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Learning Grammar or Teaching Grammar

Page history last edited by sue annan 6 years, 6 months ago
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OUPELTGlobal 2017-11-29T10:57:27 When there are so many different ways to teach grammar, how do you choose the right one? Charlotte Rance (@RanceELT… https://t.co/Tylg4EPLLY
angelos_bollas 2017-11-29T11:30:32 It's tonight! #ELTchat Learning Grammar VS Teaching Grammarat 19.00 (UK time) https://t.co/X130pezqW5
MConca16 2017-11-29T18:44:01 Secretly pleased that my eve class was cancelled so I can join #ELTchat https://t.co/N2DuKNxXlp
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T18:55:48 @MConca16 That sounds almost like an #ELTconfession ! #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T18:55:53 @MConca16 Great news- and welcome Maria #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T18:57:55 Hi Marisa MOu #ELTchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T18:59:14 @Marisa_C #ELTchat It is indeed  Hate teaching Wed nites!
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T18:59:18 @SueAnnan  Sue!  #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:00:15 Who's coming to join #ELTchat tonight? Learning and or Teaching grammar
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:00:41 @Marisa_C lets go #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:01:12 Our topic tonight! #ELTchat How do you deal with grammar as a teacher or a learner? https://t.co/Pm2Vt1fsVL
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:02:04 I like to let students work it out for themselves if they can #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:02:25 #ELTchat I want to begin by saying that, as a learner, I was crammed full of grammar taught GT style most of which… https://t.co/mDlDzu82Nq
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:02:57 I think reading is the most natural way of learning chunks #ELTchat
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:03:11 Good evening #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:03:57 #ELTchat ...cont.. and masses of listening, mostly to records to get the words down for my brother's band! :-)
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:04:36 @Marisa_C #ELTChat Typical.I was lucky to learn naturally as a child and refused to study grammar at school.Never b… https://t.co/X4iaaHg5dX
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:04:42 @naomishema Hi Naomi- good to have you with us #ELTChat
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:05:02 Isn't listening as important? I can C with my Deaf students how many of them tdon't get chunks #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:05:10 #ELTchat  My only experience of being taught with newer methods is as a beginner of Turkish
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:05:54 @MConca16 Didn't know what I was being taught anyway :-) #ELTChat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:06:01 I didn't learn any grammar at school, but I turned out just fine :-) #ELTchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:06:33 @Marisa_C #ELTChat oh yeah loved music and translated lyrics to friends and family Contrastive Grammar?
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:06:51 #ELTchat But as an adult beginner of Turkish I positively CRAVED a quick and dirty syntax lesson or four to figure… https://t.co/mCX8OJxISO
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:07:18 But it is amazing how many students feel that if they are doing tons of grammar pages then it is a serious course. #ELTChat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:07:29 I offer help if required, but try to avoid grammar Mcnuggets #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:07:34 @SueAnnan Sure but we 're talking FL acquisition now not L1 - same for me in Greek #ELTChat
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:07:52 @SueAnnan #ELTchat Reading is great for people who like reading (people like us) but for many it's a chore.
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:08:34 Hugely important I think #eltchat but again I was acquiring without grammar https://t.co/fbZLZSs3GT
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:08:56 #ELTChat Grammar is students' and (at times) teachers' & coursebook writers' obsession https://t.co/1x2gZ7Ow4c
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:09:06 @GlenysHanson true. Perhaps listening to pop music might suit others. I often have adult students who quote the odd… https://t.co/K72kDJOVD6
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:10:05 @SueAnnan The McNugget word is in my presentation at IATEFL in Brighton - got accepted!!! #eltchat
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:10:49 What do you mean my McNuggets? Short rules that aren't useful enough? #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:10:54 It's going to be a photonovella between Ms Holistic and Ms McNugget #ELTChat
