| 11:28 am |
Marisa_C: |
A short pre-reading before #ELTchat - transcript of interview with Guy Cook http://bit.ly/fRnlVg :-) |
| 11:28 am |
sandymillin: |
@Marisa_C #eltchat What, homework? :) |
| 11:29 am |
Marisa_C: |
@sandymillin what? objectin? #eltchat |
| 11:31 am |
sandymillin: |
@Marisa_C Nope, reading it now like a good girl :) Model student you see! #eltchat |
| 11:32 am |
russell1955: |
RT @Marisa_C: A short pre-reading before #ELTchat - transcript of interview with Guy Cookhttp://bit.ly/fRnlVg :-) |
| 11:36 am |
englishraven: |
RT @Marisa_C: A short pre-reading before #ELTchat - transcript of interview with Guy Cookhttp://bit.ly/fRnlVg :-) |
| 11:38 am |
esolcourses: |
RT @Marisa_C: A short pre-reading before #ELTchat - transcript of interview with Guy Cookhttp://bit.ly/fRnlVg :-) |
| 11:40 am |
BrunoLeys: |
RT @rliberni: UK seeks to raise language entry levels http://t.co/jahxCYL via @guardian #efl #eltchat #elt#edchat #ukedchat #studyenglish #esol |
| 11:41 am |
yassine36: |
Can anyone tell me what #ELTChat is about? thanks! |
| 11:44 am |
englishraven: |
"Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate language learning and how can it be used to best effect?" #ELTChat 15 mins from now :-) |
| 11:45 am |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate language learning and how can it be used to best effect?" #ELTChat 15 mins from now :-) |
| 11:48 am |
janetbianchini: |
Hi all- I'm sorry I won't be able to join in this #ELTchat today. Hope to attend tonight if possible instead. Have a great session all!! :-) |
| 11:48 am |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate language learning and how can it be used to best effect?" #ELTChat 15 mins from now :-) |
| 11:49 am |
annettecopper: |
RT @WarwickLinguist: RT @MangoLanguages: RT @rliberni: UK seeks raise language entryhttp://bit.ly/fl07BV #efl #eltchat #elt #edchat #studyenglish #esol |
| 11:51 am |
hoprea: |
RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate language learning and how can it be used to best effect?" #ELTChat 15 mins from now :-) |
| 11:51 am |
braztesolbsb: |
RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate language learning and how can it be used to best effect?" #ELTChat 15 mins from now :-) |
| 11:56 am |
MartinWarters: |
"Education is the withdrawal from reality in order to develop certain skills" #eltchat. Wow! that could be a topic in itself! |
| 11:56 am |
englishraven: |
@MartinWarters Yep - that line really struck me as well! #ELTChat |
| 11:58 am |
englishraven: |
We're a few minutes from kick-off with #ELTChat today/tonight. Topic is "translation - good for language learning or not?" Please join us! |
| 11:59 am |
Marisa_C: |
RT @MartinWarters: "Education is the withdrawal from reality in order to develop certain skills" #eltchat. > Great quote! Yes! |
| 11:59 am |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate lang learning & how can it be used to best effect?" soon! #eltchat |
| 12:00 pm |
Marisa_C: |
For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:00 pm |
EclipsingX: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @MartinWarters: "Education is the withdrawal from reality in order to develop certain skills" #eltchat. > Great quote! Yes! |
| 12:00 pm |
EclipsingX: |
RT @rliberni: RT @englishraven: "Can translation (and translation tools) facilitate lang learning & how can it be used to best effect?" soon! #eltchat |
| 12:00 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:00 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! <me 2 |
| 12:01 pm |
EclipsingX: |
RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:01 pm |
englishraven: |
Welcome to #ELTChat everyone. I'm moderating tonight with @rliberni @Marisa_C Let's talk TRANSLATION! |
| 12:01 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat I liked Cook's idea that translation is the fifth skill - it was a key part of my lang learning at uni /don't use it in my teaching |
| 12:01 pm |
TyKendall: |
RT @hoprea: RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:01 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
righty-oh. for the next hour my tweets are dedicated to #eltchat |
| 12:01 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @hoprea: RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:02 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat I liked Cook's idea that translation is the fifth skill - it was a key part of my lang learning at uni /don't use it in my teaching |
| 12:02 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Welcome to all in this early edition of #ELTchat - we have changed the time slot to accommodate colleagues from diff time zones |
| 12:02 pm |
rliberni: |
For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
chrisjw133: |
RT @englishraven: We're a few minutes from kick-off with #ELTChat today/tonight. Topic is "translation - good for language learning or not?" Please join us! |
| 12:02 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
antoniaclare: |
Help - do you think I can #ELTChat and write my presentation for next week at the same time? |
| 12:02 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @rliberni: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: Welcome to #ELTChat everyone. I'm moderating tonight with @rliberni @Marisa_C Let's talk TRANSLATION! #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat -> Excellent! Thanks Shaun. |
| 12:02 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat > Wow, thanks Shaun!!! |
| 12:02 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat |
| 12:02 pm |
braztesolbsb: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat |
| 12:03 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @sandymillin: I liked Cook's idea that translation is the 5th skill - it was a key pt of my lang learning at uni #eltchat |
| 12:03 pm |
Marisa_C: |
No time for Cook now so we'll check later #ELTchat |
| 12:03 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @rliberni: RT @sandymillin: I liked Cook's idea that translation is the 5th skill - it was a key pt of my lang learning at uni #eltchat |
| 12:03 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
good afternoon #eltchat. 1pm is very civilized isn't it? |
| 12:03 pm |
rliberni: |
I rarely use translation skills at all now but have done in the past - gr8 for vocab work #eltchat |
| 12:03 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @Marisa_C: Welcome to all in this early edition of #ELTchat - we have changed the time slot to accommodate colleagues from diff time zones |
| 12:04 pm |
Marisa_C: |
I learnt through translation as well but must say it was when I ABANDONED translating that my acquisition took off #ELTchat |
| 12:04 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat And in my own learning, comparing structures is often quite useful - what crosses over between L1 and L2 and what doesn't |
| 12:04 pm |
englishraven: |
@sandymillin 5th skill (in order)? Or alongside the others? If translation is a positive, when/how do we slot it into our approach? #ELTChat |
| 12:04 pm |
EclipsingX: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cooks talk on translation and language learning is here http://bit.ly/dXYNFq #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
What I find amazing is that there is no research to suggest translation is a bad thing yet it is generally ignored #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
computer very slow so I may be lurking more than contributing today #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @Shaunwilden: What I find amazing is that there is no research to suggest translation is a bad thing yet it is generally ignored #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Shaunwilden: What I find amazing is that there is no research to suggest translation is a bad thing yet it is generally ignored #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
antoniaclare: |
I need translation skills all the time (live with an Italian) and it IS a real skill. We should be teaching it #eltchat |
| 12:04 pm |
englishraven: |
Show me a beginner learner who is NOT trying to translate at some stage, and I'll show you ST's new coursebook series... #ELTChat |
| 12:05 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @antoniaclare: I need translation skills all the time (live with an Italian) and it IS a real skill. We should be teaching it #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Shaunwilden It's the effects of the Direct Method still gripping all other later approaches IMOHO #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @englishraven: Show me a beginner learner who is NOT trying to translate at some stage, and I'll show you ST's new coursebook series... #ELTChat |
| 12:05 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat @Marisa_C My acquisition soared when in country, but translation helped (facilitator?) |
| 12:05 pm |
JoshSRound: |
Hi everyone, Having very iffy internet at the mo. Will try to join in if I can #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
I guess its tricky thing for a teacher to manage / use in a multilingual class #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
hoprea: |
As any other tool in the language classroom, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat |
| 12:05 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: Show me a beginner learner who is NOT trying to translate at some stage, and I'll show you ST's new coursebook series... #ELTChat |
| 12:05 pm |
rliberni: |
What struck me last wk on my PD course was the v natural interest in other langs from my NEST teachers - they put me to shame! #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @hoprea: As any other tool in the language classroom, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat |
| 12:05 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
i think it's a general feeling that translation is 'old-fashioned' but it's not #eltchat |
| 12:05 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @hoprea: As other tools in the lang c/room, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat Agreed |
| 12:05 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea @Shaunwilden I think that's an important point. Translation is there, always. But do we bury it or work with it? #ELTChat |
| 12:06 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: @Shaunwilden It's the effects of the Direct Method still gripping all other later approaches IMOHO #eltchat |
| 12:06 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@englishraven @sandymillin Can be great at empowering learners when they're feeling overwhelmed by English speaker at front! #ELTChat |
| 12:06 pm |
michelleworgan: |
Translation can be useful for highlighting specific differences btw L1 and L2, but should we be using it for other things too? #ELTchat |
| 12:06 pm |
ELTchat: |
RT @antoniaclare: I need translation skills all the time (live with an Italian) and it IS a real skill. We should be teaching it #eltchat |
| 12:06 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Shaunwilden: I guess its tricky thing for a teacher to manage / use in a multilingual class #eltchat |
| 12:06 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation can be a gr8 tool for Ss to grasp real meaning of what they're saying |
| 12:06 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @bcnpaul1: i think it's a general feeling that translation is 'old-fashioned' but it's not #eltchat > Or shouldn't be, anyway. |
| 12:06 pm |
rliberni: |
@Shaunwilden this is true which is why it doesn't often feature here #eltchat |
| 12:06 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat @Marisa_C My acquisition soared when in country, but translation helped (facilitator?) |
| 12:06 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat People often think it's problem if NESTs don't speak L1 - teachers not on equal footing at same school ? |
| 12:06 pm |
TyKendall: |
#ELTchat what i remember most about my CertTESOL course is the icy stare i got from lecturers when i told them i actually enjoy translation |
| 12:06 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven @Shaunwilden Most importantly, do we know how to work with it if we choose to? #ELTChat |
| 12:06 pm |
JoshSRound: |
Translation very difficult when faced with 10 multilingual learners #eltchat |
| 12:07 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @hoprea: As other tools in the lang c/room, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat Agreed |
| 12:07 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @JoshSRound: Translation very difficult when faced with 10 multilingual learners #eltchat |
| 12:07 pm |
EclipsingX: |
#eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. Maybe as you know a language more you need it less. |
| 12:07 pm |
englishraven: |
For me (as a SLL) translation is what helped me realise how uniquely different the two systems are, on multiple levels #ELTChat |
| 12:07 pm |
esolcourses: |
think translation is a good thing in general, but with higher level s's, predicting words in context provides more of a challenge #ELTChat |
| 12:07 pm |
michelleworgan: |
Just yesterday a St of mine said he felt much more comfortable doing his homework and using an online translator #ELTchat |
| 12:07 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @JoshSRound: Translation very difficult when faced with 10 multilingual learners #eltchat <sth we can only use in monoling classes? |
| 12:07 pm |
rliberni: |
AS a caveat I do spk other langs but didn't have the same natural instinct - interesting! #eltchat |
| 12:07 pm |
hoprea: |
