Should ESL teachers learn a second or foreign language Can this help us to become better teachers

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Transcript for December 22 - 9 p.m. GMT

9:00 pm	sandymillin:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat for the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to our next topic - please join us for the last #ELTchat of the year
9:00 pm	cecilialcoelho:	#ELTchat for the next half hour my tweets will be dedicated to the last #ELTchat of the year (will have to leave early).
9:00 pm	Marisa_C:	Welcome to our last #ELTchat of 2010 - Is learning a foreign language a good thing for an FL teacher? Does it makes us better teachers?
9:00 pm	vbenevolofranca:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat for the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to our next topic - please join us for the last #ELTchat of the year
9:01 pm	lolonagi:	Yes, I think it really helps sometimes english cannot solve all problems #ELTchat
9:01 pm	Marisa_C:	This evening I will be your only moderator - if any of our more seasoned #ELTchat friends wish to lend a helping hand I will be grateful
9:02 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C Yes - we remember what it's like to not understand, not know, not be able to say what we want #eltchat
9:02 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @sandymillin: @Marisa_C Yes - we remember what it's like to not understand, not know, not be able to say what we want #eltchat
9:02 pm	seburnt:	If nothing else, it grants us some empathy for our students learning situation. #ELTchat
9:02 pm	Marisa_C:	Is this tru of both NEST's and NNEST's ? #ELTchat
9:02 pm	cecilialcoelho:	As a NNEST who Cs benefits in being such when Tching a English, I think every ELT teacher would benefit from learning another lang #ELTchat
9:03 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @Marisa_C: Is this tru of both NEST's and NNEST's ? #ELTchat
9:03 pm	esolcourses:	@Marisa_C how many hands would you like to borrow? ;-) #ELTchat
9:03 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @seburnt: If nothing else, it grants us some empathy for our students learning situation. #ELTchat
9:03 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @cecilialcoelho: As a NNEST who Cs benefits in being such when Tching a English, I think every ELT T would benefit from this #ELTchat
9:03 pm	lolonagi:	RT @esolcourses: @Marisa_C how many hands would you like to borrow? ;-) #ELTchathehehehhehe
9:03 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @esolcourses: @Marisa_C how many hands would you like to borrow? ;-) #ELTchat > Am here if you need ;-)
9:03 pm	Marisa_C:	@esolcourses I want your hands... Was hoping you would offer at least one :-D #ELTchat
9:04 pm	Marisa_C:	@cecilialcoelho Great ! Thanks - lovely! #ELTchat
9:04 pm	vbenevolofranca:	Yes, I tend to think it does help - we get in touch with some of the difficulties involved when learning a new language.#ELTchat
9:04 pm	esolcourses:	@Marisa_C my pleasure - happy to help out :-D #ELTchat
9:04 pm	sandymillin:	#ELTchat think it's true for everyone - many NNESTs learnt Eng a while ago, so it's a memory - good 2 do 1 lesson + every couple of years
9:04 pm	cecilialcoelho:	Learning any lang put u in the STs' shoes and makes you relate better to what / how they feel #ELTchat
9:04 pm	seburnt:	Other languages also give Ts insight into common errors, social ideology and language structure. #ELTchat
9:04 pm	esolcourses:	RT @Marisa_C: RT @cecilialcoelho: As a NNEST who Cs benefits in being such when Tching a English, I think every ELT T would benefit from this #ELTchat
9:05 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat If you are new to this chat ask me @Marisa_C or @esolcourses of @cecilialcoelho for help - thanks ladies!
9:05 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Marisa_C Always glad to help ;-) #ELTchat
9:05 pm	sandymillin:	@seburnt #eltchat insight into common errors <- yes, helps you understand WHY SS making certain errors, not just that it's common
9:06 pm	Blog4Edu:	via @DaveDodgson Merry Christmas from the 2 Newest Internet Music Sensations - English Raven & The Brig... http://bit.ly/hxDS69 #ELTChat
9:06 pm	DaveDodgson:	New blog post: Merry Christmas from the 2 Newest Internet Music Sensations - English Raven & The Bright... http://bit.ly/hxDS69 #ELTchat
9:06 pm	cecilialcoelho:	Do you think the language chosen to learn matters? #ELTchat
9:06 pm	Marisa_C:	As a NNEST I can't remember what it was like to be a beginner - I learnt as a child. #ELTchat so my beginner Turkish course was invaluable
9:06 pm	esolcourses:	If you are new to #ELtchat ask me @esolcourses or @Marisa_C or @cecilialcoelho for help
9:07 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho #eltchat think it's useful to learn ur SS language in monolingual class - helps you see their errors
9:07 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Marisa_C I had the same experience Marisa. Learned Eng V young, going back for Spanish and French took me back #ELTchat
9:07 pm	seburnt:	Oops, forgot hashtag. @cecilialcoelho If your class is homogeneous, it's probably good to start with your Ss language. #ELTchat
9:07 pm	peterjohnfenton:	RT @cecilialcoelho: Learning any lang put u in the STs' shoes and makes you relate better to how they feel #ELTchatagreed empathy is key!
9:08 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @cecilialcoelho: Do you think the language chosen to learn matters? #ELTchat > No I don't - but it's good if distant to ur L1 or L2
9:08 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho #eltchat but if multiling / u know lang already, just being a language learner helps regardless of which lang.
9:08 pm	Marisa_C:	Who would like to learn some Modern Greek? #ELTchat
9:08 pm	Fuertesun:	Hi everyone whats's the topic? #eltchat
9:08 pm	esolcourses:	To be honest, I'm not sure I've met anyone who works in ELT who doesn't speak a second language... would have thought it a given? #eltchat
9:08 pm	cecilialcoelho:	I agree with @seburnt and @sandymillin that if u have a monoligual group it's good to know their lang. #ELTchat
9:09 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C @cecilialcoelho #eltchat distant to L1 / L2 good - gives you new perspective
9:09 pm	esolcourses:	RT @cecilialcoelho: Learning any lang put u in the STs' shoes and makes you relate better to what / how they feel #ELTchat
9:09 pm	fionamau:	RT @peterjohnfenton: Learning any lang put u in the STs' shoes and makes you relate better to how they feel #ELTchat agreed empathy is key!
9:09 pm	Marisa_C:	@esolcourses I know many L1 Ts who don't speak any language other than English and the Grammar of French or German etc maybe #eltchat
9:09 pm	DaveDodgson:	I'm still awake so I may as well join #ELTchat :)
9:09 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Fuertesun topic is "is it a good idea for ESL/EFL Ts to learn a foreign Language?"#eltchat
9:09 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C #eltchat did learn Modern Greek for a year. First new alphabet - appreciated new challenge, but then, I love languages!
9:09 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @sandymillin: @Marisa_C @cecilialcoelho #eltchat distant to L1 / L2 good - gives you new perspective - indeed!
