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How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists (redirected from How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond ���single word��� lists)

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This is the transcript of the #eltchat at 12BST on 15.06.2011 on the topic of 

 

How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists

 

rliberni 2:01 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists
Shaunwilden 2:01 PM Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists
hartle 2:02 PM Hi everyone #eltchat
FarnhamCastle 2:02 PM RT @rliberni: Hello and welcome to today's #eltchat on the topic of How can we teach lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists
sandymillin 2:02 PM Had great trouble planning an experimental lexical approach lesson for conditional-type sentences. @fionamau really helped me! #eltchat
cherrymp 2:04 PM RT @rliberni: Don't forget the hashtag #eltchat  at the end of your tweets otherwise we'll miss your pearls :-) > yeah ^^
BobK99 2:04 PM Cd we kick off the #eltchat by defining terms? Are we just talking about vocab?
Shaunwilden 2:04 PM Are we all happy with what lexical grammar is? #eltchat
cherrymp 2:04 PM RT @rliberni: Your moderators today are myself and @Shaunwilden pls ask us if you have any questions #eltchat
rliberni 2:04 PM Don't forget the hashtag #eltchat  at the end of your tweets otherwise we'll miss your pearls :-)
esolcourses 2:05 PM RT @harrisonmike: So #eltchat, what do you mean by lexical grammar? #havelittleideawhatitis ] #not100%surewhatitiseither
BethCagnol 2:05 PM Happy to be present, but might be distant during this #ELTChat . My doctors will B taking an exam at the same time at 13:30.
harrisonmike 2:05 PM @Shaunwilden No! #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:05 PM i'm also unsure of what is meant by lexical grammar... :S #eltchat
hartle 2:05 PM Mjor prob that crsboks often teach single word lists & stds learn meaning but not use #eltchat
aClilToClimb 2:05 PM WHere did that come from? I meant home #ELTchat
harrisonmike 2:05 PM So #eltchat, what do you mean by lexical grammar? #havelittleideawhatitis
BethCagnol 2:06 PM @Shaunwilden By lexical grammar do we mean things like teaching the pres perfect lexically? Chunking "I have been here for..." #ELTChat
rliberni 2:06 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-)  does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat
ann_f 2:06 PM lexical grammar: contradiction in terms? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:06 PM Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-)  does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:07 PM Unf most links seem to be to pdfs when you google #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:07 PM @ann_f  i don't think there's anything contradiction there. what would the contradiction be exactly in your view? #eltchat
rliberni 2:07 PM Definition anyone? #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:07 PM @Shaunwilden  thanks for the link!!  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:07 PM @TeachingEnglish was about second conditionals...will upload it to slideshare in a minute #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:07 PM @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat
rliberni 2:07 PM RT @BethCagnol: @Shaunwilden By lexical grammar do we mean things like teaching the pres perfect lexically? Chunking "I have been here for..." #ELTChat
hartle 2:07 PM RT @hartle: #eltchat lexical grammar everythng that goes with single items: count/uncount, collocation, patterning, semantic prosody etc
sandymillin 2:08 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat < lexical approach type stuff?
sandymillin 2:08 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-)  does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat <good guide
ann_f 2:08 PM Thanks! RT @sandymillin: @TeachingEnglish was about second conditionals...will upload it to slideshare in a minute #eltchat
BobK99 2:09 PM RT @Shaunwilden: Darn I was hoping someone one would tell me ;-)  does this help? http://bit.ly/lvbBg6 #eltchat! Thanks
teachingenglish 2:09 PM Find chunks, collocations easier to swallow RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat
hartle 2:09 PM For ex. a st can understand the word "possibilty" but uses it in the wrong way #eltchat
gknightbkk 2:10 PM Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat
rliberni 2:10 PM would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets like animals for instance #eltchat
sandymillin 2:10 PM is it to do with 'colligations'? another term ;) =the grammar that goes with a word e.g. like + -ing or to+inf but not bare inf #eltchat
hartle 2:10 PM My stds often say "I have the possibility to go to London" not natural English We don't collocate "have" with "possibility" #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:10 PM @sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat
cherrymp 2:10 PM Articles on English language teaching from IH Barcelona http://bit.ly/bhg2aj #eltchat #elt #esl #efl #tesl #tefl
sandymillin 2:11 PM Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;)
OUPELTGlobal 2:11 PM RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets  #eltchat
gknightbkk 2:11 PM Language is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar (Lewis 1993) #eltchat
hartle 2:11 PM RT @sandymillin: @rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat
rliberni 2:11 PM @ChrisCattaneo good question I have to say I was a bit stumped #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:11 PM RT @gknightbkk: Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat Not that I agree with :-)
sandymillin 2:11 PM @rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat
hartle 2:11 PM RT @sandymillin: is it to do with 'colligations'? #eltchat not only I thnk: collocation, colligation &semantic prosody
Shaunwilden 2:11 PM RT @ChrisCattaneo: @sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat Haha what about do they colligate?
NikkiFortova 2:11 PM RT @gknightbkk: Lexis is central in meaning. Grammar plays a subservient role #eltchat
rliberni 2:11 PM RT @chriscattaneo: @sandymillin do the words 'grammar' and 'lexis' collocate? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:11 PM RT @sandymillin: is it to do with 'colligations'? another term ;) =the grammar that goes with a word e.g. like + -ing or to+inf but not bare inf #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:12 PM RT @sandymillin: @rliberni I think a lot of words are taught in context, but not necessarily explored in similar contexts/grammar not highlighted #eltchat
lu_bodeman 2:12 PM Reading over tweets on #eltchat. Can't figure out what lexical grammar is yet
hartle 2:12 PM @sandymillin I proposed it #eltchat because coursebks tend to focus on single word lists #eltchat
rliberni 2:12 PM RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) just about to tweet this too!
sandymillin 2:12 PM RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar" (Lewis 1993) #eltchat
hartle 2:12 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets  #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:13 PM Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them  together? #ELTchat
marcusmurilo 2:13 PM RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;) // haha
yitzha_sarwono 2:13 PM @Shaunwilden Hi,sorry for being late,my internet sucks tonight,but glad to join #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:13 PM RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy
BobK99 2:13 PM RT @gknightbkk: "Lang is grammaticalised lexis, not lexicalised grammar" (Lewis 1993) #eltchat! Gd man, Lewis, bt I'll have to thk abt that
sandymillin 2:13 PM @hartle so can you rephrase the question a bit? #eltchat think we're all a bit confused!
