| Shaunwilden |
2:00 PM |
It's #eltchat time - What stops many adult learners from progressing beyond intermediate levvl? Is there a barrier? |
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| cioccas |
2:01 PM |
My tweets for next hour devoted to #eltchat on What stops many adult learners from progressing beyond intermediate level? |
| Shaunwilden |
2:01 PM |
Moderators today are @englishraven @rliberni @Shaunwilden and @yitzha_sarwono if you need any help just send us a message #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:01 PM |
RT @cioccas: Extensive coverage here: 'Moving Beyond the Plateau' Jack C. Richards PDF: http://bit.ly/jq2K9C Video: http://bit.ly/kITD07 #ELTchat |
| esolcourses |
2:02 PM |
RT @cioccas: My tweets for next hour devoted to #eltchat on What stops many adult learners from progressing beyond intermediate level? |
| englishraven |
2:02 PM |
In my experience, it's been more of a 'giving up'/'run out of time' thing than anything biological... #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:02 PM |
RT @cioccas: Extensive coverage here: 'Moving Beyond the Plateau' Jack C. Richards PDF: http://bit.ly/jq2K9C Video: http://bit.ly/kITD07 #ELTchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:02 PM |
RT @nickkiley: #eltchat I often hear discussed that Ss may have reached a level of communicative competence that is satisfactory, so lose motivation |
| nickkiley |
2:02 PM |
#eltchat I often hear discussed that Ss may have reached a level of communicative competence that is satisfactory, so lose motivation |
| englishraven |
2:03 PM |
@nickkiley That, and/or a realisation that it's just too much/too hard to bother with from Int. #ELTChat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:03 PM |
RT @rliberni: Maybe Intermediate is simply good enough for most people's needs? #eltchat Oh that's an interesting thought, maybe it is |
| naomishema |
2:03 PM |
RT @esolcourses: I think once learners hit intermediate level, they can get by in most situations & sometimes decide they don't *need* to improve #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:03 PM |
I think once learners hit intermediate level, they can get by in most situations & sometimes decide they don't *need* to improve #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:04 PM |
@esolcourses agree. that what most happen here too #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:04 PM |
@englishraven Agree here too it starts to get much more tricky after intermediate & more time-consuming #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:04 PM |
@rliberni think spiky profiles can also be a barrier... for example, poor writing skills can hold some s's back from progressing #eltchat |
| nickkiley |
2:04 PM |
#eltchat Yet we have studies who study beyond int level, but seem to slow down (maybe as @englishraven says) |
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| englishraven |
2:04 PM |
@rliberni @esolcourses Think what you describe certainly accounts for ESL/ESOL contexts. EFL rather different reasons, I think. #ELTChat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:04 PM |
#eltchat I think a lack of motivation and interest is what stops most learners from progressing beyond the intermediate level |
| harrisonmike |
2:04 PM |
Have fun #ELTchat. I'll be there for the 9pm one |
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| worldteacher |
2:04 PM |
Agree that sts are often happy to have reached intermediate level & aren't motivated to progress further #eltchat |
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| Thamesville |
2:04 PM |
Once adult students gain communicative ability- they plateau. Aim for fluency at this stage and they get excited again. #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:04 PM |
@nickkiley Yup, that's what I see and hear too, lose motivation once achieve communicative competence and can function in language #ELTchat |
| esolcourses |
2:04 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Moderators today are @englishraven @rliberni @Shaunwilden and @yitzha_sarwono if you need any help just msg us #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
2:05 PM |
RT @nickkiley: #eltchat I often hear discussed that Ss may have reached a level of communicative competence that is satisfactory, so lose motivation |
| rliberni |
2:05 PM |
@esolcourses yes, you're right many upper int and advanced stds can be put off by having to do writing #eltchat |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:05 PM |
It's a human tendency to start a new thing with a lot of interest. Gradually, the interest wanes #eltchat |
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| ShellTerrell |
2:05 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Moderators today are @englishraven @rliberni @Shaunwilden and @yitzha_sarwono if you need any help just send us a message #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:05 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @rliberni spiky profiles can also be a barrier... eg, poor writing skills can hold some s's back from progressing #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:05 PM |
#eltchat One school i worked for claimed the jump from Int to another level was too high esp when using cours… (cont) http://deck.ly/~WnohL |
| BobK99 |
2:05 PM |
Catching up with #eltchat. With you all in a bit .... |
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| ShellTerrell |
2:05 PM |
RT @englishraven: In my experience, it's been more of a 'giving up'/'run out of time' thing than anything biological... #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:05 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: #eltchat I think a lack of motivation and interest is what stops most learners from progressing beyond the intermediate level |
| ShellTerrell |
2:05 PM |
RT @esolcourses: I think once learners hit intermediate level, they can get by in most situations & sometimes decide they don't *need* to improve #eltchat |
| ShellTerrell |
2:05 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @rliberni: Maybe Intermediate is simply good enough for most people's needs? #eltchat Oh that's an interesting thought, maybe it is |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:06 PM |
@hartle welcome to #eltchat |
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| naomishema |
2:06 PM |
RT @englishraven: @rliberni Agree. Much harder to feel/sense progress from Int.-Adv., as opposed to Beg.-Elem. and Elem.-Int. #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:06 PM |
@rliberni Agree. Much harder to feel/sense progress from Int.-Adv., as opposed to Beg.-Elem. and Elem.-Int. #ELTChat |
| esolcourses |
2:06 PM |
@englishraven @rliberni agree #EFL is different. Unmotivated EFL Learners are more likely to drop subject rather thanpersist #ELTChat |
| naomishema |
2:06 PM |
#eltchat Hi all! with EFL and really depends on the reason the learner chose to learn the lang in the first place! |
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| worldteacher |
2:06 PM |
Sometimes it just gets too difficult beyond int level - especially writing skills #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:06 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: It's a human tendency to start a new thing with a lot of interest. Gradually, the interest wanes #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:06 PM |
I think for ppl working here in the UK the cut-off tends to be more at upper int #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:06 PM |
Hi everyone, sorry I'm a bit late #eltchat |
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| ShellTerrell |
2:06 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: It's a human tendency to start a new thing with a lot of interest. Gradually, the interest wanes #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:06 PM |
RT @Thamesville: Once adult students gain communicative ability- they plateau. Aim for fluency at this stage and they get excited again. #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:07 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @rliberni: Maybe Intermediate is simply good enough for most people's needs? #eltchat In Italy in my context it's true |
| Shaunwilden |
2:07 PM |
@theteacherjames @rliberni @englishraven Agreed, a sense of frustration that they are not getting anywhere fast #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:07 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in It's a human tendency to start a new thing with a lot of interest. Gradually, the interest wanes #eltchat >> nicely said ^^ |
| rliberni |
2:07 PM |
@englishraven I've just been wking intensively with a CAE level std it was really hard work for both of us #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:07 PM |
RT @cioccas: In Australia, govt funding for migrant English courses runs out at intermediate level - a big drop-out after that, understandable #ELTchat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:07 PM |
Lack of commitment may be another reason for learners not progressing beyond the intermediate level #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:07 PM |
In Australia, govt funding for migrant English courses runs out at intermediate level - a big drop-out after that, understandable #ELTchat |
| esolcourses |
2:07 PM |
RT @rliberni: I think for ppl working here in the UK the cut-off tends to be more at upper int #eltchat ] partly agree, tho' depends on job |
| theteacherjames |
2:07 PM |
@rliberni @englishraven #eltchat A big problem is that improvement becomes much more incremental, it's more difficult to measure progress. |
| hartle |
2:08 PM |
Need is what motivates most people so if they have enough language to function that's ok #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:08 PM |
Many int sts have picked up bad habits in their English, but feel that if these are not hindering communication why try to improve? #eltchat |
| BobK99 |
2:08 PM |
RT @nickkiley: #eltchat... Ss may have reached a level of comm comp that is satisfactory, so lose motivation! Yeah, esp if cohabiting with / |
| esolcourses |
2:08 PM |
@rliberni also depends on whether they can afford private lang. tuition. Funded upper int courses aren't always easy to come by #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:08 PM |
@esolcourses true many of these are office based but not managers #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:08 PM |
@cioccas You are so right. As a teacher here (and married to a high-intermediate Student), I can totally attest to that. #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:09 PM |
RT @yearinthelifeof: How many people really need to go beyond int? #ELTChat Well doesnt that depend on y they are learning? |
| naomishema |
2:09 PM |
#eltchat If ss feel they are understood , mistakes and all, they aren't motivated to improve. |
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| theteacherjames |
2:09 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rliberni @englishraven Effort needed to make them realise that their progress is continuing, despite how it feels. #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:09 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @kavimenon_in: @cioccas Agree. Advance courses can be very expensive at times #eltchat yes money always an issue #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:09 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: @cioccas Agree. Advance courses can be very expensive at times #eltchat yes money always an issue |
| yearinthelifeof |
2:09 PM |
@theteacherjames @rliberni @englishraven How many people really need to go beyond int? #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:09 PM |
@esolcourses this is another problem most funded courses have to be exam based and that's not always relevant #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:09 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Many int sts have picked up bad habits in their English, but feel that if these are not hindering communication why try to improve? #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:09 PM |
@esolcourses What you just said aligns with my and @cioccas impressions here in Australia. :-) #ELTChat |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:09 PM |
@cioccas Agree. Advance courses can be very expensive at times #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:09 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: It's #eltchat time - What stops many adult learners from progressing beyond intermediate levvl? Is there a barrier? |
| cioccas |
2:10 PM |
Personally, I'd need a lot of motivation to go beyond intermediate in another language, so I understand the Ss who stop there #ELTchat |
| BobK99 |
2:10 PM |