9:09 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho thanks #eltchat
9:09 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson Great idea Dave... u have vaulable opinions to give - I know ;-) #ELTchat
9:10 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Fuertesun : -))) YW Leahn #eltchat
9:10 pm	seburnt:	I've learned bits and pieces of several languages, but I'm nowhere near able to hold a conversation in any of them. #ELTchat
9:10 pm	vbenevolofranca:	Think it is true for NNESTs & non NNESTs it gives us insight into the cognitive aspect of the learning & teaching of a FL. #ELTchat
9:10 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho @seburnt @sandymillin Not so sure. I knew many typicla Turkish student errors before I ever knew Turkish! #ELTchat
9:10 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat @DaveDodgson many NNESTs have a very expat/colonial attitude to learning languages in countries they teach
9:11 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat @DaveDodgson many NNESTs have a very expat/colonial attitude to learning languages in countries they teach
9:11 pm	cecilialcoelho:	We had a NEST come spend a year here and she never learned any Portuguese - never showed any interest. #ELTChat
9:11 pm	fionamau:	RT @vbenevolofranca: it gives us insight into the cognitive aspect of the learning & teaching of FL. #ELTchat >also affective eg frustration
9:11 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @cecilialcoelho: We had a NEST come spend a year here and she never learned any Portuguese - never showed any interest. #ELTChat
9:11 pm	lolonagi:	we do not have to speak the language to know the structure, I mean thorough search would do the trick to know the mistakes of ss #eltchat
9:11 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @cecilialcoelho: We had a NEST come spend a year here and she never learned any Portuguese - never showed any interest. #ELTChat shame
9:12 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson You may have known (or predict) the mistakes before u learned, but did you understand why? #ELTchat
9:12 pm	sandymillin:	#eltchat Especially good for fresh-off-CELTA teachers who really can't remember / don't know what it's like for SS (reduces TTT!?)
9:12 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @fionamau: RT @vbenevolofranca: it gives us insight into the cognitive aspect of the learning & teaching of FL. #ELTchat >also affective eg frustration
9:12 pm	esolcourses:	RT @fionamau: RT @vbenevolofranca: it gives us insight into the cognitive aspect of the learning & teaching of FL. #ELTchat >also affective eg frustration
9:12 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Fuertesun Completely agree... Why come to a different country if not to experience the culture, right? #ELTChat
9:12 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @fionamau: RT @vbenevolofranca: it gives us insight into the cognitive aspect of the learning & teaching of FL. #ELTchat >also affective eg frustration
9:12 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho The problem there is, you teach English, your social contacts speak English/want to speak English... #ELTchat
9:12 pm	sandymillin:	@DaveDodgson #eltchat Not vital to know L1 to recognise SS errors, but helps you see more and get into intricacies?
9:13 pm	johnsonmaryj:	When I study Italian in Italy w/ students from all over world, I experience (as a learner) techniques of #eltchatteachers. So useful.
9:13 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho ...mkaes it difficult to learn. Plus if you think 'just a year' there's little motivation #ELTchat
9:13 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @DaveDodgson: @cecilialcoelho The problem there is, you teach English, your social contacts speak English/want to speak English... #ELTchat
9:13 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C @DaveDodgson #eltchat expat attitude < I agree. I teach in Czech Rep, and most of my colleagues don't understand why I learn Cz
9:13 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @sandymillin: #eltchat Especially good for fresh-off-CELTA teachers > Especially for those > We teach them a foreign language for a bit
9:13 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson I see your point Dave... It happens here too - Everyone wants to speak Eng to NESTs. I make a conscious effort not to #ELTchat
9:13 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Yes, I would notice a certain error, other s would tell me "that's because in Turkish..." #ELTchat
9:14 pm	fionamau:	RT @lolonagi - #eltchat bt 'walk the talk' is always gd philosophy.makes fr better dynamic if sts feel they can teach u 2, swap idioms etc
9:14 pm	Marisa_C:	@sandymillin A very limited attitude I find #eltchat
9:15 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson I disagree when u say just a year = little motivation Dave. Time shouldn't be relevant. Then why go 2 a diff country? #ELTchat
9:15 pm	DaveDodgson:	@seburnt @cecilialcoelho Same when I 1st came to Turkey - little reason to go beyond asking for things in the supermarket! #ELTchat
9:15 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho I live on tourist island evryone wants to practice their Eng here too!@cecilialcoelho#ELTchat
9:15 pm	vbenevolofranca:	RT @cecilialcoelho Had a NEST spend a yr here.she never learned any Portuguese-... #ELTChat> Like to think this is an exception to the rule.
9:15 pm	esolcourses:	@ALiCe__M @Marisa_C @sandymillin @DaveDodgson @seburnt find that a bit surprising... wd think it must put them at a disadvantage #ELTchat
9:15 pm	Marisa_C:	@sandymillin I teach them a few lessons in the very basic Turkish I have :-) #ELTchat
9:16 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho I agree was in Thailand for year and I tried! #ELTchat
9:16 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C A very limited attitude I find #eltchat < definitely. But it's the 'only a year' syndrome (& after 5 years, still same opinion)
9:16 pm	fionamau:	#eltchat quite useful to study an L2 with a BAD teacher, and note why things don't work - then reflect on own teaching.
9:16 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@vbenevolofranca Me too Valeria... And think it is, for we had much more examples of the opposite #ELTChat
9:16 pm	sueleather:	@Marisa_C I don't see how it could possibly be a bad thing...? #eltchat
9:16 pm	Fuertesun:	@fionamau that's an idea #eltchat
9:16 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat I think I must try and get our LEARNERS to teach the CELTA teachers a little of THEIR lang - what do you think?
9:17 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho For cheap beer and travel of course :p #ELTchat
9:17 pm	lolonagi:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat I think I must try and get our LEARNERS to teach the CELTA teachers a little of THEIR lang - what do you think?
9:17 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C great idea#ELTchat #ELTchat
9:17 pm	Marisa_C:	@DaveDodgson Awwww how cynical - how true ... #ELTchat
9:17 pm	sandymillin:	@fionamau #eltchat definitely! > study with BAD teacher...but oh, so depressing!
9:17 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@ALiCe__M I agree w/ u there Alice... It shows everyone is a learner in one way or another, & all learners go thru the same process #ELTChat
9:17 pm	AlexandraKouk:	#eltchat Hi all! I have a NEST friend - english teacher - in Greece for 25 years, hardly speaks any Greek!!!
9:18 pm	Marisa_C:	@sueleather Hi Sue! Great to see you here - jump in! Of course it couldn't - everyone agreeing so far #eltchat
9:18 pm	DaveDodgson:	@Marisa_C Good idea - would be interesting to see if the learners adopt the methods they say they like or not ;) #ELTchat
9:18 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @Marisa_C: @DaveDodgson Awwww how cynical - how true ... #ELTchat > Certainly can be true about Brazil ;-)
9:18 pm	peterjohnfenton:	@Marisa_C Sounds like a great idea. In my Trinity TESOL, 2nd lang lessons were compulsory - I learnt a little Czech #eltchat
9:18 pm	esolcourses:	@vbenevolofranca @Fuertesun @cecilialcoelho even if I'm only going on holiday I try! big part of experiencing other cultures, IMO #ELTchat
9:18 pm	johnsonmaryj:	Even when I study a new lng with a good teacher, I want to show them all the cool technology tools for learning. #eltchat
9:18 pm	Marisa_C:	@DaveDodgson Our learners are getting better at assessing the celta trainees than us, the tutors.... :-D #ELTchat
9:19 pm	cgoodey:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat I think I must try & get our LEARNERS to teach CELTA teachers a little of THEIR lang - what do u think? < good idea!
