| username |
time |
status |
| Shaunwilden |
10:02 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: Can I start of by asking what people consider placement tests mean? #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:02 PM |
#eltchat placement tests time! |
| ELTExperiences |
10:03 PM |
Can I start off* - I mean #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:03 PM |
#eltchat tests to ascertain a ss level in order to stream them accordingly |
| Marisa_C |
10:04 PM |
Welcome to #ELTchat we are talking about placement tests - @Shaunwilden and @Marisa_C moderating - ask for help if new |
| ShellTerrell |
10:04 PM |
If you need any help, your moderators are @Shaunwilden and me! #ELTChat We are taking about placement tests |
| TyKendall |
10:04 PM |
#eltchat is tweetdeck slow or is this chat rather quiet? |
| dreadnought001 |
10:05 PM |
@TyKendall sounds a good definition #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:05 PM |
If you need any help, your moderators are @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C and me! #ELTChat We are taking about placement tests |
| Shaunwilden |
10:05 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat tests to ascertain a ss level in order to stream them accordingly and as marisa sai… (cont) http://t.co/LHS11eP |
| Marisa_C |
10:05 PM |
@ShellTerrell Hey Welcome to our co-moderator - Great stuff #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:05 PM |
If you need any help, your moderators are @Shaunwilden @Marisa_C and me! #ELTChat We are taking about placement tests |
| TyKendall |
10:06 PM |
#eltchat scary thing i noticed is that most online place/tests are purely grammar based and specifically VERB FORMS is this all lang is? |
| sandymillin |
10:06 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @PrettyButWise A test to determine level of students so you can place them in the right class or design the right course for them #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:06 PM |
@ELTExperiences only grammar knowledge? #ELTChat |
| ayatawel |
10:06 PM |
Hello eltchat ers !! #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:06 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: @Shaunwilden @TyKendall I suppose there are two type of placement tests: one to test grammar knowledge and one to design courses #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:06 PM |
@Shaunwilden @TyKendall I suppose there are two type of placement tests: one to test grammar knowledge and one to design courses #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:07 PM |
@ELTExperiences I thought they are tests taken to decide what job suit you #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:07 PM |
@TyKendall I'd say that many focus on either grammar or vocab #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:07 PM |
What purpose do placement tests serve? #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:07 PM |
@Shaunwilden Placement test 4 YLs at local school assesses grammar knowledge and places sts into levels. But too much focus on gr. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:07 PM |
@TyKendall quite scary #eltchat - also SOME vocabulary but no skills sections |
| ayatawel |
10:07 PM |
@ELTExperiences I guess a placement test is for all skilss , not for specific knowledge !! #eltchat |
| dreadnought001 |
10:07 PM |
How is it done where u teach? Written test or oral? Both? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:08 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: What purpose do placement tests serve? #ELTChat Erm to place? ;-) |
| TyKendall |
10:08 PM |
#eltchat i did the online IH tests earlier tonight - it was bizarre, and full of mistakes |
| ayatawel |
10:08 PM |
@ShellTerrell To place a person in the right level of a course or program !#eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:08 PM |
@ShellTerrell I suppose two purposes are: 1. Check grammar/vocab knowledge and 2. Place sts into appropriate level. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:08 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @ELTExperiences Ok so in that example but good tests should test al round #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:08 PM |
@ELTExperiences Ok so in that example but good tests should test al round #ELTChat |
| ayatawel |
10:08 PM |
@dreadnought001 It's mostly done in written format in schools !#eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:09 PM |
Does anyone use the information for placement tests to help students focus on their various strengths & weaknesses? #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:09 PM |
#eltchat skills are almost completely neglected in most placement tests |
| Shaunwilden |
10:09 PM |
@TyKendall the Ih world one? we know it will be fixed in the new website - if you want to email me your thoughts on it #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:09 PM |
The best placement tests I have used and which are now out of print and no longer available used to be the Oxfrom Davies tests #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:09 PM |
Reviews about American TESOL Certification Courses http://t.co/Uf1pRLN #esl #eltchat |
| ljp2010 |
10:09 PM |
#ELTchat Hi everyone, Do you think that the vocab & grammar are given equal weight in PTs? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:09 PM |
So is a poor placement test checking grammar skills and not really focused on communicative competence? #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:09 PM |
@dreadnought001 here in Kuwait they are written test #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:10 PM |
@ShellTerrell I can't as my school's placement test only checks on grammar scores. It is unsuitable but provides a quick gauge. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:10 PM |
@ShellTerrell i tend to do needs analysis, since placement test only seen by management / admin #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:10 PM |
But tthey did not test speaking or writing - you had to design your own separate test items for productove skills #ELTchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:10 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: @Shaunwilden @TyKendall I suppose there are two type of placement tests: one to test grammar knowledge and one to design courses #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:10 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat skills are almost completely neglected in most placement tests - yes though quite a few not online do have speaking |
| ShellTerrell |
10:10 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: The best placement tests I have used and which are now out of print and no longer available used to be the Oxfrom Davies tests #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:11 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Any other commercially produced tests which you have used? #ELTchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:11 PM |
@TyKendall which skills ? #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:11 PM |
#eltchat at old school placement test was oxford one I think + speaking + writing section. was mostly accurate for levels |
| ShellTerrell |
10:11 PM |
@Shaunwilden Yes but I was also told they can help teachers work on specific skills their students need help with #Eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:11 PM |
Any other commercially produced tests which you have used? #ELTchat |
| TyKendall |
10:11 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat ok shaun! it was mostly rather vague things even for a native speaker, although at least one sentence was bizarre |
| sandymillin |
10:12 PM |
@ELTExperiences whole thing took about an hour for adults, kids one depended on age and was done by YL teacher #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:12 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat in all my 4 long years (!) of ELT exp, have never seen a test with reading/listening too |
| sandymillin |
10:12 PM |
#eltchat in all my 4 long years (!) of ELT exp, have never seen a test with reading/listening too |
| dreadnought001 |
10:12 PM |
@ShellTerrell we only get results but don't see papers. Would be helpful if we did! #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:12 PM |
@sandymillin that sounds good. I know at my school YLs get a quick grammar test and adults get a more extensive placement test. #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:12 PM |
#eltchat does ANY placement test include all four skills? |
| lclandfield |
10:13 PM |
Checking in from Brazil, taking a quick peek at #Eltchat. |
| sandymillin |