I guess we can also start by making a distinction between translation used in ESL and EFL. #ELTChat |
| 12:07 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
the lexical approach is a v.big advocate of translation #eltchat |
| 12:07 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@JoshSRound Good point - much easy to exploit in monolingual settings #ELTchat |
| 12:07 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @EclipsingX: #eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. Maybe as you know a language more you need it less. |
| 12:08 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Translation perpetuates the myth that the native English teacher is always best or the NEST perpetuating myth? Chicken or the egg? #ELTchat |
| 12:08 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@bcnpaul1 Another big plus point! #ELTchat |
| 12:08 pm |
michelleworgan: |
Translation can be used in multiling classes as personalised exercise - just can't be checked by Tchr! #ELTchat |
| 12:08 pm |
englishraven: |
@MartinWarters As a TBL-advocate, yes, I found that a bit of a slap too! #ELTChat |
| 12:08 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @bcnpaul1: the lexical approach is a v.big advocate of translation #eltchat |
| 12:08 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat for long time translation was taboo- now even txtbooks encourage L1-L2 activities |
| 12:08 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
nice to mix translation with pronunciation. sentences written in phonemic script #eltchat |
| 12:08 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @bcnpaul1: nice to mix translation with pronunciation. sentences written in phonemic script #eltchat |
| 12:08 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Moacir2: #eltchat for long time translation was taboo- now even txtbooks encourage L1-L2 activities |
| 12:09 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @yearinthelifeof: @JoshSRound Good point - much easy to exploit in monolingual settings #ELTchat But not impossible in Multi |
| 12:09 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @Moacir2: #eltchat for long time translation was taboo- now even txtbooks encourage L1-L2 activities| yes,that's true |
| 12:09 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @englishraven: RT @EclipsingX: #eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. > Esp YL's |
| 12:09 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @hoprea: As other tools in the lang c/room, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat Agreed |
| 12:09 pm |
evelinpj1: |
@hoprea I agree, translation should be used correctly only when it's necessary. But we have 2 use other tools in the classroom #Eltchat |
| 12:09 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @michelleworgan: Translation can be used in multiling classes as personalised exercise - just can't be checked by Tchr! #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:09 pm |
englishraven: |
@Harmerj What's your take on the 'translation in language learning' issue, Jeremy? :-) #ELTChat |
| 12:09 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation however can b used by Ss who find it easier say in L1 and wait for T to translate. |
| 12:09 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @TyKendall: #ELTchat what i remember most about my CertTESOL course is the icy stare i got from lecturers when i told them i actually enjoy translation |
| 12:09 pm |
antoniaclare: |
@sandymillin: #eltchat <sth we can only use in monoling classes? <No, I think it's fine 4 sts to jst use their own translations 4 themselves |
| 12:09 pm |
cerirhiannon: |
#eltchat love the topic - think translation and contrastive analysis REALLY imp teaching tools - but haven't got time to join in :( sorry! |
| 12:09 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @Marisa_C: For the next hour my tweets will be dedicated to discussing translation & its role in ELT on #ELTchat - Please join us! |
| 12:09 pm |
rliberni: |
@michelleworgan interesting this - do we need to be in control - a good way of handing it over #eltchat |
| 12:09 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
Big publishers perpetuate the myth that L1 is bad. WHY? So can sell same coursebook with same set of instructions in every country. #ELTchat |
| 12:09 pm |
elenired: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @englishraven: RT @EclipsingX: #eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. > Esp YL's |
| 12:09 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat I guess that just as some ss are visual learners, etc, some will benefit more than others from translating |
| 12:09 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Marisa_C: #eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. > My YLs always translate back to check |
| 12:10 pm |
michelleworgan: |
YLs above a certain age find it v difficult to understand come concepts without translation #ELTchat |
| 12:10 pm |
hoprea: |
Haven't we been going back and forth with things that were once mainstream, abandoned, and now are coming back? #ELTChat |
| 12:10 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat I guess that just as some ss are visual learners, etc, some will benefit more than others from translating |
| 12:10 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
In the talk of @Harmerj I saw last week he showed an example of a multiling class translating poems it looked effective #ELTChat |
| 12:10 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @TyKendall: #ELTchat what i remember most about my CertTESOL course is the icy stare i got from lecturers when i told them i actually enjoy translation |
| 12:11 pm |
MartinWarters: |
@EclipsingX #eltchat That is interesting point as it opens up the question of teaching grammar or teaching lexical chunks |
| 12:11 pm |
englishraven: |
@yearinthelifeof Unfair generalisation, methinks. Publishers usually write/design according to the 'market' expectations #ELTChat |
| 12:11 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @englishraven: RT @EclipsingX: #eltChat Students also seem to feel secure with some translation of vocabulary items. > Esp YL's |
| 12:11 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Shaunwilden: In the talk of @Harmerj last week he showed an example of a multiling class translating poems it looked effective #ELTChat |
| 12:11 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @michelleworgan: YLs above a certain age find it v difficult to understand come concepts without translation #ELTchat So do adults :-) |
| 12:11 pm |
JoshSRound: |
@michelleworgan: T may spk one or another lang of multilingual sts in class. Is it ok then to help those sts with translation? #ELTchat |
| 12:11 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: @yearinthelifeof Unfair generalisation, methinks. Publishers usually write/design according to the 'market' expectations #ELTChat |
| 12:11 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation can b extremely useful specially in ESP courses. |
| 12:11 pm |
hoprea: |
Perhaps the problem is that many still look at translation from a GT point of view, which takes us back to those boring lessons. #ELTChat |
| 12:11 pm |
evelinpj1: |
@EclipsingX @englishraven And for translation of certain words is better to use pictures, so students can associate the word!. #Eltchat |
| 12:11 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @JoshSRound: @michelleworgan: T may spk one or another lang of multilingual sts in class. Is it ok then to help those sts with translation? #ELTchat |
| 12:11 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Moacir2: #eltchat translation can b extremely useful specially in ESP courses. |
| 12:11 pm |
Harmerj: |
@englishraven as GuyCook said at IH DOS conference, the anti-translation view has nothing 2 back it up. Translation is natural #ELTchat |
| 12:11 pm |
EclipsingX: |
@Marisa_C also for academic learners trying to struggle with difficult vocabulary and concepts #eltchat |
| 12:11 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven as GuyCook said at IH DOS conference, the anti-translation view has nothing 2 back it up. Translation is natural #ELTchat |
| 12:12 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven as GuyCook said at IH DOS conf, anti-translation view has nothing 2 back it up. Translation is natural #ELTchat |
| 12:12 pm |
hoprea: |
@evelinpj1 That's exactly the point! We shouldn't make use of only one tool. Hence the importance of being resourceful. #ELTChat |
| 12:12 pm |
englishraven: |
@Harmerj I agree. I guess the challenge then, is how do we work with it (productively) in the classroom? #ELTChat |
| 12:12 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@hoprea What did decontextualised grammar ever do for us? #ELTchat |
| 12:12 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven GuyCook:anti-translation view has nothing 2 back it up. Translation natural #ELTchat <I do it, even if 'shudn't' |
| 12:12 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @Harmerj: @englishraven GuyCook:anti-translation view has nothing 2 back it up. Translation natural #ELTchat <I do it, even if 'shudn't' |
| 12:12 pm |
Harmerj: |
@englishraven we learn a lot about both L1 & L2 when we translate, and students do have brains so let's use them! #ELTchat |
| 12:12 pm |
ELTchat: |
@TyKendall: #ELTchat on my CertTESOL course is the icy stare i got from lecturers when i told them i actually enjoy translation |
| 12:12 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven we learn a lot about both L1 & L2 when we translate, and students do have brains so let's use them! #ELTchat |
| 12:12 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @EclipsingX: @Marisa_C also for academic learners trying to struggle with difficult vocabulary and concepts #eltchat |
| 12:12 pm |
yassine36: |
@hopera Using translation is still mainstream in the French educational system! #ELTchat |
| 12:13 pm |
rliberni: |
So, do we have any practical uses/ideas to share? #eltchat |
| 12:13 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven we learn a lot about both L1 & L2 when we translate and students do have brains so let's use them! #ELTchat <yep! |
| 12:13 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@Harmerj @englishraven Hear, hear! #ELTChat |
| 12:13 pm |
englishraven: |
No L1 / No translation in the English classroom... Emperors with no clothes then? #ELTChat |
| 12:13 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @Harmerj: @englishraven we learn a lot about both L1 & L2 when we translate, and students do have brains so let's use them! #ELTchat |
| 12:13 pm |
fceblog: |
How do you teach the word "beautiful" without translating? I mean, not giving your subjective idea of it. #ELTchat |
| 12:13 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @yassine36: @hopera Using translation is still mainstream in the French educational system! #ELTchat<think it is in many systems |
| 12:13 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @Harmerj: @englishraven we learn a lot about both L1 & L2 when we translate and students do have brains so let's use them! #ELTchat <yep! |
| 12:13 pm |
michelleworgan: |
You can't always use pictures to illustrate a concept - often translation is much easier, effective and less time consuming #ELTchat |
| 12:13 pm |
hoprea: |
@yearinthelifeof It helped us see it's definitely not the way to go when it comes to learning a language. #ELTChat :) |
| 12:13 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @michelleworgan: You can't always use pictures to illustrate a concept - often translation is much easier, effective and less time consuming #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @fceblog: How do you teach the word "beautiful" without translating? I mean, not giving your subjective idea of it. #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @fceblog: How do you teach the word "beautiful" without translating? (not giving your subjective idea of it) #ELTchat ] with images? |
| 12:14 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @michelleworgan: can't always use pictures to illustrate a concept - often translation is easier, effectiveless time consuming #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
michelleworgan: |
What about teaching translation as a skill in itself, rather than just to explain new language? #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
EclipsingX: |
@evelinpj1 I also agree because sometimes a cultural concept from one language does not transfer to the other #eltchat |
| 12:14 pm |
antoniaclare: |
I translate, I tweet, I'm such a rebel! #eltchat |
| 12:14 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @EclipsingX: @evelinpj1 I also agree because sometimes a cultural concept from one language does not transfer to the other #eltchat |
| 12:14 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @michelleworgan: What about teaching translation as a skill in itself, rather than just to explain new language? #ELTchat > VG point |
| 12:14 pm |
evelinpj1: |
Agree!. RT @rliberni: RT @Moacir2: #eltchat translation can b extremely useful specially in ESP courses. |
| 12:14 pm |
Moacir2: |
@Marisa_C #eltchat agreed. Translation's natural. However, in language acquisition few can be simultaneous interpreters. So... |
| 12:14 pm |
englishraven: |
As a learner, I noticed a sequence (in myself) of translating from words to chunks... #ELTChat |
| 12:14 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @michelleworgan: What about teaching translation as a skill in itself? #ELTchat <many ppl think / expect speakers =translators |