9:19 pm	ALiCe__M:	@Marisa_C I think it's an excellent idea, the most important part would befeedback, I reckon. #eltchat
9:19 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Marisa_C Fabulous idea Marisa!!!! #ELTchat
9:19 pm	Marisa_C:	@cgoodey THanks! WHo cares what methods the learners use! #ELTchat
9:19 pm	Larryferlazzo:	RT @Marisa_C: @cgoodey THanks! WHo cares what methods the learners use! #ELTchat
9:19 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @ALiCe__M: @Marisa_C I think it's an excellent idea, the most important part would befeedback, I reckon. #eltchat
9:19 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C @sueleather #eltchat if everyone's agreeing, we're the converted. How do we persuade the language-shy? (as multilingual obsessive)
9:20 pm	esolcourses:	RT @Marisa_C #ELTchat I think I must try & get LEARNERS to teach the CELTA teachers a little of THEIR lang - what do you think? Gr8 idea!
9:20 pm	sandymillin:	RT @cgoodey: RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat I think I must try & get our LEARNERS to teach CELTA teachers a little of THEIR lang - what do u think? < good idea!
9:20 pm	fionamau:	RT @Fuertesun #eltchat my dad failed 2 learn Spanish fr 3 yrs w teacher; his experience v helpful fr my teaching.Now he uses Aguila Roja ;-)
9:20 pm	seburnt:	I was in Korea for 6 years & never met a career EFL teacher. Every1 was there 4 various reasons; none were to teach EFL 4ever. #ELTchat
9:20 pm	cgoodey:	@Marisa_C Exactly! Might learn new ways of teaching!! #ELTchat
9:20 pm	DaveDodgson:	@Marisa_C Student assessment of trainees is a great idea - highly relevant, isn't it? #ELTchat
9:20 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @DaveDodgson: @Marisa_C Student assessment of trainees is a great idea - highly relevant, isn't it? #ELTchat> Absolutely! I always ask
9:21 pm	Marisa_C:	@DaveDodgson and moreover they ALWAYS know! all the grades.. #ELTchat
9:21 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@esolcourses @vbenevolofranca @Fuertesun Me too Sue! But is it natural 4 us - being Ts certainly shows a liking for langs #ELTchat
9:21 pm	ALiCe__M:	@Marisa_C @cgoodey might also give teachers an insight to the way learners see "good teaching" #eltchat
9:22 pm	seburnt:	Now, it's a matter of time--Does learning another language outweigh blogging, prep and other extracurricular teacher stuff? #ELTchat
9:22 pm	sueleather:	I suppose an interesting question might be if one could actually prove that teaching improves if you learn a language yourself. #eltchat
9:22 pm	DaveDodgson:	I think learning a 2nd language is useful to remember what's it's like to be a learner more than for understanding students' errors #ELTchat
9:22 pm	esolcourses:	@cecilialcoelho @vbenevolofranca @Fuertesun had assumed it was a natural, but from what others have said, possibly not #ELTchat
9:22 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@seburnt It's not uncommon in Brazil - tho bigger, more serious schools are a bit different. Many former exchange STs as Eng Ts. #ELTChat
9:22 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @DaveDodgson: I think learning a 2nd language is useful to remember what's it's like to be a learner more than for understanding students' errors #ELTchat
9:22 pm	cgoodey:	RT @DaveDodgson: I think learning a 2nd language is useful to remember what's it's like to be a learner more than for understanding students' errors #ELTchat
9:22 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho #eltchat depends on if you're career teacher or just doing it because you don't know what else to do :s
9:22 pm	esolcourses:	RT @sueleather: interesting question might be if one could actually prove that teaching improves if you learn a language yourself. #eltchat
9:22 pm	fionamau:	RT @cecilialcoelho: But is it natural 4 us - being Ts certainly shows a liking for langs #ELTchat >> make that 'being dedicated teachers'
9:23 pm	sueleather:	As opposed to,say, learning a new skill like skiing or tai chi. #eltchat
9:23 pm	Marisa_C:	@sueleather I think we really don't have any serious research to back this up with - does anyone know of any? #eltchat
9:23 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@fionamau Ok :-) Dedicated, passionate, career ETL teachers :-) #ELTchat
9:23 pm	sandymillin:	@seburnt #eltchat good point, but one hour once a month just for tasters, or trying to use odd phrases outside school takes little time
9:23 pm	esolcourses:	@sueleather I'd say learning languages as an adult & discovering what works 4 me has given me strategies I wouldn't otherwise have #ELTchat
9:24 pm	AlexandraKouk:	@DaveDodgson #eltchat Absolutely agree
9:24 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@sandymillin Agreed Sandy... or maybe just making a few quick (easy) bucks while can't find a job u want #eltchat
9:24 pm	pdguymikeg:	RT @esolcourses: RT @cecilialcoelho: Learning any lang put u in the STs' shoes and makes you relate better to what / how they feel #ELTchat
9:24 pm	fionamau:	RT @DaveDodgson: useful 2remember what it's like 2 b a learner #ELTchat > exactly. it's the affective bit, being aware of how HARD it can be
9:24 pm	sueleather:	@Marisa_C Yes.. the research would be interesting- and probably not very convincing:) #eltchat
9:25 pm	sandymillin:	@esolcourses @sueleather & learning languages in diff ways - 2 at school, 1 at uni, 1 in country, 1 with friend - all diff. methods #eltchat
9:25 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@seburnt Ouch!!! Right on where it hurts Tyson! So so true... I think part of my insomnia comes from trying to do it all #ELTchat
9:25 pm	johnsonmaryj:	Agree with @DaveDodgson. Learning another lng builds empathy, not just teaching strategies. #eltchat
9:25 pm	fionamau:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @fionamau Ok :-) Dedicated, passionate, career ETL teachers :-) #ELTchat - claro and of course :-))
9:25 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson I think both reasons are equally valid Dave. Reminds you of both sides #ELTchat
9:25 pm	sueleather:	@esolcourses I agree...but it's all quite anecdotal isn't it? Not that there's anything wrong with that:) #eltchat
9:25 pm	Marisa_C:	@sueleather Cambridge might be able to do it - there are high Nos of celta's every year - q-aire they complete could include this #eltchat
9:26 pm	esolcourses:	RT @sandymillin: @esolcourses @sueleather & learning languages in diff ways - 2 at school, 1 at uni, 1 in country, 1 with friend - all diff. methods #eltchat
9:26 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat - There is a research hypothesis here for anyone interested in pursuing this ....
9:26 pm	vbenevolofranca:	RT @esolcourses: @sueleather I'd say learning languages as an adult & discovering what works 4 me has given me strategies I wouldn't otherwise have #ELTchat
9:26 pm	sueleather:	@Marisa_C Good idea. At least you could get some qualitative data. #eltchat
9:27 pm	esolcourses:	@sueleather agree... although in theory I suppose it would be possible to research it #ELTchat
9:27 pm	sandymillin:	#eltchat and the time thing is sth our SS can deal with (job, family, hobbies, studies, sleep and English!), so we should too
9:27 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho I'm not convinced by the 'know their L1 influenced errors' arguement .... #ELTchat
9:27 pm	seburnt:	@sandymillin I'd rarely have opp to use a FL outside of school in Toronto, which may be multicultural, but who speaks what? #ELTchat
9:27 pm	lolonagi:	@Marisa_C I think this a very interesting area that lack research #eltchat
9:27 pm	Marisa_C:	Whoa! Am thankful for @esolcourses and @ceciliacoelho ... not catching up with all your comments!!! #ELTchat
9:27 pm	cecilialcoelho:	Do you, as a lang teacher feel awkward being back in the role of the ST? Assess yr T's technique differently? That happened to me. #ELTChat
9:27 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho ... Natural Order Hypothesis suggests the pattern of learning is largely the same regardless of the students' L1 #ELTchat
9:27 pm	fionamau:	@sandymillin #eltchat not just career teachers; depends on attitude 2 'foreigners' eg Brits who spend life criticising Spain n work here...