rliberni 2:13 PM @hartle  can you give us your definition? #eltchat
hartle 2:13 PM Stds need to know what goes with those single items not just the meaning #eltchat
hartle 2:14 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I can see a problelm ... #eltchat teaching in context already gd but stds need more,
OUPELTGlobal 2:14 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis?  #ELTchat #eltchat
rliberni 2:14 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them  together? #ELTchat
marcusmurilo 2:14 PM @lu_bodeman someone posted this link http://is.gd/LqEuJS which you might want to take a look at ;) #eltchat
sandymillin 2:14 PM #eltchat so could one problem be that e.g. in one lesson we focus on present cont. and in another a set of 20 verbs>how to link 2ge more?
esolcourses 2:14 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: Does there need to be a clash between teaching grammar and teaching lexis? Most natural to teach them  together? #ELTchat
esolcourses 2:14 PM maybe @thornburyscott's "L is for Michael Lewis" might shed a bit more light? #ELTChat
gknightbkk 2:14 PM We need to teach lexical chunks that have grammatical info attached to them #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:14 PM @hartle I can see a problelm in simply teaching word lists, but I assume most teachers would give them a context, no? #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:14 PM RT @barbsaka: RT @StevenHerder: Think you know #iTDi Director @chucksandy? yitzha_sarwono interviews him! http://bit.ly/jg2x9J  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2:15 PM @esolcourses @AlexandraKouk isnt that the point, we teach them together? Teaching a single word is pointless as sts cant use it  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:15 PM @bethcagnol that's my problem. i'm not sure how to teach grammar lexically...had to experiment 4 recent course - struggled #ELTChat
esolcourses 2:15 PM RT @bethcagnol: Who thinks there's a split in pedagogy: those who teach grammar "mathematically" and those who teach it lexically? #ELTChat
rliberni 2:15 PM RT @gknightbkk: We need to teach lexical chunks that have grammatical info attached to them #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:15 PM RT @sandymillin: Do we know who proposed this #eltchat topic? Can they explain themselves? ;)
rliberni 2:15 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I can see a problelm in simply teaching word lists, but I assume most teachers would give them a context, no? #eltchat
BethCagnol 2:15 PM Who thinks there's a split in pedagogy: those who teach grammar "mathematically" and those who teach it lexically? #ELTChat
rliberni 2:15 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy
hartle 2:16 PM RT @ann_f: If it just comes down ...#eltchat No that's a first step but then users can notice patterning and experiment
sandymillin 2:16 PM My attempt at teaching second conditional lexically (with @fionamau's help!) http://slidesha.re/mphoiW Don't know if it works! #eltchat
rliberni 2:16 PM Is the problem this thing we call 'vocabulary' which can often (me guilty too) seem like a stand alone thing? #eltchat
BethCagnol 2:16 PM Currently working on a coursebook and teaching grammar lexically is heavily discouraged. It's discouraging!! #ELTChat
AlexandraKouk 2:16 PM There are different approaches, of course! Don't know about a split... #ELTchat
FarnhamCastle 2:16 PM @OUPELTGlobal  Grammar without lexis is irrelevant.  Grammar needs  meaning to give it relevance #eltchat
hartle 2:16 PM Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. Put in a word and study the cotext, what goes with it etc.
esolcourses 2:16 PM @bethcagnol yep, inclined to agree. #ELTChat
ann_f 2:16 PM If it just comes down to teaching vocab in context., problem solved! #eltchat
gknightbkk 2:16 PM My Ss saying "Speed down" have a lexical problem not a grammatical one #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:16 PM @hartle okay, like what?  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:17 PM RT @rliberni: would have thought most words would be taught in context except 4 dictionary work & some lexical sets like animals for instance #eltchat
NikkiFortova 2:17 PM @hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:17 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @ann_f: #eltchat But where does that get us? Language is so general RT @gknightbkk: "Language is grammatica… (cont) http://deck.ly/~fM4Vy
hartle 2:17 PM RT @sandymillin: My attempt at teaching seco... http://slidesha.re/mphoiW Don't know if it works! #eltchat Lks good
sandymillin 2:17 PM RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >agree, but easier 2 use w/ higher levels. lower overwhelmed
marcusmurilo 2:17 PM @bethcagnol  think many of us were trained to teach it mathematically... not so sure how to teach it lexically myself... #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:18 PM RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion  - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:18 PM true! RT @rliberni: Is the problem this thing we call 'vocabulary' which can often (me guilty too) seem like a stand alone thing? #eltchat
MissLadyCaz 2:18 PM Context is so important. Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat
BethCagnol 2:18 PM I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat
OUPELTGlobal 2:18 PM RT @NikkiFortova: @hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat@hartle  #eltchat
rliberni 2:18 PM RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion  - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat
hartle 2:18 PM RT @sandymillin: RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >even with lower levels: simple concordances gd
rliberni 2:18 PM @bethcagnol I think both grammar and lexis need a context to be useful to learner (exception is dictionary work) #eltchat
sandymillin 2:18 PM @thornburyscott's L is for (Micheal) Lewis http://bit.ly/lhoVXm #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:18 PM maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion  - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:18 PM nice! ;) RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. Put in a word and study the cotext, what goes with it etc.
BethCagnol 2:19 PM @sandymillin @fionamau Perhaps it takes more time to see of our efforts to teach grammar lexically works. #ELTChat
rliberni 2:19 PM @MissLadyCaz Hi and welcome to #eltchat - must be late for you?