| 12:14 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@hoprea I'm with you on that one :-) #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
Harmerj: |
@Marisa_C poetry-translation I showed last week from @Amandalanguage 's students. Ss translated English poem into their diff langs #ELTchat |
| 12:14 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @englishraven: As a learner, I noticed a sequence (in myself) of translating from words to chunks... #ELTChat |
| 12:15 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @Harmerj: @Marisa_C poetry-translation I showed last week from @Amandalanguage 's students. Ss translated English poem into their diff langs #ELTchat |
| 12:15 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @englishraven: As a learner, I noticed a sequence (in myself) of translating from words to chunks... #ELTChat |
| 12:15 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @englishraven: As a learner, I noticed a sequence (in myself) of translating from words to chunks... #ELTChat ] same here |
| 12:15 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
Do we need to separate translation and the use of L1 in the classroom? #ELTChat esp in e.g. the teachers classroom language |
| 12:15 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
Translation is handy with monolingual groups web can't get meaning lexical item across after attempts: translate! Quick & effective.#ELTchat |
| 12:15 pm |
michelleworgan: |
When I did French at uni we did lots of literary translation - although we weren't actually taught how to do so and I hated it #ELTchat |
| 12:15 pm |
Harmerj: |
RT @yassine36: @Harmerj @englishraven whether I aprove it or not, my students use translation when working in pairs! <exactly #ELTchat |
| 12:15 pm |
rliberni: |
Is translation just a 'short-cut' tool? #eltchat |
| 12:15 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Harmerj: @Marisa_C poetry-translation I showed last week - Ss translated English poem into their diff langs #ELTchat |
| 12:15 pm |
antoniaclare: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Do we need to separate translation and the use of L1 in the classroom? #ELTChat e.g. the teachers classroom language,yes! |
| 12:15 pm |
MartinWarters: |
@Marisa_C @Harmerj @englishraven #Eltchat + you translate the translation back into L1- that is a great cog act. and shows diffs in lang |
| 12:15 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Do we need to separate translation and the use of L1 in the classroom? #ELTChat <yes, but careful about message to SS |
| 12:15 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat so... The automatization of L2 reception+production must b encouraged over translation. |
| 12:16 pm |
JoshSRound: |
Is there a danger of sts becoming dependent on translation, if allowed more freely? #eltchat Still need to insist on using English |
| 12:16 pm |
Harmerj: |
RT @MartinWarters: @Marisa_C @Harmerj @englishraven #Eltchat + you translate the translation back into L1- that is a great cog act. and shows diffs in lang |
| 12:16 pm |
eltworld: |
RT @yearinthelifeof: Big publishers perpetuate the myth that L1 is bad. WHY? So can sell same coursebook with same set of instructions in every country. #ELTchat |
| 12:16 pm |
fceblog: |
@sandymillin There is a difference between translating to cater for a student's need to feel secure and the opportunity to discuss. #ELTchat |
| 12:16 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Harmerj Trans can be used in all sort of lessons and for diff activs - e.g. fixing a bad translation into ENglish is a great actv #ELTchat |
| 12:16 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
@rliberni it is sometimes a shortcut tool, but why is that bad always? #eltchat |
| 12:16 pm |
englishraven: |
Always a fascinating thing in multilingual classes to translate into their L1s, then give 'literal' translations back into English #ELTChat |
| 12:16 pm |
eltworld: |
RT @englishraven: @yearinthelifeof Unfair generalisation, methinks. Publishers usually write/design according to the 'market' expectations #ELTChat |
| 12:16 pm |
rliberni: |
It's 'handy', 'quick', 'shortcut', good with monolingual groups r we being 2 superficial? #eltchat |
| 12:16 pm |
Harmerj: |
RT @Marisa_C: @Harmerj Trans can be used in all sort of lessons and for diff activs - e.g. fixing a bad translation into ENglish is a great actv #ELTchat |
| 12:16 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: Itranslation just a 'short-cut' tool? #eltchat <can be. Diff 2 persuade SS 2 practise explanations (long way) when trans=quick |
| 12:16 pm |
ALiCe__M: |
@michelleworgan Cook said translation is the skill that encompassed all other skills. #ELTchat |
| 12:17 pm |
Moacir2: |
@Marisa_C #eltchat I translation teaching is gr8 discipline. But not all lang learners qualify. |
| 12:17 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @MartinWarters: @Marisa_C @Harmerj @englishraven #Eltchat + you translate the translation back into L1- that is a great cog act. and shows diffs in lang |
| 12:17 pm |
fiandjo: |
#ELTchat I think translation makes you think more about the nuances of meaning versus exact translation and become a better language leaner |
| 12:17 pm |
hoprea: |
Should we also allow for different 'amounts' of translation for receptive and productive skills? #ELTChat |
| 12:17 pm |
Harmerj: |
RT @antoniaclare: It's important that we are encouraging sts to speak Eng rather than banning them from using their L1 < 100%agree #ELTchat |
| 12:17 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat translation is daunting for teachers, Esp Esol/multi-ling group - maybe control issue - it's in hands of student |
| 12:17 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @JoshSRound: Is there a danger of sts becoming dependent on translation, if allowed more freely? #eltchatStill need to insist on using English |
| 12:17 pm |
englishraven: |
Allowing translation (and place for L1) always gets learners engaged, I find (and it's like giving them their bodies back!) #ELTChat |
| 12:17 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @Harmerj: RT @antoniaclare: It's important that we are encouraging sts to speak Eng rather than banning them from using their L1 < 100%agree #ELTchat |
| 12:17 pm |
rliberni: |
@bcnpaul1 not saying it's bad at all - just trying to open the discussion and explore #eltchat |
| 12:17 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Moacir2: #eltchat so... The automatization of L2 reception+production must b encouraged over translation.> this translates into drilling |
| 12:18 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @fiandjo: #ELTchat translation makes you think more about the nuances of meaning vs exact translation and become a better language leaner |
| 12:18 pm |
englishraven: |
Hence, if it engages them, and has them thinking about language, and being themselves - can it be so wrong? #ELTChat |
| 12:18 pm |
evelinpj1: |
@englishraven Yes, there are some difficult concepts that is better to translate to avoid misunderstanding!. #Eltchat |
| 12:18 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Moacir2: @Marisa_C #eltchat I translation teaching is gr8 discipline. But not all lang learners qualify.> agree but is training needed? |
| 12:18 pm |
adhockley: |
#ELTchat Where I live, translation in the classroom is a political statement, so to remain neutral it's easier not to |
| 12:18 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @hoprea: Should we also allow for different 'amounts' of translation for receptive and productive skills? #ELTChat #eltchat |
| 12:18 pm |
sandymillin: |
@fceblog #eltchat I agree (SS need to feel secure / opportunity to discuss) but can b difficult for SS to see difference (trans=always good) |
| 12:18 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @adhockley: #ELTchat Where I live, translation in the classroom is a political statement, so to remain neutral it's easier not to |
| 12:18 pm |
gknightbkk: |
Learners' conversation are much more natural if they think about what they would say in L1 in the context before thinking about L2 #eltchat |
| 12:18 pm |
adhockley: |
#ELTchat Which is not a pedagogical decision but is a genuine classroom one :-) |
| 12:18 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: Always a fascinating thing in multilingual classes to translate into their L1s, then give 'literal' translations back into English #ELTChat |
| 12:18 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: Allowing translation (and place for L1) always gets lrners engaged, I find (like giving them their bodies back!) #eltchat |
| 12:19 pm |
michelleworgan: |
The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in many state schools #ELTchat |
| 12:19 pm |
MartinWarters: |
@bcnpaul1 @rliberni #eltchat Good point esp for explaining abstract nouns. A direct translation here the most suitable? Probably. |
| 12:19 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @rliberni: RT @englishraven: Allowing translation (and place for L1) always gets lrners engaged, I find (like giving them their bodies back!) #eltchat |
| 12:19 pm |
englishraven: |
@adhockley What do you mean by translation being a political statement, Andy? (Intrigued!) #ELTChat |
| 12:19 pm |
hoprea: |
@gknightbkk this is closely related to language and identity, isn't it? #ELTChat |
| 12:19 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat translation is daunting for teachers, Esp Esol/multi-ling group - maybe control issue - it's in hands of student |
| 12:19 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
Rephrasing the idea: Do major publishers perpetuate the idea that L1 is bad? ;-) @Shaunwilden @JoshSRound#ELTchat |
| 12:19 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @Marisa_C: @Harmerj Trans can be used in all sort of lessons and for diff activs - e.g. fixing a bad translation into ENglish is a great actv #ELTchat |
| 12:19 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in many state schools #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:19 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @Harmerj: RT @antoniaclare: yes - this topic is not about use of L1 e.g. for class management but trans as a learning tool #ELTchat |
| 12:19 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in state schools #ELTchat > Right, as with everything else in methods! |
| 12:19 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @rliberni: RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in many state schools #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:19 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: f iegages them, and has them thinking about language, and being themselves -can it be so wrong? #ELTChat <no, but how2 do? |
| 12:20 pm |
adhockley: |
#ELTChat Live in a majority Hungarian city in Romania. Classrooms tend to be mutlilngual - if I use translation in Romanian (which all know) |
| 12:20 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @englishraven: RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in state schools #ELTchat > Right, as with everything else in methods! |
| 12:20 pm |
hoprea: |
Translation of ideas, not words, might be effective in learning. #ELTChat |
| 12:20 pm |
rliberni: |
@michelleworgan this is often to do with methodology also - French taught via English etc.. #eltchat |
| 12:20 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @gknightbkk: Learners' conversation are much more natural if they think about what they would say in L1 in the context before thinking about L2 #eltchat |
| 12:20 pm |
adhockley: |
#ELTChat I'm also making a statement to the Hungarian students which i'd rather not make |
| 12:20 pm |
Marisa_C: |
It seems to me then that a discussion of these issues we are worried about with the Ss is important #ELTchat to strike a balance |
| 12:20 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation in 1-1 classes should b limited to 5% of class(tops). In multilevel groups no more than 20pc. |
| 12:21 pm |
fceblog: |
@esolcourses Which images? #ELTchat To me, a beautiful woman could be Sophia Loren and to my students it could be Lady Gaga. |
| 12:21 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @hoprea: Translation of ideas, not words, might be effective in learning. #ELTChat #eltchat |
| 12:21 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea Yes, as I mentioned, I've noticed a sequence of 'clumsy' (word level) translation to larger phrase-level chunks... #ELTChat |
| 12:21 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @rliberni: RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, as in many state schools #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:21 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@Moacir2 Not sure you can actually put a percentage on it - surely it depends on the stds, situation etc #ELTchat |
| 12:21 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, #ELTchat <def! Many of my SS come from sch w/o being able 2 function in Eng |
| 12:21 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat started discussion here in staffroom! Ss are 'always translating' it's 'reassuring' |
| 12:21 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @EclipsingX #ELTchat I wonder sometimes if we are afraid of translation because we feel excluded from that part of the discussion. |
| 12:21 pm |
lemaistre: |
One prob is overreliance. Japanese ss demand translation for rubrics, texts, examples so lack confidence when no trans there. #eltchat |
| 12:21 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @michelleworgan: The problem is over-reliance on translation, #ELTchat <def! Many of my SS come from sch w/o being able 2 function in Eng |
