rliberni |
2:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists |
Shaunwilden |
2:01 PM |
Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists |
hartle |
2:02 PM |
Hi everyone #eltchat |
FarnhamCastle |
2:02 PM |
RT @rliberni: Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists |
sandymillin |
2:02 PM |
Had great trouble planning an experimental lexical approach lesson for conditional-type sentences. @fionamau really helped me! #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:04 PM |
RT @rliberni: Don't forget the hashtag #eltchat at the end of your tweets otherwise we'll miss your pearls :-) > yeah ^^ |
BobK99 |
2:04 PM |
Cd we kick off the #eltchat by defining terms? Are we just talking about vocab? |
Shaunwilden |
2:04 PM |
Are we all happy with what lexical grammar is? #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:04 PM |
RT @rliberni: Your moderators today are myself and @Shaunwilden pls ask us if you have any questions #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:04 PM |
Don't forget the hashtag #eltchat at the end of your tweets otherwise we'll miss your pearls :-) |
esolcourses |
2:05 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: So #eltchat, what do you mean by lexical grammar? #havelittleideawhatitis ] #not100%surewhatitiseither |
BethCagnol |
2:05 PM |
Happy to be present, but might be distant during this #ELTChat . My doctors will B taking an exam at the same time at 13:30. |
harrisonmike |
2:05 PM |
@Shaunwilden No! #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:05 PM |
i'm also unsure of what is meant by lexical grammar... :S #eltchat |
hartle |
2:05 PM |
Mjor prob that crsboks often teach single word lists & stds learn meaning but not use #eltchat |
aClilToClimb |
2:05 PM |
WHere did that come from? I meant home #ELTchat |
harrisonmike |
2:05 PM |
So #eltchat, what do you mean by lexical grammar? #havelittleideawhatitis |
BethCagnol |
2:06 PM |
@Shaunwilden By lexical grammar do we mean things like teaching the pres perfect lexically? Chunking "I have been here for..." #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:06 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-) does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat |
ann_f |
2:06 PM |
lexical grammar: contradiction in terms? #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:06 PM |
Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-) does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:07 PM |
Unf most links seem to be to pdfs when you google #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:07 PM |
@ann_f i don't think there's anything contradiction there. what would the contradiction be exactly in your view? #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:07 PM |
Definition anyone? #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:07 PM |
@Shaunwilden thanks for the link!! #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:07 PM |
@TeachingEnglish was about second conditionals...will upload it to slideshare in a minute #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:07 PM |
@ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:07 PM |
RT @BethCagnol: @Shaunwilden By lexical grammar do we mean things like teaching the pres perfect lexically? Chunking "I have been here for..." #ELTChat |
hartle |
2:07 PM |
RT @hartle: #eltchat lexical grammar everythng that goes with single items: count/uncount, collocation, patterning, semantic prosody etc |
sandymillin |
2:08 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat < lexical approach type stuff? |
sandymillin |
2:08 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-) does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat <good guide |
ann_f |
2:08 PM |
Thanks! RT @sandymillin: @TeachingEnglish was about second conditionals...will upload it to slideshare in a minute #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:09 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-) does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat! Thanks |
teachingenglish |
2:09 PM |
Find chunks, collocations easier to swallow RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat |
hartle |
2:09 PM |
For ex. a st can understand the word "possibilty" but uses it in the wrong way #eltchat |
gknightbkk |
2:10 PM |
Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:10 PM |
would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets like animals for instance #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:10 PM |
is it to do with 'colligations'? another term ;) =the grammar that goes with a word e.g. like + -ing or to+inf but not bare inf #eltchat |
hartle |
2:10 PM |
My stds often say "I have the possibility to go to London" not natural English We don't collocate "have" with "possibility" #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:10 PM |
@sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:10 PM |
Articles on English language teaching from IH Barcelona http://bit.ly/bhg2aj #eltchat #elt #esl #efl #tesl #tefl |
sandymillin |
2:11 PM |
Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:11 PM |
RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets #eltchat |
gknightbkk |
2:11 PM |
Language is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar (Lewis 1993) #eltchat |
hartle |
2:11 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:11 PM |
@ChrisCattaneo good question I have to say I was a bit stumped #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:11 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat Not that I agree with :-) |
sandymillin |
2:11 PM |
@rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat |
hartle |
2:11 PM |
RT @sandymillin: is it to do with 'colligations'? #eltchat not only I thnk: collocation, colligation &semantic prosody |
Shaunwilden |
2:11 PM |
RT @ChrisCattaneo: @sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat Haha what about do they colligate? |
NikkiFortova |
2:11 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:11 PM |
RT @chriscattaneo: @sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:11 PM |
RT @sandymillin: is it to do with 'colligations'? another term ;) =the grammar that goes with a word e.g. like + -ing or to+inf but not bare inf #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:12 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat |
lu_bodeman |
2:12 PM |
Reading over tweets on #eltchat. Can't figure out what lexical grammar is yet |
hartle |
2:12 PM |
@sandymillin I proposed it #eltchat because coursebks tend to focus on single word lists #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:12 PM |
RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) just about to tweet this too! |
sandymillin |
2:12 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar" (Lewis 1993) #eltchat |
hartle |
2:12 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:13 PM |
Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them together? #ELTchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:13 PM |
RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) // haha |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:13 PM |
@Shaunwilden Hi,sorry for being late,my internet sucks tonight,but glad to join #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:13 PM |
RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy |
BobK99 |
2:13 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: "Lang is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar" (Lewis 1993) #eltchat! Gd man, Lewis, bt I'll have to thk abt that |
sandymillin |
2:13 PM |
@hartle so can you rephrase the question a bit? #eltchat think we're all a bit confused! |
rliberni |
2:13 PM |
@hartle can you give us your definition? #eltchat |
hartle |
2:13 PM |
Stds need to know what goes with those single items not just the meaning #eltchat |
hartle |