ann_f 2:19 PM Lexical priming also seems more for advanced students #eltchat
MissLadyCaz 2:19 PM Hello, by the way, from Australia #eltchat
esolcourses 2:19 PM @Shaunwilden @AlexandraKouk agree, Shaun - tho' playing devil's advocate, couldn't the same be said about grammar translation? ;-) #eltchat
BobK99 2:19 PM RT @BobK99: @bethcagnol Gd question. One of my CELTA teachers actually used the term: e.g. 'Lets look at the maths of this struc.' #eltchat
sandymillin 2:19 PM @hartle would really like to see ways to use this - think it's useful but v. time-consuming 4 teacher. also 1 word focus #eltchat
hartle 2:20 PM RT @hartle: This is my video on basic collocation for Italian stds but useful 4 everyone ht#tp://youtu.be/bEwaVW858_I collocation #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:20 PM Does teaching different contexts for the same wrod help or confuse students? #eltchat
LogicalChoice 2:20 PM @esolcourses @bethcagnol Totally agree. I'm inclined to side with the mathematical method because that is what has worked for me. #ELTChat
chriscattaneo 2:20 PM @ann_f in content context or / and grammatical context though #eltchat
rliberni 2:20 PM RT @hartle: RT @sandymillin: RT @hartle: Using concordancing can help http://bit.ly/c9400A #eltchat. >even with lower levels: simple concordances gd
KarenInGreece 2:20 PM RT @rliberni: @bethcagnol I think both grammar and lexis need a context to be useful to learner (exception is dictionary work) #eltchat
esolcourses 2:20 PM RT @Shaunwilden: maybe exploring lexical priming will help the confusion  - here's a quite clear explanation http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:20 PM @esolcourses Same in what way? Single words are useless? #eltchat
KarenInGreece 2:20 PM RT @MissLadyCaz: Context is so important. Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:21 PM @esolcourses ah ok :-) #eltchat
hartle 2:21 PM Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:21 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: Does teaching difft contexts 4 the same wrod help or confuse students? #eltchat > depends on their level & on how U do it
Shaunwilden 2:21 PM @OUPELTGlobal  Depends on level and amount of contexts? #eltchat
esolcourses 2:21 PM @Shaunwilden was more thinking of grammar presented in an artificial way that students wouldn't really get to use in real life #ELTChat
BethCagnol 2:21 PM I think some tchs like teaching grammar mathematically b/c it's easier to test it. #ELTChat
BobK99 2:21 PM RT @gknightbkk: My Ss saying "Speed down" have a lexical problem not a grammatical one #eltchat! Gd case in point: that vocable has grammar
ann_f 2:21 PM An explanation of mathematical method?  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:21 PM RT @BethCagnol: I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat
AlexandraKouk 2:22 PM RT @hartle: Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat > yes, collocations 4 adva… (cont) http://deck.ly/~RZCLk
ann_f 2:22 PM Didn't go down well with my stds RT @hartle: Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:22 PM RT @NikkiFortova: @hartle I agree that concordancing is useful to see who words are "friends" with #ELTchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:22 PM @bethcagnol the thing is sometimes we cannot find enough source here to put the students in understanding both #ELTChat
rliberni 2:22 PM @OUPELTGlobal I think it depends on level more advanced need broader contexts & can compare usages, lower level might get confused #eltchat
teachingenglish 2:23 PM Looked at examples & discussed RT @hartle: RT @ann_f: Didn't go down well with my std#eltchat What did you do? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:23 PM RT @BethCagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat
BethCagnol 2:23 PM @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat
KarenInGreece 2:23 PM @hartle Does anyone use concordance searches when teaching vocabulary? #eltchat No but I'd like to try it
rliberni 2:23 PM @MissLadyCaz oh not too bad then #eltchat
BobK99 2:24 PM RT @hartle: I use BNC concordance searches and  ... higher levels) lists need to be vetted but very useful #eltchat! Me too .../
hartle 2:24 PM http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat
rliberni 2:24 PM @hartle  can you give us links? #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:24 PM RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice
celta_guide 2:24 PM RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice
ann_f 2:24 PM identity crisis here! #eltchat
teachingenglish 2:24 PM identity crisis here! #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:24 PM RT @BethCagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat  I like that! Thanks
hartle 2:24 PM I use BNC concordance searches and  merican Corpus too (at higher levels) lists need to be vetted but very useful #eltchat
hartle 2:25 PM RT @marcusmurilo: it can be difficult to get ss used to concordances because of the novelty ..  #eltchat yes U need to play about with them
marcusmurilo 2:25 PM as a NNEST myself i often used concordances to sort out my own linguistic problems... ;) #eltchat
chucksandy 2:25 PM RT @MissLadyCaz Context is so important.Otherwise its a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. <wow #eltchat
hartle 2:25 PM RT @sandymillin: RT @Shaunwilden: a clear explanation of lexical priming http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat <excellent yes great
marcusmurilo 2:25 PM it can be difficult to get ss used to concordances because of the novelty factor, but seems to be an effective tool  #eltchat
rliberni 2:25 PM RT @hartle: http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat
rliberni 2:25 PM RT @chriscattaneo: RT@MissLadyCaz:Context is so important.Otherwise it's a blind and meaningless journey into a variety of unknown words/phrases. #eltchat Nice
sandymillin 2:25 PM RT @Shaunwilden: a clear explanation of lexical priming http://bit.ly/m3lF8c #eltchat <excellent
rliberni 2:26 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin If you want an excellent & challenging read I recommend the book Lexical Priming by Michael Hoey #eltchat
rliberni 2:26 PM RT @Marisa_C: Grammaticalised lexis vs lexicalised grammar is a very clever construct but then no one written a lexicalised grammar book #ELTchat
marcusmurilo 2:26 PM RT @sandymillin: @thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:26 PM @sandymillin If you want an excellent & challenging read I recommend the book Lexical Priming by Michael Hoey #eltchat
rliberni 2:26 PM RT @sandymillin: @thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat
sandymillin 2:26 PM @thornburyscott started from 100 common words and looked at their grammar: http://amzn.to/lfcQdn might help? #eltchat
Marisa_C 2:26 PM Grammaticalised lexis vs lexicalised grammar is a very clever construct but then no one written a lexicalised grammar book #ELTchat
gknightbkk 2:26 PM @shaunwilden Thanks for the Michael Hoey link. He's a genius when it comes to seeing lexical patterns in discourse #eltchat
rliberni 2:26 PM My strategy is simple where, how and why do we use this then I build around it - grammar and vocab #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:26 PM RT @hartle: http://bit.ly/QcbSg this is the link to the American Corpus #eltchat > yep!
hartle 2:27 PM This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:27 PM here's the link for hoey's lexical priming as @Shaunwilden recommended http://amzn.to/ivOQmp #eltchat
cherrymp 2:27 PM facing connectivity issues - missing sth really interesting - trying to catch up #eltchat
Marisa_C 2:27 PM @gknightbkk Lexical patterns in discourse are a part of any study of textual cohesion - so perhaps this is where it is  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:28 PM @sandymillin I would have included it but it would have made a long tweet ;-) #eltchat
Marisa_C 2:28 PM @sandymillin And after you looked at their grammar what did you do ? :-o ? #eltchat
sandymillin 2:28 PM @hartle I use concordance searches (www.natcorp.ox.ac.uk and lextutor.ca) with advanced SS, but depends on word/net access! #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:28 PM RT @BethCagnol: I think there's a time and a place for mathematical and lexical grammar teaching. Both should be used. #ELTChat
rliberni 2:28 PM RT @hartle: This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84  #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:28 PM RT @hartle: RT @hartle: This is my video on basic collocation for Italian stds but useful 4 everyone ht#tp://youtu.be/bEwaVW858_I collocation #eltchat
sandymillin 2:28 PM http://bit.ly/l3MoHv Ask WHY first (not how/what) - helping out students to study better and find their #motivation #eltchat #efl #esl #esol
Shaunwilden 2:29 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
cherrymp 2:29 PM Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:29 PM @sandymillin Arh but then it loses context in the melee of #eltchat ;-)
sandymillin 2:29 PM @hartle do you have any examples of the worksheets you could share? #eltchat
gknightbkk 2:29 PM @Marisa_C Yes. Cohesion and coherence in discourse are vital to understanding meaning beyond the sentence level. #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:29 PM @hartle that's very interesting. i think there are few teachers out there teaching their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat
sandymillin 2:29 PM @Marisa_C sorry, where marisa? which grammar are you asking about? #eltchat
MissLadyCaz 2:29 PM I find that many discussions and reiterations help my ESL learners to become more confident in using new words in correct contexts. #eltchat
hartle 2:29 PM RT @sandymillin: @hartle I use concordance searche.. #eltchat Yes access can be a prob. I often do searches in advance & thn make worksheets
sandymillin 2:29 PM @Shaunwilden that's what separate tweets are for! :p #eltchat
rliberni 2:29 PM @LogicalChoice  I'm not sure I really meant that I think these boxes make little sense as language mixes together #eltchat
DaveDodgson 2:29 PM New blog post: Positive Reflections: 5 things I’ve done better this year http://bit.ly/lsKxFM #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2:30 PM RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
sandymillin 2:30 PM RT @bethcagnol: @OUPELTGlobal I call it "word sale" by one get three free. #eltchat<i like that, but some SS don't!