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:10:55 @Marisa_C At school I studied French, Welsh and Latin with masses of reciting grammar rules. Didn't learn to speak any of them. #ELTChat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:11:12 @Marisa_C Well done you #ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:11:15 @GlenysHanson @SueAnnan #ELTChat both listening & reading for pleasure develop language awareness at different rates
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:11:44 @GlenysHanson @Marisa_C But could you learn to WRITE  any of those langauges? #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:11:46 Me too - tons of hours wasted on classical Greek and Latin yikes - hours and hours every week #eltchat https://t.co/FiOqDm59zW
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:11:55 @naomishema Yes. Little bites of something disconnected to anything useful #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:13:23 @naomishema @GlenysHanson I could yes - I was very proficient in text analysis of Ancient Greek and was able to tra… https://t.co/KQRD9l9RRF
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:13:51 @naomishema @GlenysHanson I can still read and understand it #eltchat
ShellTerrell 2017-11-29T19:14:00 Show Students These Christmas Around the World Videos https://t.co/IDCk0q9nZY #Christmas #eltchat #ellchat #teflchat #edchat #globaled
SimpleK12 2017-11-29T19:14:19 rt ShellTerrell: Show Students These Christmas Around the World Videos https://t.co/MhUhfdsC9l #Christmas #eltchat… https://t.co/inW38co5ks
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:14:29 @ShellTerrell Hi Honey. We are in the middle of #ELTchat at the moment
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:15:04 @Marisa_C I've craved grammar rules too when I've been taught with newer approaches. But I've resisted as I resist… https://t.co/YQs9Vkd0Jj
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:15:53 I got really confused with grammar rules when learning Portuguese from a very rigid teacher #ELTChat
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:16:20 So who will define Grammar McNuggets for me? I'm not in the loop,,, #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:16:27 @GlenysHanson #eltchat I actually have no evidence or proof of that good or otherwise. I never went beyond beginner… https://t.co/zHc3X4HVaR
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:16:31 @SueAnnan @naomishema #ELTChat Grammar mcNuggets are great for kids & low levels #Overload does not lead to mastery or learning
khanshahana30 2017-11-29T19:16:59 Is it started #ELTChat
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:18:06 @MConca16 @SueAnnan But what do you mean by this term? What are they? #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:19:17 #ELTChat https://t.co/nRS34E0CWm
bethcagnol 2017-11-29T19:19:22 @SueAnnan I had a grammar-obsessed French teacher in the beginning and it really turned me off. It made me think I… https://t.co/wvC5s2MizR
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:19:47 @SueAnnan My teacher was very knowledgeable and did in fact use non explicit grammar teaching - it was ME who asked for it #ELTChat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:20:21 @bethcagnol Yes. It sucks the will to live after a bit #ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:20:41 @naomishema @SueAnnan #ELTchat @Marisa_C will surely explain.The way I understand it is teaching chunks of grammar… https://t.co/zE09R6AsRV
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:20:59 @naomishema #ELTChat https://t.co/NTXzI3Cq98
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:21:29 @Marisa_C I don't think it's possible to have "proof" that one approach is better than another. But the modern appr… https://t.co/yvZryeMQPq
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:21:38 @bethcagnol @SueAnnan Yikes!!! Hey Bethany - great to see you! #eltchat Mine was lovely - we had a short stint with… https://t.co/2WTjoBkgRw
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:22:07 @MConca16 @SueAnnan @Marisa_C Thank you! #ELTChat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:22:19 I must prefer functional lessons, where the sts can use the language outside the classroom #ELTchat
ELTResearch 2017-11-29T19:22:24 @Marisa_C @GlenysHanson #ELTchat Some rules are quite helpful when you have time to think before you produce the la… https://t.co/vuuNpwLOeF
bethcagnol 2017-11-29T19:23:06 @Marisa_C @SueAnnan Lucky you!! And great to be back. Currently sitting in the kitchen making a pregnancy craving:… https://t.co/Jtn4WYrcmQ
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:23:08 @GlenysHanson @Marisa_C That's what I try to provide for my students. The chance to work it out #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:23:23 @GlenysHanson And proof not in fact needed - different learners need different things - I believe we need to be fle… https://t.co/wCGbuisjOW
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:24:01 I believe learning styles come into play. Some students feel insecure without rules, others r happy 2 go with "learnign by doing" #ELTChat
khanshahana30 2017-11-29T19:24:26 #ELTChat So how much grammar and criteria a T can use when deciding to teach St.
