love our summary writers :) #eltchat
fionamau 1:03 PM RT @phil2wade @Shaunwilden #ELTCHAT Online blogs are good 4 journals.>Yes, bt there's something + personal abt a notebook..u can graffiti it
teflgeek 1:04 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Tonight's #eltchat is on Using wikis in ELT - which I can't make!  So here's something I prep‚Ķ (cont) http://t.co/7Gw4PQco
esolcourses 1:04 PM Thanks for another great #ELTChat folks! Catch you later :-)

 

Comments (0)

You don't have permission to comment on this page.