2:14 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I can see a problelm ... #eltchat teaching in context already gd but stds need more, |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:14 PM |
RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? #ELTchat #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:14 PM |
RT @esolcourses: RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them together? #ELTchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:14 PM |
@lu_bodeman someone posted this link http://is.gd/LqEuJS which you might want to take a look at ;) #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:14 PM |
#eltchat so could one problem be that e.g. in one lesson we focus on present cont. and in another a set of 20 verbs>how to link 2ge more? |
esolcourses |
2:14 PM |
RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them together? #ELTchat |
esolcourses |
2:14 PM |
maybe @thornburyscott's "L is for Michael Lewis" might shed a bit more light? #ELTChat |
gknightbkk |
2:14 PM |
We need to teach lexical chunks that have grammatical info attached to them #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:14 PM |
@hartle I can see a problelm in simply teaching word lists, but I assume most teachers would give them a context, no? #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:14 PM |
RT @barbsaka: RT @StevenHerder: Think you know #iTDi Director @chucksandy? yitzha_sarwono interviews him! http://bit.ly/jg2x9J #ELTchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:15 PM |
@esolcourses @AlexandraKouk isnt that the point, we teach them together? Teaching a single word is pointless as sts cant use it #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:15 PM |
@bethcagnol that's my problem. i'm not sure how to teach grammar lexically...had to experiment 4 recent course - struggled #ELTChat |
esolcourses |
2:15 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: Who thinks there's a split in pedagogy: those who teach grammar "mathematically" and those who teach it lexically? #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:15 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: We need to teach lexical chunks that have grammatical info attached to them #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:15 PM |
RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) |
rliberni |
2:15 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I can see a problelm in simply teaching word lists, but I assume most teachers would give them a context, no? #eltchat |
BethCagnol |
2:15 PM |
Who thinks there's a split in pedagogy: those who teach grammar "mathematically" and those who teach it lexically? #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:15 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy |
hartle |
2:16 PM |
RT @ann_f: If it just comes down ...#eltchat No that's a first step but then users can notice patterning and experiment |
sandymillin |
2:16 PM |
My attempt at teaching second conditional lexically (with @fionamau's help!) http://slidesha.re/mphoiW Don't know if it works! #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:16 PM |
Is the problem this thing we call 'vocabulary' which can often (me guilty too) seem like a stand alone thing? #eltchat |
BethCagnol |
2:16 PM |
Currently working on a coursebook and teaching grammar lexically is heavily discouraged. It's discouraging!! #ELTChat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:16 PM |
There are different approaches, of course! Don't know about a split... #ELTchat |
FarnhamCastle |
2:16 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Grammar without lexis is irrelevant. Grammar needs meaning to give it relevance #eltchat |
hartle |
2:16 PM |
Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. Put in a word and study the cotext, what goes with it etc. |
esolcourses |
2:16 PM |
@bethcagnol yep, inclined to agree. #ELTChat |
ann_f |
2:16 PM |
If it just comes down to teaching vocab in context., problem solved! #eltchat |
gknightbkk |
2:16 PM |
My Ss saying "Speed down" have a lexical problem not a grammatical one #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:16 PM |
@hartle okay, like what? #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:17 PM |
RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets like animals for instance #eltchat |
NikkiFortova |
2:17 PM |
@hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:17 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy |
hartle |
2:17 PM |
RT @sandymillin: My attempt at teaching seco... http://slidesha.re/mphoiW Don't know if it works! #eltchat Lks good |
sandymillin |
2:17 PM |
RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >agree, but easier 2 use w/ higher levels. lower overwhelmed |
marcusmurilo |
2:17 PM |
@bethcagnol think many of us were trained to teach it mathematically... not so sure how to teach it lexically myself... #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:18 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:18 PM |
true! RT @rliberni: Is the problem this thing we call 'vocabulary' which can often (me guilty too) seem like a stand alone thing? #eltchat |
MissLadyCaz |
2:18 PM |
Context is so important. Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat |
BethCagnol |
2:18 PM |
I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:18 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: @hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat@hartle #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:18 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat |
hartle |
2:18 PM |
RT @sandymillin: RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >even with lower levels: simple concordances gd |
rliberni |
2:18 PM |
@bethcagnol I think both grammar and lexis need a context to be useful to learner (exception is dictionary work) #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:18 PM |
@thornburyscott's L is for (Micheal) Lewis http://bit.ly/lhoVXm #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:18 PM |
maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:18 PM |
nice! ;) RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. Put in a word and study the cotext, what goes with it etc. |
BethCagnol |
2:19 PM |
@sandymillin @fionamau Perhaps it takes more time to see of our efforts to teach grammar lexically works. #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:19 PM |
@MissLadyCaz Hi and welcome to #eltchat - must be late for you? |
ann_f |
2:19 PM |
Lexical priming also seems more for advanced students #eltchat |
MissLadyCaz |
2:19 PM |
Hello, by the way, from Australia #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:19 PM |
@Shaunwilden @AlexandraKouk agree, Shaun - tho' playing devil's advocate, couldn't the same be said about grammar translation? ;-) #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:19 PM |
RT @BobK99: @bethcagnol Gd question. One of my CELTA teachers actually used the term: e.g. 'Lets look at the maths of this struc.' #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:19 PM |
@hartle would really like to see ways to use this - think it's useful but v. time-consuming 4 teacher. also 1 word focus #eltchat |
hartle |
2:20 PM |
RT @hartle: This is my video on basic collocation for Italian stds but useful 4 everyone ht#tp://youtu.be/bEwaVW858_I collocation #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:20 PM |
Does teaching different contexts for the same wrod help or confuse students? #eltchat |
LogicalChoice |
2:20 PM |
@esolcourses @bethcagnol Totally agree. I'm inclined to side with the mathematical method because that is what has worked for me. #ELTChat |
chriscattaneo |
2:20 PM |
@ann_f in content context or / and grammatical context though #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:20 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @sandymillin: RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >even with lower levels: simple concordances gd |