9:28 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho I feel frustrated learning German.. #ELTChat
9:28 pm	esolcourses:	RT @DaveDodgson: I think learning a 2nd language is useful to remember what's it's like to be a learner more than for understanding students' errors #ELTchat
9:28 pm	cybraryman1:	My Foreign Language pages: http://bit.ly/27FSD #eltchat
9:28 pm	Marisa_C:	@sueleather .... to correlate with their grades possibly...? #eltchat
9:28 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho I like being the student #ELTChat
9:28 pm	sandymillin:	@seburnt #eltchat OK, that was from my living in country mindset ;) although there must be someone (found French spkr here after 2.5 years!)
9:28 pm	cybraryman1:	@Fuertesun I have some German links on my FL page: http://bit.ly/7mBkTo #eltchat
9:28 pm	seburnt:	@cecilialcoelho True. We all could be learning other languages right now instead of tweeting. ;) #ELTchat
9:28 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Not sure - I learned Turkish without a teacher! #ELTchat
9:28 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat Who would like to take part in a beginner Modern Greek course online?
9:29 pm	Fuertesun:	@cybraryman1 thanks #eltchat
9:29 pm	sandymillin:	@Fuertesun @cecilialcoelho I like being the student #ELTChat < me too! Love it :)
9:29 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson How can u not be convinced by that argument? I think it makes perfect sense. #ELTchat
9:29 pm	Mbarek:	Hi all , great discussion going on #Eltchat
9:29 pm	peterjohnfenton:	I think Dornyei wrote that having a good model (i.e. teacher learning a 2nd language) can help improve motivation in learners #ELTchat
9:29 pm	Marisa_C:	@Mbarek Hi and welcome! #Eltchat
9:29 pm	Fuertesun:	@cybraryman1 have a German partner and German TV! but need to learn the grammar #eltchat
9:29 pm	cgoodey:	Our experiences of learning L2s will b different from our learners so important not 2 make assumptions about their learning... #eltchat
9:29 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C #ELTChat sounds good
9:29 pm	Mbarek:	@Marisa_C Hi Marisa , glad to see u here #Eltchat
9:30 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @peterjohnfenton: I think Dornyei wrote that having a good model (i.e.T learning an L2) can help improve motivation in learners #ELTchat
9:30 pm	Marisa_C:	@annapires #ELTchat am counting you in!
9:30 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@sandymillin @Fuertesun Don't get me wrong, I like being a ST bt had a harder time Bing a lang ST again, after Tching Eng 4 so long #ELTChat
9:30 pm	sandymillin:	@peterjohnfenton #ELTChat my SS often say they like my lessons because they know I understand. Always tell them in lesson 1 tht I spk 4 lngs
9:30 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C Very diff I lived on the Peoploneese six months only remmeber a parot's claw ! #ELTchat
9:31 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Students around the world find the same things difficult whatever their L1 is. L1 influenced errors are minor and.. #ELTchat
9:31 pm	seburnt:	@sandymillin That's right. My L2 doesn't have to be a practical choice, I suppose. #ELTchat
9:31 pm	esolcourses:	@DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho I've learnt languages without a teacher, but I think need to be very motivated to do it successfully #eltchat
9:31 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho yes more crtitical? #ELTChat
9:31 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun I don't even know what that is in my own language! He he #ELTchat
9:31 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho ..quite easily resolved in my experience #ELTchat
9:31 pm	VictoriaB52:	#eltchat a most valuable teaching lesson was when I sat through a Vietnamese listening lesson for an hour...unable to hear different tones
9:31 pm	Mbarek:	RT @esolcourses: @DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho I've learnt languages without a teacher, but I think need to be very motivated to do it successfully #eltchat
9:31 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C What about a ferret's toe? #ELTchat
9:32 pm	peterjohnfenton:	@sandymillin good idea! If teacher can do it, why can't I? #ELTchat
9:32 pm	seburnt:	@cecilialcoelho @sandymillin @Fuertesun I'm sure I'd evaluate my T's teaching style and activity choices. LOL #ELTchat
9:32 pm	Mbarek:	@esolcourses Absolutely , it's all about motivation #eltchat
9:32 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun #ELTchat u gotta be kidding me ... lol
9:32 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson Strongly disagree there Dave... You have your pool of common mistakes all around, but you also have V specific ... #ELTchat
9:32 pm	sandymillin:	@cgoodey #ELTChat all learners' experiences are diff, so helps us to appreciate that more -can plan 1 lesson for all, but to get it is diff.
9:32 pm	lolonagi:	@esolcourses do agree about motivation #eltchat
9:33 pm	fionamau:	RT @peterjohnfenton: Dornyei:teacher learning a 2nd lang can improve motivatn in learners #ELTchat> changes perceived roles, same boat feel
9:33 pm	Fuertesun:	@seburnt Can you imagine! just finished a com comp course with 15 teachers imagine what they were saying after class LOL #ELTchat
9:33 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson .... repetitive mistakes by STs of specific L1s. And not only in pronunciation, but grammar, vocab... #ELTchat
9:33 pm	esolcourses:	@DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho not sure I agree with you on that, Dave - particularly where pronunciation is concerned #eltchat
9:33 pm	vbenevolofranca:	RT@Marisa_C: #ELTchat Who would like to take part in beginner Modern Greek course online?>would be gr8: different alphabet & new phonology!
9:33 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C I still remember....it was a5 years ago! #ELTchat
9:34 pm	DaveDodgson:	Wait! I did have a 4 week Turkish course - teacher hell-bent on grammar & explained everything in English! I quit after 2 weeks ;) #ELTchat
9:34 pm	Marisa_C:	In my school my trainees have to do teaching practice with real beginners - V. difficult to teach without understanding & empathy #ELTchat
9:34 pm	Fuertesun:	@VictoriaB52 YES I'm tone deaf it Thailand was a nightmare #eltchat
9:34 pm	esolcourses:	@DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho having a non-western L1 alphabet is another issue #eltchat
9:34 pm	cgoodey:	Aah! Not easy to keep up!! #eltchat
9:34 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@seburnt @sandymillin @Fuertesun LOL! Exactly what happened to me! Always caught myself thinking (why didn't she do it like that?)#ELTchat
9:34 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat I think it is the low level learners who benefit from this even more
9:34 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho @Fuertesun #ELTChat know what you mean about frustration, but maybe we could share what we know (like @Marisa_C's Greek)
9:35 pm	Marisa_C:	@cgoodey I'm following ya! #eltchat
9:35 pm	sueleather:	A danger is that a teacher who's a good language learner still can't understand the problems of learners who are more challenged. #eltchat
9:35 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho Can you imagine all the crtiiques good job got thick skin #ELTchat
9:35 pm	cgoodey:	@Marisa_C :-) #eltchat
9:35 pm	esolcourses:	RT @sueleather: A danger is that a teacher who's a good language learner still can't understand the problems of learners who are more challenged. #eltchat
9:35 pm	cgoodey:	RT @sueleather: A danger is that a teacher who's a good language learner still can't understand the problems of learners who are more challenged. #eltchat
9:35 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @sueleather: A danger: a T who's a good lang Learner still can't understand the problems of learners who are more challenged. #eltchat
9:35 pm	vbenevolofranca:	RT @cgoodey: Our experiences learning L2s different from our learners important not 2 make assumptions about their learning.. #eltchat> True
9:36 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @Marisa_C: In my school my trainees have to do teaching practice with real beginners - V. difficult to teach without understanding & empathy #ELTchat
9:36 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho but most of those issues are easily resolved. 3rd person present simple singular is not #ELTchat
9:36 pm	flexolern:	RT @ShellTerrell: One way to overcome burnout is to find ways to have fun with lessons! #eltchat<<< true!