| 12:21 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat started discussion here in staffroom! Ss are 'always translating' it's 'reassuring' |
| 12:21 pm |
Moacir2: |
"@michelleworgan: agreed. Translation is 1 + tool not the solution to language learning #ELTchat" |
| 12:21 pm |
englishraven: |
Big question then: what does the non-bilingual teacher do in a classroom with translation? There are limits... #ELTChat |
| 12:22 pm |
billpellowe: |
A lot of my students over-rely on web-based translation tools for composition. #eltchat |
| 12:22 pm |
stopspanglish: |
RT @adhockley: #ELTchat Where I live, translation in the classroom is a political statement, so to remain neutral it's easier not to |
| 12:22 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Moacir2: "@michelleworgan: agreed. Translation is 1 + tool not the solution to language learning #ELTchat" |
| 12:22 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
yes, agree - over-reliance on translation can make sts lazy and not 'aquire' the lang #eltchat |
| 12:22 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @lemaistre: One prob is overreliance. Japanese ss demand translation for rubrics, texts, examples so lack confidence when no trans there. #eltchat |
| 12:22 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Moacir2 How have you come up with such precise percentages? #eltchat am intersted |
| 12:22 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @billpellowe: A lot of my students over-rely on web-based translation tools for composition. #eltchat |
| 12:22 pm |
SueannaN: |
I had a wonderful lesson in complete Franglais with a beginner. He WAS trying to translate .#ELTchat |
| 12:22 pm |
fceblog: |
@esolcourses #ELTchat Another thing is to show a picture of something a culture considers beautiful and discuss it. |
| 12:22 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @billpellowe: A lot of my students over-rely on web-based translation tools for composition. #eltchat Many of us have seen that, I think! |
| 12:22 pm |
ELTchat: |
RT @rliberni: RT @rileymike7: #eltchat started discussion here in staffroom! Ss are 'always translating' it's 'reassuring' |
| 12:22 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Moacir2: #eltchat translation in 1-1 classes should b limited to 5% of class(tops). In multilevel groups no more thn 20pc.< v. exact! :) |
| 12:23 pm |
rliberni: |
@billpellowe this is a big problem linguistic and cultural #eltchat |
| 12:23 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @lemaistre: One prob is overreliance. Japanese ss demand translation so lack confidence when no trans there. #eltchat >>Agree |
| 12:23 pm |
yassine36: |
@englishraven what does the non-bilingual teacher do in a classroom with translation? > Learn Students' language !!! #ELTChat |
| 12:23 pm |
englishraven: |
@billpellowe It must be a challenge, to accommodate translation without having it completely take over, become a crutch? #ELTChat |
| 12:23 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @lemaistre: One prob is overreliance. Japanese ss demand translation for rubrics, texts, examples so lack confidence when no trans there. #eltchat |
| 12:23 pm |
michelleworgan: |
Students now use web trans tools instead of dictionaries - more or less effective? What do you think? #ELTchat |
| 12:23 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @yassine36: @englishraven what does the non-bilingual teacher do in a classroom with translation? > Learn Students' language !!! #ELTChat |
| 12:23 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: Big question then: what does the non-bilingual teacher do in a classroom with translation? There are limits... #ELTChat |
| 12:23 pm |
stopspanglish: |
...and what happens if NO one in class speaks that lx? and what if your students have dodgy literacy skills to begin with? #ELTchat |
| 12:23 pm |
Marisa_C: |
I train translators via an onine course and their enhanced LA is amazing #ELTchat but their level is advanced of course |
| 12:23 pm |
Xabitxo: |
RT @esolcourses: RT @fceblog: How do you teach the word "beautiful" without translating? (not giving your subjective idea of it) #ELTchat ] with images? |
| 12:23 pm |
Xabitxo: |
RT @esolcourses: RT @EclipsingX: @evelinpj1 I also agree because sometimes a cultural concept from one language does not transfer to the other #eltchat |
| 12:24 pm |
ALiCe__M: |
@michelleworgan The problem is time, not enough time at school to teach translation dimension, although it is needed and natural #ELTchat |
| 12:24 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @Marisa_C: I train translators via an onine course and their enhanced LA is amazing #ELTchat but their level is advanced of course |
| 12:24 pm |
hoprea: |
Yes, translation to confirm an idea is reassuring. Students are sure they've understood what they had to. #ELTChat |
| 12:24 pm |
fceblog: |
RT @Moacir2 "@michelleworgan: agreed. Translation is 1 + tool not the solution to language learning #ELTchat" ->It's not a taboo either. |
| 12:24 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @hoprea: Yes, translation to confirm an idea is reassuring. Students are sure they've understood what they had to. #ELTChat |
| 12:24 pm |
rliberni: |
Do some 'cultures' want trabslation more than others? Or is it more personal? #eltchat |
| 12:24 pm |
harrisonmike: |
Early #ELTchat? Have fun all, just about off to afternoon classes =) |
| 12:24 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat Comment from adv SS this week "This activity showed me I have 2 think in English, not just translate from Czech like I normally do" |
| 12:24 pm |
rileymike7: |
RT @englishraven: Big question then: what does the non-bilingual teacher do in a classroom with translation? There are limits... #ELTChat |
| 12:24 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
@lemaistre I remeber working in Japan & it was impossible to get 'em to put their electronic translators away #eltchat |
| 12:24 pm |
MartinWarters: |
@yassine36 @englishraven #eltchat Using direct translation!?!? :) |
| 12:24 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @sandymillin: #eltchat Comment from adv SS this week "This activity showed me I have 2 think in English, not just translate from Czech like I normally do" |
| 12:24 pm |
billpellowe: |
The nature of Japanese makes it kind of easy to detect. No personal pronouns so, "It likes skiing" type of sentences are common. #eltchat |
| 12:24 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @bcnpaul1: @lemaistre I remeber working in Japan & it was impossible to get 'em to put their electronic translators away #eltchat |
| 12:24 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @hoprea: Translation of ideas, not words, might be effective in learning. #ELTChat |
| 12:25 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @michelleworgan: Sts use web trans tools instead of dictionaries - more or less effective? #ELTchat >>Both can be dodgy!! |
| 12:25 pm |
esolcourses: |
@fceblog physical beauty is invariably subjective - I'd show them pictures of nature myself. Discussion suggestion is a good one #ELTChat |
| 12:25 pm |
stopspanglish: |
@rliberni : Spanish over-reliance on translation come from 40 yrs of bad direct-translation method. Scary results. #ELTChat |
| 12:25 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @Harmerj: RT @antoniaclare: It's important that we are encouraging sts to speak Eng rather than banning them from using their L1 < 100%agree #ELTchat |
| 12:25 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @stopspanglish: @rliberni : Spanish over-reliance on translation come from 40 yrs of bad direct-translation method. Scary. #ELTChat |
| 12:25 pm |
Marisa_C: |
No wonder the IoL DipTrans exam is one of the toughest to pass!!! #ELTchat |
| 12:25 pm |
englishraven: |
Does appear that certain cultures more keen/reliant on translation than others. Edu background? Distance b/w L1 and L2? #ELTChat |
| 12:25 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @englishraven: Does appear that certain cultures more keen/reliant on translation than others. Edu background? Distance b/w L1 and L2? #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @michelleworgan: Students now use web trans tools instead of dictionaries #ELTchat <less effective - no context, 1 answer only |
| 12:26 pm |
hoprea: |
I tend to think that L1 shouldn't be allowed as much to beginners for different reasons - but lots of things to take into account. #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @englishraven: Does appear that certain cultures more keen/reliant on translation than others. #ELTChat!00% agree |
| 12:26 pm |
datruss: |
@fceblog Use images? #ELTchat |
| 12:26 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@englishraven good Q - how does L1 culture affect attitute to using translation? #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
rliberni: |
One can communicate quite adequately without any language - these tools can be used instead of translation #eltchat |
| 12:26 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@Shaunwilden I often wonder what would have happened if Headway had used L1 instructions / meta-language. Where would we be now? #ELTchat |
| 12:26 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @Marisa_C: @englishraven good Q - how does L1 culture affect attitute to using translation? #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @hoprea: As any other tool in the language classroom, translation has to be used carefully, but it may be useful if used properly. #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
esolcourses: |
@stopspanglish @rliberni think if s's become too reliant on translation, it can slow down their progress #ELTChat |
| 12:26 pm |
fceblog: |
@billpellowe #eltchat Maybe it's a sign those web-based translation tools need to be used and discussed in class. Pros&cons |
| 12:26 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @hoprea: Yes, translation to confirm an idea is reassuring. #ELTChat <but depends on if they have translated 'correctly' |
| 12:27 pm |
billpellowe: |
In my computer-based class, I tried a workshop approach on how to use translation sites as a tool. (Writing L1 to produce L2) #eltchat |
| 12:27 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @yearinthelifeof: @Shaunwilden I often wonder what would have happened if Headway had used L1 instructions / meta-language. Where would we be now? #ELTchat |
| 12:27 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @esolcourses: @stopspanglish @rliberni think if s's become 2 reliant on translation, it cn slow dn their progress #ELTChat I agree |
| 12:27 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat non-bilingual teacher wd have to trust students are using translation tools well,- scary- but can check by monitoring production |
| 12:27 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
@yearinthelifeof Tee hee :-) It did use to encourage translation in its first editions mind :-) #ELTChat |
| 12:27 pm |
yassine36: |
@MartinWarters @englishraven #eltchat Using direct translation!?!? :) > it motivates stds as it shows teacher can do some learning efforts |
| 12:27 pm |
englishraven: |
@billpellowe How did it go? #ELTChat |
| 12:27 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: Do some 'cultures' want trabslation more than others? #eltchat <personal I think. Depends on exposure to other methods |
| 12:27 pm |
hoprea: |
@sandymillin @sandymillin Agreed! That's why teachers should learn how to use translation for learning. :) #ELTChat |
| 12:27 pm |
esolcourses: |
@stopspanglish @rliberni have encountered s's who feel the need to look up every word, & while doing that they miss important stuff #ELTChat |
| 12:28 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @hoprea: Yes, translation to confirm an idea is reassuring. #ELTChat <but depends on if translated 'correctly' |
| 12:28 pm |
EclipsingX: |
@hoprea #ELTchat I am curious about why at lower levels translation should not be allowed:) |
| 12:28 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @yearinthelifeof: @Shaunwilden I often wonder what would have happened if Headway had used L1 instructions / meta-language. Where would we be now? #ELTchat |
| 12:28 pm |
stopspanglish: |
@SueAnnan @michelleworgan - and translation leads Ss to believe that certain (incomprehensible!!!) structures are OK. #ELTChat #eltchat |
| 12:28 pm |
fceblog: |
@datruss #eltchat Who chooses the images to explain "beauty"? The teacher? Who owns the learning? |
| 12:28 pm |
sandymillin: |
@hoprea #eltchat Should learn how to use translation, but how much of language do you have to know too? Asked as multiling NEST! |
| 12:29 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @EclipsingX: @hoprea #ELTchat I'm curious about y at lower levels translation should not be allowed:)Me too, I def need it as a beginner |
| 12:29 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @fceblog: @datruss #eltchat Who chooses the images to explain "beauty"? The teacher? Who owns the learning? ] depends on the level, IMO |
| 12:29 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@stopspanglish Not if you use their bad translation to highlight the differences #ELTchat |
| 12:29 pm |
datruss: |
@fceblog You pick a few as examples, then they have to come up with their own. #eltchat |
| 12:29 pm |
hoprea: |
@EclipsingX Allowing students to use L1 will prevent them from acquiring important features of pronunciation, for instance. #ELTChat |
| 12:29 pm |
englishraven: |
I think one fear (and personally I think it's relevant) is that if you allow lots of translation, it takes over lessons completely. #ELTChat |