@nickkiley: #eltchat.. /... with a 'Good enough' speaker who they don't want to leave behind for social/sexual reasons. Soc. b/g v imp. |
| rliberni |
2:10 PM |
RT @esolcourses: proposed UK #ESOL funding cuts will make it much more difficult for learners to find affordable courses at all levels #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
2:10 PM |
@yearinthelifeof @rliberni @englishraven It may be a smaller group, but it's large enough to consider. Business especially. #ELTChat |
| radhikananda |
2:10 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: It's a human tendency to start a new thing with a lot of interest. Gradually, the interest wanes #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:10 PM |
@kavimenon_in @cioccas agree, not only expensive here but also a bit hard to find as it's only on big city #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:10 PM |
@yearinthelifeof in my work all of them - that's why they come to me - it's make or break for their work #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:10 PM |
proposed UK #ESOL funding cuts will make it much more difficult for learners to find affordable courses at all levels #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:11 PM |
It's interesting to see how CB sales taper off sharply from Intermediate levels... #ELTChat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:11 PM |
@pjgallantry Better late than.....so why do you think they plateau? #eltchat |
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| naomishema |
2:11 PM |
#eltchat isn't the Internet also influencing drop out rates? Some ss feel they have learned enough in class to progress online on their own, |
| esolcourses |
2:11 PM |
@rliberni agree... often it is the wrong kind of exam for what the learners want/ and or need. Driven by funding, and not demand #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:11 PM |
RT @englishraven: Let's not assume that these learners just 'stop'. Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat |
| worldteacher |
2:11 PM |
Is there much out there for up-int & adv sts that isn't exam based? Many sts drop out at int level as they don't 'need' an exam #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:11 PM |
#eltchat thanks for choosing my topic, and sorry for being late to the party! |
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| englishraven |
2:11 PM |
Let's not assume that these learners just 'stop'. Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:11 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @rliberni @englishraven #eltchat A big problem is that improvement becomes much more incremental, it's more difficult to measure progress. |
| sandymillin |
2:12 PM |
@worldteacher For example, aving trouble teaching post-proficiency SS due to lack of non-CPE materials #eltchat |
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| T4lK2PaM |
2:12 PM |
Hi! in my opinion adult learners' lack of time & several responsabilities (work,children) interpose their motivation and knowledge #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:12 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: Maybe juts like in here,advance level is only meant when they want to be a professional on it a.k.a Teacher #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
2:12 PM |
@cioccas I'd need a lot of motivation to go beyond intermediate in another language, so I understand the Ss who stop there #ELTchat >me too! |
| pjgallantry |
2:12 PM |
#eltchat I suspect that many students, when reaching intermediate level, simply don't 'get' fluency... |
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| sandymillin |
2:12 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Is there much out there for up-int & adv sts that isn't exam based? Many sts drop out at int level as they don't 'need' an exam #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:12 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Sometimes it just gets too difficult beyond int level - especially writing skills #eltchat > Yes, nitty-gritty... |
| hartle |
2:12 PM |
In exams related discussions the level most often discussed is B1 rarely C1 or C2 #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:12 PM |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @englishraven: It's interesting to see how CB sales taper off sharply from Intermediate levels... #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:12 PM |
Maybe juts like in here,advance level is only meant when they want to be a professional on it a.k.a Teacher #eltchat |
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| nickkiley |
2:12 PM |
RT @englishraven: Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat True. Maybe read/listen a lot |
| rliberni |
2:12 PM |
@theteacherjames agree absolutely the need of this group for expertise is huge #eltchat |
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| Marisa_C |
2:12 PM |
RT @englishraven: It's interesting to see how CB sales taper off sharply from Intermediate levels... #ELTChat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:13 PM |
RT @T4lK2PaM: Hi! in my opinion adult learners' lack of time & several responsabilities (work,children) interpose their motivation and knowledge #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:13 PM |
#eltchat.....I gues they don't understand that their learning needs to *expand*, rather than progress in a *linear* fashion... |
| Shaunwilden |
2:13 PM |
@sandymillin @worldteacher Isnt post prof the chance to simply use authentic materials? #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:13 PM |
Once advised a friend offered a CB writing deal: "Try to get the lower two levels!" #ELTChat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:13 PM |
RT @englishraven: Let's not assume that these learners just 'stop'. Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:13 PM |
#eltchat Another reason could be that many people require only first-level knowledge. Eg driving lessons |
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| rliberni |
2:13 PM |
@esolcourses also often they really don't need/want an exam their desire is much more emotional #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:13 PM |
@englishraven Yes, I find many Ss stop formal study after intermediate and learn on the job or socially (obviously in ESL context) #ELTchat |
| esolcourses |
2:13 PM |
RT @englishraven interesting to see how CB sales taper off sharply from Intermed. #ELTChat ] lack of demand, or lack of provision, I wonder? |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:13 PM |
RT @englishraven: It's interesting to see how CB sales taper off sharply from Intermediate levels... #ELTChat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:13 PM |
RT @T4lK2PaM: Hi! in my opinion adult learners' lack of time & several responsabilities (work,children) interpose their motivation and knowledge #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:14 PM |
#eltchat real proficiency in a language requires a breadth of knowledge (language and culture) that many adults don't have time to invest in |
| nickkiley |
2:14 PM |
#eltchat Building on @englishraven 's point, do Ss see the teacher as increasingly redundant beyond int? |
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| englishraven |
2:14 PM |
@Shaunwilden I personally find it heartening that (many) Int and Upp Int learners stop feeling the need for CBs... #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:14 PM |
So is the topic changing from what stops sts to why do they need to go beyond int level? #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:14 PM |
RT @hartle: Another reason is that people learn the basics and then go out, use the language and develop autonomously #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:14 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rliberni Agreed, and that's what we used, but problem is consistency being able to practise e.g new vocab regularly #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:14 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat.....I gues they don't understand that their learning needs to *expand*, rather than progress in a *linear* fashion... |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:14 PM |
#eltchat hi everyone, very curious about today's discussion |
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| cioccas |
2:14 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin @worldteacher Isnt post prof the chance to simply use authentic materials? #eltchat <Definitely! |
| hartle |
2:14 PM |
Another reason is that people learn the basics and then go out, use the language and develop autonomously #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:14 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @sandymillin @worldteacher Isnt post prof the chance to simply use authentic materials? Definitely #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
2:15 PM |
#eltchat hi all, my first time to join eltchat, hope im doing it right! <testing> |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:15 PM |
@worldteacher @sandymillin Why constantly create your own, they are post prof they can do the creating :-) #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:15 PM |
@rliberni agree. Pity the funding bodies don't seem to be able to get their heads round that. It's a very top-down system #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:15 PM |
hear2 RT @pjgallantry I gues they don't understand that their learning needs to *expand*,rather than progress in a *linear* fashion #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:15 PM |
@nickkiley I've found they look more to good teachers and less to preset course materials (beyond Int.). #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:15 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: #eltchat talking about why many stds stop after intermediate #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:15 PM |
@sandymillin #eltchat > me too - time consuming to constantly be creating your own! |
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| hartle |
2:15 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: So is the topic changing from what stops sts to why do they need to go beyond int level? #eltchat Yes this is interesting |
| theteacherjames |
2:15 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat.....I gues they don't understand that their learning needs to *expand*, rather than progress in a *linear* fashion... |
| kavimenon_in |
2:15 PM |
RT @hartle: Another reason is that people learn the basics and then go out, use the language and develop autonomously #eltchat Well said! |
| rliberni |
2:16 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat real proficiency in a language requires a breadth of knowledge (language and culture) that many adults don't have time to invest in |
| worldteacher |
2:16 PM |
@Shaunwilden Agreed, but wouldn't say it was 'simple'! Still need to be adapted, targeted, etc. #eltchat |
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| T4lK2PaM |
2:16 PM |
Agree RT @hartle: Another reason is that people learn the basics and then go out, use the language and develop autonomously #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:16 PM |
@Shaunwilden two sides of the same coin maybe #eltchat They stop cos they don't need to go on |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:16 PM |
@LizziePinard Hi Lizzie, looks right to me, if you need any help just message a moderator :-) #eltchat |
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| theteacherjames |
2:16 PM |
@nickkiley @englishraven Not in my experience. They look to teacher to provide content & knowledge not available to them elsewhere. #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:16 PM |
@Shaunwilden Enjoy doing it, but can be time-consuming #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:16 PM |
RT @englishraven: Let's not assume that these learners just 'stop'. Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat |
| BobK99 |
2:16 PM |
RT @BobK99: RT @esolcourses: @rliberni agree... often it is the wrong kind of exam for what the learners want/ and or need. ! Me 3 #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:16 PM |
@Shaunwilden Tried that, but she has no time - working mother, with child who is often ill, plus trying to start her own business! #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:16 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: hear2 RT @pjgallantry I gues they don't understand that their learning needs to *expand*,rather than progress in a *linear* fashion #eltchat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:17 PM |