9:36 pm	sueleather:	So in fact, in that case, learning a language can have the opposite effect than that desired.... #eltchat
9:36 pm	Marisa_C:	@sueleather Excellent point Sue - but even though I think I am 1 there were still levels of empathy that I would otherwise not have #eltchat
9:36 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @Marisa_C: RT @sueleather: A danger: a T who's a good lang Learner still can't understand the problems of learners who are more challenged. #eltchat
9:37 pm	goralkai:	RT @cybraryman1: Administrators should provide more support & help for teachers to combat the stress #eltchat
9:37 pm	ALiCe__M:	@Marisa_C Sure, but this does not rule out the invaluable experience of having been a learner oneself #eltchat
9:37 pm	DaveDodgson:	@esolcourses Again, I think that comes back to pronunciation/accent #ELTchat
9:37 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @ALiCe__M: @Marisa_C Sure, but this does not rule out the invaluable experience of having been a learner oneself #eltchat > Agree fully
9:37 pm	fionamau:	RT @DaveDodgson: @cecilialcoelho - 3rd person present simple singular is not #ELTchat only important in exams, not in communication....
9:38 pm	Marisa_C:	@englishraven Welcome my co - moderator! I have had to seek inside help!!! Been on me own :-D #ELTchat
9:38 pm	Fuertesun:	@cecilialcoelho I nevr got the subjunctive in French #eltchat
9:38 pm	englishraven:	@cecilialcoelho @esolcourses @annapires Whoops! My thoughts just trespassed on #ELTChat ! Not normally about at this time...
9:38 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Marisa_C I'd love to learn Greek online :-) #ELTchat
9:38 pm	englishraven:	@Marisa_C Shall I dive in late and attempt to help out? #ELTChat :-)
9:38 pm	Marisa_C:	@cecilialcoelho I'm counting you in too! #ELTchat
9:38 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Same in Turkey - but I don't see that as an L1 issue. #ELTchat
9:38 pm	Marisa_C:	@englishraven Yay! #ELTChat
9:39 pm	sandymillin:	@sueleather #ELTChat yes, but as a good language learner, we could share techniques / enthusiasm - gives SS same boat feeling
9:39 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Learners who have a pres perfect equivalent in their L1 also struggle with it! #ELTchat
9:39 pm	englishraven:	RT @ALiCe__M: @Marisa_C Sure, but this does not rule out the invaluable experience of having been a learner oneself #eltchat
9:39 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @DaveDodgson: @cecilialcoelho Learners who have a pres perfect equivalent in their L1 also struggle with it! #ELTchat > True
9:39 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Fuertesun Don't get me started on French... had great difficulty and little time. Put it on standby for a while :-( Miss it #eltchat
9:39 pm	englishraven:	RT @sueleather: So in fact, in that case, learning a language can have the opposite effect than that desired.... #eltchat
9:40 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho @Marisa_C I'd love to learn Greek online :-) #ELTchat < me too (have a little bit, but not much!)
9:40 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat - if of course a monolingual class this is even more valuable for contrastive analysis and understanding of source of error
9:40 pm	fionamau:	#eltchat - not 'getting' subjunctives or prepositions or tones probably helps our teachg! Fewer unreal demands on sts,more realistic aims...
9:40 pm	Marisa_C:	@sandymillin Am counting you in too :-D #ELTchat
9:40 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@Marisa_C @DaveDodgson Agree, but I can't believe they struggle as much. I have only taught Brazilians so far though #ELTchat
9:41 pm	sandymillin:	@DaveDodgson #ELTchat but regardless of specifics, all these problems help you remember how hard it is to learn new lang
9:41 pm	Mbarek:	I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat
9:41 pm	VictoriaB52:	#eltchat I found learning Vietnamese nigh on impossible Listening and speaking-wise. Was a great help - esp re teaching listening skills
9:41 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson I think your Turkish course sounds V similar to my French. I think the teacher just didn't convince me. #ELTchat
9:41 pm	cgoodey:	My exp. of learning langs is that I had 2 get out there & use the language & get lots of exposure. How does that help in classroom? #eltchat
9:41 pm	Marisa_C:	@VictoriaB52 but you tried... #eltchat
9:42 pm	englishraven:	Surely it's the 'public effort' that counts, though... especially when you try the learners own L1? #ELTChat
9:42 pm	sandymillin:	#ELTchat sometimes give SS 5 minutes at end of class to quiz me in Czech to help them see errors don't matter (esp. reluctant speakers)
9:42 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C I have real problems when I teach in multi-lingual classes as I rely on my knowledge of Spanish too much #ELTchat
9:42 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @Mbarek: I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat > Completely agree :-)
9:42 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Plus, I don't need to speak Portuguese to know they don't use perfect tenses & will find it difficult ;) #ELTchat
9:42 pm	fionamau:	RT @Marisa_C Learners with a pres perfect equivalent in their L1 also struggle w it! #ELTchat >but bks make an issue of it so it's scary!
9:42 pm	esolcourses:	RT @Mbarek: I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat ] absolutely!
9:42 pm	ALiCe__M:	@sueleather In my eyes, learning a language can have nothing but good effects, teachingwise #eltchat
9:42 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson Now, now... did I hear a patronizing tone there??? ;-P #ELTchat
9:42 pm	DaveDodgson:	@sandymillin That was my original point! #ELTchat
9:42 pm	Marisa_C:	@fionamau Books make an issue of a lot of things to fill up the pages - in my view #ELTchat
9:42 pm	esolcourses:	RT @ALiCe__M: @sueleather In my eyes, learning a language can have nothing but good effects, teachingwise #eltchat
9:42 pm	englishraven:	@cgoodey Perhaps it helps you find ways to approach or mimic the "getting out there" factor in a classroom? #ELTChat
9:42 pm	VictoriaB52:	#eltchat I also discovered I learn languages differently to how I teach them. I'm still questioning why.
9:43 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @VictoriaB52: #eltchat I also discovered I learn languages differently to how I teach them. I'm still questioning why.
9:43 pm	fionamau:	RT @sandymillin: @DaveDodgson #ELTchat but regardless of specifics, all these problems help you remember how hard it is to learn new lang
9:43 pm	sandymillin:	RT @esolcourses: RT @Mbarek: I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat] absolutely!