| 12:29 pm |
rliberni: |
Some schools actively ban L1 completely #eltchat |
| 12:29 pm |
billpellowe: |
@englishraven #eltchat Pretty good. They summed up in large groups by explaining to each other the various steps they needed to take. |
| 12:29 pm |
JoshSRound: |
if clear, deducing meaning from context an important lang learning skill - this might be missed if translation becomes the norm #eltchat |
| 12:29 pm |
evelinpj1: |
That's true!. RT @daysealbar: RT @hoprea: Translation of ideas, not words, might be effective in learning. #ELTChat |
| 12:30 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @rliberni: Some schools actively ban L1 completely #eltchat| I disagree with this situation - it's not natural |
| 12:30 pm |
ALiCe__M: |
@Marisa_C Well in France translation is baaaaaad practice but the French are not exactly bilingual speakers. #ELTchat |
| 12:30 pm |
englishraven: |
@billpellowe Given your context, I think that's serious progress! #ELTChat |
| 12:30 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @rliberni: Some schools actively ban L1 completely #eltchat > their DOSes still live in the Direct Method era! :-D |
| 12:30 pm |
stopspanglish: |
"I want that you think that she be arriving here..." Ehhhhhhh? And THIS from a Proficiency student! #ELTChat#eltchat |
| 12:30 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @esolcourses: @stopspanglish @rliberni have encountered s's who feel the need to look up every word, & while doing that they miss important stuff #ELTChat |
| 12:30 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@Shaunwilden Fair point, has to be worth an MBE ;-) #ELTchat |
| 12:30 pm |
hoprea: |
@Shaunwilden @EclipsingX I believe that grammar and vocabulary are simpler in the beginning of the course. #ELTChat |
| 12:30 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: I think one fear (and personally I think it's relevant) is that if you allow lots of translation, it takes over lessons completely. #ELTChat |
| 12:30 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: Some schools actively ban L1 completely #eltchat <mine does |
| 12:31 pm |
billpellowe: |
#eltchat I told them that web-based translation sites are not good for their language learning. |
| 12:31 pm |
esolcourses: |
@fceblog @datruss with beginners , teacher usually needs to present ideas - with higher level s's, I'd ask them to bring images in #ELTChat |
| 12:31 pm |
StevenHerder: |
The L1 use is completely context and level based. Somewhere in Intermediate Ss decide they want 100% English #ELTchat |
| 12:31 pm |
rliberni: |
@Shaunwilden had a beginner recently worked out fine with no common language - until her English improved! Amazing speed -necessity #eltchat |
| 12:31 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Could you suggest some activities perhaps? Time to move on! @Harmerj suggesting poems into L1s - any more ideas? time for sharing #ELTchat |
| 12:31 pm |
englishraven: |
One thing I always felt deeply, deeply uncomfortable with was the use of "English Only!" Zones in EFL contexts... #ELTChat |
| 12:31 pm |
evelinpj1: |
I gotta go!. #Eltchat thanks for sharing such a great information!. Have a nice day!. |
| 12:31 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @betsydrager: @englishraven like here in CN-my CN colleagues specialty is translation-have learned much from him in 4 yrs-) #ELTChat |
| 12:32 pm |
englishraven: |
@evelinpj1 Thanks for being with us! :-) #ELTChat |
| 12:32 pm |
SueannaN: |
IN a multilang class, how can the teacher B sure sts are using correct translation.?I have had some funny instances in homework,#ELTchat |
| 12:32 pm |
rliberni: |
@sandymillin heard a story of a blind man thrown out of course 4 spking French to dog! School gave dog Eng lessons!! #eltchat |
| 12:32 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @StevenHerder: Somewhere in Intermediate Ss decide they want 100% English #ELTchat <not necessarily. Many of my SS still need persuading |
| 12:32 pm |
daysealbar: |
#eltchat don't think any of these should be a norm. Ts should use good sense/use trans as LAST resource, when evth else has been tried. |
| 12:32 pm |
billpellowe: |
I show them this baffling translation by a locally-popular online trans. site http://www.flickr.com/photos/b-p/2627199067/ #eltchat |
| 12:32 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@evelinpj1 check out transcript later :-) thx for joining #Eltchat |
| 12:32 pm |
EclipsingX: |
@hoprea #ELTchat or it might encourage them to engage with a word more. I 've tried to move beyond just translation as a student method |
| 12:33 pm |
SueannaN: |
@rliberni That was in Canada and the school had a contract with sts to only speak English #eltchat |
| 12:33 pm |
TyKendall: |
i like translating songs @Marisa_C but more about that tonight! #ELTchat |
| 12:33 pm |
ALiCe__M: |
@englishraven French only zones are no better. Frustration and whispering in English all around with guilty faces #ELTchat |
| 12:33 pm |
englishraven: |
Perhaps one of the reasons translation happens do poorly, is because we've buried it and made it taboo (not harnessed it)? #ELTChat |
| 12:33 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @rliberni: @sandymillin story of a blind man thrown out of course 4 spking French to dog! School gave dog Eng lessons!! #eltchat LOL!! |
| 12:33 pm |
michelleworgan: |
As for activities, how about asking stds to write subtitles in L1 for a tv clip? #ELTchat Never tried it but could be useful for higher lvls |
| 12:33 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @ALiCe__M: @englishraven French only zones are no better. Frustration and whispering in English all around with guilty faces #ELTchat |
| 12:33 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @TyKendall: i like translating songs @Marisa_C but more about that tonight! #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:33 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @michelleworgan: As for activities, how about asking stds to write subtitles in L1 for a tv clip? #ELTchatNever tried it but could be useful for higher lvls |
| 12:33 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
RT @rliberni: @sandymillin heard a story of a blind man thrown out of course 4 spking French to dog! School gave dog Eng lessons!! #eltchat |
| 12:33 pm |
StevenHerder: |
"English Only!" Zones in EFL contexts ARE pretty silly at the wrong level #ELTchat |
| 12:34 pm |
rliberni: |
@JoshSRound yes but it was true - so silly #eltchat |
| 12:34 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @StevenHerder: Somewhere in Intermediate Ss decide they want 100% English #ELTchat<not necessarily. Many of my SS still need persuading |
| 12:34 pm |
Marisa_C: |
The great Mario has a fab activ in a book L1 text with words in L2 every so often #ELTchat - easy to do nowadays |
| 12:34 pm |
BethCagnol: |
:-( ! Missing afternoon #ELTCHAT. Glued to chair with two huge writing deadlines on Friday. |
| 12:34 pm |
BrunoLeys: |
A complete L1 ban can be unnatural. Id opt for a more positive approach. Make students see the purpose of maximum L2 usage #eltchat |
| 12:34 pm |
SueannaN: |
@bethcagnol Hey Beth #ELTCHAT |
| 12:34 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat Scraps of paper: L1 one side, L2 the other. Put in circle. Roll dice, say translation (works for very clear direct equivalents) |
| 12:34 pm |
englishraven: |
@StevenHerder Welcome to #ELTChat Steven - great to have you here. We moved times to cater to Japan (among many other countries) :-) |
| 12:34 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven That's pretty much what I think. We got used to equating translating with mindless repetition and rote learning. #ELTChat |
| 12:34 pm |
barbsaka: |
Just arrived and trying to catch up--what an amazing #ELTChat this has been so far! |
| 12:35 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @BrunoLeys: A complete L1 ban can be unnatural. Id opt for a more positive approach. Make students see the purpose of maximum L2 usage #eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
Agree with @englishraven: esp adult learners, background in lang learning through translation. Can create overeliance in trans. #ELTchat |
| 12:35 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: The great Mario has a fab activ in a book L1 text with words in L2 every so often- easy to do nowadays #eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
billpellowe: |
A few cross-linguistic strategies from my MA thesis http://www2.gol.com/users/billp/thesis/ch5.html #eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
MASHinEFL: |
@sandymillin #ELTchat Of course. When THEY decide it'll be much more successful. My job is to encourage them to try |
| 12:35 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@barbsaka Welcome Barbara and thanks for all the work to spread the word on #ELTChat |
| 12:35 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @billpellowe: A few cross-linguistic strategies from my MA thesishttp://www2.gol.com/users/billp/thesis/ch5.html #eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
rliberni: |
@barbsaka yes, fast and furious! #eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
michelleworgan: |
My adv stdts and I recently read and translated orally a short story from L1 to L2 - they quite enjoyed the change! #ELTchat |
| 12:35 pm |
fceblog: |
@michelleworgan #eltchat Writing subtitles in L1. Hmm. Recognition skills in L2 and production in L1. Which language are we trying to learn? |
| 12:35 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @rliberni: RT @TyKendall: i like translating songs @Marisa_C but more about that tonight! #ELTchat#eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: @barbsaka Welcome Barbara and thanks for all the work to spread the word on #ELTChat#eltchat |
| 12:35 pm |
englishraven: |
@barbsaka Welcome the one and only Barb! Great to have you with us #ELTChat |
| 12:35 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @MASHinEFL: @sandymillin #ELTchat Of course. When THEY decide it'll be much more successful. My job is to encourage them to try <agreed! |
| 12:35 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
@Marisa_C I remember mario doing a translation exercise at IATEFL once oral sentences such "She missed him", was really useful #ELTChat |
| 12:36 pm |
hoprea: |
Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. #ELTChat |
| 12:36 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. #ELTChat |
| 12:36 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Translating songs into new rhymes a very precise discipline #ELTchat but fun! |
| 12:36 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. Very true! #eltchat |
| 12:36 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @rliberni: RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. Very true! #eltchat |
| 12:36 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea Right, so how do we set limits, create pathways, to bring translation in from such a long cold? #ELTChat |
| 12:36 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
@BrunoLeys Agree - no banning! Encouraging use as much L2 as possible! #ELTchat |
| 12:36 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @fceblog: @michelleworgan #eltchat Writing subtitles in L1. Which language trying to learn? <depends on if teaching recep / prod skills |
| 12:36 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@fceblog We didn't say what the objective of trans type activities was - it can be used for diff reasons from L1 - 2 or L2 - 1 #ELTchat |
| 12:37 pm |
MASHinEFL: |
@englishraven #ELTChat Cheers! I had a meeting re-scheduled luckily |
| 12:37 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. #ELTChat |
| 12:37 pm |
efl101: |
re. activities - like getting sts to translate L1 newspaper stories into L2 in summary and then present - works in reverse too #ELTchat |
| 12:37 pm |
fceblog: |
#eltchat How about having the student choose wikipedia page in their L1, throw the link in Googletranslate, then improve the results? |
| 12:37 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Drama activ: Ss act out scene in L1 then watch it in L2 - great for cultural and paraling ftres awareness #ELTchat |
| 12:37 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven Well, I guess the very first thing is trying to look at it from a fresher perspective. #ELTChat |
| 12:37 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
aaaarggh! Trying really hard to follow #eltchat but it's impossible with this computer - I'll have to read the tapescript. :( |
| 12:37 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @vbenevolofranca: @BrunoLeys Agree - no banning! Encouraging use as much L2 as possible! #ELTchat |
| 12:37 pm |
daysealbar: |
RT @rliberni: RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. Very true! #eltchat |
| 12:37 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @hoprea: Well, I guess the very first thing is trying to look at it from a fresher perspective. #ELTChat > agree! |
| 12:37 pm |
efl101: |
RT @Marisa_C: Drama activ: Ss act out scene in L1 then watch it in L2 - great for cultural and paraling ftres awareness #ELTchat |
| 12:38 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@MASHinEFL Welcome ! #ELTChat |
| 12:38 pm |
gknightbkk: |
Learners want to map ideas in L1 and make sure they have L2 vocab and structures before attempting interactional task #eltchat |
| 12:38 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@fceblog Yes, having students improve bad automatic translations can be useful! Like it! #ELTchat |
| 12:38 pm |
bcnpaul1: |
did I really say tapescript!? I meant transcript #eltchat |