10:13 PM |
@ELTExperiences sounds like a good idea, but how would you go about it? wouldn't it be more like needs analysis? #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:13 PM |
@sandymillin Hi Sandy am slowly on my way to Brno for the conference there this weekend :-) #ELTChat |
| ljp2010 |
10:13 PM |
#ELTchat @TyKendall we do a piece of writing and an interview in ours, no reading aside from the multi-choice questions tho |
| sandymillin |
10:13 PM |
@dreadnought001 we don't even get results! just told that students are in our class #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:13 PM |
In the US, the placement tests check writing, listening, speaking, etc #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:13 PM |
Why not provide a customised placement test focused on learners in the classroom rather than one which gauges grammar? #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:13 PM |
@sandymillin Actually in the only time I ever did UK summer school the test there had a listening part #ELTChat |
| lclandfield |
10:14 PM |
My question for this chat. Do you think it would be desirable to have a universal placement test if this were possible? #Eltchat |
| jorech |
10:14 PM |
Too often, placement tests are used to sort , which breeds preconceived expectations #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:14 PM |
Good question! RT @TyKendall: #eltchat are most written tests still multiple choice? |
| TyKendall |
10:14 PM |
#eltchat are most written tests still multiple choice? |
| ShellTerrell |
10:14 PM |
I've done that too! RT @ljp2010: #ELTchat we do a piece of writing & an interview, no reading aside from the multi-choice questions tho |
| ELTExperiences |
10:14 PM |
@sandymillin perhaps a needs analysis is a form of personal placement test in one sense. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:14 PM |
Teachers should be involved in placement testing and be allowed to see results #ELTchat so they can analyse areas of weakness |
| dreadnought001 |
10:14 PM |
At our uni, the test is reasonably comprehensive - has grammar, listening and speaking #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:15 PM |
@lclandfield I am in two minds abt 'universal' tests Lindsay #Eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:15 PM |
@lclandfield I don't think a universal PT would be suitable, too many variables and nationalities. #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:15 PM |
@lclandfield Universal you mean the same test across the globe? #ELTChat |
| ilmunita |
10:15 PM |
#ELTChat Placement test where I work has grammar, vocabulary, reading and writing (with a post test interview) but no true listening. |
| teflgeek |
10:15 PM |
#ELTChat I think you have to remember what a placement test is for - it's not a learning tool it's a business tool |
| TyKendall |
10:15 PM |
#eltchat problem with multi-choice is ss can guess, skews the results if they have a lucky streak |
| ShellTerrell |
10:15 PM |
RT @lclandfield: My question for this chat. Do you think it would be desirable to have a universal placement test if this were possible? #Eltchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:15 PM |
@ELTExperiences i think most of PTs online checking grammar skills not communicative competence ! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:15 PM |
@ELTExperiences true - but wouldn't classes be incredibly mixed level w/o placement tests? especially in large schools #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:15 PM |
RT @jorech: Too often, placement tests are used to sort , which breeds preconceived expectations #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:15 PM |
How do you use placement tests to help your learners throughout the year or do you? #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:16 PM |
@lclandfield isn't being a universal placement test kind of the aim of a lot of the ones which are marketed? is that what you mean?#Eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:16 PM |
RT @lclandfield: @Marisa_C So am I. A universal test feels like it would be too restrictive. #ELTchat > Exactly - blanket theory |
| ShellTerrell |
10:16 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @TyKendall: #eltchat i've worked in places that even with placement tests classes still end up mixed level > money talks! |
| padgets |
10:16 PM |
#ELTChat Hi everyone my name is SHaron and I am a HS ELL science teacher we use the I-ELDA Iowa English Langauge Development Assessment |
| lclandfield |
10:16 PM |
@Marisa_C So am I. A universal test feels like it would be too restrictive. #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:16 PM |
@jorech This sounds like an interesting point, what preconceived expectations? #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:16 PM |
A tweet from a learner - RT @PrettyButWise: i think most of PTs online checking grammar skills not communicative competence ! #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:16 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat i've worked in places that even with placement tests classes still end up mixed level > money talks! |
| sandymillin |
10:16 PM |
@TyKendall we had multiple choice grammar, then 3 topics of which SS choose 2 to write paragraphs about #eltchat |
| TyKendall |
10:16 PM |
#eltchat i've worked in places that even with placement tests classes still end up mixed level > money talks! |
| ShellTerrell |
10:16 PM |
@dreadnought001 In my institutes we got writing samples, etc. #ELTChat |
| lclandfield |
10:16 PM |
RT @TyKendall: are most written tests still multiple choice? I'm not sure... but with digitalised tests they will be so even more. #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:17 PM |
@ShellTerrell for me, a placement test has always been a pre-class thing, purely to get SS put into the right groups #ELTchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:17 PM |
@TyKendall online yeah PTs still multiple choice ! #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:17 PM |
@sandymillin @lclandfield which is the aim of coursebooks in some respects. You can't predict emergent language. #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:18 PM |
But are we using Placement Tests based upon Native Speaker norms and less on ELF communication? #ELTChat |
| education_world |
10:18 PM |
That's a great question. RT @ShellTerrell: What purpose do placement tests serve? #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:18 PM |
@TyKendall lucky streaks can be a problem, but that's why you have the interview / writing #eltchat |
| TyKendall |
10:19 PM |
#eltchat @ELTExperiences i don't think there's anything wrong with basing it on native-speaker norms |
| w3ightless |
10:19 PM |
“@ShellTerrell: What purpose do placement tests serve? #ELTChat” & maybe even more importantly- where do they lead us? |
| lclandfield |
10:19 PM |
@ELTExperiences @sandymillin Yes, it is. But if there was one placement test 4 everyone then the syllabi could get even more fixed. #ELTchat |
| padgets |
10:19 PM |
#ELTChat for me placement tests give me a snapshot of abilities so I know where to start to make content accessable |
| ShellTerrell |
10:19 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: But are we using Placement Tests based upon Native Speaker norms and less on ELF communication? #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:19 PM |
@TyKendall That's been the case too but usually various proficiencies in skills. Some good at listening, others at writing, etc #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:20 PM |
@padgets welcome to #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:20 PM |
#ELTChat @sandymillin - same here. More for guidance than complete accuracy |
| Marisa_C |
10:20 PM |
If you are testing students for placing in Exam Classes, have you ever used the exam itself (e,g, FCE) as a placement instrument? #eltchat |
| jurylady |
10:20 PM |
RT @lclandfield: My question for this chat. Do you think it would be desirable to have a universal placement test if this were possible? #Eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:20 PM |
RT @PrettyButWise: ok , let's move to the length , do u think timing 1 minute / question is correct ? #eltchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:20 PM |
ok , let's move to the length , do u think timing 1 minute / question is correct ? #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:20 PM |
@lclandfield @sandymillin but why do we want a static syllabi? "Out of intense chaos intense simplicity emerges" (Churchill) #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:20 PM |