9:43 pm	lolonagi:	@DaveDodgson for example I know that arab ss do not say verb to be because in arabic we do not have it, #eltchatit really helps
9:43 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun We have multilingual classes here for TPs so the Ts have had to really not rely on L1 #ELTchat
9:43 pm	fionamau:	RT @Mbarek: I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat
9:43 pm	Fuertesun:	@VictoriaB52 I'm grammar obsessed when I learn a language now #eltchat
9:43 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@sandymillin Love the idea Sandy... What can u guys suggest I can do to have similar effect? (NNEST teaching in home country)? #ELTchat
9:44 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat - time flies with you all - and I thought this topic was not going to generate many comments! Little did I know...
9:44 pm	englishraven:	The strategies you can pass on as a language 'learner' are often very different from the strategies of the language 'teacher' #ELTChat
9:44 pm	esolcourses:	@Marisa_C @fionamau great plenary by Mark Powell at #BESIG on this - present/past simple make up circa 70% of English usage #eltchat
9:44 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C I did Cert in UK so that was good and used to go back evry summer which helps #ELTchat
9:44 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho I remember saying something in past tense (just a phrase I'd heard) - she told me not to use lang we hadn't learnt! #ELTchat
9:44 pm	cgoodey:	@englishraven Yes. Making interactions as genuine and relevant as possible. Good! :-) #ELTChat
9:44 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @DaveDodgson: @cecilialcoelho I remember saying something in past tense (just a phrase I'd heard) - she told me not to use lang we hadn't learnt! #ELTchat
9:44 pm	englishraven:	RT @Fuertesun: @VictoriaB52 I'm grammar obsessed when I learn a language now #eltchat > Is that the teacher experience/effect? :-)
9:44 pm	Mbarek:	when comparing l1& l2 we can expect some of the learners potential errors and prepare remedial work #eltchat
9:44 pm	esolcourses:	RT @englishraven: The strategies you can pass on as a language 'learner' are often very different from the strategies of the language 'teacher' #ELTChat
9:45 pm	Fuertesun:	@englishraven No idea! #eltchat
9:45 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun Summer school good for that as long as you don't end up teaching one nationality - no issue just to keep ur hand in #ELTchat
9:45 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson Not exactly what I'd call a constructive teacher now, was she? #ELTchat
9:45 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho hmm.. that's harder. #ELTchat Any other common lang's in class? looks sheepish
9:45 pm	VictoriaB52:	I'm a 'bad' learner acc. to all the ELT books. I like to swot on my own til I'm confident enough to speak. Sorry. Just am. #eltchat
9:45 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho Not at all - just a bit of devil's advocate ;) #ELTchat
9:45 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @esolcourses: RT @ALiCe__M: @sueleather In my eyes, learning a language can have nothing but good effects, teachingwise #eltchat
9:45 pm	fionamau:	RT @Marisa_C: @fionamau Books make an issue o a lot of things 2 fill up the pages - in my view #ELTchat they do, & make em scary. Viva dogme
9:46 pm	sandymillin:	@englishraven strategies you can pass on as a language 'learner' often very different from strategies of language 'teacher' #ELTChat <yes!
9:46 pm	esolcourses:	RT @VictoriaB52: I'm a 'bad' learner acc. to all the ELT books. I like to swot on my own til I'm confident enough to speak #eltchat
9:46 pm	DaveDodgson:	@VictoriaB52 And it's important to remind ourselves our students can be like that #ELTchat
9:46 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@sandymillin Afraid not... Thanks for sympathizing though :-) #ELTchat
9:46 pm	Marisa_C:	@esolcourses I think Mark Powell's plenary has been recorded and is now available for viewing #besig - anyone have link handy? #eltchat
9:46 pm	ALiCe__M:	@englishraven Exactement ! but after a while both merge into each other (please correct syntax if necessary!) #eltchat
9:46 pm	englishraven:	RT @VictoriaB52: I like to swot on my own til I'm confident enough to speak. #eltchat > Doubtless you have learners who are similar!
9:46 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@VictoriaB52 I also learn differently. Love a good grammar class... #eltchat
9:46 pm	sandymillin:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @DaveDodgson Not exactly what I'd call a constructive teacher now, was she? #ELTchat
9:46 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho L?ke I said, I quit after 2 weeks! #ELTchat
9:46 pm	englishraven:	RT @annapires: Same here! RT @VictoriaB52 #eltchat I also discovered I learn languages differently to how I teach them. I'm still questioning why.
9:46 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @englishraven: The strategies you can pass on as a language 'learner' are often very different from the strategies of the language 'teacher' #ELTChat
9:47 pm	Marisa_C:	@englishraven I discovered I was fine as far as speaking listening but when it came to reading my first text oh Boy! #eltchat
9:47 pm	sandymillin:	@VictoriaB52 #eltchat but still lets you experience what it's like for learners with similar style to you. Gives thm 'quiet time' if thy nd
9:47 pm	fionamau:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @DaveDodgson #ELTchat re patronising ;-P, NOT learning local lang & teachg Eng can b seen as imperialistic & patronising
9:47 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson I wonder why u quit after 2 weeks... ;-P (BTW like playing the devil's advocate too) #ELTchat
9:48 pm	englishraven:	People are all different and there's no magic formula for language learning. Important to demonstrate that to learners! #ELTChat
9:48 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @englishraven: People are all different and there's no magic formula for language learning. Important to demonstrate that to learners! #ELTChat
9:48 pm	englishraven:	RT @fionamau: RT @cecilialcoelho: @DaveDodgson #ELTchat re patronising ;-P, NOT learning local lang & teachg Eng can b seen as imperialistic & patronising
9:48 pm	sandymillin:	@DaveDodgson L?ke I said, I quit after 2 weeks! #ELTchat < but sure you watched and learnt more things not to do!
9:48 pm	VictoriaB52:	#eltchat makes one more confident about challenging perceived 'right and wrong' ways of teaching.
9:48 pm	esolcourses:	@Marisa_C yep - Mark Powell's #BESIG plenary videos here, on Vicky Hollet's bloghttp://bit.ly/hvO7hH + gr8 post by Vicky, too! #ELTchat
9:48 pm	DaveDodgson:	@englishraven @annapires @VictoriaB52 Well, I learnt my L2 almost entirely out of the classroom - definitely diff. to how I teach! #ELTchat
9:49 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven @Fuertesun @VictoriaB52 Considering I'm equally grammar abscessed I'd say there's possbility of it Bing T exp/effect #eltchat
9:49 pm	Mbarek:	I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat
9:49 pm	sandymillin:	RT @VictoriaB52: #eltchat makes one more confident about challenging perceived 'right and wrong' ways of teaching.
9:49 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @esolcourses: @Marisa_C yep - Mark Powell's #BESIG plenary videos here, http://bit.ly/hvO7hH+ gr8 post by Vicky, too! #ELTchat - THX!!!
9:49 pm	englishraven:	@DaveDodgson But there will be tidbits and streams that can productively connect the two experiences, right? #ELTChat
9:49 pm	englishraven:	RT @Mbarek: I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat
9:50 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @Mbarek: I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat> ..and the lesson in this?
9:50 pm	sandymillin:	@Mbarek I lspeak 3 lgs other than my L1 and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat <me neither, but still learning! nobody's perfect!