Often, by the time you've crossed intermediate level, you would have found new topic, and don't want to invest further in the first #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:17 PM |
@LizziePinard hi,welcome to #eltchat ^^ |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:17 PM |
had a class of adult students who seem to have stopped at int level - after 8 years or more of English lessons. any thoughts why? #eltchat |
| nickkiley |
2:17 PM |
@englishraven We also get the opinion (from school director mostly) native speakers are needed at higher levels #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:17 PM |
@esolcourses as with most things in edu :-( #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:17 PM |
@sandymillin Yes agreed it can be time consuming I was just reminding ppl that sts can create material as well :-) #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:17 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden So is the topic changing from what stops sts to why do they need to go beyond int level? #eltchat ] possibly... |
| cioccas |
2:17 PM |
@hartle @worldteacher Okay, for those that choose to stop formal courses because they have achieved the competence they want #ELTchat |
| sandymillin |
2:17 PM |
RT @nickkiley: @englishraven We also get the opinion (from school director mostly) that native speakers are needed at higher levels #eltchat |
| TNGThinx |
2:17 PM |
RT @englishraven: Let's not assume that these learners just 'stop'. Perhaps they stop taking classes, and progress well enough without them. #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:18 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal With inter you can cope if you need to use Eng daily you'll get more if not then where's the problem? #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:18 PM |
@worldteacher I disagree taught post prof 4 yrs rarely adapted anything, just got agenda from sts at beginning & went with that #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:18 PM |
#eltchat I tried creating a course based on British history for lang. school in Paraguay - aimed to interest SS in history, language 2ndary |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:18 PM |
@rliberni @Shaunwilden or simply they feel they have enough to go and face the world? #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:18 PM |
@sandymillin That should be amended to 'proficient speakers are needed at higher levels' IMHO #ELTChat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:19 PM |
@englishraven I think they focused on grammar and not communication - #eltchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:19 PM |
#eltchat do adult students see English as a subject to be learned, or the medium through which things are learned? |
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| hartle |
2:19 PM |
RT @hartle: RT @hartle: I have adults who want to "maintain" their English, they don't really progress but they're happy #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:19 PM |
One things sdts forget though - if you don't use it you'll surely lose it! #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:19 PM |
@Shaunwilden Good point & I do this, but with limited success - after all they are still learners & not trained teachers #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:19 PM |
RT @IateflPoland: Adult learners often know just how much English they need/how far to go in learning the language for their needs.This is a reality. #eltchat |
| babelannet |
2:19 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat real proficiency in a language requires a breadth of knowledge (language and culture) that many adults don't have time to invest in |
| pjgallantry |
2:19 PM |
#eltchat students who actually use English outside classroom far more likely to progress beyond intermediate, as well. Which begs question.. |
| MariaStefanidou |
2:19 PM |
Intermediate is good enough to find a job(at least in my country-Greece)#ELTChat |
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| yearinthelifeof |
2:19 PM |
@esolcourses @Shaunwilden Yeah, sorry about throwing that spanner in the works #ELTchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:19 PM |
RT @IateflPoland: Adult learners often know just how much English they need/how far to go in learning the language for their needs.This is a reality. #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:19 PM |
#eltchat BTW History course was Int-level up, for SS not so interested in grammar-based lessons (and pre-CELTA, so would do diff. now!) |
| englishraven |
2:19 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Either sick of it, or realising they can take it from there on their own? #ELTChat |
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| esolcourses |
2:19 PM |
think some students do need to progress beyond Int. level for work, study reasons - maybe not all of them, though? #ELTChat |
| IateflPoland |
2:19 PM |
Adult learners often know just how much English they need/how far to go in learning the language for their needs.This is a reality. #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:20 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal as we're discussing here;lack of time,feel they have enough and simply lose interest ^^ #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:20 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @englishraven I think they focused on grammar and not communication - #eltchat This is … (cont) http://deck.ly/~MAqbJ |
| sandymillin |
2:20 PM |
#eltchat So how can we help SS to 'feel' their improvement after Int. level to help motivate them? |
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| rliberni |
2:20 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono yes, I think so and this level is mostly accepted as being good enough by the gen public (employers included) #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:20 PM |
@Shaunwilden @yearinthelifeof no need to apologise, Adam... seemed to me to be a very relevant and on topic spanner :-) #ELTChat |
| sedayyildirim |
2:20 PM |
#eltchat talking about why many stds stop after intermediate . |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:20 PM |
RT @rliberni: One things sdts forget though - if you don't use it you'll surely lose it! #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:20 PM |
@LizziePinard #eltchat hi all, my first time to join eltchat, hope im doing it right! <testing> Yes, you're doing it right! Welcome!! |
| theteacherjames |
2:20 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Lack of motivation? It became difficult to 'feel' improvement? language learning fatigue? #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:20 PM |
RT @rliberni: One things sdts forget though - if you don't use it you'll surely lose it! #eltchat |
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| nickkiley |
2:20 PM |
RT @englishraven: Should be amended to 'proficient speakers needed higher levels' #ELTChat Absolutely, but the director needs convincing |
| nickkiley |
2:21 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat So how can we help SS to 'feel' their improvement after Int. level > More portfolio work so they see improvement? |
| kavimenon_in |
2:21 PM |
Not all students are academically-oriented, and hence most don't progress beyond intermediate #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:21 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: ... difficult to 'feel' improvement? language learning fatigue? #eltchat < I think that's something we can help Ss with |
| englishraven |
2:21 PM |
Some mentioned it earlier, and I think it is a really good point: how many Ss actually *need* to go much beyond Int.? #ELTChat |
| worldteacher |
2:21 PM |
@theteacherjames Not in my experience. They look to teacher to provide content & knowledge not available to them elsewhere. #eltchat Agreed |
| Shaunwilden |
2:21 PM |
@esolcourses @yearinthelifeof Def not a spanner #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:21 PM |
My maintenance courses become discussion groups with skills and some language work, but it is also a social thing for them #eltchat |
| nickkiley |
2:21 PM |
RT @MariaStefanidou: Intermediate is good enough to find a job(at least in my country-Greece)#ELTChat In some enough to teach Eng |
| englishraven |
2:22 PM |
@cioccas Yes, I think it's important for certain kinds of scaffolding to be removed (and replaced/refreshed?) by Int. level... #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:22 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: Not all students are academically-oriented, and hence most don't progress beyond intermediate #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
2:22 PM |
@cioccas Absolutely, in fact I think to motivate is one of our main jobs. #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:22 PM |
@Shaunwilden @yearinthelifeof when you think about it, many native speakers don't see the need to progress past int. level, either #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:22 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: Not all students are academically-oriented, and hence most don't progress beyond intermediate #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:22 PM |
RT @rliberni One things sdts forget though - if you don't use it you'll surely lose it! #eltchat >> especially in non english environment ^^ |
| rliberni |
2:22 PM |
@sandymillin they need to achieve something that will spur them on - post inter is hard so small successes may be the answer #eltchat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:23 PM |
#eltchat Motivation is the key. The intermediate course should motivate stds to do an advanced course #eltchat |
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| yearinthelifeof |
2:23 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @Shaunwilden @yearinthelifeof when you think about it, many native speakers don't see the need to progress past int. level, either #ELTChat |
| NikkiFortova |
2:23 PM |
Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate level? #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:23 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: I think that intrinsic motivation is a key factor for post-int sts - they've got to want to use it! #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:23 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat for ss to feel improvement: feel they should be using language in as realistic scaenarios & setting yes I agree |
| esolcourses |
2:23 PM |
RT @englishraven: In my experience, the prime reason Ss have had to go beyond Int. is to pass a major exam (TOEFL/IELTS/CAE). #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:23 PM |
@englishraven here, maybe just for those who plan to take the next level as their profession #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:23 PM |
In my experience, the prime reason Ss have had to go beyond Int. is to pass a major exam (TOEFL/IELTS/CAE). #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:23 PM |
#eltchat for ss to feel improvement: feel they should be using language in as realistic scaenarios & setting as poss: damn! back to DOGME! |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:23 PM |
I think that intrinsic motivation is a key factor for post-int sts - they've got to want to use it! #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:24 PM |
RT @naomishema: #eltchat we seem to be returning again & again to the basic issue -ss come for a certain purpose. if intermediate suffices, then that's that |
| esolcourses |
2:24 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate? #eltchat ] perhaps... |
| pjgallantry |
2:24 PM |
#eltchat @OUPELTGlobal - yes, but what are the motivators and how can we help the students?? |
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| naomishema |
2:24 PM |
#eltchat we seem to be returning again & again to the basic issue -ss come for a certain purpose. if intermediate suffices, then that's that |
| nickkiley |
2:24 PM |
@NikkiFortova #eltchat This is something my director asks me a lot... |
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| lingliziya |
2:24 PM |
@englishraven #eltchat scuse me for gegging in but yes, i feel as a learner of french, spanish, portuguese that int is enough |
| theteacherjames |
2:24 PM |
@sandymillin I wrote a couple of blog posts about it (not sure on the rule about sharing self publicising links during #eltchat!) |
| worldteacher |
2:24 PM |
RT @rliberni: One things sdts forget though - if you don't use it you'll surely lose it! #eltchat Definitely!! I used to be C1 in French!! |
| rliberni |
2:24 PM |
RT @Thamesville: In Japan we get the samurai students who truly want to master the language. The drive needs to be there. #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:24 PM |