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:24:28 @ELTResearch @GlenysHanson Very true - and some are not worth the time spent discovering them! #ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:24:53 @SueAnnan #ELTChat agreed.That's what grammar is for.Use it to communicate
bethcagnol 2017-11-29T19:26:04 Have any of you found it particularly challenging to approach grammar with sts who aren't even familiar with the co… https://t.co/LiajILazzq
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:26:07 Both explicit and implicit teaching have in fact been found to work - so I don't agree with any dogmatic views either direction #ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:26:12 @Marisa_C @GlenysHanson #ELTChat I tend to use at least three different ways to teach Grammar depending on age,level,needs
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:27:03 @SueAnnan @Marisa_C Me too - but it's not always easy for the T to realise they have to do to help Ss to do the wor… https://t.co/eLnUOWedm5
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:27:16 It really is a case of horses for courses. Many of my Cert trainees have more difficulty than my students :-( #ELTchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:27:28 @naomishema #ELTChat Adults tend to be analytical.Teachers might have to cater for those learners somehow
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:27:57 @bethcagnol YES!! With deaf students I work a lot on N. V. Adj because it is the base for so much, even using the dictionary! #eltchat
bethcagnol 2017-11-29T19:29:38 @naomishema That's interesting! I had my first deaf student this year. Any tips with this subject would be helpful. #eltchat
ELTResearch 2017-11-29T19:30:25 @Marisa_C @GlenysHanson Agreed- some language is poorly described at time eg convenient but incorrect 'rules' for s… https://t.co/UE2nLez5rK
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:31:09 @SueAnnan Goodness yes #ELTChat explicitly teaching grammar rule is hard for teachers NEsT & NNEst alike.Reason why… https://t.co/TLoUzlcwTM
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:31:29 What kind of grammar do you get asked for the most? #ELTchat for me the sts, especially the Germans, want to know how the tenses work.
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:32:57 @ELTResearch @Marisa_C The rules are particularly helpful if you've worked them out for yourself. In my Arabic cour… https://t.co/ZHq1I9svBc
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:33:14 @GlenysHanson @Marisa_C I think rules can help, when the student is ready. In Spanish I'd been choosing my verb end… https://t.co/AaOXl6PYw0
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:34:27 Some students want language to be like math - give me the formulas and I'll be safe... #ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:34:44 @bethcagnol @naomishema #ELTChat I have a deaf student too at uni level She reads my lips Tend to provide written h… https://t.co/rHmZtcsicb
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:35:00 @naomishema Unfortunately, English doesn't fit nicely into boxes #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:35:56 #ELTchat  May I crowdsource a bit for my talk then - which is on the same subject. Do you follow an exclusive appro… https://t.co/JrBEV1irkT
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:37:05 For Q about Deaf sudents C  my Q/A blog. If you have a Q feel free to ask and I'll answer on the blog https://t.co/khtVo6M0cC#ELTchat
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:37:07 @Marisa_C Also different researchers mean different things by "explicit" and "implicit". #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:37:47 @SueAnnan @naomishema Which language does actually ? #eltchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:38:21 @SueAnnan @naomishema #ELTChat very true.Showing when & how we use forms in context is more effective
naomishema 2017-11-29T19:39:21 @Marisa_C @SueAnnan Hebrew is more rule based, less irregular options. And way more phonetic... #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:40:08 @Marisa_C @naomishema They do say English is 84% rules, but the exceptions can be a nightmare if your language is more logical #ELtchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:40:11 @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson @Marisa_C #ELTChat Recognizing patterns is nearly at the end of the acquisition process - I agree
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:42:00 @MConca16 @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson I am not sure that this conscious knowledge is necessary to be honest  - may… https://t.co/5zQMC0ub5q
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:42:53 @Marisa_C @MConca16 @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson Yes. More useful to be able to use the language than to analyse it in many cases, #ELTChat
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:42:56 @SueAnnan @naomishema Actually I did quite a lot of getting students to sort elements into boxes- boxes drawn on the board.  #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:43:49 I passed my CPE Cambridge old style with an A at the age of 18 - I don't think I knew the rules all that well - I H… https://t.co/IUgJ5bLiZa
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:44:57 MY French CPE student said that he used his 'gut' when choosing answers. #ELTChat It seemed to work
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:45:15 @Marisa_C @MConca16 @GlenysHanson Mirroring L1 acquisition. My gut feeling, though, is that this takes a lot of tim… https://t.co/kmaBwjxIrm
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:45:34 @SueAnnan I believe him so did i ! #eltchat was clueless as to rules
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:46:30 @Marisa_C But, like him, I'm sure you had good communication fluency #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:46:46 @MoreMsJackson @MConca16 @GlenysHanson Absolutely! I think I was an 'immersed' learner already - most of our learne… https://t.co/J6ZJNTLZoD
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:47:23 @SueAnnan Again, like L1. It takes time and exposure to develop this though. Is there anything we can do as teacher… https://t.co/GYJSweTt9R