Great question! RT @w3ightless: Where do placement tests lead us? #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:20 PM |
@lclandfield @ELTExperiences don't think a fixed syllabus is ever a desirable outcome! #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:21 PM |
@ELTExperiences @TyKendall I think if you're not going to base it on native speaker norms, you'd need a pretty strong corpus #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:21 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat @Marisa_C i've used past papers as a placement test before > ANd has it worked? |
| jurylady |
10:21 PM |
RT @jorech: Too often, placement tests are used to sort , which breeds preconceived expectations #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:21 PM |
#eltchat @Marisa_C i've used past papers as a placement test before |
| ELTExperiences |
10:21 PM |
@TyKendall but the majority of English speakers are non-natives and a native normative variety is unsuitable. #ELTChat |
| padgets |
10:21 PM |
@sandymillin #ELTChat thank you :) |
| Shaunwilden |
10:21 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: have you ever used the exam itself (e,g, FCE) as a placement instrument? #eltchat - yes we sued to do that |
| padgets |
10:21 PM |
#ELTChat we do nto have time limits on the I-ELDA |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:22 PM |
Hi there all, pllacement tests need to be integrated into the needs analysis in my opinion - one in the same #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:22 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat @Marisa_C - when in doubt we give target level exam writing tasks. That's usually a good indicator > agree |
| sandymillin |
10:22 PM |
@Marisa_C i think (not sure) that my school gave them 1 or 2 sections of exam if SS wanted to be in exam class #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
10:22 PM |
#ELTChat @Marisa_C - when in doubt we give target level exam writing tasks. That's usually a good indicator |
| ELTExperiences |
10:22 PM |
@sandymillin @TyKendall perhaps a learner Corpus (in school, exam based, etc). #ELTChat |
| padgets |
10:22 PM |
#ELTChat there are so many ways to assess a standardized test for me is just one tool |
| ShellTerrell |
10:22 PM |
RT @w3ightless: if we don't give them ownership why do we use the placement test? Other than to categorize? right... #eltchat |
| TyKendall |
10:22 PM |
@ELTExperiences #eltchat not sure i agree with that, this is only disputed with English, any other languag… (cont) http://t.co/5STZ2dP |
| Shaunwilden |
10:22 PM |
@Marisa_C From the point of view of showing how much work the sts still has to do yes :-) #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:22 PM |
@ELTExperiences sometimes i feel it's less #eltchat |
| padgets |
10:23 PM |
#ELTChat for me google translate and Proloquo and TransAct and talking worksheets are part of my making content accessable |
| ShellTerrell |
10:23 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil Great point! #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:23 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil Good point the two should be together if possible but not always feasible e.g. if it a large university etc #ELTChat |
| jurylady |
10:23 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: Great question! RT @w3ightless: Where do placement tests lead us? #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:23 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: Hi there all, pllacement tests need to be integrated into the needs analysis in my opinion - one in the same #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:23 PM |
@TyKendall but with each language there are varieties and received pronunciation is only spoken by less than 10% UK. #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:23 PM |
I think teachers need to realize even with placement tests language learners will each have various strength & weaknesses #ELTChat |
| w3ightless |
10:23 PM |
RT @jorech: Too often, placement tests are used to sort , which breeds preconceived expectations #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:23 PM |
@Marisa_C #eltchat yes it was a good indication if they didn't have a clue then the class was wrong for them |
| TyKendall |
10:24 PM |
@ELTExperiences #eltchat but RP is only an accent, I'm not sure I'd elevate it to a standard variety of Engli… (cont) http://t.co/eS0dPnb |
| ELTExperiences |
10:24 PM |
@ShellTerrell @jurylady @w3ightless I think placement tests lead towards structured and static lessons and not responsive lessons #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:24 PM |
@TyKendall @ELTExperiences agreed - did a German PT once - only had about 8 paragraphs w/ total of 60 open cloze q's - no clues! #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:25 PM |
@ELTExperiences yes, but the tests aren't based on the pronunciation. there are many grammatical norms across boundaries #ELTChat |
| jurylady |
10:25 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: But are we using Placement Tests based upon Native Speaker norms and less on ELF communication? #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:25 PM |
@Marisa_C C-test? don't know that #ELTchat |
| ALiCe__M |
10:25 PM |
@PrettyButWise Sometimes students R stressed when they 1st arrive so u must take time help them relax otherwise test wnt B accurate #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:25 PM |
I use placemt tests results to help learners establish goals! They plan out what they will do to improve those skills #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:25 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @TyKendall @ELTExperiences Was that a C-test? #ELTchat |
| padgets |
10:26 PM |
#ELTChat our I-ELDA has listening speaking writing and reading |
| ELTExperiences |
10:26 PM |
@sandymillin If a school promotes 'communicative competence' why are we testing grammar and not speaking, pron, etc.? #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:26 PM |
@padgets agree and measure skills of grammar writing and listening but not speaking or communication #eltchat |
| jurylady |
10:26 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: I use placemt tests results to help learners establish goals! They plan out what they will do to improve those skills #ELTChat |
| little_miss_glo |
10:26 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: Hi there all, pllacement tests need to be integrated into the needs analysis in my opinion - one in the same #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:26 PM |
The placement test is only one piece of the puzzle for me & must be coupled with other things like an interview, writing, etc #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:26 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: I use placemt tests results to help learners establish goals! They plan out what they will do to improve those skills #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:27 PM |
@sandymillin trying to find a link for you #ELTchat- definition too long for 140 |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:27 PM |
The curriculums don´t offer the flexibility to accommodate different learning styles, needs etc in most cases academically driven. #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:27 PM |
@sandymillin Agree! I've been fortunate all my institutes have tested listening, spking, reading & writing #ELTChat |
| jorech |
10:27 PM |
@Shaunwilden We tend to have achvmnt expctatns based on entry scores. Low entry scores, Tchrs may not encourage to try again. #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:27 PM |
RT @ALiCe__M: @PrettyButWise Sometimes students R stressed when they 1st arrive so u must take time help them relax otherwise test wnt B accurate #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:27 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @ShellTerrell using PTs to set goals seems like a good idea, but good be seen as invalid if PT only for grammar/vocab #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:27 PM |
@ShellTerrell using PTs to set goals seems like a good idea, but good be seen as invalid if PT only for grammar/vocab #ELTChat |
| ALiCe__M |
10:27 PM |
@ShellTerrell Yes I use them to welcome them +get to know their expectations #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
10:27 PM |
#EltChat @eyespeakbrasil - agree in theory, and for 1-1 students no problem, but not practical when there's only you doing all the testing! |
| TyKendall |
10:28 PM |
#eltchat @ELTExperiences how would that work? writing your own exam? |
| Shaunwilden |
10:28 PM |