| 12:38 pm |
StevenHerder: |
@MASHinEFL #ELTChat Yikes, meeting starting now. Next time, everyone. Looks like a great bunch! |
| 12:38 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: Translating songs into new rhymes a very precise discipline #ELTchat but fun! |
| 12:38 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat not tried it but maybe dubbing film-clips for higher levels |
| 12:38 pm |
fceblog: |
@Marisa_C Very interesting #eltchat |
| 12:39 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @englishraven: @hoprea how do we set limits..2 bring translation in from such a long cold? #ELTChat Do what we always do, train &show:-) |
| 12:39 pm |
yassine36: |
Students need to move from L1 to L2 in real world. Classroom is the best place to start the process smoothly #ELTChat |
| 12:39 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
@sandymillin @StevenHerder #ELTchat This is really the case in monolingual groups: switching to L1 can be so easy at Intermediate level. |
| 12:39 pm |
hoprea: |
If we answer in L2 to students' remark in L1, they sometimes naturally end up using L2 later on, and conv may flow more naturally. #ELTChat |
| 12:39 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @efl101: re. activities - like getting sts to translate L1 newspaper stories into L2 in summary and then present - works in reverse too #ELTchat |
| 12:39 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: Drama activ: Ss act out scene in L1 then watch it in L2 - great for cultural and paraling ftres awareness #ELTchat |
| 12:39 pm |
englishraven: |
Remember when drills were in, then out, then in again (in context/moderation)? Perhaps something similar for translation? #ELTChat |
| 12:39 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@StevenHerder recently watched the Paul Nation interview L1>L2 trans also helps vocab aquisition - not sure of research tho #ELTChat |
| 12:39 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @Marisa_C: @StevenHerder recently watched the Paul Nation interview L1>L2 trans also helps vocab aquisition - not sure of research tho #ELTChat |
| 12:39 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @englishraven: @hoprea how do we set limits..2 bring translation in from such a long cold? #ELTChat Do what we always do, train &show:-) |
| 12:39 pm |
daysealbar: |
@vbenevolofranca Yes, using positive reinforcement always. transl as last resource always as a eliciting via English approach. #ELTchat |
| 12:40 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven Yup! That's the very same thing I've been thinking about. #ELTChat |
| 12:40 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @hoprea: If we answer in L2 to students' remark in L1... #ELTChat <yes, but can be lazy to speak L1 if they know u understand |
| 12:40 pm |
yassine36: |
@vbenevolofranca @sandymillin @StevenHerder #ELTchat switching to L1 can be so easy at Intermediate level > I agree |
| 12:40 pm |
fceblog: |
@michelleworgan #eltchat With Wikipedia articles, it's easy to find something local not developed yet in En. It could be a real task! |
| 12:40 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Drama activ cont: Then they act out same scene in L2 #ELTchat - sorry cldn't describe in 140 |
| 12:40 pm |
rliberni: |
@englishraven that's the problem with new fads they throw all the others out until the nxt comes along! #eltchat |
| 12:40 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea Right - good point. The bilingual teacher who listens in L1 and responds in L2. It does actually work well. #ELTChat |
| 12:40 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: @hoprea Right - good point. The bilingual teacher who listens in L1 and responds in L2. It does actually work well. #ELTChat |
| 12:40 pm |
datruss: |
@fceblog Another option, you provide non-examples & they have to come up with examples. #eltchat |
| 12:41 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @fceblog: @michelleworgan #eltchat With Wikipedia articles, it's easy to find sth local not developed yet in En. It could be a real task! |
| 12:41 pm |
efl101: |
If translation is regular and directed part of lessons then often over L1 use diminishes naturally (anecdotal evidence only ;-)) #ELTchat |
| 12:41 pm |
englishraven: |
@rliberni I agree. I'm up for reconsidering translation, but want to avoid babies with bathwater and all that... #ELTChat |
| 12:41 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
RT @englishraven: @hoprea Right - good point. The bilingual teacher who listens in L1 and responds in L2. It does actually work well. #ELTChat |
| 12:41 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @efl101: If translation is regular and directed part of lessons then often over L1 use diminishes naturally (anecdotal evidence only ;-)) #ELTchat |
| 12:41 pm |
MartinWarters: |
RT @rliberni: @englishraven that's the problem with new fads they throw all the others out until the nxt comes along! #eltchat |
| 12:42 pm |
rliberni: |
@englishraven quite right but a little of what you fancy does you no harm at all!! Lol #eltchat |
| 12:42 pm |
hoprea: |
L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
englishraven: |
@efl101 Right, so give translation and L1 clearly defined places and roles (and value)? #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
SueannaN: |
@rliberni @englishraven Horses for course? #eltchat |
| 12:42 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @englishraven: @rliberni I agree. I'm up for reconsidering translation, but want to avoid babies with bathwater and all that... #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
fceblog: |
@hoprea #eltchat Exactly. That's the difference between methods and techniques. |
| 12:42 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@cybraryman1 Jerry, time to build a translation page ? http://bit.ly/ep1VQS #ELTchat |
| 12:42 pm |
efl101: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #ELTChat |
| 12:42 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@hoprea Yes, sometimes the only input material avialble is in L1 for local news #ELTchat |
| 12:42 pm |
BrunoLeys: |
Limits are just where it doesn't facilitate learning. Use L1 only when it is the best tool. Not for the sake of using it. #ELTChat |
| 12:43 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #eltchat |
| 12:43 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #eltchat |
| 12:43 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @hoprea: L1 can also be used for input or conversation trigger. For instance, a newspaper article in L1, but dicussion in L2. #ELTChat |
| 12:43 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat for business lessons replicating real situations useful, eg, getting ss to explain menu, news headlines, signs, etc., |
| 12:43 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@englishraven Rephrased the question - Do major publishers perpetuate the idea that L1 is bad? Do they create market expectations? #ELTchat |
| 12:43 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat for business lessons replicating real situations useful, eg, getting ss to explain menu, news headlines, signs, etc., |
| 12:43 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @rliberni RT @Marisa_C: Translating songs into new rhymes a very precise discipline #ELTchat but fun! |
| 12:43 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @BrunoLeys: Limits are just where it doesn't facilitate learning. Use L1 when it is the best tool. Not 4 the sake of using it. #eltchat |
| 12:43 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
@hoprea @englishraven #ELTChat Agree 100% Finding right balance during lesson & depends on whether receptive/ productive activity. #ELTchat |
| 12:44 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Translation great for practising reported speech as it should be practised - e,g, news articles in L1 #ELTchat |
| 12:44 pm |
englishraven: |
@SueAnnan Or parts of courses for parts of horses perhaps... (not a real great image there - sorry!) #ELTChat |
| 12:44 pm |
billpellowe: |
Students can demonstrate understanding of different meanings of identical forms by using L1. #eltchat |
| 12:44 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@englishraven All points of view are valuable! #ELTchat |
| 12:44 pm |
SueannaN: |
@englishraven LOL i know what you mean #ELTChat |
| 12:44 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @billpellowe: Students can demonstrate understanding of different meanings of identical forms by using L1. #eltchat |
| 12:44 pm |
hoprea: |
RT @Marisa_C: Translation great for practising reported speech as it should be practised - e,g, news articles in L1 #ELTchat |
| 12:44 pm |
billpellowe: |
For example, the 's in He's tall, Let's go, Paul's car, He's called twice #eltchat |
| 12:45 pm |
michelleworgan: |
One activity - find a badly translated menu (they are everywhere!) and get stds to improve it - mostly food vocab but a real task #ELTchat |
| 12:45 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea Mr Oprea. I really think you should so a blog post about this. Your ideas for using translation are excellent. #ELTChat |
| 12:45 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Ss can build list of troublesome false cognates #ELTchat - certainly useful for Greek learners |
| 12:45 pm |
efl101: |
@englishraven yep helps if place is 'natural' e.g news on L2 country in L1 paper i.e. what is one country's view of another etc. #eltchat |
| 12:45 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @michelleworgan: One activity - find a badly translated menu (they are everywhere!) and get stds to improve it - mostly food vocab but a real task #ELTchat |
| 12:45 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Marisa_C: Ss can build list of troublesome false cognates #ELTchat - certainly useful for Greek learners <for all learners, I think |
| 12:45 pm |
rliberni: |
@rileymike7 interetsing topic the role of publishers in this but they must have reacted initially to sthing? #eltchat |
| 12:45 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @efl101: @englishraven yep helps if place is 'natural' e.g news on L2 country in L1 paper i.e. what is one country's view of another etc. #eltchat |
| 12:45 pm |
daysealbar: |
@rliberni True! All the methods are viable. Ts should adjust them for effective learning considering sts learning styles #ELTchat |
| 12:45 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @Marisa_C: Ss can build list of troublesome false cognates #ELTchat - certainly useful for Greek learners> and most of my Eropean sts |
| 12:45 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @billpellowe: Students can demonstrate understanding of different meanings of identical forms by using L1. #eltchat |
| 12:46 pm |
nickkiley: |
#ELTChat Sorry if said b4 (just arrived), but is this an issue of learner trainer, given large amount of translators, Google domination etc |
| 12:46 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @englishraven: @hoprea Mr Oprea. I really think you should so a blog post about this. Your ideas for using translation are excellent. #ELTChat |
| 12:46 pm |
englishraven: |
@efl101 Great, I LOVE that! There are so many places/situations where translation is NATURAL! Find 'em and use 'em! #ELTChat |
| 12:46 pm |
sandymillin: |
#eltchat Publishers: in my experience, books 2 be sold internationally = no translation, books for local market = almost all translation |
| 12:46 pm |
michelleworgan: |
You don't find many ELT tchrs resource or handbooks on translation #ELTchat |
| 12:46 pm |
rileymike7: |
?@michelleworgan: find a badly translated menu and get stds to improve it - mostly food vocab but a real task #ELTchat - - works a treat |
| 12:46 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@sandymillin Badly translated menus are great fun! Best item seen so far "Drunkard's tidbits" for some Greek meat dish :-D #ELTchat |
| 12:46 pm |
rliberni: |
@Marisa_C yes knowing diffs good for re-inforcement #eltchat |
| 12:46 pm |
billpellowe: |
@Marisa_C @hoprea A Japanese teacher at my school tried the opposite: Read articles from Newsweek, etc in L2, discuss in L1 #eltchat |
| 12:46 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven Thanks for the encouragement. I guess I really will and hope there are lots of comments to enlighten the discussion. #ELTChat |
| 12:46 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: @efl101 Great, I LOVE that! There are so many places/situations where translation is NATURAL! Find 'em and use 'em! #ELTChat |
| 12:46 pm |
fceblog: |
@efl101 #eltchat You mean, demystifying translation in class reduces the need to translate? That's interesting. |
| 12:46 pm |
BrunoLeys: |
@rliberni @hoprea Sounds purposeful. Bring the Ss' world into the classroom and start dealing with emergent L2 language. #eltchat |
| 12:47 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@michelleworgan The market dictates ;-) #ELTchat |
| 12:47 pm |
agfigueiredo: |
RT @vbenevolofranca: Translation is handy with monolingual groups web can't get meaning lexical item across after attempts: translate! Quick & effective.#ELTchat |
| 12:47 pm |
englishraven: |
@nickkiley I would agree with that. Good, appropriate, beneficial use of translation could be a matter of learner training. #ELTChat |
| 12:47 pm |
sandymillin: |
@Marisa_C #eltchat "Baby coffins with whipped cream" :) Actually pretty tasty! |
| 12:47 pm |
rliberni: |
@sandymillin there are some great sites for badly written signage around #eltchat |
| 12:47 pm |
slister: |
really enjoying lurking on the #ELTchat amongst language teachers concerning translating in the classroom (right now!) |