RT @esolcourses: RT @englishraven: reason Ss have had to go beyond Int. is to pass a major exam (TOEFL/IELTS/CAE). #ELTChat + uni stds |
| cioccas |
2:24 PM |
I feel Ss at this level need a lot of personal attention too, as they will all have different skill 'plateaus' #ELTchat |
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| Thamesville |
2:24 PM |
In Japan we get the samurai students who truly want to master the language. The drive needs to be there. #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:24 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate level? #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:24 PM |
RT @englishraven: In my experience, the prime reason Ss have had to go beyond Int. is to pass a major exam (TOEFL/IELTS/CAE). #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:24 PM |
Just got told off for long tweeting, sorry all :-( #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:24 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate level? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:25 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @NikkiFortova IME though, I think it is more likely to be external factors... busy lives, less motivation to improve, etc #ELTChat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:25 PM |
@hartle I think Ts need to go beyond the book and involve the sts more personally #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:25 PM |
So @naomishema could the answer to our topic question be: 'because most don't need or want to go beyond Int. level'? #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:25 PM |
#eltchat for soome adults, true - they have 'just enough' English. Should teachers accept this, though? |
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| T4lK2PaM |
2:25 PM |
Society is faster than ever, everybody takes the easiest way to Learn and develop without putting any effort or going further #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:25 PM |
@NikkiFortova IME though, I think it is more likely to be external factors... busy lives, less motivation to improve, etc #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:25 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: @esolcourses Teachers have a major role in motivation #eltchat True |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:25 PM |
@esolcourses Teachers have a major role in motivation #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:25 PM |
RT @esolcourses: RT @NikkiFortova: Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate? #eltchat ] perhaps... |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:25 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova Is it possible that teachers are responsible for their students not progressing past intermediate level? #eltchat > perhaps |
| englishraven |
2:25 PM |
RT @naomishema: #eltchat we seem to be returning again & again to the basic issue -ss come for a certain purpose. if intermediate suffices, then that's that |
| hartle |
2:25 PM |
My uni ss are language ss so they are more motivated #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:26 PM |
RT @cybraryman1: WedChats Part I: #ClavEd #ELTchat (2) #ntchat #ptchat #ecosys #PHDchat #edmusichat #SGAchat: http://bit.ly/9bCqR |
| theteacherjames |
2:26 PM |
#ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:26 PM |
@kavimenon_in so maybe then it is the teacher's job to get them to motivate on it all the time ^^ #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:26 PM |
@esolcourses I agree I think it's mostly busy lives, other things to do fitting it all in - unless a real sudden need arrives #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:26 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat for soome adults they have 'just enough' English. Should teachers accept this, though? >should SS accept this? |
| hartle |
2:26 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I think Ts need to go beyond the book and involve the sts more personally #eltchat agreed |
| Shaunwilden |
2:26 PM |
@NikkiFortova But then teachers tend to want teacher higher levels #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:26 PM |
#eltchat Does anyone get SS to do sth at beginning and end of year, then show them difference? e.g. do a presentation, write a story... |
| cybraryman1 |
2:26 PM |
WedChats Part I: #ClavEd #ELTchat (2) #ntchat #ptchat #ecosys #PHDchat #edmusichat #SGAchat: http://bit.ly/9bCqR |
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| esolcourses |
2:26 PM |
RT @rliberni: RT @kavimenon_in: @esolcourses Teachers have a major role in motivation #eltchat True |
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| pjgallantry |
2:27 PM |
#eltchat I did some research into exam success levels in my college couple of years ago..showed int ss tended to fail more often at exams.. |
| cioccas |
2:27 PM |
@naomishema @kavimenon_in @esolcourses But then a 'bad' teacher can be very demotivating fro adults #ELTchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:27 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
| nickkiley |
2:27 PM |
RT @t4lk2pam: Society is faster than ever #eltchat > True, and we have to cater for students' wishes to learn faster. Can be difficult |
| hartle |
2:27 PM |
Developing something like extensive reading or a love of music or film can motivate learners to go further #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:27 PM |
RT @NikkiFortova: @naomishema I think a lot about it too. In the Czech % of school learners who never get past int is very high. #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:27 PM |
@kavimenon_in @rliberni I don't think teachers role in motivation should be under-estimated.. but life can (& does) get in the way #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:27 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: so maybe then it is the teacher's job to get them to motivate on it all the time ^^ #eltchat absolutely :-) |
| englishraven |
2:27 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
| englishraven |
2:28 PM |
RT @hartle: Developing something like extensive reading or a love of music or film can motivate learners to go further #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:28 PM |
RT @rliberni: @pjgallantry it's sad & we should p'haps encourage but you can only take a horse to water .... #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:28 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
| esolcourses |
2:28 PM |
RT @cioccas: @naomishema @kavimenon_in @esolcourses But then a 'bad' teacher can be very demotivating fro adults #ELTchat ] this is true |
| Shaunwilden |
2:28 PM |
@pjgallantry Was the reason for failure the level? #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:28 PM |
Gotta admit, if you've only just clawed your way to Int. after 8+ years, would be a bit depressing contemplating Adv.! #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:28 PM |
@t4lk2pam so they feel the int level is enough to cope with real world then? #eltchat |
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| T4lK2PaM |
2:28 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
| rliberni |
2:28 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @hartle I think Ts need to go beyond the book and involve the sts more personally #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:28 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas on how to help students in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M |
| rliberni |
2:28 PM |
@pjgallantry it's sad & we should p'haps encourage but you can only take a horse to water .... #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:29 PM |
RT @englishraven: So could the answer to our topic question be: 'because most don't need or want to go beyond Int. level'? #ELTChat <Yes!!! |
| englishraven |
2:29 PM |
RT @worldteacher: RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat ...'just enough' English. Should teachers accept this, though? <Of course, isn't our job to meet our sts needs? |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:29 PM |
@englishraven I think extensive reading is certainly the way to go - english beyond the classroom #eltchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:29 PM |
#eltchat it's also noticeable that the exam expections for PET and FCE are so markedly different - communicative competence to comm. fluency |
| Shaunwilden |
2:29 PM |
RT @rliberni: yes I've given up on languages even tho my teacher was fantastic & I wanted to go on - weak flesh maybe !! #eltchat Me too |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:29 PM |
RT @hartle: Developing something like extensive reading or a love of music or film can motivate learners to go further #eltchat |
| naomishema |
2:29 PM |
#eltchat can't quite keep up with RT - bad teachers are always demotivating that's a no brainer! |
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| worldteacher |
2:29 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat ...'just enough' English. Should teachers accept this, though? <Of course, isn't our job to meet our sts needs? |
| theteacherjames |
2:29 PM |
@sandymillin I love this idea of building a portfolio. They can go back & correct their own work. #eltchat |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:29 PM |
@naomishema For adults we would mean the instructional design itself. Poorly designed course leads to low motivation #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:29 PM |
@esolcourses yes I've given up on languages even tho my teacher was fantastic & I wanted to go on - weak flesh maybe !! #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:29 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat Does anyone get SS to do sth at beginning and end of year, then show them difference? Yes, that's very motivating |
| kavimenon_in |
2:30 PM |
Poor maths teachers made me leave math after high school! Bad teachers result in low motivation #eltchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:30 PM |
@Shaunwilden complex, but partly to do with length of study, interestingly, also lack of applied learning strategies it seemed. #eltchat |
| naomishema |
2:30 PM |
RT @t4lk2pam: I record their first cLass and then make them hear their improvements is works! RT @sandymillin: #eltchat Great idead! |
| rliberni |
2:30 PM |
RT @T4lK2PaM: I record their first cLass and then make them hear their improvements is works! RT @sandymillin: #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:30 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Yes, the sense of movement changes at this point... from 'forward' to 'widening'? #ELTChat |
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| hartle |
2:30 PM |
RT @t4lk2pam: RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat Some practical ideas in this situation: http://bit.ly/httFwg http://bit.ly/mRMV2M nice |
| T4lK2PaM |
2:30 PM |
I record their first cLass and then make them hear their improvements is works! RT @sandymillin: #eltchat |
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| cybraryman1 |
2:30 PM |
My Motivating Students page: http://bit.ly/dhgPoC #eltchat #edchat #elemchat #ntchat |
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| englishraven |
2:31 PM |
I also think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:31 PM |
RT @worldteacher: @sandymillin Yes, I've done recordings - sts often surprised at their progress - they can't see it day-to-day. #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:31 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rliberni So,who's to say that int level isn't what our students need after all then? ^^ *just a thought* #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
2:31 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal @englishraven Practical ideas! Let's discuss the power of reading! #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:31 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @sandymillin I love this idea of building a portfolio. They can go back & correct their own work. #eltchat < Great idea |
| fionamau |
2:31 PM |
#eltchat sorry not to join in, son off school & needing TLC - will try to lurk in a bit or read summary later. Enjoy! |
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| worldteacher |
2:31 PM |
@sandymillin Yes, I've done recordings - sts often surprised at their progress - they can't see it day-to-day. #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:31 PM |
@englishraven this widening can also become overwhelming for some students #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:31 PM |
@cioccas @naomishema @kavimenon_in IME, bad adult teachers don't last long. They tend to quit & look for easier pastures. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:31 PM |