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:47:54 @SueAnnan I did - I do also have a good musical ear and I think that was helpful as well #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:48:24 @MoreMsJackson LOts of language. Speaking, reading, listening to things you like#ELTChat
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:49:19 @MoreMsJackson @SueAnnan #ELTChat maybe maximizing exposure as you say and provide opportunities to use the grammar… https://t.co/mGUjGbP8mP
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:49:24 You don't get good at anything unless you get involved in doing things with it - right? #ELTchat
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:50:51 @SueAnnan Sounds great but something many of the adult students I've taught will never bother to do... #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:51:34 I was thinking about this 'narrow reading and listening' hypothesis the @skrashen promotes - am thinking that even… https://t.co/dNae0QYvd8
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:51:41 @MoreMsJackson @SueAnnan I'd say making everything Ss say "real" in the sense that  they are expressing what they f… https://t.co/zUdV3pFFpK
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T19:54:26 @MoreMsJackson @SueAnnan Very late in my career I relaised that I had to force Ss to do the nec extensive reading a… https://t.co/Pdqzd5AQtX
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:55:04 @MoreMsJackson Yes. Im in the lucky position of being in a NS country. My students are surrounded by reasons to use English #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:55:13 @MoreMsJackson @MConca16 @GlenysHanson Some staunch anti grammar ppl would say no - but the massive input when acqu… https://t.co/EUCJN33sCg
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:56:56 @GlenysHanson @MoreMsJackson @SueAnnan Which raises a different topic related to autonomy and how forced it may hav… https://t.co/Wc53jK39IK
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:57:10 @GlenysHanson @SueAnnan I'm realising this not-so-late in my career. :) Hopefully, if it can be shown to be enjoyab… https://t.co/FesbafaBdZ
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T19:58:02 @Marisa_C @GlenysHanson @SueAnnan Or call it "prolonged learner training" #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T19:58:07 Me too #eltchat was lucky to see that sooner rather than later https://t.co/WSCCntBc8I
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:58:38 @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson We have so many chances these days- Youtube, Ted talks etc. Watch/Listen then discuss.… https://t.co/hkK7C8yF0t
MConca16 2017-11-29T19:58:45 @Marisa_C @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson #ELTchat many would also suggest immersion in the L2 country but not always… https://t.co/Zi99nkufNb
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T19:59:25 Would someone like to write the summary of this #ELTchat, please?
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:00:17 @MConca16 @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson true not always possible - MOSTLy not possible #eltchat but as @SueAnnan say… https://t.co/XDzCl7QT23
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T20:01:16 I was gonna ask something about a lexical approach to grammar, but the hour's already up... #ELTchat
MConca16 2017-11-29T20:01:22 @Marisa_C @MoreMsJackson @GlenysHanson @SueAnnan #ELTChat #EdTech has open up a whole new world of opportunities I agree
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:01:33 thank you to those who responded to my poll - most responses indicated use of a combination of approaches #eltchat - Thanks!
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T20:02:17 Keep chatting as we move into slow burn mode for 24 hours- If anyone feels the urge to write the summary, I would be grateful #ELTChat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:02:30 @MoreMsJackson You can still ask the question - the #slowburn part of #eltchat continues
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:03:16 Any takers for the summary please/ #eltchat we will give you a badge for your blog too! https://t.co/hBfXCymsuj
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T20:04:14 what a good #eltchat and thanks to all who participated. Same time next week? #ELTchat
GlenysHanson 2017-11-29T20:04:27 Bye folks until next week. #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:04:28 @naomishema I know! Then they forget all those dozens of sentences and the language that was in them as well! #ELTchat
SueAnnan 2017-11-29T20:05:13 NIght all #ELTchat Speak soon Marisa Mou
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:05:30 @bethcagnol With young learners and adult Sts with low literacy #ELTchat
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T20:06:22 @Marisa_C Great, gives me time to find the article I was reading so I can ask a better question #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:07:05 @naomishema Bite sized rules of grammar - chopped up very small :-) #eltchat
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T20:16:49 #ELTchat late question. Lexical approach to grammar - learning commonly-occurring chunks for each structure, common… https://t.co/nRUSkxU03I
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:17:09 Cheers everyone - #ELTchat on learning grammar vs teaching grammar continues in #slowburn more - so keep adding you… https://t.co/r2m8gw9gXt
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:18:15 @MoreMsJackson Might - but too many phrases to use this approach exclusively, methinks. My own two cents. #eltchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-29T20:18:52 @MoreMsJackson What's the article? Pls share #ELTChat
MoreMsJackson 2017-11-29T20:21:57 @Marisa_C I like the example in this one. Has me thinking about grammaticalised lexis.  https://t.co/vnF7u26i5G #ELTchat
Marisa_C 2017-11-30T09:24:14 @B_T_Mc I think articles on memory and value of revision after so many hours so many days would help - have sth wil… https://t.co/XLEhlYcjSA
MConca16 2017-11-30T13:42:41 #ELTchat reading leads to better vocabularies.I believe it also makes our. Grammaries better @GlenysHanson… https://t.co/iuoTKmA6ab


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