KarenInGreece |
2:20 PM |
RT @rliberni: @bethcagnol I think both grammar and lexis need a context to be useful to learner (exception is dictionary work) #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:20 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:20 PM |
@esolcourses Same in what way? Single words are useless? #eltchat |
KarenInGreece |
2:20 PM |
RT @MissLadyCaz: Context is so important. Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:21 PM |
@esolcourses ah ok :-) #eltchat |
hartle |
2:21 PM |
Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:21 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: Does teaching difft contexts 4 the same wrod help or confuse students? #eltchat > depends on their level & on how U do it |
Shaunwilden |
2:21 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Depends on level and amount of contexts? #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:21 PM |
@Shaunwilden was more thinking of grammar presented in an artificial way that students wouldn't really get to use in real life #ELTChat |
BethCagnol |
2:21 PM |
I think some tchs like teaching grammar mathematically b/c it's easier to test it. #ELTChat |
BobK99 |
2:21 PM |
RT @gknightbkk: My Ss saying "Speed down" have a lexical problem not a grammatical one #eltchat! Gd case in point: that vocable has grammar |
ann_f |
2:21 PM |
An explanation of mathematical method? #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:21 PM |
RT @BethCagnol: I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:22 PM |
RT @hartle: Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat > yes, collocations 4 adva… (cont) http://deck.ly/~RZCLk |
ann_f |
2:22 PM |
Didn't go down well with my stds RT @hartle: Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:22 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: @hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:22 PM |
@bethcagnol the thing is sometimes we cannot find enough source here to put the students in understanding both #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:22 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal I think it depends on level more advanced need broader contexts & can compare usages, lower level might get confused #eltchat |
teachingenglish |
2:23 PM |
Looked at examples & discussed RT @hartle: RT @ann_f: Didn't go down well with my std#eltchat What did you do? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:23 PM |
RT @BethCagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat |
BethCagnol |
2:23 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat |
KarenInGreece |
2:23 PM |
@hartle Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat No but I'd like to try it |
rliberni |
2:23 PM |
@MissLadyCaz oh not too bad then #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:24 PM |
RT @hartle: I use BNC concordance searches and ... higher levels) lists need to be vetted but very useful #eltchat! Me too .../ |
hartle |
2:24 PM |
http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:24 PM |
@hartle can you give us links? #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:24 PM |
RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice |
celta_guide |
2:24 PM |
RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice |
ann_f |
2:24 PM |
identity crisis here! #eltchat |
teachingenglish |
2:24 PM |
identity crisis here! #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:24 PM |
RT @BethCagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat I like that! Thanks |
hartle |
2:24 PM |
I use BNC concordance searches and merican Corpus too (at higher levels) lists need to be vetted but very useful #eltchat |
hartle |
2:25 PM |
RT @marcusmurilo: it can be difficult to get ss used to concordances because of the novelty .. #eltchat yes U need to play about with them |
marcusmurilo |
2:25 PM |
as a NNEST myself i often used concordances to sort out my own linguistic problems... ;) #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:25 PM |
RT @MissLadyCaz Context is so important.Otherwise its a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. <wow #eltchat |
hartle |
2:25 PM |
RT @sandymillin: RT @Shaunwilden: a clear explanation of lexical priming http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat <excellent yes great |
marcusmurilo |
2:25 PM |
it can be difficult to get ss used to concordances because of the novelty factor, but seems to be an effective tool #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:25 PM |
RT @hartle: http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:25 PM |
RT @chriscattaneo: RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice |
sandymillin |
2:25 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: a clear explanation of lexical priming http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat <excellent |
rliberni |
2:26 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin If you want an excellent & challenging read I recommend the book Lexical Priming by Michael Hoey #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:26 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: Grammaticalised lexis vs lexicalised grammar is a very clever construct but then no one written a lexicalised grammar book #ELTchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:26 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:26 PM |
@sandymillin If you want an excellent & challenging read I recommend the book Lexical Priming by Michael Hoey #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:26 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:26 PM |
@thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat |
Marisa_C |
2:26 PM |
Grammaticalised lexis vs lexicalised grammar is a very clever construct but then no one written a lexicalised grammar book #ELTchat |
gknightbkk |
2:26 PM |
@shaunwilden Thanks for the Michael Hoey link. He's a genius when it comes to seeing lexical patterns in discourse #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:26 PM |
My strategy is simple where, how and why do we use this then I build around it - grammar and vocab #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:26 PM |
RT @hartle: http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat > yep! |
hartle |
2:27 PM |
This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84 #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:27 PM |
here's the link for hoey's lexical priming as @Shaunwilden recommended http://amzn.to/ivOQmp #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:27 PM |
facing connectivity issues - missing sth really interesting - trying to catch up #eltchat |
Marisa_C |
2:27 PM |
@gknightbkk Lexical patterns in discourse are a part of any study of textual cohesion - so perhaps this is where it is #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:28 PM |
@sandymillin I would have included it but it would have made a long tweet ;-) #eltchat |
Marisa_C |
2:28 PM |
@sandymillin And after you looked at their grammar what did you do ? :-o ? #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:28 PM |
@hartle I use concordance searches (www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk and lextutor.ca) with advanced SS, but depends on word/net access! #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:28 PM |
RT @BethCagnol: I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat |
rliberni |
2:28 PM |
RT @hartle: This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84 #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:28 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @hartle: This is my video on basic collocation for Italian stds but useful 4 everyone ht#tp://youtu.be/bEwaVW858_I collocation #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:28 PM |
http://bit.ly/l3MoHv Ask WHY first (not how/what) - helping out students to study better and find their #motivation #eltchat #efl #esl #esol |