RT @jorech: We tend to have achvmnt expctatns based on entry scores. Low entry scores, Tchrs may not encourage to try again. #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:28 PM |
Agree RT @sandymillin: using PTs to set goals seems like a good idea, but invalid if PT only for grammar/vocab #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:28 PM |
Has anyone incorporated a student created placement test before? #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:28 PM |
#ELTChat - does everyone use placement tests graded for difficulty? (i.e easy first, hard last) |
| Shaunwilden |
10:28 PM |
Bottom on the 9th and the yankees need a run might be distracted from #ELTChat for a few minutes #ELTChat |
| w3ightless |
10:28 PM |
@ShellTerrell #ELTChat yes! and this is where UDL & DI and UbD etc. come into play. |
| ShellTerrell |
10:29 PM |
@ELTExperiences That's interesting! I'd like to see that! #ELTChat |
| idsphotography |
10:29 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @TyKendall: #eltchat i've worked in places that even with placement tests classes still end up mixed level > money talks! |
| PrettyButWise |
10:29 PM |
@ALiCe__M but don't u think PTs r measuring skills under any kind of conditions !? #eltchat so u need to limit the time ? |
| Marisa_C |
10:29 PM |
Here is a link which explaing C-Testing - based on the theory that it tests everything #ELTchat http://t.co/eIXio8s |
| ShellTerrell |
10:29 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: Has anyone incorporated a student created placement test before? #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:29 PM |
Good question! RT @Raquel_EFL: Are the Placement tests tested before they are implemented? If so, how is it like? #ELTCHAT |
| teflgeek |
10:29 PM |
#ELTChat @sandymillin @Marisa_C doesn't the "C" stand for "Cloze"? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:29 PM |
@TyKendall once sts finish a course, they could write a test for new arrivals. It would be quite interesting. #ELTChat |
| w3ightless |
10:29 PM |
@ELTExperiences @shellterrell @jurylady #ELTChat unfortunately thats become the status quo. Unnecessary though. There are other ways |
| sandymillin |
10:29 PM |
@ELTExperiences i definitely agree that PT is not perfect for 'comm competence', but at start of schl yr with 300 new SS...? #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:29 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @jorech: We tend to have achvmnt expctatns based on entry scores. Low entry scores, Tchrs may not encourage to try again. #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:30 PM |
#eltchat @hartle placement tests! |
| Shaunwilden |
10:30 PM |
@Raquel_EFL I would hope so but I doubt all are #ELTChat I once had a fascinating conversation with the write… (cont) http://t.co/incpmTj |
| hartle |
10:30 PM |
#eltchat what's the topic? |
| ShellTerrell |
10:30 PM |
@ELTExperiences @jurylady @w3ightless It depends on the teacher. I don't do static lessons but many out there will no matter what #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:30 PM |
@Marisa_C thanks Marisa! #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:30 PM |
@sandymillin this is what my school faces with their YLs in the summer. #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:30 PM |
#eltchat hi everyone, sorry I'm late. Just got in |
| Marisa_C |
10:30 PM |
@teflgeek no it's not a cloze test - HALD words are deleted #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:30 PM |
@w3ightless what do those abbreviations stand for? UDL, DI, UbD #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:31 PM |
RT @padgets: #ELTChat can't placement tests also be PBL such as set up a task and see what the outcome is? |
| padgets |
10:31 PM |
#ELTChat can't placement tests also be PBL such as set up a task and see what the outcome is? |
| ShellTerrell |
10:31 PM |
Anyone help construct a placement test? What special skills are needed to design a placement test? #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:31 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat @hartle placement tests! THnx |
| PrettyButWise |
10:32 PM |
RT @ALiCe__M: @PrettyButWise In my school we take time for oral test, the written test is just a complement. #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:32 PM |
@ELTExperiences What kind of skills or guidelines were you given? #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:32 PM |
Once asked stds to place themselves in levels they thought were best... worked quite well #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:32 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: How many placement tests include speaking, and pronunciation? #eltchat |
| ALiCe__M |
10:32 PM |
@PrettyButWise In my school we take time for oral test, the written test is just a complement. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:32 PM |
@ShellTerrell I haven't constructed a placement test but have written an examination - could be the same I suppose. #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:32 PM |
#eltchat there;s too many abbreviations for my brain |
| PrettyButWise |
10:32 PM |
@ELTExperiences what about asking them to do the PTs they got before having the course ? #eltchat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:32 PM |
How many placement tests include speaking, and pronunciation? #eltchat |
| padgets |
10:32 PM |
#ELTChat I was part of the I-ELDA construction |
| Yohimar |
10:33 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Here is a link which explaing C-Testing - based on the theory that it tests everything #ELTchat http://t.co/iuL8RS3 |
| ELTExperiences |
10:33 PM |
@ShellTerrell I was given various past papers and asked to write questions which were in a similar format. #ELTChat |
| lu_bodeman |
10:33 PM |
Taking a short break to check up on #eltchat Can |
| TyKendall |
10:33 PM |
#eltchat although in my exp. some ss have inflated ideals of their language level! so some danger there! |
| hartle |
10:33 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: @hartle I do that too - putthe onus on the student a little. #eltchat Always gd to let them take a bit of responsibility |
| sandymillin |
10:33 PM |
@hartle did you have many problems with over-ambitious students? what did u tell thm about requirements/demands of each level? #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
10:33 PM |
#ELTChat@eyespeakbrasil All ours do. The spoken component acts as a filter on the written score. |
| ShellTerrell |
10:33 PM |
Sounds ideal! RT @hartle: Once asked stds to place themselves in levels they thought were best... worked quite well #eltchat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:33 PM |
@hartle I do that too - putthe onus on the student a little. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:33 PM |
I've done that before - RT @hartle: Once asked stds to place themselves in levels they thought were best... worked quite well #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:34 PM |
LOL! Or trying to impress their parents RT @TyKendall: #eltchat although in my exp. some ss have inflated ideals of their language level! |
| teflgeek |
10:34 PM |
#ELTChat - our problem not placement tests, but kids who refuse to accept the results because they want to be in same class as their friends |
| ELTExperiences |
10:34 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: Sometimes I find the parents really want the placement test so they can feel their child advanced fr previous yr #ELTChat |
| lu_bodeman |
10:34 PM |
Oops...hit enter by mistake. Anyways, can't stay long so I'm lurking today. Gr8 topic tho. #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:34 PM |
Sometimes I find the parents really want the placement test so they can feel their child advanced fr previous yr #ELTChat |
| ALiCe__M |
10:35 PM |
@ShellTerrell yes, that's often the case with parents and adult learners too, because they make it an ego thing #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:35 PM |
@ELTExperiences That's a really good question! #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:35 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: Sometimes I find the parents really want the placement test so they can feel their child advanced fr previous yr #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:35 PM |
#eltchat as BOTH a teacher and a student, i've never been fond of mixed level classes |
| hartle |
10:35 PM |
#eltchat we often use Oxford Placement tests at uni, but then do activities in first lessons to further monitor plcment |
| ShellTerrell |