OUPELTGlobal 2:30 PM RT @marcusmurilo: @hartle  i think there are few teachers out there tchg their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:30 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
hartle 2:30 PM RT @sandymillin: @hartle do you have any examples of the worksheets you could share? #eltchat I'll jst look
hartle 2:30 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
hartle 2:30 PM RT @MissLadyCaz: I find that many discussions and reiterations help...#eltchat Yes, exposure and experimenting essential but noticing too
eyespeakbrasil 2:30 PM RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-)
Shaunwilden 2:30 PM This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-)
aClilToClimb 2:30 PM And the list keeps on growing :) Are you the next? http://iasku.wordpress.com/who/ #eltchat #esl #elt #efl #edchat
rliberni 2:31 PM @OUPELTGlobal I'm having the same thoughts - it all sounds a bit EAP to me #eltchat
Marisa_C 2:31 PM @hartle  #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' part that needs a systematic framework which at present does not exist
NikkiFortova 2:31 PM Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:31 PM I can't help but feel this would confuse sts, esp lower levels #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:31 PM here in Indonesia, we are accustomed to translate the whole sentence rather than just the core meaning  #ELTChat
BobK99 2:31 PM ... but vetting v imp: Tried a 'live' window on laptop  once :-( RT I use BNC concordance searches #eltchat (Apols fr long twt)
rliberni 2:31 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
DaveDodgson 2:31 PM RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :)
sandymillin 2:32 PM @rliberni sounds like a good strategy, but what do you use as a starting point? single vocab item, grammar point, text...? #eltchat
rliberni 2:32 PM RT @Shaunwilden: going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists  - I think we can explore ways to train learners  #eltchat
marcusmurilo 2:32 PM @yitzha_sarwono translating things verbatim is also a prob here in brazil. alas, guess Ts have to deal with that everywhere :( #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:32 PM going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar, going beyond “single word” lists  - I think we can explore ways to train learners  #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:32 PM RT @Marisa_C: @hartle #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' part that needs a systematic framework
rliberni 2:32 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat
rliberni 2:32 PM RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ to highlight how words link together #eltchat
rliberni 2:32 PM RT @chucksandy: @Shaunwilden  Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. 0ut of print: Any reason it never took off? #eltchat
cherrymp 2:32 PM Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat
ann_f 2:32 PM Anybody have ideas abt teaching core meaning to low levels? #eltchat
chucksandy 2:32 PM @Shaunwilden  Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. 0ut of print: Any reason it never took off? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:32 PM RT @NikkiFortova: Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat
sandymillin 2:32 PM I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ to highlight how words link together #eltchat
hartle 2:33 PM RT @Marisa_C: @hartle  #eltchat @MissLadyCaz: I think it's the 'noticing' ..systematic framework which at present does not exist, yes
Marisa_C 2:33 PM RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice!  #eltchat
hartle 2:33 PM My worksheets mainly on private uni wiki :-( but I'll do a blog post l8ter to give you them #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:33 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
cherrymp 2:33 PM Lexical Approach 2 from TE http://bit.ly/immOzW #eltchat
chucksandy 2:33 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice!  #eltchat
EveWeb 2:33 PM RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :)
yitzha_sarwono 2:34 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:34 PM RT @rliberni: @sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat
rliberni 2:34 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice!  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:34 PM RT @chucksandy: RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice!  #eltchat
rliberni 2:34 PM @sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat
EveWeb 2:34 PM RT @europeaantje: What do teachers DO on Twitter? A simple preso with some "exemplar tweets", no "howto" http://bit.ly/iWvgjS #eltchat #tesol #efl #esl
iainjfuller 2:34 PM If you need examples of the third conditional to express regret. 'Working without a visa' http://t.co/QfGr27T #elt #tefl #efl #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:35 PM SS keeping vocabulary records should help  #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2:35 PM @pjgallantry Greetings :-)  #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:35 PM RT @rliberni: @sandymillin the learner - what do they need to do, how do they have to function? Where are they and where they want to be #eltchat
chucksandy 2:35 PM collocations, lexical-ized grammar/grammarized lexis/ lots of content & meaningful tasks, yes: but really - corpora w/ beginners? #eltchat
esolcourses 2:35 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe <nice!  #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:35 PM #eltchat afternoon all - sorry to turn up late!