Shaunwilden |
2:29 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:29 PM |
Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:29 PM |
@sandymillin Arh but then it loses context in the melee of #eltchat ;-) |
sandymillin |
2:29 PM |
@hartle do you have any examples of the worksheets you could share? #eltchat |
gknightbkk |
2:29 PM |
@Marisa_C Yes. Cohesion and coherence in discourse are vital to understanding meaning beyond the sentence level. #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:29 PM |
@hartle that's very interesting. i think there are few teachers out there teaching their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:29 PM |
@Marisa_C sorry, where marisa? which grammar are you asking about? #eltchat |
MissLadyCaz |
2:29 PM |
I find that many discussions and reiterations help my ESL learners to become more confident in using new words in correct contexts. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:29 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @hartle I use concordance searche.. #eltchat Yes access can be a prob. I often do searches in advance & thn make worksheets |
sandymillin |
2:29 PM |
@Shaunwilden that's what separate tweets are for! :p #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:29 PM |
@LogicalChoice I'm not sure I really meant that I think these boxes make little sense as language mixes together #eltchat |
DaveDodgson |
2:29 PM |
New blog post: Positive Reflections: 5 things I’ve done better this year http://bit.ly/lsKxFM #ELTchat |
Marisa_C |
2:30 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:30 PM |
RT @bethcagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat<i like that, but some SS don't! |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:30 PM |
RT @marcusmurilo: @hartle i think there are few teachers out there tchg their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:30 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
hartle |
2:30 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @hartle do you have any examples of the worksheets you could share? #eltchat I'll jst look |
hartle |
2:30 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
hartle |
2:30 PM |
RT @MissLadyCaz: I find that many discussions and reiterations help...#eltchat Yes, exposure and experimenting essential but noticing too |
eyespeakbrasil |
2:30 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) |
Shaunwilden |
2:30 PM |
This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) |
aClilToClimb |
2:30 PM |
And the list keeps on growing :) Are you the next? http://iasku.wordpress.com/who/ #eltchat #esl #elt #efl #edchat |
rliberni |
2:31 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal I'm having the same thoughts - it all sounds a bit EAP to me #eltchat |
Marisa_C |
2:31 PM |
@hartle #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' part that needs a systematic framework which at present does not exist |
NikkiFortova |
2:31 PM |
Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:31 PM |
I can't help but feel this would confuse sts, esp lower levels #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:31 PM |
here in Indonesia, we are accustomed to translate the whole sentence rather than just the core meaning #ELTChat |
BobK99 |
2:31 PM |
... but vetting v imp: Tried a 'live' window on laptop once :-( RT I use BNC concordance searches #eltchat (Apols fr long twt) |
rliberni |
2:31 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
DaveDodgson |
2:31 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :) |
sandymillin |
2:32 PM |
@rliberni sounds like a good strategy, but what do you use as a starting point? single vocab item, grammar point, text...? #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists - I think we can explore ways to train learners #eltchat |
marcusmurilo |
2:32 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono translating things verbatim is also a prob here in brazil. alas, guess Ts have to deal with that everywhere :( #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:32 PM |
going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists - I think we can explore ways to train learners #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:32 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @hartle #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' part that needs a systematic framework |
rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ to highlight how words link together #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @chucksandy: @Shaunwilden Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. 0ut of print: Any reason it never took off? #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:32 PM |
Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat |
ann_f |
2:32 PM |
Anybody have ideas abt teaching core meaning to low levels? #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:32 PM |
@Shaunwilden Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. 0ut of print: Any reason it never took off? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:32 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat |
sandymillin |
2:32 PM |
I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ to highlight how words link together #eltchat |
hartle |
2:33 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: @hartle #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' ..systematic framework which at present does not exist, yes |
Marisa_C |
2:33 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice! #eltchat |
hartle |
2:33 PM |
My worksheets mainly on private uni wiki :-( but I'll do a blog post l8ter to give you them #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:33 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:33 PM |
Lexical Approach 2 from TE http://bit.ly/immOzW #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:33 PM |
RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice! #eltchat |
EveWeb |
2:33 PM |
RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :) |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:34 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:34 PM |
RT @rliberni: @sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:34 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice! #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:34 PM |
RT @chucksandy: RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice! #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:34 PM |
@sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat |
EveWeb |
2:34 PM |
RT @europeaantje: What do teachers DO on Twitter? A simple preso with some "exemplar tweets", no "howto" http://bit.ly/iWvgjS #eltchat #tesol #efl #esl |
iainjfuller |
2:34 PM |
If you need examples of the third conditional to express regret. 'Working without a visa' http://t.co/QfGr27T #elt #tefl #efl #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:35 PM |
SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:35 PM |
@pjgallantry Greetings :-) #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:35 PM |
RT @rliberni: @sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:35 PM |
collocations, lexical-ized grammar/grammarized lexis/ lots of content & meaningful tasks, yes: but really - corpora w/ beginners? #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:35 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice! #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:35 PM |
#eltchat afternoon all - sorry to turn up late! |
chiasuan |
2:35 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:35 PM |
@rliberni OK, so do you e.g. take a word they use incorrectly, then examine what the correct grammar around it would be? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:35 PM |
RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: ths week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up 4 consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 <--- Voted :) |