10:35 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: Can I ask what the advantages and disadvantages of placing sts into mixed ability classes? #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:35 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: The beginning for a good placement test, is to design the assessment parameters first isn´t it, and work back. #eltchat |
| lu_bodeman |
10:35 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: The beginning for a good placement test, is to design the assessment parameters first isn´t it, and work back. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:35 PM |
@teflgeek good old backwash with placement tests #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:35 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: The beginning for a good placement test, is to design the assessment parameters first isn´t it, and work back. #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:35 PM |
@ELTExperiences Hmmm I'm rather skeptic about that process #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:35 PM |
The beginning for a good placement test, is to design the assessment parameters first isn´t it, and work back. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:35 PM |
Can I ask what the advantages and disadvantages of placing sts into mixed ability classes? #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:36 PM |
@TyKendall @hartle could you explain why? #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:36 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat as BOTH a teacher and a student, i've never been fond of mixed level classes |
| teflgeek |
10:36 PM |
@ELTExperiences #ELTChat is that a bad thing? At least you know what you're aiming for! |
| ShellTerrell |
10:36 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat we often use Oxford Placement tests at uni, but then do activities in first lessons to further monitor plcment |
| PrettyButWise |
10:36 PM |
@teflgeek most of PTs i got through were easy and stable #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:36 PM |
@teflgeek not just a problem with kids! many adults want to be with their friends #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:36 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat as BOTH a teacher and a student, i've never been fond of mixed level classes |
| ShellTerrell |
10:36 PM |
If you have mixed ability classes you have to be careful with pairing Ss, advanced can't always be w less advanced #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:36 PM |
@ShellTerrell me too, I wasn't given much support and the examining body was checking my work I guess. #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:36 PM |
I like mixed level classes #eltchat |
| padgets |
10:36 PM |
#ELTchat I have both native and non-native speakers I find a way to make content t accessable - an i do not speak Spanish |
| ELTExperiences |
10:37 PM |
@teflgeek but I guess it limits creativity and promotes structure. #ELTChat |
| padgets |
10:37 PM |
#ELTChat yes run the risk of me not understanding what they say if it is appropriate or not but so far in 8 yrs it has worked |
| ShellTerrell |
10:37 PM |
RT @padgets: #ELTchat I have both native and non-native speakers I find a way to make content t accessable - an i do not speak Spanish |
| sandymillin |
10:37 PM |
how many of you have taken PTs in other languages? did you feel they did their job? i've done 2 in german & level was right 4 me #eltchat |
| hartle |
10:37 PM |
Level is in any case a very fluid thing. #eltchat, depends on so many factors |
| ShellTerrell |
10:38 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil Great topic! Maybe suggest it here, ELTCHat.com #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:38 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: I´d love to have a chat one day about mixed level teaching #eltchat first time of seen it mentioned here on twitter. |
| PrettyButWise |
10:38 PM |
@sandymillin i just took them in english and find them easy but don't cover all skills #eltchat |
| hartle |
10:38 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: @TyKendall @hartle ...why? #ELTChat for teachers means 3 classes in one at times, for learners over or understretching |
| ELTExperiences |
10:38 PM |
@sandymillin I done a placement test for French about 10 years ago and it placed me into the correct class. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:38 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat as BOTH a teacher and a student, i've never been fond of mixed level classes <me neither |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:38 PM |
I´d love to have a chat one day about mixed level teaching #eltchat first time of seen it mentioned here on twitter. |
| sandymillin |
10:39 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat only really meant to sort stds into classes <that's what I thought! |
| teflgeek |
10:39 PM |
#ELTChat @TyKendall not all SS like them either - feel they're being short changed |
| ShellTerrell |
10:39 PM |
RT @sssSaMar: I am wondering about a useful test to use it this term. This is my first academic year #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:39 PM |
Agree! RT @hartle: Level is in any case a very fluid thing. #eltchat, depends on so many factors |
| hartle |
10:39 PM |
RT @PrettyButWise: @sandymillin i just took them in english ... #eltchat only really meant to sort stds into classes |
| sssSaMar |
10:39 PM |
I am wondering about a useful test to use it this term. This is my first academic year #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:39 PM |
RT @hartle: Level is in any case a very fluid thing. #eltchat, depends on so many factors |
| hartle |
10:40 PM |
#eltchat I recently had highly motivated false beginner in B1-B2 class... Begged to stay and made loads of progress |
| ShellTerrell |
10:40 PM |
RT @lclandfield: #ELTchat. There were times when I administered placement tests that I wondered if just a chat with student wouldn't be enough. |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:40 PM |
@sandymillin does class dynamics come in to this at all ? #eltchat |
| lclandfield |
10:40 PM |
#ELTchat. There were times when I administered placement tests that I wondered if just a chat with student wouldn't be enough. |
| ELTExperiences |
10:40 PM |
@hartle @TyKendall That's the disadvantage of mixed classes but advantages could be scaffolding emergent language. #ELTChat |
| eslbrazil |
10:40 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @ShellTerrell: Sometimes I find the parents really want the placement test so they can feel their child advanced fr previous yr #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:40 PM |
@ELTExperiences #eltchat mixed levels can cause tension, resentment, boredom, frustration > more trouble than its worth! |
| hartle |
10:41 PM |
Agree RT @lclandfield: #ELTchat. There were times when I I wondered if just a chat with student wouldn't be enough. |
| ShellTerrell |
10:41 PM |
@lclandfield At previous institute in Germany we placed thru chatting w students & short piece of writing #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:41 PM |
@hartle one of the target of the PTs , mother tongue language of those designe the PTs #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:41 PM |
@lclandfield I remember after doing the BULATS Test in Korea for 4 months, I could guess the level within 2 minutes of discussion. #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:41 PM |
#eltchat@ELTExperiences scaffolding is a nice THEORY but rarely works well in practice, presumes all ss WANT TO SCAFFOLD, they don't |
| lclandfield |
10:41 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil I think there was a past #ELTchat on mixed ability if ur interested. Check the website. Plus I wrote a book on it too :-) |
| ljp2010 |
10:41 PM |
#ELTchat well if we follow a real world model, people will talk to someone with less/more ability if they're interested in them... |
| sssSaMar |
10:41 PM |
What about tracking students progress before and after the course. any suggestions?. #Eltchat |
| sandymillin |
10:42 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil only 4 SS at proficiency level in PT probably means a class of 4, regardless of the group dynamics #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:42 PM |
RT @teflgeek: @Marisa_C #ELTChat - which comes first the system or the students? |
| teflgeek |
10:42 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTChat - which comes first the system or the students? |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:42 PM |