chiasuan 2:35 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
sandymillin 2:35 PM @rliberni OK, so do you e.g. take a word they use incorrectly, then examine what the correct grammar around it would be? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:35 PM RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: ths week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up 4 consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 <--- Voted :)
miladakrajewska 2:35 PM RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!'  http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol
Marisa_C 2:36 PM @sandymillin @rliberni  Essentially that's what WIllis says, teaching word grammar yes - but if feels messy & random #eltchat
sandymillin 2:36 PM @Shaunwilden encourage learners to write a sentence/short conversation for each new word they learn #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:36 PM Aren't we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:36 PM #eltchat I'm with @chucksandy -corpora in class is, I think, rather a specialised use and not for beginners
esolcourses 2:36 PM a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2:36 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help  #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than  a list
sandymillin 2:36 PM RT @ann_f: Anybody have ideas abt teaching core meaning to low levels? #eltchat
vickyloras 2:36 PM RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: Updates: #Facebook and #Twitter in #Classroom http://bit.ly/iVwfgL #edtech #finnedchat #fb4ed #eduswe #eltchat #edchat
Ilotimo 2:36 PM NEW POST: Prezi part 2 - in Classroom http://bit.ly/jYT5SU #edtech #edtech20 #edchat #eduswe #ukedchat #prezi #elmchat #eltchat
hartle 2:37 PM RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ  #eltchat Really useful
juanalejandro26 2:37 PM RT @chucksandy: RT @OUPELTGlobal: Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat
KarenInGreece 2:37 PM RT @NikkiFortova: Here's a link to a free online course in using corpora in ELT http://bit.ly/m6yiXe #ELTchat
rliberni 2:37 PM RT @esolcourses: a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat
esolcourses 2:37 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical Approach 1 from TE http://bit.ly/kIwwIv #eltchat
chucksandy 2:37 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:37 PM @juanalejandro26 Not quite :-)  #eltchat
rliberni 2:37 PM @sandymillin oops I could do with some lexical grammar - where they are now and where they want to be #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:37 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help  #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than  a list
ann_f 2:37 PM RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help. Can u explain more? #ELTchat
KarenInGreece 2:37 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @marcusmurilo: @hartle  i think there are few teachers out there tchg their ss to make effective use of dictionaries. #eltchat
juanalejandro26 2:37 PM let me see if I got today's idea. you're talking about how to teach vocabulary in advanced levels, aren't you? #ELTChat
Shaunwilden 2:37 PM @OUPELTGlobal  How do you mean?  #eltchat
EveWeb 2:37 PM RT @ysmcu: If someone interested in "Intrinsic & Extrinsic Motivation",please look my site:) http://t.co/962QROo but this's only for beginner. #eltchat
chucksandy 2:38 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: ...ss look for images they associate w/ the word & then share it in class.The different associations are amazing! #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:38 PM RT @hartle: RT @sandymillin: I also use corpuses alongside Oxford Collocations Dictionary online http://bit.ly/lEJYqZ #eltchat Really useful
KarenInGreece 2:38 PM @AlexandraKouk SS keeping vocabulary records should help #ELTchat I agree, this is important
hartle 2:38 PM RT @chucksandy: @Shaunwilden  Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci <brings back memories. #eltchat Not systematic enough
juanalejandro26 2:38 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: I have my sts look for images they associate with the word and then share it in class. The different associations are amazing! #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:38 PM #eltchat simple example of lexical grammar - adjective synonyms/antonyms that use the same preposition, e.g. good/brilliant/bad at(doing st)
AlexandraKouk 2:38 PM @ann_f then they could have more choice on how to record items + their usage  #ELTchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:38 PM I have my sts look for images they associate with the word and then share it in class. The different associations are amazing! #eltchat
esolcourses 2:38 PM RT @DaveDodgson: RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-) <--- Voted :)
pjgallantry 2:39 PM #eltchat how would you place lexical grammar in approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc?
rliberni 2:39 PM @juanalejandro26 it's about a lexical-grammar approach rather than single word lists #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:39 PM @OUPELTGlobal Very kinaesthetic :-) #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:39 PM now there's a thought ^^ RT @OUPELTGlobal  Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? #ELTChat
cherrymp 2:39 PM Taking a lexical approach to teaching: principles and problems http://bit.ly/lsOfxH #eltchat
chiasuan 2:39 PM I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat
hartle 2:39 PM RT @Shaunwilden: going back to the whole topic ..lexical grammar...#eltchat Yes, simply train learners to notice what goes with words
domi75P 2:39 PM RT @esolcourses: RT @chucksandy RT @OUPELTGlobal Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat
rliberni 2:39 PM @Marisa_C with classes  I can see this, with 1:1 & small groups it is messy & random anyway as it's about their individual desires #eltchat
juanalejandro26 2:39 PM I don't know what the topic is, but what you're saying is interesting as usual! #ELTChat
esolcourses 2:39 PM RT @chucksandy RT @OUPELTGlobal Arent we in danger here of teaching ABOUT the language and not the language itself? < hear, hear ^^ #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:39 PM RT @carldowse:vid stories 4 business English- #besig nxt wknd Workshop w/ Jamie Keddie is just a week away http://ht.ly/5fPay #elt  #ELTchat
eyespeakbrasil 2:39 PM RT @ysmcu: If someone interested in "Intrinsic & Extrinsic Motivation",please look my site:) http://t.co/962QROo but this's only for beginner. #eltchat
sandymillin 2:39 PM RT @harrisonmike: From #eltchat to teachers in local authority ESOL-nice comment frm @Kate_Millin on my blog =) http://bit.ly/lB6NVi:TY mum!
harrisonmike 2:39 PM From #eltchat to teachers in local authority ESOL - nice comment from Kate Millin on my blog =) http://t.co/1hPx76S
LUZBEGO 2:40 PM RT @hartle: This is a video I made on collocation in EAP for uni stds using the Longman Dictionary http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSMX7HCLw84  #eltchat
juanalejandro26 2:40 PM @OUPELTGlobal it is!!! it's juts I arrived late... AGAIN!!! #ELTChat
hartle 2:40 PM RT @chucksandy: RT @AlexandraKouk: RT @NikkiFortova: Heres a link to a free online course ...#eltchat great
Marisa_C 2:40 PM @juanalejandro26 We're trying to get to grips with our topic ourselves! :-D  Brainstorming may help generate some useful ideas  #ELTChat
sandymillin 2:40 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat simple example of lexical grammar - adjective synonyms/antonyms that use the same preposition, e.g. good/brilliant/bad at(doing st)
OUPELTGlobal 2:40 PM @juanalejandro26 I'm not sure that's a compliment LOL #eltchat
rliberni 2:40 PM RT @cherrymp: Taking a lexical approach to teaching: principles and problems http://bit.ly/lsOfxH #eltchat
LUZBEGO 2:40 PM RT @Marisa_C: RT @hartle: RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
BethCagnol 2:41 PM RT @chiasuan: I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat
hartle 2:41 PM RT @sandymillin: @rliberni OK, so do you e.g. take a word they use incorrectly, then..#eltchat yes! cd be collocation prob, wrong syntax etc
Marisa_C 2:41 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat how would you place lexical grammar in approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc?
ann_f 2:41 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat In approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? Focussing on the language that comes from ss?