miladakrajewska |
2:35 PM |
RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!' http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol |
Marisa_C |
2:36 PM |
@sandymillin @rliberni Essentially that's what WIllis says, teaching word grammar yes - but if feels messy & random #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:36 PM |
@Shaunwilden encourage learners to write a sentence/short conversation for each new word they learn #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:36 PM |
Aren't we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:36 PM |
#eltchat I'm with @chucksandy -corpora in class is, I think, rather a specialised use and not for beginners |
esolcourses |
2:36 PM |
a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:36 PM |
RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than a list |
sandymillin |
2:36 PM |
RT @ann_f: Anybody have ideas abt teaching core meaning to low levels? #eltchat |
vickyloras |
2:36 PM |
RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: Updates: #Facebook and #Twitter in #Classroom http://bit.ly/iVwfgL #edtech #finnedchat #fb4ed #eduswe #eltchat #edchat |
Ilotimo |
2:36 PM |
NEW POST: Prezi part 2 - in Classroom http://bit.ly/jYT5SU #edtech #edtech20 #edchat #eduswe #ukedchat #prezi #elmchat #eltchat |
hartle |
2:37 PM |
RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ #eltchat Really useful |
juanalejandro26 |
2:37 PM |
RT @chucksandy: RT @OUPELTGlobal: Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat |
KarenInGreece |
2:37 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat |
rliberni |
2:37 PM |
RT @esolcourses: a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat |
esolcourses |
2:37 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:37 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:37 PM |
@juanalejandro26 Not quite :-) #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:37 PM |
@sandymillin oops I could do with some lexical grammar - where they are now and where they want to be #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:37 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than a list |
ann_f |
2:37 PM |
RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help. Can u explain more? #ELTchat |
KarenInGreece |
2:37 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @marcusmurilo: @hartle i think there are few teachers out there tchg their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat |
juanalejandro26 |
2:37 PM |
let me see if I got today's idea. you're talking about how to teach vocabulary in advanced levels, aren't you? #ELTChat |
Shaunwilden |
2:37 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal How do you mean? #eltchat |
EveWeb |
2:37 PM |
RT @ysmcu: If someone interested in "Intrinsic & Extrinsic Motivation",please look my site:) http://t.co/962QROo but this's only for beginner. #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:38 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: ...ss look for images they associate w/ the word & then share it in class.The different associations are amazing! #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:38 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ #eltchat Really useful |
KarenInGreece |
2:38 PM |
@AlexandraKouk SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat I agree, this is important |
hartle |
2:38 PM |
RT @chucksandy: @Shaunwilden Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. #eltchat Not systematic enough |
juanalejandro26 |
2:38 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: I have my sts look for images they associate with the word and then share it in class. The different associations are amazing! #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:38 PM |
#eltchat simple example of lexical grammar - adjective synonyms/antonyms that use the same preposition, e.g. good/brilliant/bad at(doing st) |
AlexandraKouk |
2:38 PM |
@ann_f then they could have more choice on how to record items + their usage #ELTchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:38 PM |
I have my sts look for images they associate with the word and then share it in class. The different associations are amazing! #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:38 PM |
RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :) |
pjgallantry |
2:39 PM |
#eltchat how would you place lexical grammar in approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? |
rliberni |
2:39 PM |
@juanalejandro26 it's about a lexical-grammar approach rather than single word lists #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:39 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Very kinaesthetic :-) #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:39 PM |
now there's a thought ^^ RT @OUPELTGlobal Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? #ELTChat |
cherrymp |
2:39 PM |
Taking a lexical approach to teaching: principles and problems http://bit.ly/lsOfxH #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:39 PM |
I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:39 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar...#eltchat Yes, simply train learners to notice what goes with words |
domi75P |
2:39 PM |
RT @esolcourses: RT @chucksandy RT @OUPELTGlobal Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:39 PM |
@Marisa_C with classes I can see this, with 1:1 & small groups it is messy & random anyway as it's about their individual desires #eltchat |
juanalejandro26 |
2:39 PM |
I don't know what the topic is, but what you're saying is interesting as usual! #ELTChat |
esolcourses |
2:39 PM |
RT @chucksandy RT @OUPELTGlobal Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:39 PM |
RT @carldowse:vid stories 4 business English- #besig nxt wknd Workshop w/ Jamie Keddie is just a week away http://ht.ly/5fPay #elt #ELTchat |
eyespeakbrasil |
2:39 PM |
RT @ysmcu: If someone interested in "Intrinsic & Extrinsic Motivation",please look my site:) http://t.co/962QROo but this's only for beginner. #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:39 PM |
RT @harrisonmike: From #eltchat to teachers in local authority ESOL-nice comment frm @Kate_Millin on my blog =) http://bit.ly/lB6NVi:TY mum! |
harrisonmike |
2:39 PM |
From #eltchat to teachers in local authority ESOL - nice comment from Kate Millin on my blog =) http://t.co/1hPx76S |
LUZBEGO |
2:40 PM |
RT @hartle: This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84 #eltchat |
juanalejandro26 |
2:40 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal it is!!! it's juts I arrived late... AGAIN!!! #ELTChat |
hartle |
2:40 PM |
RT @chucksandy: RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course ...#eltchat great |
Marisa_C |
2:40 PM |
@juanalejandro26 We're trying to get to grips with our topic ourselves! :-D Brainstorming may help generate some useful ideas #ELTChat |
sandymillin |
2:40 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat simple example of lexical grammar - adjective synonyms/antonyms that use the same preposition, e.g. good/brilliant/bad at(doing st) |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:40 PM |
@juanalejandro26 I'm not sure that's a compliment LOL #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:40 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Taking a lexical approach to teaching: principles and problems http://bit.ly/lsOfxH #eltchat |
LUZBEGO |
2:40 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
BethCagnol |
2:41 PM |
RT @chiasuan: I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:41 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @rliberni OK, so do you e.g. take a word they use incorrectly, then..#eltchat yes! cd be collocation prob, wrong syntax etc |
Marisa_C |
2:41 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat how would you place lexical grammar in approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? |