@Shaunwilden @rliberni Love languages & keep learning, bt keeping above Int. level most imp. to me. Don't feel need to be C2 in all #eltchat |
| Mustafa_najjar |
2:32 PM |
@englishraven I think bcz it's difficult for Ss to improve beyond Int. Level without living in an L2 speaking country #eltCHAT |
| Shaunwilden |
2:32 PM |
@pjgallantry Lack of applied learning strategies is a common issue esp when sts 'learn the rules by rote' #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:32 PM |
@sandymillin true and I wish - still in my mind like improving piano skills! #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:32 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think it's hard to get good Ts 4 upper levels. #ELTChat > can be hard 4 Ts to 'know' all they need/be confident |
| kavimenon_in |
2:32 PM |
RT @esolcourses: RT @englishraven: I also think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:32 PM |
RT @T4lK2PaM: I record their first cLass and then make them hear their improvements is works! RT @sandymillin: #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
2:32 PM |
RT @hartle: Developing something like extensive reading or a love of music or film can motivate learners to go further #eltchat <Good point! |
| esolcourses |
2:32 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat |
| hartle |
2:32 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @sandymillin I love this idea of building a portfolio. #eltchat yes nice idea but my ss do it IF recognised by uni. |
| englishraven |
2:32 PM |
RT @rliberni: this widening can also become overwhelming for some students #eltchat > Good point. |
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| pjgallantry |
2:32 PM |
#eltchat students at int. level can *handle* a language: students at upper int level can *manipulate* a language: opinions? |
| esolcourses |
2:32 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: @Shaunwilden @rliberni So,who's to say that int level isn't what our students need after all then? ^^ *just a thought* #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:32 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:33 PM |
@esolcourses And, with ELT Taylorism and wage structures, the good/experienced professionals have disincentives to hang about. #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
2:33 PM |
@hartle By portfolio, I just mean a place to collect their work & enable reflection. Doesn't have to be formal. #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:33 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:33 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @pjgallantry Lack of applied learning strategies is a common issue esp when sts 'learn the rules by rote' #eltchat |
| nickkiley |
2:33 PM |
RT @englishraven: It's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. #ELTChat And many fear the 'trial by grammar / lexis' at those levels... |
| rliberni |
2:33 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @pjgallantry Lack of applied learning strategies is a common issue esp when sts 'learn the rules by rote' #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:34 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @kavimenon_in @englishraven @rliberni same applies I think to beginner levels. I'd say teaching mid-levels is a much easier gig #ELTChat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:34 PM |
We need good teachers at the kindergarten and primary levels as well, as the learners are at an impressionable age #eltchat |
| T4lK2PaM |
2:34 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono yes, I guess if they achieve communication and get people to understand what they r trying to say is enough 4 them #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:34 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: @pjgallantry Lack of applied learning strategies is a common issue esp when sts 'learn the rules by rote' #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:34 PM |
RT @englishraven: I think it's hard to get good teachers for upper levels. #ELTChat yet many think they r gd at it sts can 'just talk" |
| rliberni |
2:34 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @hartle By portfolio, I just mean a place to collect their work & enable reflection. Doesn't have to be formal. #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:34 PM |
RT @englishraven: @esolcourses And, with ELT Taylorism and wage structures, the good/experienced professionals have disincentives to hang about. #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:34 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: upper levels require confident teachers and that's not always easy #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:34 PM |
@kavimenon_in @englishraven @rliberni same applies I think to beginner levels. I'd say teaching mid-levels is a much easier gig #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:34 PM |
RT @englishraven I also think it's hard to get good teachers 4 upper levels.Many don't do well under that spotlight. #ELTChat >>& motivating |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:34 PM |
upper levels require confident teachers and that's not always easy #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:35 PM |
RT @hartle: I don't think you need to live in a native speaker country but you do need to LOVE the language, be interested in language #eltchat |
| naomishema |
2:35 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat ss need confident teachers full stop. Level shoudn't come into it. |
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| LizziePinard |
2:35 PM |
#ELTchat maybe if it's all about widening, they feel less tangible "progress" and get disheartened/think they've done all they can |
| nickkiley |
2:35 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: #ELTChat yet many think they r gd at it sts can 'just talk". So, back to the trainers and DoSes? |
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| englishraven |
2:35 PM |
@Shaunwilden How many Ts have you seen go into those levels, claim it's great, then wilt when the Ss start to ask tough questions? #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:35 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat ss need confident teachers full stop. Level shoudn't come into it. |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:35 PM |
@rliberni agree totally #eltchat |
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| theteacherjames |
2:35 PM |
@esolcourses @englishraven It's funny, preCELTA I preferred higher levels. Maybe because they needed less guidance, more chat. #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:35 PM |
#eltchat ss need confident teachers full stop. Level shoudn't come into it. |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:35 PM |
RT @kavimenon_in: We need good teachers at the kindergarten and primary levels as well, as the learners are at an impressionable age #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:35 PM |
I don't think you need to live in a native speaker country but you do need to LOVE the language, be interested in language #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:35 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: which, of course, is an issue CBs are bad at addressing! -well and the teacher bad at taking it out of the cbk:-) #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:35 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @kavimenon_in @englishraven @rliberni same applies I think to beginner levels. I'd say teaching mid-levels is a much easier gig #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:36 PM |
Yes @LizziePinard from Int. rather than being like a river, it becomes more like an expanding lake? #ELTChat |
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| hartle |
2:36 PM |
@LizziePinard I think it's about awakening interest in language, reading, communication etc. #eltchat |
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| naomishema |
2:36 PM |
RT @LizziePinard: #eltchat or maybe they get bored of working through endless coursebooks, if at EF |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:36 PM |
RT @LizziePinard: #ELTchat maybe if it's all about widening, they feel less tangible "progress" and get disheartened/think they've done all they can |
| rliberni |
2:36 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @englishraven agree. Suspect most of them eventually end up becoming coursebook writers ;-) #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:36 PM |
RT @hartle: I don't think you need to live in a native speaker country but you do need to LOVE the language, be interested in language #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
2:36 PM |
#eltchat or maybe they get bored of working through endless coursebooks, if at EF |
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| rliberni |
2:36 PM |
RT @englishraven: @Shaunwilden How many Ts have you seen go into those levels, claim it's great, then wilt when the Ss start to ask tough questions? #ELTChat |
| esolcourses |
2:36 PM |
@englishraven agree. Suspect most of them eventually end up becoming coursebook writers ;-) #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:37 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat Seeing some great metaphors for language learning. Do you ever discuss them with your SS? How do they see it? |
| esolcourses |
2:37 PM |
RT @rliberni: @esolcourses Lol! (I think coursebook writers should teach - how will they know otherwise?) #eltchat absolutely! |
| LizziePinard |
2:37 PM |
#eltchat yes and with no current moving them along/progressing, they get sluggish to keep swimming! |
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| englishraven |
2:37 PM |
RT @esolcourses: agree. Suspect most of them eventually end up becoming coursebook writers ;-) #ELTChat There's an idea... :-))) |
| sandymillin |
2:37 PM |
#eltchat Seeing some great metaphors for language learning. Do you ever discuss them with your SS? How do they see it? |
| pjgallantry |
2:37 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden : which is an issue CBs are bad at addressing! -well and the teacher bad at taking it out of the cbk:-) #eltchat >true :p |
| rliberni |
2:37 PM |
@esolcourses Lol! (I think coursebook writers should teach - how will they know otherwise?) #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:37 PM |
RT @englishraven: @Shaunwilden How many Ts have you seen go into those levels, claim it's great, then wilt when the Ss start to ask tough questions? #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:37 PM |
@englishraven Oh loads -many handle them badly - they dont have ''think on feet skills ' needed to deal with the questions asked #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:37 PM |
sts focus on the language and ot using it. I think they get to a point when that's not enough and usually give up #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
2:38 PM |
@englishraven my last comment was meant to be replying to you, havent quite got the hang of this yet! #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
2:38 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat So do you have any ideas of how we can help students in this situation? ] assuming they want to be helped :-D |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:38 PM |
@sandymillin my students used to think that unless you plan to study abroad or becoming teacher, int level is good enough #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:38 PM |
@sandymillin Can't say I have ever had a teaching metaphor discussion with them #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:38 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat Do you think there is some kind of linguistic 'glass ceiling' which some students simply can't get through? |
| BobK99 |
2:38 PM |
@esolcourses @Shaunwilden @yearinthelifeof That sort of question could be a different sort of 'spanner' ;-) (Think bridges...) [RT #eltchat] |
| theteacherjames |
2:38 PM |
#ELTChat So do you have any ideas of how we can help students in this situation? |
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| hartle |
2:38 PM |
At adbanced levels you need your own identity in the L2, your own voice and a real need to communicate not just survive #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:38 PM |
#eltchat Do you think there is some kind of linguistic 'glass ceiling' which some students simply can't get through? |
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| englishraven |
2:38 PM |
@Shaunwilden Agree. Many also lack the skills to say "actually, I don't know... Let's try to work it out together." :-) #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:39 PM |