OUPELTGlobal 2:41 PM @chriscattaneo and visual and the sharing of the images adds different contexts to different sts #eltchat
chiasuan 2:42 PM Many tend2apply our own learnin prefrnces when teachin.A teachr I knw learnt a lang purely by pickin up phrases&so teach lexically. #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:42 PM @OUPELTGlobal some sts don't understand the associations and the explanations and interaction strengthen the learning #eltchat
hartle 2:42 PM Basically learners need to notice lang. in context, common collocations etc. and then use them #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:42 PM RT @chiasuan: I agree with @bethcagnol. We shld adjust our approach to diff learners. Some learn more organically, & some more systematically. #eltchat
rliberni 2:42 PM @sandymillin not really more take a context in which they need to function , c what's happening and then either develop or correct #eltchat
cherrymp 2:42 PM Lexical Approach Classroom Activities http://bit.ly/jDmF4P #eltchat
rliberni 2:43 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, but it's all student output/correction: where's the input?
hartle 2:43 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @AlexandraKouk: SS keeping vocabulary records should help  #ELTchat Yes and exploring ways for them to keep records other than  a list
sandymillin 2:43 PM #eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them
pjgallantry 2:43 PM #eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, but it's all student output/correction: where's the input?
hartle 2:43 PM RT @chucksandy: collocations, lexical-ized grammar/grammarized...#eltchat probably corpora not good with beginners but awareness yes
Mbarek 2:43 PM Happy Wednesday to everyone at #eltchat , just lurking :-)
sandymillin 2:43 PM Do any of you teach without explaining grammar explicitly at all? (what I think of as 'pure' lexical approach - could be wrong!) #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:44 PM @sandymillin in that case yes, my last class was advanced & had no gram lessons-just lexically driven ones that might touch upon g. #eltchat
hartle 2:44 PM RT @juanalejandro26: let me see if I got today's idea. you're talking about...#ELTChat not really advanced, but going beyond single words
juanalejandro26 2:44 PM @sandymillin #ELTChat it depends on the level. if it's an advanced level, you can teach without explaining grammar. I do it!
rliberni 2:44 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat
sandymillin 2:44 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin I do unless I see some sts feeling uncomfortable. #eltchat>never learnt like this, so don't know hw 2 do it?
chiasuan 2:44 PM @pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat
ann_f 2:44 PM RT @sandymillin: #eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them. Agree ^^
OUPELTGlobal 2:44 PM @sandymillin I do unless I see some sts feeling uncomfortable. #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:44 PM @sandymillin depends on the class really - some SS need a more explicit approach, others don't  #ELTchat
vickyloras 2:44 PM RT @miladakrajewska: RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!'  http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol
chucksandy 2:45 PM RT @hartle: Willis/Lewis fathers of lexical syllabi led to others' work tho mostly academic & really isn't it tangental to lang ed? #eltchat
chiasuan 2:45 PM @pjgallantry There's always a way of feeding in & dealing with emergent language and extending it with Lexical Approach ideas. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:45 PM @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat
apuustin 2:45 PM RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: New features of Prezi and Prezi for Ipad  http://bit.ly/kxUblx  #edtech #finnedchat #edchat #eduswe #Ipad #eltchat
hartle 2:45 PM RT @ann_f: RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat In approaches such as TBL, Unplugged etc? Focussing on the language that comes from ss? yes
sandymillin 2:45 PM @Shaunwilden @juanalejandro26 With advanced, I think I teach like this too, but what about low levels (beg/elem)<need rules? #eltchat
NikkiFortova 2:45 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: I believe we all have a naturally ability to learn languages and we didn't do it through gram exs. and vocab lists #eltchat
cherrymp 2:45 PM readymade chunks help Ss in attending to the meaning rather than worrying abt language esp FL learners #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:45 PM I believe we all have a naturally ability to learn languages and we didn't do it through gram exs. and vocab lists #eltchat
hartle 2:46 PM RT @yitzha_sarwono: I think teaching Lexical needs some sort of barrier on how not to be trapped ...#ELTChat error analysis to noticing exs
juanalejandro26 2:46 PM @sandymillin yes, they need to build their base. they need to know what the structures are. but it's not a must!! #ELTChat
sandymillin 2:46 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat<fair enough, but how do you help SS to see this? and how to teach w/o rules? :)
rliberni 2:46 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:46 PM @chiasuan that's true, but the issue there may be one of sufficient input of new lexis - does it make for a large teacher workload? #eltchat
rliberni 2:46 PM @juanalejandro26 I find most of my advanced students actually want to talk  about grammar it gives them a prop (may be age tho) #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:46 PM @sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat
seburnt 2:46 PM RT @miladakrajewska: RT @lessonstream: Just blogged: 'Hey You!'  http://bit.ly/itnn48 #eltchat #elt #tefl #iatefl #tesol
hartle 2:47 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat true, lexical grammar does lend itself well to TBL, ... input comes after error analysis, then experiment
sandymillin 2:47 PM @OUPELTGlobal please prove me wrong! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:47 PM @sandymillin let them find the patterns  - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-)  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:47 PM @OUPELTGlobal OK, but how different is L1 and L2 learning? L1 is list-less (!), but L2 can be hard to do it this way IMO #eltchat
chiasuan 2:47 PM @pjgallantry I think tht's a common misconceptn abt workin with st output. Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2:47 PM made a correction to my previous tweet   #ELTChat
cherrymp 2:47 PM #eltchat RT @Marisa_C: The actual methodology of the lexical approach is not far removed from TBL - gramma… (cont) http://deck.ly/~nNcXn
rliberni 2:47 PM @juanalejandro26 I agree about building a base without this how can they build up their performance? #eltchat
sandymillin 2:48 PM @Shaunwilden like idea of letting SS find patterns, but grouping lang 4 low-level SS to do this maybe difficult w/o special CBs?  #eltchat
cherrymp 2:48 PM even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat
ann_f 2:48 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat Absoultely!
pjgallantry 2:48 PM #eltchat OK, when dealing with lexis & lexical grammar, we also have to deal with the 'rules' of register/style - how to make ss aware?
rliberni 2:48 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns  - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-)  #eltchat
hartle 2:48 PM RT @sandymillin: #eltchat i.e. teaching vocabulary chunks and helping students realise when they could use them
Shaunwilden 2:48 PM RT @mcneilmahon: Isn't this how we teach kids? It's how I learnt Spanish in Arg, but adults in NESEs need some focus on structure #eltchat
ann_f 2:49 PM RT @cherrymp: even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat But that's true abt everything
rliberni 2:49 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: In other words, when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? #eltchat
juanalejandro26 2:49 PM @rliberni but here it comes a question. how do we have to teach grammar in lower levels? for me it's difficult! I feel ambiguous #ELTChat
OUPELTGlobal 2:49 PM In other words, when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:49 PM RT @BobK99: RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club:  you don't talk about rules. :-) lol
rliberni 2:49 PM RT @BobK99: RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club:  you don't talk about rules. :-)
cherrymp 2:49 PM @ChrisCattaneo @pjgallantry that's y sme say 'teacher is the method' #eltchat
BobK99 2:49 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin There are no rules #eltchat ! The first rule about rule club:  you don't talk about rules. :-)
OUPELTGlobal 2:49 PM @sandymillin I agree and older sts can bring new tools to learning. But I'm weary of interefering with their natural abilities #eltchat
rliberni 2:49 PM RT @chriscattaneo: Discovery of patterns with or without the guidance? #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:49 PM Discovery of patterns with or without the guidance? #eltchat
chiasuan 2:49 PM @pjgallantry I think whther it's TBL or Dogme,it depends on the tchers' approach & seizing opportunities to work on emergent lang. #eltchat.