@ShellTerrell that´s what i do, and then get them to write a paragraph about themself #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:42 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Placement tests are seen to be PART of Needs Analysis for course design - how far do results affect your Syllabuses? #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:42 PM |
@TyKendall I think a balance has to be struck between scaffolding and more structured conversation. #ELTChat Scaffolding isn't a theory. |
| lclandfield |
10:42 PM |
@ELTExperiences My feelings exactly. This would be an interesting area to research - the tester's intuitions. #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:42 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil how much class dynamics comes into it depends on SS:TT ratio #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:42 PM |
@lclandfield We were able to ask about their English habits as well & how they learned it which is what really helped placed them #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:42 PM |
Placement tests are seen to be PART of Needs Analysis for course design - how far do results affect your Syllabuses? #ELTchat |
| teflgeek |
10:42 PM |
#ELTChat @lclandfield not with mixed nationalities - I've known learners with strong structural knowledge but very low speaking ability |
| ShellTerrell |
10:43 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil I prefer that system #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:43 PM |
@lclandfield agreed - often just a chat gives you a fair idea, but good to back up with results on paper, esp 4 skewed profiles #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:43 PM |
@teflgeek hey you re not going to draw me into a chicken or the egg first argument - you deal with the cards you have in ur hands #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:43 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat @lclandfield not with mixed nationalities - I've known learners with strong structural knowledge but very low speaking ability |
| TyKendall |
10:43 PM |
#eltchat it is a theory! not all more able students are prepared, or willing to scaffold less able students! human nature can be selfish!!! |
| ELTExperiences |
10:43 PM |
@lclandfield this is the same for the marking of written tests now when I mark various examinations. #ELTChat |
| padgets |
10:43 PM |
#eLTChat use an Ipad app converse, we use google translate we use books in native languages, we use proloquo, we use Oxofrd Pict Dictionary |
| kalinagoenglish |
10:44 PM |
Don't really think a "quick chat" does the trick. Often at the beginning false "beginners/elem/intermediate" can be 2shy2 spk #ELTchat |
| teflgeek |
10:44 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTChat I just meant if you have a system already in place, then the placement test fits learners into it. |
| sandymillin |
10:44 PM |
@w3ightless thanks for explaining (though think I'm possibly still too tired to understand! #ELTChat |
| ALiCe__M |
10:44 PM |
@teflgeek we do it with mixed nationalities too precisely for that reason #eltchat |
| TyKendall |
10:44 PM |
#eltchat even conceding this point doesn't mean it will materialise in the classroom! |
| w3ightless |
10:44 PM |
RT @padgets: #ELTChat for me google translate and Proloquo and TransAct and talking worksheets are part of my making content accessable |
| hartle |
10:44 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: @lclandfield We were able to ask about their English habits as well & how they learned it which is what really helped placed them #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:44 PM |
@TyKendall Scaffolding is a principle of language learning. Theory suggests a disjointness between practice. #ELTChat |
| w3ightless |
10:44 PM |
@sandymillin #ELTChat UDL= universal design for learning DI= differentiated instruction UbD= underseanding by design |
| hartle |
10:44 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: how far do results affect your Syllabuses? #ELTchat Depends on course, but usually syllabus half learner half exam centred |
| ShellTerrell |
10:45 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat if the learners are dictating the course goals and syllabus, then you don't need a placement test |
| Shaunwilden |
10:45 PM |
@teflgeek True but then dont most school need the system in place? #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:45 PM |
@ELTExperiences @lclandfield on the other hand, placement based on chat requires tester to have quite a lot of experience #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:45 PM |
RT @teflgeek: @Marisa_C #ELTChat if the learners are dictating the course goals and syllabus, then you don't need a placement test |
| ALiCe__M |
10:45 PM |
@kalinagoenglish yes, that's why u must take the necessary time #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:45 PM |
RT @padgets: #ELTChat for me google translate and Proloquo and TransAct and talking worksheets are part of my making content accessable |
| little_miss_glo |
10:45 PM |
RT @kalinagoenglish: Don't really think a "quick chat" does the trick. Often at the beginning false "beginners/elem/intermediate" can be 2shy2 spk #ELTchat |
| teflgeek |
10:45 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTChat if the learners are dictating the course goals and syllabus, then you don't need a placement test |
| padgets |
10:45 PM |
#ELTChat we use audiobooks in native languages we use think pair share, we use youtube videos in native langauges |
| Marisa_C |
10:46 PM |
@sandymillin why not? #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:46 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: Very good question: RT @TyKendall: #eltchat is there any point in placements tests if they are ignored? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:46 PM |
Very good question: RT @TyKendall: #eltchat is there any point in placements tests if they are ignored? |
| padgets |
10:46 PM |
nice to chat with you all time to go hope to come back next week take care and have a great rest of week :0) #ELTChat |
| pschooltoolbox |
10:46 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: If you have mixed ability classes you have to be careful with pairing Ss, advanced can't always be w less advanced #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:46 PM |
@Marisa_C old school - syllabus=decided b4 SS arrive, new school=syllabus rolling based on SS in class. PT doesn't come into it #ELTchat |
| Marisa_C |
10:46 PM |
Correcting name mentioned earlier - the Alan Davies OUP placements tests #ELTchat |
| harrisonmike |
10:46 PM |
Just chipping in a mo, funding in UK FE means that you have a qual aim for ur sts, so getting them in at the right level is KEY #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:46 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat But dont you need to know the starting lvl? |
| teflgeek |
10:46 PM |
@lclandfield #ELTchat I'm just think of those summer school classes with the Italians and the Japanese... |
| TyKendall |
10:46 PM |
#eltchat is there any point in placements tests if they are ignored? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:46 PM |
@TyKendall I agree but a one club golf bag is neither better than a full set of golf clubs: best to have eclectic mix of techniques #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:46 PM |
@teflgeek I think you are right - but not all settings work like this - not our school for example #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:47 PM |
@Shaunwilden #ELTChat - Absolutely! Can't keep learners paying for five years if there aren't levels to move up to! |
| hartle |
10:47 PM |
#eltchat quick chat + writing ok for experienced raters, but large organisations need placement tests for efficiency, costs, reliability etc |
| sandymillin |
10:47 PM |
@Marisa_C well, only comes into it as far as placing SS in correct class is concerned. i never see results - only get new SS #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:47 PM |
Does your institution use the same placement tests every yr? Does this make it easier to gear improvement? #ELTChat |
| LYRichardson |
10:47 PM |
@ShellTerrell Homework: How about students doing what's expected/required?? American students R pampered too much. #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:47 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @Marisa_C old school - syllabus=decided b4 SS arrive, new school=syllabus rolling based on SS in class. PT doesn't come into it #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
10:48 PM |
@w3ightless thank yoU! #ELTChat |
| little_miss_glo |
10:48 PM |
@sandymillin #ELTChat that's true. Sometimes I'll see a student struggle, ask to see the test and THEN see that he wasn't placed properly |