9:50 pm	DaveDodgson:	@englishraven Yes - I pass on my vocab learning strategies & self-study ideas to my classes #ELTchat
9:50 pm	fionamau:	@VictoriaB52 #eltchat - ELT books put too much emphasis on speaker-learners and not enough on listener-learners. shd be remedied.
9:50 pm	jbjimenez:	RT @DaveDodgson:Well, I learnt my L2 almost entirely out of the classroom - definitely diff. to how I teach! #ELTchat
9:50 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @Marisa_C: RT @Mbarek: I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat > .. Perfection not imp
9:50 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven Agree. It's more difficult for NNESTs in their own country thou, teaching ppl of same nationality as you #ELTChat
9:50 pm	englishraven:	2 dynamics? Lang teacher -> Lang learner // Lang learner -> Lang teacher #ELTChat
9:51 pm	cgoodey:	Yes! RT @englishraven: Ppl are all different &there's no magic formula 4 language learning. Important 2 demonstrate that 2 learners #ELTChat
9:51 pm	linguaprof:	true RT @Mbarek: when comparing l1& l2 we can expect some of the learners potential errors and prepare remedial work #eltchat
9:51 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @VictoriaB52: #eltchat makes one more confident about challenging perceived 'right and wrong' ways of teaching. > Soooo agree!
9:51 pm	sheepilamb:	RT @esolcourses: RT @Mbarek: I think we should accept errors esp in grammar they are signs of learning .#eltchat] absolutely!
9:51 pm	DaveDodgson:	@englishraven Also, the general experience of having studied another lang from beginner-advanced level is useful whatever the lang #ELTchat
9:51 pm	cgoodey:	RT @VictoriaB52: #eltchat makes one more confident about challenging perceived 'right and wrong' ways of teaching < Agreed! Very interesting
9:51 pm	sandymillin:	@DaveDodgson Yes - I pass on my vocab learning strategies & self-study ideas #ELTchat < me 2, lots of varierty as lots of experience!
9:51 pm	Mbarek:	@Fuertesun just acceptable fluency and accuracy #eltchat
9:51 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun @Mbarek #eltchat ...empathy ? tolerance of error? more realistic goals for our learners?
9:52 pm	sandymillin:	RT @Fuertesun: RT @Marisa_C: RT @Mbarek: I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat > .. Perfection not imp
9:52 pm	peterjohnfenton:	RT @fionamau: ELT books put too much emphasis on speaker-learners and not enough on listener-learners. shd be remedied. #ELTchat - so true!
9:52 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven Yes, I think there r 2 dynamics. Being a lang T makes u a diff lang learner and the other way around #ELTChat
9:52 pm	Fuertesun:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @englishraven Yes, I think there r 2 dynamics. Being a lang T makes u a diff lang learner and the other way around #ELTChat
9:52 pm	ALiCe__M:	@Marisa_C Who cares about "perfect"? does everyone know every single word in the dictionary? perfection is not life, language is. #eltchat
9:52 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @Marisa_C: @Fuertesun @Mbarek #eltchat ...empathy ? tolerance of error? more realistic goals for our learners? > All of the above :-)
9:52 pm	cgoodey:	It'd be interesting to know how many people feel they learnt more on their own, without a teacher #ELTchat
9:53 pm	fionamau:	RT @Mbarek: I lspeak 3 lgs other than my mother tongue and I m perfect at none of them :( #eltchat-> I wouldn't say I'm prefect at my L1!!
9:53 pm	esolcourses:	RT @ALiCe__M: @Marisa_C Who cares about "perfect"? does everyone know every single word in the dictionary? perfection is not life, language is. #eltchat
9:53 pm	Mbarek:	tha aim should not be to speak like a native speaker but to speak fluently #eltchat
9:53 pm	hoprea:	Late again.... sigh!!! #ELTChat
9:53 pm	englishraven:	@DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho Right. How I learned an L2 affected my (later) teaching, which in turn affected how I learned an L3! #ELTChat
9:53 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @ALiCe__M: @Marisa_C Who cares about "perfect"? does everyone know every single word in the dictionary? perfection is not life, language is. #eltchat
9:53 pm	Fuertesun:	@cgoodey learning Spanish YES on my own.... grammar me and my book German with TV #ELTchat
9:53 pm	cgoodey:	RT @Fuertesun: @cgoodey learning Spanish YES on my own.... grammar me and my book German with TV #ELTchat
9:53 pm	Marisa_C:	@ALiCe__M Indeed - but some people are fearful of making mistakes - there is a Greek term for it "aphasia lathophobic" ... #eltchat
9:54 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cgoodey I did but I was in a total immersion situation, which obviously changes things #ELTchat
9:54 pm	Mbarek:	@fionamau not at all :-) #eltchat
9:54 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@ALiCe__M I personally think perfection is an illusion, and even if it existed, it'd be boring as heck :-) #eltchat
9:54 pm	englishraven:	So I recommend an ongoing cycle, I guess... Learn an L2, teach, learn more (or another L2), teach, etc... :-) #ELTChat
9:54 pm	englishraven:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @ALiCe__M I personally think perfection is an illusion, and even if it existed, it'd be boring as heck :-) #eltchat
9:54 pm	esolcourses:	RT @englishraven: @DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho same here (I think!) I also think that learning subsequent languages felt easier #ELTChat
9:54 pm	Marisa_C:	@hoprea better late than never.... you have about 6 mins left #ELTChat
9:55 pm	Fuertesun:	@cgoodey I've not had German tch since school picked up from partner and TV and 12 yrs exposure still very poor #ELTchat
9:55 pm	Marisa_C:	RT@cecilialcoelho Right. How I learned an L2 affected my (later) teaching, which in turn affected how I learned an L3! #ELTChat
9:55 pm	Mbarek:	RT @englishraven: @DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho Right. How I learned an L2 affected my (later) teaching, which in turn affected how I learned an L3! #ELTChat
9:55 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@hoprea Better late than never Rick - Welcome!!! #ELTChat
9:55 pm	DahlD:	RT @Marisa_C: RT@cecilialcoelho Right. How I learned an L2 affected my (later) teaching, which in turn affected how I learned an L3! #ELTChat
9:55 pm	vbenevolofranca:	@cgoodey I actually think it depends on learning style. I need a teacher - way I learnt French. Feel lost without one. #ELTchat
9:55 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven I like that... always going back to the ST role and so on... #ELTChat
9:55 pm	englishraven:	AND, this emphasises to me, folks, why it is such a good thing to have our learners 'teach' from time to time! #ELTChat
9:56 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat If you were to begin a new language now, what language would you like to learn?