ann_f |
2:41 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat In approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? Focussing on the language that comes from ss? |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:41 PM |
@chriscattaneo and visual and the sharing of the images adds different contexts to different sts #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:42 PM |
Many tend2apply our own learnin prefrnces when teachin.A teachr I knw learnt a lang purely by pickin up phrases&so teach lexically. #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:42 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal some sts don't understand the associations and the explanations and interaction strengthen the learning #eltchat |
hartle |
2:42 PM |
Basically learners need to notice lang. in context, common collocations etc. and then use them #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:42 PM |
RT @chiasuan: I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:42 PM |
@sandymillin not really more take a context in which they need to function , c what's happening and then either develop or correct #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:42 PM |
Lexical Approach Classroom Activities http://bit.ly/jDmF4P #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:43 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, but it's all student output/correction: where's the input? |
hartle |
2:43 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than a list |
sandymillin |
2:43 PM |
#eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them |
pjgallantry |
2:43 PM |
#eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, but it's all student output/correction: where's the input? |
hartle |
2:43 PM |
RT @chucksandy: collocations, lexical-ized grammar/grammarized...#eltchat probably corpora not good with beginners but awareness yes |
Mbarek |
2:43 PM |
Happy Wednesday to everyone at #eltchat , just lurking :-) |
sandymillin |
2:43 PM |
Do any of you teach without explaining grammar explicitly at all? (what I think of as 'pure' lexical approach - could be wrong!) #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:44 PM |
@sandymillin in that case yes, my last class was advanced & had no gram lessons-just lexically driven ones that might touch upon g. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:44 PM |
RT @juanalejandro26: let me see if I got today's idea. you're talking about...#ELTChat not really advanced, but going beyond single words |
juanalejandro26 |
2:44 PM |
@sandymillin #ELTChat it depends on the level. if it's an advanced level, you can teach without explaining grammar. I do it! |
rliberni |
2:44 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:44 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin I do unless I see some sts feeling uncomfortable. #eltchat>never learnt like this, so don't know hw 2 do it? |
chiasuan |
2:44 PM |
@pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat |
ann_f |
2:44 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them. Agree ^^ |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:44 PM |
@sandymillin I do unless I see some sts feeling uncomfortable. #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:44 PM |
@sandymillin depends on the class really - some SS need a more explicit approach, others don't #ELTchat |
vickyloras |
2:44 PM |
RT @miladakrajewska: RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!' http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol |
chucksandy |
2:45 PM |
RT @hartle: Willis/Lewis fathers of lexical syllabi led to others' work tho mostly academic & really isn't it tangental to lang ed? #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:45 PM |
@pjgallantry There's always a way of feeding in & dealing with emergent language and extending it with Lexical Approach ideas. #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:45 PM |
@sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat |
apuustin |
2:45 PM |
RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: New features of Prezi and Prezi for Ipad http://bit.ly/kxUblx #edtech #finnedchat #edchat #eduswe #Ipad #eltchat |
hartle |
2:45 PM |
RT @ann_f: RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat In approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? Focussing on the language that comes from ss? yes |
sandymillin |
2:45 PM |
@Shaunwilden @juanalejandro26 With advanced, I think I teach like this too, but what about low levels (beg/elem)<need rules? #eltchat |
NikkiFortova |
2:45 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: I believe we all have a naturally ability to learn languages and we didn't do it through gram exs. and vocab lists #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:45 PM |
readymade chunks help Ss in attending to the meaning rather than worrying abt language esp FL learners #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:45 PM |
I believe we all have a naturally ability to learn languages and we didn't do it through gram exs. and vocab lists #eltchat |
hartle |
2:46 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: I think teaching Lexical needs some sort of barrier on how not to be trapped ...#ELTChat error analysis to noticing exs |
juanalejandro26 |
2:46 PM |
@sandymillin yes, they need to build their base. they need to know what the structures are. but it's not a must!! #ELTChat |
sandymillin |
2:46 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat<fair enough, but how do you help SS to see this? and how to teach w/o rules? :) |
rliberni |
2:46 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:46 PM |
@chiasuan that's true, but the issue there may be one of sufficient input of new lexis - does it make for a large teacher workload? #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:46 PM |
@juanalejandro26 I find most of my advanced students actually want to talk about grammar it gives them a prop (may be age tho) #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:46 PM |
@sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat |
seburnt |
2:46 PM |
RT @miladakrajewska: RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!' http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol |
hartle |
2:47 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, ... input comes after error analysis, then experiment |
sandymillin |
2:47 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal please prove me wrong! #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:47 PM |
@sandymillin let them find the patterns - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-) #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:47 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal OK, but how different is L1 and L2 learning? L1 is list-less (!), but L2 can be hard to do it this way IMO #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:47 PM |
@pjgallantry I think tht's a common misconceptn abt workin with st output. Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat |
Marisa_C |
2:47 PM |
made a correction to my previous tweet #ELTChat |
cherrymp |
2:47 PM |
#eltchat RT @Marisa_C: The actual methodology of the lexical approach is not far removed from TBL - gramma… (cont) http://deck.ly/~nNcXn |
rliberni |
2:47 PM |
@juanalejandro26 I agree about building a base without this how can they build up their performance? #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:48 PM |
@Shaunwilden like idea of letting SS find patterns, but grouping lang 4 low-level SS to do this maybe difficult w/o special CBs? #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:48 PM |
even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat |
ann_f |
2:48 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat Absoultely! |
pjgallantry |
2:48 PM |