chriscattaneo 2:50 PM @OUPELTGlobal more often than it should !  #eltchat
chucksandy 2:50 PM RT @rliberni: RT @OUPELTGlobal: In other words,when does teaching interfere with A sts learning? <most of the time,I sometime think #eltchat
sandymillin 2:50 PM RT:@rliberni: @juanalejandro26 most of my advanced students want to talk  about grammar it gives them a prop (may be age tho) #eltchat<here2
BethCagnol 2:50 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think an unplugged approach allows 4 both lexicalisd grammr & grammaticlisd lexis dependin on the teachr & learners. #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:50 PM @sandymillin grouping? Sorry lost thread #eltchat
cherrymp 2:50 PM @ann_f rt ann - input is not equal to intake #eltchat
hartle 2:50 PM Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice
pjgallantry 2:50 PM @chiasuan that's true of any approach though, surely? #eltchat
LUZBEGO 2:50 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns  - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-)  #eltchat
miladakrajewska 2:50 PM RT @CELT_Athens: Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat
CELT_Athens 2:50 PM Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:51 PM @sandymillin I think meeting sts' expectations is important, if they want grammar, it's our starting point #eltchat
rliberni 2:51 PM @juanalejandro26 I think at lower levels we use context more and the grammar is part of that context but depends on ur stds #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:51 PM RT @hartle: Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice
sandymillin 2:51 PM @Shaunwilden i.e. if u want SS to find patterns, oft low-level txts have 2 many lang. points:how 2 highlight to SS which 2 focus on #eltchat
chiasuan 2:51 PM Pure TBLT does not supprt preteaching since learning isn't linear,but dictaphones allow sts2listen2their tasks again& self-correct. #eltchat
hartle 2:51 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin that makes sense, we do what we feel comfortable. Our conviction is also a great teaching tool. #eltchat
hartle 2:52 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin let them find the patterns  - rule is just a term of convenience language has patterns and generalizations :-)  #eltchat
rliberni 2:52 PM @juanalejandro26 my students are all adults who need to use English daily diff from students who are taking exams for example #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:52 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
chucksandy 2:52 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it... < nice #eltchat
hartle 2:52 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think tht's a common misconceptn abt workin with st output. Output is reformulatd,extendd &worked on &becomes input. #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:52 PM @hartle:Teaching chunks not words is a habit,I think not level related #eltchat ... teach"shower"or"have a shower"&ask stds to notice. AGREE
ESOLish 2:52 PM RT @esolcourses: a couple of articles by @thornburyscott on lexical grammar: (part 1) http://bit.ly/ijD9Al & (part 2) http://bit.ly/kJrElu #ELTchat
Shaunwilden 2:52 PM @sandymillin So for go by verb itself - underline all the have or get etc #eltchat
hartle 2:52 PM RT @rliberni: @juanalejandro26 #eltchat grammar is a "teddy bear" reassuring but most of my adv. stds have more trouble with lexis
chiasuan 2:52 PM @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
cherrymp 2:52 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin I think meeting sts' expectations is important, if they want grammar, it's our starting point #eltchat>true
AlexandraKouk 2:52 PM RT @Ilotimo: NEW POST: Updates: #Facebook & #Twitter in #Classroom http://bit.ly/iVwfgL #edtech #fb4ed #eduswe #eltchat #edchat #aplanet
vickyloras 2:52 PM RT @CELT_Athens: Voting is open for this week’s #eltchat on June 15th http://bit.ly/ipJIvB #ELTchat
BethCagnol 2:53 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
sandymillin 2:53 PM RT @hartle: Teaching chunks not words is a habit, I think not level related #eltchat I can teach "shower" or "have a shower" and ask stds to notice
hartle 2:53 PM RT @cherrymp: even wen corrections r given it's not necessary that Ss learn them #eltchat so extend and experiment
BethCagnol 2:53 PM Doctors taking their English exam. Sorry I could participate more. #ELTChat CU 2nite!
NikkiFortova 2:53 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
sandymillin 2:54 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
chriscattaneo 2:54 PM @cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin  what about asking why they want it? #eltchat
hartle 2:54 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry I think... seizing opportunities to work on emergent lang. #eltchat. Absolutely
AlexandraKouk 2:54 PM RT @pjgallantry: is dealing w/ lexical grammar abt 'providing' it or 'managing' it, w/ both T&S occupying provider/manager roles? #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:54 PM RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat
cherrymp 2:54 PM @hartle mmm. bt learner readiness is wt i'm ref to - dey learn if dey want to - u cannot force things in #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:54 PM RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:54 PM is dealing with lexical grammar about 'providing' it or 'managing' it, with both T&S occupying provider/manager roles? #eltchat
sandymillin 2:54 PM @hartle 'shower'...fair enough, but can you do this with every word you teach? or at least most of them? #eltchat
AlexandraKouk 2:54 PM RT @mcneilmahon: @rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical!  #eltchat
hartle 2:54 PM Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat
mcneilmahon 2:54 PM @rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical!  #eltchat
BobK99 2:54 PM RT @sandymillin: RT:@rliberni: @juanalejandro26 most of my adv sts ...it gives them a prop..  #eltchat<ut comes a time to lose the crutches!