9:56 pm	englishraven:	RT @vbenevolofranca: @cgoodey I actually think it depends on learning style. I need a teacher - way I learnt French. Feel lost without one. #ELTchat
9:56 pm	DahlD:	Agreed! RT @englishraven: This emphasises to me, folks, why it is such a good thing to have our learners 'teach' from time to time! #ELTChat
9:56 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @englishraven: AND, this emphasises to me, folks, why it is such a good thing to have our learners 'teach' from time to time! #ELTChat
9:56 pm	esolcourses:	@vbenevolofranca @cgoodey I think it depends on learning style, as well. Love languages, but find grammar a tad dull, tbh :-) ... #eltchat
9:56 pm	Fuertesun:	@englishraven oh yes love getting them up at that board.. #ELTChat
9:56 pm	Mbarek:	@vbenevolofranca natural liguistic environment can be the best teacher #ELTchat
9:56 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C French #ELTchat
9:56 pm	Marisa_C:	@englishraven Students teaching was how I started this - happy my co-mod is in perfect synch! #ELTChat
9:57 pm	lolonagi:	@Fuertesun yay French #eltchat
9:57 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cecilialcoelho @englishraven Going back to being a student is a good idea - problem is, most of the time you go back as a beginner #ELTchat
9:57 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@cgoodey I think I learn better w/ a teacher. Feel V insecure of being wrong if I don't have one to help me #ELTchat
9:57 pm	englishraven:	@Fuertesun Divide a coursebook unit into parts, have teams teach each part. Wonderful experience! #ELTChat
9:57 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @cgoodey I think I learn better w/ a teacher. Feel V insecure of being wrong if I don't have one to help me #ELTchat
9:57 pm	esolcourses:	@vbenevolofranca @cgoodey as a learner, much prefer a dogme approach.. which has prob. influenced my teaching style as well #eltchat
9:57 pm	Marisa_C:	RT @englishraven: @Fuertesun Divide a coursebook unit into parts, have teams teach each part. Wonderful experience! #ELTChat
9:57 pm	englishraven:	@Marisa_C Yes, unscripted too! Great minds and all that... :-) #ELTChat
9:57 pm	fionamau:	RT @Marisa_C: "aphasia lathophobic" #eltchat >I am in sme languages, but not in others. Why?schizo?or is it the feel of the language?
9:58 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson Being a beginner makes me anxious, I agree. But no other way #ELTchat
9:58 pm	Fuertesun:	@englishraven nice idea... the other day in secondary had them explaing there is/are to eachother #ELTChat
9:58 pm	cgoodey:	@vbenevolofranca @ALiCe__M @Fuertesun @DaveDodgson @cecilialcoelho I think I prefered to have a teacher too, initially anyway #ELTchat
9:58 pm	sandymillin:	@Marisa_C #eltchat Modern Greek ;) Or something with a different system...arabic, chinese, korean...
9:58 pm	DahlD:	Makes us better teachers. RT @cecilialcoelho: @DaveDodgson Being a beginner makes me anxious, I agree. But no other way #ELTchat
9:59 pm	Fuertesun:	@englishraven love giving them the mantle and trying to get them responsible for 'weaker' ss #ELTChat
9:59 pm	DaveDodgson:	@cgoodey Depends on the teacher ;) #ELTchat
9:59 pm	Marisa_C:	@fionamau Not sure - I have same issue with some, My own theory is that it's unfamiliar music/tunes till I get it #eltchat
9:59 pm	englishraven:	@Fuertesun Also helps them to appreciate what you do as a teacher, how difficult it can be, how good at it you are :-) #ELTChat
9:59 pm	cgoodey:	@DaveDodgson Yes! Very true ;-) #ELTchat
9:59 pm	englishraven:	RT @Fuertesun: @englishraven love giving them the mantle and trying to get them responsible for 'weaker' ss #ELTChat
9:59 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DahlD Agreed... All experiences make us better teachers because we have the ability to learn from them and use that #ELTchat
10:00 pm	Fuertesun:	@englishraven hahahha have you read that post! I may nvr live it down #ELTChat
10:00 pm	fionamau:	RT @vbenevolofranca: I actually think it depends on learning style. #ELTchat totally agree - some are teacher-dependent, some are not.
10:00 pm	Marisa_C:	@Fuertesun @englishraven #ELTChat There's been great research on this - Ss helping weaker Ss or of lower levels even
10:00 pm	englishraven:	Big question I guess... Should a portion of formal ongoing PD involve learning other languages? #ELTChat
10:00 pm	DaveDodgson:	@englishraven @Fuertesun Interesting in those situations how many students go for a 'teacher' fromted lesson! #ELTchat
10:00 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven @Fuertesun I personally think I quit French because I thought my teacher came unprepared to class #ELTChat
10:00 pm	esolcourses:	RT @cecilialcoelho: @DahlD Agreed... All experiences make us better teachers because we have the ability to learn from them and use that #ELTchat
10:01 pm	Fuertesun:	@Marisa_C helps them be less competitive about learning if they're responsible for the grp learning #ELTChat
10:01 pm	fionamau:	RT @Marisa_C: #ELTchat If you were to begin a new language now, what language would you like to learn? >> me, Portuguese and Arabic
10:01 pm	Marisa_C:	Thank you all for this great conversation! Thanks for participating in the last #ELTchat for 2010. We take a break next week!
10:01 pm	esolcourses:	RT @englishraven: Big question I guess... Should a portion of formal ongoing PD involve learning other languages? #ELTChat [ gets my vote!
10:01 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@DaveDodgson @cgoodey It always depends on the T. I think we should consider Ts here the ones who take it seriously ;-) #ELTchat
10:01 pm	sandymillin:	#eltchat http://bit.ly/gXDUyO < impromptu survey based on our discussion...took me 2 minutes so not complete reliable!
10:01 pm	englishraven:	Gotta go, folks! Kids in the car waiting for me to take 'em to kinder! Just ducked in to help mi mate @Marisa_C :-) #ELTChat
10:01 pm	esolcourses:	RT @Marisa_C: Thank you all for this great conversation! Thanks for participating in the last #ELTchat for 2010. We take a break next week!
10:01 pm	Mbarek:	i learnt French at school but TV taught me how to use it in communication #eltchat
10:01 pm	hoprea:	A merry X-mas to all #ELTChat tweeps! :)
10:01 pm	Fuertesun:	@DaveDodgson YES the power... #ELTchat
10:01 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven That's a good question Jason! I think it can't be mandatory but should be encouraged #ELTChat
10:01 pm	fionamau:	RT @esolcourses: I think it depends on learning style, as well. Love languages, but find grammar a tad dull, tbh :-) ... #eltchat
10:01 pm	cecilialcoelho:	RT @Marisa_C: Thank you all for this great conversation! Thanks for participating in the last #ELTchat for 2010. We take a break next week!
10:02 pm	Marisa_C:	#ELTchat - And many many thanks to all those who chipped in @esolcourses, @ceciliacoelho and my co-moderator @englishraven
10:02 pm	cecilialcoelho:	@englishraven Have a good day Jason! #ELTChat
10:02 pm	DaveDodgson:	RT @hoprea: A merry X-mas to all #ELTChat tweeps! :) Hear hear!
10:02 pm	cgoodey:	@esolcourses @vbenevolofranca Again it comes down 2 every1 being different! Need broad understanding of different ways &preferences #eltchat
10:02 pm	sandymillin:	@cecilialcoelho #eltchat definitely quit one French class as teacher v. bad (& that was b4 my CELTA!), but still learnt French
10:02 pm	DahlD:	RT @DaveDodgson: RT @hoprea: A merry X-mas to all #ELTChat tweeps! :) Hear hear!
10:03 pm	DaveDodgson:	@englishraven Great to have our missing mod back! Have a good 'un #ELTchat
10:03 pm	Mbarek:	@esolcourses Thank you too #ELTchat
10:03 pm	sueleather:	@Marisa_C Thanks Marisa and all #eltchat
10:03 pm	esolcourses:	RT @DaveDodgson: RT @hoprea: A merry X-mas to all #ELTChat tweeps! :) Hear hear! [ thirded! Happy Holidays, everyone!