| Marisa_C |
10:48 PM |
@hartle good points - if you are dealing with masses of students you need different placement instruments #eltchat |
| w3ightless |
10:48 PM |
@sandymillin Ubd- http://t.co/9Sw2zhB DI- http://t.co/xCW36Ej UDL- http://t.co/eDxz6FK #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:48 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTChat I was thinking more of 1-1 / small group teaching |
| ELTExperiences |
10:48 PM |
@ShellTerrell my institution uses the same test each year for YLs. Some sts that returned done better. Bit embarrassing. #ELTChat |
| lclandfield |
10:48 PM |
@teflgeek Yes... When I had those kinds of courses in Cambridge the placement test actually wasn't too bad. #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:48 PM |
@teflgeek :-) damn right but only five years, you need to change your system ;-) #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:48 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat quick chat + writing ok for experienced raters, but large organisations need placement tests for efficiency, costs, reliability etc |
| PrettyButWise |
10:48 PM |
@sssSaMar u can apply PTs u applied before starting the course and after #eltchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:49 PM |
@ShellTerrell some yeah use the same every yr !! No , if PTs well designed they r stable and never become easier #eltchat |
| kalinagoenglish |
10:49 PM |
can't stay but here's co. I've used 4 objectivity + was happy w/ - not related 2publisher MONDIALE - #ELTchat http://ow.ly/6o9K6 |
| sandymillin |
10:49 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat any point in placements tests if they are ignored? <not ignored, but only used for 5 mins it takes 2 assign class |
| ELTExperiences |
10:49 PM |
@ShellTerrell Hahaha #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:49 PM |
@ELTExperiences i don't believe you managed to sneak this into this char #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:49 PM |
#eltchat i knew we wouldnt be able to have an eltchat without dogme being mentioned! hahah what u think shaun :-P |
| ShellTerrell |
10:49 PM |
@ELTExperiences Now you're starting trouble LOL #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:49 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: What would a Dogme-related Placement Test look like? #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:49 PM |
@teflgeek well in that case you could do a proper needs analysis incl pt #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:49 PM |
What would a Dogme-related Placement Test look like? #ELTChat |
| LYRichardson |
10:50 PM |
@efl101 Commit exclusively: WHAT demands other than learning? Work, Fun, Television #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
10:50 PM |
@Shaunwilden #ELTChat If you include primary, we have almost 20! |
| ELTExperiences |
10:50 PM |
@TyKendall I couldn't help it with the last 10 minutes left. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:50 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat quick chat + writing ok for experienced raters, but large organisations need placement tests for efficiency, costs, reliability etc |
| hartle |
10:50 PM |
RT @little_miss_glo: @sandymillin #ELTChat that's true. .. he wasn't placed properly.. Plcment not infallible and misplaced stds cn move |
| Marisa_C |
10:50 PM |
RT @kalinagoenglish: I've used 4 objectivity + was happy w/ - not related 2publisher MONDIALE - #ELTchat http://ow.ly/6o9K6 |
| MrJFloresEDU |
10:50 PM |
RT @lclandfield: #ELTchat. There were times when I administered placement tests that I wondered if just a chat with student wouldn't be enough. |
| Marisa_C |
10:51 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: Helpfulness of placement test results depends on how they are used by the institute, teacher, learner, & parents #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:51 PM |
@TyKendall I am trying to stay calm #ELTChat |
| little_miss_glo |
10:51 PM |
@hartle #ELTchat agreed. But shouldn't the teacher at least have a look at PT? His opinion should count, he'll b working with student! |
| teflgeek |
10:51 PM |
@Marisa_C #ELTChat - exactly |
| ShellTerrell |
10:51 PM |
In the end, the helpfulness of placement test results depends on how they are used by the institute, teacher, learner, & parents #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:51 PM |
@hartle exactly - even if placement tests only work for 80% of SS (hopefully more!) that's still a lot of SS in the RIGHT place! #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:51 PM |
#eltchat it's quickly becoming a dirty word, the "D" word! |
| Shaunwilden |
10:51 PM |
@teflgeek Now that's more like it #ELTChat |
| sssSaMar |
10:52 PM |
Ss will take a PTs applied by the center but I am not sure if they will be divided according to levels or will be mixed as usual #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:52 PM |
@Marisa_C What can I say, I had a great CELTA tutor ;-) #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:52 PM |
If you use generic placement test does that not imply your methodology is the same as your competitor, I would think so. #eltchat |
| bethcagnol |
10:52 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: RT @ELTExperiences: What would a Dogme-related Placement Test look like? #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:52 PM |
@willycard I guess it would emerge to be quite chaotic. #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
10:52 PM |
Oh bloody hell we almost made it to the end as well! #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:52 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat i have a theory that no eltchat can occur without dogme ! |
| ShellTerrell |
10:53 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @eyespeakbrasil generic placement test - not at all, just that you bought the same placement test! writing/interview diff. anyway #eltchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:53 PM |
@teflgeek and to differentiate them, we need to assess grammar knowledge #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
10:53 PM |
@eyespeakbrasil generic placement test - not at all, just that you bought the same placement test! writing/interview diff. anyway #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:53 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat - ultimately, placement tests are not designed to give information about students, but to differentiate between them. |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:53 PM |
RT @willycard: RT @ELTExperiences: What would a Dogme-related Placement Test look like? #ELTChat It wouldn't :-) Agreed!! |
| ShellTerrell |
10:53 PM |
RT @eyespeakbrasil: If you use generic placement test does that not imply your methodology is the same as your competitor, I would think so. #eltchat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:53 PM |
@TyKendall no ! I think it would be a mistake to ignore them #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
10:53 PM |
#ELTChat - ultimately, placement tests are not designed to give information about students, but to differentiate between them. |
| PrettyButWise |
10:54 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: In the end, the helpfulness of placement test results depends on how they are used by the institute, teacher, learner, & parents #ELTChat |
| teflgeek |
10:54 PM |
@ELTExperiences #ELTChat and everything else that goes along with it.....! |
| ELTExperiences |
10:54 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat in some institutions placement tests are just a formality, other factors are at work when placing ss |
| lclandfield |
10:54 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat - ultimately, placement tests are not designed to give information about students, but to differentiate between them. |
| ShellTerrell |
10:54 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat in some institutions placement tests are just a formality, other factors are at work when placing ss |
| PerdyP |
10:54 PM |
@sandymillin @ShellTerrell #ELTChat Not serious? I do rolling planning, following diagnostics, but not on hitherto totally unassessed s's!! |
| hartle |
10:54 PM |
RT @little_miss_glo: @hartle #ELTchat agreed. ..With small groups of course but we place 2,500 stds at one time |
| TyKendall |
10:54 PM |
#eltchat in some institutions placement tests are just a formality, other factors are at work when placing ss |
| little_miss_glo |
10:55 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat in some institutions placement tests are just a formality, other factors are at work when placing ss // class size? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:55 PM |