| 12:47 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @michelleworgan: You don't find many ELT tchrs resource or handbooks on translation #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:47 pm |
chucksandy: |
how about having students "rehearse" what they wish to say in L1 before doing a task in L2 to increase output/fluency? Works for me #eltchat |
| 12:47 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@yearinthelifeof Yes, I'm sure there were plenty of trans books published 50 years ago! #ELTchat |
| 12:47 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @rliberni: RT @michelleworgan: You don't find many ELT tchrs resource or handbooks on translation #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @chucksandy: how about having students "rehearse" what they wish to say in L1 before doing a task in L2 to increase output/fluency? Works for me #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @chucksandy: how about having students "rehearse" what they wish to say in L1 before doing a task in L2 to increase output/fluency? Works for me #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
efl101: |
correcting mis-translations can be fun too! (and profitable if sts sell corrected version!) #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @chucksandy: how about having students "rehearse" what they wish to say in L1 b4 doing a task in L2 to increase output/fluency #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
@rliberni @rileymike7 But wonder if we need to include this in books at all!Isn't translation something which arises as lessons go?#eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: @efl101 Great, I LOVE that! There are so many places/sits where translation is NATURAL! Find 'em & use 'em! #eltchat |
| 12:48 pm |
englishraven: |
@hoprea Not so sure about explicit 'taught' training - perhaps more in the way of suggestions, ideas? #ELTChat |
| 12:48 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: @sandymillin there are some great sites for badly written signage around #eltchat <and some in the #eltpics 'signs' album |
| 12:49 pm |
hoprea: |
@billpellowe @Marisa_C That's also a good idea. It helps teachers see whether students really understood what they read. #ELTChat |
| 12:49 pm |
rliberni: |
@slister happy to have you lurk! Welcome #eltchat |
| 12:49 pm |
esolcourses: |
RT @Marisa_C: @sandymillin Badly translated menus are great fun! Best seen so far "Drunkard's tidbits" for some Greek meat dish :-D #ELTchat |
| 12:49 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @chucksandy: ss "rehearse" what they wish to say in L1 before doing a task in L2 to increase output/fluency? #eltchat > Happens anyway? |
| 12:49 pm |
efl101: |
apocryphal I think but Lenin learnt Eng by reverse translating War and Peace (a bloke told me once) #eltchat |
| 12:49 pm |
englishraven: |
@chucksandy Yes, know what you mean. It's like creating a mental road map (prepping in L1 before using L2). #ELTChat |
| 12:50 pm |
hoprea: |
@englishraven Nicely put, Jason! I believe suggestions are more effective. Strategies are different for each person. #ELTChat |
| 12:50 pm |
billpellowe: |
@nickkiley I think you're right #eltchat |
| 12:50 pm |
englishraven: |
@nickkiley @chucksandy Yes, happens anyway, but current classroom approaches frown on it or try to bury it... #ELTChat |
| 12:50 pm |
BrunoLeys: |
Translating is also a skill in itself (e.g. interpreters), but quite a difficult one and therefore not the purpose of ELT #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:50 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @englishraven: @chucksandy It's like creating a mental road map (prepping in L1 before using L2). #ELTChat Agree with idea of mental map |
| 12:51 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @englishraven: @nickkiley @chucksandy Yes, happens anyway, but current classroom approaches frown on it or try to bury it #ELTChat Indeed |
| 12:51 pm |
JoshSRound: |
@englishraven: @chucksandy Think I still prefer a mental road map in L2? Do prod activity twice, output improves 2nd time round... #ELTChat |
| 12:51 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @BrunoLeys: Translating is also a skill in itself =quite a difficult one ¬ the purpose of ELT #ELTchat<depends on context. Might be |
| 12:51 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @JoshSRound: @englishraven: @chucksandy Think I still prefer a mental road map in L2? Do prod activity twice, output improves 2nd time round... #ELTChat |
| 12:51 pm |
englishraven: |
@JoshSRound I think level is important here, too. #ELTChat |
| 12:51 pm |
michelleworgan: |
Really it all depends on our purposes - are we using trans to check comprehension, to compare systems and use, as a skill? #ELTchat |
| 12:52 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @michelleworgan: Really it all depends on our purposes - are we using trans to check comprehension, to compare systems and use, as a skill? #ELTchat |
| 12:52 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @englishraven: @JoshSRound I think level is important here, too. #ELTChat Yeah, absolutely. Could affect all sorts of considerations |
| 12:52 pm |
billpellowe: |
RT @michelleworgan: Really it all depends on our purposes - are we using trans to check comprehension, to compare systems and use, as a skill? #ELTchat |
| 12:52 pm |
JoshSRound: |
@englishraven True, depends on level #eltchat |
| 12:52 pm |
hoprea: |
What of the new voice translation software that Google and other companies have been advertising? Will they kill ELT? #ELTChat |
| 12:52 pm |
barbsaka: |
RT @englishraven: @hoprea I really think you should so a blog post about this. Your ideas for using translation are excellent. #ELTChat |
| 12:52 pm |
daysealbar: |
@hoprea @englishraven Agreed! Suggestions, not norms! Strategies, not rules. #ELTChat |
| 12:53 pm |
englishraven: |
@michelleworgan Right. At lower levels, trans. is like a coping device. At higher levels, it needs to be more about an art/skill? #ELTChat |
| 12:53 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: @michelleworgan Right. At lower levels, trans. is like a coping device. At higher levels, it needs to be more about an art/skill? #ELTChat |
| 12:53 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @hoprea: What of the new voice translation software that Google and other companies have been advertising? Will they kill ELT? #eltchat |
| 12:53 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @englishraven: @michelleworgan Right. At lower levels, trans. is like a coping device. At higher levels, it needs to be more about an art/skill? #ELTChat |
| 12:53 pm |
rliberni: |
@hoprea don't think so ppl still need to perf in English but it may have an effect for passive skills #eltchat |
| 12:53 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @nickkiley: @hoprea My Ss asked me that re voice translation killing ELT. It would have to improve a lot, though... #ELTChat |
| 12:53 pm |
agfigueiredo: |
RT @michelleworgan: Really it all depends on our purposes - are we using trans to check comprehension, to compare systems and use, as a skill? #ELTchat |
| 12:54 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: @hoprea don't think so ppl still need to perf in English but it may have an effect for passive skills #eltchat |
| 12:54 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @englishraven: @michelleworgan Right. At lower levels, trans. is like a coping device. At higher levels, it needs to be more about an art/skill? #ELTChat |
| 12:54 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @nickkiley: RT @nickkiley: @hoprea e voice translation killing ELT. It would have to improve a lot, though... #ELTChat & inc pragmatics |
| 12:55 pm |
ddeubel: |
Good morning. Has anyone used google's superb translate chat? I have when corresponding with Ss but not in lessons. #eltchat |
| 12:55 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @ddeubel: Good morning. Has anyone used google's superb translate chat? I have when corresponding with Ss but not in lessons. #eltchat |
| 12:55 pm |
englishraven: |
I know one thing. (more) acceptance of translation (and better use of it) would give the bilingual teacher a much-needed boost! #ELTChat |
| 12:55 pm |
CliveSir: |
My Mega Pile of Ed Blogs Updated - 633 blogs! http://bit.ly/eSCn9J #edchat #ukedchat #eltchat #cpchat#ntchat |
| 12:55 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @englishraven: I know one thing. (more) acceptance of translation (and better use of it) would give the bilingual teacher a much-needed boost! #ELTChat |
| 12:55 pm |
englishraven: |
@ddeubel How well does it work? #ELTChat |
| 12:56 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @ddeubel: Good morning. Has anyone used google's superb translate chat? I have when corresponding with Ss but not in lessons. #eltchat |
| 12:56 pm |
hoprea: |
@rliberni @nickkiley They say it may be working in the (very) near future. But I guess it'll only work for basic conv initially. #ELTChat |
| 12:56 pm |
rliberni: |
@vbenevolofranca I agree it is incidental at the moment but could it be more than this? #eltchat |
| 12:56 pm |
englishraven: |
What about coursebooks? Should we be asking publishers to cater more to the idea/role of translation skills? #ELTChat |
| 12:56 pm |
SueannaN: |
@englishraven I had a bit of a nightmare with Google Translate #ELTChat |
| 12:56 pm |
chucksandy: |
<in a business meeting but following along. great chat!> #eltchat |
| 12:56 pm |
BrunoLeys: |
I believe we have to watch out for the "translation reflex". Whenever Ss see a L2 word they want to know the L1 equivalent #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:57 pm |
pelekas: |
The trouble is teachers in the Japanese context tend to over use translation. This is often at the expense of fluency #eltchat |
| 12:57 pm |
esolcourses: |
Failblog ( possibly NSFW! ) is a good site for finding funny mis-translations that students can correcthttp://bit.ly/bnvCZs #ELTChat |
| 12:57 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
@rliberni @hoprea #eltchat Yes, don't think trans tools will kill ELT. Had a try with diff text genres: difficulty with metaphorical lang. |
| 12:57 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@SueAnnan Umberto Eco has a great text in "Experiences of Translation" or looking at an Altavista translation #ELTChat |
| 12:57 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
RT @pelekas: The trouble is teachers in the Japanese context tend to over use translation. #eltchat The same is true in the Czech context |
| 12:57 pm |
sandymillin: |
@englishraven: asking publishers 2 cater more 2 idea/role of trans skills? #ELTChat <how? Incorporated in old series or separate strands? |
| 12:58 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @Marisa_C: @SueAnnan Umberto Eco has a great text in "Experiences of Translation" or looking at an Altavista translation #ELTChat> thanks |
| 12:58 pm |
billpellowe: |
This was fun. #eltchat |
| 12:58 pm |
englishraven: |
@pelekas Not just there. Key to the issue of giving translation a better gig is sorting out how/when/why, I think. #ELTChat |
| 12:58 pm |
rliberni: |
I use google translate with prospec stds emails it can be very very misleading - I usually get a real 2nd opinion #eltchat |
| 12:58 pm |
antoniaclare: |
@englishraven - don't think this is really the role of ELT coursebooks(tch translation skills) -sts go to university to study this #eltchat |
| 12:58 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @pelekas: The trouble is teachers in the Japanese context tend to over use translation. This is often at the expense of fluency #eltchat |
| 12:58 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @BrunoLeys: I believe we have to watch out for the "translation reflex". Whenever Ss see a L2 word they want to know the L1 equivalent #ELTchat #eltchat |
| 12:58 pm |
agfigueiredo: |
RT @englishraven: I know one thing. (more) acceptance of translation (and better use of it) would give the bilingual teacher a much-needed boost! #ELTChat |
| 12:58 pm |
BethCagnol: |
Doh! My fave topic got 2nd place. And I'm stuck w/ deadlines. I'll read the transcript for sure! #ELTCHAT Hope to chat music and ELT 2nite! |
| 12:58 pm |
BArcher001: |
RT @esolcourses: Failblog ( possibly NSFW! ) is a good site for finding funny mis-translations that students can correct http://bit.ly/bnvCZs #ELTChat |
| 12:58 pm |
michelleworgan: |
@englishraven Not necessarily-however the use of long-winded definitions of phrasal vbs could be reduced - trans can be tchs option #ELTchat |
| 12:58 pm |
BethCagnol: |
RT @SueannaN: @englishraven I had a bit of a nightmare with Google Translate #ELTChat |
| 12:59 pm |
rliberni: |
@vbenevolofranca it's very exciting though! The new developments with translation tools #eltchat |
| 12:59 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Shaunwilden: RT @pelekas: The trouble is teachers in the Japan overuse translation. #eltchat & in Czech context <& many others. |
| 12:59 pm |
englishraven: |
@antoniaclare I disagree. I think there should be dedicated sections in a coursebook for learners to translate (for real purposes) #ELTChat |
| 12:59 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
RT @Marisa_C: @SueAnnan Umberto Eco has a great text in "Experiences of Translation" or looking at an Altavista translation #ELTChat |
| 12:59 pm |
ddeubel: |
Ss love this too for translation. http://bit.ly/epLFyY #eltchat |
| 12:59 pm |
Marisa_C: |
We are about to finish - last time @Sandymillin wrote up a great summary of the chat - may I ask for a different volunteer today? #ELTchat |