ESOLish 2:54 PM RT @cherrymp: Lexical syllabus, Dave Willis http://bit.ly/ih0Zci #eltchat
naomi_moir 2:54 PM RT @Shaunwilden: This week's #eltchat poll is now open, 8 topics up for consideration http://bit.ly/iVITW1 get voting :-)
cherrymp 2:55 PM @ChrisCattaneo @cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin  what about asking why they want it? #eltchat - thts a gud pt
OUPELTGlobal 2:55 PM @chriscattaneo I've asked and they shrug their shoulders thinking it's a silly question. What else does a lang techr teach? #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:55 PM RT @chriscattaneo: @cherrymp @oupeltglobal @sandymillin  what about asking why they want it? #eltchat
rliberni 2:55 PM @hartle  grammar is more finite in a way (we can 'do' it) lexis is more infinite in terms of breadth of usage which makes it harder #eltchat
sandymillin 2:55 PM RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin So for go by verb itself - underline all the have or get etc #eltchat
mcneilmahon 2:55 PM RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat Completely agree
esolcourses 2:55 PM RT @vickyloras: The Day Coldplay Came To Our Classroom - A Lesson Plan on "Clocks": http://wp.me/pIrrb-bk #ELTChat #esl #efl #esol http://wp.me/pIrrb-bk
mcneilmahon 2:56 PM @rliberni so do we continue to take the easy (finite) way out?  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:56 PM @rliberni had a SS who is doing CAE exam right now - thought he could learn list of all English collocations over the past week! #eltchat
yitzha_sarwono 2:56 PM RT @hartle Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat >> I 2nd that ^^
Shaunwilden 2:56 PM @OUPELTGlobal But you need to do it regularly so they get used to it ,asking once they will be confused ask again sb might say #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:57 PM RT @juanalejandro26: once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't learn Spanish (mother tongue) by learning grammar" and... it's true #ELTChat
pjgallantry 2:57 PM RT @rliberni @hartle...lexis is more infinite in terms of breadth of usage which makes it harder #eltchat <good point
Shaunwilden 2:57 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Shaunwilden and show alternatives. You need to guide them and support them.  #eltchat - Totally :-)
juanalejandro26 2:57 PM once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't learn Spanish (mother tongue) by learning grammar" and... it's true #ELTChat
cherrymp 2:57 PM @rliberni bt even in d usage isn't there a finiteness? #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:57 PM @Shaunwilden and show alternatives. You need to guide them and support them.  #eltchat
rliberni 2:57 PM @mcneilmahon what I'm trying to say is that my students need something v immediate e.g. for tomorrow's meeting or conference #eltchat
hartle 2:57 PM RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin ... if they want grammar..#eltchat but .they have trouble with lexis, coz they didn't know it's important
ShellTerrell 2:57 PM Cool summary of news by @AlexandraKouk http://smf.is/1tKLFS #eltchat #ellchat
ISILBOY 2:57 PM New blog post by @DaveDodgson : Positive Reflections: 5 things I’ve done better this year http://t.co/kzxV6A6 #ELTchat
OUPELTGlobal 2:58 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @juanalejandro26: once a ss asked me "Why grammar? we didn't mother tongue by gramr" and... it's true #ELTChat #eltchat
esolcourses 2:58 PM RT @Shaunwilden: RT @hartle: Error correction needs to become not just correction but input with reformulation and experimenting #eltchat
erumiqocik 2:58 PM RT @teachingenglish: Looked at examples & discussed RT @hartle: RT @ann_f: Didn't go down well with my std#eltchat What did you do? #eltchat
MissLadyCaz 2:58 PM RT @chiasuan: @pjgallantry Absolutely! My MA teacher once said 'An approach is only as good as the teacher who employs it'... #eltchat
hartle 2:58 PM RT @mcneilmahon: @rliberni but exams are more and more lexicalised - CPE & CPE are very lexical!  #eltchat Absolutely
erumiqocik 2:58 PM RT @teachingenglish: identity crisis here! #eltchat
mcneilmahon 2:58 PM @rliberni so they need finite lexis of conferences much more than grammar :)  #eltchat
sandymillin 2:58 PM @hartle this is what I struggle with. know grammar/lexis both v. important, but never know how to combine thm so SS remember #eltchat
BobK99 2:58 PM RT @sandymillin: @rliberni had a SS who is doing CAE exam right now - thought he ...#eltchat! Aw. Bless.
cherrymp 2:58 PM @juanalejandro26 bt dey ddnt evn know dat dey were learning - rt? #eltchat
rliberni 2:58 PM @mcneilmahon not suggesting that just trying to see why students like the comfort of  grammar #eltchat
sandymillin 2:59 PM RT @juanalejandro26: @cherrymp but, can we create a way to teach a new language without teaching grammar? just with context? #ELTChat I guess it does exist
chriscattaneo 2:59 PM Grammar is seen to be more 'right or wrong', or black or white. Lexis oozes with  various shades of grey  #eltchat
Shaunwilden 2:59 PM RT @ann_f: So biteable chuncks, ss output>input and whatever methodology that suits? #eltchat
hartle 2:59 PM RT @cherrymp: @hartle mmm. bt learner readiness is wt i'm ref to - dey learn if dey want to - u cannot force things in #eltchat why shd U?
juanalejandro26 2:59 PM @cherrymp but, can we create a way to teach a new language without teaching grammar? just with context? #ELTChat I guess it does exist
ann_f 2:59 PM So biteable chuncks, ss output>input and whatever methodology that suits? #eltchat
pjgallantry 2:59 PM #eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is activating ss awareness of patterns and links within language
hartle 2:59 PM RT @sandymillin: @hartle can you do this with every word you teach? or at least most of them? #eltchat yes, if you teach chunks not words
erumiqocik 2:59 PM RT @teachingenglish: Find chunks, collocations easier to swallow RT @Shaunwilden: @ann_f I dont think so i think is the collocations, chunks etc #eltchat
Shaunwilden 3:00 PM @ChrisCattaneo e.g. take the whole area of talking about the future #eltchat
rliberni 3:00 PM @mcneilmahon yes, they do for sure - they ask for it #eltchat
sandymillin 3:00 PM As a lang learner I find idea of only learning lexical chunks diffclt>whereas 1 grammatical pattern can be applied in 100s of sit's #eltchat
Shaunwilden 3:00 PM @ChrisCattaneo really? And yet grammar is so grey #eltchat
BobK99 3:00 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is activating ss awareness of patterns and links within language! Yup.
rliberni 3:00 PM @mcneilmahon no, no not about lexis or grammar  just about how do I do this  now or tomorrow or next week & keep my job! #eltchat
mcneilmahon 3:00 PM @rliberni but do they? Or is it the teachers & coursebook authors?  My SS much prefer new lexis 2 old grammar they still can't get  #eltchat
OUPELTGlobal 3:00 PM RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat A lot of lexical grammar is ACTIVATING ss awareness of patterns and links within language
EnglishOutThere 3:00 PM They're used to it RT @rliberni: @mcneilmahon not suggesting that just trying to see why students like the comfort of  grammar #eltchat
hartle 3:01 PM RT @rliberni: @hartle  lexis is more infinite  #eltchat Yes, I like the lexical dimension nt approach, awareness not prescription
OUPELTGlobal 3:01 PM Thanks every1 for a great chat, inspiring as usual. Thanks to the moderators - difficult topic - great job. Goota go! #eltchat
Shaunwilden 3:01 PM @OUPELTGlobal Bye have a good afternoon #eltchat

 

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