How could a placement test assess grammar awareness and is this any different to grammar knowledge? #ELTChat |
| lclandfield |
10:56 PM |
RT @TyKendall #eltchat in some institutions placement tests are just a formality, other factors are at work when placing ss // Yes, I agree |
| ShellTerrell |
10:56 PM |
@ELTExperiences Ive had students know their grammar perfectly but can't follow it in their writing or speaking or understand others #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:56 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @ELTExperiences Well good placement tests shoud test in same way you teach - not multiple choice etc #ELTChat |
| PrettyButWise |
10:56 PM |
RT @teflgeek: #ELTChat - ultimately, placement tests are not designed to give information about students, but to differentiate between them. |
| Marisa_C |
10:56 PM |
@ELTExperiences Well good placement tests shoud test in same way you teach - not multiple choice etc #ELTChat |
| TyKendall |
10:56 PM |
#eltchat @little_miss_glo class size / student demands / parental demands / MONEY! |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:56 PM |
I´m from the create your own school of placement philosophy #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
10:56 PM |
RT @ELTExperiences: How could a placement test assess grammar awareness and is this any different to grammar knowledge? #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:57 PM |
@ELTExperiences why? #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:57 PM |
#eltchat plcment needs to be part of system with needs analysis etc. Here's my Needs analysis Prezi http://t.co/xUZI0XN |
| little_miss_glo |
10:57 PM |
RT @TyKendall: #eltchat @little_miss_glo class size / student demands / parental demands / MONEY! -> Hard to please everyone! |
| ELTExperiences |
10:57 PM |
@Marisa_C top-down or bottom-up testing? I would really love to try student self-created placement tests. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:57 PM |
but such tests costly and difficult to administer by large 'industrial' type institutions which prefer mechanised marking #ELTchat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:58 PM |
@TyKendall good night and thx for the lively debate. ;0) #ELTChat |
| hartle |
10:58 PM |
#ELTChat YOu can know something without being aware of the knowledge |
| TyKendall |
10:58 PM |
#eltchat ok people i'm off before dark forces attempt to get me to write the summary! see y'all next week! :-) |
| little_miss_glo |
10:58 PM |
#ELTchat could we then think about an objective test and then chatting with random sample to make sure everyone's placed correctly? |
| ELTExperiences |
10:58 PM |
@Marisa_C it would be more suitable and appropriate for the learners with a learner-based curriculum. #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
10:59 PM |
Thanks all - very interesting #eltchat |
| TyKendall |
10:59 PM |
@Shaunwilden #eltchat you'll find my email box full > return to sender :-) |
| Marisa_C |
10:59 PM |
@ELTExperiences :-) #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
10:59 PM |
@ELTExperiences Well just let them roam around the room then and sit next to whoever they think they fit #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
10:59 PM |
Good distinction between knowledge and awareness - RT @hartle: #ELTChat YOu can know something without being aware of the knowledge |
| Shaunwilden |
10:59 PM |
@TyKendall too late we emailed you ;-) #ELTChat |
| ShellTerrell |
11:00 PM |
RT @Misskokler: they usually serve to test what kids can't do (unfortunately ) #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
11:00 PM |
@Marisa_C @ELTExperiences #ELTChat I'm trying get my head around the idea of sts creating their own placemen… (cont) http://t.co/Vwwl1gh |
| lclandfield |
11:00 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @ELTExperiences Well just let them roam around the room then and sit next to whoever they think they fit #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
11:00 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat different situations need diferent approaches, what is important is learner needs awareness and flexibility |
| ELTExperiences |
11:00 PM |
@Marisa_C has it? I would love to see this research. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
11:00 PM |
#eltpis this week is 'things in the classroom' http://t.co/BbPKt02 tweet ur pics w/ hashtag like so wp.me/p18yiK-8y #eltchat #efl #esl #elt |
| ShellTerrell |
11:00 PM |
Thanks everyone for another great #ELTChat See you next Wednesday :-) |
| Marisa_C |
11:00 PM |
@ELTExperiences not joking - it's been done as a research project #ELTChat |
| hartle |
11:00 PM |
#eltchat different situations need diferent approaches, what is important is learner needs awareness and flexibility |
| ELTExperiences |
11:00 PM |
@Marisa_C that's great. I was thinking about closed groups to create a test before they leave before the next cohort next week. #ELTchat |
| ShellTerrell |
11:00 PM |
RT @little_miss_glo: #ELTchat could we then think about an objective test and then chatting with random sample to make sure everyone's placed correctly? |
| PrettyButWise |
11:00 PM |
thank u all , GN it's 21 GMT in Kuwait . Great chat , can't miss it every week , c u next week . LOVE #eltchat |
| Marisa_C |
11:01 PM |
@Shaunwilden Students can't create their OWN placement test - Martin means for the next class - but don't agree with this #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
11:01 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C I am trying to say that sts write the placement test which would be used for the next cohort of sts. #ELTChat |
| hartle |
11:01 PM |
#eltchat thnx everyone for more food for thought. Night night |
| lclandfield |
11:01 PM |
Thanks #ELTchat. Gotta go now. |
| Shaunwilden |
11:02 PM |
@ELTExperiences @Marisa_C No nor do I - they can create some tests for sure but not placement #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
11:02 PM |
@ELTExperiences And you would actually use such a test when you are a professional teacher with a Masters? Again I will ask Why? #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
11:03 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C I guess I am trying to push too much with the "Learner-based curriculum". Ohh well, it seemed a good idea. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
11:03 PM |
@ELTExperiences I can see how it would benefit the class writing it for revision purposes but no one else #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
11:03 PM |
bye thanks #eltchat |
| Notyetlanguage |
11:03 PM |
RT @ShellTerrell: RT @ELTExperiences: What would a Dogme-related Placement Test look like? #ELTChat |
| eyespeakbrasil |
11:03 PM |
I think a spoken placement test, that is recorded, compared to a teacher, and marked would be interesting #eltchat |
| teflgeek |
11:03 PM |
thanks all #ELTChat! See you next time! |
| ELTExperiences |
11:04 PM |
@Shaunwilden @Marisa_C totally agree. I guess there's a distinction between teaching and testing. #ELTChat |
| Marisa_C |
11:04 PM |
@ELTExperiences The problem is that it sounds like an attractive idea Martin #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
11:04 PM |
@ELTExperiences @Marisa_C It's all well and good being LC but there are times when our expertise as tchrs is needed #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
11:05 PM |
Well guess we're done for another #ELTChat thanks all |
| Marisa_C |
11:05 PM |
@ELTExperiences Absolutely - that's why testing requires so much expertise! #ELTChat |
| ELTExperiences |
11:05 PM |
@Marisa_C In my opinion, I would ask sts to work together in groups to see how they would improve the placement test. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
11:05 PM |
#eltpics this week is 'things in the classroom' http://t.co/BbPKt02 tweet ur pics w/ hashtag like so wp.me/p18yiK-8y #eltchat #efl #esl #elt |
| sandymillin |
11:05 PM |
2 x #infiniteeltideas for these 2 weeks: El Empleo http://t.co/oVIbXDD & Postcrossing http://t.co/hFhJcmG #eltchat #efl #esl #elt |
| little_miss_glo |
11:06 PM |
Thanks everybody for a great #ELTchat ... lots to think about! |
| ELTExperiences |
11:06 PM |
Thanks all for the lively debate with #ELTChat. I learnt some really interesting points with placement tests and about my own opinions. |
| Marisa_C |
11:06 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Well guess we're done for another #ELTChat thanks all > and thanks th @ShellTerrell and you for being here tonight |
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