RT @yitzha_sarwono: @sandymillin my students used to think that unless you plan to study abroad or becoming teacher, int level is good enough #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:39 PM |
@pjgallantry actually I think there's something in this- I think some ppl have a propensity for language that others don't - #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:39 PM |
@theteacherjames think a lot depends on why they are stuck and what is stopping them from progressing. #ELTChat |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:39 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono An attitude portryed by most students. Most take up jobs after the intermediate level #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:39 PM |
RT @rliberni: @esolcourses Lol! (I think coursebook writers should teach - how will they know otherwise?) #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:39 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat So do you have any ideas of how we can help students in this situation? |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:39 PM |
@pjgallantry I don´t think so if he intrinsic motivation is there, they´ll be able to do it #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:39 PM |
RT @rliberni: @esolcourses Lol! (I think coursebook writers should teach - how will they know otherwise?) #eltchat Perish the thought! |
| sandymillin |
2:39 PM |
RT @hartle: At adbanced levels you need your own identity in the L2, your own voice and a real need to communicate not just survive #eltchat |
| cioccas |
2:39 PM |
@LizziePinard As a swimming teacher, I love this! :-) #ELTchat |
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| hartle |
2:39 PM |
I can't even spell "advanced" ;-( #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:40 PM |
@theteacherjames Biggest one is self-directed and reflective learning, I think, with classroom much more of a meeting place. #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:40 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: #ELTChat So do you have any ideas of how we can help students in this situation? |
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| rliberni |
2:40 PM |
@pjgallantry I don't think that means ppl can't learn but it makes a difference I think #eltchat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:40 PM |
@sandymillin not wanting to go back to Dogme, I think it's a real consideration - focussing on the sts and the learning #eltchat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:40 PM |
@rliberni I kind of agree with this. Not everyone can be language experts #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:40 PM |
RT @rliberni: @pjgallantry actually I think there's something in this- I think some ppl have a propensity for language that others don't - #eltchat |
| LizziePinard |
2:40 PM |
#eltchat sorry am only seeing a few messages and missing most, not sure if i am doing this right! |
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| cioccas |
2:40 PM |
Extensive coverage here: 'Moving Beyond the Plateau' Jack C. Richards PDF: http://bit.ly/jq2K9C Video: http://bit.ly/kITD07 #ELTchat |
| hartle |
2:40 PM |
@theteacherjames motivate them to develop their interests through English #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:41 PM |
@theteacherjames encouragement, support, praise etc.. or wait until a new need arises and they DO come back #eltchat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:41 PM |
we've agreed that 4 reasons there is a plateau etc the 2nd part was "how can we help them or motivate them to continue?" #ELTChat |
| worldteacher |
2:41 PM |
@hartle Definitely! I developed my proficiency in French through studying art history #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
2:41 PM |
RT @englishraven: ... Biggest one is self-directed and reflective learning, I think, with classroom much more of a meeting place. #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
2:41 PM |
@rliberni @pjgallantry That's definitely true, as my struggles witht the Portuguese language will attest! #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:41 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat I think the best help for int students is to get them thinking about what they want to do with English - do they really have a goal |
| kavimenon_in |
2:41 PM |
RT @esolcourses: @theteacherjames if they want to progress past Intermediate and get stuck, then yes, I see it as part of our job to help them #ELTChat |
| esolcourses |
2:41 PM |
@theteacherjames if they want to progress past Intermediate and get stuck, then yes, I see it as part of our job to help them #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:41 PM |
#eltchat I think the best help for int students is to get them thinking about what they want to do with English - do they really have a goal |
| esolcourses |
2:42 PM |
@theteacherjames sometimes though, it can be because they need to do extra work outside class but they lack the time or inclination #ELTChat |
| worldteacher |
2:42 PM |
@LizziePinard Need to use Tweetdeck & set up an #eltchat search |
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| rliberni |
2:42 PM |
@englishraven yes, you do have a point here - maybe this would kill off CBs once and for all! #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:42 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Shaunwilden make their learning personal #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:42 PM |
@theteacherjames I also think it really helps many learners at these levels to consider ditching coursebooks for classroom time. #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:42 PM |
#eltchat however, sometimes it's an issue about *what kind* of language we need/use eg I'm fluent Turkish speaker, but useless writer! |
| cioccas |
2:42 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: ... not wanting to go back to Dogme, I think it's a real consideration - focussing on the sts and the learning #eltchat |
| sandymillin |
2:42 PM |
@LizziePinard Use the search function to follow #eltchat hashtag. Or download a client like Tweetdeck - makes it a lot easier! |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:42 PM |
@Shaunwilden make their learning personal #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:42 PM |
@cioccas Thanks for the links - will watch/read later #eltchat |
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| theteacherjames |
2:42 PM |
RT @englishraven: @theteacherjames Biggest 1 is self-directed & reflective learning, with classroom much more of a meeting place. #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:42 PM |
@esolcourses @theteacherjames maybe we should remind them why the learnt English the 1st time and find that happy thoughts ^^ #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:43 PM |
@rliberni I am serious though... Any publishers out there would tell you, the fall off in sales/adoptions for Int.> is massive. #ELTChat |
| nickkiley |
2:43 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think it really helps many learners to consider ditching coursebooks for classroom time. #ELTChat >Teachers too... |
| hartle |
2:43 PM |
@rliberni or CBs need to adapt radically the way Global is trying to #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:43 PM |
@LizziePinard you could just type #eltchat on search and it will stream over ^^ |
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| rliberni |
2:43 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @esolcourses Definitely, it's one of our main jobs. They have come to us, remember, not the other way around. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:43 PM |
#eltchat What helps me is an interest in the cultural side of things. Language is secondary - the way I find out more about the culture |
| theteacherjames |
2:43 PM |
@esolcourses Definitely, it's one of our main jobs. They have come to us, remember, not the other way around. #ELTChat |
| suercons |
2:43 PM |
@pjgallantry I think sts must see a purpose for every lesson, but how to make lessons meaningful(socially & personally)? #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:44 PM |
@theteacherjames @kavimenon_in @pjgallantry wrote a post about language propensity http://bit.ly/it4H5N #eltchat |
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| theteacherjames |
2:44 PM |
@englishraven Yes, I think they value face to face interaction even more, especially in EFL. #ELTChat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:44 PM |
@sandymillin I like that - language as a means to an end and not the end in itself #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:45 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat If they don't need post-Int level language, why force them? |
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| LizziePinard |
2:45 PM |
#eltchat ok think ive got it now, no idea how to set up a tweedeck tho, or even what one is. am new to this twitter malarkey! |
| Shaunwilden |
2:45 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat If they don't need post-Int level language, why force them? |
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| pjgallantry |
2:45 PM |
#eltchat forgot to mention - from my research, discovered that 82% ss went from beginner to intermediate: after that, only 6% progressed :O |
| esolcourses |
2:45 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono @theteacherjames great if you can - tho where they need it to get by are not always motivated, a bit more difficult #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:45 PM |
#eltchat If they don't need post-Int level language, why force them? |
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| theteacherjames |
2:45 PM |
@esolcourses But I suppose we have to deal with that the best we can, and amend our classes accordingly. #ELTChat |
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| worldteacher |
2:45 PM |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat What helps me is an interest in the cultural side of things. Language is secondary ... Agreed! |
| Shaunwilden |
2:45 PM |
RT @legyened: Should also celebrate the fact so many students manage to get to Int level unscathed and with their love for English intact! #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:45 PM |
@theteacherjames @t4lk2pam I also think they should be teaching each other a lot more. Taking/rotating leadership in class. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:45 PM |
RT @rliberni: @theteacherjames wait until a new need arises and they DO come back #eltchat give the learners space to decide... |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:45 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @sandymillin I like that - language as a means to an end and not the end in itself #eltchat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:45 PM |
@englishraven yes, the question is why - can't simply be bad Cs, can it? #eltchat |
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| legyened |
2:45 PM |
Should also celebrate the fact so many students manage to get to Int level unscathed and with their love for English intact! #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:46 PM |
@englishraven after this level books alone are totally inadequate stds move fast and their need is too diverse for a book to cope #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:46 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Another problem is that CB series follow a recipe/template for units that doesn't change enough across levels. #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
2:46 PM |
RT @englishraven: I also think they should be teaching each other a lot more. Taking/rotating leadership in class. #ELTChat |
| sandymillin |
2:46 PM |
#eltchat My attitude to learning languages http://wp.me/p18yiK-8c"On a language high" |
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| kavimenon_in |
2:46 PM |
@pjgallantry That's a really small number! #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:46 PM |
@pjgallantry Sounds like a good piece of research have you put it on a blog or somewhere to read in more detail? #ELTChat |
| theteacherjames |
2:46 PM |
RT @rliberni: @theteacherjames @kavimenon_in @pjgallantry wrote a post about language propensity http://bit.ly/it4H5N #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:46 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal My honest answer is that by that level, CBs have 'done their job' and Ss want more freedom/experimentation. #ELTChat |
| esolcourses |
2:47 PM |
RT @englishraven: @theteacherjames @t4lk2pam I also think they should be teaching each other a lot more. Taking/rotating leadership in class. #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:47 PM |