#eltchat OK, when dealing with lexis & lexical grammar, we also have to deal with the 'rules' of register/style - how to make ss aware? |
rliberni |
2:48 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-) #eltchat |
hartle |
2:48 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them |
Shaunwilden |
2:48 PM |
RT @mcneilmahon: Isn't this how we teach kids? It's how I learnt Spanish in Arg, but adults in NESEs need some focus on structure #eltchat |
ann_f |
2:49 PM |
RT @cherrymp: even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat But that's true abt everything |
rliberni |
2:49 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: In other words, when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? #eltchat |
juanalejandro26 |
2:49 PM |
@rliberni but here it comes a question. how do we have to teach grammar in lower levels? for me it's difficult! I feel ambiguous #ELTChat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:49 PM |
In other words, when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:49 PM |
RT @BobK99: RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club: you don't talk about rules. :-) lol |
rliberni |
2:49 PM |
RT @BobK99: RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club: you don't talk about rules. :-) |
cherrymp |
2:49 PM |
@ChrisCattaneo @pjgallantry that's y sme say 'teacher is the method' #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:49 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club: you don't talk about rules. :-) |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:49 PM |
@sandymillin I agree and older sts can bring new tools to learning. But I'm weary of interefering with their natural abilities #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:49 PM |
RT @chriscattaneo: Discovery of patterns with or without the guidance? #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:49 PM |
Discovery of patterns with or without the guidance? #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:49 PM |
@pjgallantry I think whther it's TBL or Dogme,it depends on the tchers' approach & seizing opportunities to work on emergent lang. #eltchat. |
chriscattaneo |
2:50 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal more often than it should ! #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:50 PM |
RT @rliberni: RT @OUPELTGlobal: In other words,when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? <most of the time,I sometime think #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:50 PM |
RT:@rliberni: @juanalejandro26 most of my advanced students want to talk about grammar it gives them a prop (may be age tho) #eltchat<here2 |
BethCagnol |
2:50 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:50 PM |
@sandymillin grouping? Sorry lost thread #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:50 PM |
@ann_f rt ann - input is not equal to intake #eltchat |
hartle |
2:50 PM |
Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice |
pjgallantry |
2:50 PM |
@chiasuan that's true of any approach though, surely? #eltchat |
LUZBEGO |
2:50 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-) #eltchat |
miladakrajewska |
2:50 PM |
RT @CELT_Athens: Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat |
CELT_Athens |
2:50 PM |
Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:51 PM |
@sandymillin I think meeting sts' expectations is important, if they want grammar, it's our starting point #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:51 PM |
@juanalejandro26 I think at lower levels we use context more and the grammar is part of that context but depends on ur stds #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:51 PM |
RT @hartle: Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice |
sandymillin |
2:51 PM |
@Shaunwilden i.e. if u want SS to find patterns, oft low-level txts have 2 many lang. points:how 2 highlight to SS which 2 focus on #eltchat |
chiasuan |
2:51 PM |
Pure TBLT does not supprt preteaching since learning isn't linear,but dictaphones allow sts2listen2their tasks again& self-correct. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:51 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat |
hartle |
2:52 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-) #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:52 PM |
@juanalejandro26 my students are all adults who need to use English daily diff from students who are taking exams for example #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:52 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
chucksandy |
2:52 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it... < nice #eltchat |
hartle |
2:52 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think tht's a common misconceptn abt workin with st output. Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:52 PM |
@hartle:Teaching chunks not words is a habit,I think not level related #eltchat ... teach"shower"or"have a shower"&ask stds to notice. AGREE |
ESOLish |
2:52 PM |
RT @esolcourses: a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:52 PM |
@sandymillin So for go by verb itself - underline all the have or get etc #eltchat |
hartle |
2:52 PM |
RT @rliberni: @juanalejandro26 #eltchat grammar is a "teddy bear" reassuring but most of my adv. stds have more trouble with lexis |
chiasuan |
2:52 PM |
@pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:52 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin I think meeting sts' expectations is important, if they want grammar, it's our starting point #eltchat>true |
AlexandraKouk |
2:52 PM |
RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: Updates: #Facebook & #Twitter in #Classroom http://bit.ly/iVwfgL #edtech #fb4ed #eduswe #eltchat #edchat #aplanet |
vickyloras |
2:52 PM |
RT @CELT_Athens: Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat |
BethCagnol |
2:53 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:53 PM |
RT @hartle: Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice |
hartle |
2:53 PM |
RT @cherrymp: even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat so extend and experiment |
BethCagnol |
2:53 PM |
Doctors taking their English exam. Sorry I could participate more. #ELTChat CU 2nite! |
NikkiFortova |
2:53 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:54 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
chriscattaneo |
2:54 PM |
@cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin what about asking why they want it? #eltchat |
hartle |
2:54 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think... seizing opportunities to work on emergent lang. #eltchat. Absolutely |
AlexandraKouk |
2:54 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: is dealing w/ lexical grammar abt 'providing' it or 'managing' it, w/ both T&S occupying provider/manager roles? #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:54 PM |
RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat |
cherrymp |
2:54 PM |
@hartle mmm. bt learner readiness is wt i'm ref to - dey learn if dey want to - u cannot force things in #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:54 PM |
RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:54 PM |
is dealing with lexical grammar about 'providing' it or 'managing' it, with both T&S occupying provider/manager roles? #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:54 PM |
@hartle 'shower'...fair enough, but can you do this with every word you teach? or at least most of them? #eltchat |
AlexandraKouk |
2:54 PM |
RT @mcneilmahon: @rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical! #eltchat |
hartle |
2:54 PM |
Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat |
mcneilmahon |
2:54 PM |
@rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical! #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:54 PM |
RT @sandymillin: RT:@rliberni: @juanalejandro26 most of my adv sts ...it gives them a prop.. #eltchat<ut comes a time to lose the crutches! |
ESOLish |