| 12:59 pm |
adhockley: |
Thanks to everyone at #ELTchat Enjoyed reading the conversation, and apologies for lurking more than contributing. |
| 1:00 pm |
barbsaka: |
What a blast! Way to go Asia--really enjoyed following along with #ELTChat! See you next week :-) |
| 1:00 pm |
fceblog: |
@englishraven #eltchat At higher levels, translation is a good awareness trigger. I'd say contrastive analysis. Art is too much, you know. |
| 1:00 pm |
rliberni: |
@englishraven nice idea - tho we have to remember that translation is itself a very difficult skill #eltchat |
| 1:00 pm |
nickkiley: |
#ELTChat Could translation be death of mono-lingual NESTs? |
| 1:00 pm |
michelleworgan: |
RT @fceblog: @englishraven #eltchat At higher levels, translation is a good awareness trigger. I'd say contrastive analysis. Art is too much |
| 1:00 pm |
englishraven: |
@antoniaclare For example: Listen to the man (speaking in English). Translate for your boss (in your own country). #ELTChat |
| 1:00 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @ddeubel: Ss love this too for translation. http://bit.ly/epLFyY #eltchat |
| 1:00 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
@Marisa_C I can do it if noone else wants to #ELTChat |
| 1:00 pm |
SueannaN: |
@englishraven There are in Straightforward series at all levels #ELTChat |
| 1:00 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Marisa_C: We are about to finish - last time @Sandymillin wrote up a great summary of the chat - different volunteer today? #ELTchat ;) |
| 1:01 pm |
antoniaclare: |
Yes, thanks to all. Got called away by phonecall from Hungary, but great to take part. I'll be back 4 more soon. thanks #ELTchat |
| 1:01 pm |
ddeubel: |
@Marisa_C @pelekas I agree - that's the slippery slope, misuse because it facilitates communication but little learning at times. #eltchat |
| 1:01 pm |
rliberni: |
Got to dash - great moderators in @maris_c and @englishraven today - thanks what a gr8 discussion! #eltchat |
| 1:01 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @englishraven: @antoniaclare Listen to the man (speaking in English). Translate for your boss (in your own country). #ELTChat> Nice |
| 1:01 pm |
billpellowe: |
Ever hear of Reciprocal Data Driven Learning (DDL) materials (Johns, 1996)? #eltchat |
| 1:01 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Shaunwilden Thanks Shaun I would love you to do it and put it up on your blog - will send you link to transcript asap #ELTChat |
| 1:02 pm |
Shaunwilden: |
@Marisa_C Cool will give me sth to do on the coach home this evening :-) Is tonights chat the same time as always? #ELTChat |
| 1:02 pm |
chucksandy: |
RT @englishraven: @antoniaclare I disagree. I think there should be dedicated sections in a coursebook for learners to translate (for real purposes) #ELTChat |
| 1:02 pm |
BethCagnol: |
@SueAnnan Has anyone suggested alternatives to written homework during this #ELTCHAT (Google translate has been an issue for me). |
| 1:02 pm |
antoniaclare: |
@englishraven - yes, I agree some translation good idea. Sorry was talking about skills in general. #eltchat |
| 1:02 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Shaunwilden Yes, same time for tonight's chat as always 9pm. London time #ELTChat |
| 1:02 pm |
englishraven: |
@rliberni Absolutely. But I think we can start simple/practical and in moderation... #ELTChat |
| 1:02 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @rliberni: Got to dash - great moderators in @maris_c and @englishraven today - thanks what a gr8 discussion! #eltchat> Agreed on both |
| 1:02 pm |
billpellowe: |
DDL uses parallel corpus excerpts to compare specific meanings/usages. Example: use Disneyland brochures side-by-side. #eltchat |
| 1:03 pm |
englishraven: |
@antoniaclare Yep, see (and agree with your point). :-) #ELTChat |
| 1:03 pm |
hoprea: |
Many thanks to all #ELTChat folks for a lot of food for thought this morning. :) |
| 1:03 pm |
SueannaN: |
@bethcagnol I know it's a nightmare #ELTCHAT |
| 1:03 pm |
sandymillin: |
@SueAnnan written homework #ELTCHAT (Google translate = issue for me)<ask SS to translate back into L1 & compare 2 versions! Often surprised |
| 1:03 pm |
rliberni: |
@englishraven I agree - but I think it's worth making the point that class translation a prof translation are diff #eltchat |
| 1:04 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @sandymillin: @SueAnnan written homework #ELTCHAT (Google translate = issue for me)<ask SS to translate back into L1 & compare 2 versions! Often surprised |
| 1:04 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Thanks to all who joined #ELTchat today and welcome to nee #ELTChatters! to my co-mods @riberni & @englishravenhuge thanks |
| 1:04 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rliberni: @englishraven I agree - but I think it's worth making the point that class translation a prof translation are diff #eltchat |
| 1:04 pm |
JoshSRound: |
Thanks 4 gr8t #eltchat again and thanks @marisa_C and @englishraven for moderating. V enjoyable discussion/ideas |
| 1:04 pm |
englishraven: |
Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:04 pm |
SueannaN: |
RT @englishraven: Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:05 pm |
sandymillin: |
Time flies when you're having fun. Thanks for great #eltchat & to mods @Marisa_C @englishraven and @rliberni |
| 1:05 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @englishraven: Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:05 pm |
BethCagnol: |
@sandymillin @SueAnnan Thanks! #ELTCHAT . It's going to take some "out-of-the-box" thinking. |
| 1:05 pm |
buthaina: |
RT @SueannaN: @englishraven I had a bit of a nightmare with Google Translate #ELTChat |
| 1:05 pm |
chucksandy: |
RT @englishraven: Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:06 pm |
englishraven: |
Always a pleasure #ELTChat and huge thanks to our mods @Marisa_C @Shaunwilden @rliberni Thx to all who made 1st chat at new time a good one! |
| 1:06 pm |
SueannaN: |
Thanks to moderators and all participants in #ELTChat |
| 1:06 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @englishraven: #ELTChat I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded> Always gd to remember the human element during tech chat |
| 1:06 pm |
JoshSRound: |
RT @JoshSRound: Thanks 4 gr8t #eltchat again AND thanks to @rliberni as well for moderating!! V enjoyable discussion/ideas :)) |
| 1:06 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Announcement for next week's #ELTchat : @barbsaka will join us as guest moderator ! We hope to talk her into staying on! :-) |
| 1:06 pm |
esolcourses: |
Thanks for another excellent #ELTChat everyone, & to @rliberni @Marisa_C @englishraven for moderating! Catch you later :-) |
| 1:07 pm |
vbenevolofranca: |
Great #ELTchat. Think we could go on with this for hours. So many different aspects to cover.Thanks @Marisa_C @englishraven for moderating! |
| 1:07 pm |
BethCagnol: |
@SueAnnan A friend told me she'll to stop all written homework & do in-class writing from now on. For marks, she has no choice. #ELTCHAT |
| 1:07 pm |
chucksandy: |
RT @Marisa_C: Announcement for next week's #ELTchat : @barbsaka will join us as guest moderator ! We hope to talk her into staying on! :-) |
| 1:07 pm |
paperheretic: |
RT @ALiCe__M: @englishraven French only zones are no better. Frustration and whispering in English all around with guilty faces #ELTchat |
| 1:07 pm |
rileymike7: |
#eltchat thanks all, off to tell the teachers to translate everything from now on ;-) |
| 1:07 pm |
Marisa_C: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat thanks all, off to tell the teachers to translate everything from now on ;-) > Te he he !!!! |
| 1:07 pm |
MartinWarters: |
#eltchat Thanks all. Enjoy the rest of your day. |
| 1:07 pm |
BethCagnol: |
RT @englishraven: Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:07 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @rileymike7: #eltchat thanks all, off to tell the teachers to translate everything from now on ;-) |
| 1:07 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @rileymike7: off to tell the teachers to translate everything from now on ;-) <must change teaching style after every #eltchat ;) |
| 1:08 pm |
JoshSRound: |
Will miss tonight's #eltchat Going to Londosa New Year Social :)) Have fun later!! |
| 1:08 pm |
paperheretic: |
RT @hoprea: Over-reliance on any tool or technique is a dangerous thing. #ELTChat |
| 1:08 pm |
stharitou: |
RT @Marisa_C: RT @rileymike7: #eltchat thanks all, off to tell the teachers to translate everything from now on ;-) > Te he he !!!! |
| 1:08 pm |
Marisa_C: |
Transcript for this #ELTchat will be up soon - stay put all and @shaunwilden our man for today's summary! |
| 1:08 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @Marisa_C: Transcript for this #ELTchat will be up soon - stay put all and @shaunwilden our man for today's summary! |
| 1:08 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Marisa_C: Transcript for this #ELTchat will be up soon - stay put all and @shaunwilden our man for today's summary! |
| 1:09 pm |
SueannaN: |
@bethcagnol Yes. My husband tried to translate sailing results from French to E. It was gobbledeguck. #ELTCHAT |
| 1:09 pm |
nickkiley: |
#ELTChat Good to have a meeting of minds. Thanks all (Mike, I hope you'll tell them in Italian...) |
| 1:10 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Shaunwilden Can we also share your summary on eltchat.com ? I think everyone would love that! #ELTChat |
| 1:12 pm |
cybraryman1: |
WedChat:#ClavEd #ELTchat #ntchat #ptchat #ecosys#PHDchat#edmusichat#SGAchat #web20chat#DistEd#smchat#yalitchat#FYCchat:http://bit.ly/9bCqR |
| 1:14 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat the calculation is based on experience and observation: ex: a 60min class having an 12min exercise on vocab +tranlastion |
| 1:14 pm |
Marisa_C: |
http://bit.ly/hBzVsm Tweetchat.com is great for #ELTchat if you don't have tweetdeck with easy RT's |
| 1:14 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @cybraryman1: WedChat:#ClavEd #ELTchat #ntchat #ptchat #ecosys#PHDchat#edmusichat#SGAchat#web20chat #DistEd#smchat#yalitchat#FYCchat:http://bit.ly/9bCqR |
| 1:15 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@yearinthelifeof Great! We'll be doing it every week from now on! #ELTchat |
| 1:15 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation's purpose in the lang classroom is to lead to single language use. |
| 1:16 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Moacir2 well.... this is very subjective with all due respect #eltchat |
| 1:18 pm |
nickkiley: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cook's wonderful talk on translation is now online http://bit.ly/dXYNFq Was this mentioned in #ELTChat |
| 1:18 pm |
englishraven: |
RT @nickkiley: RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cook's wonderful talk on translation is now online http://bit.ly/dXYNFqWas this mentioned in #ELTChat |
| 1:19 pm |
sandymillin: |
RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cook's wonderful talk: translation from #DOSconference is now onlinehttp://bit.ly/dXYNFq <off 2 watch it now! #eltchat |
| 1:19 pm |
Harmerj: |
@Marisa_C sorry I had to/have to bow out. Have to go. A good conversation. #ELTchat |
| 1:19 pm |
Moacir2: |
#eltchat translation can be scattered during class time in order not to disrupt other Ss.in monolingual cls it can be gr8 group or hwk. |
| 1:20 pm |
rliberni: |
RT @sandymillin: RT @Shaunwilden: Guy cook's wonderful talk: translation from #DOSconference is now online http://bit.ly/dXYNFq <off 2 watch it now! #eltchat |
| 1:20 pm |
englishraven: |
@Harmerj Thanks for joining us (however briefly) for #ELTChat Nice to have you pop in! |
| 1:20 pm |
argyre: |
RT @englishraven: Not a usual thing for #ELTChat perhaps, but I'd like to dedicate our 'thoughts' to all the flooded out ELTers and ELLs in Brisbane and Qld |
| 1:20 pm |
Gusbarcellos: |
Just logged in. Interesting discussion on translation in ELT. I was never against moderate L1 use in class. #ELTchat |
| 1:21 pm |
englishraven: |
@okamisensei But is that just/purely because of translation? I'd call it poor translation... + other factors of course #ELTChat |
| 1:23 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Gusbarcellos hope u can join next time - transcript will be up soon #ELTchat |
| 1:23 pm |
yearinthelifeof: |
@englishraven @Harmerj Thanks too for joining us (however briefly) for #ELTChat Wouldn't get the chance to chat in the real world! |
| 1:24 pm |
englishraven: |
I think our new #ELTChat first session time has been a success. Good sign for future chats, with more ELTers from more places. Happy! :-) |
| 1:24 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@riberni will be uploading transcript soon - must say ciao for now and see you all later! #ELTchat |
| 1:24 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@englishraven Very happy! Very rich conversation and thanks to all who joined #ELTChat |
| 1:25 pm |
Marisa_C: |
@Harmerj No worries - we loved having you even for a little while - next time perhaps #ELTchat |
| 1:27 pm |
nickkiley: |
@englishraven @Marisa_C It's a great use of Twitter to connect people - gr8 yr thinking of start times. Thx all involved. #ELTChat |
| 1:28 pm |
EclipsingX: |
Thanks for the conversation today:) I really enjoyed it and the new time is great #ELTChat |
| 1:32 pm |
EclipsingX: |
Thanks for the RTs @Shaunwilden @ayearinthelifeof @esolcourses @Marisa_C #ELTChat |
| 1:33 pm |
rliberni: |
@EclipsingX thanks for coming - it was a good session glad the time has helped ppl to join in #eltchat |
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