@englishraven I always use at least 6 books and lots of authentic mats with my stds #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:47 PM |
@rliberni CBs for upper Int. up should be more like magazines, I reckon... More content, less exercises #ELTChat |
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| sandymillin |
2:47 PM |
#eltchat Does anyone work at a school that runs non-English courses for higher level learners? i.e. like my history through English course |
| A_d_Amore |
2:47 PM |
RT @cybraryman1: My Motivating Students page: http://bit.ly/dhgPoC #eltchat #edchat #elemchat #ntchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:47 PM |
@Shaunwilden should be on Scrib'd - get location in a bit #eltchat |
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| lingliziya |
2:47 PM |
@sandymillin #eltchat in Spain, it's becoming important to have FCE for jobs and higher education, so there is a need but not a passion. |
| esolcourses |
2:47 PM |
@theteacherjames agree. Most teachers I've met do go out of their way to help s's. Nature of the job. We can only do our best., tho #ELTChat |
| cioccas |
2:47 PM |
Had lunch with ex-INT-student of mine today - she said her job is her English school now! #ELTchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:48 PM |
RT @lingliziya: @sandymillin #eltchat in Spain, it's becoming important to have FCE for jobs and higher education, so there is a need but not a passion. |
| worldteacher |
2:48 PM |
@sandymillin We run summer courses on art, cookery , history and English literature - all in English, of course! #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:48 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @esolcourses It's not about "You must do your homework!" but about accommodating their lives into the program. #ELTChat |
| cioccas |
2:48 PM |
@LizziePinard Best to download & play with Tweetdeck after this - you'll be ready for next week then :) #ELTchat |
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| LizziePinard |
2:48 PM |
#eltchat ok folks, im off to teach my last class for today... maybe next week i'll be able to do it right! getting closer to sussing it! |
| theteacherjames |
2:48 PM |
@esolcourses It's not about "You must do your homework!" but about accommodating their lives into the program. #ELTChat |
| hartle |
2:48 PM |
My adult "maintenance" courses are passionate abt politics, general issues and the English is the medium for discussion. #eltchat |
| BobK99 |
2:48 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: RT @englishraven... they shd be teaching each other a lot more. Taking/rotating ldrshp in class. #ELTChat! Great idea |
| Shaunwilden |
2:48 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal U mean above int? #ELTChat |
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| naomishema |
2:48 PM |
#eltchat Got to go - great chatting with you all! |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:48 PM |
CBs may focus too much on language and not enough on skills at these levels, what do you think? #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:49 PM |
@LizziePinard play with it a bit and you'll be fine - look forward to seeing you nxt week #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:49 PM |
@worldteacher yes that's good, so it's a type of CLIL #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:49 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: Reading "Dtlls Research Project" on Scribd http://scr.bi/m7U1Pt #Readcast #eltchat Cheers :-) |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:49 PM |
@Shaunwilden yes above Int - just because a student has learned the past simple doesn't mean they can use it. #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:49 PM |
@rliberni Sounds pretty bloody good to me! :-))) #ELTChat |
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| worldteacher |
2:49 PM |
RT @englishraven: @rliberni CBs for upper Int. up should be more like magazines, I reckon... More content, less exercises #ELTChat Like it! |
| lingliziya |
2:49 PM |
@englishraven #eltchat is int only in spain that the Ss just gawp at you expecting a lecture of sorts? even when u try other things? |
| pjgallantry |
2:49 PM |
@Shaunwilden Reading "Dtlls Research Project" on Scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/16341547 #Readcast #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:49 PM |
@englishraven good idea but you'd still have the prob of the one size fits all approach - maybe an adaptable print on demand book? #eltchat |
| swalker2 |
2:50 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @esolcourses It's not about "You must do your homework!" but about accommodating their lives into the program. #ELTChat |
| Shaunwilden |
2:50 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal This is very true, but like any level a teacher should be balancing skills and language shouldn't they :-) #eltchat |
| esolcourses |
2:50 PM |
@theteacherjames absolutely! Think there does have to be a fair amount of intrinsic motivation there as well though to make headway #ELTChat |
| pjgallantry |
2:50 PM |
#eltchat possibly intermediate+ ss should have more of the Lexical Approach? |
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| cioccas |
2:50 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: @Shaunwilden yes above Int - just because a student has learned the past simple doesn't mean they can use it. #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:50 PM |
@LizziePinard do join us next week then ^^ #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:51 PM |
@sandymillin absolutely. More skills and more interest and curiosity #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:51 PM |
@hartle Yes - and great fun for the teacher as well as the sts, in my experience. #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:51 PM |
RT @sandymillin: @OUPELTGlobal Agreed - SS need more skills than language, but also need more culture for interest... (difficult to choose what tho) #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:51 PM |
@pjgallantry I think they should have more of a Task based, experiential approach #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:51 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat forgot to mention - from my research, discovered that 82% ss went from beginner to intermediate: after that, only 6% progressed :O |
| englishraven |
2:51 PM |
@lingliziya Must be. Where I've been, Int. + levels want more freedom and genuine application. #ELTChat |
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| rliberni |
2:51 PM |
@englishraven maybe we've come up with the holy grail of ELT :-) Any publishers listening? we're your man/men, well man & woman! #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
2:51 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat forgot to mention - from my research, discovered that 82% ss went from beginner to intermediate: after that, only 6% progressed :O |
| sandymillin |
2:51 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Agreed - SS need more skills than language, but also need more culture for interest... (difficult to choose what tho) #eltchat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:51 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: @Shaunwilden Reading "Dtlls Research Project" on Scribd http://www.scribd.com/doc/16341547 #Readcast #eltchat |
| rliberni |
2:52 PM |
@englishraven too much at stake and too scared to change! #eltchat |
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| worldteacher |
2:52 PM |
@hartle Of course!! #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:52 PM |
@rliberni That's why I like 121, but also enjoy groups as SS learn a lot from each other #eltchat |
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| lingliziya |
2:52 PM |
@englishraven #eltchat in fairness my CAEs love the group thing. i feel like a bystander. the kids and the pre-ints on the other hand... |
| rliberni |
2:52 PM |
@sandymillin teaching 1:1 & small group solves this as you can go straight to their individ needs and interests #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:52 PM |
@rliberni I've been gabbing on about it for ages now. Publishers read my blog and don't comment... :-))) #ELTChat |
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| hartle |
2:52 PM |
@worldteacher do you get to eat the food too? #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:53 PM |
RT @englishraven: I remember a bunch of high Int./Adv. adult learners in Korea, who stopped classes, but formed their own 'club'. It was amazing... #ELTChat |
| WarwickLanguage |
2:53 PM |
RT @englishraven: @theteacherjames @t4lk2pam I also think they should be teaching each other a lot more. Taking/rotating leadership in class. #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:53 PM |
I remember a bunch of high Int./Adv. adult learners in Korea, who stopped classes, but formed their own 'club'. It was amazing... #ELTChat |
| rliberni |
2:53 PM |
@sandymillin I agree and small groups are gr8 as you get the best of both worlds #eltchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:54 PM |
#eltchat @englishraven @rliberni issue is, how many magazines needed? v.v. easy to overspecialise!! profit margins too small for publishers? |
| esolcourses |
2:54 PM |
RT @englishraven: I remember a bunch of high Int./Adv. adult learners in Korea, who stopped classes, but formed their own 'club' #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
2:54 PM |
They met together once a week, spoke only in English, chatted, shared learning ideas, then went out and got pissed (in English). #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:54 PM |
@rliberni @sandymillin teaching small class/1 on 1 is most likely to succeed,but then again it will cost more too (at least here) #eltchat |
| hartle |
2:54 PM |
I had CAE course this year, but the learners were more interested in reading, discussion and using the lang. than the exam #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
2:54 PM |
@englishraven Group of my sts in Turkey did this - read books, saw films in OV, etc. #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:55 PM |
@englishraven that sounds like my "maintenance" courses but they bake cakes #eltchat |
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| lingliziya |
2:55 PM |
@englishraven #eltchat in the UK it;s much more geared towards implementing social programmes alongside class. we do have debate club here |
| cioccas |
2:55 PM |
@worldteacher @englishraven So, these seem to be ideas we can hook into for more formal classes! #ELTchat |
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| theteacherjames |
2:56 PM |
#ELTChat Surprised we haven't mentioned extensive reading. It seems (from what others have said) to be extremely effective & motivating. |
| Shaunwilden |
2:56 PM |
@lingliziya @englishraven I think this true of schools that deal with study abroad sts, much more out side of class use of the lang #ELTchat |
| hartle |
2:56 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal yes I agree we have class libraries that are very popular #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:56 PM |
RT @worldteacher: @englishraven Getting pissed in English is guaranteed to move sts beyond int level!! #eltchat > TRUE! |
| cioccas |
2:56 PM |
@worldteacher @englishraven ...Meaning, use the things these self-motivated groups of Ss are doing for 'fun' in our classes #ELTchat |
| worldteacher |
2:56 PM |
@englishraven Getting pissed in English is guaranteed to move sts beyond int level!! #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:56 PM |
@englishraven Here we use more activities like watching and discussing movies ,debate even drama event to get them stay interested #eltchat |
| OUPELTGlobal |
2:56 PM |
reading circles are a great way to learn for int+ sts - reading helps them with the language and they get a chance to use it #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:56 PM |
@esolcourses One of the interesting things: they didn't need (or want) native speakers there. It was very much their own thing. #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:57 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: reading circles are a great way to learn for int+ sts - reading helps them with the language and they get a chance to use it #eltchat |
| pjgallantry |
2:57 PM |
#eltchat perhaps that's all we need to help our int students - lashings and lashings of booze! |
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| T4lK2PaM |
2:57 PM |
It was a pleasure to read u and be read by u #eltchat keep up the good work and the excellent discussions and sharing of ideas! |