2:54 PM |
RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat |
naomi_moir |
2:54 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) |
cherrymp |
2:55 PM |
@ChrisCattaneo @cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin what about asking why they want it? #eltchat - thts a gud pt |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:55 PM |
@chriscattaneo I've asked and they shrug their shoulders thinking it's a silly question. What else does a lang techr teach? #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:55 PM |
RT @chriscattaneo: @cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin what about asking why they want it? #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:55 PM |
@hartle grammar is more finite in a way (we can 'do' it) lexis is more infinite in terms of breadth of usage which makes it harder #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:55 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin So for go by verb itself - underline all the have or get etc #eltchat |
mcneilmahon |
2:55 PM |
RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat Completely agree |
esolcourses |
2:55 PM |
RT @vickyloras: The Day Coldplay Came To Our Classroom - A Lesson Plan on "Clocks": http://wp.me/pIrrb-bk #ELTChat #esl #efl #esol http://wp.me/pIrrb-bk |
mcneilmahon |
2:56 PM |
@rliberni so do we continue to take the easy (finite) way out? #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:56 PM |
@rliberni had a SS who is doing CAE exam right now - thought he could learn list of all English collocations over the past week! #eltchat |
yitzha_sarwono |
2:56 PM |
RT @hartle Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat >> I 2nd that ^^ |
Shaunwilden |
2:56 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal But you need to do it regularly so they get used to it ,asking once they will be confused ask again sb might say #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:57 PM |
RT @juanalejandro26: once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't learn Spanish (mother tongue) by learning grammar" and... it's true #ELTChat |
pjgallantry |
2:57 PM |
RT @rliberni @hartle...lexis is more infinite in terms of breadth of usage which makes it harder #eltchat <good point |
Shaunwilden |
2:57 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Shaunwilden and show alternatives. You need to guide them and support them. #eltchat - Totally :-) |
juanalejandro26 |
2:57 PM |
once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't learn Spanish (mother tongue) by learning grammar" and... it's true #ELTChat |
cherrymp |
2:57 PM |
@rliberni bt even in d usage isn't there a finiteness? #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:57 PM |
@Shaunwilden and show alternatives. You need to guide them and support them. #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:57 PM |
@mcneilmahon what I'm trying to say is that my students need something v immediate e.g. for tomorrow's meeting or conference #eltchat |
hartle |
2:57 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin ... if they want grammar..#eltchat but .they have trouble with lexis, coz they didn't know it's important |
ShellTerrell |
2:57 PM |
Cool summary of news by @AlexandraKouk http://smf.is/1tKLFS #eltchat #ellchat |
ISILBOY |
2:57 PM |
New blog post by @DaveDodgson : Positive Reflections: 5 things I’ve done better this year http://t.co/kzxV6A6 #ELTchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
2:58 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @juanalejandro26: once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't mother tongue by gramr" and... it's true #ELTChat #eltchat |
esolcourses |
2:58 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat |
erumiqocik |
2:58 PM |
RT @teachingenglish: Looked at examples & discussed RT @hartle: RT @ann_f: Didn't go down well with my std#eltchat What did you do? #eltchat |
MissLadyCaz |
2:58 PM |
RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat |
hartle |
2:58 PM |
RT @mcneilmahon: @rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical! #eltchat Absolutely |
erumiqocik |
2:58 PM |
RT @teachingenglish: identity crisis here! #eltchat |
mcneilmahon |
2:58 PM |
@rliberni so they need finite lexis of conferences much more than grammar :) #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:58 PM |
@hartle this is what I struggle with. know grammar/lexis both v. important, but never know how to combine thm so SS remember #eltchat |
BobK99 |
2:58 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @rliberni had a SS who is doing CAE exam right now - thought he ...#eltchat! Aw. Bless. |
cherrymp |
2:58 PM |
@juanalejandro26 bt dey ddnt evn know dat dey were learning - rt? #eltchat |
rliberni |
2:58 PM |
@mcneilmahon not suggesting that just trying to see why students like the comfort of grammar #eltchat |
sandymillin |
2:59 PM |
RT @juanalejandro26: @cherrymp but, can we create a way to teach a new language without teaching grammar? just with context? #ELTChat I guess it does exist |
chriscattaneo |
2:59 PM |
Grammar is seen to be more 'right or wrong', or black or white. Lexis oozes with various shades of grey #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
2:59 PM |
RT @ann_f: So biteable chuncks, ss output>input and whatever methodology that suits? #eltchat |
hartle |
2:59 PM |
RT @cherrymp: @hartle mmm. bt learner readiness is wt i'm ref to - dey learn if dey want to - u cannot force things in #eltchat why shd U? |
juanalejandro26 |
2:59 PM |
@cherrymp but, can we create a way to teach a new language without teaching grammar? just with context? #ELTChat I guess it does exist |
ann_f |
2:59 PM |
So biteable chuncks, ss output>input and whatever methodology that suits? #eltchat |
pjgallantry |
2:59 PM |
#eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is activating ss awareness of patterns and links within language |
hartle |
2:59 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @hartle can you do this with every word you teach? or at least most of them? #eltchat yes, if you teach chunks not words |
erumiqocik |
2:59 PM |
RT @teachingenglish: Find chunks, collocations easier to swallow RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
3:00 PM |
@ChrisCattaneo e.g. take the whole area of talking about the future #eltchat |
rliberni |
3:00 PM |
@mcneilmahon yes, they do for sure - they ask for it #eltchat |
sandymillin |
3:00 PM |
As a lang learner I find idea of only learning lexical chunks diffclt>whereas 1 grammatical pattern can be applied in 100s of sit's #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
3:00 PM |
@ChrisCattaneo really? And yet grammar is so grey #eltchat |
BobK99 |
3:00 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is activating ss awareness of patterns and links within language! Yup. |
rliberni |
3:00 PM |
@mcneilmahon no, no not about lexis or grammar just about how do I do this now or tomorrow or next week & keep my job! #eltchat |
mcneilmahon |
3:00 PM |
@rliberni but do they? Or is it the teachers & coursebook authors? My SS much prefer new lexis 2 old grammar they still can't get #eltchat |
OUPELTGlobal |
3:00 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is ACTIVATING ss awareness of patterns and links within language |
EnglishOutThere |
3:00 PM |
They're used to it RT @rliberni: @mcneilmahon not suggesting that just trying to see why students like the comfort of grammar #eltchat |
hartle |
3:01 PM |
RT @rliberni: @hartle lexis is more infinite #eltchat Yes, I like the lexical dimension nt approach, awareness not prescription |
OUPELTGlobal |
3:01 PM |
Thanks every1 for a great chat, inspiring as usual. Thanks to the moderators - difficult topic - great job. Goota go! #eltchat |
Shaunwilden |
3:01 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Bye have a good afternoon #eltchat |
Comments (0)
You don't have permission to comment on this page.