| englishraven |
2:57 PM |
@theteacherjames I count that as one of the 'self-directed' paths, I guess. #ELTChat |
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| worldteacher |
2:57 PM |
RT @cioccas: @worldteacher @englishraven ..use the things these self-motivated groups of Ss are doing for 'fun' in our classes #ELTchat >Yes |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:57 PM |
@englishraven i meant less tasks and homework but more practical life thing,works well for quite sometimes #eltchat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:57 PM |
RT @worldteacher: @englishraven Getting pissed in English is guaranteed to move sts beyond int level!! #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
2:58 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono yes 1:1 and small group costs a lot more but a lot depends on what the stds want and how quickly they need to learn #eltchat |
| worldteacher |
2:58 PM |
@pjgallantry Sounds like a plan!! #eltchat |
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| hartle |
2:58 PM |
@kavimenon_in C U next week #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
2:58 PM |
@pjgallantry Beer, wine and spirits appear to pour quite well straight through Krashen's affective filter :-) #ELTChat |
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| esolcourses |
2:58 PM |
@englishraven sounds fascinating! Sure there must be a cut off point at higher levels where DIY approach is all that's needed #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
2:58 PM |
@t4lk2pam like wise ^^. #eltchat |
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| pjgallantry |
2:58 PM |
#eltchat - well, that's an hour gone Whoooosh! |
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| theteacherjames |
2:58 PM |
@englishraven But it's a path the Ss often have to be led down, right? ;-) #ELTChat |
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| hartle |
2:58 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal yes extensive reading is really good as is film viewing outside class with activities integrated into class l8ter. #eltchat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:58 PM |
Nice speaking to you all. Hope to see you next week. #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
2:58 PM |
@theteacherjames I agree that extensive reading can be motivating, but depends on SS reading preferences in L1 too #ELTChat |
| namanchado |
2:59 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: reading circles are a great way to learn for int+ sts - reading helps them with the language and they get a chance to use it #eltchat |
| englishraven |
2:59 PM |
@esolcourses Circular argument, in some ways... Brings back to "because they don't want/need" classes beyond Int. lvl? #ELTChat |
| kavimenon_in |
2:59 PM |
@hartle Sure! :) #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
2:59 PM |
@pjgallantry and find that 'Happy thoughts' ! ^^ #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
2:59 PM |
RT @OUPELTGlobal: an hour already?! #eltchat It always flies by :-) |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
2:59 PM |
an hour already?! #eltchat |
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| BobK99 |
2:59 PM |
RT @pjgallantry: #eltchat perhaps that's all we need to help our int students - lashings and lashings of booze!! And b/g music (in Eng) |
| Shaunwilden |
3:00 PM |
The 9pm #eltchat is How do you deal with low literacy adults (even in their L1)? How can we adapt our approach to accommodate their needs? |
| sandymillin |
3:00 PM |
@theteacherjames Problem I sometimes have is SS who don't read anything, especially in Paraguay as L1 reading not normal there #ELTChat |
| englishraven |
3:00 PM |
@theteacherjames Think we need a whole #ELTChat just for extensive reading :-))) |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:00 PM |
@kavimenon_in see you next week ^^ #eltchat |
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| nickkiley |
3:00 PM |
#eltchatThanks all. A pleasurable and thought-provoking hour #eltchat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
3:00 PM |
extensive reading provides language in context with the comfort of the sts' pace and interest - under rated, I think #eltchat |
| theteacherjames |
3:00 PM |
@sandymillin In my (admittedly limited) experience with ext. reading, they can read anything they like, be it fiction, news, gossip #ELTChat |
| yitzha_sarwono |
3:00 PM |
RT @rliberni: @yitzha_sarwono yes 1:1 and small group costs a lot more but a lot depends on what the stds want and how quickly they need to learn #eltchat |
| hartle |
3:00 PM |
Bye everyone. have to go. Thnx for interesting chat :-) #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
3:00 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @OUPELTGlobal: an hour already?! #eltchat It always flies by :-) ] as does everything, when you're having fun :-) |
| LucyBlakemore |
3:01 PM |
@Marisa_C just seen msg of 10/3 - I didn't 'get' how to use #eltchat fully until recently. Hope ignorance didn't annoy - not intended! |
| cioccas |
3:01 PM |
@Shaunwilden I could give it a go, but not until weekend #ELTchat |
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| OUPELTGlobal |
3:01 PM |
Thanks every1. Gotta catch a plane back to UK. See you all next week. A big thanks to the moderators! #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:01 PM |
RT @nickkiley #eltchat Thanks all. A pleasurable and thought-provoking hour >>same here |
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| sandymillin |
3:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: Does anyone fancy writing the summary ? #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
3:01 PM |
RT @rliberni: Thanks to @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono for really advanced level moderation! #eltchat > & you too, Berni! |
| Shaunwilden |
3:01 PM |
RT @rliberni: Thanks to @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono for really advanced level moderation! #eltchat And you!!!!!! :-) |
| theteacherjames |
3:01 PM |
@englishraven Hmm, do I spot a topic for next week? #ELTChat |
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| worldteacher |
3:01 PM |
RT @englishraven: @theteacherjames Think we need a whole #ELTChat just for extensive reading :-))) Good idea! |
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| esolcourses |
3:01 PM |
RT @rliberni: Thanks to @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono for really advanced level moderation! #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
3:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: The 9pm #eltchat is How do you deal with low literacy adults (even in their L1)? How can we adapt our approach to accommodate their needs? |
| cioccas |
3:01 PM |
RT @englishraven: @theteacherjames Think we need a whole #ELTChat just for extensive reading :-))) < I'll second that |
| Shaunwilden |
3:01 PM |
Does anyone fancy writing the summary ? #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
3:01 PM |
@englishraven yes, could be. Would be interested to hear if anyone has done research along those lines #ELTChat |
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| kavimenon_in |
3:01 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono Thanks :) #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
3:01 PM |
RT @Shaunwilden: The 9pm #eltchat is How do you deal with low literacy adults (even in their L1)? How can we adapt our approach to accommodate their needs? |
| rliberni |
3:01 PM |
Thanks to @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono for really advanced level moderation! #eltchat |
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| BobK99 |
3:01 PM |
#ELTChat Lunch calls. Tara. Thanks |
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| pjgallantry |
3:01 PM |
#eltchat thanks a lot everybody - been fun and instructive as ever ....now, where's the pub...? :)) |
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| worldteacher |
3:02 PM |
@Shaunwilden I'll give it a go if you like #eltchat |
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| Shaunwilden |
3:02 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono Well done on the moderating :-) #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:02 PM |
@Shaunwilden if you help me , I'll try doing it ^^ ##eltchat |
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| englishraven |
3:02 PM |
RT @theteacherjames: @englishraven Hmm, do I spot a topic for next week? #ELTChat > Go for it, laddie! |
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| theteacherjames |
3:02 PM |
@sandymillin Just another challenge to add to the teacher's list! #ELTChat |
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| cioccas |
3:03 PM |
Thanks everyone for the #ELTchat tonight, esp our fab moderators |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:03 PM |
@Shaunwilden you think? ^^ .thanks then #eltchat |
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| esolcourses |
3:03 PM |
Cheers 4 another interesting & thought-proviking #ELTChat, folks, with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
| englishraven |
3:03 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal Thanks for being on board! #ELTChat (Pearson? Macmillan? CUP? You've been shown up again!) |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:03 PM |
@rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden Thanks for having me here today ^^ #eltchat |
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| rliberni |
3:03 PM |
@pjgallantry nail on head I think - the reason that CBs above inter are often only exam related #eltchat |
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| cioccas |
3:04 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Thanks 4 another great #ELTChat with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
| worldteacher |
3:04 PM |
Thanks 4 another great #ELTChat with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
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| T4lK2PaM |
3:04 PM |
Looking forward to it :) RT @Shaunwilden: The 9pm #eltchat is How do you deal with low literacy adults, How can we adapt to their needs? |
| rliberni |
3:04 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono thank you for helping out - great job! See you next time Selamat Siang (disini!) #eltchat |
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| theteacherjames |
3:04 PM |
RT @rliberni: Thanks to @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono for really advanced level moderation! #eltchat |
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| yitzha_sarwono |
3:05 PM |
RT @esolcourses: Cheers 4 another interesting & thought-proviking #ELTChat, folks, with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
| yitzha_sarwono |
3:05 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Thanks 4 another great #ELTChat with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
| theteacherjames |
3:05 PM |
RT @englishraven: @OUPELTGlobal Thanks for being on board! #ELTChat (Pearson? Macmillan? CUP? You've been shown up again!) |
| yitzha_sarwono |
3:05 PM |
@OUPELTGlobal thanks for being here! looking forward for more thought provoking's moments with you #eltchat |
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| englishraven |
3:05 PM |
RT @sandymillin: This week's Infinite ELT Ideas prompt=train ticket http://wp.me/p1sbtu-k Be the 1st to suggest an idea! :) #eltchat #elt #efl #esl #esol |
| sandymillin |
3:05 PM |
RT @worldteacher: Thanks 4 another great #ELTChat with thanks to mods @rliberni @englishraven @Shaunwilden @yitzha_sarwono |
| sandymillin |
3:05 PM |
This week's Infinite ELT Ideas prompt=train ticket http://wp.me/p1sbtu-k Be the 1st to suggest an idea! :) #eltchat #elt #efl #esl #esol |
| yitzha_sarwono |
3:06 PM |
@rliberni selamat siang! Terima kasih -hugs- #eltchat |
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| sandymillin |
3:07 PM |
Only 7 'working week' #eltpics so far http://bit.ly/j98l35 Can you help? #eltchat #efl #esl #esol #tefl #tesol |
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| cioccas |
3:08 PM |
RT @mgraffin: Would appreciate a few more comments on Voicethread - how your PLN has influenced your teaching http://bit.ly/lDUEtl #eltchat |
| rliberni |
3:08 PM |
RT @sandymillin: Only 7 'working week' #eltpics so far http://bit.ly/j98l35 Can you help? #eltchat #efl #esl #esol #tefl #tesol |
| rliberni |
3:08 PM |
@yitzha_sarwono sama sama jam berapa disana? #eltchat |
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| fionamau |
3:08 PM |
@Shaunwilden Bon appetit! Tweetdeck went on strike, I've had to reinstall so missed the #eltchat altogther! Hopefully tonight... |
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